David Mundell
Main Page: David Mundell (Conservative - Dumfriesshire, Clydesdale and Tweeddale)Department Debates - View all David Mundell's debates with the Scotland Office
(8 years, 12 months ago)
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The Secretary of State for Scotland (David Mundell)
I beg to move, That the clause be read a Second time.
Madam Deputy Speaker (Mrs Eleanor Laing)
With this it will be convenient to discuss the following:
Government new clause 13—Functions exercisable within devolved competence: elections.
New clause 1—Independent Commission on Full Fiscal Autonomy—
‘(1) The Secretary of State shall appoint a commission of between four and eleven members to conduct an analysis of the impact of Full Fiscal Autonomy on the Scottish economy, labour market and public finances and to report by 31 March 2016.
(2) No member of the House of Commons, the House of Lords, or the Scottish Parliament may be a member of the commission.
(3) No employee of the Scottish Government or of any government Department or agency anywhere in the United Kingdom may be a member of the commission.
(4) The Secretary of State shall, in consultation and with the agreement of Scottish Ministers, appoint as members of the commission only persons who appear to the Secretary of State to hold a relevant qualification or to have relevant experience.
(5) The Secretary of State shall not appoint as a member of the commission any person who is a member of a political party.
(6) Before appointing any member of the commission, the Secretary of State must consult—
(a) The Chair of any select committee appointed by the House of Commons to consider Scottish Affairs, and
(b) The Chair of any select committee appointed by the House of Commons to examine the expenditure, administration and policy of Her Majesty’s Treasury and its associated public bodies.
(7) The Secretary of State may by regulations issue the commission with terms of reference and guidelines for the commission’s working methods, including an outline definition of the policy of full fiscal autonomy for the commission to analyse.
(8) The Secretary of State must lay copies of the report of the commission before both Houses of Parliament, and must transmit a copy of the report of the commission to the Presiding Officer of the Scottish Parliament.
(9) Regulations under this section must be made by statutory instrument, subject to annulment in pursuance of a resolution of either House of Parliament.”
The new Clause provides for the establishment of an independent commission to investigate the impact of FFA.
New clause 4—Review of operation of Gift Aid in Scotland—
The Treasury must lay before the House of Commons a review of the operation of Gift Aid in Scotland within a year of Part 2 of this Act coming into force.”
This self-explanatory New Clause would require a review of the operation of Gift Aid in Scotland.
New clause 6—Local Discretionary Taxation—
Individual local authorities in Scotland shall have the discretion to raise additional income by levying a tax, in addition to Council Tax and Non-Domestic Rates, on either residents, occupiers, property owners or visitors in the local authority or within a discrete area of the local authority providing local people consent.”
The power will enable local authorities to introduce tax(es) without the need to seek approval from Scottish Government, with the rates and reliefs being determined locally and the local authority being both granted powers to ensure that those on which the tax is levied have a legal obligation to pay and the local authority having the discretion to determine how the additional revenue is expended.
New clause 7—Local authority’s power of general competence—
‘(1) A local authority has power to do anything that individuals generally may do.
(2) Subsection (1) applies to things that an individual may do even though they are in nature, extent or otherwise—
(a) unlike anything the authority may do apart from subsection (1), or
(b) unlike anything that other public bodies may do.
(3) In this section “individual” means an individual with full capacity.
(4) Where subsection (1) confers power on the authority to do something, it confers power to do it in any way whatever, including—
(a) power to do it anywhere in the United Kingdom or elsewhere,
(b) power to do it for a commercial purpose or otherwise for a charge, or without charge, and
(c) power to do it for, or otherwise than for, the benefit of the authority, its area or persons resident or present in its area.
(5) The generality of the power conferred by subsection (1) (“the general power”) is not limited by the existence of any other power of the authority which (to any extent) overlaps the general power.
(6) Any such other power is not limited by the existence of the general power.”
This new Clause seeks to introduce a general power of competence for Scottish local authorities, putting it beyond doubt that they may do anything that is not expressly prohibited by law. It seeks to go further than the power of wellbeing already afforded to Scottish local authorities. The proposals seek to give councils the capacity to do anything that an individual can do. Therefore, this would not enable a local authority to introduce a tax or wage war, but it would ensure that local government has the ability to use the power of general competence in the most sensible and constructive way for the benefit of the people and communities whom they serve.
New clause 8—Competences of local government in Scotland—
‘(1) The First Minister must, after consultation with representatives from local government in Scotland, publish a list of competences of local government in Scotland.
(2) After the list has been published, the First Minister may not publish any amended list of competences of local government in Scotland without first obtaining approval of the revised list consent from—
(a) the Scottish Parliament, with two-thirds of its membership voting in favour of the amended list, and
(b) the Convention of Scottish Local Authorities.”
This new clause entrenches the independence of local government in Scotland from interference by national government in Scotland.
New clause 9—Subsidiarity—
That subsidiarity as defined by the Maastricht Treaty 1992 Article 5(3) shall apply to the functions of national and local government in Scotland.”
This extends protection of Scottish Local Government’s independence by protecting its subsidiarity behind a European Treaty applicable to the United Kingdom.
New clause 11—Scottish block grant—
The Secretary of State must lay before the House of Commons before the end of the first month of each financial year a full record, including minutes of meetings and correspondence at Ministerial level, of discussions between the Secretary of State, the Treasury and Scottish Ministers relating to the non-budget expenditure to be voted by Parliament authorising the payment of grants to the Scottish Consolidated Fund for that financial year.”
The purpose of this new clause is to ensure transparency and accountability of the process leading to the annual settlement between the Treasury and Scottish Ministers of the block grant to the Scottish Consolidated Fund.
New clause 35—Consent of the Scottish Parliament to certain Westminster Acts—
‘(1) In section 28 of the Scotland Act 1998 (Acts of the Scottish Parliament), at the end add—
“(8) But the Parliament of the United Kingdom must not pass Acts applying to Scotland that make provision about a devolved matter without the consent of the Scottish Parliament.
(9) A provision is about a devolved matter if the provision—
(a) applies to Scotland and does not relate to reserved matters,
(b) modifies the legislative competence of the Scottish Parliament, or
(c) modifies the functions of any member of the Scottish Government.
(10) In subsection (8), “Acts” includes any Act, whether a public general Act, a local and personal Act or a private Act.”
(2) After section 28 of the Scotland Act 1998 insert—
“28A Duty to consult the Scottish Government on Bills applying to Scotland
(1) A Minister of the Crown shall consult Scottish Ministers before introducing any Bill into the Parliament of the United Kingdom for an Act of that Parliament that would make provision applying to Scotland.
(2) Where the Bill is for an Act making provision that would require the consent of the Scottish Parliament by virtue of section 28(8), the requirement to consult under subsection (1) includes a requirement that a Minister of the Crown give the Scottish Ministers a copy of the provisions of the Bill that apply to Scotland no later than—
(a) 21 days before the proposed date of introduction, or
(b) such later date as the Scottish Ministers may agree.”
(3) The requirement in subsection (2) does not apply if—
(a) the Scottish Ministers so agree, or
(b) there are exceptional circumstances justifying failure to comply with the requirement.
(4) The reference in subsection (1) to an Act of Parliament is a reference to any Act whether a public general Act, a local and personal Act or a private Act.”
This new clause would ensure that the UK Parliament can only legislate in devolved areas with the consent of the Scottish Parliament. It puts the Sewel Convention onto a statutory footing, as agreed by the Smith Commission.
New clause 36—Scottish independence referendum
‘(1) Paragraph 5A in Part 1 of Schedule 5 to the Scotland Act 1998 (general reservations) is amended as follows.
(2) In sub-paragraph (1), leave out “if the following requirements are met”.
(3) Leave out sub-paragraphs (2) to (4).”
This New Cause would permit the Scottish Parliament to decide whether and when to hold a referendum on Scottish independence.
Government amendment 34.
This amendment leaves out Clause 1, which is replaced by New Clause 12.
Amendment 195, page 1, clause 1, leave out lines 7 and 8 and insert—
‘(1A) The Scottish Parliament is a permanent part of the United Kingdom’s constitution.
(1B) Subsection (1) or (1A) may be repealed only if—
(a) the Scottish Parliament has consented to the proposed repeal, and
(b) a referendum has been held in Scotland on the proposed repeal and a majority of those voting at the referendum have consented to it.”
This amendment is to ensure that the Scottish Parliament can only be abolished with the consent of the Scottish Parliament and the Scottish people after a referendum.
Amendment 5, page 1, line 7, leave out “recognised as”.
Amendment 196, page 1, leave out lines 12 and 13 and insert—
‘(1A) The Scottish Government is a permanent part of the United Kingdom’s constitution.
(1B) Subsection (1) or (1A) may be repealed only if—
(a) the Scottish Parliament has consented to the proposed repeal, and
(b) a referendum has been held in Scotland on the proposed repeal and a majority of those voting at the referendum have consented to it.”
This amendment is to ensure that the Scottish Parliament can only be abolished with the consent of the Scottish Parliament and the Scottish people after a referendum.
Amendment 6, page 1, line 12, leave out “recognised as”.
Amendment 197, page 2, line 1, leave out clause 2
This amendment signals intent to oppose ‘Clause stand part’ with respect to Clause 2 and to move New Clause (Consent of the Scottish Parliament to certain Westminster Acts) to take its place.
Amendment 7, page 2, line 6, clause 2, leave out “normally”.
Amendment 8, page 2, line 6, after “legislate”, insert “(a)”.
Amendment 9, page 2, line 6, after “matters”, insert “and
(b) to alter the legislative competence of the Scottish Parliament or the executive competence of the Scottish Government”
Amendment 198, page 2, line 7, clause 3, leave out “Section B3 of”.
Government amendments 35 to 46.
Amendment 199, page 11, line 18, clause 10, leave out “the decision whether to pass or reject it” and insert “the motion that the Bill be passed is debated”.
Amendments 199 to 203 to Clause 10 aim to clarify matters around references to the Supreme Court, in particular where the Scottish Parliament resolve to reconsider the Bill.
Government amendment 47.
Amendment 10, page 11, line 28, at end insert—
“() the period between general elections specified in section 2(2)”
Government amendment 48.
Amendment 200, page 11, line 38, after “unless”, insert “it is passed without division, or”.
Government amendments 49 to 53.
Amendment 201, page 12, line 16, at end insert—
‘(2A) He shall not make a reference by virtue of paragraph (a) of subsection (2) if the Parliament resolves that it wishes to reconsider the Bill.
(2B) He shall not make a reference by virtue of paragraph (b) of subsection (2) if—
(a) the Bill was passed without a division, or
(b) the Bill was passed on a division and the number of members voting in favour of it was at least two thirds of the total number of seats for members of the Parliament.”
This amendment establishes that a Bill passed by consensus in the Scottish Parliament (i.e. without a division) automatically meets the super-majority requirement and ensures that a Presiding Officer’s statement is not required if the super-majority requirements are not triggered.
Government amendments 54 to 57.
Amendment 202, page 12, line 23, at end insert—
‘(3A) Subsection (3B) applies where—
(a) a reference has been made in relation to a Bill under this section, and
(b) the reference has not been decided or otherwise disposed of.
(3B) If the Parliament resolves that it wishes to reconsider the Bill—
(a) the Presiding Officer shall notify the Advocate General, the Lord Advocate and the Attorney General of that fact, and
(b) the person who made the reference in relation to the Bill shall request the withdrawal of the reference.”
Amendment 203, page 12, line 25, leave out subsections (11) and (12) and insert—
‘(10A) In subsection (4) after paragraph (a) insert—
(aa) where section 32A(2)(b) applies—
(i) the Supreme Court decides that the Bill or any provision of the Bill relates to a protected subject matter, or
(ii) a reference has been made in relation to the Bill under section 32A and the Parliament subsequently resolves that it wishes to reconsider the Bill.”
(10B) After that subsection insert—
“(4A) Standing orders shall provide for an opportunity for the reconsideration of a Bill after its rejection if (and only if), where section 32A(2)(a) applies—
(a) the Supreme Court decides that the Bill or any provision of the Bill does not relate to a protected subject matter, or
(b) the Parliament resolves that it wishes to reconsider the Bill””.
Government amendments 58 to 60.
Amendment 204, page 13, line 2, clause 11, at end insert—
‘(1A) In paragraph 1 of Part I (The protected provisions, Particular enactments) of Schedule 4 (protection of Scotland Act 1988 from modification), delete “(2)(f) the Human Rights Act 1998””.
This amendment would remove the Human Rights Act 1998 from the list of protected provisions in Schedule 4 of the Scotland Act 1998.
Government amendment 61.
Amendment 205, page 13, line 8, paragraph (a)(ii), leave out “(3)” and insert “(2B)”.
Amendments 205 to 223 to Clause 11 would grant the Scottish Parliament powers to make decisions about all matters relating to the arrangements and operations of the Scottish Parliament and Scottish Government as agreed in the Smith Commission.
Amendment 206, page 13, line 9, paragraph (a)(iii), leave out “11” and insert “12”.
Amendment 207, page 13, line 10, paragraph (a)(iv), leave out “section” to the end and insert “sections 13 to 27,”.
Amendment 208, page 13, line 11, paragraph (a)(v), leave out from “(v)” to the end and insert “section 28(1) to (6),”.
Amendment 209, page 13, line 13, paragraph (a)(vii), leave out “27(1) and (2)” and insert “31”.
Amendment 210, page 13, line 14, paragraph (a)(viii), leave out “28(5)” and insert “32(1) to (3),”.
Government amendments 62 and 63.
Amendment 211, page 13, line 15, paragraph (a)(ix), leave out “(1)(a) and (b) and (2) and (3)”.
Government amendment 64.
Amendment 212, page 13, line 19, paragraph (b)(i), leave out “44(1B)(a) and (b), and (2)” and insert “44(1C), (2) and (4),”.
Government amendment 65.
Amendment 213, page 13, line 20, paragraph (b)(ii), leave out “(3) to (7)” and insert “to 50”.
Amendment 214, page 13, line 21, paragraph (b)(iii), leave out “46(1) to (3)” and insert “51(1), (2) and (4)”.
Government amendment 66.
Amendment 215, page 13, line 22, paragraph (b)(iv), leave out “47(3)(b) to (e)” and insert “52”.
Amendment 216, page 13, line 23, paragraph (b)(v), leave out “48(2) to (4)” and insert “59”.
Amendment 217, page 13, line 24, paragraph (b)(vi), leave out “49(2) and (4)(b) to (e)” and insert “61”.
Government amendment 67.
Amendment 218, page 13, line 25, leave out paragraph (b)(vii).
Government amendment 68.
Amendment 219, page 13, line 26, paragraph (c), leave out “(3)”.
Amendment 220, page 13, line 27, paragraph (d), leave out from “general” to the end of the paragraph, and insert “sections 81 to 85,) sections 91 to 95, and section 97,”.
Government amendment 69.
Amendment 221, page 13, line 29, paragraph (e), leave out from “supplementary” to end of line 38, and insert—
(i) sections 112, 113 and 115, and Schedule 7 (insofar as those sections and that Schedule apply to any power in this Act of the Scottish Ministers to make subordinate legislation),
(ii) sections 118, 120 and 121,
(iii) section 124 (insofar as that section applies to any power in this Act of the Scottish Ministers to make subordinate legislation),
(iv) section 126(1) and (6) to (8), and
(v) section 127,”.
Amendment 222, page 13, line 40, paragraph (g), leave out “6” and insert “7”.
Amendment 223, page 13, line 42, paragraph (h), leave out “paragraphs 1 to 6 of”.
Amendment 224, page 13, line 43, at end insert—
‘(2A) In paragraph 4 of Part I (The protected provisions, This Act) of Schedule 4 (protection of Scotland Act 1988 from modification), insert new sub-paragraph—
(5A) This paragraph does not apply to amendments to Schedule 5, Part II, Head A, Section 1A insofar as they relate to—
(a) taxes and excise in Scotland,
(b) government borrowing and lending in Scotland, and
(c) control over public expenditure in Scotland.””
This amendment would enable the Scottish Parliament to amend the Scotland Act 1998 to remove the reservation on taxation, borrowing and public expenditure in Scotland, with the effect that the Scottish Parliament could then legislate in these areas to provide for full fiscal autonomy in Scotland.
Amendment 27, page 18, line 21, clause 15, leave out “the amount described in subsection (3)” and insert ‘the whole amount’.
The purpose of this amendment is to allow a sum equivalent to all of the revenue raised by the standard rate of VAT in Scotland to be paid into the Scottish Consolidated Fund.
Amendment 28, page 18, line 26, leave out “the amount described in subsection (4)” and insert ‘the whole amount’.
The purpose of this amendment is to allow a sum equivalent to all of the revenue raised by the standard rate of VAT in Scotland to be paid into the Scottish Consolidated Fund.
Amendment 29, page 18, leave out lines 28 to 39.
The purpose of this and the linked amendments to Clause 15 is to allow a sum equivalent to all of the revenue raised by both standard and reduced rates of VAT in Scotland to be paid into the Scottish Consolidated Fund.
Amendment 30, page 18, line 33, at end insert “Provided that the amount payable is not less than half of the agreed standard rate amount.”
This amendment would ensure that the share of the revenue raised by the standard rate of VAT in Scotland to be paid into the Scottish Consolidated Fund never falls below half the of the revenue raised, even if the standard rate of VAT is cut in the future.
Amendment 31, page 18, line 39, at end insert “Provided that the amount payable is not less than half of the agreed reduced rate amount.”
This amendment would ensure that the share of the revenue raised by the reduced rate of VAT in Scotland to be paid into the Scottish Consolidated Fund never falls below half the of the revenue raised, even if the reduced rate of VAT is cut in the future.
Government amendments 81 and 130 to 132.
David Mundell
This is a significant day for Scotland, as we move the public debate about our country’s future from questions of constitutional process and on to the real business of using power to improve people’s lives.
The Government’s amendments, which I would like to outline today, will strengthen the Bill’s provisions and clarify the delivery of the Smith commission agreement. With that done, it will be time for Scotland’s political parties to work together to make the new powers a success for everyone in Scotland. My ministerial colleagues, UK Government officials and I have engaged widely with interested parties and civic Scotland to help people to understand the Bill and to listen to their views. We have discussed the clauses with the Scottish Government and Committees of both the Scottish Parliament and this Parliament, and we have reflected on constructive suggestions of how to improve the drafting of the provisions. A number of technical amendments are proposed to ensure that the Bill devolves the powers intended effectively and efficiently, as well as a range of substantive amendments which prove beyond doubt that the Bill fully delivers the Smith commission agreement. I would like to move a number of Government amendments to part 1 of the Bill. We will discuss important amendments on welfare and other parts of the Bill later today.
Building on discussions on the permanence of the Scottish Parliament in Committee, I am bringing forward new clause 12 and amendment 34. The new clause removes the words “recognised as” and makes it clear beyond question that the Scottish Parliament and the Scottish Government are permanent institutions, and that it would take a vote by the people of Scotland in a referendum to ever abolish them. The amendment puts it beyond doubt that, as the Prime Minister has said,
“Scottish devolution is woven into the very fabric of our United Kingdom.”
New clause 13 is a technical provision ensuring that, where legislative competence is being transferred to the Scottish Parliament in relation to elections, executive functions are transferred to the Scottish Ministers in relation to that area. This will minimise the need for the Scottish Parliament to make separate textual changes to legislation after commencement of the Bill. Amendments 81 and 130 to 132 are consequential amendments to new clause 13.
Amendments 35 and 61 would devolve to the Scottish Parliament the subject matter of new subsection (2B) of section 2 of the Scotland Act 1998, inserted by clause 5 of the Bill. New subsection (2B) enables Scottish Ministers to make an order specifying an alternative date for a Scottish parliamentary general election, where otherwise the date would fall on the same day as an ordinary general election or a general election to the European Parliament.
Government amendments 36 and 44 to 45 clarify what is meant by “combined elections”. Amendment 36 makes it clear that the reservation of the rules governing campaign expenditure by political parties applies where there are overlapping regulated periods, even if the actual polls take place on different days. Amendments 44 to 46 ensure consistency of language throughout the Bill by amending other provisions in clause 7 concerned with expenditure in connection with elections.
Amendment 131 inserts a reference to clause 3 and has the effect of applying schedule 3 to the Interpretation and Legislative Reform (Scotland) Act 2010 to any functions that are exercisable within devolved competence by virtue of that clause. The new wording included in amendment 37 makes it clear that the Scottish Parliament will be able to give the Electoral Commission powers as well as duties when reporting on the delivery of its functions in relation to elections to the Scottish Parliament.
Minor amendments 38 and 39 ensure that the Scottish Ministers’ powers to make provision on the conduct of Scottish parliamentary elections are in line with the legislative competence of the Scottish Parliament in this area. Amendment 40 is a minor change to align the subordinate legislation-making powers of the Scottish Ministers with the extent of the reservation of the individual electoral registration digital service, which is the Great Britain-wide service used to process online applications and to verify information supplied in applications. It is used to process applications to the registers used for all GB elections, as well as EU parliamentary elections.
Amendments 41 and 42 ensure that the power in clause 5 to specify a new date for an ordinary Scottish parliamentary election works effectively with the Presiding Officer’s existing power to propose to move the date of such a poll. Amendment 43 has the same purpose as the section of the clause it replaces—to enable the Scottish Ministers to exercise, concurrently with the Secretary of State, certain subordinate legislation-making functions relating to the digital service, which otherwise remains reserved. The effect of this is to allow Scottish Ministers to exercise functions and make regulations about the digital service.
Amendments 47 to 60 seek to clarify the rules on super-majority. A number of these are technical and consequential, but I will draw the attention of the House to the three main amendments in this group. Amendment 47 requires that the Presiding Officer must decide whether any provision of a Bill relates to a protected subject matter, rather than assessing the provisions of the Bill more generally. Amendment 50 has the effect that a Bill passed with a simple majority in respect of which the Supreme Court subsequently decides that a simple majority is sufficient must be reconsidered by the Scottish Parliament before being submitted for Royal Assent. It is important that the Scottish Parliament has the opportunity to reconsider the Bill in this scenario as circumstances may have changed since the Bill was first passed.
Amendment 60, partly consequential on a number of other amendments, means that requirements regarding the final stage for a Bill, and for approval of a Bill following reconsideration to be treated as the passing of the Bill, apply regardless of the ground for reconsideration.
Government amendments 62 to 69 deliver new powers to the Scottish Parliament in relation to the arrangements and operation of the Scottish Parliament and Scottish Government, in response to amendments made in Committee and discussions with the Scottish Government. They include powers in relation to the dating of Royal Assent, the form and nature of certain statements by the Presiding Officer, letters patent, appointments to the Scottish Government, the Auditor General for Scotland and the Queen’s Printer for Scotland. These amendments extend the far-reaching powers in the arrangements and operation of the Scottish Parliament and Scottish Government already provided for by clause 11 and address a number of amendments tabled in Committee and by the SNP today.
Ian Murray (Edinburgh South) (Lab)
The Secretary of State is cantering through the Government amendments. Can he clarify for the House whether, in the current context, they would require a legislative consent motion for the Trade Union Bill?
David Mundell
As the hon. Gentleman will know, the Trade Union Bill is still under discussion in this House, and it is the Bill as finalised by this House and the other place that will determine the nature of any legislative consent motion that is required, as is the normal practice.
The amendments I have tabled today fulfil my commitment to reflect on the debate in Committee. It is a bit rich to be criticised both for taking no amendments and, in the same breath, for tabling too many. We took the Committee process seriously and the contribution from the devolved powers committee in the Scottish Parliament very seriously, and that has determined our thinking in lodging these amendments. We will now hear the case for other, non-Government amendments, but the House will not be surprised to hear that the Government still consider that full fiscal autonomy is not in the interests of the people of Scotland. I believe that Scotland’s parties, rather than rerunning the referendum, need to work together to understand how the powers in the Bill will be used for the benefit of the people of Scotland. The UK Government are honouring their commitment in the Edinburgh agreement, accepting the result of the referendum and moving forward to give the Scottish Parliament significant new powers within our United Kingdom.
Mr Graham Allen (Nottingham North) (Lab)
It is very nice once again to be talking about Scottish—[Interruption.] I give way to the Clerk. That is the first time I have been heckled from the Clerk’s Table, but I am sure it will not be the last.
There is one thing that concerns me. Much as I welcome the devolution to Scotland that the Scottish people have achieved—owing to the hard work of people such as Donald Dewar, the Scottish constitutional convention, even the Scotland Act 2012 and now this Bill—there are those of us who represent constituencies in England who envy that and would kill for 1% of the effective devolution that has gone to Scotland. I congratulate the Scottish people on their efforts and where they have got to, but I hope we will come very soon to how England can learn some of the lessons of Scottish devolution, because it has taught many of us many lessons. I will perhaps touch on some of the devolution packages now appearing in England, which look puny and weak compared with the proper devolution that has now taken root, quite rightly, in Scotland.
My anxiety is about centralisation. It is not devolution if the powers merely go to the next stage. If they go from Whitehall to Holyrood and stay there—and, some would argue, are perhaps not used as sufficiently as they could be—
David Mundell
Since the hon. Gentleman has put that on the record so many times, I want to point out that the Conservative party polled more votes in the 2015 general election than in 2010 election. He has sought to distort those figures. Perhaps he would like to join me in congratulating the new Conservative councillor in Aberdeenshire, who topped the poll in the very constituency of the right hon. Member for Gordon (Alex Salmond).
Angus Robertson
Oh dear, oh dear! The right hon. Gentleman had the opportunity to name a single country in the industrialised democratic world where a centre-right party does worse than the Scottish Conservative party, but he could not think of one because there are none. The Scottish Tories polled 14.9%, down two points on the previous general election. To be proud of that—
Angus Robertson
For the Secretary of State for Scotland to deny the facts just goes to show how far the Conservative party, the Labour party and—[Interruption.] I was going to add the Liberal Democrats—there is not a single one in the Chamber—because they lost 10 out of 11 seats in Scotland.
The point of saying all this is to understand where the democratic mandate lies. We went to the country saying that Smith should be delivered in full and that further powers should be delivered, and the Scottish National party won an overwhelming mandate to come to this place and make our case.
Ian Blackford
The point is that the Scottish people were promised by Gordon Brown that we were going to get “powers for a purpose”—that we were going to have a powerhouse Parliament—and that is not what is being delivered tonight.
Ian Blackford
Despite what the Secretary of State says, the reality of the situation is that 70% of powers over taxation and 85% of powers over welfare will be held here at Westminster. I do not know what that is, but it is certainly not a powerhouse Parliament.
In the light of the challenges we face with the cuts to tax credits, which we will discuss in the second part of tonight’s debate, we need to make sure that the Scottish Parliament has the powers to protect the people of Scotland. We will be saying to the Labour party, “Come with us. Show that resolve,” to make sure that we can protect the people we need to protect in the country of Scotland.
David Mundell
I think that during at least part of this debate some of the amendments tabled by both the Government and Opposition Members have been addressed and I am very pleased—unless I have picked this up wrongly in the course of the debate—that no one is suggesting they would wish to oppose the Government’s amendments.
I am afraid that today’s debate on full fiscal autonomy has, for me, been an unwelcome case of déjà vu, and I am afraid that even includes the contribution of my hon. Friend the Member for Gainsborough (Sir Edward Leigh). It would certainly be unwelcome to the people of Scotland if this proposal ever came to pass. It will come as no surprise to the House that the Government will not accept the SNP amendment relating to full fiscal autonomy. This Government are clear: it is not in the interests of the people of Scotland.
We do not need a commission either, because the analysis has been done. The Institute for Fiscal Studies has estimated that full fiscal autonomy would mean Scotland having almost £10 billion less to spend by the last year of this Parliament. That is not a good deal for Scotland and this Government will not support it.
Callum McCaig
Ironically, what gives us a real, and cruel, sense of déjà vu is that despite barely a dozen Conservative Members having been present during this debate to listen to the concerns of the people of Scotland, the Tories will march through the Lobby denying the people of Scotland what they want.
David Mundell
There is not a shred of evidence to suggest that the people of Scotland want full fiscal autonomy. The people of Scotland voted in a referendum—I know that is an inconvenience for the SNP on the road to independence—and voted decisively to remain within the United Kingdom.
Several hon. Members rose—
David Mundell
I need to deal with the specific issues that have been raised, including gift aid. I commend the hon. Member for Edinburgh South (Ian Murray) for pursuing this issue, because it is important to the charitable sector. It came up when I addressed the Scottish Council for Voluntary Organisations recently. I can confirm that the UK Government remain committed to working with the charity sector to ensure that gift aid works effectively for charities and their donors. This is something that we already do, and something that we will continue to do. We consulted the charity sector fully in advance of agreeing the arrangements for the continued operation of gift aid under the Scottish rate of income tax, which will come into effect in April 2016. Similarly, we are fully committed to consulting the charity sector, in Scotland and the rest of the UK, ahead of agreeing arrangements for the continued operation of gift aid under the devolution of income tax powers as proposed by the Bill.
The Government are fully committed to an ongoing dialogue with the charity sector before and after the enactment of the Bill to ensure that gift aid continues to operate effectively. It is our objective to maximise the amount of gift aid claimed on eligible donations. I hope that, on the basis of those reassurances, the hon. Gentleman will not press his new clause to a vote.
Ian Murray
I am grateful to the Secretary of State for his clarification on gift aid. That is a significant concern for the charity sector in Scotland, which will welcome his reassurances. On that basis, we will not press new clause 4 to a vote.
David Mundell
I thank the hon. Gentleman for that.
I also thank the hon. Member for Edinburgh East (Tommy Sheppard). I usually disagree fundamentally with his contributions, but I always enjoy them. I also commend him on winning the new MP of the year award from The Spectator. He and the hon. Member for Paisley and Renfrewshire North (Gavin Newlands) touched on the Sewel convention—the legislative consent motion procedure in the Scottish Parliament. I am afraid that I do not agree with their proposals. The Sewel convention has been set out in the Bill, as required by the Smith commission.
David Mundell
I want to respond to all the points raised on the new clauses and amendments if I can.
The hon. Member for Nottingham North (Mr Allen) has put forward various suggestions on local government. On the one hand, I agree with the SNP that it is a matter for the Scottish Parliament to determine the nature of local government in Scotland. On the other hand, I agree with the hon. Gentleman that as many matters as possible in Scotland should be devolved locally. Indeed, that was one of Lord Smith’s proposals for the Bill.
On the question of permanence, I am glad that the current proposal, which I had previously shared with the Scottish Government and the Devolved Powers Committee, meets everyone’s aspirations. In response to the hon. Member for Caerphilly (Wayne David), this is an important proposal which demonstrates what the people of Scotland have clearly indicated they wish to see in the legislation. I am also pleased that the proposals relating to elections have been relatively uncontentious, as were the measures relating to a super-majority. I therefore hope that the amendments to those measures will not be pressed to a vote.
I am afraid that I cannot agree with Labour’s proposal for the full amount of VAT raised in Scotland to be assigned to Scotland. It was a key part of the Smith agreement that half the VAT revenue should be so assigned, in order to ensure a stable balance between encouraging Scotland’s economy to grow and insulating the Scottish Government’s budget from UK-wide economic shocks. I hope that the relevant amendment will therefore not be pressed to a vote.
The question of human rights was raised by the hon. and learned Member for Edinburgh South West (Joanna Cherry). I have found her previous contributions to this Parliament to be based on fact and not on politics, so it will not surprise her to learn that I was disappointed with her contribution this evening. This is an important issue. The House will be aware that we have outlined our proposal to reform and modernise our human rights framework by replacing the Human Rights Act with a Bill of Rights. Of course I am very aware of the possible devolution implications of reform, and we will engage with the devolved Administrations as we develop these proposals. We spoke about this matter in Committee, and the Government’s view has not changed. The Government are working on proposals for the reform of the human rights framework, and we will bring forward those proposals in due course, in consultation with the devolved Administrations.
The fiscal framework has also been discussed today. I want to put on record the fact that I am absolutely confident that John Swinney, negotiating on behalf of the Scottish Government, will be able to get a good deal for them. I have that confidence in Mr Swinney, and I know that he and the UK Government are absolutely committed to achieving that objective. We have had a number of detailed discussions on the fiscal framework, and we agreed at the start that we would not provide a running commentary on those negotiations. Nothing is agreed until everything is agreed. However, there is no suggestion that agreement cannot be reached, and it will be an agreement that is fair for Scotland and fair for the rest of the United Kingdom. I look forward to Members of this House and of the Scottish Parliament being able to properly scrutinise that agreement.
Sir Edward Leigh
Will my right hon. Friend deal briefly with amendment 224, which has been tabled by the SNP? According to its accompanying explanatory statement, instead of asking the House to impose full fiscal autonomy, the Scottish Parliament
“could then legislate in these areas to provide for full fiscal autonomy in Scotland.”
In other words, SNP Members do not actually want full fiscal autonomy yet. They are like St Augustine: they want to stop sinning, but not quite yet. I think we should call their bluff on this one.
David Mundell
Throughout the course of these debates it has been clear that the strongest advocate of full fiscal devolution in this House is my hon. Friend the Member for Gainsborough (Sir Edward Leigh). He is willing to put his money where his mouth is. I am not willing to put the livelihoods of people in Scotland on the line just to demonstrate that some scheme would not work.
David Mundell
I want to deal with new clause 36, which is an important proposal—at least the hon. Gentleman’s colleagues suggest it is. In September 2014, the people of Scotland voted decisively to remain part of the United Kingdom, and to retain our two Parliaments and two Governments. The SNP reassured us repeatedly in advance of the referendum that it would be a once-in-a-generation or once-in-a-lifetime event. The First Minister herself signed the Edinburgh agreement, which committed both of Scotland’s Governments to respect the outcome of the independence referendum. However much the SNP might dislike the fact, the 2 million people in Scotland who voted no voted to keep our United Kingdom. Their votes should be respected and not set aside as an unfortunate setback on the road to independence. Most people in Scotland support our place in the United Kingdom and do not want a second referendum—that is a fact that the SNP cannot face up to.
This new clause is a distraction from the real powers contained in this Bill. The Bill gives the Scottish Parliament significant new powers, with the strength of the United Kingdom. The SNP needs to tell us how it intends to use those powers for the benefit of the people of Scotland. I will therefore not be supporting new clause 36 and am again proposing that people support my amendments.
Question put and agreed to.
New clause 12 accordingly read a Second time, and added to the Bill.
New Clause 13
Functions exercisable within devolved competence: elections
“(1) The Scotland Act 1998 (“the 1998 Act”) has effect, in relation to any function so far as exercisable within devolved competence by virtue of a provision of section 3, as if references to a “pre-commencement enactment” were to—
(a) an Act passed before or in the same session as the relevant date,
(b) any other enactment made before the relevant date,
(c) subordinate legislation under section 106 of the 1998 Act, to the extent that the legislation states that it is to be treated as a pre-commencement enactment,
but did not include the 1998 Act or this Act (or any amendment made by either of those Acts) or (subject to paragraph (c)) an enactment comprised in subordinate legislation under either of those Acts.
(2) In this section—
(a) expressions used in the 1998 Act have the same meaning as in that Act;
(b) the relevant date is the date on which section 3 comes into force.”—(Stephen Barclay.)
This amendment makes provision for various existing functions of Ministers of the Crown in respect of elections to instead be exercised by Scottish Ministers, so far as such functions are exercisable within devolved competence by virtue of Clause 3.
Brought up, read the First and Second time, and added to the Bill.
New Clause 1
Independent Commission on Full Fiscal Autonomy
“(1) The Secretary of State shall appoint a commission of between four and eleven members to conduct an analysis of the impact of Full Fiscal Autonomy on the Scottish economy, labour market and public finances and to report by 31 March 2016.
(2) No member of the House of Commons, the House of Lords, or the Scottish Parliament may be a member of the commission.
(3) No employee of the Scottish Government or of any government Department or agency anywhere in the United Kingdom may be a member of the commission.
(4) The Secretary of State shall, in consultation and with the agreement of Scottish Ministers, appoint as members of the commission only persons who appear to the Secretary of State to hold a relevant qualification or to have relevant experience.
(5) The Secretary of State shall not appoint as a member of the commission any person who is a member of a political party.
(6) Before appointing any member of the commission, the Secretary of State must consult—
(a) The Chair of any select committee appointed by the House of Commons to consider Scottish Affairs, and
(b) The Chair of any select committee appointed by the House of Commons to examine the expenditure, administration and policy of Her Majesty’s Treasury and its associated public bodies.
(7) The Secretary of State may by regulations issue the commission with terms of reference and guidelines for the commission’s working methods, including an outline definition of the policy of full fiscal autonomy for the commission to analyse.
(8) The Secretary of State must lay copies of the report of the commission before both Houses of Parliament, and must transmit a copy of the report of the commission to the Presiding Officer of the Scottish Parliament.
(9) Regulations under this section must be made by statutory instrument, subject to annulment in pursuance of a resolution of either House of Parliament.”—(Ian Murray.)
The new Clause provides for the establishment of an independent commission to investigate the impact of FFA.
Brought up, and read the First time.
Question put, That the clause be read a Second time:—
Mr Deputy Speaker
It is not for the Chair to decide what the SNP does; it is up to the SNP to decide what it moves or does not move. As I said, I knew that it was not a point of order, and I knew that you knew the answer before you asked me.
New Clause 14
“Welfare foods
‘(1) Part 2 of Schedule 5 to the Scotland Act 1998, Section F1 (social security schemes) is amended as follows.
(2) In the Exceptions, after exception 8 (see section 23 above) insert—
“Exception 9
The subject-matter of section 13 of the Social Security Act 1988 (benefits under schemes for improving nutrition: pregnant women, mothers and children).”
(3) In the Interpretation provision, at the end insert—
“The reference to the subject-matter of section 13 of the Social Security Act 1988 is to be construed as a reference to it as at the day on which section [Welfare foods] of the Scotland Act 2015 comes into force (and, accordingly, paragraph 5(1) of Part 3 of this Schedule does not apply to that reference).”
(4) Omit Section J5 (welfare foods).
(5) In the Social Security Act 1988, in section 13(2) (benefits under schemes for improving nutrition: consultation) omit “the Scottish Ministers and”.”—(David Mundell.)
This amendment devolves to the Scottish Parliament legislative competence regarding welfare foods, enabling the Scottish Parliament, in relation to Scotland, to abolish or amend schemes for the provision of welfare foods, as currently made under section 13 of the Social Security Act 1988, or to make new schemes for the provision of welfare foods.
Brought up, and read the First time.
Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Lindsay Hoyle)
With this it will be convenient to discuss Government new clause 34—Power to create other new benefits.
Government new clause 15—Abortion.
Government new clause 16—Public sector duty regarding socio-economic inequalities.
Government new clause 17—Destination of fines, forfeitures and fixed penalties.
New clause 2—
“New benefits
In Section F1 of Part 2 of Schedule 5 to the Scotland Act 1998, in the Exceptions, after exception 8 (see section 23 above) insert—
“Exception 9
A benefit not in existence at the relevant date provided entitlement to or the purpose of the benefit is different from entitlement to or the purpose of any benefit that is— For the purpose of this exception—
(a) in existence at the relevant date,
(b) payable by or on behalf of a Minister of the Crown, and
(c) otherwise a reserved benefit.
“the relevant date” means the date of introduction into Parliament of the Bill that becomes the Scotland Act 2015;
“reserved benefit” means a benefit which is to any extent a reserved matter.””
The new Clause expands and clarifies the right of the Scottish Government to create new benefits—that is, benefits not in existence on the date on which the bill is passed.
New clause 3—
“Joint Committee on Welfare Devolution
‘(1) There is to be a Committee (to be known as the Joint Committee on Welfare Devolution) to examine the transfer, implementation and operation of the powers devolved to the Scottish Parliament by Part 3 of this Act.
(2) The Joint Committee on Welfare Devolution is to be responsible for ensuring full co-operation, consultation and information-sharing between the UK Government, the Scottish Government, and relevant stakeholders.
(3) The Joint Committee on Welfare Devolution is to publish a report—
(a) on the transfer and implementation of the powers devolved to the Scottish Parliament by Part 3 of this Act at least once every three months for the first three years from the date when this Act is passed, and
(b) on the operation of the powers devolved to the Scottish Parliament by Part 3 of this Act at least once in each calendar year after three years from the date when this Act is passed.
(4) Schedule (The Joint Committee on Welfare Devolution), which makes further provision in relation to the Joint Committee on Welfare Devolution, has effect.”
This new Clause, linked to New Schedule NS1 on the Joint Committee on Welfare Devolution, provides for a cross-Parliament committee to oversee the transition and implementation of welfare powers transferred under this Act. The Committee would include members from both Parliaments and would be required to report frequently in the transition phase and thereafter annually.
New clause 5—
“Childcare element of universal credit
In Section F1 of Part 2 of Schedule 5 to the Scotland Act 1998, in Exceptions, after exception 6 (see section 22 above) insert—
“Exception 7
The subject-matter of regulations 31 to 34 of the Universal Credit Regulations 2013.””
This new clause would devolve to the Scottish Parliament the power to make rules about the childcare element of Universal Credit.
New clause 10—
“Commission on social and economic rights
‘(1) The Secretary of State shall appoint a commission on social and economic rights.
(2) The Secretary of State shall invite the Presiding Officers or Speakers of the House of Commons, House of Lords, National Assembly of Wales, Northern Ireland Assembly and the Scottish Parliament each to nominate no more than three persons to the commission on social and economic rights.
(3) The commission on social and economic rights must report on—
(a) the practicality of making the Scottish Parliament and Scottish Government subject to the rights contained in the International Covenant on Economic, Social and Cultural Rights; and
(b) the consequences of Scottish devolution for the attainment of economic and social rights throughout the United Kingdom.
(4) The Secretary of State may by regulations determine the role, composition, organisation and powers of the commission on social and economic rights.”
The purpose of this New Clause is to create a commission to consider whether economic and social rights could be made justiciable in Scotland, and the prospects for achieving fuller attainment of economic and social rights throughout the United Kingdom.
New clause 18—
“Tax credits
‘(1) In Part 2 of Schedule 5 to the Scotland Act 1998, Section F1 is amended as follows.
(2) In the Exceptions, after exception 9 (see section (Welfare foods) (2) above) insert—
“Exception 10
The subject-matter of the Tax Credits Act 2002.””
This New Clause devolves to the Scottish Parliament the power to make provision for child tax credit, and working tax credit.
New clause 19—
“Employment and industrial relations
‘(1) In Part 2 of Schedule 5 to the Scotland Act 1998, Head H (Employment) is amended as follows.
(2) Omit Section H1 (employment and industrial relations).
(3) Insert new Section H1A as follows.
“H1A. National Minimum Wage
The subject-matter of the National Minimum Wage Act 1998.””
This new clause would devolve employment rights and duties and industrial relations, except for the national minimum wage, to the Scottish Parliament.
New clause 20—
“National minimum wage
‘(1) In Part 2 of Schedule 5 to the Scotland Act 1998, Head H (Employment) is amended as follows.
(2) Omit ‘(h) the National Minimum Wage Act 1998’.
(3) For the heading “Exception”, substitute “Exceptions”.
(4) After the heading “Exceptions” insert—
“(none) “The subject-matter of the National Minimum Wage Act 1998.””
This new clause would devolve the subject-matter of the National Minimum Wage Act 1998 to the Scottish Parliament.
New clause 21—
“National Insurance: employers’ contributions
‘(1) Section F1 of Schedule 5 to the Scotland Act 1998 is amended as follows.
(2) In the illustrations, omit “National Insurance;”
(3) In the Exceptions, after exception 11 (see section (Benefits relating to children)) insert—
“Exception 12
National Insurance so far as relating to contributions payable by employers.””
This new clause would devolve employers’ National Insurance contributions to the Scottish Parliament.
New clause 22—
“Job search and support
In Part 2 of Schedule 5 to the Scotland Act 1998, omit Section H3 (job search and support).”
This new clause would devolve employment support programmes to the Scottish Parliament.
New clause 23—
“Working age benefits
In Section F1 of Part 2 of Schedule 5 to the Scotland Act 1998, in the Exceptions, after exception 9 (see section 23A above) insert—
“Exception 10
Benefits entitlement to which, or the purposes of which, are the same as or similar to those of any of the following benefits—
(a) universal credit under Part 1 of the Welfare Reform Act 2012;
(b) jobseeker’s allowance (whether contributions-based or income based) under the Jobseekers Act 1995;
(c) employment and support allowance (whether contributory or income-related) under Part 1 of the Welfare Reform Act 2007;
(d) income support under section 124 of the Social Security and Benefits Act 1992;
(e) housing benefit under section 130 of that Act and
(f) child tax credit and working tax credit under the Tax Credits Act 2002.
The benefits referred to in paragraphs (a) to (f) above are—(a) in the case of income-based jobseeker’s allowance and income-related employment support allowance, those benefits as they existed on 28 April 2013 (the day before their abolition), (b) in the case of the other benefits, those benefits as they existed on 28 May 2015 (the date of introduction into Parliament of the Bill for the Scotland Act 2015.””
This new clause would devolve working age benefits to the Scottish Parliament.
New clause 24—
“Universal credit: powers to vary other elements
‘(1) A function of making regulations to which this section applies, so far as it is exercisable by the Secretary of State in or as regards Scotland, is exercisable by the Scottish Ministers concurrently with the Secretary of State.
(2) This section applies to—
(a) regulations under section 8(3)(a) of the Welfare Reform Act 2012 (amount in respect of earned income) so far relating to the work allowance (that is, the amount of a claimant’s earned income that is to be disregarded in calculating the amounts to be deducted from the maximum amount in accordance with section 8(3) of that Act),
(b) regulations under section 10 of that Act (amount in respect of responsibility for children and young persons),
(c) regulations under section 12 of that Act (amounts in respect of other particular needs or circumstances) so far as relating to—
(i) the needs or circumstances referred to in subsection (2)(c) of that section (caring responsibilities for a severely disabled person), or
(ii) needs or circumstances of a claimant in paid work relating to childcare costs,
(d) regulations under any of sections 14 to 22, 24 and 25 of that Act (work-related requirements), and
(e) regulations under any of sections 26 to 28 of that Act (sanctions).
(3) The Scottish Ministers may not exercise the function of making regulations to which this section applies unless they have consulted the Secretary of State.
(4) The Secretary of State may not exercise the function of making regulations to which this section applies in or as regards Scotland unless he or she has consulted the Scottish Ministers.
(5) Where regulations are made by the Scottish Ministers by virtue of subsection (1)—
(a) section 43 of the Welfare Reform Act 2012 (regulations: procedure) does not apply, and
(b) the regulations are subject to the negative procedure (see Part 2 of the Interpretation and Legislative Reform (Scotland) Act 2010).””
This new clause would give the Scottish Parliament greater flexibility to make changes in Universal Credit.
New clause 25—
“Benefits relating to children
In Section F1 of Part 2 of Schedule 5 to the Scotland Act 1998, in the Exceptions, after exception 10 (see section (Working age benefits) above) insert—
“Exception 11
Benefits entitlement to which, or the purposes of which, are the same as or similar to those of any of the following benefits—
(a) guardian’s allowance under section 77 of the Social Security Contributions and Benefits Act 1992;
(b) child benefit under Part 9 of that Act.
The benefits referred to in paragraphs (a) and (b) are those benefits as they existed on 28 May 2015 (the date of introduction into Parliament of the Bill for the Scotland Act 2015).””
This new clause would devolve benefits relating to children to the Scottish Parliament.
New clause 26—
“Health and safety
‘(1) In Part 2 of Schedule 5 to the Scotland Act 1998 (“the 1998 Act”), omit Section H2 (health and safety).
(2) The Health and Safety Executive is a cross-border public authority for the purposes of the 1998 Act.
(3) The 1998 Act applies in relation to the Health and Safety Executive in the same way as it applies in relation to cross-border public authorities specified in an Order in Council under section 88(5) of the 1998 Act.”
This new clause would devolve health and safety to the Scottish Parliament and designates the Health and Safety Executive as a cross-border public authority.
New clause 27—
“Equal opportunities
“In Part 2 of Schedule 5 to the Scotland Act 1998, omit Section L2 (equal opportunities).”
This new clause would devolve equal opportunities to the Scottish Parliament.
New clause 28—
“Crown property
‘(1) Part 1 of Schedule 5 to the Scotland Act 1998 (general reservations) is amended as follows.
(2) Omit paragraph 2(3)
(3) In paragraph 3(3), omit paragraph (a).
(4) After paragraph 3, insert—
“(3A) Without prejudice to paragraphs 2 and 3, paragraph 1 does not reserve—
(a) removing or altering functions of, or conferring functions on, the Crown Estate Commissioners in relation to the holding or management of property within paragraph 3(1),
(b) where a function of the Crown Estate Commissioners of holding property is so removed, the transfer of any property held in exercise of the function.”
(5) Functions relating to Crown property are, so far as they relate to Crown property in or relating to the Scottish offshore region, to be treated for the purposes of the Scotland Act 1998 as exercisable in or as regards Scotland.
(6) In subsection (5)—
“Crown property” means property within paragraph 3(1) of Part 1 of Schedule 5 to the Scotland Act 1998, “Scottish offshore region” has the same meaning as in the Marine and Coastal Access Act 2009 (see section 322 of that Act)
(7) In section 1(2) of the Civil List Act 1952 (payment of hereditary revenues into the Scottish Consolidated Fund), omit “from bona vacantia, ultimus haeres and treasure trove”.”
This alternative to clause 31 would reduce the complexity of the current arrangements relating to the Crown Estate by removing the reservation relating to the management of the Crown Estate and provides the Scottish Parliament with full legislative competence in relation to the management of the Crown Estate in or as regards Scotland. It would also transfer any functions of the Crown Estate Commissioners in relation to rights to the continental shelf beyond the 200 nautical mile limit adjacent to Scotland.
New clause 29—
“Party political broadcasts
In Section K1 of Part 2 of Schedule 5 to the Scotland Act 1998 (broadcasting), after the reservation insert—
“Exceptions
(a) party political broadcasts in connection with elections that are within the legislative competence of the Parliament, and
(b) referendum campaign broadcasts in connection with referendums held under Acts of the Scottish Parliament.””
New clause 30—
“Broadcasting
Leave out section K1 in Part 2 of Schedule 5 (Broadcasting) to the 1998 Act.”
New clause 31—
“Levies in respect of agriculture, taking wild game, aquaculture and fisheries etc.
‘(1) In Part 2 of Schedule 5 to the Scotland Act 1998, Section A1 is amended as follows.
(2) In the Exceptions, after the exception for devolved taxes insert—
(3) After the Exceptions insert—
“Interpretation
“agriculture” includes horticulture, fruit growing, seed growing, dairy farming and livestock breeding and keeping, and the use of land as grazing land, meadow land, osier land, market gardens and nursery grounds.
“aquaculture” includes the breeding, rearing or cultivation of fish (of any kind), seafood or aquatic organisms.
“related activity” means the production, processing, manufacture, marketing or distribution of—
(a) anything (including any creature alive or dead) produced or taken in the course of agriculture, taking wild game or aquaculture, or caught (by any means) in a fishery,
(b) any product which is derived to any substantial extent from anything so produced or caught.””
This new Clause would give the Scottish Parliament general legislative competence in respect of agricultural, aquacultural and fisheries levies.
New clause 32—
“Rail Services
In Part 2 of Schedule 5 to the Act, in section E2, after “Exceptions” there is inserted—
This amendment would devolve rail services in Scotland giving Scottish Ministers full powers and flexibility to decide who would run such services.
New clause 33—
“Civil Aviation Authority
‘(1) In Section 1 of the Civil Aviation Act 1982, at end insert—
“(4) The Secretary of State must consult the Scottish Ministers about the strategic priorities of the Secretary of State in exercising functions under subsection (1), and in relation to activities of the Civil Aviation Authority.
(5) In subsection (4), “Scotland” has the same meaning as in the Scotland Act 1998.””
This New Clause would allow a ‘formal consultative role’ for the Scottish Government and the Scottish Parliament in setting the strategic priorities for the Civil Aviation Authority.
New schedule 1—The Joint Committee on Welfare Devolution
Membership
1 The Joint Committee on Welfare Devolution is to comprise the Secretary of State, who is to be the chair of the Committee, and the following other members—
(a) the Scottish Minister who is responsible to the Scottish Parliament for welfare policy and payments, who is to be the deputy chair of the Committee;
(b) the Member of the House of Commons who is for the time being the Chair of the Work and Pensions Select Committee of the House of Commons;
(c) the Member of the Scottish Parliament who is for the time being the Chair of the Welfare Reform Committee of the Scottish Parliament;
(d) two Members of the House of Commons who are not Ministers of the Crown;
(e) two Members of the Scottish Parliament who are not Scottish Ministers; and
(f) two persons representing local government in Scotland.
2 The members of the Joint Committee on Welfare Devolution mentioned in paragraph 1(d) are to be appointed to membership of the Committee by the Speaker of the House of Commons.
3 The members of the Joint Committee on Welfare Devolution mentioned in paragraph 1 (e) are to be appointed to membership of the Committee by the Presiding Officer of the Scottish Parliament.
4 The members of the Joint Committee on Welfare Devolution mentioned in paragraph 1(f) are to be appointed to membership of the Committee by Scottish Ministers after consultation with the Convention of Scottish Local Authorities.
5 In this Schedule, references to the Work and Pensions Select Committee of the House of Commons are—
(a) if the name of that Committee is changed, to be taken (subject to paragraph (b)) to be references to the Committee by its new name;
(b) if the functions of that Committee at the passing of this Act with respect to welfare policy and payments (or functions substantially corresponding thereto) become functions of a different committee of the House of Commons, to be taken to be references to the committee by whom the functions are for the time being exercisable.
6 In this Schedule, references to the Welfare Reform Committee of the Scottish Parliament are—
(a) if the name of that Committee is changed, to be taken (subject to paragraph (b)) to be references to the Committee by its new name;
(b) if the functions of that Committee at the passing of this Act with respect to welfare policy and payments (or functions substantially corresponding thereto) become functions of a different committee of the Scottish Parliament, to be taken to be references to the committee by whom the functions are for the time being exercisable.
Term of office of Committee members
7 A member may resign from the Committee at any time by giving notice to the Secretary of State.
8 A member may be re-appointed (or further re-appointed) to membership of the Committee.
Committee proceedings
9 The Joint Committee on Welfare Reform may determine its own procedure.
10 The validity of any proceedings of the Joint Committee on Welfare Reform is not affected by—
(a) any vacancy among, or
(b) any defect in the appointment of any of, the members of the Committee.
11 The Joint Committee on Welfare Reform may appoint a member of the Committee to act as chair at any meeting of the Committee in the absence of both the Secretary of State and the Scottish Minster who is deputy chair of the Committee.
Advisory Panel
12 The Secretary of State and Scottish Ministers acting jointly may make regulations appointing an advisory panel on the transfer, implementation and operation of the powers devolved to the Scottish Parliament by Part 3 of this Act, comprising academics, representatives of the third sector and voluntary organisations, and other relevant stakeholders.
13 The Joint Committee on Welfare Reform must consult any advisory panel appointed under paragraph 12 of this Schedule.
This new Schedule is linked to New Clause NC3 (Joint Committee on Welfare Reform) and makes provision about membership and proceedings of the Joint Committee, including the appointment of an advisory panel including third sector and academic experts.
Amendment 194, in clause 19, page 21, line 39, leave out from “of” to end of line 7 on page 22 and insert “a disabled person or person with a physical or mental impairment or health condition in respect of effects or needs arising from that disability, impairment or health condition.”
Government amendments 70, 71, 72, 73, 191 and 192
Amendment 21, in clause 21, page 24, leave out lines 13 to 20.
This amendment would allow the Scottish Parliament to legislate for topping up reserved benefits by providing financial assistance in any case where the requirement for it arises from reduction, non-payability or suspension of a reserved benefit as a result of an individual’s conduct.
Amendment 159, in clause 22, page 24, leave out lines 36 to 48.
This amendment would remove some of the restrictions, including those relating to sanctions, in relation to discretionary housing payments.
Government amendments 76.
Amendment 22, in clause 22, page 25, leave out lines 1 to 8.
This amendment would allow the Scottish Parliament to legislate for making discretionary housing payments by providing financial assistance in any case where the requirement for it arises from reduction, non-payability or suspension of a reserved benefit as a result of an individual’s conduct.
Amendment 23, in clause 23, page 25, leave out lines 30 to 37.
This amendment would allow the Scottish Parliament to legislate for making discretionary payments to meet short-term needs by providing financial assistance in any case where the requirement for it arises from reduction, non-payability or suspension of a reserved benefit as a result of an individual’s conduct.
Amendment 161, in clause 23, page 25, line 40, after “individuals”, insert “—
“(a) ”
Amendment 162, in clause 23, page 25, line 45, at end add “, or (b) who are part of a family facing exceptional pressure.”
Amendment 163, in clause 24, page 26, line 20, leave out from “unless” to end of line 25 and insert “they have consulted the Secretary of State”
This amendment would remove the requirement for the Scottish Government to obtain consent from a UK Secretary of State in relation to Universal Credit and the costs of claimants who rent accommodation.
Government amendments 77.
Amendment 24, page 26, line 25, leave out “unreasonably”
This amendment would make it clear that the UK Government cannot withhold agreement and will have a legal obligation to agree to any changes to regulations made by the Scottish Government using the new regulation-making powers conferred under clause 24.
Amendment 32, page 26, line 35, leave out “negative procedure (see section 28” and insert “affirmative procedure (see section 29”
This amendment would require regulations made by Scottish Ministers under subsection (1) of Clause 24 (Universal credit: costs of claimants who rent accommodation) to be subject to the Scottish Parliament’s affirmative procedure.
Amendment 164, in clause 25, page 26, line 45, leave out from “unless” to end of line 5 on page 27 and insert “they have consulted the Secretary of State”.
This amendment would remove the requirement for the Scottish Government to obtain consent from a UK Secretary of State in relation to persons to who, and time when, Universal Credit is paid.
Government amendments 78.
Amendment 25, page 27, line 5, leave out “unreasonably”.
This amendment would make it clear that the UK Government cannot withhold agreement and will have a legal obligation to agree to any changes to regulations made by the Scottish Government using the new regulation-making powers conferred under clause 25.
Amendment 33, page 27, line 13, leave out “negative procedure (see section 28” and insert “affirmative procedure (see section 29”.
This amendment would require regulations made by Scottish Ministers under subsection (1) of Clause 25 (Universal credit: person to whom, and time when, paid) to be subject to the Scottish Parliament’s affirmative procedure.
Amendment 165, in clause 26, page 27, line 22, leave out from beginning to “for” in line 23 and insert “Arrangements”.
Amendments 165, 166 and 167 make provision for the Scottish Parliament to have power to legislate on arrangements for employment support programmes.
Amendment 166, page 27, leave out lines 27 to 29 and insert—“assisting persons (including persons claiming reserved benefits) who are unemployed or at risk of long-term unemployment to select, obtain and retain employment;”
Amendments 165, 166 and 167 make provision for the Scottish Parliament to have power to legislate on arrangements for employment support programmes
Amendment 167, page 27, line 34, leave out “another person” and insert “a person other than the person making the arrangements”.
Amendments 165, 166 and 167 make provision for the Scottish Parliament to have power to legislate on arrangements for employment support programmes.
Government amendments 79, 80, 82, 193 and 83.
Amendment 168, page 30, line 30, leave out Clause 31.
Amendment 11, in clause 31, page 30, line 34, leave out “may” and insert “must following agreement with the Scottish Government”.
Government amendments 84 to 89.
Amendment 12, page 32, line 25, leave out “C” and insert “A”.
Amendment 13, page 32, line 31, leave out “then, instead of the type C procedure”.
Amendment 14, page 32, line 31, leave out “I” and insert “A”.
Government amendments 90 to 96.
Amendment 169, in clause 32, page 33, line 44, leave out subsection (2).
This amendment delivers a more explicit reference to the devolution of competence over gender quotas in respect of public bodies in Scotland but ensures that it is “not limited to” gender quotas, as agreed in the Smith Commission report.
Amendment 225, page 34, line 2, leave out subsection (3) and insert—
‘(3) Under the heading “Exceptions”, at end insert—
(none) Equal opportunities in relation to the Scottish functions of any Scottish public authority or cross-border public authority including appointments to the board of any Scottish public authority. The provision falling within this exception includes provision that reproduces or applies an enactment contained in the Equality Act 2006 or the Equality Act 2010, with or without modification, without affecting the enactment as it applies for the purposes of those Acts. It does not include any modification of those Acts, other than modifications of the types specified in paragraphs (a) to (d)
(a) provision that supplements or is otherwise additional to provision made by those Acts, and which may enhance but may not diminish the protection and promotion of equal opportunities afforded by the provision made by those Acts;
(b) in particular, provision imposing a requirement to take action that the Acts do not prohibit;
(c) provision that extends application of the existing powers and duties of, or grants additional powers to, the Commission for Equality and Human Rights in respect of provisions made under any part of subsection (3)
(d) provision that requires the Commission for Equality and Human Rights to attend the proceedings of the Scottish Parliament for the purposes of giving evidence and to send each annual report of the Commission to the Scottish Ministers and that requires the Scottish Ministers to lay each annual report received before the Scottish Parliament.”
This amendment makes provision for the Scottish Parliament to have legislative competence in respect of the public sector equality duty, and in respect of equality of opportunity in relation to the functions of Scottish and cross-border public authorities, including appointments to public boards. It clarifies that the Scottish Parliament’s power to make modifications to the Equality Acts 2006 and 2010 is limited to making provision that enhances the protection and promotion of equal opportunities. The amendment makes provision for the powers of the Equality and Human Rights Commission to be applied in relation to any modifications to the Acts. It also enables provision to be made to increase the accountability of the Equality and Human Rights Commission to the Scottish Parliament.
Government amendments 97 and 98.
Amendment 171, in clause 32, page 34, line 4, at end insert—
“Equal opportunities in relation to an appointment as a member of a Scottish public authority.”
Government amendments 100 and 99.
Amendment 26, page 34, line 13, at end insert “including the imposition of minimum quotas for women and other persons with protected characteristics across all levels of public and political representation in Scotland.”
This Amendment is intended to make explicit that, among the exceptions to reserved matters on equal opportunities, the power is being devolved to the Scottish Parliament to set gender quotas.
Amendment 157, page 34, line 16, at end insert—
“(d) equal opportunity provisions in relation to candidates at an election for membership of the Scottish Parliament and a local government election in Scotland.”
This would allow the necessary competence for gender quotas in relation to the Scottish Parliament and local government to be transferred to the Scottish Parliament.
Government amendment 101.
Amendment 172, page 34, line 18, leave out “the Equality Act 2010 and Part 1 of that Act” and insert “and the Equality Act 2010”.
Government amendment 102.
Amendment 173, in clause 32, page 34, line 25, leave out subsection (6) and insert—
‘( ) In section 2 (power to amend section1)—
(a) in subsection (7), omit “the Scottish Ministers or”,
(b) in subsection (10), before “Ministers” insert “Welsh””
Government amendment 103.
Amendment 174, page 34, line 37, leave out subsection (9) and insert—
‘( ) In section 216 (commencement) at the beginning of subsection (3) insert “Subject to subsection (4),” and after that subsection insert—
(4) Part 1 comes into force on such day as the Scottish Ministers may by order appoint so far as it—
(a) confers a power on the Scottish Ministers
(b) relates to a public authority in respect of which such a power is exercisable.
(5) The following do not apply to an order under subsection (4)—
(a) section 207(2) (see instead section 27 of the Interpretation and Legislative Reform (Scotland) Act 2010: powers exercisable by Scottish statutory instrument), and
(b) section 210.””
Government amendment 104.
Amendment 175, page 35, line 2, leave out subsection (10).
Government amendment 105.
Amendment 15, page 35, leave out lines 18 and 19.
Amendment 16, page 35, leave out lines 24 and 25.
Amendment 176, page 35, leave out lines 26 to 30 and insert—
‘(nonenone) “This Schedule does not reserve the transfer of all the functions of a tribunal referred to in sub-paragraph (2) to a Scottish tribunal, so far as the functions are exercisable in relation to Scottish cases or a specified category of Scottish cases, in accordance with provision made by Her Majesty by Order in Council.”
This amendment would ensure that all functions exercisable in relation to Scottish cases or a specified category of Scottish cases should transfer to the Scottish Parliament.
Amendment 17, page 35, leave out lines 26 to 30.
Amendment 177, page 35, leave out from beginning of line 31 to end of line 7 on page 36.
Amendment 178, page 36, line 22, at end insert—
‘( ) For the avoidance of doubt, this Schedule does not reserve—
(a) a Scottish tribunal’s practice and procedure when exercising functions that have been transferred to it by virtue of this paragraph, or
(b) the fees and expenses chargeable for, or in connection with, proceedings before a Scottish tribunal when it is exercising those functions.”
This amendment makes clear that competence over a tribunal’s practice, rules of procedure and fees in relation to transferred cases becomes devolved, as per the Smith Commission recommendation.
Amendment 179, in clause 34, page 37, line 28, leave out from “relating” to “to” in line 29.
This amendment would remove a restriction on the full devolution of speed limits in relation to emergency vehicles.
Amendment 180, in clause 36, page 41, line 15, leave out paragraph (a) and insert—
“(a) in relation to vehicles used on roads in Scotland, means the Scottish Ministers.”
Amendment 181, page 41, line 19, at end insert—
‘(18) In section 130 (application of Act to Crown)—
(a) in subsection (3) for “Secretary of State” substitute “relevant authority”, and
(b) after that subsection insert—
(3A) In subsection (3) “relevant authority”—
(a) in relation to vehicles used on roads in Scotland, means the Scottish Ministers,
(b) otherwise, means the Secretary of State.”
This amendment would amend section 130(3) of the Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984 so that Scottish Ministers are added into the provision as the relevant “national authority”.
Government amendments 106 to 128.
Amendment 182, in clause 45, page 47, leave out lines 4 to 8, and insert—
“The number of relevant gaming machines authorised (if any) in respect of premises licences under the Gambling Act 2005.
A “relevant gaming machine” is a gaming machine (within the meaning of section 235 of the Gambling Act 2005) for which the maximum charge for use is more than £10.”
This amendment replaces the reference to betting premises with a more general reference to gambling premises, giving full effect to Smith Commission recommendation 74.
Amendment 18, page 47, line 7 , leave out “for which the maximum charge for use is more than £10”.
Amendment 1, page 47, line 7, leave out “£10” and insert “£2”.
Amendment 183, page 47, leave out lines 13 to 20 and insert—
“(a) the Scottish Ministers in respect of premises in Scotland in so far as the order varies the number of gaming machines authorised (if any) for which the maximum charge for use is more than £10, or
(b) otherwise, the Secretary of State.”
This amendment replaces the reference to betting premises with a more general reference to gambling premises, giving full effect to Smith Commission recommendation 74.
Amendment 19, page 47, line 17, leave out “for which the maximum charge for use is more than £10”.
Amendment 2, page 47, line 18, leave out “£10” and insert “£2”.
Amendment 3, page 47, line 18, after “£10”, insert—
‘( ) the content and the speed of play,”
Amendment 4, page 47, line 18, after “£10”, insert—
‘( ) the number of staff required to supervise such machines,”
Amendment 20, page 47, line 35, leave out subsection (6).
Government amendments 137 to 139.
Amendment 184, in clause 50, page 49, leave out from line 32 to line 50 on page 50 and insert—
‘(4) The Scottish Ministers may not make regulations under section 9 unless they have consulted the Secretary of State about the proposed regulations.
(5) Subsection (1) does not prevent the Secretary of State making a support scheme in relation to Scotland under section 9, or varying or revoking regulations made by the Scottish Ministers under that section with the agreement of the Scottish Ministers.”
Government amendments 140 to 143.
Amendment 185, in clause 51, page 52, line 9, leave out from beginning to end of line 6 on page 53 and insert—
‘(4) The power of the Scottish Ministers under section 33BC does not include power to make provision in relation to the subject matter of sections 88 to 90 of the Energy Act 2008 (smart meters).
(5) The Scottish Ministers may not make an order under section 33BC unless they have consulted the Secretary of State about the proposed order.
(6) The power of the Secretary of State to make an order under section 33BC is exercisable so as to make any provision that may be made by the Scottish Ministers under that section, or vary or revoke an order made by the Scottish Ministers under that section, but only with the agreement of the Scottish Ministers.”
Government amendments 144 to 147.
Amendment 186, page 53, line 48, leave out from beginning to end of line 40 on page 54 and insert—
‘(5) The Scottish Ministers may not make an order under section 33BD unless they have consulted the Secretary of State about the proposed order.
(6) The power of the Secretary of State to make an order under section 33BD is exercisable so as to make any provision that may be made by the Scottish Ministers under that section, or vary or revoke an order made by the Scottish Ministers under that section, but only with the agreement of the Scottish Ministers.”
Government amendments 148 to 150.
Amendment 187, page 55, line 30, leave out from beginning to end of line 24 on page 56 and insert—
“(5) The Scottish Ministers may not make an order under section 41A unless they have consulted the Secretary of State about the proposed order.
(6) The power of the Secretary of State to make an order under section 41A is exercisable so as to make any provision that may be made by the Scottish Ministers under that section, or vary or revoke an order made by the Scottish Ministers under that section, but only with the agreement of the Scottish Ministers.”
Government amendments 151 to 153
Amendment 188, page 57, line 17, leave out from beginning to line 9 on page 58 and insert—
“(5) The Scottish Ministers may not make an order under section 41B unless they have consulted the Secretary of State about the proposed order.
(6) The power of the Secretary of State to make an order under section 41B is exercisable so as to make any provision that may be made by the Scottish Ministers under that section, or vary or revoke an order made by the Scottish Ministers under that section, but only with the agreement of the Scottish Ministers.”
Government amendment 154.
Amendment 189, in clause 53, page 60, leave out lines 9 to 17.
This amendment removes restrictions on the consultation process with the Scottish Government and Scottish Parliament in relation to renewables incentive schemes.
Amendment 190, in clause 55, page 63, line 17, at end insert—
“() the Scottish Ministers,”.
Clause 55 as currently drafted would allow Scottish Ministers to make a reference to the Competition and Markets Authority only in the most exceptional circumstances. This amendment would enable Scottish Ministers to make a reference without the involvement of the Secretary of State.
Government amendments 129 and 133 to 136.
David Mundell
Let me begin by dealing with the specific issue of welfare funds, on which I am accepting an amendment that the SNP tabled in Committee. The Smith commission agreement stated that the devolution of welfare foods should be the subject of further discussion between the UK and Scottish Governments. This has taken place, and I am pleased that new clause 14 and consequential amendments 79, 80, 82 and 83 devolve powers to the Scottish Parliament concerning welfare foods. They will be able to abolish or amend existing schemes, which includes the nursery milk scheme and health start scheme, or make new schemes for the provision of welfare foods.
On welfare more generally, the Government are proposing a number of changes to the welfare clauses, responding to a number of comments made by Members of this House in Committee, as well as the Scottish Parliament and other stakeholders. As a result, it will be beyond doubt that the Scotland Bill fully delivers on the Smith commission agreement and that the Scottish Parliament will have significant responsibilities for areas of welfare. I was pleased to see these changes receiving a full endorsement from Gordon Brown, from the Scottish media, and indeed from all objective observers. The Scottish Government are getting responsibility for disability and carer’s benefits that were worth £2.7 billion in Scotland last year, and they will be able to deliver new benefits in all areas of devolved responsibility if they wish. Amendments 70 and 71 to clause 19 ensure that the Scottish Parliament can, if it wishes, legislate for the payment of a carer’s benefit to a person who is under 16, is in full-time education or is gainfully employed. The Scottish Government will be able to pay anyone on a reserved benefit a top-up payment. That includes being able to top up benefits such as tax credits, child benefit and universal credit.
Ian Murray
For the sake of clarity, will the Secretary of State say whether the Scotland Bill, as drafted this evening, will allow the Scottish Parliament to top up tax credits?
David Mundell
I have said it on numerous occasions and I am very happy to say it again: the Scotland Bill, as it progresses through the House this evening, will allow the Scottish Parliament to top up tax credits, and indeed child benefit and elements of universal credit. The Scottish Government will be able to pay shorter-term payments to help anyone, regardless of whether or not they are entitled to a reserved benefit, who has an immediate need for them and whose wellbeing is at risk.
I have proposed important changes to the Bill so that the Scottish Parliament can create its own new benefits in any area of devolved responsibility. That will be achieved by new clause 34 and amendments 191 to 193. The Scottish Parliament will be able to do this without any need to consult the UK Government. This power is significant: the Scottish Parliament will no longer be able to say that it is constrained by Westminster in deciding what it does, and it will be able to choose what additional benefits to offer people in Scotland.
I must, however, make very clear a few important points about the new power that the Scottish Parliament will get to create new benefits in devolved areas. Any new benefits that the Scottish Government want to deliver will be in parallel to the benefits that are delivered by the UK Government. The new power does not affect Westminster’s ability to legislate for and to deliver support, and it does not enable the Scottish Parliament to change or amend reserved Westminster legislation in any way. The Scottish Parliament will need to both fund and deliver any new benefits from Scottish funds.
The House will be aware that we have also delivered on other areas of Smith in full. Scottish Ministers will be able to make regulations for certain elements of universal credit, such as the frequency of payments and to whom they are paid.
Ms Ahmed-Sheikh
For clarity on the tax credit cuts, what provision is there for those who will lose their tax credits completely, as a result of this Tory Government’s cutting agenda, in the Scotland Bill?
David Mundell
I do not know whether the hon. Lady is familiar with the income tax provisions in the Bill, but the Scottish Parliament will have complete control over income tax in Scotland. If it is concerned that people in work are not receiving sufficient income, it will be able to adjust those tax rates. The hon. Lady knows that tax credits are not being devolved, but she also knows that they can be topped up. She and her party have been particularly unwilling to say whether or not they propose to top up those benefits.
Several hon. Members rose—
David Mundell
No, I will not give way.
SNP Members will have a whole range of benefits, but rather than put any thought into how to evolve a welfare system in Scotland, they are taking the usual SNP position—focus, focus, focus on what we cannot do, rather than telling anybody in Scotland what we can do.
David Mundell
No. I have dealt with that issue.
There was much debate in Committee on the universal credit powers. There were many inaccurate accusations that the UK Government would have a power to veto decisions of the Scottish Government. To put this beyond reasonable doubt, I have tabled amendments to clauses 24 and 25 to make it clear that there is no UK veto over decisions that the Scottish Government make in this space. Amendments 77 and 78 will strengthen the drafting of those provisions. The Secretary of State for Work and Pensions will remain legally responsible for the delivery of universal credit, but both Governments will need to work collaboratively to consider any such changes to the elements of universal credit. That is at the heart of clauses 24 and 25, and I know that our officials have already had very constructive discussions with the Scottish Government on this subject. To ensure that the record is crystal clear, let me say that there are no UK Government vetoes anywhere in these welfare and employment clauses.
I would like to emphasise that we have listened to the Scottish Government and to the debate in the House. For example, amendment 72, which enables the Scottish Government to provide non-financial assistance for maternity, funeral and heating expenses, reflects an amendment the SNP tabled in Committee. After full consideration, the Government are happy to make this change. Amendments 73, 76, 191 and 192 also relate to that provision.
All in all, this settlement fully reflects the agreement reached by the Smith commission. It ensures that the areas that the agreement said should remain reserved—pensions, universal credit, sanctions and conditionality, and employment support delivered by Jobcentre Plus—remain the responsibility of the UK Government, but, importantly, it gives the Scottish Parliament full responsibility for many areas of welfare. The Scottish Parliament will have the autonomy to legislate for large areas of welfare, and I look forward to the beginning of the debate on how it intends to use those powers.
The Smith commission agreement also recommended the devolution of abortion legislation, given that the parties to the agreement were strongly of the view that the anomalous reservation needed to be corrected. As I announced last month, UK and Scottish Ministers and officials have held discussions on the matter and reflected very carefully about the practicalities of devolution in this area.
Ian Murray
I am grateful to the Secretary of State for accepting a lot of the Labour amendments, and indeed some SNP amendments tabled in Committee. He said quite clearly in Committee back in July that he would not devolve abortion without a proper process and full consultation and discussion with Scottish women’s groups. What has made him change his mind?
David Mundell
I do not think that that is an accurate reflection of what I said. I made it very clear that the Smith commission had recommended the devolution of abortion and that we were engaged in a discussion with the Scottish Government. We have of course engaged with women’s groups in Scotland. The groups to whom I have spoken are clear that abortion can be devolved.
David Mundell
Not just at the moment, if the hon. Lady will let me finish.
Those groups are clear that the Scottish Parliament has the capacity to deal with the issue of abortion, but they want its devolution to be handled sensitively. I think that we are in the process of doing that. The First Minister of Scotland has made it very clear that she has no plans to change the existing arrangements in relation to abortion. The hon. Member for Edinburgh South (Ian Murray) will know that devolving abortion to the Scottish Parliament will not simply lead to a change in the law in Scotland; that will happen only if the Scottish Parliament makes such a decision.
Yvette Cooper (Normanton, Pontefract and Castleford) (Lab)
The Secretary of State will know that it is not in the gift of any one Minister to make such a decision. He is actually proposing a very substantial change to the framework of abortion legislation. In fact, he has done no proper, substantial consultation. We will have just a few minutes in the House to discuss something that is so substantial and such a big change to the Abortion Act 1967. Does he really think that a few minutes’ discussion now, and the limited conversations between Scotland Office and Scottish Government officials, is the right way to do this?
David Mundell
My starting point is that I believe that the Scottish Parliament has the capacity to deal with this issue. It is in danger of verging on the patronising to suggest that the Scottish Parliament is not capable of dealing with it. Even though it is an issue of great importance and conscience, I am satisfied that the Scottish Parliament has the capacity to deal with it.
Deidre Brock (Edinburgh North and Leith) (SNP)
Does the Minister agree that it is extraordinary that, despite all three main parties in Scotland being led by women and the Scottish Parliament having brought in some of the most progressive legislation on equal marriage in the world, the Labour party apparently still feels that Scotland’s people need male-dominated Westminster to protect women’s rights?
David Mundell
I do not totally agree with that analysis, either. However, I am strongly of the view that there is no constitutional reason not to devolve abortion. The Scottish Parliament has responsibility for most aspects of the NHS and the criminal justice system.
Yvette Cooper
Does the Secretary of State not realise that he is setting up two different systems, one for Scotland and one for England and Wales, when we know from other parts of the world that that leads to women having to travel for abortions at a vulnerable time? That issue of principle—deciding whether it is right for people to have to travel—is important. I hope that many of our Scottish colleagues will agree with us about the importance of the 1967 Act. I know that there is strong agreement from the First Minister. However, there is an issue of principle in whether we think it is right to increase the likelihood of women having to travel at a vulnerable time. Does he think it is right to do that without proper consultation with women across not just Scotland, but England—
David Mundell
I do not think that there is any evidence to suggest that what the right hon. Lady describes will be the case. There is considerable evidence that, over the past 16 years, the Scottish Parliament has dealt with sensitive matters in an appropriate way.
Jess Phillips (Birmingham, Yardley) (Lab)
My understanding is that this matter was not originally in the devolution plans, but was added after it was raised with a number of Members of the House who are pro-life. Will the Minister please allay my fears?
David Mundell
I can confirm that that is absolutely not the case. The Smith commission report makes it clear that devolution of abortion law should take place and that the reservation in the 1998 Act was anomalous in comparison with the health and criminal justice devolution that took place. The commission recognised, and I recognise, that this is a matter that must be dealt with sensitively. That is why there have been discussions with the Scottish Government, why the First Minister of Scotland has made her position on the issue clear and why Scotland’s Health Minister will meet shortly with women’s groups and interested parties in Scotland as the devolution of abortion progresses.
Angela Crawley (Lanark and Hamilton East) (SNP)
As was made clear in Committee, the Scottish Government have made it clear in no uncertain terms that there are no planned changes to the legislation. On that basis, does the Secretary of State agree that Labour Members undermine their colleagues in the Scottish Parliament by intimating that they cannot legislate on their own matters?
David Mundell
I am sure that the hon. Lady and other Members will have heard me say that I am absolutely satisfied that the Scottish Parliament has the capacity to deal with this issue. Although tonight and on other occasions there have been significant differences between us on what should and should not be devolved to the Scottish Parliament, the basis of my arguments has never been a belief that the Scottish Parliament is not capable of dealing with particular sensitive or difficult issues; it is just that I feel that the balance of responsibilities in the devolution settlement is better served in a different way. I genuinely believe that the balance of the devolution settlement is best served by abortion being devolved, which is consistent with the health and criminal justice devolution in the wider settlement.
Melanie Onn
The Smith commission did not say that abortion should be devolved now, but that a procedure should be put in place in order that it could be considered. Before we make this decision tonight, will the Secretary of State explain what procedure has been put in place and what consultation there has been?
David Mundell
If the hon. Lady looks at the Smith commission report, she will see that it does not say that the devolution of abortion law is in question or should be consulted on. What is to be consulted on is the process of that devolution, and it will be. The UK Government are committed to that approach and I have assured women’s groups in Scotland that I am committed to it. I know that the Scottish Government are committed to that approach, too. The First Minister could not have made her position clearer.
This issue is about the constitutional balance between the United Kingdom and Scotland, and about where this decision is most appropriately taken. The Smith commission came to the clear conclusion that it appropriately lay with the Scottish Parliament. This measure is being taken forward in a measured way. It is almost a year since the Smith commission reported. There will be no change to the legal position on abortion in Scotland simply by this act of devolution.
Mark Menzies (Fylde) (Con)
I agree with the Secretary of State that it is right that we trust the Scottish Parliament on this important issue. It has shown itself to be progressive on issues such as same-sex marriage and has important legislative powers on health and the judicial system, so I urge him to carry on with this measure and ensure that the Scottish Parliament is given the accountability it needs.
David Mundell
I think I have made it clear that simply devolving the power does not mean that there will be a change to the position under the 1967 Act. I am sure we will hear views on that, and we will of course listen to them.
Stephen Kinnock (Aberavon) (Lab)
Does the Secretary of State agree that a woman’s right to choose should be universal?
David Mundell
That is not the nature of this debate. We are debating whether the Scottish Parliament should have responsibility on this issue, and I believe that it has the capacity to make decisions in an informed way. It is becoming offensive to suggest otherwise. When we debate other responsibilities for the Scottish Parliament, we do not do so based on its capacity or the idea that it might fall under undue influence and make the wrong decision.
I think I have made the position clear, but I restate that we will continue to work closely with women’s groups and other interested parties to ensure that the devolution of abortion law is as smooth as possible. As I have repeatedly said, there will be no change simply because of devolution, because the Scottish Government and the First Minister have stated that they do not intend to change the existing provisions.
Several hon. Members rose—
David Mundell
I am afraid I am going to move on to discuss the Crown Estate, another important issue that has been much debated in the context of devolution. Clause 31 allows for the Crown Estate’s Scottish assets to be managed by the Scottish Government, and states that they should receive the revenue from the management of those assets.
Alan Brown
Clause 31(1) actually begins, “The Treasury may make”, which is hardly a ringing endorsement of the commitment to devolve that matter. It may as well say, “Maybe aye, maybe no.”
David Mundell
Obviously I do not accept that analysis. The Crown Estate transfer scheme and the memorandum between both Governments have been published and are in the House Library, and copies are available in the Vote Office. I see that the Scottish Government have already come back with their comments on the proposals. The clause clearly means that the Scottish Parliament will have the competence to legislate for the management of the Scottish assets, and to further devolve powers to local authorities and communities should it wish. I hope that, in accordance with the provisions that Lord Smith set out in the agreement, it will do so.
The clause also provides for the protections envisaged by the Smith commission to ensure that the transfer is not detrimental to defence or other UK-wide critical national infrastructure. Amendments 84 to 95 strengthen the delivery of the Smith commission recommendation and the drafting of the clause. They make clear the policy intent of the clause, including the protection to be included in the transfer scheme relating to electricity charges and the obligation to maintain an estate in land, with the proceeds from any disposal having to be reinvested in the estate.
I have also tabled a number of amendments on equal opportunities. Having engaged with stakeholders and the Scottish Government on the equal opportunities provisions and having reflected on the debates in Committee, we have responded to representations that have been made on how clause 32 might be made clearer. New clause 16 and the consequential amendments 102 to 104 and 97 confirm that Scottish Ministers may, by order, commence and implement part 1 of the Equality Act 2010 in Scotland. That provides for the devolution of socioeconomic rights to the Scottish Parliament.
Amendments 96 and 98 to 101 to clause 32 similarly represent a revised and improved drafting approach. They strengthen the clause on appointments to the boards of public bodies that exercise devolved functions in Scotland, and they make clear that the Scottish Parliament could legislate to introduce protections, requirements and positive measures—including gender quotas—for such appointments to boards of public sector bodies. Amendment 105 to clause 33 is intended to make the purpose, effect and operation of the tribunals provision clearer. It removes ambiguity from the drafting, and more clearly sets out the mechanism by which the management and operation of reserved tribunals will be devolved to the Scottish Parliament.
New clause 17 and consequential amendments 134 and 135 will allow the UK Government to change primary and secondary legislation so that fines, forfeitures and fixed penalties imposed by courts and tribunals in Scotland are required to be paid to the Scottish consolidated fund, and therefore retained by the Scottish Government. That delivers the Smith commission agreement.
The Bill devolves to the Scottish Parliament legislative and Executive competence relating to national speed limits and traffic signs in Scotland. Minor and technical amendments 106 and 136 are required to correct the drafting in clause 37 and schedule 2, and do not impact on powers devolved in that area. Amendment 107 to clause 37 ensures that the Scottish Government are able to use the Traffic Signs Regulations and General Directions 2016 once they come into effect.
The Smith commission agreed that the licensing of onshore oil and gas licences in Scotland should be devolved to the Scottish Parliament. Amendments 111 to 113 and 108 improve the intended functioning of the oil and gas clauses that are to bring about a transfer of legislative competence. Amendment 109 ensures that the competence of the Scottish Parliament over given licences in the Scottish onshore area is not affected by geological processes on the coastline. Amendment 110 clarifies the extent of petroleum access powers that are being devolved in relation to land access for the purposes of searching and boring for petroleum under a licence. Amendment 114 allows existing cross-border licences to be split so that Scottish Ministers are granted administration of all licensed acreage in the Scottish onshore area.
Clause 43 devolves power to the Scottish Parliament over the provision of consumer advocacy and advice in Scotland. Amendments 115 to 128 correct minor and technical errors in the clause and clarify the drafting of the provision that relates to the levy on gas and electricity companies and the postal sector, to fund relevant consumer advocacy. That levy will continue to be raised across the UK, and funds will continue to be apportioned to Scotland.
Amendments 137 to 142 to clause 50 will enable Scottish Ministers to design and implement schemes for reducing fuel poverty in Scotland by imposing obligations on energy providers. The amendments transfer an additional power to Scottish Ministers so that they can set out in regulations the rules for determining the value of any benefit provided under a Scottish fuel poverty scheme, and set different benefit amounts for different categories of eligible consumers. The amendments also remove duplicate requirements on Scottish Ministers, and clarify that the Secretary of State can continue to exercise powers that are not transferred to Scottish Minsters.
Amendments 143 to 154 to clause 51 take into account the debate in Committee. They seek to ensure that costs are clear and equitable, by placing a duty on Scottish Ministers to design the Scottish energy company obligation in a way that should keep the costs of the obligations in Scotland within the share of any carbon emission reduction or home-heating cost reduction target apportioned to Scotland. Technical amendments 129 and 133 are needed to ensure that the member appointed to the Ofcom board by Scottish Ministers has the same functions and responsibilities as other board members.
In conclusion, I am confident that the amendments I am proposing will be seen by objective observers as positive drafting changes that will strengthen the provisions and make clear that the Bill fully delivers the Smith commission agreement in words and in spirit.
Ian Murray
My right hon. Friend did not take it through this place but he was heavily involved in it, and he knows about the issues relating to abortion and the position taken.
Amendment 26 makes it explicit that, among the exceptions to reserved matters on equal opportunities, the power to set gender quotas is being devolved to the Scottish Parliament. The Labour party takes this issue very seriously, and we thank Women 50:50 for helping us with these issues. I also commend amendment 225.
We now have a welfare section in this Bill that is in line with the Smith agreement. Everyone in this Chamber should be incredibly proud of that achievement and now we must move on to the debate about how we use these powers.
David Mundell
I do not want to say too much more at this stage, other than to welcome the fact that, other than in relation to the issue of abortion, to which I shall return, the Government’s proposals have been accepted. I am grateful for that.
In Committee, I said we would listen to sensible proposals made in the context of the Smith agreement, and that is what we have done. That is why I am not persuaded by some of the amendments, particularly those set out by the hon. Member for Banff and Buchan (Dr Whiteford) on the welfare system. They do not relate to areas that form part of the agreement. As we have mentioned on other occasions during this debate, the SNP was of course part of the Smith commission process and it signed up to an agreement that at that point did not seek to devolve tax credits to the Scottish Parliament. What was devolved were extensive powers that allow the topping up of tax credits and other benefits; the creation of new benefits in devolved areas; the topping up of child benefit; and changes to be made to income tax—
Mhairi Black (Paisley and Renfrewshire South) (SNP)
I asked this question of the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions in Committee but did not receive an answer, so will the Minister assure us now that, in the event of the Scottish Government deciding to top up any benefit, it will then not be considered income and clawed back at a later stage when universal credit is being claimed?
David Mundell
The Scottish Government will have to take into consideration all the decisions that they make, because they will be responsible and accountable. I suspect that we will see a change in them. They will move from a position of making uncosted promises to one where they are held to account for where the money is coming from.
I do not agree with the Scottish Labour party’s commitment to put up the taxes of hard-working people in Scotland, but at least it is honest about it. It wants to put up tax to pay for additional benefits in Scotland. That is a fair position for it to adopt, but the Scottish National party has said nothing about how it will deploy these significant new powers.
Once again, in relation to welfare, the focus has been solely on what cannot be done rather than on applying thought and rigour to exactly what can be achieved. Benefits in Scotland can be completely redesigned in areas such as disability and carers’ benefits. They are reserved benefits that the Scottish Parliament can top up. Changes in income tax is another such matter. However, that is not where the thought process is; the thought process is entirely on what cannot be done. As we have heard in the various statements on benefits, it really has been a case of “grievo-max” rather than devo-max.
I know that the right hon. Member for Normanton, Pontefract and Castleford (Yvette Cooper) does not agree with my position on abortion, and that she is minded to oppose this measure. However, if my amendment is carried, I will meet her and any of her concerned colleagues to discuss how we can best proceed to ensure that the matters that she set out do not come to pass. I do not believe that they will. I strongly believe that the Scottish Parliament has the capacity to deal with this issue. There is no constitutional reason why this amendment should not be made, and the Smith commission did indeed recommend that it be done. It said that it should be done sensitively and that there should be a process. I am happy to talk about that process. I know that the Scottish Government are happy to talk about that process and to engage with interested parties. On that basis, I do hope that the House will not divide on these issues.
The Government have set out their amendments—
David Mundell
No, I will not.
The amendments set out by both Labour and the SNP in relation to this group go beyond what the Smith commission proposed. The Government amendments deliver the Smith commission in full. On that basis, I hope that the House will support the Government amendments.
Question put and agreed to.
New clause 14 accordingly read a Second time, and added to the Bill.
New Clause 34
Power to create other new benefits
‘(1) The Scotland Act 1998 is amended as follows.
(2) In Section F1 of Part 2 of Schedule 5, in the Exceptions, after exception 9 (see section [Welfare foods] above) insert—
Exception 10
Schemes which provide assistance for social security purposes to or in respect of individuals by way of benefits and which—
(a) are supported from sums paid out of the Scottish Consolidated Fund,
(b) do not fall within exceptions 1 to 9, and
(c) are not connected with reserved matters (other than matters reserved only by virtue of this Section).
This exception does not except providing assistance by way of pensions to or in respect of individuals who qualify by reason of old age.
This exception does not except providing assistance where the requirement for it arises from reduction, non-payability or suspension of a reserved benefit as a result of an individual’s conduct (for example, non-compliance with work-related requirements relating to the benefit) unless—
(a) the requirement for it also arises from some exceptional event or exceptional circumstances, and
(b) the requirement for it is immediate.
For the purposes of this exception “reserved benefit” means a benefit which is to any extent a reserved matter.
In this exception the reference to schemes supported from sums paid out of the Scottish Consolidated Fund does not include schemes—
(a) in respect of which sums are at some time paid out of the Scottish Consolidated Fund, but
(b) which are directly supported from payments out of the Consolidated Fund, the National Insurance Fund or the Social Fund, or out of money provided by Parliament.”
(3) Schedule 4 (enactments etc protected from modification) is amended as follows.
(4) In paragraph 2, at the end insert—
“(5) Sub-paragraph (3) does not affect sub-paragraph (1) as it applies to an Act of the Scottish Parliament so far as any matter to which a provision of the Act relates falls within exception 10 of Section F1 of Part 2 of Schedule 5.”
(5) In paragraph 3, at the end insert—
“(3) Sub-paragraph (1) does not affect the application of paragraph 2 to modifications which are incidental to, or consequential on, any provision, if it is only by virtue of exception 10 of Section F1 of Part 2 of Schedule 5 that the provision does not relate to reserved matters.”” ..—(Stephen Barclay.)
This amendment creates a new exception to the social security reservation to provide the Scottish Parliament with new powers to create new benefits. It provides competence to legislate for social security benefits the cost of which is to be met from the Scottish Consolidated Fund.
Brought up, read the First and Second time, and added to the Bill.
New Clause 15
Abortion
“In Part 2 of Schedule 5 to the Scotland Act 1998 (specific reservations) omit Section J1 (abortion).” —(Stephen Barclay.)
This amendment removes the specific reservation of abortion in part 2 of schedule 5 of the Scotland Act 1998 thereby devolving legislative competence on the subject-matter of abortion to the Scottish Parliament.
Brought up, and read the First time.
Question put, That the clause be read a Second time.
David Mundell
I beg to move, That the Bill be now read the Third time.
I thank all Members for their participation in the debates that have taken place as the Bill has passed through the House. I believe the Bill has been strengthened by the scrutiny it has received, and the number of positive and constructive amendments that have been agreed to today is testimony to that. I particularly want to acknowledge the work of Bruce Crawford MSP and the Scottish Parliament’s Devolution (Further Powers) Committee, which has proved invaluable. Although I have not agreed with them on everything, I respect enormously their contribution to the Bill’s passage.
I thank John Swinney MSP and the Scottish Government officials for their always courteous engagement in the process. Scotland obtains the best outcome when its two Governments work together. I also thank my own officials and those in other Departments throughout Whitehall for their contributions.
The origin of the Bill was the Smith agreement, and I again pay tribute to Lord Smith of Kelvin and the representatives of all five of Scotland’s political parties for reaching an agreement which represents the new devolution settlement for Scotland. I also pay tribute to everyone who has worked so hard since then to enable us to reach this point today. I sincerely believe that the Bill delivers what the people of Scotland voted for decisively last September: one of the most powerful devolved Parliaments in the world, with the strength and security that come from being part of our United Kingdom.
No individual or party holds a monopoly of wisdom in respect of how the Smith agreement might best be translated into legislation, and the six days of debate that we have had on the Floor of the House have allowed me to listen to a variety of points of view and suggestions for further improvement. The Government have responded with the package of amendments that was presented on Report, and the Bill will proceed to the other place with its provisions clarified and strengthened.
There can be no reasonable doubt that the Bill delivers the Smith agreement in full, and the debate now moves from constitutional arguments to the important decisions that will affect the lives of people in Scotland. Will the Scottish Government create new benefits, or top up existing ones? What kind of schemes to address fuel poverty best suit the particular circumstances of Scotland? Will local communities be given a greater say in the management of assets such as the Crown Estate? How can Scotland’s public sector boards show the way forward for gender equality? Each of those decisions will now form a direct part of Scotland’s vigorous public debate, and each of them will be made in Scotland for the first time.
The Scottish Parliament and the Scottish Government will be more responsible and more accountable to the people of Scotland. That is what the Bill means for Scotland: the vow delivered, and a powerhouse Parliament within a strong United Kingdom. Now is the time for us all to work together to make these new powers a success for Scotland.