Oral Answers to Questions

Caroline Spelman Excerpts

Thursday 3rd February 2011 Commons Chamber

[Dr Julian Huppert (Cambridge) (LD)]

7. What plans she has to ensure that access to forests is maintained or improved.

[The Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Mrs Caroline Spelman)]

The public forest estate consultation explores a range of models for the ownership and management of the estate and how important public benefits such as access can be maintained. An example would be how lease conditions could be used to ensure that access and other public benefits are protected.

[Dr Huppert]

In addition to established legal rights of way and Countryside and Rights of Way Act 2000 access rights, will the Secretary of State ensure that there are robust additional protections for access rights that are currently permitted access only, and will she safeguard existing access for bikes and horses?

[Mrs Spelman]

We had a lengthy debate last night in which I made it clear, at length, that permissive access rights are very limited in number and are on land that the public forest estate does not own.

[Barry Gardiner (Brent North) (Lab)]

Will the Secretary of State tell the House the projected figures for the next 10 years for the revenue that will come from the public forest estate? Will that revenue be offset by the benefit to the Exchequer from the sale of such land?

[Mrs Spelman]

Different types of forest are subject to different proposals in our consultation document, which is a genuine consultation. The planned sales—a continuation of the previous Government’s programme—are expected to raise £100 million over the spending review period. That will be part of DEFRA’s overall provision within that period.

[Neil Parish (Tiverton and Honiton) (Con)]

I welcome the Secretary of State’s genuine consultation over the next 11 weeks—12 weeks in all. When will she make a statement to the House after the consultation has finished?

[Mrs Spelman]

First, we need to make it absolutely clear that this is a genuine consultation, unlike a lot of the consultations that I experienced under the previous Government. We want as many people to take part as possible. There is a statutory three-month period; Ministers will reflect on relevant considerations and bring to the House our considered view in a timely fashion.

[Mary Creagh (Wakefield) (Lab)]

Public access is absolutely vital to local communities. The Secretary of State talks about her consultation period, but before that period is over, the Government will start selling off 10,000 hectares of public forest land. That is more than was sold in Labour’s entire period in office. I should like to know what right communities will have to bid for that land. How long will they have to raise the money? Will it be sold as leasehold, and is it correct that the selection for this year deliberately avoids woodlands that give public benefits because the Government want to maximise the capital raised from assets?

[Mrs Spelman]

The criteria for the planned sales are set out in the public domain on the Forestry Commission website. They are a continuation of a programme of sales that have taken place over the past three decades. As the hon. Lady knows, her party’s Government sold off 25,000 acres—[Interruption]—without the protection that this Government will provide.

[Mary Creagh]

Hon. Members cry “Shame,” but we sold that off to reinvest the money in the forest; this money is to be reinvested in flood defence schemes. The land will be sold with no higher rights of public access. Government Members should think very carefully about what is happening. Is it not the case that, on the public forest, the Secretary of State does not know what she is doing, does not know why she is doing it, and nobody wants her to do it? Is it not time to stop and think again?

[Mrs Spelman]

I think the hon. Lady was not listening clearly last night. Ministers have repeatedly given assurances in this House that access and other public benefits will be protected. However, many of the pieces of land that fit the criteria the Forestry Commission has set out do not have access attached to them at present. She should reflect carefully on our public consultation document and gain a better understanding of what happened when Rigg wood was sold off under the conditions set by her party’s Government in their contract: without protection, access is now denied.

[Mr Adrian Sanders (Torbay) (LD)]

8. What steps she is taking to reduce the volume of international trade in ivory.

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[Annette Brooke (Mid Dorset and North Poole) (LD)]

9. What steps she is taking towards reform of the common agricultural policy.

[The Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Mrs Caroline Spelman)]

The Government have recently responded to the European Commission’s communication, “The CAP towards 2020”. Our response calls for ambitious reform of the CAP that will enable farmers to meet the challenges and opportunities of the future.

[Annette Brooke]

I thank the Secretary of State for her answer. The second pillar of the CAP provides essential support to farmers to deliver environmental public goods. Which of the European Commission’s proposed options for reform does she think best balances the need to maintain landscape and diversity with food production and the protection of consumers and taxpayers?

[Mrs Spelman]

The whole of the Commission’s proposed reform of the CAP should address the twin challenges that the hon. Lady describes. Obviously, it is the combination of direct payments and the payments under pillar two—in particular, in this country, the way we use agri-environment stewardship schemes—that balances best the environmental benefits with food production. That is why the coalition Government are committed to increasing by 80% higher level stewardship.

[Jonathan Edwards (Carmarthen East and Dinefwr) (PC)]

The Secretary of State will be aware of the unease among farmers in Wales and the Welsh Government about the UK Government’s current position on CAP reform. Will she inform the House what progress she is making in developing a joint negotiating position?

[Mrs Spelman]

My right hon. Friend the Minister of State and I took the opportunity to invite the Welsh Minister for Agriculture to meet the Commissioner with us as early as June last year. We have had successive meetings with all the devolved Administrations and will continue to do so, as the reform process is likely to take a great deal of time. I find that we have much in common with the Welsh Assembly’s position and believe that there is much that we can do as we negotiate the reform to ensure that we get a good deal for farmers in Wales.

[Geoffrey Clifton-Brown (The Cotswolds) (Con)]

I ought to declare an interest as one of the few practising farmers in this country. [Interruption.] In this Parliament.

Will the Secretary of State, when considering the reform of the CAP, consider that Europe will have an important place in enabling agriculture to feed the world? Will she move away from the CAP’s structural faults, such as the growing of tobacco that is of such poor quality that no one wants to use it, and ensure that those practices are stopped?

[Mrs Spelman]

It is of the utmost importance that farmers in Europe are encouraged to produce more food and to do so sustainably. When we look at the threat to our society globally in relation to food security, it is clear that the nations that have the capacity to increase production sustainably are the ones that we should be fully behind.

[Mr Denis MacShane (Rotherham) (Lab)]

I mean the Secretary of State no harm, but as the second closet European in the Cabinet, does she agree that if we are to reform the CAP it is no use agreeing only across this Chamber? We have to convince our Irish, Spanish, French and Italian friends. The isolation of her party from the main centre-right conservative parties in Europe does not help.

[Mrs Spelman]

I have some good news for the right hon. Gentleman: the coalition agreement states clearly that we desire to be a “positive participant” in Europe. My colleagues and I have set about building alliances in order to secure the reforms that will benefit taxpayers, farmers, consumers and the environment. I am pleased to report that he will find that the position of our traditional friends—the Scandinavian countries and the Netherlands—and that of the German, English and Welsh farming unions is very close. That is the kind of alliance that brings about changes.

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[Mr Dave Watts (St Helens North) (Lab)]

12. What recent representations she has received on the sale of land managed by the Forestry Commission in England.

[The Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Mrs Caroline Spelman)]

Since the beginning of October, we have received 4,200 representations on the sale of the public forest estate, but most of those were in response to press coverage, not to the real consultation document, which was published on 27 January.

[Mr Watts]

Should it not be clear even to this Government that selling off our forests is a bad idea that has no public support? Will the Minister abandon the policy before she is forced to do so because of public pressure?

[Mrs Spelman]

The hon. Gentleman was perhaps not in the House last night, so allow me just to remind him that, in the last few months before the general election, the party of which he is a member published when in government an operational efficiency programme setting out the case for long-term leases of the public forest estate and for getting

“greater commercial benefit from the public forest estate”.

[Harriett Baldwin (West Worcestershire) (Con)]

I have had more representations on this issue than on any other since I was elected—probably about 500 so far. If I send them on to the consultation with a covering letter, can the Secretary of State reassure my constituents that they will all be counted as individual submissions?

[Mrs Spelman]

I can give my hon. Friend that assurance. All hon. Members should actively encourage their constituents to read the genuine consultation document. There has been an awful lot of mythology in the press, and we would welcome responses to the genuine consultation.

[Caroline Lucas (Brighton, Pavilion) (Green)]

Given that 60% of private English forests outside the public forest estate are under-managed, and that only 16% of them meet Forestry Stewardship Council standards, compared with 100% of Forestry Commission woodland, are not the public absolutely right to oppose this sell-off, which puts high levels of access and biodiversity at risk?

[Mrs Spelman]

I do not accept that it puts biodiversity at risk. That is something that I am particularly committed to enhancing and improving, as is set out in the proposals. The hon. Lady’s point will remind everybody that the public forest estate covers only 18% of woodland. Under the reforms that we propose, the Forestry Commission would continue in a regulatory role, and I would expect it to help us to achieve even higher standards of maintenance in both the public and the private forest.

[Andrew George (St Ives) (LD)]

Bearing in mind the Secretary of State’s concerns about public perception of the consultation proposals, does she agree that now may be the time to provide greater clarity about the conditions governing how the 40,000 hectares announced in the comprehensive spending review will be disposed of?

[Mrs Spelman]

I am happy to provide clarity. The criteria for the continuing sales of land as part of the CSR planned release are published and in the public domain on the Forestry Commission website. They look principally for sites that are less accessible and have a large requirement for expenditure. The criteria are set out in the public domain, and I am sure that the hon. Gentleman can help to point people to the right place.

[Sir Peter Soulsby (Leicester South) (Lab)]

I have read the consultation paper. I have also read the impact assessment, which shows that the selling of our forests and dismantling of the Forestry Commission has nothing to do with the costs or the benefits. We know that the Government are not listening to the big society or the community, because community groups are desperately worried about having to take on responsibility for their woods and forests. I note that today, as yesterday, the Secretary of State has not even mentioned her phoney argument about regulation, because it is so weak. At the heart of this, one question remains: just why is the Secretary of State determined to sell off our precious woods and forests?

[Mrs Spelman]

That was part of last night’s debate. It is clear that the Opposition do not want community groups and charities to be able to take ownership and management. That is clearly a divide between our parties. This is not primarily about cost and benefit. The point about regulation still stands. The Forestry Commission is both the regulator and the largest seller of timber in the market that it regulates. In this day and age, that kind of conflict of interest cannot continue.

[Mr John Baron (Basildon and Billericay) (Con)]

13. What progress has been made in resolving the single payment scheme difficulties experienced by Mr Peter Philpot.

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[Mr Christopher Chope (Christchurch) (Con)]

T1. If she will make a statement on her departmental responsibilities.

[The Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Mrs Caroline Spelman)]

My Department takes responsibility for safeguarding the environment, supporting farmers and strengthening the green economy. In that context, I am sure that Members of all parties will join me in welcoming the publication of Foresight’s latest report, “Global Food and Farming Futures”. That excellent body of work, co-funded by my Department, is a searching and rigorous assessment of the global food challenges between now and 2050, and I urge all Members to read it.

[Mr Chope]

Why can my right hon. Friend not give an unequivocal guarantee that in any sale of Forestry Commission land, existing public rights of access will be maintained exactly as they are at the moment, whether on or foot, by bicycle or on horseback? The failure of her colleague in the other place to give an unequivocal answer to that question yesterday has increased, not allayed, public suspicion on that subject.

[Mrs Spelman]

The Minister of State, my right hon. Friend the Member for South East Cambridgeshire (Mr Paice), gave precisely that undertaking in the debate last night, and I believe that he has reiterated it today.

[Mary Creagh (Wakefield) (Lab)]

The Campaign for Better Transport today launched a “Save Our Buses” campaign. Its research shows that Cambridgeshire county council is proposing to phase out all council bus services, and that Northamptonshire county council plans to cancel all existing rural services. Can the Minister tell the House what advice he has given the Department for Transport, or what advice has been sought, about the impact of those bus cuts on rural communities and economies?

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[Andrew Bridgen (North West Leicestershire) (Con)]

T2. Does the Secretary of State agree that the new National forest, which covers much of my constituency, is a model of what can be achieved by the private sector and the third sector in delivering excellent access to, and enjoyment of, the amenities of our woodlands?

[Mrs Spelman]

I certainly do. I met representatives of the National Forest Company this week. It is a wonderful model of what can be achieved. It involves schools and volunteers and has achieved a lot of regeneration on former industrial sites.

[Barry Gardiner (Brent North) (Lab)]

T3. Does the Minister agree with the Country Landowners Association that pillar one of the common agricultural policy should increasingly deliver public and environmental goods, or does he agree with the National Farmers Union, which thinks that that would increase costs for farmers, and therefore opposes the idea?

[Graham Evans (Weaver Vale) (Con)]

T4. My constituency is extremely fortunate to have Delamere forest, the largest woodland in Cheshire. Can the Secretary of State assure me, and my constituents, that this Government will always protect public access rights to Delamere forest?

[Mrs Spelman]

Yes, absolutely.

[Mr Barry Sheerman (Huddersfield) (Lab/Co-op)]

I would be very disappointed, and so would my constituents, if the forests and woodland question was diverted into a question of access. It is a question not of access, but of ownership. Deep in the DNA of English people is that for years and years they have been fed up because they have been told, “You can come, by our grace and favour, and walk on our land, but you can’t own it.”

[Mrs Spelman]

It is a question of both ownership and access. As I explained to the House yesterday, when the hon. Gentleman’s party was in government, it also looked at both ownership and access.

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[Mr Dennis Skinner (Bolsover) (Lab)]

We hear today that farmers and many others are not able to get hold of grants from the banks to further their causes. In the light of that, will the Secretary of State tell the banks that under no circumstances will they be able to buy forests?

[Mrs Spelman]

We have made it perfectly clear that the Forestry Commission has a duty and a responsibility, with any of the planned sales of the public forest estate, to satisfy itself that those who wish to buy are qualified to do so and have the necessary expertise to safeguard the high standards of protection of the environment and its biodiversity, public access and other public benefits.

[Angie Bray (Ealing Central and Acton) (Con)]

T7. In my constituency we are delighted that our work against dangerous dogs and their owners has been recognised by DEFRA, and that the borough of Ealing has been selected to pilot the dog ASBOs—or “dogbos”. Can the Minister give us further details on how those are intended to work?

[Mark Durkan (Foyle) (SDLP)]

The Secretary of State earlier used warm tones in promising future positive engagement with the devolved Administrations on the future of the CAP. Will that engagement be on the basis of DEFRA continuing to ignore the deeply held views of the devolved Administrations on the future of pillar one?

[Mrs Spelman]

We have been proactive in our engagement with all the devolved Administrations, and recognise the importance of direct payments to farmers. It is that assurance that the devolved Administrations are seeking, and I confirm that Ministers understand the challenges of farming in less favoured areas and will defend those interests.

[Simon Hart (Carmarthen West and South Pembrokeshire) (Con)]

T8. Can the Minister offer any help and support to the monks of Caldey island off the south Pembrokeshire coast in their attempts to introduce the red squirrel to their island?

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[Chi Onwurah (Newcastle upon Tyne Central) (Lab)]

Kielder forest, which will provide the bulk of the income under the Government’s plans to sell off our national heritage, is home to 31 sites of special scientific interest, as well as red squirrels and ospreys, yet the Government consultation classifies it simply as “commercial”. What guarantees can the Secretary of State give us that the public interest and conservation interests will be met in perpetuity, given that the forest is classified as commercial?

[Mrs Spelman]

We need to be perfectly clear that Kielder forest is predominantly commercial, but that it retains within it sites of special scientific interest and other recreational amenities that will be protected by the conditions set in the leases—in addition to the legislation that protects such things—if that is the outcome that arises from the proposals under consultation.

[George Freeman (Mid Norfolk) (Con)]

Following the very important recommendations laid out in last week’s Foresight report on the role of agricultural research in tackling climate change and promoting food security, what representations can the Secretary of State make to our European colleagues to ensure that we have a regime in Europe that encourages agricultural innovation?

[Mrs Spelman]

We regularly raise these issues with a number of European Commissioners, not just with the Directorate-General for Agriculture and Rural Development. I have often commended the work of the report to European Agricultural Commissioners for the warning that it gives to the food, farming and research community of the twin challenges of environmental change and food security that mean that we have to use all our endeavours to build the capacity in European agriculture to produce more food sustainably for a hungry world.