Interest Rate Swap Products

Damian Collins Excerpts

Thursday 21st June 2012 Commons Chamber

[Guto Bebb]

That is a key issue. In many cases, the term of the swap is longer than that of the loan, which the Financial Services Authority believes to be evidence of mis-selling.

Evidence about the background to interest rate swaps suggests that banks started to target small businesses from about 2006 onwards. The practice was probably curtailed in 2008-09, although there are a few examples of such products being sold after that. In a number of cases, banks have settled with businesses out of court. My concern is that banks have placed significant gagging orders on those businesses, which stops them explaining the terms and conditions of the settlement.

Existing regulations should have been taken into account when these products were sold. Swaps are financial derivatives covered by section 85 of the Financial Services and Markets Act 2000. They are, therefore, a regulated product and any adviser who tries to sell them has a duty to understand the needs of their customer. That is a key point. A fair, clear and not misleading explanation of the product must be provided to the customer, yet in many of the cases I have seen the information provided was far from satisfactory.

[Damian Collins (Folkestone and Hythe) (Con)]

I, too, congratulate my hon. Friend on securing this debate. Does he share my concern about the experience of Castlewood Hotels in my constituency? It was sold such a product by the bank and told that if it did not accept it, its business could be in jeopardy in future.

[Guto Bebb]

Again, that is an important point. In significant numbers of cases a swap product has been sold to a business as a condition of a loan being made available, so that the future availability of credit was dependent on the acceptance of a swap product. Obviously, a business in need of finance would be persuaded of the need to take up that product in order to receive finance, and that is a key issue.

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[Caroline Nokes (Romsey and Southampton North) (Con)]

I start by adding my congratulations to my hon. Friend the Member for Aberconwy (Guto Bebb) not only on securing today’s debate, but on the immense work he has done on this subject over the past few months.

I do not pretend that the mis-selling of interest rate swap agreements is a huge issue in my constituency; in fact, it has been raised by only a very small number of constituents who are local business owners. For the individuals affected, however, it is a massive issue, and as they contribute to the local economy, provide jobs for local people and use local services to assist with their businesses in the region, the knock-on effect has the potential to be very significant indeed.

It has been reported that RBS and Barclays, two of the UK’s biggest high street lenders to small business, have sold roughly 7,000 of these products between them. I can certainly add Lloyds bank to the list, as one of my constituents has had significant difficulties with that bank, which sold him this product several years ago.

Interest rate swap agreements are highly complex. As one of my constituents pointed out, these are the territory of corporate bankers, but have been sold to chip shop owners, to care home providers, as we have heard, and indeed to landlords. A constituent who approached me is the owner of a company that rents out a significant number of properties in Southampton, largely to the student market. He pointed out that, should his company fail, 1,000 individuals could be turfed out on to the streets of Southampton in the middle of their studies. What redress do these businesses have should it all go wrong?

Fear of the bank calling in the debt has kept many quiet. Micro-businesses have the option of going to the Financial Ombudsman Service, but that is possible only for those with small turnovers employing fewer than 10 people. My affected constituents are not eligible for assistance from the ombudsman, having too high a turnover and too many employees. So they have been forced to consider court action. However, as one of them said:

“how can you sue a bank you need to support you?”

In any case, the maximum redress the Financial Ombudsman Service can award is limited to £150,000, which is scant compensation when one of my constituents assures me that he has been charged an additional £6.1 million on a £3 million loan and he has already made payments into the interest rate swap agreement of over £1 million.

[Damian Collins]

Does my hon. Friend agree that this looks like old-fashioned extortion? Were the banks not simply trying to obtain the maximum possible rate, with the threat that rates might rise even higher unless people took advantage of the product?

[Caroline Nokes]

Let me reply to my hon. Friend by quoting a constituent who said to me, quite seriously, “I would have been better off going to Wonga.”

I welcome the FSA’s decision to review these products, and sincerely hope that the outcome will be assistance for the thousands of small businesses that have been affected. We should not forget that they are the lifeblood of the British economy. As that same constituent said, he is paying £3 million on top of the interest on an £8 million loan. The loan was for only three years, but the swap product was for 10. As he said, if he had not been stuck in the product he would have expanded more, employed more people, and paid more tax to the Exchequer. He also came out with a fantastic remark which really hit home in describing precisely the sort of small business man to whom these products have been sold. He said, “I left school with no qualifications. I learned my maths by scoring darts at my father’s pub. Yet suddenly I am involved in interest rate future, caps, collars, derivatives, curves, flows. All I wanted was a loan.”

My constituent is in no doubt about the fact that the loan to expand his business was dependent on the swap product. He has been quite clear about the position. His bank has been threatening him, telling him not to raise the matter with his Member of Parliament or to pursue the complaint via the courts. Land sales over which the bank has had a charge have been delayed until he makes his intentions regarding court action known to the bank. All the while, his business has been saddled with a swap product which, against the odds, he has managed to service. It has cost him more than £1 million over the last four years, and his business, family and employees have faced uncertainty.

I commend the work of my hon. Friend in pursuing this issue. I have no doubt that, as the motion says, prompt action is needed to ensure that small businesses do not continue to suffer as my constituents have. Their banks must not be allowed to threaten them.

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[Ian Swales (Redcar) (LD)]

I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Aberconwy (Guto Bebb) on securing this important debate and on his excellent work on the matter under discussion.

I am a former finance director of a £1 billion global business, so I am well aware of the benefits of bank services and financial products such as exchange rate hedging, but I am shocked that they are deemed appropriate for small businesses. Like other Members, I have received complaints, and I shall highlight two of them.

Stephen Lilley is a constituent of mine and I believe he is present in the Gallery now—probably. He has given me permission to raise his case. He owns a hardware company in Marske-by-the-Sea, and in late 2006 he bought an interest swap covering 15 years. I have read the telephone transcripts of the conversations between HSBC and the directors of his company whereby the swap was agreed, and they show a clear example of mis-selling.

The directors made it clear that this was their first ever business venture. They wanted loans for a maximum of 15 years and hoped to have them paid off before the end of that period. During a complex discourse on the products, one statement made was:

“The reason we do this rather than doing say an…inclusive fixed rate is that in the future if you want to renegotiate or look at your lending margin, obviously you can’t do that if it’s included as part of the fixed rate”.

Those were apparently warm words. A number of other inappropriate comments were made in the conversation, and no mention was made of the fees being earned by the seller.

The climate is tough for the hardware shop and, in a move that can be described only as bullying, it is now being charged £500 a month for a “relationship manager” who provides no service. I fail to understand the logic of charging a struggling business an extra fee for struggling. Mr Lilley is not a young man and he now faces the real prospect of losing his business and his house, and, as I understand it, still being locked into a financial product that was badly sold. It is difficult for him to fight the bank on which he depends so heavily, and I see it as our responsibility to fight for people in his position.

I would also like to highlight the case of another of my constituents. The case of Mr Roy Myers has been mentioned on the BBC, and it has features common to many of the other cases we are hearing about. Roy owns the outstanding O’Grady’s hotel in Redcar and the Victoria pub in Saltburn. He is not naive; he has owned other pubs and hotels, and formerly had a responsible job in Her Majesty’s Revenue and Customs. He had negotiated a loan and was presented with a base rate swap agreement to sign on the very day when he simply expected to sign for the loan. No proper selling took place and he was given no options. It was never properly explained to him that he was locked in for 10 years and that there could be huge exit costs. Mr Myers had previously bought and sold businesses and paid off loans, and he never expected to be locked in like this because of a financial product.

[Damian Collins]

My hon. Friend mentions that the exit costs had not been properly explained. Does he share my concern about this issue, as my constituent is in a situation where what were called “negligible” exit costs ended up being worth more than 50% of the value of the loan?

[Ian Swales]

I thank my hon. Friend for that comment. He raises an important point that is true of many of the cases we are talking about today.

To be fair to the banks—not a phrase I expect to hear a lot in this debate—I have pointed out to Mr Lilley and Mr Myers that people in their position may have considered a fixed rate term product had it been offered at the time. So some of the loss figures we are now talking about may be a bit misleading, as they can be calculated only with hindsight and, in effect, constitute a one-way bet. Mr Lilley did in fact make small gains through rate hedging in the very early months of his contract, but these products remain toxic. Clear discussions should have taken place at the time as to whether the borrowers wanted variable or fixed rates.

Many small businesses such as those I am discussing are reluctant to challenge their lenders on these specific issues, as they do not want to put their bank facilities at risk. The Financial Ombudsman Service rarely upholds complaints, so their only recourse is a litigation process, which, obviously, serves only to incur more costs. Bankers seem to be working for themselves first and for their clients second. We heard just a few weeks ago about Goldman Sachs referring to its clients as “muppets”. This world of over-complicated products and dodgy selling has to stop.

A small business person should be able to rely on a bank to work in their interests, and not be seen as a sales channel to another part of its organisation. We should not expect business people to be personally expert in these kinds of products, nor should they have to pay separately for a financial adviser. We should also remember that accountants—and I am one—may not be allowed to give advice on these kinds of products unless they are also registered as financial advisers. So these products have clearly been designed to make money for the banks, which, by definition, means extracting more money from the small and medium-sized business sector. Some of these products are no more appropriate for small businesses than they would be for a household mortgage. Banks are surely worried about their reputations, and I have been very happy to name and shame HSBC today. Banks can recover their reputation by dealing constructively and generously with those affected, rather than engaging in continuous and expensive litigation. Special consideration should be given to those such as Mr Lilley, whose arrangement, made in November 2006, would almost certainly have breached the FSA suitability regulations introduced in November 2007. I agree with the hon. Member for Wolverhampton North East (Emma Reynolds) on the urgency of dealing with this problem, given that Mr Lilley’s arrangement is six years old in five months’ time.

I salute my constituents’ bravery in coming forward and hope that more will do so. I hope also that right hon. and hon. Members will support the recently announced FSA investigation. Finally, I hope that the Minister will act swiftly on the FSA’s recommendations and take another step to stop such predatory activity by banks in our vital SME sector.

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[Heather Wheeler (South Derbyshire) (Con)]

I thank my hon. Friend the Member for Aberconwy (Guto Bebb) for securing this debate. The mis-selling of interest rates has affected people in many of our constituencies, including mine. One of my constituents, the owner of a geo-environmental company, wanted to take out a long-term fixed rate product. He wanted a portion of that loan to be paid off as and when he had the capital to spare, with no penalties. He also wanted a period of low interest or interest-only repayments to assist with cash flow as the company embarked on a further phase of expansion. To me, that appears pretty reasonable.

NatWest—a bank that has newly entered this debate—offered my constituent what he thought he was looking for at the time and a product that fulfilled his core requirements. He was given the option of fixing the interest rate by entering into an interest rate swap agreement with the investment banking arm of RBS—that wonderful bank that we have again heard about today. He was given a complicated document but believed that it represented a mechanism for fixing the interest rates. He was given a loan of 1% above base rate but his agreement had no expiry date and, in conjunction with the interest rate swap agreement, provided an effective fixed rate of 6.19% for 10 years.

In January 2009, when interest rates were falling and looked as if they would remain low, my constituent was referred to RBS global restructuring group. He inquired whether he could break the fixed rate interest agreement because it was costing his company dearly. It became apparent, however, that he could do so only if his company incurred a large financial penalty, which at the time totalled £175,000—equivalent to 19.4% of the original loan. A break clause was written into his agreement, but it could be acted on only by NatWest, and the punitive break fee meant it was totally impossible for my constituent to refinance with another bank.

In September 2010 as part of a review of my constituent’s loan, RBS increased the lending margin by 1% to 2%. That increased the interest rate to 7.19%, which made a mockery of the fixed rate that had been promised back in 2007. Interest rates were at an historic low of 0.5%, but my constituent was effectively denied the opportunity of taking advantage because he was locked into his IRSA.

[Damian Collins]

Does my hon. Friend agree that the high cost of such exit arrangements means that the banks are profiteering from small businesses that operate on tight margins, and does not in any way reflect the true cost of the refinancing to the bank?

[Heather Wheeler]

Absolutely; that scandal has emerged from today’s debate.

In January 2012, my constituent was informed that, because his debt to RBS included the fee for breaking the IRSA agreement, the cost of the loan had increased further to a mind-boggling 23.8% of the loan—approximately £215,000. He was also informed that, even if he sold his property to repay the loan in full, the IRSA would still exist, because it was a separate product from the original loan, and that the agreement would last for 10 years. That clearly was not fully explained to my constituent, who runs a small business with a healthy turnover of £2.5 million and employing 30 people. He is not a financial expert; he trusted his banks, both NatWest and RBS, to provide him with advice on a flexible fixed rate product, as he requested.

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[The Economic Secretary to the Treasury (Miss Chloe Smith)]

We have had a very fine debate this afternoon and I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Aberconwy (Guto Bebb) on securing it and moving the motion. He will be pleased to learn that I will leave him a few minutes at the end so that he can complete the job. My hon. Friend the Financial Secretary, who is in Istanbul on Government business, is disappointed to miss the debate, but I shall endeavour to do the best job I can in his stead.

I have listened to and considered carefully what hon. Members have said today and will try to respond to as many Back-Bench points as possible. I suggest that it is not really a day for a great political answer. Instead, I want to talk about some of the detail of what is happening in this instance. To name but a few of the contributions that have been made, we heard a passionate contribution from the hon. Member for Wolverhampton North East (Emma Reynolds) and we heard from my hon. Friend the Member for Staffordshire Moorlands (Karen Bradley), who explained the issue in terms of tea and strawberries—I wondered whether to intervene to ask her what would happen if someone liked tea and strawberries together, but today is a day for much more serious material.

My hon. Friends the Members for Finchley and Golders Green (Mike Freer), for South Derbyshire (Heather Wheeler) and for Ceredigion (Mr Williams) really underlined one of the main points. Through no fault of their own very fine brains, even they found some of these issues hard to comprehend in their constituency surgeries. I think that that is because of some of the complexity of the products available. Perhaps my hon. Friend the Member for Staffordshire Moorlands could explain it to them with the aid of tea to help it all go down well.

The House needs to be reassured that the Government have taken this issue extremely seriously. The FSA, as the independent regulator, is responsible for determining the appropriate regulatory response, but today I can update the House on what the FSA is doing and when it will be doing it by, and I will respond to a few further points that have been made today.

To return to the products, however, I should note that these interest rate products are designed to reduce a business’s vulnerability—in theory—to interest rate fluctuations, but they can be very complex products, ranging from relatively simple interest rate caps to interest rate swaps and, then, to both simple and structured collars. The bulk of those products were sold, alongside loans, to businesses between 2005 and 2008, the trouble being that since then interest rates have been very much lower and businesses that took out such products have found themselves paying much higher rates than the base rate. A growing number of small and medium-sized enterprises have come forward to claim that they have been mis-sold such products.

Another real telling point from today’s debate was the number of times that hon. Members repeated the call for anonymity on behalf of their constituents, and that really brings home the seriousness with which we need to take the subject and, of course, the serious consequences that businesses are facing.

Since the issue first came to light, the Government have been working closely with the FSA and have assisted it wherever possible. The authority, as some Members will know, began its initial survey of the issue back in March, and that initial work pointed to concerns, certainly about the suitability of some of these products for SMEs, and about some of the sales practices involved.

There was evidence in some cases of over-hedging—of the products lasting longer than the duration of the loan they were protecting, to which hon. Members have referred in examples; and in some cases there seemed to be incentives for staff to sell more of the more complex products.

As a result, the FSA agreed to carry out a more in-depth review into alleged mis-selling. That is now well under way, and I shall make the House aware of what I think is a positive point: the FSA will be able to report its findings at the end of this month—at the end of June. I wholeheartedly welcome the review, and the Government are awaiting its conclusions, but I think that hon. Members will welcome those results coming forth at the end of June—perhaps earlier than some had expected, given their comments today.

In taking forward the review, the FSA has gathered further information from banks and carried out more than 100 interviews with small businesses in order to establish for its findings the robust fact base that one would expect. It does require detailed analysis, and I will set out in a little more detail the issues that the FSA’s review is likely to cover.

Under the banking conduct of business sourcebook rules, banks simply cannot sell products that are not appropriate for a customer without warning them, so the FSA, in addition to exploring further the questions on over-hedging and on sales incentives which its initial work revealed, is seeking to establish whether the sales of those products were appropriate for small businesses, as they might not have understood how they would operate. I acknowledge the point, made by some hon. Members today, that we need to recognise, in their words, that some business customers are not sophisticated—and that is absolutely right. If such a situation has occurred, it is a concern.

The Financial Services and Markets Act 2000 already requires the FSA to have regard to the different degrees of risk in different investment, and to the differing degree of experience and expertise that consumers have. We are adding to that in the Financial Services Bill, and that is very important, as hon. Members have said today.

The FSA’s review is also going to establish a clear understanding of banks’ sales practices, including whether they were advised sales or non-advised sales, and whether the downside risks were clearly communicated orally as well as on paper.

The review will also look at break costs, which several businesses suggest were not disclosed to them when they purchased the product, and it will also attempt to establish whether the banks told customers explicitly or otherwise that the hedging product was a requirement of the loan, an issue that I know many hon. Members have raised today.

In answer to some of the key points that have been made today, the desire for banks not to treat adversely or to punish those who make complaints has come up repeatedly, and it is one of the hard-hitting points that will stay in the mind from today’s debate. I share hon. Members’ serious concerns about that; banks should not be able to treat customers unfairly in that way. The examples that hon. Members have been giving do not seem consistent with the principle of treating customers fairly. The Government want to be assured that those making complaints will not be punished as a consequence. When the FSA produces its report, I am sure that we will be able to go into more detail with the evidence in front of us.

[Damian Collins]

If the FSA report finds that the products may have been mis-sold, will there at least be the chance for businesses to break out of the agreements or for there to be a moratorium on payments while individual compensation claims are analysed?

[Miss Smith]

I hear that point, which has been made a number of times today. It is not my place to pre-empt the findings, not least because the FSA is an independent regulator and because the results and evidence have not yet come together.

However, I assure the House that not only will my hon. Friend the Financial Secretary be listening very carefully to that request, but the FSA already has a powerful toolkit to deal effectively with any potential mis-selling. That can include powers to establish industry-wide or single-firm redress schemes, which comes from the Financial Services and Markets Act 2000; to refer the banks to enforcement; to use supervisory measures; and to obtain redress for consumers through the use of restitution powers.

I want to leave enough time for my hon. Friend the Member for Aberconwy to return to this debate. I come back to the point about the SMEs that have been affected; that is the powerful point that has come out today. Hon. Members have spoken deeply about the difficulties faced by small businesses in their constituencies. The Government are helping small businesses in difficulty in other ways: there are HMRC’s “time to pay” arrangements and advice and information through the Business Link website and other far larger points throughout the economy.

I echo the words of the shadow Minister, the hon. Member for Wolverhampton North East. I encourage any business that believes it was mis-sold one of the products to contact the FSA if it has not already done so, and to give as much information as possible about its case. The report is coming back at the end of June, so I advise such businesses to be swift. That will help the FSA to continue to develop its understanding.

The Government are fully aware of the issue. I am grateful to hon. Members present for putting flesh on the bones. I hope that I have provided the House with some reassurance on what the FSA is doing, the range of the FSA’s powers and the closeness with which the Government have worked with the FSA. We must allow the review to run its course, but we should all look forward to its findings.

Amendment of the Law

Damian Collins Excerpts

Thursday 22nd March 2012 Commons Chamber

[Mr David Evennett (Bexleyheath and Crayford) (Con)]

I am grateful to have this opportunity to participate in the Budget debate, in order to highlight the financial and economic issues that are of concern to my constituents, and in particular to raise the topics of families, fairness and the future. I congratulate my right hon. Friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer on his Budget, which I believe is fair, innovative and effective. There are a lot of very good measures in it: tax cuts, help for business, increases in pensions and personal allowances, and investment in infrastructure. That is all good news for our country. For my constituents, the key concerns are the cost of living, keeping their jobs, taxation and dealing with the appalling economic mess left to us by the last, unlamented Labour Government.

This Budget goes a long way towards dealing with the issues facing the United Kingdom, and I believe it will be strongly supported across the country. It is good news for hard-working people on moderate and low incomes. It helps families and businesses, and, most importantly, it encourages aspiration.

Shortly, I shall address families, businesses and taxation, and how this Budget will assist and encourage our economic recovery. Before doing so, however, I want to state that the infrastructure plans announced in the Budget will create jobs and opportunities for businesses and enhance our economy. In particular, I welcome the Chancellor’s announcement of a possible new river crossing in east London. As my constituents and others travelling to and from south-east London know, the Blackwall tunnel is inadequate and congested and still prone to vehicles breaking down on the approach roads or in the tunnel.

[Damian Collins (Folkestone and Hythe) (Con)]

My hon. Friend makes a valid point about the east Thames crossing. That will also be of great benefit to my constituents in Kent.

[Mr Evennett]

I am grateful for my hon. Friend’s support. As the Mayor of London has said, a new crossing at Silvertown is essential. It will enable commuters and business traffic to get to their destinations quicker, and it will relieve the pressures on the Blackwell tunnel. In order to ensure the regeneration of south-east London, such public sector projects and investment are essential, and I welcome the Government’s commitment to look further into this crossing and to support other investment to improve our infrastructure.

I commend my right hon. Friend the Chancellor on his measures on taxation and families. Conservatives instinctively believe in lower taxation, not only because it allows people to keep more of their own money, but because they then have more choice in how their money is spent. Government do not always know best. They have a role to play, but people will spend their own money more effectively; it is not for Government to tell people what to do. Unlike the Labour party, which always believes in increasing taxation, we believe that people who have worked hard should have the opportunities to get on with their lives and careers, and to spend their money as they want. I therefore welcome the Chancellor’s aspiration to raise the personal tax allowance to £10,000 as soon as possible. That is good news for all working families on low incomes.

In government, Labour professed sympathy for working families on low incomes but did little to help them—in fact, Labour hindered. We did not hear anything in the shadow Chancellor’s speech about the failings of his Government. They allowed families to get worse off, and the increase in poverty was greater under Labour. This Government do not believe that people should be allowed to remain on benefits for ever because benefits are more attractive than working and earning. That is unacceptable. We are, therefore, grateful that we are changing the benefits regime and helping people with the tax regime, so that work does pay. That is fundamental.

Under this Government, great progress has been made in the past two years, with personal allowances going up by 25%. This year there is to be another rise and next year, in April 2013, there will be an additional rise in the personal allowance of £1,100. That is a real, positive advance for people on low incomes, allowing them to keep more of their money. I particularly welcome the fact that some 2 million people will no longer pay any income tax; they are on low incomes and they should not be paying income tax. It is the Conservative-led Government—a coalition Government—who are doing this, and I welcome the Business Secretary’s speech, which highlighted what the Government are doing and the logic behind it.

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[Andrew Miller]

Yes, I got the tape measure out. It said: “‘Granny tax’ hits 5m pensioners”. The papers referred to a £3 billion tax raid on pensioners over the next four years, and pointed out that nearly 4.5 million pensioners who pay income tax will lose an average of £83 per year next April and that people turning 65 next year will lose up to £322. As you are in the Chair and know me rather well, Mr Deputy Speaker, I suppose I should declare an interest, as it is my 63rd birthday tomorrow. Whatever the Chancellor says about increasing the income tax personal allowance, a family with children, earning just £20,000, will lose about £253 from this April. Shockingly, he slipped out that £3 billion tax raid on pensioners over the next four years. All this comes from a Government whose economic policies on growth, jobs and the deficit have utterly failed.

Of course, there have to be tough decisions on tax, spending and pay; otherwise, we would not get the deficit down. However, although the restoring of the cuts in the science budget is one of the few measures I agree with, a lot more funding is needed if we are to retain the quality of British science. I agree with Imran Khan, the director of CaSE—the Campaign for Science and Engineering—who said today:

“I suspect the Government realises that the multi-billion pound, 50% cut made to research capital in 2010 simply is not sustainable. Despite difficult times, they are trying to put it right, and it is not going to go unnoticed.

However, simply reversing the cuts isn’t going to be a game-changer for the UK. We need to be far more ambitious if we’re serious about having a high-tech future. The Chancellor should re-invest the windfall from the auction of 4G mobile spectrum, due later this year, into science and engineering.”

The Budget said nothing about that.

[Damian Collins]

Will the hon. Gentleman give way?

[Andrew Miller]

No I will not.

I also agree with the Engineering Employers Federation. Although it welcomed the changes to research and development tax credits, it stated:

“Whilst there are some helpful measures, they fail to send a strong enough signal to growing manufacturers”.

This morning’s Financial Times states that John Longworth of the British Chambers of Commerce said that

“small and medium-sized companies felt the Budget measures would ‘overwhelmingly benefit the biggest businesses’ and were disappointed he did not do more to boost confidence across the economy.”

Finally, as the shadow Chancellor said, the Chancellor’s plan has failed. Trying to raise taxes and cut spending too far has backfired. With his tax cut for millionaires, the Chancellor is piling insult upon injury for millions of families and pensioners across Britain. This is a Budget full of failed promises that will fail the country. I urge the House to vote against it on Monday.

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[Damian Collins (Folkestone and Hythe) (Con)]

We have heard a number of Members today say that the Government have no industrial strategy and no strategy for jobs. I say that they should make that argument to the people who will benefit from the £500 million investment in this country that GlaxoSmithKline announced this morning following the Budget; to the people who will benefit from the 2,000 jobs being created by Nissan in Sunderland and around the country with the support of Government money; or to the clients and employees of companies such as WPP, one of the world’s largest communications networks, which will headquarter in the UK under this Government’s new lower tax regime, instead of Dublin, to where it flew under the last Government.

The Government are setting out a bold and ambitious industrial strategy to bring jobs to this country in the sectors in which we will see the highest levels of growth. That is why I particularly welcome the announcements that the tax credit for production in the video games industry will be brought back and that the film tax credit, which a Conservative Government introduced in the 1990s, will be extended to sectors such as animation and high-end TV production.

It is ridiculous that Julian Fellowes’s new series “Titanic” has been filmed in Hungary, instead of in Belfast, where there is a film production studio in the shipyards where the original ship was built. That shows how our system has taken jobs and investment abroad instead of bringing them here. The changes will help big businesses, but also small animation companies such as Cognitive Media, which is based in Folkestone, in my constituency. It will help in the other creative clusters around the country where such jobs are providing necessary skills and employment. That is part of a strategy, with the Government supporting big investment in centres such as Tech City, where we will fulfil the Chancellor’s ambition to make Britain the technology capital of Europe and a leading player in the world. They will be a major driver for growth for our economy and new jobs in future.

I very much support the Government’s initiative to support the programme championed by Virgin to allow young people who want to set up their own business to borrow money to invest and start up on their own on the same terms as students can borrow money for tuition fees. That will be a great source of jobs for young people and give them the boost they need to get on to the job ladder.

Oral Answers to Questions

Damian Collins Excerpts

Tuesday 6th March 2012 Commons Chamber

[Danny Alexander]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right. The regional growth fund is making an enormous difference across the country, particularly in those regions that are most affected by public spending reductions. Many of those projects are creating jobs and boosting the economy in constituencies such as his. He is right to say that we need to find more ways to get those moneys to smaller businesses, and of course the next round will invite programme bids that can do precisely that.

[Damian Collins (Folkestone and Hythe) (Con)]

T1. If he will make a statement on his departmental responsibilities.

[The Chancellor of the Exchequer (Mr George Osborne)]

The core purpose of the Treasury is to ensure the stability of the economy, promote growth and employment, reform banking and manage the public finances so that Britain, from now on, lives within her means.

[Damian Collins]

Will the Chancellor join me in welcoming today’s report from the east Kent enterprise zone that nearly 1,000 jobs have already been created on the former Pfizer site? What assessment has the Treasury made of the positive impact of tax credits for video game production and high-end TV production in the UK to mirror the success of the film tax credit, which has helped to secure Britain’s place as one of the world’s leading creative economies?

[Mr Osborne]

With two weeks to go to the Budget, I shall not comment specifically on tax policy, but the industry to which my hon. Friend refers has made its representations to the Treasury. It already benefits from the reduction in the small companies tax rate—or, indeed, the corporation tax rate in respect of larger firms—as well as the reforms to research and development tax credits and the introduction of the seed enterprise investment scheme, which will help start-up companies in the creative sector, as elsewhere.

Scottish Football (Tax Liabilities)

Damian Collins Excerpts

Wednesday 29th February 2012 Westminster Hall

[Damian Collins (Folkestone and Hythe) (Con)]

I just want to make a few comments on this important subject. I will not claim to share other hon. Members’ expertise in Scottish football. No doubt, other hon. Members, particularly from Scotland, will speak with a great deal of insight about the situation at Glasgow Rangers football club. However, I think that the hon. Member for Dunfermline and West Fife (Thomas Docherty), in opening the debate, touched on a number of important points that are relevant to football in Scotland and in England and relate to the financial administration of the game—in particular, the football first creditors rule.

There is no doubt that, in the case of Rangers, the losers are the fans of the club and other clubs and businesses to which it owes money. They are the people who have lost out as a result of what has happened. The failure of a club of its size has an impact in destabilising the structure of the league, so in some ways everyone involved in football in Scotland is affected, whether or not they are directly employed by or associated with Rangers football club. The hon. Gentleman set that out very clearly.

I think that there is a big issue to do with the football creditors rule. The caution that I would express about it in relation to Scotland is that it has had a damaging and destabilising effect on the game in England. It cannot be right that when a club fails and goes into administration, its creditors, if they are not within football, might get a penny in the pound. We might be talking about a local business that prints the club’s programmes or a local builder who had worked on its ground. When Leeds United went into administration, the West Yorkshire ambulance service got pennies in the pound or a penny in the pound. However, footballers who are owed salaries and football clubs in different parts of the country that are owed transfer money get their money in full.

The hon. Gentleman made a very good point about ticket sales—money that is supposed to pass directly from one club to the other. He highlighted that particularly well. It is unfair to other creditors of football clubs—community businesses working alongside a club, perhaps employing fans of that club—that they lose out massively.

It would be a good thing for football if clubs had to take a stronger interest in each other’s financial performance when they entered into financial transactions with each other. A club would really have to think, when it sold a player to another football club, “Can this club afford to pay us?” At the moment, clubs know that that risk is guaranteed by the football first creditors rule, so they are more likely to sell players to clubs that cannot really afford them.

The type of discipline that I have described would be good. It might help to bring about something that is badly needed in football in England and Scotland—some deflationary pressure on players’ salaries and transfer fees. That is where the money is going. There has never been more money in football than there is today, yet there have never been so many football clubs failing financially.

[Thomas Docherty]

The hon. Gentleman has been a big champion of football reform. Does he not accept, though, that the sums of money in Scotland are very different from those in England? The reality is that two clubs in Scotland hold 90% of the revenue and, in effect, bully the other clubs in Scotland.

[Damian Collins]

The hon. Gentleman makes a very important point. The failure of Rangers in Scotland has a much bigger market-distorting impact on Scottish football than the failure of Leeds United, Portsmouth or another large club in the English premier league would have, so it is a much more acute problem. That is an area where greater transparency on financial performance and disclosure between clubs would help. However, that is not something that the clubs should be allowed to do on their own. They require help from the governing bodies and, where necessary, from HMRC as well, so that that can be properly policed. I agree that it would be very difficult for smaller clubs in Scottish football to start calling the shots with the old firm. That is a problem, but it is one where the competitions have a role to play.

Where clubs owe money to the taxman, that is a serious matter, as it is for any other business. The hon. Gentleman made that clear in his speech. Businesses in our constituencies—we have all had such experiences in the past year or two—have problems because they are in arrears; HMRC is coming after them for the money; and they ask for help. It is a very difficult situation to be in. Businesses understand that if they owe money to the taxman, it is a serious issue, so how is it that football clubs have been allowed to build up large debts?

When Leeds United went into administration, the taxpayers of the United Kingdom lost £6 million in unpaid taxes. Why was it allowed to get to that stage and to get that bad? HMRC should intervene, but the competition organisers should be keeping an eye on the tax payments and how up to date they are for their clubs. The premier league in England has made some progress with that. It even has a system where clubs can have television money or prize money withheld from them if they owe money to the taxman. That money might go straight to the taxman. The clubs have to understand that they have to pay their bills just like any other business.

It is unfair for the clubs to subsidise spending that they cannot afford by securitising their ticket sales, selling their future gate receipts, borrowing money from their banks until they cannot borrow any more, borrowing money from the local businesses that they engage with and owe money to and borrowing money from the taxman. They cannot keep on borrowing money at every opportunity until there is none left. That has to be stopped, and the tax authorities have a big role in doing so, with the support of the competition organisers. That is one of the reasons why the Culture, Media and Sport Committee, of which I am a member, has recommended that there should be a licensing scheme for football, so that the football authorities can keep an eye on the financial performance of clubs and ensure that they are not getting into too much debt.

There is also the introduction by UEFA of the financial fair play rules. In Scotland, just as in England, there will be many clubs playing in the top division that will have a chance of qualifying for European competitions—certainly the Europa league, if not the champions league—that will want that licence. They will understand that they have to be able to balance their books in the medium term. That will be an incentive to clubs to ensure that their financial performance is better in the long run. We should be putting our own house in order, however, and the competition organisers have a big role to play in ensuring that that happens.

There is a great role for HMRC in ensuring that tax liabilities are paid. There is a role in getting rid of the football first creditors rule.

[Thomas Docherty]

The hon. Gentleman is making a compelling argument, but perhaps I could tempt him to say something about clarity of ownership as well. Part of the issue with Leeds United in particular was the uncertainty over who owned which assets. Will he speak about that?

[Damian Collins]

The hon. Gentleman pre-empts the final thing that I wanted to touch on in my remarks and the subject of my ten-minute rule Bill, which I will introduce on 13 March and which is about the ownership of clubs and assets. It is an important area and one where HMRC could be prevailed upon to help. When Leeds United failed, there was uncertainty over who took over the club’s liabilities. It was taken over by a beneficial trust and the investors in that trust were never made known. There were allegations of a relationship perhaps between FSF, which took over control of the club, and some of the club’s other creditors. That was never known, because we never knew the identity of those investors. It would help football a lot if there was transparency over the ownership of clubs and clubs’ major assets, such as training grounds and stadiums, so that we can see who controls them and where the money comes from.

There have been allegations that certain people who represent the brass plaque of the ownership of the club are not the source of finance for the real ownership of the club. I do not understand how the fit and proper person test can be applied to a club’s ownership if no one knows who that person is in the first place. We do not know who owns Coventry City, who currently play in the second tier of English football. Until last summer, we did not know who the owners of Leeds United were either. That cannot be allowed to continue. Certainly, if clubs are failing and the taxman is losing millions of pounds in revenue, businesses and local communities are losing money because the clubs owe them money and the obscurity of the clubs’ ownership causes further concern and a lack of confidence, that needs to be resolved.

The ultimate way to resolve who owns football clubs—again, HMRC may be able to help us on this—is to understand the source of the finance. People might assume ownership or the ownership might be from a fund that is registered in Nevis and operated in Switzerland. Where does the money come from? HMRC has to look at that routinely. HMRC and football clubs’ banks have to be satisfied that football clubs are not being bought or injected with cash that may have come from uncertain or dubious sources, so that needs to be followed.

I feel that HMRC should launch a retrospective investigation to determine what the source of finance was for Leeds United and who owned the club, so that if there was any uncertainty about the club’s ownership and who was involved in putting in money to take it out of administration, that might be pursued. We have a right to know what happened in that case and the tax authorities may be the only body that can pursue that.

Poor administration of football clubs creates a big debt to society, which communities around the country are paying. We should send a lesson out that we want greater transparency over ownership and greater transparency of finances between clubs and a more responsible attitude from clubs in their transactions with each other, to avoid the big impact that we feel at the time and that we see with Rangers currently of the cost of failure. That is the cost to fans, local businesses and the competitions in which they compete.

--- Later in debate ---

[Pete Wishart]

I am glad the hon. Gentleman mentioned that. He is absolutely right that that is one possible consequence of losing Rangers. That is why we should do all we can to ensure the ongoing survival of Glasgow Rangers football club.

[Damian Collins]

Glasgow Rangers is too big to fail, and they will find a way of restructuring their debts and coming back, but does the hon. Gentleman share my concern that the real long-term losers will be small businesses and other football clubs?

[Pete Wishart]

The hon. Gentleman is spot on. There is, of course, talk and speculation about what happens if Rangers are unable to come out of administration. Indeed, the Scottish press, particularly the sporting press, have a fascination with the old firm, and we read about it almost every day. However, the hon. Gentleman is right that some of the small businesses that are expecting payment from the administrators will suffer a massive loss. That is a real issue, and I am grateful to him for bringing it up.

Football is our national game. All our football clubs play an enormous part in our economic activity and make a real contribution to our communities and constituencies. The Fraser of Allander Institute estimates that the old firm’s economic importance to Glasgow and the rest of the Scottish economy amounts to £190 million. More than 3,000 full-time jobs depend on SPL football, and £200 million is spent on related commercial activities in Glasgow alone. According to the Rangers annual report, the direct economic activity generated by the club is in the region of £56 million.

Most importantly, there is also the issue of what happens to the 331 people directly employed by Rangers. They must be absolutely paramount in our considerations, and I hope some solution is found so that they can continue to serve in their jobs.

This is not, however, just about clubs’ contribution to our economy, important and significant though it is. There is also the value professional clubs have for our communities, and the hon. Member for Dunfermline and West Fife mentioned that. We can all see the infrastructure that exists and the clubs our young people are encouraged to participate in. We know that our football clubs make an immense contribution to our communities. According to the SPL’s 2011 community report, 20,000 people participate in community projects weekly, and SPL clubs spent £8 million on community activity, which is no small sum.

There are also the fans in Scotland. I know the audience for SPL football has diminished, but 3.2 million people still attend SPL games each season, and a further 76 million watch them on ESPN, the BBC or Sky. Football is therefore a big business, which contributes much to our economy and our communities, and we must ensure that we respond to the current crisis with the sensitivity it deserves and requires. Scottish football is in a precarious state, and it remains a fragile product, so it can ill afford to lose one of its major protagonists.

Of course, this is not just about Rangers. Several of our clubs are teetering on the brink of financial collapse and ruin. I just wish they could all be like St Johnstone, which is run so perfectly and effectively by Geoff Brown, its chair. It never gets into debt, it always ensures it looks after its liabilities and it never has a problem with HMRC, but that is not the case with many of the clubs in the SPL. I am thinking not just about Rangers, but I will not mention the other clubs, because we all know which ones are experiencing real difficulties and pressures.

We have seen what happens when clubs cannot meet their responsibilities and liabilities. Dundee and Livingston went into administration. We have also seen one SPL club—Gretna—go to the wall in the past 10 years. It was not a particularly great example, and I doubt whether other clubs would like to replicate its business model.

These are tough times, and gates are falling. We have heard from the hon. Member for Folkestone and Hythe (Damian Collins) about the pressure of football wage inflation and how it must be brought under control. The hon. Member for Dunfermline and West Fife was of course right to mention that SPL football is totally different from the English premier league or first division, and only the wages in the old firm are similar. However, some clubs have tried to replicate what we have seen elsewhere and to buy success by buying expensive players. They have tried to compete with the old firm and they have got into all sorts of difficulties. That is probably one of the reasons why Dundee football club, in particular, experienced the difficulties that led to its going into administration. There is a demand all the time to buy more expensive players, because that is what the market dictates, and clubs are encouraged to fork out money. However, gates are falling, and there is any amount of competition from other activities for the time of constituents, who might otherwise go to watch football games.

We all accept that our football clubs must meet their financial obligations. Everybody in every business must pay their tax—it is as simple as that. They must pay it on time and they must ensure that any business plan is totally predicated on meeting their tax liabilities. However, I am sure I am not the only Member in the Chamber who will have put the case for businesses and individuals in his constituency who have got into trouble over their tax liabilities. I do not know how many letters I have sent to HMRC on behalf of small businesses and people who have got themselves into difficulties. It is absolutely right that people also make representations on behalf of Glasgow Rangers because of its significance to Scottish football and the number of jobs that depend on it, as well as its history and tradition, its success and its value to the SPL.

The club is in a mess. The hon. Gentleman mentioned the current regime, which has been a total disaster—we cannot call it anything other than that. Once Craig Whyte took over its debts, something was always going to happen. He did not have the money to ensure the club could get out of its difficulties. What he did with Ticketus was appalling, and there will now be an SFA investigation into the Ticketus deal. There will also be an investigation to see whether Craig Whyte is a fit and proper person to run a football club, and we will have to see the details. Again, it is the fans who suffer, and the people who work in the club have been the major recipients of all the bad news and all the doom and the gloom.

Right now, the administrator is responsible for running the club. In the next few days, Duff and Phelps expect to announce the first round of job losses, which will first impact on the playing staff. There are outstanding issues of payments to other clubs, and I have heard the representations from Dunfermline football club that it should be paid. The hon. Member for Dunfermline and West Fife is right that money should be paid to clubs that are owed it, and Rangers have no right whatever to retain it. However, the job losses show the real impact that going into administration has on people’s careers and jobs.

The hon. Gentleman talked about the Scottish Government’s role, and they stand ready to offer assistance to anyone affected by job losses. They have said they will do all they can to keep in contact with the administrator and to be available to provide support and assistance if there are job losses. In addition, there is the PACE—partnership action for continuing employment—programme in Glasgow, which has offered to provide any assistance it can if there are job losses. PACE has offered Duff and Phelps assistance almost daily to take things forward, and there have been several conversations to that effect. This is a developing and emerging situation, and Scottish Ministers and PACE are keeping their eye on it.

--- Later in debate ---

[Owen Smith (Pontypridd) (Lab)]

I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Dunfermline and West Fife (Thomas Docherty) on securing an important debate, which has touched on a much wider set of issues than just Scottish football. It covered the importance of football, and football and sporting clubs, as cultural institutions within communities—institutions that help bind communities together. I thought that my hon. Friend’s remarks about Dunfermline, and in particular Cowdenbeath, were deeply informative. I confess I was not aware that Cowdenbeath were known as the Blue Brazil. I assume that that is to do with the shirts, and not the temperature in which they play north of the border; but it could be either, I guess.

Two broad sets of remarks have been made in the debate, and I want to frame mine against that context. I have already mentioned one of the areas covered: the importance of football clubs as cultural and community institutions that are integral parts of communities—aspects of communities that inspire pride, loyalty, aspiration and ambition in individuals, but which also act as standard bearers for those communities in the wider world. I do not think that anyone could deny that Rangers, Celtic—their great rival—and all the great clubs of Scotland have been standard bearers for Scotland in the world of sport and beyond.

Rangers, of course, are a great Scottish club, and the one that prompted today’s debate. We heard a bit of their 140-year history, and about the nine great championships that they won on the trot in Scotland, equalling, I believe, the Celtic record. I was not aware, until I started looking at this subject, that they are also the club that has won more national championships than any club in any national football league in the world. That is a measure of the club’s success. However, what we cannot understand by looking at the names inscribed on trophies and trophy walls in such clubs is the wider, deeper, historical, cultural and sporting significance of the club. Anyone who has been to Ibrox, as I have, as a great sports fan—though a Welshman, of course—knows the importance that the community attaches to it. It is right that we should be discussing the issue today, and framing our remarks in that context.

The other broad set of remarks on the sporting front was about the role of money in sport, and football in particular, as well as about ownership, the transparency of football club financing, and the sustainability of clubs in a world where money seems to be the prime driver, despite all those other—in many respects far more important— cultural, historical and community values associated with the role of the club. That is something that I, as a Welshman and a sports fan, feel is significant for a different code of football—rugby football. We have similar issues with the game in Wales. I agree with the hon. Member for Folkestone and Hythe (Damian Collins), who made some remarks about the necessity for greater transparency about finances. He also said some things, to which I hope the Minister will pay attention, about the role of HMRC and the Government in seeking greater transparency in finances, ownership structure and the potential pitfalls and difficulties that clubs may encounter, in rugby and of course football. Clubs are businesses, yes; but they are more than just businesses.

However, in that context of clubs as businesses the role of HMRC is simple. Its job is to collect the taxes that are due in the appropriate volume and at the appropriate time. It is not often that I or other hon. Members quote judges; perhaps judges would feel that we do not do so approvingly. However, Lord Justice Mummery, in a recent tax case at the Court of Appeal, said rather appositely that

“tax is a contribution towards the costs of providing community and other benefits for the purposes of life in a civil society”.

That is a phrase that would have fallen, perhaps not as eloquently, but certainly as easily, from my lips. Tax is important to the wider community just as those football clubs are.

It is in those two contexts that I place my remarks. Individuals and businesses, however humble or, in the case of Rangers, mighty they are, need to pay their taxes. Therefore it is a matter of great regret to me that Rangers have not paid the £9 million in taxes that HMRC has said is outstanding for PAYE and VAT. That is why Rangers have gone into administration, which we deeply regret. As I understand things, HMRC is also looking at whether there may have been instances of tax avoidance. I am sure that the Minister will take great care over that, given his and my deep and continuing concern about tax avoidance. I know, in particular, that HMRC is interested, in the Rangers context, in the use of employee benefit trusts. There are several investigations in progress about EBTs, and, as I understand the matter, their use for payment of individuals working for Rangers, including players, plays a part in the non-transparency of the financial affairs. I will not go into further detail because I cannot: we do not have the detail that would make further comment possible. However, I should like assurances that the Minister is making himself certain that he understands, to the extent that he can, given the arm’s length nature of HMRC, the detail and complexity of the issues involved. I also ask him to consider the wider cultural set of understandings and sensitivities that HMRC needs to bring to bear in this case.

One of the other issues that has clearly come out of this debate is the importance of local knowledge and local understanding—the rootedness of Rangers in the local community. Under the current Government, in particular, and under the last Government, there has been a reduction in numbers of local HMRC staff. That reduction is being sped up under the current Government, with 10,000 more HMRC staff due to go before the end of the spending period; it was announced in January that 4,000 or so staff would go. Given that reduction and the potential loss of local knowledge, is the Minister certain that those people in HMRC who are dealing with Rangers in Scotland will understand the cultural context and have the requisite sensitivity to appreciate both the financial nexus locally—the interconnectedness of clubs and businesses that surround Rangers, and of course the connection between Rangers and the wider Scottish professional football league, which, as we have heard from hon. Members, is a crucial connection—and the cultural significance of Rangers for the local community?

Given the Minister’s slightly arm’s-length relationship with Revenue and Customs, has he been briefed in detail about Rangers, to the extent that he can be briefed about the issue? Does he feel that he is fully on top of the issue? Does he understand—I am sure he must—the importance of Rangers to the wider community and the wider sporting fraternity in Scotland? Is he certain that the HMRC people dealing with Rangers have the requisite expertise?

In closing, I will say a few things about the issue that I think is at the root of many of the problems that we have in football; there may be particularities around Rangers connected with the takeover of the club by Craig Whyte and the way that the club’s business has been managed since May 2011, but Rangers are not a unique case. The root cause of the problems that football clubs, rugby clubs and other sporting institutions across the length and breadth of this land are facing is to do with the role of money and the commercialisation—the commodification—of sport, whereby players and clubs are bought, sold and traded in a global marketplace that Governments in this country and elsewhere seem to have little control over, and perhaps they also have too little insight into the financial machinations and the rationale for the changes that happen. But if those changes come about, especially if they come about as dramatically as they have done with Rangers, and if they lead to the potential loss of great institutions that are of such cultural and financial importance to their local communities, Governments need to think about the extent to which they must improve their insight into those sporting institutions and those businesses, and consider their particularities. I hope that the Minister will comment on that issue too.

Finally, I will make what is perhaps a personal point. I echo the plea made by the hon. Member for Folkestone and Hythe that we should look at alternative models of ownership for football clubs and that the Government should also become engaged in a discussion about those alternative models. In my capacity as a constituency MP, I have been working with Pontypridd rugby football club and other Welsh rugby clubs to look at FC United of Manchester, which is a fan-owned football club with extremely transparent structures and financial arrangements. Those sorts of arrangements may provide the key for the Government when they think about how to frame policy, not only at HMRC but more widely across government, that will help to ensure there is a greater degree of transparency in ownership, management and—crucially—sustainability for institutions that are not simply sporting institutions or businesses but, of course, a vital part of their local community.

[Damian Collins]

I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for picking up on something that I said. I wanted to clarify that although there is a role for HMRC, before HMRC becomes involved there is a role for the competition organisers to act as whistleblowers and bring in the relevant authorities if they think there is a problem. The competition organisers should be the first port of call and then there should be recourse to a higher authority if they cannot sort out the problem themselves.

[Owen Smith]

Again, I agree with the hon. Gentleman on that point. Clearly, there is a role not only for the authorities but for the clubs themselves—indeed, for the sport itself—to think about both the sport’s sustainability in the long term and the extent to which money is quite often eroding the ability of local clubs to represent a local community, whether that community is in Leeds, Pontypridd or, as in the case of Rangers, Glasgow. These clubs were not created for professional or financial benefit; they were created as part of community representation.

HMRC needs to reflect on that point when it deals reasonably, sensibly and even-handedly with those clubs, as it professes to do with all of the individuals and institutions with which it works. We have all encountered instances of individuals feeling that HMRC is not dealing with them even-handedly. I am sure that the Minister will want to assure us in a moment that HMRC always deals even-handedly with institutions and individuals. However, in this instance—a case in the public eye that is of such enormous importance, not only to Glasgow but to Scottish life in general and indeed to the representation of the UK on a wider, even global stage—I am also sure that he will want to make certain that HMRC painstakingly looks at the wider financial and cultural disbenefits of Rangers ever collapsing, and ensure that in collecting the tax, as it must indeed do, it understands that it must also make sure that that situation does not happen.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Gauke]

The working assumption is as I have said, and as is in the public domain. The hon. Gentleman will be aware that there is redeployment within that, so that there are additional staff dealing with tax evasion. There is capability to reduce the number of staff working in processing, where the use of new technology can substantially reduce the need for manual work.

I cannot comment on the case of Rangers specifically, but I assure the hon. Member for Dunfermline and West Fife that HMRC is working with the administrators, alongside other creditors, to reach the best solution for the public purse and the club. We have heard how Rangers going out of business would be a disaster for Scottish football. The purpose of administration is to save the club and to ensure that creditors get as much as possible.

[Damian Collins]

On a point of principle, does my hon. Friend agree that it is wrong, when a football club goes into administration, for HMRC and other creditors to get paid only after all football debts have been settled?

[Mr Gauke]

As we have heard in the debate, that is a matter more for the English arrangement. There is currently a court case on the issue. I have a lot of sympathy with my hon. Friend’s view. There seems to be unfairness, and as I said, there is litigation on the matter.

The debate has been valuable, and I thank the hon. Member for Dunfermline and West Fife for securing it and raising the issues. There are constraints on what I can say, both publicly and privately, although I will always be happy to have a discussion with the hon. Gentleman. However, the constraints of taxpayer confidentially apply to me as much as anyone else, so I am not given all the information. The debate has been useful, and I thank the House for allowing us to hold it.

The Economy

Damian Collins Excerpts

Tuesday 6th December 2011 Commons Chamber

[Damian Collins (Folkestone and Hythe) (Con)]

Throughout the debate this afternoon we have been asked to consider that the debt situation that we are in is not as bad as it seems and that we can spend money that we do not have to try and get out of it. That argument lacks any credibility with the money markets.

[Helen Goodman]

That is not what I said.

[Damian Collins]

The hon. Member for Bishop Auckland (Helen Goodman) is speaking from a sedentary position. I shall come to her remarks, which are pertinent to my constituency, particularly her comments on the habitats regulations and how they impact on the local economy.

Opposition Members have put to one side the seriousness of the debt situation. The other issue that has not been spoken about at all—certainly not by the right hon. Member for Edinburgh South West (Mr Darling) or by the shadow Chancellor, the right hon. Member for Morley and Outwood (Ed Balls)—is the underlying competitiveness of the economy. When we look at the debt situation and the world economic crisis, which are grave and severe, we should also consider that our economy may not be as fit and competitive and as able to grow the sort of jobs that we will need in the future as we thought it was.

Statistics showing how this country has fallen behind in the competitiveness league tables published by the World Economic Forum are often brushed aside. From being seventh in 1997 when the Conservative party left office, we fell to 13th last year and are 10th now. That means that in 1997 we had the most competitive economy in the European Union. We find ourselves today behind Sweden, Finland, Germany, the Netherlands and Denmark on competitiveness.

On the broader question of infrastructure, which is so important to the competitiveness of our economy, we find that Britain lies in 28th position, according to the latest figures, not rubbing shoulders with France, which is third, or Germany, which is 10th, but instead between Saudi Arabia and the Czech Republic.

[Sheila Gilmore]

I am fascinated by the comparisons that have been given. Virtually all of the first group of countries that the hon. Gentleman mentioned have a very large public sector and a very comprehensive welfare system. It would appear that they have a competitive economy as well. Perhaps we should be looking more to the Scandinavian model.

[Damian Collins]

The hon. Lady will be pleased to know that we are also behind Singapore, the United States and Japan, so there are more countries ahead of us than there used to be, and more than there should be. When we consider trying to create jobs in the economy, Opposition Members seem wilfully to ignore the fact that our competitiveness in an increasingly competitive world matters. To them, competitiveness is not worth talking about and is irrelevant to creating jobs. If we are serious about doing what President Clinton has called getting back in the future business—his criticism of the US economy can be applied to the UK economy over the past 10 to 15 years—we must recognise that we have not invested as we should have done to make our economy as competitive as it should be.

[Tom Blenkinsop (Middlesbrough South and East Cleveland) (Lab)]

The common denominator in all the European countries to which my hon. Friend the Member for Edinburgh East (Sheila Gilmore) alluded is their manufacturing base, and Germany, Japan and China are of course also manufacturing surplus economies. Britain used to have such an economy, until 1979.

[Damian Collins]

I am not sure what the hon. Gentleman’s critique is of the party that was in power for 13 years and delivered these statistics. The point I made at the beginning of my speech is that after 18 years of Conservative Government Britain’s competitiveness in Europe was much higher than it is now. I do not know what sort of indictment he finds after 13 years of Labour Government, but it sounds pretty damning to me. The hon. Member for Bishop Auckland talked about the habitats regulations, which I will move on to because it is an important point. She was slightly dismissive, but I do not think that she meant to be.

[Helen Goodman]

No, you are dismissive.

[Damian Collins]

She was very dismissive of the significance of the review the Chancellor announced last week on whether the habitats regulations are being used to hamper growth and business development and whether they are being unfairly and unreasonably applied. A particularly pertinent case in my constituency is whether Dungeness nuclear power station in Kent should be allowed on the list of new nuclear power sites, and I have written to the Chancellor to ask him to give it special consideration in the review. There is a huge amount of local support and there are two nuclear power stations there already.

Land was set aside for the creation of a third power station in the 1960s, most of which was disturbed during the building of the first two. The land is within a special protected area next to a Ramsar site that gives special protection not to butterflies, but to vegetation that grows on the shingle banks and to birds. The bird sanctuary was created largely after the building of the existing power stations. The area of development for the new nuclear power station is less than 1% of the protected area, so it would be difficult to claim that building it would damage the integrity of the whole site or destroy the habitats totally. They remain within a large, protected and conserved area and will be protected.

Nevertheless, based on Natural England’s interpretation of the habitats regulations, it was recommended to the Government that a third power station should not be built on the site, and that is the only reason why it cannot be built. It would create thousands of jobs during the construction phase and 500 permanent jobs for its operation. It would be an incredibly important investment, and that is an example of how the interpretation of some of these regulations is impeding growth and investment in our economy. The power station would be built not on a greenfield site in a protected area, but next door to two existing power stations and on land that was set aside for the purpose. I obviously feel strongly about this example because the new power station would help my constituency directly, but it would also be a new energy source in an area of high demand in the south-east of England, close to south-east London.

Another local example is Lydd airport. Extending or building new regional airports is a controversial issue. In my constituency the local council decided some time ago to approve a planning application to expand the airport. There had been a previous public inquiry on that in the 1990s, which had lapsed, so the process has to be gone through again. A private developer who is willing to invest money with the support of the local council, which approved the planning decision, is being put through a costly and lengthy process, wasting hundreds of thousands of pounds, with the prospect of possible judicial review at the end. That is also because of the way the habitats regulations have been interpreted, and during the course of the most recent planning inspector’s inquiry many of the objections were set aside. It is frustrating that these rules and regulations are hampering investment and growth.

[Angela Smith]

I thought that the hon. Gentleman’s party was going to form the greenest Government ever.

[Damian Collins]

The hon. Lady seems to think that there is something incompatible between sensible investment in growth that respects environmental regulations and having no jobs or investment at all. I think that that is possible in this area. The contention in my constituency and those of many hon. Members is that the rules are being applied in a way that restricts growth and investment, largely from private investors and operators, where it is really needed, and that is unacceptable.

The regional growth fund is a big help for constituencies, such as mine, where extra support is needed to attract investors to create new jobs. That is certainly something we welcome in east Kent. Another point about infrastructure investment, which I touched on at the beginning of my remarks, is the importance of the Government’s commitment to invest in broadband and improve the extent of mobile phone networks and coverage. I was pleased to hear in the Chancellor’s statement that, thanks to the extra £150 million that has been made available for new masts in rural areas, the coverage target for mobile operators is now 99%, rather than the 95% target in the last Parliament. That is good news for people in rural communities who are excluded from current coverage and something we should welcome. It is an important investment in our infrastructure for the future.

Fuel Prices

Damian Collins Excerpts

Tuesday 15th November 2011 Commons Chamber

[Mr Reid]

I certainly agree with my hon. Friend.

There has always been an environmental argument for higher fuel prices, in order to persuade people to use public transport rather than a car. That argument works fine in a city with plenty of bus and train services, but it falls down completely in a rural area, and particularly in a remote rural area such as Argyll and Bute, where in places there is a bus service only on school days. That might be okay for getting schoolteachers to and from work, but it is no good for anyone who needs to be at work outside school hours. The advantage of road user pricing would be that more could be charged for driving on city roads, with a much lower price for driving on a remote rural road. The problem with fuel duty is that it is a blunt instrument, in that the same level of duty is charged in all parts of the country, irrespective of whether public transport alternatives exist or not.

[Damian Collins (Folkestone and Hythe) (Con)]

Will my hon. Friend give way?

[Mr Reid]

I am sorry; I have used both my interventions.

To go back to the point made by the hon. Member for Na h-Eileanan an Iar (Mr MacNeil), I was delighted when the Government announced their intention to pursue a pilot scheme whereby there will be a 5p a litre fuel duty discount for those on many of the country’s islands, including all those in my constituency. That reduction will go part of the way towards removing the price differential between fuel on the islands and fuel on the mainland. I hope that the scheme will be up and running soon, and I ask the Minister to give us an update at the end of the debate on how the negotiations are going in Europe. I am sure that the pilot scheme for the islands will be successful; if it is, I would like it to be extended to remote parts of the mainland. Operating a rural filling station is clearly not a profitable business these days. On the Kintyre peninsula, two of the five filling stations that the area had at the start of the year have closed.

There was a time when it could be argued that high fuel taxation was needed to discourage people from driving and polluting the environment, but market forces have already achieved that. The environmental argument for high fuel duty is not sustainable in the present circumstances. The high price is already discouraging people from driving, and they are making only journeys that are absolutely essential. Changing people’s behaviour is possible only when public transport alternatives are available, which is simply not the case in the highlands and islands.

I was also delighted when the Government abandoned Labour’s fuel duty escalator in the Budget, introducing the fuel duty stabiliser instead and bringing down the fuel duty because the price was so high. The Government have scheduled a fuel duty increase for January, because it was hoped at the time of the Budget that prices would have decreased by then. Prices show no sign of coming down, however, so I hope that the Government will listen to everyone who has signed the motion and spoken in the debate, and not proceed with the January fuel duty increase. The price of fuel adds to the price of everything in a rural area. The high cost is holding back economic recovery, so anything that the Government can do to bring the price down would be greatly welcomed in all rural parts of the country, and particularly in the highlands and islands.

--- Later in debate ---

[Martin Vickers (Cleethorpes) (Con)]

This is a vital debate that affects every household in the country. As an officer of the all-party group on fair fuel for motorists and hauliers, I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Harlow (Robert Halfon) on securing the debate, and the Backbench Business Committee on recognising its importance, particularly as the call for a debate was supported by an e-petition—a valuable resource that the Government must be congratulated on introducing. This is not an anti-Government motion; I and other hon. Members who have signed it recognise the reality of the situation. Let us be honest: it is not the ideal time to suggest anything that will reduce the Government’s income streams. We accept that we are in a financial black hole, but I pay tribute to the Government’s handling of the nation’s finances.

[Damian Collins]

Does my hon. Friend agree that something that would increase the amount in the nation’s coffers and would be good for the haulage industry is the introduction of a levy on foreign lorries, which do not pay any UK taxes? That is particularly galling for hauliers in my Kent constituency, who pass by them on our motorways, knowing that they have made no financial contribution to them at all.

[Martin Vickers]

I entirely agree with my hon. Friend. My constituency, which I shall come on to, is another centre for the road haulage industry. It, too, would welcome such a proposal.

Unemployment in my constituency is above the national average, and incomes are below the national average. Much of the available work is seasonal, and jobs can be many miles away. For many people, travel costs are compounded by the Humber bridge tolls, but that is a debate for another day. My constituency not only includes the premier resort on the east coast, also known as Cleethorpes, but the industrial and port complex on the Humber bank, including oil refineries, which are major employers. Indeed, they are good employers that provide the area with much of its wealth, but today I am speaking for my constituents, who are finding travel costs an increasing burden.

My constituency is a major centre for the road haulage industry, which, needless to say, suffers from the present levels of tax and duty on petrol and diesel. That, coupled with the fact that there are many small towns and villages in the vast, rural areas that are a feature of Lincolnshire, means that people do not live close to their place of work or to the essential services that they need to access. Walking and cycling are not realistic alternatives.

Motoring taxes are a greater burden for people living outside major conurbations. The Countryside Alliance has produced figures that show that people in rural areas spent £1.34 per week more in petrol at the beginning of this month than they did at the beginning of the year. They also draw attention to the fact that an-above average number of low-income groups in rural areas are car owners, and that accounts for a much greater proportion of their income. The people I represent think that paying 60% of the cost of a litre of petrol in tax and duty is too much—it is unfair. I have said before in the Chamber that it is a risky business for Governments to talk about fairness, because it is human nature for someone to regard as fair what is beneficial to them, but to regard something as unfair if it benefits someone else.

What people do regard as unfair is the fact that, based on the most recent figures available, £31 billion per annum is collected in tax and duty. Total annual expenditure by the Department for Transport is only £23 billion, so they regard that as unfair.

Amendment of the Law

Damian Collins Excerpts

Thursday 24th March 2011 Commons Chamber

[Damian Collins (Folkestone and Hythe) (Con)]

To listen to some of the speeches of Labour Members one would think that the debate about the prosperity of hard-working families and individuals is somehow totally separate from the debate about reducing the deficit and getting our country’s finances back into balance. The two, of course, are intrinsically linked. We cannot have long-lasting peace and prosperity for our people unless we live within our means. The Government are no different from any business, any family or any household in that regard.

In his opening remarks, the shadow Chancellor wanted to take us back to the period in the run-up to the last Budget. The forecasts coming from the City of London about British Government debt and the state of our economy spoke of a dire situation. I am not talking about only forecasting companies and organisations, some of which were criticised earlier, but organisations that have skin in the game, so to speak, whose job is to advise investors.

The managing director of one such company, PIMCO, which is one of the world’s largest fund management companies and also the employer of the shadow Chancellor’s brother, said in the run-up to the last Budget that British Government debt was

“resting on a bed of nitroglycerine”.

He published a chart of a “ring of fire” in which Britain appeared alongside other countries such as Ireland, Portugal and Mexico that have terrible problems with their debts. That situation, however, has been transformed by this Government’s policies. Everyone in this country should be glad about that; we will reap the rewards from that change in the future.

Household debt has been mentioned. Anyone looking at the Red Book can see that levels of household debt rose continuously during the 13 years of the last Government. That problem was driven by unsustainable levels of credit, with which this Government have had to deal, as it was an underlying problem in our economy.

Income tax has also been touched on. Like all Government Members, I welcome steps to take the poorest people and families out of income tax altogether. More than 1 million people have been taken out of it. We all know that one of the greatest stealth taxes pushed by the last Government was the failure to keep the income tax thresholds moving in line with inflation, so millions of people were paying taxes at higher rates and levels than they otherwise might have done. This Government have done something to address that.

I want to say a little about the plan for growth. Like many other Members, I take a keen interest in the enterprise zones proposed in the Budget. My part of east Kent contains pockets of considerable deprivation in national terms as well as in comparison with the rest of the south-east of England. Along with colleagues, I will use my local enterprise partnership to lobby for the creation of an enterprise zone in our area.

One of the aspects of enterprise zones that interests me most is that areas will keep the uplift in business rates generated by the zones to reinvest in their communities. A White Paper on local growth published last year by the Department for Business, Innovation and Skills proposed giving councils more powers and more incentives to generate greater business activity in their areas, and to keep that business rate uplift to reinvest in their communities. Local authorities throughout the country, whether or not they end up being part of enterprise zones, may be able to develop their own business plans for local growth. There is the potential for mini and micro enterprise zones in every area, or even on every high street, in the country.

I also welcome the announcement of incentives for local authorities and planning bodies to promote growth and increased business activity in their areas. During Question Time this morning, I asked the Secretary of State for Energy and Climate Change whether that announcement would apply to the national policy statement on energy, on which the Department is currently consulting. Nuclear power stations are deemed to be part of the national infrastructure rather than a matter for local authorities, but they can provide considerable economic benefits, and I have been campaigning for a new nuclear power station at Dungeness in my constituency. There is considerable economic deprivation in that part of Kent, which is part of an economic zone that also includes Pfizer’s Sandwich plant. The establishment of a new power station at Dungeness would boost the local economy and create thousands of high-skilled jobs, and if it can be achieved through the measures in the Budget, it will be greatly welcomed by my constituents.

The Budget also contains measures to boost the creative economy. The Select Committee on Culture, Media and Sport, of which I am a member, has been considering the funding of the arts and heritage, and our report will be published next week. It was completed before the Budget statement. I am particularly encouraged by the measures to incentivise private giving through legacies and gift aid, which will benefit charities to the tune of hundreds of millions of pounds. I believe all Members will welcome that. The Budget also provides for breaks for smaller businesses in the creative sector. A number of Members have referred to the measures to increase investment in small businesses. Many creative and high-tech businesses, such as those involved in the digital economy, are small and entrepreneurial. My hon. Friend the Member for East Surrey (Mr Gyimah) spoke eloquently about the benefits that the Budget provides for such businesses.

I also note from their paper “The Plan for Growth” that the Government intend to relax the restrictions on the performance of live music, especially in smaller venues. There has been considerable debate in the music industry about the restrictions introduced by the last Government in the Licensing Act 2003, which made it harder for people to organise live events by imposing more regulation and costs. The Government will introduce measures to make the position easier not just for live musical performances but for theatre and cinema, and I think we can all welcome those as well.

This was a Budget for growth, featuring a series of bold plans not only to make some of the poorest people in the country wealthier by reducing their income taxes, but to increase investment in smaller companies and the micro-economy to benefit people and businesses throughout the country and particularly in my constituency.