Oral Answers to Questions

Chris Evans Excerpts

Monday 10th September 2012 Commons Chamber

[Mr Duncan Smith]

It is interesting, of course, because I have had correspondence from people throughout the country saying that we should reduce the cap because it is too high. We have introduced the cap at this level because we think it is fairest—it ensures that average earnings are not exceeded by people who are out of work and that people who pay their taxes do not feel that they are paying them to people who do not work as hard as they do.

[Chris Evans (Islwyn) (Lab/Co-op)]

T5. A constituent has written to me stating that she has had terrible trouble finding work because she has a daughter under the age of six and has child care needs. She has visited Jobcentre Plus but has been told that jobs in term time are few and far between. She asks whether the Government have studied the situation in France, where 65% of women with children under the age of six are in work.

[Mr Hoban]

We have sought to create flexibility in Jobcentre Plus, particularly in respect of lone parents—I do not know whether the hon. Gentleman’s constituent is a lone parent—so that it recognises the need for flexibility around term times and some of the challenges around child care. If he wishes to write to me with the details of his case, I will look into it.

Specialist Disability Employment

Chris Evans Excerpts

Tuesday 10th July 2012 Commons Chamber

[Maria Miller]

My hon. Friend is right to focus on the support package we are putting in place to ensure that people affected by today’s announcement get all the help they need to get into mainstream employment. That will be in the form of both a personal budget, which can give the flexibility to ensure that training is put in place for individuals, and access to any of the mainstream programmes that the Government run, including Work Choice, the Work programme and Access to Work.

[Chris Evans (Islwyn) (Lab/Co-op)]

The union convener at Croespenmaen Remploy factory, Ian Lloyd, has been told that Croespenmaen might have a buyer but will not find out until September. As the Minister might be aware, this gives the workers there some hope. Will she guarantee, first, that they are not being led up the garden path and, secondly, that they will have all the support in place at the moment?

[Maria Miller]

I was pleased to have a meeting with the hon. Gentleman, who has been a doughty advocate for his factory and constituency, and obviously it is good that we will be moving forward with the bid. We will work hard to do everything we can to make bids successful, but obviously they have to be commercially viable and provide jobs for disabled people. Those are our priorities.

Disability Benefits and Social Care

Chris Evans Excerpts

Wednesday 20th June 2012 Commons Chamber

[Chris Evans (Islwyn) (Lab/Co-op)]

I want to speak about one of the worst days that I have ever had as a Member of Parliament. On the day that workers at the Croespenmaen Remploy factory were told that it was to close, I was rung up by a union official and asked to go there to address them in their canteen. I remember standing in that canteen and telling them about the Government’s proposals to close their factory. I had been to that factory many times before when people were working to capacity, flat out, and had to come off the shop floor to speak to me because they were so busy. But on that day, everyone was there, and everyone was scared. They were worried, fearful and upset—and who could blame them? They were facing a bleak future in a local economy where 11 people are chasing every jobcentre vacancy and youth unemployment has gone up by over 250% in the past year.

The warm words of the Government are all very well when they say, “But we’re making an offer.” It seems strange to me that nobody ever gets sacked or made redundant any more—they are given an offer or future options to take. Well, the future that those workers face is very bleak. Things have been made worse by the crass comments of the Secretary of State. As we heard from my right hon. Friend the shadow Secretary of State, he said that people working in Remploy were good enough only to make a cup of coffee. He also said, “Let’s get away from the Victorian era of employment segregation.” Has he has ever visited a Remploy factory? Has he ever been round one of those modern facilities? Has he ever seen the skills that some of those people have when they operate woodworking machinery that cuts wood to within a fraction of an inch? These are really skilled jobs. If they are in sheltered employment, as he keeps saying, why do blue-chip companies such as BAE Systems want to take out contracts with them? The Government have presented Remploy as merely outdated and outmoded, whereas in my experience it is a modern, forward-looking company with a very motivated work force. If anyone wants further evidence of that, they should consider the fact that the workers at Croespenmaen tell me that they have had sales of £0.5 million since the closure announcement on 9 March. For a company that is supposedly failing, they are still motivated and still want to make things work.

As we face the end of the consultation on Monday, the question is what can be done. I say this: having changed the rules halfway through, the Government need to rip up the rulebook and start again. They could take on Liz Sayce’s recommendations and give the company six months to get a business plan together. When I spoke to the workers, they asked me, “How are we going to save our jobs and our factory, and talk to people who might want to take it over, if we only have three months?” Those workers should be given two years so that they can go about trying to save their business, and the Government should not take their funding away from them straight away and cut their legs off from under them, as they are proposing to do.

The cruellest thing about what is happening to the workers at Croespenmaen is that there is a solution for them. I remember my right hon. Friend the Member for Cynon Valley (Ann Clwyd), in Prime Minister’s questions, asking the Prime Minister whether he would devolve the Remploy budget to Wales for the next three years. At that time, he seemed quite optimistic, and gave them false hope, but when we had the official letter, we got a big fat no. Maybe, just for once, this arrogant, blind Government, who think they are right about everything, might have been proved wrong by those proud workers who are trying to save their factory, but we got a no, and they are facing a bleak future. We have already heard the Minister say that the disability budget is going to be ring-fenced at £320 million, so what do the Government have to lose by devolving that budget to the Welsh Assembly? The answer is absolutely nothing. To me, it is a no-brainer. If it works, that is great, because those 44 people in the Croespenmaen factory will keep their jobs. If it fails, the Government can do what they have always done and blame the Labour Government.

People are always saying that this is all about sheltered employment. As I said, the Secretary of State referred to segregated employment. It is not about employment; it is about something that the Tories used to say they represented—choice. There are people at Remploy who cannot go into mainstream work but want the choice of being able to stay at Remploy, and that choice is being taken away. I sincerely hope that when the Minister responds to the debate, he will think of all those people who are still worried about their future.

Employment Support

Chris Evans Excerpts

Wednesday 7th March 2012 Commons Chamber

[Maria Miller]

I will look into the point that the hon. Gentleman raises about the Springburn factory. I would absolutely apologise to factory workers if there was not a signer available. I will look into that in detail. I ask the hon. Gentleman to consider the number of disabled people in his constituency who have been supported into mainstream employment through our employment services programmes and many others. We know that disabled people want to be able to live independent lives, and through the changes that we are talking about today we can support many, many more to do that.

[Chris Evans (Islwyn) (Lab/Co-op)]

Croespenmaen in my constituency has worked hard to make its business a success. It has shown faith in Remploy. It is a pity that the Government could not show the same faith in it. Today’s announcement is nothing short of a kick in the teeth. Does the Minister believe that 90 days is long enough for these people to plan their future or try to save their factory?

[Maria Miller]

I know the hon. Gentleman feels very strongly about this. We are absolutely showing faith in disabled people in what we are doing today. The plans and proposals that we have put forward have the full endorsement and backing of many disabled people throughout the country, and the work that has been done by Liz Sayce is an important contribution to the way we can help improve the lives of disabled people in Britain today.

Inflammatory Bowel Disease

Chris Evans Excerpts

Tuesday 31st January 2012 Westminster Hall

[Chris Evans (Islwyn) (Lab/Co-op)]

Thank you for calling me to speak, Mr Leigh.

I called for this debate to draw attention to the crippling effects of one of the country’s most common health conditions and the problems that people living with it face in their working lives. I will be honest: before securing this debate, I knew very little about inflammatory bowel disease. I knew the bare facts, but I did not know the impact that IBD has on sufferers in their daily lives. For example, I did not know that there are more people with IBD than people with multiple sclerosis and Parkinson’s disease. However, if we asked the person on the street about either of those two terrible conditions, I am sure that they would know at least the barest details. By contrast, if we mentioned IBD to someone, it is quite possible that there would be some confused looks and silence. Indeed, when I mentioned this debate to people over the weekend, I had to explain what it was about.

Perhaps the problem comes down to the fact that many of those who live with IBD are often too embarrassed by the symptoms or are afraid to speak out about what they have to go through daily. Living with IBD is particularly difficult as the condition is known to fluctuate and can flare up at any time without warning. What is more, unlike the impact of many debilitating illnesses, the impact of IBD is not always obvious to other people, making it difficult for them to understand what a sufferer is going through.

The problem is particularly acute in the work environment, as someone who is suffering from IBD can find it difficult to tell their employer what is wrong with them. In a survey by Crohn’s and Colitis UK, 78% of people with IBD said they worry about their ability to manage their symptoms in the workplace. In addition, 62% said they worry about not being able to carry out their responsibilities adequately and 36% said they fear losing their job as a result of their condition.

Those of us with a long commute may worry or moan about traffic on the roads or finding a seat on a train, but few of us have to worry about where the nearest toilet is, which really is the difference between being in or out of work for someone with IBD.

Those fears are particularly prevalent among young people with IBD who are about to enter the workplace for the first time. When young people with IBD were asked about their condition, 56% of them said that their condition causes them to rule out some career options that they might otherwise have considered.

[Andrew Percy (Brigg and Goole) (Con)]

I am sorry for not giving the hon. Gentleman notice that I wanted to speak; I had not realised that he had secured this debate. I just want to emphasise the point that he is making. My mother suffers from Crohn’s disease and has twice had operations to remove part of her bowel. On both occasions, she nearly died. I have seen her symptoms daily and growing up as a kid I actually saw her cry because she was unable to get to a public toilet after being refused the use of a toilet—a private toilet—in a shop. This condition really impacts on people’s lives. It changes the whole way in which they have to live and work, and sadly a lot of workplaces are not set up at all for people who have it.

[Chris Evans]

I agree completely with the hon. Gentleman, and I will develop that point about workplaces further as I go through my speech. I am glad that he has raised it. Very often in this place, we quote statistics and sometimes we use them to bash the Government, but in the middle of all those statistics there are real human tragedies and stories that are taking place. As I have said, I am glad that the hon. Gentleman raised that point and I hope that his mother is dealing with life a bit better now.

I want to return to the point that I was making about young people with IBD. At a time when more and more of our young people are struggling to find work, the last thing that we need is for them to rule out career options. Since becoming involved in the campaign to raise awareness of IBD, I have heard story after story from young people who are unable to fulfil their potential because of the problems that the condition causes. This story is particularly common:

“Leanne is a full time foundation degree student from Crewe and has a part time job in a local pub. As a 19 year old she finds it especially hard having an illness which isn’t highly understood or visible. Having a condition which includes side effects like fatigue means not all employers or educational institutions understand the challenges she faces, and she even says that most people mistake this fatigue for laziness. She has had bad experiences in the past with employers and teachers who do not fully understand her condition and what it can mean on a daily basis. She describes herself as a passionate individual who wants to commit to jobs and her education, but finds it difficult on bad days. She has in the past been called “unreliable” during a flare-up of her illness. This ignorance can be damaging and can have a lasting effect on someone so young.”

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

I thank the hon. Member for Islwyn (Chris Evans) for bringing this matter to the House. The hon. Member for Brigg and Goole (Andrew Percy), who spoke earlier, has illustrated very clearly the issues involved. As elected representatives, every one of us has to deal with these issues every day with our constituents.

The hon. Member for Islwyn has referred to work. The civil service in particular seems to have issues with its “early warning scheme”, as it calls it, and there is no flexibility in that system. Does the hon. Gentleman feel that it is time for the civil service to address that issue, so that people who want employment in the civil service can stay in it and not have to leave?

[Chris Evans]

Yes, absolutely, and that is really the crux of the issue. IBD is not a condition that causes symptoms all the time; there are flare-ups, and then the condition goes back down and people go back to normal life. If there is a problem in the civil service, I hope that the Minister will address it when he responds to the debate.

In today’s economic climate, with youth unemployment at the level that it is, we cannot allow someone with IBD to believe that their condition bars them from the job market. I heard another story of a young person, James, who was diagnosed with IBD in his early teens. James is currently studying for a degree at the university of Sheffield, but he is worried about managing his symptoms in the workplace when he graduates and begins to look for work in what is already a challenging job market. James has said:

“I think the use of the toilet without restrictions has to be paramount. I also think employers should give employees the opportunity to confidentially declare any illnesses which may affect the efficiency of their work. I think employees, regardless of what illness they have, should be allowed to use the facilities, so people who are ill do not feel isolated. Also, I think there should be no stigma attached to having the sudden urge to use the toilet. This is often the case, I would have thought, if you work/live with the same people for a long time. I am concerned that, after having worked so hard to get my first job after I graduate, if I have to have time off for illness or procedures I will be under more pressure in my job. The job market is so competitive and if someone is less ill than me, I will be placed under more pressure due to a situation beyond my control. It is pretty inevitable that I may need time off while working, but due to the competitiveness of the job market there will always someone who will be able to take my place.”

[David Simpson (Upper Bann) (DUP)]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for giving way and I congratulate him on securing this debate. In my own company, which I have registered in the Register of Members’ Financial Interests, we have experienced this problem, as it affected one of our management team. As a company, we decided that we would facilitate that individual because they were a good worker; they were enthusiastic in what they did. Although my hon. Friend the Member for Strangford (Jim Shannon) has raised the issue of the civil service, surely the private sector needs to take a grip of this issue and a company ought to overlook the difficulties that a person—old or young—may have and see the potential benefits they can offer.

[Chris Evans]

I commend the hon. Gentleman for putting that policy in place in his company. As I have said, when I have spoken to people about IBD there is a real fear of being embarrassed about it and not being able to tell someone about it. If a company creates a culture or an environment where an employee can go to their boss and say, “I’ve got this condition,” in many cases the problem can be overcome and resolved. As the hon. Gentleman has this example of something that has worked, I hope that it can be passed on to the Minister, perhaps to solve the problem that the hon. Member for Strangford raised about the civil service.

[Glyn Davies (Montgomeryshire) (Con)]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for allowing me to intervene on him, and I do so to support the point that he is making. I have had a colostomy, having suffered from bowel cancer. As an individual, I made a huge point of being very public about that fact, including about the ways that I have dealt with the disease. And I must say that that approach has given a lot of people in my constituency hope. A disease such as bowel cancer is not something that is embarrassing any more. People talk about bowel cancer and bowel issues now as part of normal life, and it is hugely important that people in the public eye—as we used to call it—talk about these conditions and do not hide them away, so that they become more accepted by everybody else.

[Chris Evans]

I remember the hon. Gentleman in his previous life as a Welsh Assembly Member, and I also remember the good work that he did to raise awareness about this issue. I hope that more people follow his example and raise awareness of what is a really serious situation.

Returning to my example, when they graduate, people such as James may be too embarrassed to ask for help from careers advisers or Jobcentre Plus staff, who are already feeling the strain caused by the sheer volume of people whom they are trying to get back into work.

Some people do not even make it to university due to the challenges that they face in their teenage years from IBD. Here is an example of such a person:

“Because of immune suppressants which I take to manage my IBD, I have a very low immune system and become very ill, very quickly. I have already missed one year and I have had to re-sit my A levels. I feel a complete failure. I wanted to become an architect but I just cannot keep up with my studies. I feel I have let myself and my family down and my career is only just supposed to be starting.”

There are endless stories of young people with IBD who are worried and concerned about their future. A diagnosis of IBD should not mean that a person has to restrict their ambitions, whatever those ambitions are. The prospect of starting work is particularly daunting for anybody leaving school or university, but it is made even harder for those who are simultaneously coming to terms with a long-term health condition.

Many employers lack knowledge of IBD, which complicates the problem further. A study undertaken by Crohn’s and Colitis UK found that two thirds of employers admitted to knowing very little or nothing at all about the needs of employees with IBD. When asked to name some of the symptoms of IBD, most were unable to name any, while others displayed a misunderstanding of the condition. One even attributed IBD to a lack of “work passion”. That could not be further from the truth, as we see from the example of the hon. Member for Montgomeryshire (Glyn Davies). Half of people with the condition revealed that they feel they need to put in additional effort to compensate for the time they take off for hospital or doctor’s appointments.

There are steps that employers can take to provide extra support for employees who suffer with IBD. There are simple adjustments, such as allowing an employee with IBD to visit the toilet when needed and, if possible, sit near a bathroom. That can help an IBD sufferer stay in employment and not feel awkward about the condition when they are in work. Some 65% of people with IBD believe that the opportunity to work flexible hours could maximise their productivity.

I do not want anyone to think that young people are the only group to be affected by the condition, as we have seen with examples today.

[Andrew Percy]

On the issue of work ability, there needs to be an acceptance not only that sufferers need to use the toilet, but that a lot of people rely on vitamin B12 injections. As one gets nearer the time for the injection, energy levels drop. Employers need to recognise that there could well be a change in work patterns as the time for the injection approaches.

[Chris Evans]

That was the point that I was trying to make. All we are looking for is a little understanding from employers. We are not asking for a great change in legislation. We want them to foster an environment where people do not feel embarrassed about going to their employers about their condition and that, when they do have to take medication, they are allowed time to do so. That will not affect anyone’s productivity; if anything, it will improve it.

As I have said, I do not want anyone to think that only young people face this problem. Some are forced to take early retirement due to the unpredictable nature of their disease. Until last year, John was a university lecturer. He found that working and living with a chronic condition such as inflammatory bowel disease was too much to cope with. He was unable to rely on the stability of his bowels while giving lectures. He chose to take early retirement without much of a fight. It took 18 months to get his pension released early on partial incapacity grounds, which took a toll, as his condition was going through a flare-up. Even though he has come to terms with his current medication, in order to help keep his symptoms under control, the IBD is difficult to live with and dictates how much travel he can do on a daily basis. It has been financially tough on John and his family, as he was the sole source of income, which has now been halved. The majority of his lump-sum payment made on retirement had to be used to fit a downstairs toilet.

I do not have to tell anyone how important it is to keep people in work, particularly in this economic climate. However, we have to accept that people with fluctuating health conditions may be in or out of work, and employers have to adapt to the different needs of those with the illness.

[Jim Shannon]

One clear issue is the disability living allowance and the benefits system. Does the hon. Gentleman feel there are occasions—I am aware of them—when the benefits system is not flexible enough to enable someone to achieve disability living allowance and to return to work later, if they have to?

[Chris Evans]

That is why we need flexibility in the benefits system. When people have this debilitating disease that very often stops them from working—they cannot do anything, they cannot leave the house—they cannot claim benefit. They do not even slip into the system or anything like that. That has to be borne in mind.

In the week that we are debating the remaining stages of the Welfare Reform Bill, it is important that the benefits system reflects the different needs and requirements of those with fluctuating health conditions. It is crucial that those with IBD do not struggle to cope at work through illness, or live in poverty when they are unable to work. I have heard stories about people with the disease having no income, which forces them out to work. Take this testimony:

“As my symptoms are not regular, I do not qualify for any benefits. So when I am actually too ill to work, I must simply either choose not to work or lose money. It is stressful having to explain the situation without going into too much detail.”

The Government need to recognise the disabling elements of long-term fluctuating conditions such as IBD and include provision for those in the benefits system. The importance of that is underlined by the Government’s introduction of universal credit, and the need to attend back-to-work interviews. The unpredictable nature of IBD means that people with the condition, who are required to attend interviews and undertake other work-related activities, may at times require flexibility, should they experience a flare-up of their condition.

Ultimately, IBD does not have to hinder someone’s work potential. People live with the condition and make a positive impact in the world of work every day. All they ask for is sensitivity and understanding. I do not think that is too much. Therefore, I believe that employers, health professionals and policy makers have a duty to ensure that there is a greater understanding for those with fluctuating conditions such as IBD.

Unemployment

Chris Evans Excerpts

Wednesday 14th December 2011 Commons Chamber

[Mr Kevin Barron (Rother Valley) (Lab)]

May I give the hon. Member for Monmouth (David T. C. Davies) a little history of how the economy is affected from time to time in the United Kingdom, as it has been for centuries and will carry on being, because unforeseen things come along and rock economies, as we experienced in 2008-09 under the previous Labour Government? That should not cloud the issues before us in the motion that my Front Benchers have tabled and I support, because the figure of 2.638 million unemployed people in this country represents a massive amount of human suffering, costs the economy and will go on doing so for generations if it is not tackled. The hon. Gentleman asked whether people are leaving school with the right language, literature and other skills to go into the workplace, but, having been a Member for 28 years, I have listened to such debates, and at certain points we decided to tackle the major issues that needed to be tackled in order to ease the problems that mass unemployment has caused.

Today’s rise in unemployment is our biggest since July 1994. The regional breakdown for Yorkshire and Humberside shows that employment—not unemployment—has fallen by 70,000 over the last quarter; that unemployment has increased by 9,000 on the previous quarter; that it stands at 253,000; and that the number of people claiming jobseeker’s allowance has increased by 500 on the previous month. That tells me and most people that there is something seriously wrong with the path that the Government are taking to turn the economy around, and that a large amount of money will have to be paid from the public purse to keep the figures as they are.

Youth unemployment went up by 54,000 in the three months to October and now stands at more than 1 million, the highest level since comparable records began in 1992. I brought the matter up at Prime Minister’s Question Time today, noting that more than 22% of 16 to 24-year-olds who could be economically active are unemployed, an increase of 1.2% on the previous quarter. That has major implications for the British economy and, certainly, for young people.

Long-term youth unemployment has gone up to 141,200, the highest level since July 1997, and by 68,000 alone since January, a rise of 93%.

[Chris Evans (Islwyn) (Lab/Co-op)]

Government Members are obsessed with immigration, when there is youth unemployment and young people are leaving school without the skills to fill the jobs that are going to come up. In future we will have to bring more people to this country to fill those jobs for which we do not have the skills.

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Dawn Primarolo)]

Order. Lots of Members are doing this: when they make an intervention or speak they have to face the Chair, not turn their back to it. So, if everybody could remember that, it would be very handy.

Credit Unions

Chris Evans Excerpts

Wednesday 23rd November 2011 Westminster Hall

[Chris Evans (Islwyn) (Lab/Co-op)]

The speech by the hon. Member for East Hampshire (Damian Hinds) was illuminating and informative, and his passion for credit unions came through. As treasurer of the all-party group on credit unions, I pay tribute to him for his work in raising awareness across all parties in the House of the good work that credit unions do. I declare an interest as a Co-op MP, and also as a member of Islwyn Community Credit Union, which, I am pleased to report, has this year lent £1 million to its members in Islwyn. That just goes to prove that, once again, for many people it is credit unions that are coming to the rescue for their financial needs.

There has been an explosion in credit unions in the past 10 years. In 2000, they accounted for £183 million of savings and that figure is now £475 million, and they lent £175 million in 2000 compared with £429 million now. That goes to prove the vital role the credit unions play in financial inclusion. To me, coming from the south Wales valleys—I will not use any of the colloquialisms or anecdotes I usually do—financial inclusion is the No. 1 issue.

I was pleased that the hon. Member for East Hampshire mentioned that credit unions often cannot compete with companies that offer massive amounts of interest because they do not have a budget for television advertising during “The Jeremy Kyle Show”, “This Morning” or “Loose Women”, for example. The other problem, which exists in the south Wales valleys as well, is a cultural one. People borrowing from doorstep lenders are used to the woman coming around at 6 o’clock on a Monday night and collecting.

With financial inclusion, we are looking at three issues. First, we must do something about the culture of door-to-door money lending. It is not just the illegal loan shark that we are all concerned about, but Provident, Shopacheck and obscure companies that we have never heard of. This might be outside the remit of the Department for Work and Pensions, but we need to start with financial literacy and do more to encourage credit unions in schools. When I was a kid, we had national savings, and we would save £1 a week. We learnt about the value of money and of saving, and we took the cash out at Christmas to spend on what we wanted. I pay tribute to Islwyn Community Credit Union, which has a scheme in Trinant primary school with more than 45 members. The scheme is a good advertisement, because the children are joining and then the parents are coming along and joining as well—there is a collection point there. The question we must ask is: how do we promote credit unions? When we talk about credit unions, people even in this place do not seem to know what they do, so we have to do more about advertising.

Secondly, and again outside the DWP’s remit, there is the issue of banking. I am a former Lloyds TSB banker, and when the fine Government initiative of the basic bank account was introduced, people working in the banking industry were not interested in it, because it never credit scored for products such as credit cards, loans, or even, to some extent, savings accounts. A lot of work has been done with that account, but I am still concerned that many people in my surgeries tell me about going to loan sharks and companies that offer exorbitant amounts. I ask them, “Why are you borrowing so much money off them when they are clearly ripping you off?” The problem is that they cannot access finance, even simple things such as overdrafts, which anyone might need. They are therefore driven into the hands of these lenders. I recently said to the British Bankers Association: “The way I view it is that there is a massive business opportunity there for you,” and they replied, “The set-up costs would be so high it wouldn’t be worth our while offering £500 or whatever.” So we need to talk about the role that banks can play. Would there be a facility for banks to finance credit unions and to expand that in some way?

The third issue is that we often talk about financial inclusion as being an individual option, as something that seems to happen to an individual or a family, but there are a number of small businesses that cannot access any form of lending. They might be social enterprises and there might be no money in there. I would like to hear more from the Minister about the plans for community development finance initiatives, which lend to small businesses and social enterprises. How can we expand that and make businesses aware of the facility? I did not know what they were until I did some research, so how can a business know about them? We can look at increasing that awareness.

The hon. Member for East Hampshire said that we have an option here. We can support credit unions and make people aware of them. A great thing about living in Wales—I am from there, as is the hon. Member for Brecon and Radnorshire (Roger Williams), who is no longer in his place, and it is a great place—is that everyone has access to a credit union. We can look at the examples there and roll the idea out across the country. It does not really cost anything. If we do not do something now, particularly in these hard financial times when even people with regular jobs find themselves squeezed out, the only option will be to go to the high-lending companies. I agree in many respects with not fixing credit APR, because if we fix it all the other costs will be pushed down on to the consumer. There is an argument for capping the costs of lending, and we can look at things such as not having early repayment penalties and making loans more simplistic.

Another problem that credit unions suffer is one of image. People seem to think that they are only for the most impoverished, those who are cut off, but Islwyn Community Credit Union says that the vast majority of its members have jobs. The key is promoting credit unions to such people as a way of saving and borrowing, and promoting the idea that they are not just for people on benefits.

I have another moan—I am sorry if I am moaning a bit too much. This is an idea not for the DWP to respond to today but I hope that it will be taken back to the Ministry of Justice. When I worked in the bank, I had excellent customers who were paying their mortgage and loans, and I got a lot of business out of them. Then, all of a sudden, a county court judgment would appear on their file, and that would destroy the possibility of their having any facilities whatsoever. When I asked them what the CCJ was, very often they did not know because they thought that they had not defaulted or anything. On investigation, they found out that they were in dispute with Vodafone or Orange or over gym membership, for example, and that a CCJ had been put on them, but they knew nothing about it. It seems mad that somebody’s credit record should be completely destroyed simply because of a dispute with a mobile phone company.

[The Minister of State, Department for Work and Pensions (Chris Grayling)]

I am interested in what the hon. Gentleman has to say, and he is making an important point, but could I clarify something? I am a bit puzzled as to how someone in that position could reach the point of getting a CCJ against them without having received any notification. If that is happening, it is clearly a big concern.

[Chris Evans]

What I have found is that a lot of people have got into arguments with a mobile phone company, for example, because they want to end their contract. They say that they have paid 12 months, but the company says that they have paid only 11 months and that they need to make one more payment—it might be for a silly amount of, say, £30. The two sides have been arguing, but they have reached gridlock, and no money has been paid, so the phone company has threatened to take the person to court. Gym membership is another issue I have come across. People want to end their membership early, but they then get into a dispute with the gym. In many respects, it seems lop-sided that the company has sought a CCJ.

If a consumer is in dispute with a company over a payment, there should be some way of ensuring that the company cannot put a CCJ on them until the issue is resolved; I am talking about tidying up that part of the law. This is very important, but it is not talked about often, so it might be something to look at. These people can be good bank customers, but what can the bank do? It can go only on their credit record. I am not knocking the banks for that. I am asking why companies that should have no effect on people’s credit rating are able to write people off in that way.

I have spoken for longer than I expected, but I believe passionately in credit unions and in expanding them as much as possible. I believe in relaxing the common bond, but I also think it is possible to have a central finance facility—these facilities are used all over the world—that credit unions could access. The Co-op party has told me that such an arrangement would cost about £10 million to £15 million, so it is not a lot. It would increase credit union membership from 750,000 at present to 2 million in five years. It would deliver 100,000 new growth fund loans over five years. It is worth looking at that, and I hope the Minister will give us more information when he responds.

Let me end by thanking every member of the all-party group for showing an interest in this issue. In the economic times in which we find ourselves, financial inclusion really is the most important subject, and I thank everybody for turning up for the debate.

Jobs and the Unemployed

Chris Evans Excerpts

Wednesday 7th July 2010 Commons Chamber

[Chris Evans (Islwyn) (Lab/Co-op)]

Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker, for calling me to speak in this debate, which is important not only for the country but for my constituency. When we face difficult economic times, the primary task of Government is to protect existing jobs and to provide all possible assistance to get people who are out of work back into employment. If not tackled, unemployment can have long-term effects on society. It destroys communities, ruins lives and tears the very heart and fabric of society.

I was brought up in the south Wales valleys and I well remember my first day at secondary school in 1987. I remember a teacher saying to me, “I’ve one tip for you, boy.” I said, “What’s that?” He said, “Have no ambition, because nobody from round here ever amounts to anything. If you’re lucky, you’ll have a job in a factory—if there are any factories left when you leave school—but most probably you’ll be signing on.” For me, that summed up the attitude of the Tory Government in the 1980s, and I have not come to this place to see that happen ever again.

I must tell the House that it has been only in the past few years that our communities in the valleys have begun to recover, with the confidence that new jobs bring. Without the right Government support to encourage job creation, we risk repeating the mistakes of the past. To ensure we develop the right environment for new jobs to be created, it is vital that we maintain growth.

The Government have been keen to express sympathy for those facing unemployment. For Ministers, describing unemployment as a “tragedy” and mentioning helping the “forgotten millions” of unemployed workers into jobs might come easy, but it is action that counts. In contrast to those sentiments, the Government’s main labour market policy so far has been to cut support for unemployed people. The Government claim that the measures they are taking are necessary—after all, their tough words about getting people off benefits and into work will be meaningless if there are no jobs to get people into.

To create real jobs we need real investment across the country. Getting unemployment down requires two things: businesses must offer more jobs and the unemployed must have the necessary skills to enable them to take the new jobs as they become available. That means that the Government must invest in people and create the environment in which the private sector can invest to create jobs. If we cut too quickly, we will leave no room for the Government to work with the private sector and make job creation possible. We need a real partnership between Government and the private sector. That requires the Government to spend money to create jobs. The question is how we can minimise job losses and prevent another lost generation in constituencies such as mine.

The Government believe that if they cut public sector employment and slash departmental spending, the private sector will ride to the rescue and fill the void. They seem to have forgotten, however, that many private sector jobs are dependent on Government contracts. If departmental spending is slashed, those contracts are vulnerable, as are the jobs that depend on them. If we do not think seriously about the scale of cuts, there is a real risk that they will remove vital support for private sector industry and, crucially, for private sector jobs. Equally, however, it is vital that as companies develop, their employees’ sets of skills develop, too.

That is where Train to Gain has been so important. Across the country, 1.3 million people go to work every day without the skills that they need to do their jobs well. That affects productivity and limits how successful those employees can be. Often, though, employers are unwilling or unable to provide the extra training needed for their staff to realise their potential. It is only when the Government offer assistance that training opportunities can be realised and employees can fulfil their potential. It is therefore critical to our economic future that we invest in training and upskilling our people. In the US, 80% of people in work have been back in a training situation since leaving school. In Germany and Japan, the figure is 56%, but it is only 30% here. That is the measure of how far we still have to travel to improve training and opportunities for our people.

Train to Gain benefits both employers, by increasing the abilities of their workers, and employees, by giving them the skills they need to succeed. That in turn is good for the whole country and for our economic future. The Welsh Assembly Government—the only Labour-led Administration in the UK—have introduced ProAct, a progressive scheme that offers funding for employee training and a wage subsidy while the training is being undertaken. Companies are eligible for ProAct money only when they are on short-time working and when, without ProAct funding, the company would have to consider redundancies. ProAct not only keeps people employed when they might otherwise be made redundant but gives employees a wider skills base, meaning that companies can use quiet periods to upskill their staff. That is precisely the sort of thing that should be happening across the United Kingdom. It has a positive impact for employers, employees and the wider economy.

In addition, to help employers to keep people in work, the Government also need to help those who are currently out of work. It is particularly important that we get young people who have never been employed into their first jobs. That is why the young person’s guarantee and the future jobs fund were so crucial, yet that flagship policy has been scrapped.

The Government claim that their new Work programme will meet the needs of unemployed workers. However, there are several flaws to that argument. Nearly 2.5 million people are unemployed now, and the impact of the cuts is that less support will be available to them and any other people who lose their jobs over the next year. In addition, the Work programme is essentially replacing the flexible new deal initiative. The experience provided by the future jobs fund and the guarantees was in addition to new deal measures. So far, no details are available on the funding for the Work programme. It seems likely that, even when it is introduced, overall investment in tackling unemployment may fall.

At the end of March 2011, the future jobs funds will have funded more than 100,000 jobs, the majority of which will have gone to 18 to 24-year-olds who have been out of work for six months. Given that the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions has said that he wants to get young people off benefits and into work, it absolutely beggars belief that one of the first acts was to cut a scheme that does exactly that.

I should like to take this opportunity to point out to the Secretary of State that, if people are to be asked to travel to find work, it is vital that transport links are good enough to support them in doing so. In south Wales, there is no train link between Newport and Islwyn. Although there are plans to establish such a link by opening the Gaer junction, there is still no timetable for doing so. I ask the Government to ensure that that project goes ahead, so that the people of Islwyn and Blaenau Gwent can commute to work in Newport and the surrounding areas.

We should be striving for growth, but the Budget will mean lower growth and more unemployment. The Government are making the wrong decisions in all those areas, and it shows me that they believe, as they believed in the 1980s, that unemployment is a price worth paying to cut the deficit. [Hon. Members: “Oh!”] Yes, they think that unemployment is a price worth paying.

[Nick de Bois (Enfield North) (Con)]

Will the hon. Gentleman give way?

--- Later in debate ---

[Chris Evans]

No, I am making progress.

Those of us who represent areas that lost out the last time that the Tories were in government know that the cost of unemployment is too high. I urge the Government to reconsider before they condemn areas such as mine to large-scale unemployment all over again.