Oral Answers to Questions

Chris Evans Excerpts

Wednesday 22nd October 2014 Commons Chamber

[Stephen Crabb]

One of my early visits as Secretary of State was to Airbus in Broughton, where I saw for myself just what a fantastic plant that factory is. I spoke to senior management there, but not just that: I got a chance to meet the apprentices and see for myself just what a contribution they are making to Airbus’s success at this time.

[Chris Evans (Islwyn) (Lab/Co-op)]

The Secretary of State will know that General Dynamics in my constituency recently signed a contract for the Scout specialist vehicle platforms. Will he now pay tribute to the previous Labour Government, who were instrumental in bringing General Dynamics to Oakdale, creating hundreds of high-tech, high-spec jobs?

[Stephen Crabb]

General Dynamics is another superb Wales-based company that I have had the pleasure and privilege of visiting in recent weeks. I am very happy to join the hon. Gentleman in paying tribute to whoever was responsible for securing the inward investment.

--- Later in debate ---

[The Prime Minister]

I would be delighted to return to Somerset, and I am sure that many of my colleagues will be beating a path to Somerset in the coming months, too. I am excited by what has happened with the dredging of the Tone and the Parrett rivers. Multiple teams are out there, and they have made a real difference. They are proving that dredging, particularly on man-made waterways, which is what we are dealing with, can make a real difference. My only disappointment was that I was not allowed to drive the machinery myself—for some antiquated health and safety reasons—but I am sure I will be back.

[Chris Evans (Islwyn) (Lab/Co-op)]

Q6. Scam e-mail and scam mail cost £3.5 billion a year and bring misery to many elderly and vulnerable people right across the country. It is reported, however, by only one in five people. It is the hidden crime of this country. What is the Prime Minister going to do to stamp out scams on the internet, on the telephone and through the post?

[The Prime Minister]

The hon. Gentleman makes an important point, which is a matter of concern to many people. This is the sort of issue in respect of which the National Crime Agency is now able to bring together expertise and combat it properly. Technological advances have also been made in the form of spam and other filters that people can put on their computers so that they get fewer of these e-mails in the first place.

Wales Bill

Chris Evans Excerpts

Monday 31st March 2014 Commons Chamber

[Chris Evans (Islwyn) (Lab/Co-op)]

It is always a pleasure to follow the hon. Member for Carmarthen West and South Pembrokeshire (Simon Hart). He is always badgering us—ha, ha, ha!—about the Welsh Assembly.

This Bill is a missed opportunity. It is a Bill of nothing but smoke and mirrors. For too long—since 1999—we have been running around having no satisfaction with the Assembly. We had the Government of Wales Act 2006, which did not settle the constitutional argument. We have had Assembly after Assembly and Welsh Members of Parliament wasting their time talking about constitutional matters. Constitutional navel gazing is okay in the ivory towers of academia, but when the cost of the Silk commission is £1 million, the cost of the Williams report is £155,000 and the cost of the 2011 referendum was £5.89 million, it is time to draw a line. This Bill was our opportunity to do that, but we have had a timid response from a Government who have never, ever secured support in Wales.

[Hywel Williams]

I am slightly surprised that the hon. Gentleman is talking about constitutional navel gazing when all I have heard from Labour Members is speech after speech about the complexities and even the theology of list membership and constituency membership.

[Chris Evans]

I can only speak from my own experience. I use the Blackwood high street test when I go to Islwyn. If I walked down that street now and asked people what they thought of the Assembly, unfortunately I would be met with disinterest from most of them. If I talked about the constitutional arguments we have had today or to anybody tuning in today, they would wonder why we were talking about the Wales Bill. They would be more concerned about health, education and transport than debating giving further powers to the Assembly. That is the simple fact.

What we see in this Bill is an anomaly. On the one hand, we see the Government lifting the ban on dual candidacy, yet they are also banning double-jobbing. It seems to me that there is something fundamentally undemocratic about the way the Welsh Assembly operates. If there is a vacancy or a resignation under the first-past-the-post system, there is a by-election. That is correct; that is the model we follow in this place. However, as the Secretary of State for Wales will know, if there is a vacancy or a resignation from the list, people move up one. That is not democratic; there is no looking for a further mandate.

There are serious problems with our electoral system. First, it is difficult to understand. People in Gwent will say to me, “Why are thousands of Labour votes thrown away and I have a Tory”—or someone from the nationalist party—“representing me, but I’ve not voted for them? What is the point in voting Labour in the first-past-the-post system, yet voting Labour in the top-up system but getting no Labour AMs?” That is the situation we have to face and we are not talking about it. When we talk about dual candidacy, I think basic fairness says that in a race of four people, somebody has got to win and somebody has got to lose. Nobody gets the consolation prize of going to the Assembly.

The most damning case against dual candidacy appears in the impact assessment, which says:

“The Government of Wales Act 2006 modified the original devolution settlement to ban candidates at an Assembly election standing simultaneously in both a constituency and on a regional list. This provision has been considered unfair on smaller parties in Wales who may have a smaller pool of high quality candidates to represent them in elections.”

What the impact assessment is saying is that smaller parties in Wales, such as the Liberal Democrats or the nationalists, might not have enough high-quality candidates to stand; therefore, we should relax the rules on dual candidacy.

I do believe it is right to end double-jobbing. It makes no sense and it does not allow MPs or AMs to represent their constituents effectively. That part of the Bill is right, but the worst thing about the Bill is that we will have to come here again in a couple of years’ time and debate the constitutional settlement. That is turning people off not only the Assembly, but politics in Wales, because all that Wales is dominated by at the moment is constitutional arguments.

And so we come to the great part of the Bill: the devolution of income tax. The Government accepted the Silk commission recommendation that Wales should have the power to vary income tax, subject to a referendum. However, they did not accept the model presented by the Silk commission, which would allow bands to be varied independently. Instead, they would need to be changed in lockstep. If the Government want to commission a report at a cost of £1 million in these economic circumstances, surely they should have included all the Silk recommendations and we could have debated them on the Floor of the House. The devolution of tax-raising powers is not a priority—we can see that in our constituency postbags every week. We need a triple test. We need to talk about the issue of fair funding and a period of assignment to see whether it is in the interests of Wales and the UK to devolve income tax.

We already know that Wales is underfunded to the tune of £300 million, but varying income tax powers will not address the issue of fair funding. Once the power to partially set income tax rates is devolved, the block grant will be reduced by an amount equivalent to the Welsh share of current tax receipts. To accept this power while the block grant underfunds Wales would be irresponsible and lock in underfunding for ever. The Wales Bill does not commit to reform of the Barnett formula either, even though the Secretary of State himself has said that the formula is coming towards the end of its life. Again, that proves that this is only a piecemeal Bill and that we will unfortunately be back here on the Floor of the House, however boring and irritating we find these constitutional debates.

If we are to devolve tax powers, there needs to be further examination by the Treasury and Her Majesty’s Revenue and Customs to see how that will affect tax rates on both sides of the border. When we talk about jobs and the economy, it is also important to note that they are being created only by private sector businesses. We should therefore be speaking to those businesses and asking how their PAYE and payroll systems would be affected by the devolution of tax, but we are not. When we are varying tax powers, we also have to bear in mind that many more people live close to the Wales-England border and have to cross that border than live close to the Scotland-England border. Nearly half the Welsh population lives within 25 miles of the English border, while 10% of the English population live within 25 miles of the other side. That is 6.3 million in total. In contrast, just 4% of the Scottish population live within 25 miles of the English border.

[Jonathan Edwards]

The hon. Gentleman is quoted in the Daily Post today as saying that Wales should have the same fiscal package as Scotland. Is that his position or is it not?

[Chris Evans]

Yes, it is.

The fact that the Welsh border is significantly more densely populated than that of Scotland means that the complexity associated with different tax rates is much greater in Wales, for both employers and employees. Again, however, very little Treasury analysis has been conducted. Members may talk of a Scottish model, as the hon. Member for Carmarthen East and Dinefwr (Jonathan Edwards) did, but I think that more work must be done. We must have a report. We must know the facts and figures before we proceed further. We must seek a fair system for the whole of the United Kingdom. We cannot allow tax powers in Wales to be different from those in Scotland and England. The one thing that we have to realise is that, for all our constitutional debates, there is not an economic border on the Bristol channel, or to the north-west on Offa’s dyke. Business does not operate in that way. Business will go where business costs are lower.

[Glyn Davies]

The hon. Gentleman is making a very interesting speech. However, I should like him to clarify one point. On the one hand he tells us that he supports the Labour proposition that the Welsh Assembly should be given the same fiscal powers as Scotland and, on the other, he seems to be arguing the complete opposite. Which is it to be?

[Chris Evans]

Perhaps, when I was in full flow, the hon. Gentleman missed the point that I was making. I believe that, before we proceed, there must be a report—an impact assessment, giving facts and figures—on what will happen if we devolve tax-raising powers. That is the way in which business works. An impact assessment is the most effective and efficient way of putting the facts across.

I have spoken for a long time, but let me finally say something about borrowing powers and the devolution of minor taxes. Like many members of my party, including the First Minister, I have called for more borrowing powers. The Welsh budget has been cut by 10% during the current Parliament, and the Welsh Assembly’s capital budget has been reduced by nearly a third. I therefore welcome the borrowing powers in the Bill. As was agreed in intergovernmental talks last year, initial borrowing will be available before the devolution of minor taxes in order to finance improvements to the M4, and those of us who have to travel up the M4 every week will welcome those improvements. The amount must be agreed between the Welsh Assembly and the United Kingdom Government.

Borrowing powers linked to the minor taxes when they are devolved will be limited to £500 million for current spending and £500 million for capital projects. I hope that that will be looked at. If, or when, income tax is devolved, the borrowing limit will increase to £1 billion. If the Government underwrite that, it can be arranged now. The devolution of stamp duty and landfill tax will give the Assembly an independent revenue stream worth about £200 million a year, and it will be interesting to see how that money is spent. However, those taxes will not be devolved until April 2018, three years into the next Parliament.

I believe that we could have had a wide-ranging debate about the devolution settlement, not only in Wales but in this country, but the Government have been timid in their response to the Silk commission, and we are now faced with the inconvenience of having to revisit the Bill. I fear that, instead of talking about the bread-and-butter issues that affect my constituents, we are once more boring them silly with talk of constitutional matters and constitutional reform, which simply switches people off. I support the Bill, but I believe that there is more work to be done on it, and I hope that it will be improved by amendments tabled in Committee.

Welsh Affairs

Chris Evans Excerpts

Thursday 6th March 2014 Commons Chamber

[David T. C. Davies]

I very much welcome that, of course. It is not particularly surprising, however, because reforms such as the introduction of academies, the use of the private sector and the better use of inspections were all being suggested by Tony Blair. He started to implement them under Andrew Adonis but, for one reason or another, was unable to complete them. It is not in the least bit surprising that Labour Members now recognise that we have built on their reforms, and extended and widened them a little. Why would they want to go back on them? The problem is that we have two Labour parties in the United Kingdom. In England, we have a sort of new Labour, which to some extent recognises the need to deal with business and the private sector, if only so that it can get taxes off them in order to spend them. In Wales, we have a kind of old Labour, red in tooth and claw, that still has not woken up to the fact that the 1970s finished about 40 years ago.

[Chris Evans (Islwyn) (Lab/Co-op)]

rose—

[David T. C. Davies]

I would be delighted to give way to a true representative of old Labour.

[Chris Evans]

What can I say to that? Does the hon. Gentleman not also believe that there are two Conservative parties, judging by the comments and actions of the leader of the Conservative party in the Welsh Assembly?

[David T. C. Davies]

There are certainly differences. I will speak for myself, and others may follow. I think I am right in offering my congratulations to the hon. Gentleman. Has he recently had a child? He is looking a bit worried—perhaps it was someone further along the Opposition Benches. [Interruption.] I am told that it was actually the hon. Member for Carmarthen East and Dinefwr (Jonathan Edwards). My congratulations to him. He, too, will no doubt be experiencing the state education sector in Wales shortly.

My recommendation is that we look at what has gone wrong in that sector. There are not enough schools inspections, and far too much notice is given of those that are taking place. That practice has been done away with in England. I worked with the police for many years, as Members know. We could not have a situation in which a policy custody unit was told weeks in advance that it was going to be inspected; people just turned up and did it. That is how it should be with schools, and with hospitals. That is not what is happening in Wales, however.

I have been told by head teachers, and by schools improvement officers, that it is difficult for people to go in and assess how a teacher is doing in a classroom because the unions do not like it. Similarly, the unions do not like league tests, or testing of any other sort, and they are making it very difficult for people to go in and make the kind of changes that are required.

--- Later in debate ---

[Chris Evans (Islwyn) (Lab/Co-op)]

This is the first time that you have called me to speak in a debate, Madam Deputy Speaker, so may I congratulate you, somewhat belatedly, on your elevation to the Chair?

[Owen Smith (Pontypridd) (Lab)]

You smoothie.

[Chris Evans]

Thank you very much.

Like my right hon. Friend the Member for Torfaen (Paul Murphy), who is not in his place, I bemoan the lack of the St David’s day debate, which has been held since 1944. When Aneurin Bevan spoke in this place in 1944, he said that there were no Welsh problems, only problems. The wonderful thing about the Welsh day debate that we are missing is that it allows us to bring up issues that usually go unnoticed in this House. Today, I will bring up the issue of truancy in schools.

Truancy is not simply a matter for schools; increasingly, it affects the whole of society. It is a complex issue. It is not simply about pupils skipping school to go to the park with their friends, but is often a sign of deeper problems at home and, in some cases, of abuse. If a pupil truants from school often enough, they will be excluded. They will thereby miss out not only on a worthwhile education, but on the support network that schools provide. That can result in people falling in with the wrong crowd and getting into trouble with the police, making them less desirable to potential employers.

When I visit schools in my constituency, I am always impressed by the level of pastoral care that students receive. Head teachers have told me that for some students, that care is arguably more important than traditional classes. For many students, the support that they receive in school is invaluable. That is why exclusions and truancy are serious issues.

Over the past few years, the Welsh Government have done an incredible amount of work to prevent schoolchildren from being permanently excluded. Just 102 pupils were permanently removed from Welsh schools last year, which is almost 100 fewer than in 2009-10, when there were 200 exclusions. That is a step in the right direction. However, I will focus today on what is known as “soft exclusion”.

The number of temporary exclusions is still too high. There were 17,508 temporary exclusions in 2011-12 in Wales alone. More research and data are needed to explain why that is occurring. In October 2009, my predecessor, Lord Touhig, asked a parliamentary question about what research the previous Government had done on the effects of exclusion on pupils. He was told that no research had been commissioned. Sadly, that is still the case. What do young people do when they are excluded temporarily? Do they miss out on work? In reality, we just do not know.

In preparation for this debate, I read a report by the charity, Barnardo’s, which did some research on the use of unlawful exclusions. That is when schools ask parents to keep their children away from school without providing a formal notification of exclusion. Local authorities know nothing about such exclusions. There is obviously not a huge amount of data in this area, which is unfortunate, but the Barnardo’s study is based on anecdotal evidence.

I shall quote from the report. One parent said:

“From year 7 the head of year would phone me to say he’d been excluded, but no time scale would be mentioned. A letter would arrive two days later telling me how many days it was. There was no work set or given.”

The report heard evidence from parents of a lack of dialogue between schools and families, which leaves the pupils falling behind. One parent said:

“The head of year would ring me and say they were thinking of excluding him. Sometimes there would be a letter. It takes two days or more to arrive and it would say work would be set two days after that, but by then the exclusion time would have passed.”

The police in Blackwood say that the problems in the market area are caused mainly by young people who have been excluded, whether temporarily or permanently. That demonstrates the drain on police resources and the wider effect that this issue has on society. I was even alarmed to find, shockingly and tragically, that pupils with special needs accounted for a little over 60% of all exclusions in Wales in 2012-13, and those with school action and school action plus special educational needs had the highest rate of permanent exclusions at 0.6% per 1,000 pupils. A report by the charity Ambitious about Autism found that four in 10 children with autism had been informally excluded temporarily.

[Alun Cairns]

The hon. Gentleman raises extremely important points. Does he share my concern that some local authorities in Wales have a policy not to statement children? The statementing of children can be extremely important in some cases, to provide the right level of support that will ultimately prevent exclusion in special needs cases.

[Chris Evans]

I agree with the hon. Gentleman, and that is the point I was trying to make. There is a lack of research and data, and if more children were statemented and we knew what was going on, we would be able to address the issue.

If such things are happening on a large scale, the Government need to look into it and investigate further. Why is it happening? Is it because schools are not equipped to deal with autistic young people? The Barnardo’s report I mentioned earlier contained a statement from a parent with an autistic child:

“There are teachers who manage him fine, and those who don’t sympathise with his situation. Sending him home for 3 days is not the best option and there’s no discussion of strategies for managing his behaviour. Reasons vary, but generally he’s sent home once every 3 weeks.”

In my constituency we are extremely fortunate to have an excellent autism unit at Risca community comprehensive, and the support students receive is fantastic. The same is also true of Coleg Gwent at Crosskeys, where pupils go on to become independent live-in students. Perhaps there are areas across the country not so fortunate, but excluding children from schools on the basis that staff cannot cater to their needs is to me completely unacceptable. What concerns me is that no data on these informal exclusions are held centrally. I would like some form of Government investigation into how prevalent the issue is in schools, not only in Wales, but across the UK.

How vast is the problem? It seems to me that we simply do not know, although we do know that more than 10% of 16 to 18-year-olds are not in employment, education or training, compared with 23% of 19 to 24-year-olds. To me, those figures are unacceptable. It is all very well trying to score political points, as some of us have tried to do today, but we must understand why the figures are so high.

Charities and organisations understand this problem much better than I do. Catch22 is a social business that does an excellent job of getting young people into the habit of attending school and following a schedule. Speak to Catch22 and it will say that when young people play truant and eventually drop out of the mainstream education system, it is important that their aspirations are rebuilt and that character and resilience are developed. Those are interesting ideas, and the Government need to work closely with those fantastic organisations to find a long-term solution to the problem.

With so many young people leaving school with no future plans, we must think about how we can create opportunities for people who may have fallen out of mainstream education. No Member of this House wants young people to be excluded from school and never to reintegrate into society, and there are apprenticeship schemes that focus not on academic achievement but on learning a genuine worthwhile skill that will help a participant stay in work for years.

In my constituency, I speak all the time to businesses with excellent apprenticeship schemes. Last week I met Hafod Quarry in Abercarn, which told me about a five-year scheme that essentially guarantees employment in the industry for many years. Pensord Press in Pontllanfraith and Joyner PA in Risca offer similar apprenticeships that develop skills and lead to full-time work. There are, however, businesses that have told me that they cannot recruit young people locally because they do not have the so-called “soft skills” of communication, turning up on time and completing tasks. Those who played truant and left the education system at an early age are most likely to struggle with those essential skills. If someone without those skills is put in front of an interviewer, they simply will not get the job. That is why it is so important we get the issue right now.

Our education system needs to set up Welsh youngsters for the future, and I do not think unlawful exclusions are part of that. I would like something that my predecessor asked the previous Labour Government for almost five years ago—concrete data and a definitive study into levels of exclusion in schools and the reasons for truancy. Without that we are doing our young people a disservice. In light of the evidence available, expulsion should be the last resort while all avenues are investigated to address unacceptable behaviour in our schools.

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[Nick Smith (Blaenau Gwent) (Lab)]

I am pleased to be able to speak in this St David’s day debate.

Let me remind the House, as I like to on these occasions, of the strengths of Blaenau Gwent and the challenges that it faces. We have a proud cultural and political heritage. We gave the United Kingdom its precious national health service, and we have a strong record of serving our country in the armed forces. The Brecon Beacons national park is on our doorstep, and our industrial legacy of coal and steel is a proud one. Yet in the last decade there has been no alternative large-scale industry to take the place of steel and coal. There has been investment in transport, health and education, but our readiness for development has been cruelly coincidental with a worldwide recession and a reduction in the public sector employment that has been so important in Wales. We know that our Welsh valleys communities are resilient and look after their own, but we need jobs.

I want to talk about transport, jobs and education. The year 2014 has not brought the glad tidings for which we hoped. Unemployment has risen, and Government action is needed to deliver the jobs and growth that will secure our economic recovery. The heads of the valleys line has been greatly improved in recent years, but work is still needed on the Gilwern to Brynmawr section. The council and the Welsh Government have reopened the Ebbw Vale to Cardiff railway line, but it needs to be electrified and redoubled. In December I asked the Chief Secretary to the Treasury if he would consider bringing forward the electrification of the south Wales valleys lines, but we have heard nothing so far.

[Chris Evans]

My hon. Friend uses the Ebbw Valley railway when he travels through my constituency. Does he agree that if we are to bring jobs and growth to the valleys in constituencies such as ours, the lines must be electrified as a matter of urgency?

[Nick Smith]

My hon. Friend makes a powerful point.

Another important rail improvement is a new spur line to Abertillery. On Facebook this week, I was told that

“the youngsters in Abertillery need to be given the same access to employment as young people everywhere. The rail link is vital for the valley.”

I find the young people in Blaenau Gwent eager to work, but lacking in opportunity and experience. Along with the local jobcentre, I shall be hosting a seminar later this month for local employers, much as my hon. Friend did. I hope that they will sign up to offer work experience to our under 21s. The longer people are out of work, the more difficult it is for them to find work again and make ends meet.

As might be expected, when investors do come to Blaenau Gwent with a project, we take it seriously. The proposed development of a motor sport facility, the Circuit of Wales, in my constituency represents a once-in-a-generation opportunity. When I first heard the proposal for a racing track in the clouds I was sceptical, but having now watched “Top Gear” too often, I have a better understanding of the petrolheads who want an exciting circuit rather than an old airfield track.

It is, of course, important for the business plan for the circuit to stand up to scrutiny, and the Welsh Government have done the due diligence on it, but because of planning complications, there is a delay. Although this will be a largely private sector investment, United Kingdom Government support is still needed. The Welsh Secretary—fair dos—has repeatedly indicated support for the Circuit of Wales, but it still has no Treasury support. The Circuit of Wales developers believe that the UK has underinvested in motorsport infrastructure, as they foresee a significant demand for new facilities to meet the needs of modern motor sports. They are working hard to recruit the investors who are needed for this £250 million, 800-acre proposal. That is the key test. The developers now need to put together a portfolio of financial support, and they have my wholehearted backing for that endeavour. I hope that the Minister will continue to be positive about the proposal, especially in view of the Government’s proposal for a new public-private partnership.

Finally, let me stress the importance of education, which is paramount if we are to look forward to a brighter future in Blaenau Gwent. Our education system must give all pupils the tools that will enable them to succeed, in Wales and in our global world. If Blaenau Gwent is to enjoy the 21st century, we need investment across the board, and that means improved transport, sustainable jobs, and a first-class education system.

Commission on Devolution in Wales

Chris Evans Excerpts

Monday 18th November 2013 Commons Chamber

[Mr Jones]

My right hon. Friend raises a fair point, which has been made on many occasions. The devolution settlement, as currently constituted, does lead in some cases to a democratic deficit. These matters were raised on several occasions with the previous Labour Government. At the moment, my right hon. Friend is best served by finding a friendly Assembly Member who will raise the issues that are of concern to his constituents but which relate to matters on the Welsh side of the border. On the basis of the current devolution settlement, that is the best answer I can give.

[Chris Evans (Islwyn) (Lab/Co-op)]

The Secretary of State says in his statement that the National Assembly for Wales will be allowed to create new taxes with the consent of the UK Government. How does he envisage that process developing? Will the Chancellor of the Exchequer, rather than the Welsh Assembly, be deciding the tax regime in Wales?

[Mr Jones]

I am sure that the hon. Gentleman would understand that any new taxes would need to be constituted in such a way as not to unbalance the national economy, but the response that has been given to the Silk report makes it clear that, subject to that consent, the Assembly Government will be in a position to create new taxes.

Elections (National Assembly for Wales)

Chris Evans Excerpts

Tuesday 3rd July 2012 Westminster Hall

[Albert Owen]

I did not single out the hon. Gentleman, but I am glad that he has intervened, because we miss his contributions. The fact that he is a PPS and is unable to contribute to debate is a sorry thing for this Parliament and this Chamber.

There is an important point about the lack of democracy when there are list Members. If we go to 30 seats in the parliamentary boundaries and they are coterminous, we should have dual membership. I disagree that it will give an advantage to the Labour party, because the electorate are sophisticated in Wales and they will make their choices. They have limited choices as to who their regional Members are. That is decided by party managers, which is what this Government want; they want to strengthen their grip over who gets elected to the Welsh Assembly.

[Chris Evans (Islwyn) (Lab/Co-op)]

In my own region and in the region of my hon. Friend the Member for Blaenau Gwent (Nick Smith), in south-east Wales, Labour consistently tops the poll on the regional list yet we do not have a single Labour regional AM. Is that democratic? Is that not ignoring the democratic will of the people?

[Albert Owen]

No, it is not democratic, but it was accepted by the electorate in Wales when we had a referendum. I accept that members of the public in Wales knew what they were voting for, but I do not accept having radical changes without going back to the people of Wales and having another referendum so that they can endorse or disagree with the principles. That would be real democracy.

Oral Answers to Questions

Chris Evans Excerpts

Wednesday 29th February 2012 Commons Chamber

[Mrs Gillan]

I can reassure my hon. Friend that I welcome the sterling work of the Welsh Affairs Committee, as I am sure do all Members, given that it was a unanimous report. It highlights areas that must be addressed by the UK Government and the Welsh Government. Recently, I met Nick Baird, the chief executive of UKTI, to discuss the response. I have said right from the start of this Government that I want to encourage closer working between the Welsh Government and the UK Government, particularly in the light of some of the disappointing figures in Wales.

[Chris Evans (Islwyn) (Lab/Co-op)]

General Dynamics has celebrated 10 successful years in my constituency. Will the Secretary of State congratulate the Labour Government, who were instrumental in bringing General Dynamics to my constituency?

[Mrs Gillan]

I have always said that politicians of all parties should co-operate to bring inward investment to both the United Kingdom and Wales. I have great pleasure in congratulating any individuals who were involved in bringing General Dynamics to Wales. I have visited General Dynamics on many occasions and it is an excellent company. I am pleased to concur with the hon. Gentleman’s sentiment.

Oral Answers to Questions

Chris Evans Excerpts

Wednesday 23rd November 2011 Commons Chamber

[Chris Evans (Islwyn) (Lab/Co-op)]

4. What recent discussions she has had with the Chancellor of the Exchequer on the effects in Wales of the rate of inflation.

[The Secretary of State for Wales (Mrs Cheryl Gillan)]

I have regular discussions with the Chancellor and other ministerial colleagues on a range of issues affecting Wales. I welcome the latest fall in inflation, which was published by the Office for National Statistics last week.

[Chris Evans]

On this Government’s watch, average food bills have increased by 5%, putting more pressure on hard-working families. I have listened to the Secretary of State’s responses, but can she give a guarantee that she is really fighting Wales’s corner and fighting for hard-working families in Cabinet?

[Mrs Gillan]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for what I think was a question. There can be absolutely no doubt about whether I always fight Wales’s corner in Cabinet. I thought he would at least be encouraged that the Bank of England has forecast that inflation should fall rapidly over 2012. In the mean time, the Government are taking very strong action to help consumers with high costs. We all want to help households and the Government go to the last degree to do so.

Constitutional Reform (Wales)

Chris Evans Excerpts

Thursday 19th May 2011 Westminster Hall

[Chris Evans (Islwyn) (Lab/Co-op)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Davies. Like my right hon. Friend the Member for Torfaen (Paul Murphy), I pay tribute to the Welsh Affairs Committee for being the only Committee that has debated this issue in some depth. I also pay tribute to its Chair for his succinct and articulate speech. I agree with many of the things that he has said.

The most important thing that has come out of this report is the haste with which all this is being done. Sometimes, when I sit in the House, it feels as though policies are being plucked out of the air. Under discussion is the biggest constitutional change in a generation. It is far bigger than the Welsh Assembly and the foundation of the Scottish Parliament. However, we, as Members of Parliament, have not had the opportunity to debate it. We have not had pre-legislative scrutiny, a Joint Committee to consider the change or, as my right hon. Friend has said, any consensus.

A myth has been perpetuated by the coalition ever since the expenses scandal. There is a belief that all politicians are wrong to want to come into public life. Suddenly, we are plucking solutions out of the air. It has been said that we need to change our electoral system and that we need to work harder. We have no empirical evidence on how hard MPs work, yet we are told that we need to work harder. Now we are told that people want fewer MPs, but such a change will fail without proper scrutiny and sufficient time.

I do not mind debating constitutional issues. When we talk about the West Lothian question, it always comes down to one thing—we are looking at it from the wrong point of view. We are looking at it from the point of view that Welsh MPs cannot vote on health or transport issues in Wales. If we use that logic, we could ask why London MPs are allowed to vote on policing issues when policing is devolved in London. It does not make sense. When we talk about any future devolution or any constitutional change, we have to consider the issue from the basis of the whole of the nation. We have to consider how devolution fits into the regions. However, we are not talking about that. This place is not the English Parliament, and it has never been the English Parliament. This place is the Parliament of Great Britain. When we talk about English votes for English MPs on English-only matters, we have to ask ourselves where in the constitution it says that this is the English Parliament. Perhaps I am being cynical, but the way in which this is being rushed through makes me feel that this is not a constitutional change, but political gerrymandering of the highest kind. It is based not on any rational argument, but on a policy of one size fits all.

We have already heard about rural areas, but let us look at some of the constituencies in detail. The old constituency of Meirionnydd Nant Conwy, which is now Dwyfor Meirionnydd—the right hon. Member for Dwyfor Meirionnydd (Mr Llwyd) in not in his seat at the moment—will probably be unmanageable. Montgomeryshire will be huge. Does that mean more money will be provided for the Members of Parliament who will represent those two constituencies? I do not think so. Where did this idea come from? Wales is not a special case, yet Orkney and Shetland and the constituencies covering the Western Isles of Scotland and Isle of Wight were pulled out? Why were they pulled out? We just do not know.

[Nick Smith]

Lib Dem seats.

[Chris Evans]

That is cynical, but it is what we have to think.

[Geraint Davies]

Conservative seats.

[Chris Evans]

Sorry, Isle of Wight is a Tory seat.

I was working with my predecessor when the Government of Wales Act 2006 was debated. The 2006 Act stated that Assembly seats must be co-terminous with Westminster seats, but that has suddenly been thrown out of the window. It is as if the Government are saying, “Okay, we will just decouple.” Where we have an Assembly Member, the imperative is to build a close relationship with them and to work on issues such as health and education, but that will go completely out of the window. We will have a situation in which people will say, “Who is my Assembly Member? Who do I pass this on to?” This seems to be—for want of a better term—absolutely crackers.

We have already talked about the democratic deficit. Despite the fact that Wales represents 5% of the UK population, its constituencies will be reduced by 20%. Wales will send 25 fewer MPs here. Northern Ireland will lose some 17%; Scotland will lose 9%; and England, which is Tory dominated, will lose 5.5%. We have to ask ourselves why Wales has been disproportionately targeted. I wonder whether it is because we have a history of sending back Labour Members of Parliament. Will Swindon, which has two Tory MPs, be reduced to just one seat? Will other places, such as Cheltenham and Gloucester—I know Cheltenham quite well—be reduced to one seat? Will Tewkesbury, the Cotswolds and Cheltenham, which have three Tory MPs, be one seat? I wonder. We wait and see.

[Roger Williams]

Cheltenham is a Liberal Democrat seat.

[Chris Evans]

Sorry, I did not say Cheltenham. I should correct the hon. Gentleman. Cheltenham is a Liberal Democrat seat, but I said that the Cotswolds, Tewkesbury and Gloucester were Tory seats.

[Karen Lumley (Redditch) (Con)]

I am obviously an English MP, but I am proud to have spent most of my adult life in Wales, and I certainly consider myself a Conservative Unionist MP. Wrexham, where I brought my children up, has an electorate of 51,000, but Redditch, which I represent, has an electorate of nearly 70,000. Does the hon. Gentleman think that that is fair?

[Chris Evans]

That argument has been brought out all the way through. To use the American example, however, we do not hear people in California, which has 37 million electors, saying that they deserve more senators than Wyoming, which has 544,000.

The other thing about Welsh constituencies is that they are different. The Cotswolds, Tewkesbury and Cheltenham are all flat, so they can be put together. In Wales, however, we have rivers and mountains. As somebody once said to me at a Labour party grand committee meeting, “Islwyn was not created. It was given to us by God.” I do not know whether that is true.

[Paul Murphy]

That is true of all our constituencies.

[Chris Evans]

Yes. Big mountains separate Blaenau Gwent from neighbouring constituencies.

[Stuart Andrew (Pudsey) (Con)]

Has the hon. Gentleman ever been to other parts of England, where there are mountains and rivers? The same argument could apply to those places. We have huge constituencies. North Yorkshire, for example, has constituencies that meet the criteria that he has described, but they are twice the size of many constituencies in Wales. Why is that different?

[Chris Evans]

The point that I was coming to is that we have local links in Wales—communities are linked to each other and have common bonds. The hon. Gentleman represents an English constituency, but if he wanted to discuss the point, he should have made a speech.

[Geraint Davies]

Does my hon. Friend agree that Wales is, in essence, a small country next to a very large country that is 15 times its size? If we want a sustainable Union and a respect agenda, we should remember that Wales has always had slightly more MPs than England. That is the fundamental point: tearing up the Union is the cost of gerrymandering a sustainable Conservative Government. Wales is a small country sitting next to a big one, so we should have a few more MPs. That is all this is about.

[Chris Evans]

That leads on to my final point about the policy overall. Perhaps I can look at the issue from a wider angle and step outside Wales for a moment, if you will allow me, Mr Davies. We are a nation state, and what seriously worries me about this exercise is that it is based on figures rather than communities. In that respect, I am glad that I followed my right hon. Friend the Member for Torfaen, because he knows about the situation in Northern Ireland, where wards and constituencies must strike a fine balance and could cause major problems. However, we have had no scrutiny of any kind, so these issues have not come out.

The coalition has hung on to its belief that people distrust politicians, but when people voted no for AV, they dispelled the myth that it was constitutional reform that we needed; we actually need to reconnect with people. Forcing through the proposed changes will mean more disconnect and people being more removed from politics, and that is a dangerous game. I therefore finish by paying tribute, as I did at the beginning, to the Welsh Affairs Committee, which is the only Committee to have looked at this issue properly.

[Jonathan Edwards (Carmarthen East and Dinefwr) (PC)]

rose—

Expenditure Reductions: Policing

Chris Evans Excerpts

Thursday 16th September 2010 Ministerial Corrections

[Chris Evans (Islwyn) (Lab/Co-op)]

9. What discussions she has had with the Secretary of State for the Home Department on the effects on front-line policing in Wales of planned expenditure reductions.

[Mr Jones]

The question of funding for the police is a matter that will have to await the comprehensive spending review, but I am heartened by the comments of the National Audit Office and the Wales Audit Office about how it should be possible to effect reductions of £1 billion without any effect at all on front-line policing.

[Official Report, 8 September 2010, Vol. 515, c. 310.]

Letter of correction form David Jones:

An error has been identified in the response provided to the hon. Member for Islwyn (Chris Evans) during Welsh oral questions on 8 September 2010.

The Minister intended to refer to a report by the Wales Audit Office, the Audit Commission and Her Majesty’s Inspectorate of Policing. The Minister did not intend to refer to the National Audit Office in his response.

Oral Answers to Questions

Chris Evans Excerpts

Wednesday 8th September 2010 Commons Chamber

[Mrs Gillan]

I am very grateful to the Electoral Commission for its report and the 10 weeks of examination that it gave to the question that was designed by the project board. On Monday I worked with the First Minister and the Deputy First Minister, and I have considered its findings. We have all agreed that we should accept its findings and take forward the preamble and the question that has been put forward, on an objective and independent basis, by the Electoral Commission, and I shall be making a further statement to Parliament.

[Chris Evans (Islwyn) (Lab/Co-op)]

9. What discussions she has had with the Secretary of State for the Home Department on the effects on front-line policing in Wales of planned expenditure reductions. [Official Report, 16 September 2010, Vol. 515, c. 3-4MC.]

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Wales (Mr David Jones)]

Both my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State and I have regular discussions with Cabinet and ministerial colleagues on policing matters in Wales. We recognise that reductions in budgets will be challenging to our police forces, but will also present opportunities to refocus policing priorities and make operational efficiencies.

[Chris Evans]

I thank the Minister for his response. Given how successful the Safer Caerphilly community safety partnership has been in substantially reducing crime and antisocial behaviour, will the Secretary of State give an assurance that she will fight any plans to cut funding for next year?

[Mr Jones]

The question of funding for the police is a matter that will have to await the comprehensive spending review, but I am heartened by the comments of the National Audit Office and the Wales Audit Office about how it should be possible to effect reductions of £1 billion without any effect at all on front-line policing.