Israel and Palestine

Cat Smith Excerpts

Monday 8th January 2024 Commons Chamber

[Mr Mitchell]

I do not think that the two situations are analogous, but I do think it is very important that we do everything we can to help the children and the others in Gaza whom the hon. Lady describes, and we will continue to do exactly that.

[Cat Smith (Lancaster and Fleetwood) (Lab)]

Further to that question, we know that children are seven times more likely than adults to be killed by blast injuries and that 1,000 children have lost one or both legs in the last three months in Gaza. The scars that Gazan children are bearing from this war will be long-lasting, so does the Minister agree that to have that two-state solution—that long and lasting peace—we need to step up as part of an international community to defend Gazan children?

[Mr Mitchell]

The plight of Gazan children will weigh heavily on all decent people on all sides of the argument being expressed in the House this afternoon. The Government will continue to do everything we can, but in terms of the long-term point the hon. Lady made about the two-state solution, all of our diplomatic and political efforts are bent towards trying to secure that.

Israel and Palestine

Cat Smith Excerpts

Monday 11th December 2023 Westminster Hall

[Cat Smith (Lancaster and Fleetwood) (Lab)]

I beg to move,

That this House has considered e-petitions 648225, 648383 and 648292 relating to Israel and Palestine.

It is a great accomplishment to reach the threshold of over 100,000 signatures for a petition to be considered for debate. I wish to congratulate the petitioners—Husnain Iqbal, Shihab Osmani and Ibnan Ali—who are in the Public Gallery, for starting the petitions that we are debating. From my meetings with the petitioners, I am aware that this is the first time that they have used our e-petition system. I hope that they will see that their engagement with Parliament has led to today’s debate and that they are pleased with the discussion.

Since the sickening Hamas terror attack on 7 October, we have all been gripped by the unfolding tragedy: the grief of those who have lost family members who were among the more than 1,200 killed in the terrorist attack, and the civilians, many of whom are children, who have been displaced, injured and killed in Gaza. The humanitarian crisis deepens—an estimated 17,700 people have lost their lives in Gaza, according to the Gaza Health Ministry—and so this debate is timely and important. We will consider how the UK should respond immediately to the humanitarian need and how it should begin to look to building a sustainable peace.

Before I was elected to this House, I had the privilege of visiting Israel and the occupied west bank. Although I did not visit Gaza, I was able to visit Jerusalem. I was inspired by the Palestinian and Israeli citizens I met, who are dedicated to working to build peace. Just as those inspiring individuals worked and continue to work for peace, during this debate, a Parliamentarians for Peace candlelit vigil will be held just outside this place, in New Palace Yard. That event will aim to promote peace and a recognition of our common humanity, as well as marking international Human Rights Day—that was yesterday, 10 December—and the 75th anniversary of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights being adopted by the United Nations General Assembly. I know that many colleagues wanted to take part in this debate and in the Parliamentarians for Peace vigil. Indeed, with the devastating loss of life in the middle east, Ukraine and other wars across the world, we must use our positions as elected representatives of the people to strengthen calls for peace.

This debate must begin by roundly condemning the brutal Hamas terrorist attack. We hold the family and friends of the more than 1,200 who have been killed, and the estimated 138 who remain hostages, in our thoughts and prayers. We also remember all those who have lost loved ones in the conflict and stand with all those who feel threatened and unsafe in the UK, because of the rise in antisemitism and Islamophobia resulting from events in the middle east. The petitioners have asked me to remind the House that, when we approach this conflict, we must absolutely condemn the terror attack, but must also remember that the history of the conflict did not begin on 7 October. That means that the UK has a particular role to play, given its historic part in the Balfour declaration.

The debate today concerns three petitions. The first calls for the UK to remain neutral in the Israel-Palestine conflict and withdraw support for Israel. The second urges the Israeli Government to allow fuel, electricity and food into Gaza. The third calls on the Government to seek a ceasefire and an end to Israeli occupation in the west bank and Gaza strip.

I turn to the position of the Government and other petitioners. Although the petitions each call for different actions, they share a call for the protection of lives, British humanitarian support and the upholding of international law. In the wake of the terrorist attack and Israel’s military response, the Government have defended Israel’s right to self-defence in line with international law, have provided aid to Israel and significantly increased aid to Palestine, have reiterated a commitment to a two-state solution, and—in the strongest words—condemned the west bank settlements.

I want to see a lasting peace in Israel and in Palestine. The first step to building peace is the laying down of weapons. That is why I voted for a ceasefire, out of concern for the dire humanitarian situation for the people of Palestine, particularly the vulnerable, who are caught up in the crossfire of this conflict.

[Debbie Abrahams (Oldham East and Saddleworth) (Lab)]

I congratulate my hon. Friend on making such a powerful speech. Was she as disappointed as I was on Friday when the United Nations Security Council failed to support a ceasefire, in particular as the result of the UK abstaining on that matter and not providing the support that was needed for that resolution?

[Cat Smith]

I thank my hon. Friend for that intervention and for the work she is doing on the Parliamentarians for Peace vigil that will happen in about 25 minutes. I share her disappointment at the outcome of that vote.

[Paul Bristow (Peterborough) (Con)]

I appreciate the hon. Member giving way. She talked about her support for a ceasefire. Does she recognise, as I do, that the temporary truce that we have recently seen in Gaza led to about 80 hostages being released, to an end to the bombings, and to hundreds, if not thousands, of lives being saved? We gave peace a chance. Does she agree that the best way to secure a lasting peace settlement and an end to innocent lives being lost in both Gaza and Israel is the push for a permanent ceasefire in Gaza?

[Cat Smith]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for his intervention and I share the feelings that he has just expressed. In fact, he pre-empts the contribution that I was about to make, which is that the temporary ceasefire last week was a brief respite for the 1.8 million people displaced in Gaza, and therefore it was that opportunity for aid provision to come in and for the release of hostages. However, unless there is a permanent ceasefire, we will never find a permanent peace.

There is no doubt that it was incredibly moving to see the videos of families being reunited, and it is impossible to imagine the fear and the worry of the families of those who remain hostages. However, as Israel continues to seek to destroy the terrorists Hamas, the fear and threat of injury and death continue. The temporary ceasefire was merely a brief respite and as the conflict continues, the needs of the displaced and injured people in Gaza are increasing. We need to address that through aid and through diplomacy.

[Andrew Western (Stretford and Urmston) (Lab)]

On that point about moving past the temporary truce, we are now 10 days on from that and it occurs to me—I wonder whether my hon. Friend concurs—that there is no clear strategy from Government as to how we, as the UK, can help to prevent the suffering of innocent Palestinian civilians and end the violence we are all witnessing. To that end, does she share my hope that when the Minister responds to the debate, he will set out exactly what the Government are doing with international partners now to break what seems to have become a diplomatic stalemate following the truce, and bring about the permanent ceasefire that is surely the only way to bring this devastating situation to an end?

[Cat Smith]

I share the—

[Sir Mark Hendrick (in the Chair)]

Order. As I said before, this is quite a long debate, but that being said we have a lot of people here. Can we keep interventions brief? Thank you.

[Cat Smith]

Thank you, Sir Mark, and I hope, as my hon. Friend the Member for Stretford and Urmston (Andrew Western) does, that the Minister can respond with more details of the commitments the Government are planning to make in order to work with the international community to bring about that lasting peace.

I say that because we must look to the future and any solution to this conflict must be a solution that respects the human rights of both Israelis and Palestinians, and establishes a statehood solution that includes ending the intolerable settlements in the west bank.

[Tommy Sheppard (Edinburgh East) (SNP)]

To go back to the question of neutrality, there may have been a position some years ago whereby the United Kingdom Government could have said that they were taking a neutral and balanced position on the conflict in the middle east, but is it not the case that the result of last Friday’s vote at the United Nations now puts the United Kingdom as an outlier in world opinion—alone, with the United States of America—in not calling for a ceasefire? Does that not demonstrate the need for this petition to be recognised and for the United Kingdom to return to a position of neutrality rather than support for the war?

[Cat Smith]

I can see that the Minister has heard that intervention and I think that it is probably something that he might like to respond to my colleague on in his remarks.

[Afzal Khan (Manchester, Gorton) (Lab)]

I add my congratulations to the petitioners. Yesterday marked the 75th anniversary of the universal declaration of human rights. Does my hon. Friend agree with me that it is unthinkable that the world can commemorate that significant day while denying Palestinian human rights? We are seeing thousands of civilians—men, women, children; doctors, journalists, poets—all being murdered by Israeli forces for no crime other than being Palestinian. Humanity cannot be applied selectively.

[Cat Smith]

My hon. Friend is right to draw the House’s attention to the 75th anniversary of the universal declaration of human rights, which was born out of a tragedy that was almost unspeakable in its scale. That is something that is probably at the forefront of all our minds, and certainly should be in this debate.

I take heed of your warning, Sir Mark, about many colleagues wanting to speak and will draw my remarks to a close so that we can hear from as many colleagues as possible, and as fully as possible, during this debate. As parliamentarians, we can never return the lives of those who have been lost, but we must use our positions as elected representatives to help to prevent further loss of life, by calling for peace and working to provide vital humanitarian aid. I look forward to hearing the contributions from colleagues today.

[Several hon. Members rose—]

--- Later in debate ---

[Cat Smith]

It is a bold thing for any citizen to do to start an e-petition on the Government’s website, and I thank our petitioners for sitting through our debate today. I do not know whether they appreciated the Minister’s response or perhaps have further questions for him—it is difficult to read the body language in this Chamber—but what is clear and has come across from all colleagues is that all our inboxes have been full on this issue, and it is very clear that the petitions surpassed the 100,000 mark very quickly. With 600,000 people signing the three petitions, we secured time to debate the issue in the House. That is something that was achieved by citizens in this country. Something that my hon. Friend the Member for Hammersmith (Andy Slaughter) has been attempting to secure through business questions was achieved by citizens, and that is testament to the e-petitions procedure. I would encourage anyone watching to fully engage in that process.

There are plenty of things that we can disagree on in this Chamber and in this debate, but there are some things that we can agree on. The pain, the death and the suffering on both sides is something that has touched all our hearts, and the unimaginable acts of terror that have been experienced by citizens, both Israeli and Palestinian, have definitely affected all of us. I do not believe that a military solution will ever be successful; I believe that peace is only ever won when weapons are laid down.

It is always a bit dangerous in this House to go off script a little bit, and I had not planned to say this, but something that struck me in this debate was that it is very challenging to raise a child with dual heritage. My son tonight will be lighting Hanukkah candles with his father back in Lancaster. He understands that he has a Jewish identity, and that his mother has a Christian identity. A few weeks ago, we were at a peace vigil in Lancaster with a friend of ours who is a Muslim. The three of us were holding hands, mainly because he is a five-year-old boy and has a tendency to run away, and he looked up and said, “Mummy, you are a Christian, I’m Jewish”—sometimes he says he is Christian, but I suppose that is the challenge of having dual heritage—“and”, looking at our friend, Fabina, “you are a Muslim. Isn’t it nice that we all love each other?”

I am really saddened by what happened next. We had to leave the peace vigil because some people started chanting things that were antisemitic. It is important in this debate that we remember that regardless of our religious heritage or cultural identity, we are all citizens on this planet and we need to come together to find peace. It will be challenging and painful, and things will be said that hurt every one of us, but I hope that the three hours we have spent in Westminster Hall today might be the start of something in this House through which we can understand the complexities of these different identities and the challenges that we will have to find peace. I hope we find that peace, Mr McCabe.

Question put and agreed to.

Resolved,

That this House has considered e-petitions 648225, 648383 and 648292 relating to Israel and Palestine.

Occupied Palestinian Territories: Humanitarian Situation

Cat Smith Excerpts

Wednesday 8th November 2023 Commons Chamber

[Mr Mitchell]

In respect of the hon. Lady’s last point, I am not sure I can add to what I have already told the House, but I am very relieved to hear about her constituent. I will pass on her thanks to both the Prime Minister and the Foreign Secretary.

[Cat Smith (Lancaster and Fleetwood) (Lab)]

The only route to long-term peace is a two-state solution. The Minister has said in response to other questions that Gaza will look radically different at the end of this conflict, but can he commit to making representations to his Israeli counterparts that all those displaced in Gaza will be able to return?

[Mr Mitchell]

The hon. Lady rightly identifies the importance of getting back to the two-state solution, which is the policy of the British Government and has repeatedly been the policy of British Governments. She may rest assured that Britain, along with its allies, is absolutely focused on the wellbeing of the people of Gaza and their future. It is very important to make clear that Hamas is not the Palestinians.

Oral Answers to Questions

Cat Smith Excerpts

Tuesday 18th July 2023 Commons Chamber

[Leo Docherty]

The idea of an international day of play is very important, and we take it seriously. I will pick the matter up with the noble Lord Ahmad and keep in touch with my hon. Friend.

[Cat Smith (Lancaster and Fleetwood) (Lab)]

T9. In the past decade, more than 1.7 billion people have been affected by climate disasters through displacement, drought and food insecurity. The climate crisis is both creating and aggravating humanitarian emergencies. Where is the ambitious strategy for UK aid to build resilience and offset the implications of climate breakdown?

[Mr Mitchell]

The hon. Lady is right to identify climate change as the great existential crisis of this era. Two weeks ago we had the hottest temperature seen in the world ever on the Monday; it was then exceeded on Wednesday and exceeded again on Thursday. One way we have changed how humanitarian work is done is by building in more adaptation and resilience when we deploy humanitarian support, and we will go on doing that.

Oral Answers to Questions

Cat Smith Excerpts

Tuesday 8th November 2022 Commons Chamber

[Cat Smith (Lancaster and Fleetwood) (Lab)]

14. What assessment he has made of the implications for his policies of the recent protests in Iran.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Affairs (David Rutley)]

The death of Mahsa Amini and of all those who have lost their lives standing up to the authorities is a tragedy that shows the regime’s shocking disregard for the rights of the Iranian people. We have made our views clear to Iran in the strongest possible terms. We have robustly condemned Iran’s actions, including at the UN Human Rights Council, and we have sanctioned the morality police and seven other officials responsible for human rights violations.

--- Later in debate ---

[David Rutley]

The hon. Member has made some important points about the grassroots nature of the protests. As I have said, we are taking strong action against the Iranians, but I will raise her points specifically with Lord Ahmad, the Minister for the Middle East.

[Cat Smith]

I recently met a group of Iranian refugees and asylum seekers at Global Link in Lancaster. They shared with me testimony and videos of the protests and the women across Iran who are daily putting their lives at risk for their fundamental rights. Does the Minister accept that the UK has a responsibility to support these remarkable women, and can he explain how the UK intends to do so?

[David Rutley]

They are indeed remarkable women, and we want to underline the fact that these are grassroots protests in Iran. We have taken strong action: we have sanctioned the morality police in its entirety, as well as both its chief and the head of the Tehran division. However, it is not our practice to speculate on future sanctions designations, as doing so would reduce the impact of those designations.

Women’s Rights to Reproductive Healthcare: United States

Cat Smith Excerpts

Tuesday 28th June 2022 Commons Chamber

[Amanda Milling]

As I have said on several occasions—I am not sure how many different ways I can make the point—this is not a matter for us and we have no jurisdiction. However, I have been clear that it is not a decision that I agree with. I see it as a backward step. The Prime Minister was clear on that at the weekend as well.

[Cat Smith (Lancaster and Fleetwood) (Lab)]

I agree with the Minister that this is a backward—a retrograde—step. Perhaps it is an opportunity for us to take a forward step and show leadership by looking at our own laws. At the moment, abortion is legislated for under a law that was brought in 50 years before women even had the vote—the Offences Against the Person Act 1861. What conversations is she having with her colleagues in Government about decriminalising abortions in this country?

[Amanda Milling]

We have a proud record in this country of being able to stand up for women’s rights and of having debates on all matters relating to abortion. As we have heard, we have debated, and voted, on a number of occasions in relation to abortion legislation in this country.

Oral Answers to Questions

Cat Smith Excerpts

Tuesday 21st June 2022 Commons Chamber

[Vicky Ford]

My hon. Friend is right that the case should be investigated. We are grateful to the Brazilian authorities for their help and engagement to date. There has been very close contact between, for example, the local and national police with our embassy team on the ground. It is really important that those who committed this heinous crime are held to account.

[Cat Smith (Lancaster and Fleetwood) (Lab)]

I put on the record my condolences to the family of Lancaster-born Dom Phillips. What steps is the Department taking to support Dom’s family through diplomatic means at this difficult time?

--- Later in debate ---

[Elizabeth Truss]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right; that is a vital issue. We are seeing attempts by Russia to destabilise the western Balkans. I recently visited Sarajevo, as has the Minister for Europe and North America, to do what we can to support the country through greater investment, so that there are alternatives to malign investment, and to make clear our support for security in the nation.

[Cat Smith (Lancaster and Fleetwood) (Lab)]

T5. Last week marked the 15th anniversary of Israel’s blockade of Gaza, which has caused a humanitarian crisis in the region. Will the Minister condemn the ongoing blockade and outline what steps the UK is taking to try to bring it to an end?

[The Minister for Asia and the Middle East (Amanda Milling)]

As it happens, after this session I will be travelling to Israel and the Occupied Palestinian Territories, which will obviously be a good opportunity to explore a number of different issues and our bilateral relationship with Israel.

Sanctions

Cat Smith Excerpts

Monday 28th February 2022 Commons Chamber

[Elizabeth Truss]

My right hon. Friend is correct. We know that Putin does not just want to take over Ukraine and restore Russian hegemony over it; he wants to turn the clock back to the mid-1990s, when vast swathes of eastern Europe were under Russian control. That is one of the many reasons why it is so important that his ambitions stop in Ukraine. It is why we are not only supporting the Ukrainians but increasing our strength on the eastern flank. We have doubled the number of troops in Estonia and our allies are also stepping up to support the Baltic states, who are vital allies of the United Kingdom.

[Cat Smith (Lancaster and Fleetwood) (Lab)]

I welcome the sanctions that the Foreign Secretary has set out and her words about getting Putin’s dirty money out of UK finance, but can we also get it out of UK politics? Would she support the Conservative party’s handing back its £2 million from Russian oligarchs?

[Elizabeth Truss]

There is a big difference between Russian people and supporters of the Putin regime. It is important that we do not tar every single Russian, many of whom have gained British citizenship and are part of our political process, with the same brush.

Elections Bill

Cat Smith Excerpts

Report stage
Monday 17th January 2022 Commons Chamber

[Kemi Badenoch]

The Government are committed to increasing participation in our democracy and empowering all those eligible to vote to do so in a secure, efficient and effective way. An important part of that is ensuring that electoral services—be they registering to vote, applying for an absent vote or applying for a voter card—are as convenient and accessible as possible. To that end, we have tabled new clause 11 and new schedule 1 to provide powers to introduce an online absent vote application service and an online voter card application service. These amendments also provide similar powers for such applications in Northern Ireland.

As it stands, it is not possible for electors to apply for an absent vote online. Electors who wish to apply for an absent vote must do so via a paper form that they must submit to their local electoral registration officer via post. New clause 11 and new schedule 1 will enable the identity of applicants using those services to be verified, as well as identity verification for paper absent vote applications, as is already the case for registration applications. That includes powers to enable real-time identity verification—that is, identity verification while an applicant is in the process of completing their application—for voter card applications, absent vote applications and registration applications.

That issue was raised in Committee by the hon. Member for Lancaster and Fleetwood (Cat Smith). The Government agreed in principle with her points and committed to considering an online service for electors to make applications for an absent vote once further work was done to understand how best to implement such a service. That commitment is being honoured here with the tabling of amendments to provide powers to introduce an online absent vote application service.

[Cat Smith (Lancaster and Fleetwood) (Lab)]

I thank the Minister for being receptive to the points that were raised in Committee about putting many more of the ways in which we engage with democracy online. I wonder if she has had time to reflect on whether the Government may have gained advantage from pre-legislative scrutiny on the Bill, because it strikes me that not only did the instruction order after Second Reading bring forward parts of the Bill that were not given scrutiny by the full House, but there have also been a huge amount of Government amendments at this late stage. What reflections does she have on the ways in which she might consult the House on constitutional matters before bringing forward Bills in future?

[Kemi Badenoch]

I have nothing further to add to what we discussed in Committee. I understand the hon. Lady’s point—we want our legislation to be as rigorous and robust as possible. I hope that the open relationship that she and I had when she was shadowing me is one that I will be able to continue with her successors. That is how we will get very good legislation on the statute books.

As I was saying, that commitment is being honoured here with the tabling of amendments to provide powers to introduce an online absent vote application service. That will include a process by which the identity of absent vote applicants can be verified. The identity verification process will be made to apply to paper applications as well as to applications made online.

--- Later in debate ---

[Kemi Badenoch]

That is a good question. It is something that we discussed in Committee and we decided that the best way to do that would be through secondary legislation. We did debate what the thresholds were, but this is something that can be resolved when further detail comes out in secondary legislation. I look forward to hearing the hon. Gentleman’s comments at that stage.

As I was saying, amendments 82, 84 and 87 will help ensure clarity to both electors and polling station staff as to which forms of identification will be accepted. In line with other registration decisions, amendment 74 introduces an appeal process against the refusal of an application for a voter card or absent vote.

Finally, on this group of Government amendments, amendments 49 to 50, 76 to 79, 89, 90, 92, 93, 96, 105 and 108 seek to provide the chief electoral officer of Northern Ireland with the ability to provide confidential lists of dates of birth to polling stations at all elections in Northern Ireland, which will facilitate the implementation of existing provisions.

[Cat Smith]

Before the Minister moves on, I just wonder whether she, since taking up her post, has had a chance to meet the Association of Electoral Administrators, which has raised the concern that it is already quite difficult to recruit volunteers to staff polling stations. Its concern is that being asked to check these forms of ID will be a disincentive for volunteers to come forward because of the potential conflict between a voter whose ID is not valid and the volunteer who is staffing the polling station. Has she discussed that with the Association of Electoral Administrators, and if so, how did that conversation go?

--- Later in debate ---

[Brendan O'Hara]

I think the hon. Gentleman is confusing private rights and public rights. There are public health issues around the consumption of alcohol and the purchase of cigarettes. These are exactly the same debates as we had in 1967, when there were fears about taking a step into the unknown. What is different now, as I said, is that it is not a step into the unknown. It has been proven to work. Why should young people in England and Northern Ireland have different rights from those in Wales and Scotland?

When we had our referendum in 2014, 90% of 16 and 17-year-olds registered to vote and 75% of them turned out to vote on the day. As the hon. Member for Nottingham North said, studies showed that young people had investigated the issues and had multiple sources of information, and many were far better acquainted with the issues than were their parents or grandparents. To go back to the point made by the hon. Member for Bath (Wera Hobhouse), if we look at the age of the people leading the fight against climate change and the demonstrators at COP26, we see that overwhelmingly they were young people making their voices heard above everybody else’s. That tells us all we need to know.

[Cat Smith]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for his kind remarks. It was a pleasure to serve on the Bill Committee with him. He and his colleague the hon. Member for Glasgow North (Patrick Grady) did as much as to scrutinise every line of the Bill as I and my hon. Friend the Member for Putney (Fleur Anderson) did.

The hon. Gentleman talks about extending the franchise to 16 and 17-year-olds. Much of the case made for the Bill has been about making our democracy more secure. One of the ways we can make our democracy more secure is by encouraging more people to participate in it. The more people are voting, the harder it is to swing an election unfairly. That is what we heard in the evidence given to the Bill Committee. Does he agree, therefore, that extending the franchise to 16 and 17-year-olds, who will go on to develop a far stronger commitment to voting, will actually strengthen our democracy against foreign interference in British politics?

[Brendan O'Hara]

The hon. Lady is absolutely spot-on. As she says, we heard from many witnesses who said that the wider the franchise and the more the people who vote, the less there can be untoward interference.

Why are the UK Government so opposed to giving 16 and 17-year-olds the vote? Unfortunately, the Minister for Levelling Up Communities is no longer in her place. In Committee, I hoped to find out why she thought it was okay for Scotland and Wales, but not for England and Northern Ireland. Her reply to me was:

“There is no need for me to rehash the arguments. I ask him to ask his parliamentary researcher to research Hansard.”––[Official Report, Elections Public Bill Committee, 26 October 2021; c. 371.]

That was a Minister’s response on this very issue in Committee, and I am sorry she is no longer in her place to correct it.

--- Later in debate ---

[Cat Smith]

Has my right hon. Friend read the transcript of our Committee hearings? I hope that the Minister has had a chance to read the Russia report, because it is imperative for all of us to be well aware of the security threats that face our democracy.

[Liam Byrne]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right. The point is that I can raise questions here that warrant further investigation—questions about, for example, Lubov Chernukhin, the model of generosity who has given the Conservatives £2.1 million, £1.9 million of it after her husband Vladimir—the same Vladimir who was appointed by Mr Putin’s deputy chairman of Vnesheconombank—received money from Suleiman Kerimov. This was a man who was later sanctioned by the United States Treasury, and not only for being a Russian Government official: he was arrested in France for smuggling in hundreds of millions of euros in suitcases.

Then there is Mr Temerko, another honourable man, who has donated £1.2 million to the Conservative party. I am told that the Prime Minister’s whiff-whaff bats are on the wall of his reception room. The only slight issue is that Mr Temerko is the man who used to operate at the very top of the Russian arms industry, with connections high up in the Kremlin—but, of course, Mr Temerko is an honourable man. He works with another honourable man, Mr Fedotov, who is a key shareholder in Aquind Ltd, which, The Guardian reports, has donated £700,000 to the Conservative party, along with another firm. This is, unfortunately, the same Mr Fedotov who, according to the Pandora papers, has revealed that his fortune was made through an offshore financial structure in the mid-2000s, at about the time when it was alleged to have been siphoning funds from the Russian state pipeline company Transneft. But, of course, Mr Fedotov is an honourable man.

--- Later in debate ---

We always talk about electoral participation, but we also want to encourage participation among candidates. We should take steps to remove any barrier to people saying, “Yeah, I’m going to get involved. I’m going to be a candidate.” The proposal would still demonstrate locality but would protect candidates from the Hobson’s choice of being outside the constituency, albeit by 100 yards, or having to display their full postal address. I would be grateful if the Government took away that point and thought about it. This is a strong Bill that deals with thorny and important issues head-on and I fully support it.

[Cat Smith]

I begin by disagreeing with the hon. Member for Broadland (Jerome Mayhew). I do not feel that the Bill has had sufficient time to be properly scrutinised by the House. This is the first time that we have had the opportunity to discuss the legislation since the publication of the PACAC report. There are members of that Committee who have yet to speak and the time is now 8.45 pm. I flag to the Minister that if that is her approach to constitutional Bills, she will not bring the whole House with her, which is a dangerous precedent to set.

On amendment 1, which would remove the voter ID clause in the Bill, many Opposition Members have clearly set out the case. Ultimately, it comes down to what is proportionate. Obviously, cases of voter fraud should be pursued by the police and the Electoral Commission, and our police forces should have the resources to be able to pursue those people to get justice, but is the requirement to show photo ID proportionate to the scale of the crimes that are happening?

In 2019 there were only 34 allegations of impersonation, which is probably the widest way that we can look at it, which works out as 0.000058% of all the votes cast. As was pointed out by the shadow Minister, my hon. Friend the Member for Nottingham North (Alex Norris), who made such a good first appearance at the Dispatch Box on this topic, someone is more likely to be struck by lightning three times.

I flag that while Neil Coughlan is waiting to have his case heard by the Supreme Court, there is a question mark over the way in which the pilot trials were conducted. I urge the Minister to take a closer look at that case and assess whether this is the right time. The PACAC report was clear that the measures are being rushed through and that, with cases still before the courts, it is not a sound way to legislate.

If the Government want to fulfil their manifesto commitment to ensure votes for overseas electors, they can do so by decoupling the permission to donate, because that seems to be where the tension is in the House. If the Minister is seeking to bring about compromise on this important Bill, she could do that by accepting new clause 2.

On the Electoral Commission, it is right that it is accountable to us in this House. Throughout the proceedings on the Bill, Ministers have stood up and said that Ministers can make strategic statements for other bodies, but this is a body that regulates political parties, and the party of Government gets to decide the strategic direction for the Electoral Commission, which would then be challengeable in the courts.

There is nowhere else globally—I have tried to find an example—where that happens. Our democracy most closely mirrors New Zealand, Australia and Canada, whose electoral commissions are independent. It is important that the voters have confidence in an independent Electoral Commission. This Bill will throw that into doubt, and by throwing that into doubt we are throwing the confidence in our democracy into doubt.

I wish that I had longer to speak, because there is an awful lot that I would like to say about a pattern of behaviour that has been emerging over the last decade from this Conservative Government, including the introduction of individual electoral registration. We lose 2 million voters and that is the snapshot they use to propose a boundary change to reduce the number of MPs to 600. Then a general election throws up some different results and suddenly we are back up to 650 MPs. We look at the Owen Paterson affair, which involved changing the rules to protect their mates. Democracy in this country is a precious thing. It is under threat globally.

[Ian Lavery]

Does my hon. Friend agree that this Bill is not really about updating electoral law? It is about driving a bulldozer through the electoral processes of this country, demolishing our democracy, disenfranchising 6 million trade unionists, disenfranchising charities and vulnerable people, and moving them away from voting in this country, rather than towards democratic process.

[Cat Smith]

I completely agree with my hon. Friend. This should have been a Bill to solidify and make our electoral laws more simple and straightforward, but it actually adds an extra layer of complexity.

Criminalising political protest through the Police, Crime, Sentencing and Courts Bill, removing the 15-year rule, which opens our democracy to foreign money, and gagging unions and charities from campaigning in elections while making it easier for foreign money to flood our political systems demonstrate a pattern of behaviour from this Government that is undermining democracy in this country.

I believe that the Minister is a good person, and that the previous Minister is a good person. When the previous Minister gave evidence to PACAC, she made it clear that she would not give political direction to the Electoral Commission, but she was not the Minister forever, and the Minister who sits here today will not be the Minister forever. The Conservatives will not be in government forever. We need to ensure that when we in this House legislate, we prepare for the worst-case scenario. If a fascist or far-right party got control, and we had set up structures that allowed it to ride roughshod over our democracy, could we honestly say that we had done a good job? I do not think so.

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Nigel Evans)]

I call John McDonnell. There will be no time limit, but he must resume his seat no later than 8.55.

Elections Bill (Eleventh sitting)

Cat Smith Excerpts

Committee stage
Tuesday 26th October 2021 Public Bill Committees

[Patrick Grady]

Like the Labour Front-Bench team, SNP Members have warned repeatedly about the chilling effect that the Bill as a whole will have on political participation. We have gone through the clauses that suppress turnout; we have gone through the clauses that weaken oversight of elections; and now we are on to clauses that will deter organisations with legitimate interests from contributing to debate and policy development, though that is what happens during general elections.

The intervention made by the hon. Member for Newcastle-under-Lyme was very telling. His point was that charities should be seen and not heard—the patrician attitude was that charities do beneficent works, helping poor unfortunate souls, maybe contributing to the Government’s levelling-up agenda, or maybe not, and while doing all the hard work must live with the consequences of the policies made by Governments of whatever colour. That includes SNP Governments in Scotland; there will be organisations that are highly critical of some aspects of SNP Government policy—but so they should be, as the point of a vibrant third sector is to contribute to policy debate.

Most charitable organisations that I have come into contact with in my professional career, both in that sector and as a politician, ultimately do not want to exist. They are there to solve problems, and they do so by providing immediate relief and support to people who require it, but they also want to tackle the underlying policies that have caused those problems. The best time to do that is at election time, when decisions are made and when power really is in the hands of the people and the voters. Of course those organisations want to seek pledges from individual politicians. They are not necessarily seeking to influence political parties as a whole. They are certainly not telling their supporters which party to vote for. First, they are not allowed to, but even if they were, they are not going to tell their supporters and donors which party to vote for, because by definition these are cross-party organisations that draw support from a wide range of people across society, and doing so would be counterproductive.

It is crucial for our democracy, however, to allow these organisations to encourage supporters and donors, educate the people who support their cause, and engage with decision makers. If that means extracting pledges from candidates on a constituency-by-constituency basis, then good for them. If that means that candidates from whatever party get elected and are then held to account for signing a pledge or supporting a policy in the election, so much the better. When we have mass lobby days here in Westminster—there are a few lined up this week, now that covid restrictions are easing—Members of Parliament from all the political parties come along to demonstrate their support for a charitable cause. Yes, sometimes there is weight in one direction or the other, but inevitably the best way to drive political change is to achieve cross-party consensus. That is what these organisations are often trying to do, but the clause will have the chilling effect of which the hon. Member for Putney spoke.

[Cat Smith (Lancaster and Fleetwood) (Lab)]

When we heard the intervention from the hon. Member for Newcastle-under-Lyme, was the hon. Gentleman reminded, as I was, of Desmond Tutu’s words:

“There comes a point where we need to stop just pulling people out of the river…We need to go upstream and find out why they’re falling in”?

Is that not the philosophy of the charities that the hon. Gentleman has worked with? Certainly the charities that I have worked with in my constituency want to stop people falling into the river upstream, rather than just keep fishing them out at the bottom.

[Patrick Grady]

Absolutely. Where are those decisions ultimately made? Here, in rooms like this one. We are engaging with charitable organisations on this Bill. We are being advised and lobbied on matters in the Bill by organisations that are making representations to us, have frontline experience, and are delivering in a whole range of sectors. We have heard from domestic organisations and from Bond, the international development network.

I am sure all Committee members have diligently read the written evidence submitted by Bond, EB14. I strongly encourage them to do so, because it explains the challenges and difficulties faced by these organisations, which are having to comply with election registration regulations and reporting requirements, and finding it incredibly difficult. There is evidence in that document—we heard it from the hon. Member for Putney as well—that many organisations are already choosing simply to step back, so their voices are not being heard. That goes back to the narrative of what exactly the Bill is trying to achieve, in terms of suppressing debate and political participation in this country.

Although clause 24 is not quite as draconian as clause 23, it is still pretty oppressive. Amendment 96, tabled by the SNP, could achieve much the same as the Labour party amendments in exempting registered charities from these incredibly stringent new reporting requirements. The threshold of £10,000 could easily be reached once everything that had to be calculated was taken into account, such as staff time, resources, and collaboration with other organisations.

It would be easy to hit that threshold, potentially unexpectedly. The charity would then face another burden if it was sanctioned. There have been examples, referred to in the written evidence, of charities that inadvertently crossed the threshold and did not report that appropriately, and then faced fines. That is fair enough, if that is the regime, but it is another cost. That is money that people have given to those charities. It might be taxpayers’ money, received through gift aid, that has to be spent on fines, compliance and regulation, deterring the charity from political participation and delivery of frontline services, when it already exists in a rightly strong and tightly regulated environment.

The Government should accept the amendments. If they genuinely believe in levelling up, surely they want to hear from organisations that have frontline experience of the difficulties and challenges being faced by ordinary people day to day, and that are identifying solutions that will help to raise standards in society and level up. In fact, we are seeing a levelling down, suppression of debate, sticking with the status quo, and a message not to challenge anything coming from the Government who happen to be in power now.

We have learned in this Committee and in others that the chances of an amendment succeeding are middling to none. Nevertheless, I look forward to the Minister’s response to my points.

--- Later in debate ---

[Kemi Badenoch]

Yes, but the fact is they are not very common. Every single one of us in this room is in the same situation. I was elected in 2017. I did not know that a snap election was going to be called. I am afraid that what Opposition Members are asking for is the Fixed-term Parliaments Act 2011, which is not within the scope of what we are discussing. Debates on the clause are not the place to discuss certainty around election time, if that is what Opposition Members want. The clause is about regulating political finance transparency.

The fundamental point made by Opposition Members is that clause 24 creates an undue administrative burden for charities and community interest companies, but it does not do that. They can easily supply the relevant information.

[Cat Smith]

Can the Minister answer a very simple question? Will there be a UK general election by 26 October 2022? That is 12 months from today.

[Kemi Badenoch]

The hon. Lady knows that I cannot answer any questions about when elections are forthcoming. That does not change the premise of our argument. I do not know; she does not know; charities do not know; no third party campaigners know. The law is equal for everybody. I am afraid we simply do not accept the argument that there should be special rules and exemptions for particular groups.

Charities can supply the relevant information, and the amendment would increase the administrative burden for the Electoral Commission—a point it has made several times—and not allow it to obtain all the necessary information covered in the notification requirements. Under the amendment, charities and community interest companies would not have to provide the name of a responsible person. That information cannot be obtained through Companies House or the Charity Commission because it is specific to electoral law.

It is important to identify a person who will be responsible for ensuring compliance with electoral law. Naming a responsible person also acts to protect third parties from being liable for expenditure that has not been authorised by that person. Allowing charities and community interest companies to be exempt from that requirement would risk their duty of compliance and protection falling away, which would not be right. In the light of the reasons I have given, and the minimal burden on charities that the measures will generate, we oppose the amendment.

--- Later in debate ---

[Kemi Badenoch]

That is not what we are legislating on; that is a statement of fact. Just as with every intervention the hon. Gentleman has made, it is a point we all acknowledge that while elections are at expected times, they can happen at different times: earlier or there may be snap elections, though rare. That does not change the fundamental point under discussion.

Opposition Members seem to be annoyed that there is a regulated spending period at all. I am afraid that that is not going to change. Campaigning and political activity, which can occur up to 12 months or more in advance of an election, may have a significant influence on its outcome. Having a short regulated period, as proposed by the amendment, would mean that spending, which does influence the electorate, is likely to fall away from being regulated and reported. That fatally undermines the principle of transparency and spending limits.

[Cat Smith]

On the point about transparency, does the Minister not recognise that the Government are not being transparent with charities or third party campaigners? How are they ever meant to know when the regulated spend period is kicking in when we do not have scheduled, regular general elections for the UK Parliament because of legislation we already passed a couple of months ago? Does the Minister agree that we are asking charities, which are blindfolded, to make decisions with no idea when an election will take place? The amendment is the only way we can treat all third party campaigners fairly and give them any sense of transparency. Can the Minister see that the Government are a little inconsistent on the point about transparency?

[Kemi Badenoch]

I do not think so at all. In the previous clause, we made the situation equal for everybody. The Opposition are talking as if there is a secret conspiracy where everybody knows, other than them, when an election is going to be called. We are applying the law equally to everybody. That is right and I am happy to continue making the argument.

--- Later in debate ---

[Kemi Badenoch]

I have already given way multiple times and we need to proceed. There are other more important reasons why the amendment simply cannot pass.

Under the terms of the amendment, third party campaigners would be able to incur spending beyond their current limit, prior to the poll being officially set, and still be able to influence the electorate. That would give a potential advantage to those with access to greater funds, and thus also undermine the fundamental democratic principle that there should be a level playing field for all those taking part in elections. That would apply to all third party campaigners, whether on the Government’s side or the Opposition’s. That is the fairness about which the hon. Lady is talking. In addition, donations of third party campaigners are regulated only where they are used for controlled expenditure during a regulated period. That ensures that donations that are spent to influence the electorate in the period before an election come from permissible sources and are fully transparent. This is a regulated period amendment and we are not talking about charities.

A shorter regulated period would allow third party campaigners to accept and spend donations from potentially impermissible sources in the run-up to an election, and do so without being subject to transparency controls, as long as those donations were spent before the regulated period began. That risks unchecked money being used to influence the outcome of an election.

[Cat Smith]

Can the Minister confirm for the benefit of the charities that are watching our proceedings that we are not currently in a regulated spend period?

[Kemi Badenoch]

I have answered that question already.

The amendment, as drafted, does not achieve the aims set out in the accompanying explanatory memorandum. Although the memorandum suggests that the amendment would limit

“regulated periods for UK Parliamentary General Elections to the period between the announcement of the election and the close of polls”,

that is not correct. It makes changes to section 85 of the Political Parties, Elections and Referendums Act 2000, which provides a definition for what constitutes controlled expenditure, namely spending incurred by third party campaigners at relevant elections, not just UK parliamentary elections, which can be regulated. The amendment does not amend the length of the regulated period, but rather creates an additional time period over which controlled expenditure is regulated. That would cause confusion to third parties as to which time applies.

The amendment would also create disparity between the rules for third party campaigners and the controls on political parties, which would still have a twelve-month regulated period, known as the relevant period. The proposed change would therefore also have the effect of making regulated periods for UK parliamentary elections significantly shorter than those for the devolved Parliaments, whose regulated periods would remain at four months. The amendment therefore should not stand because it would undermine the principles of controls and transparency that are placed on election funding and spending, and it would create confusion and disparity.

Question put, That the amendment be made.

--- Later in debate ---

[The Chair]

I have agreed that the hon. Member for Lancaster and Fleetwood can make her remarks while seated.

[Cat Smith]

Thank you, Mr Pritchard. I welcome not just clause 26, but the whole of part 5 of the legislation. As shadow democracy Minister, I have had the unfortunate pleasure of having to take part in many debates about intimidation of candidates; I am sure all Members will be aware of some of the accounts.

We know that many of our colleagues are intimidated, and many candidates of our party have experienced intimidation and threats. It is devastating that we should be debating this clause so soon after the murder of our colleague, Sir David Amess, who was on the Panel of Chairs and chaired many debates on issues like this. I must be honest: I did not expect when I stood for election in 2015 that I would lose two colleagues to murder in such a short space of time. An attack on an MP, and an attack on a candidate, is an attack on democracy. The Opposition therefore welcome part 5 of the Bill.

I am making remarks about clauses 26 to 34 so that I do not have to bother for future clauses. My only concern is that some of the legislation does not go far enough. Many of the people who might go on to intimidate candidates, agents or campaigners might not be put off by the idea of not being able to stand for elected office for five years, because many of the people who commit these crimes are not interested in participating in our democratic processes—they are, in fact, opposed to the democratic process in its entirety.

As the Minister finds her feet in this new role, I would be very happy to open a dialogue with her to explore ways in which there might be a consensus across the House to ensure that our democracy, which we all take part in and support, can be strengthened so that we do not see the acts of violence and intimidation that we have seen in recent years deter good people from entering public life.

Question put and agreed to.

Clause 26 accordingly ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Schedule 8 agreed to.

Clause 27

Vacation of office etc

Question proposed, That the clause stand part of the Bill.

[Kemi Badenoch]

While those in public life are often the targets of intimidation and abuse, I regret to say that they can also be the perpetrators of intimidation and abuse. For example, it is possible that an MP or a local authority mayor or councillor will be sanctioned by the new intimidation disqualification order. They will be treated no differently from anybody else and will be disqualified from holding elected office.

The clause sets out the process by which the office holder’s office is vacated; this is no more than three months after the officeholder receives the intimidation disqualification order. During the period prior to the office being vacated, the officeholder is suspended from performing the functions of their office. However, if the officeholder makes a successful appeal against their conviction or sentence before that three-month period ends, the office is not vacated and consequently they can resume their office.

The process strikes the correct balance between, on the one hand, the right of an offender to appeal and, on the other, the smooth vacation of office and a swift resolution. A swift resolution provides certainty for electors and ensures that there is an office holder in place who can discharge the responsibilities of that office. This is also consistent with the existing process for vacating office outlined in the Representation of the People Act 1983.

Question put and agreed to.

Clause 27 accordingly ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clause 28

Candidates etc