Conduct of the Chancellor of the Exchequer

Chris Vince Excerpts

Wednesday 10th December 2025 Commons Chamber

[Chris Vince (Harlow) (Lab/Co-op)]

On the topic of the NHS, the point I made in the previous debate is really important. The investment in the NHS is not just an investment in buildings; it is an investment in people, including working people. I have lots of people in my constituency who are self-employed—sole traders, as we call them. Does my right hon. Friend agree that those people having to wait years for an NHS appointment is bad for the economy and bad for their pockets?

[James Murray]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right that although improving the NHS is a clear priority, because of all of our experiences and because of our reliance on it to keep ourselves and our families healthy. Investing in the NHS is also an economic investment, because people being out of the workforce due to ill health is a serious drag on our economy—that is the situation we inherited from the previous Government. Our investment in the health service and our desire to get the NHS back on its feet is the right thing to do, not just for families across the country but for economic growth.

--- Later in debate ---

[James Murray]

I think the hon. Gentleman is incorrect in what he said. He said that I may have implied the premature publication was deliberate; I certainly did not. It is none the less a serious matter, which is why we are responding to it with the commensurate seriousness that it deserves. We know that the OBR rightly took responsibility for this mistake, and soon afterwards—while we were discussing the matter at these Dispatch Boxes last Monday—its chair, Richard Hughes, resigned. That, of course, is a matter for Mr Hughes, and is his decision. The Chancellor wrote to him to thank him for his professionalism and dedication. Many Members and I have made clear our gratitude for his work as a public servant. Nonetheless, it was a serious breach, and the Government are acting with seriousness in response.

[Chris Vince]

I read the OBR report with interest. One of its recommendations that caught my attention was this:

“We recommend that the process for publishing the EFOs…should immediately be removed from the locally managed website and conducted in an environment more appropriate to the nature of the task”.

May I ask the Chief Secretary, or his Treasury colleagues, to find out whether “immediately” means that that has been done?

[James Murray]

My hon. Friend is right to point out that the OBR’s report contains a series of recommendations. It was, in fact, published within a few days of the premature publication. We are acting on its recommendations, including the recommendation that we should determine whether this has happened before, at previous fiscal events. While the OBR indicated that it might have happened earlier this year, at the time of the spring statement, it did not look into previous fiscal events, either under this Chancellor or under Chancellors in the last Government. We are looking into that to find out what happened.

More widely, beyond the EFO and the OBR, we put the utmost weight on Budget security, as I told the House last week. That is why, as I have told the House, a leak inquiry is under way, with the full support of the Chancellor and the whole team at the Treasury. In addition, the permanent secretary to the Treasury will conduct a review of its security processes, which will inform future fiscal events. The Budget security review will happen in the new year, and we will publish the outcome once it has concluded. More immediately, however, while recognising the seriousness of what happened with the OBR’s forecast, we remain fully committed to working with an independent OBR, and we recognise its vital role as a core part of our fiscal framework. The Government will soon launch a competitive external recruitment process to appoint a new chair, subject to the consent of the Treasury Committee. In the meantime, Professor David Miles and Tom Josephs will jointly lead the OBR until the new chair is in place.

I am happy to come here every day to explain the decisions that we took in the Budget in the interests of the British people. It is clear that the Conservatives do not want to talk about £150 off energy bills, freezes in prescription charges and rail fares, our investment in our NHS, and the fact that we are cutting debt. They do not want to confront the fact that this is a Budget that not only delivers for Britain, but does so in challenging times. It is a Budget that invests in Britain, supports the NHS, helps people with the cost of living, and gets our debt and borrowing down. It is a Budget delivered by a Chancellor who takes challenges head-on, makes the right decisions for our country, and meets the priorities of the British people. It is a Budget from a Government who will not let Britain’s future be defined by the failures of Governments past. This is a Budget that we are proud of, and we reject the Opposition motion.

--- Later in debate ---

[Chris Vince (Harlow) (Lab/Co-op)]

It is a pleasure to speak in this Opposition day debate. I would say that it is the first time I have spoken in a while, but I did so about two hours ago. [Interruption.] I am already getting heckled.

I thank both my right hon. Friend the Chief Secretary to the Treasury and the shadow Chancellor for their different but equally engaging styles of beginning a debate. I was a little disappointed the shadow Chancellor did not give me any Shakespeare quotes, but he did refer to Dickens at the end.

[Gareth Snell]

On Dickens, whom the shadow Chancellor mentioned, Mr Bumble, a minor parish official, was described as having

“a great idea of his oratorical powers and his importance”.

Does that suggest to my hon. Friend anyone in the Chamber?

[Chris Vince]

I thank my hon. Friend, but I must disagree with him, because my next point was to say, in all sincerity, that I am a little bit disappointed with the Opposition motion, which I feel is particularly targeted at an individual. I recognise that the motion is about the Chancellor’s position and does not name her, so there is an attempt to talk about the role that she holds, rather than the individual. However, I just do not like the way that the motion singles out a particular person. I think it could have been worded in a way that made it more about the Budget process—but that is my view. I say that because I feel very strongly about the importance of political debate, but as I hope the Opposition have seen, I always try to avoid political attacks on individuals, and to be honest, the motion makes me feel uneasy.

[Dave Doogan]

I share the hon. Gentleman’s appreciation of the fact that the motion is about the post and role of a Minister, not about a local MP and a person. However, while he is dishing out sympathy and empathy, can I encourage him to think of his constituents and mine who are disabled, who thought for the longest time that they were going to lose their livelihood until the Government U-turned on that policy? Can I encourage him to worry about family business owners, who now have no idea how they will afford to pass their local growth-generating business on to the next generation—not to mention farmers, who are now scared to die?

[Chris Vince]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for his intervention. I do not think I could ever be accused of being devoid of sympathy. I became an MP because I genuinely and passionately care about making a positive difference to people’s lives. In fact, as Members across the House know, I previously worked in the charity sector and as a teacher. I got involved in those jobs because I wanted to make a positive difference to people’s lives.

One of the big things in the Budget—before I go completely off my speech—is the scrapping of the two-child cap. I recognise the concerns raised by Opposition Members about increased welfare spending—although, it went up on their watch too—but when I am presented with the statistic that over 1,000 young people will be taken out of poverty as a result of that policy, I find it very difficult to ignore.

On a lighter note, I would like to state—there will be collective relief across the House—that no members of my immediate or extended family have ever worked for the Treasury or the OBR. That said, like many Members across the House, particularly on the Labour Benches—I am glad that the deputy leader of the Liberal Democrats, the hon. Member for St Albans (Daisy Cooper), mentioned this too—I value the work done by the OBR and, in particular, its independence. Of course, as many Members have mentioned, it is extremely disappointing that the OBR’s “Economic and fiscal outlook” was prematurely accessed by external users before the Chancellor’s speech on Budget day. I am really pleased that the OBR responded to that very quickly. In its own words:

“It is also important to note that the EFO contains market-sensitive information, i.e. information that is not public and could have a material impact on financial markets. This is why, in the run-up to the delivery of the Budget, any leaks concerning the OBR’s forecasts, whether accurate (as in this case) or inaccurate, whether inadvertent (as in this case) or deliberate, are to be greatly deplored.”

This is a good Budget for residents and families in Harlow, with rail fare freezes; prescription fee freezes; additional investment in our local NHS, which I have covered previously, and which had sadly been neglected; a rise in the minimum wage; a rise in the state pension—yes, a brief mention of my mother, who is delighted—and, for the vast majority of residents in Harlow who do not own a property worth over £2 million, no increase in tax.

We saw in 2022 what happens when the OBR is bypassed in the Budget-setting process, but we must ensure that the IT that backs up this non-departmental public body is fit for purpose and that such mistakes do not happen again.

[Graham Stuart]

I think it was Gladstone who said that the first duty of a statesman is to be honest. Is the hon. Gentleman, who I think would be recognised across the House as someone for whom honesty is a natural state, entirely comfortable with the Chancellor cherry-picking the confidential briefing from the OBR in that 4 November speech and not setting out the full circumstances that she was then aware of?

[Chris Vince]

The right hon. Gentleman will be aware that the OBR was very confident that the Chancellor did not mislead in the statement she put out, and I am confident about that.

The Chancellor was consistent in her priorities for this Budget: tackling the cost of living crisis, bringing down waiting times and cutting borrowing. It cannot be right that £1 in every £10 is being spent on interest payments alone. We cannot go back to the austerity we have seen, with schools and hospitals that would literally fall apart.

I would like to finish with two quotes. The first is from Margaret Thatcher:

“I always cheer up immensely if an attack is particularly wounding because I think, well, if they attack one personally, it means that they have not a single political argument left.”

And finally, to quote Dickens:

“charity begins at home, but justice begins next door”.

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Judith Cummins)]

I call the Chair of the Treasury Committee, Dame Harriett Baldwin.

Office for Budget Responsibility Forecasts

Chris Vince Excerpts

Monday 1st December 2025 Commons Chamber

[Mr Speaker]

I call Chris Vince.

[Chris Vince (Harlow) (Lab/Co-op)]

Thank you, Mr Speaker. I am shocked to be picked so early, but I appreciate it.

I thank my right hon. Friend for his statement. The premature publishing of the OBR report is very disappointing; I think Members across the House can agree on that. It is particularly disappointing for me and for residents in Harlow, because it detracts from a Budget that makes a real difference to families in my constituency by freezing rail fares, freezing prescription charges, lowering waiting times for the NHS and—as the House knows, an area I am particularly concerned about—tackling tax evasion.

[James Murray]

Not only is my hon. Friend an excellent advocate for tackling tax avoidance and evasion, but he is absolutely right to point to the fact that what is important for people across this country is that this Budget cuts the cost of living, cuts NHS waiting lists and cuts Government borrowing.

Budget: Press Briefings

Chris Vince Excerpts

Monday 17th November 2025 Commons Chamber

[James Murray]

As I have said, there is always noise and speculation ahead of a Budget, but I will not engage in speculation about what the Chancellor will announce on 26 November, because that is when she will set it all out.

[Chris Vince (Harlow) (Lab/Co-op)]

I promise the Chamber that I will not repeat any of the stories about my mum’s career in His Majesty’s Revenue and Customs. However, the Minister will know that I take tax evasion very seriously. He will be aware that it costs the Treasury billions of pounds each year. I appreciate that he cannot speculate on what will be in the Budget, but will he commit his Department to looking seriously at how we tackle tax evasion, with serious investment in HMRC?

[James Murray]

My hon. Friend is right that I cannot speculate on the contents of the Budget, but I can thank his mother for her years of service to HMRC. I can also reassure her, him and the whole House that tackling tax avoidance and evasion and closing the tax gap is a top priority for the Government.

Taxes

Chris Vince Excerpts

Wednesday 12th November 2025 Commons Chamber

[Chris Vince (Harlow) (Lab/Co-op)]

It is a pleasure to speak in this debate, and I thank the right hon. Member for Central Devon (Sir Mel Stride) and the Chief Secretary to the Treasury for opening it. As Members will know, I take any opportunity to speak or to intervene, but a couple of weeks ago I missed an opportunity when the right hon. Member for Braintree (Sir James Cleverly) asked whether any Labour Members wanted to lower taxes. I have two excuses for not intervening on that occasion. The first was that I had only just walked into the Chamber, and as my hon. Friend the Member for Calder Valley (Josh Fenton-Glynn) has found, someone cannot intervene if they have only just walked in. The second reason I did not intervene on the right hon. Gentleman was that I have to declare an interest when it comes to tax: I am the son of not one but two of His Majesty’s Revenue and Customs tax inspectors—[Interruption.] I know; I am turning into the Prime Minister and talking about what my parents did for a living. I am also the grandson of an HMRC tax inspector, so I have to declare an interest as I would not be standing here if it were not for tax.

[Dr Ben Spencer]

Tax collection and working for HMRC are important jobs. Obviously the tax collector gets a bad rap in popular culture, but I wish to thank the hon. Gentleman’s parents and family for what they do.

[Chris Vince]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for his kind intervention. I like the fact that, even in a debate about tax in which we have opposing views, we have been able to come to some sort of consensus—my speech has already done its job, one might argue.

The answer that I thought of giving the right hon. Member for Braintree about tax was that I would love residents in Harlow, particularly those in low-income families—23% of under-16s in Harlow live in low-income families—to pay less tax. However, we have seen underfunding in our local services, with the hospital and schools falling apart, and roads that frankly look like the surface of the moon. If we were to live in a low-tax haven—I do not suggest that all Opposition Members say we should—it would lead to those local services suffering, and it is those lower-income families who cannot afford private healthcare, private schools, or to get their car fixed every time they go over a pothole, who would suffer.

[Jerome Mayhew]

Will the hon. Member give way?

[Chris Vince]

I will, as long as the hon. Gentleman does not ask me about renationalisation.

[Jerome Mayhew]

I know that the hon. Member cannot pronounce that word. I quite understand the points that he makes—he is heartfelt in making them, and he thinks there should be Government spending on those issues. However, he was aware of every single one of those issues before the 2024 general election, when he stood on a manifesto commitment not to raise income tax, not to raise national insurance, and not to raise VAT. Does he accept that if his Government resile from those promises, it will be a huge breach of trust with the British people?

[Chris Vince]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for again mentioning that I cannot say “renationalisation”—well, apparently I can; I just cannot say it when we are on “BBC Look East” together.

I stood on a manifesto to ensure that I got investment into my town, and I am delighted that this Government have promised, for the first time, a realistic and fully funded timetable for a new hospital for Harlow, with a guarantee that Harlow will be the home of the UK Health Security Agency—I appreciate that I am now turning into a party political broadcast. My priority is to ensure that every young person in Harlow has the best possible opportunities, and I know that that is what this Government will do. I know that difficult choices need to be made by the Chancellor, and I will not pre-empt the Budget—Opposition Members will not be surprised to know that, as a humble Back Bencher, I do not know what the Budget says.

I mentioned that my mother was an HMRC compliance officer, and I thank the hon. Member for Runnymede and Weybridge (Dr Spencer) for paying tribute to her. I asked my mother to talk to me a little about what she did at the Inland Revenue, and later at HMRC. She said, “I will write a couple of bits down for you.” Hon. Members will be pleased to know that I am not going to read out the four pages that she wrote, but I will give a few selected highlights. I will miss out the bit where she says, “Hello Darling, thanks for asking”, but she wrote that she joined the Inland Revenue as an inspector of taxes in 1975—I thought that was very honest of my mum. That was pre-computers, and she was

“manually calculating assessments, processing returns and issuing code numbers, i.e. PAYE.”

Apparently it took 18 months of training to do that, and she successfully passed the exam, as hon. Members will have gathered.

If we fast forward, she took a career break—if hon. Members are wondering why she took a career break, I am standing right here. She initially worked at the national insurance organisation, until that merged with HMRC. Her role was to help people with gaps in their national insurance records—basic investigation work and contacting employers. In 2003, she

“returned to HMRC ‘proper’—to employer compliance investigation team.”

He job was to visit employers and check their records. Very positively she found that

“most companies were compliant, but they made mistakes.”

There was a scheme—this is something I would suggest to the Minister if he was in his place—that ran courses to ensure that businesses got it right. That could be really important. When we talk about tax evasion, there are people who do that on purpose, but there are also some who just need that help and support.

At compliance reviews, my mother also checked that foreign employees had the right to work in the UK. She was subsequently promoted to regional manager—well done mum—where she managed 100 staff and eight managers who were below her. Her team met taxpayers face-to-face in their offices, or in their homes if they were vulnerable, and they

“helped people complete tax returns, claim allowances, and ensure they paid the correct tax.”

They also administered what were then child tax credits. She was also

“able to authorise hardship payments in this context.”

Sadly, in 2014, 20,000 staff in HMRC customer services were made redundant, and as Members across the House will know, that included my mother—[Hon. Members: “Ahh!”] Thank you. HMRC decided that customers—that is taxpayers—should telephone for assistance, but telephone staff were not given 18 months of training, and if people could not get through on the phone they were told to go online. Across Essex, there were a number of cuts to local offices, including in Chelmsford, Witham, Colchester, Harlow, Bishop’s Stortford—that’s not in Essex—and Hertford.

[Joe Robertson]

I confess that I am struggling to understand the relevance of this. If it is so important to Budget setting, has the hon. Member given his mother’s note to the Chancellor for her to read?

[Chris Vince]

I thank the hon. Gentleman—I had not thought to do that, but I will do so. I am sure my mother will appreciate that I am having that conversation. I briefly spoke to the Chancellor before this speech, to let her know about my mum’s circumstances. I just put that on the record, and I thank the hon. Member for his intervention—

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Caroline Nokes)]

Order. I think there will be another intervention, but I want to bring us loosely back to the subject of taxes. While I can see that the career of the hon. Member’s mother at HMRC is related to taxes, it would be unfortunate, would it not, if I had to put a tight time limit on other Members?

[Chris Vince]

Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. So I cannot talk about my father’s and grandfather’s experiences—[Interruption.] No, okay.

[Laurence Turner (Birmingham Northfield) (Lab)]

I am grateful to my hon. Friend for becoming the human face of tax collection in this debate. A number of my constituents also work for HMRC, and they have told me that the period of cuts has impeded the agency’s ability to collect corporate taxation and get into the public purse revenues that are rightly due. Is that not a relevant factor when talking about the Opposition’s plan to cut 132,000 civil servants?

[Chris Vince]

The ultimate point here is that an estimated £5.5 billion was lost to the Treasury in 2022-23 as a result of tax evasion, and an estimated £6.6 billion was lost in 2023-24. What impact does the Minister think the previous cuts to HMRC will have on the amount of revenue collected, based on the current taxation rules, which were also agreed to by the Conservative party? How different would the amount in the coffers be if those cuts to HMRC had not been made? Will he consider that fact in the Budget and look at how we can support HMRC to ensure that we collect the correct taxes? Let us talk about the tax that should be collected but is not being collected because of the starving of funding for HMRC. From personal experience, I know that my mum and her colleagues made money for the Government. I appreciate that I went a little bit off topic, Madam Deputy Speaker, but I hope you understand the point I was trying to make.

To reiterate what my right hon. Friend the Chief Secretary to the Treasury said in his opening remarks, the Budget will be set on 26 November, which is why we will vote down this motion.

[Gregory Stafford (Farnham and Bordon) (Con)]

On that point, will the hon. Gentleman give way?

[Chris Vince]

No, I have finished my remarks.

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Caroline Nokes)]

After the next speaker, I will impose a seven-minute time limit.

Stamp Duty Land Tax

Chris Vince Excerpts

Tuesday 28th October 2025 Commons Chamber

[James Murray]

What I find it impossible to believe from the Conservatives is that they now have a shadow Chancellor who claims to have a plan for £23 billion of welfare cuts, when he himself presided over the biggest increase in welfare spending in decades when he was the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions. That is the record that gives him no credibility whatsoever in this debate.

In their motion, the Conservatives also claim that they want

“to get Britain working, to grow the economy and to give people a stronger stake in their communities”.

Yet they spend their whole time trying to claim that Britain is broken. They have joined the ranks of those who are trying to co-opt our flag for their own ends by claiming that it is in tatters. I cannot believe that so many who claim to be proud of our country are so willing to talk it down. Our country is not broken; we are a great country, filled with great people and great businesses. We are willing to roll up our sleeves and work together for a greater future. However, it is clear that many people across our country feel stuck. Under the last Government, our economy stalled, our public services were starved and opportunities dried up.

[Chris Vince (Harlow) (Lab/Co-op)]

The Minister is always generous with his time—I thank him for giving way—and I am always smiling in the Chamber, as the right hon. Member for Beverley and Holderness (Graham Stuart) will know. Conservative Members seem to be suffering from collective amnesia. Will my right hon. Friend remind me if the national debt went up or down under the last Government? [Interruption.]

[James Murray]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right to draw attention to the Conservatives’ record. [Interruption.] In 2010, I think the national debt was about 67% of GDP, but it was about 100% by the time that they left office.

Oral Answers to Questions

Chris Vince Excerpts

Tuesday 9th September 2025 Commons Chamber

[Rachel Reeves]

I will not take any lectures from the SNP, which has put up taxes on ordinary working people in Scotland. The SNP Scottish Government had the biggest settlement since devolution in real terms at the spending review this year. That was only possible because of the tax changes that we made in the Budget. It is now up to the SNP Government to use that money wisely and to see waiting lists fall in Scotland in the way that they have in England and Wales. Waiting lists are still rising in Scotland—what does that say about their Government?

[Chris Vince (Harlow) (Lab/Co-op)]

Will the Chancellor remind us whether the national debt went up or down under the previous Government?

[Rachel Reeves]

Let me just check—oh yeah, it went through the roof! At the same time that our debt levels went up, we have seen our public services—whether that is our schools, our hospitals, our transport or our infrastructure—on their knees. The Conservative Government managed to destroy our public finances, our economy and our public services. What an achievement. That is why there are only 120 of them and they are sitting on the Opposition Benches—and they will be there for a long time to come.

Property Taxes

Chris Vince Excerpts

Wednesday 3rd September 2025 Commons Chamber

[James Murray]

I gently remind the hon. Member that council tax—a tax on property—exists in this country, so the principle of applying some taxes to property is well established in the UK, and has been for some time. She is trying to tempt me to engage in more speculation, but as I said to the shadow Chancellor, I am not going to engage in speculation about what may or may not be in the Budget.

[Chris Vince (Harlow) (Lab/Co-op)]

I thank the Minister for giving way—he is always very generous with his time—and congratulate him on his well-deserved promotion. The Conservatives are not fans of tax, but sadly they are also not fans of supporting public services. Under their Government, thousands of His Majesty’s Revenue and Customs compliance officers, including my mum, were made redundant and we were not able to collect the right amount of tax that people owed. Is that partly why this Government inherited such a large financial black hole?

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Ms Nusrat Ghani)]

Order. Before the Minister responds, I will say that we have quite a few colleagues hoping to contribute, so interventions should be short. The Minister should be aware of that and consider how much longer he wishes to contribute.

Financial Services Reform

Chris Vince Excerpts

Wednesday 16th July 2025 Commons Chamber

[Emma Reynolds]

I could not agree more with my hon. Friend, who is a fantastic champion of fintech. We already have a thriving fintech sector, which is the second largest in the world—second only to the US—and we are determined to ensure that those companies access the capital and the authorisations and licences that they need from the regulators. Obviously, that is a decision for the regulators, but it should be done at pace so that these companies can get off the ground and start to scale, providing the opportunities for retail investment and, critically, providing innovative products for consumers across the country.

[Chris Vince (Harlow) (Lab/Co-op)]

I thank the Minister for her statement. The No. 1 thing that my constituents raise with me is the soaring cost of the private rented sector. Does she agree that these reforms will help first-time buyers in Harlow get on the housing ladder? Working alongside the £39 billion of investment in social housing, that can only be good for my residents.

[Emma Reynolds]

I could not agree more with my hon. Friend. We want to ensure that the dream of home ownership is expanded across the country, including to his constituency of Harlow. Because of the reforms we are taking forward, and there will be more to come, the estimate is that 36,000 new first-time buyers will be able to buy their homes in the first year of this reform being in place.

Government Performance against Fiscal Rules

Chris Vince Excerpts

Monday 7th July 2025 Commons Chamber

[Darren Jones]

I congratulate my hon. Friend on securing investment in his constituency from this Labour Government. He is right to point out that in the past his constituents have been given failed promises, whereas this Labour Government are delivering on their promises.

[Chris Vince (Harlow) (Lab/Co-op)]

I thank the Chief Secretary for his statement. My thoughts today are with the family of Anne Moffat of Old Harlow, who lost her life 20 years ago in the 7/7 attacks.

Does the Chief Secretary agree that part of the reason we have been left with such a fiscal mess is the previous Government’s decision to cut the number of HMRC compliance officers by 1,200? I declare an interest, because one of them was my mum.

UK Infrastructure: 10-year Strategy

Chris Vince Excerpts

Thursday 19th June 2025 Commons Chamber

[Madam Deputy Speaker]

Don’t let me down, Chris Vince.

[Chris Vince (Harlow) (Lab/Co-op)]

Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. I thank the Chief Secretary to the Treasury for his statement and in particular for the funding for the maintenance of hospitals. I will be lobbying the Health Secretary in due course, but first will my right hon. Friend let me once again advocate for Harlow in respect of the future of the UK Health Security Agency? It is shovel-ready, well located and cost-effective.

[Darren Jones]

I thank my hon. Friend for continuing to make the case for that investment in his constituency. Now that the spending review has concluded, it will be for the Department of Health and Social Care to make decisions on the allocation of its spending. I am sure that he will continue to lobby the Health Secretary in the normal way.