Oral Answers to Questions

Bill Esterson Excerpts

Wednesday 19th December 2012 Commons Chamber

[Miss Smith]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right to point to the need for organisations to make complaints about poor procurement practice. That is why we have provided a right to challenge such practice through the mystery shopper service and I confirm that today we are publishing the next batch of its results, which I think my hon. Friend will find very interesting indeed, and we shall continue doing so.

[Bill Esterson (Sefton Central) (Lab)]

The Federation of Small Businesses told me yesterday that most of its members had given up trying to do business with Departments. According to the Government’s figures, public sector procurement from small businesses has fallen in most Departments since the election. Why has that happened?

[Miss Smith]

I am afraid the hon. Gentleman is rather mixed up. As I mentioned in my answer, spend with SMEs is rising and we are on track for that 25% target. I am also conscious that the chairman of the FSB said this year that

“central government has raised its game…But more must be done”.

The question is: why did the previous Government do so little?

European Council

Bill Esterson Excerpts

Monday 26th November 2012 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

I thank my hon. Friend for his remarks. He makes a good point. Given what we have done in the UK, such as abolishing or merging about 200 quangos and cutting central Government Departments’ own spending by about 30% in some cases, there is clearly room in the EU—not just in the Commission but in the other institutions—to find proper savings in cost and bureaucracy. We should continue pushing at that. The seven-year multi-annual financial framework provides the one moment when we really have the opportunity to drive home the advantage and make those cuts.

[Bill Esterson (Sefton Central) (Lab)]

One more time, then: does the Prime Minister agree with those in his party who want a referendum, or does he agree with those in his party who do not want a referendum?

[The Prime Minister]

I think I have already made the position clear.

Oral Answers to Questions

Bill Esterson Excerpts

Tuesday 20th November 2012 Commons Chamber

[The Attorney-General]

I entirely acknowledge her key role in this matter and am particularly troubled to hear of her ill health. As I have said, I will do everything I can to take this process forward as quickly as possible, but I have to consult properly. There are a number of things that I simply cannot short-cut. I am endeavouring to do it as fast as possible and, as I said a moment ago, I hope that I can stick to the timetable that I have identified.

[Bill Esterson (Sefton Central) (Lab)]

I know that the families will welcome what the Attorney-General has said about making an application in December and I thank him for that. Anne Williams is seriously ill and all she wants is official recognition of why her son died. I know that the Attorney-General understands that, but could I urge him to do all he can to grant her wish before it is too late?

[The Attorney-General]

I fully understand the hon. Gentleman’s point, but he must also appreciate that my application is to quash the existing inquest verdict and, if that happens, for the court to order a fresh inquest or inquests. Once I have carried out my task of presenting the case to the court, my function will be at an end and I obviously cannot predict the time it would then take for the fresh inquests to take place. I have no doubt that, if the original inquest verdicts are quashed, it would be greatly in the public interest for the matter to move forward as quickly as possible, although, as I have told the House before, some criminal investigations might affect the time scale.

Hillsborough

Bill Esterson Excerpts

Wednesday 12th September 2012 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

I certainly join the hon. Gentleman in praising Ken Sutton and the team who helped to put the report together. They have done an outstanding job in my view, and I think the way the report was released to the families first was absolutely right.

The hon. Gentleman mentioned that he was leader of Sheffield city council at the time, and it is greatly to his credit that, like others, he revealed all his papers, public and private, to the report. This is not a public inquiry or a coroner’s report. The inquiry is a proper trawl though all the relevant documentation in order to draw conclusions. There may be lessons that we can learn for other cases. Because everything is revealed, a report of this nature could be the right way to get to the truth, rather than a public inquiry.

[Bill Esterson (Sefton Central) (Lab)]

One of those who died was 18-year-old Christopher Devonside. Christopher’s father, Barry, will welcome what the Prime Minister had to say about a potential new inquest, because that is something he and his family have called for, along with many others.

I add my voice to those who have already mentioned accountability and potential criminal proceedings. As a result of what we have heard today, and what is no doubt detailed in the report, Barry and many other families will think such proceedings entirely appropriate.

[The Prime Minister]

The hon. Gentleman is right to raise the issue of accountability, and there are processes through which that is meant to happen. In this case, the chief constable of South Yorkshire offered his resignation right at the beginning, but it was not accepted by the South Yorkshire police authority. We must think through how we can hold public authorities to account and the processes by which that happens. Even 23 years on, it is completely open for the authorities to look at the new evidence and to draw the conclusions they choose.

Regional Pay

Bill Esterson Excerpts

Wednesday 20th June 2012 Commons Chamber

[Mr Maude]

They may well have national negotiations. If the hon. Gentleman had listened, he would have heard me say that our proposals do not involve a change to national pay bargaining mechanisms. Actually, though, plenty of companies have preferential pay rates in different parts of the country, as might well make sense in some circumstances. But he clearly did not listen to what I said earlier.

Pay decisions in the civil service, below the senior civil service, are delegated to individual Departments, so it is for each Department to consider the case as it applies to its own work force.

[Bill Esterson (Sefton Central) (Lab)]

It has occurred to me that Conservative Members were against the national minimum wage when it was introduced. Will the Minister confirm beyond doubt that this is not the thin end of the wedge and that there will not be any attempt to undermine the national minimum wage through regional pay?

[Mr Maude]

We have made it clear that we support the national minimum wage. That has been the case for a long time.

--- Later in debate ---

[Bill Esterson (Sefton Central) (Lab)]

Most business people I know want to pay well because they know that if they look after their staff, their staff will do a good job and help their businesses to thrive. If we apply the same principle to the public sector, paying people well and treating them well are both critical factors in delivering good public services, but undercutting pay, making it easier to fire people, and cutting 40,000 public sector jobs in the north-west are all decisions that sap morale and make people more fearful, making it less likely that services will be delivered well. It is also less likely that people will spend money when they are fearful, and that will harm the private sector businesses whose customers work in the public sector.

Many of my constituents work in the public sector and would like to know why regional pay is being proposed. For staff and their families in the north-west of England, regional pay would most likely mean that they would be paid less than colleagues elsewhere. There would be several consequences of such a change, and I shall explore some of the concerns about a move to local and regional pay.

The likelihood is that we would see regional inequalities made worse. Where unemployment is already high and where the recession has hit communities hardest, the introduction of regional pay would make matters worse. Lower pay in the poorest areas is what regional pay means, and the consequences are that the best performing staff would be able to earn more elsewhere. That means that it would be harder to recruit and to retain staff where they are most needed, unless the Minister wants to tell us that regional pay means higher pay in poorer areas. I do not think that is what we heard earlier.

Lower pay means less money going into the economy, again where it is most needed. Less money from lower pay means less money being spent in local businesses already struggling under the pressure of being in deprived areas suffering from a Downing street-made recession.

[Ian Swales (Redcar) (LD)]

Labour-led Redcar and Cleveland was one of the councils that failed to implement the April 2011 pay rise for low-paid workers, meaning that their workers are now paid less than those in other localities. Did the hon. Gentleman’s council implement the pay rise? What does he think about councils that did not?

[Bill Esterson]

The hon. Gentleman represents a Government who have cut the funds to councils in the north of England more than ever in history. Those cuts were front-loaded and we still have not seen the end of them, so he is not in any position to tell people on the Opposition Benches about the way that councils operate.

My hon. Friend the Member for Sedgefield (Phil Wilson) made the point that public sector jobs help to create private sector jobs. Indeed, there is research suggesting that every pound spent on public sector pay generates up to £1.50 elsewhere in the economy. When we consider the implications of regional pay, I start to see it as yet another way for the Government to make matters worse, not better, in the areas that need the most help. It will encourage staff, when choosing where to work, to go to the better-off areas and spend their money in places that have fared rather better in the recession.

I am sure Ministers take an evidence-based approach to their policies, so where is the evidence that a more fragmented system would be more efficient? A national negotiating system means a structured set of negotiations and a co-ordinated approach across regions. What, I wonder, is the analysis by Treasury Ministers of the cost of multiple pay review bodies at a local level? I wonder whether Ministers had made those calculations before they made their commitment in the autumn statement. It seems to me that we would see a complex and bureaucratic process for setting local pay that would take time and resources away from delivering vital public services.

If regional pay is introduced, it will mean lower pay in the north-west. In answer to the hon. Member for Redcar (Ian Swales), 40,000 jobs have already gone in the north-west as a result of cuts in the public sector. The north-west has seen twice the national average in cuts in jobs in the public sector, and any measure that cuts pay in the north-west will depress the economy and hit the living standards not just of the staff who lose pay but of the businesses that rely on them and of the people who work in those businesses too.

Lower pay for poorer regions will make it harder to attract the best staff and to keep them. It will mean less money for the staff and their families in already poor areas, and it will take more money out of the hardest hit local economies. As we have seen, the increased bureaucracy will mean higher costs.

The Government point to a gap between public and private sector pay, but the reality is that cutting public sector pay will make it easier for private sector employers, too, to cut pay in order to maintain the differential. In fact, the removal of money from the economy would put pressure on some private employers to do just that because of the depressing effect it would have on the economy. The Government say they want to rebalance the economy. If pay is cut in the poorest parts of the country for lower-paid and part-time public sector workers, many of whom have already lost their tax credits, the economy will be rebalanced all right, but not in a good way. It will be rebalanced so that it is further away from a fair and equal distribution than ever.

The Government should have nothing to do with regional pay. They should continue to work with the staff who do a good job serving our communities up and down the country. They should support those staff to ensure that they can continue to deliver excellent services, not undermine them by sapping their morale with such crazy suggestions.

--- Later in debate ---

[Miss Smith]

If I tried to answer that question, I suspect that I would soon end up outside the scope of the debate. It is particularly important to note that we need to consider the evidence, which the Chancellor has asked for by asking the pay review bodies to consider the question. That evidence would come into the answer to the hon. Gentleman’s question.

[Bill Esterson]

rose—

[Miss Smith]

I will not give way. The hon. Gentleman should rest his foot, as I had to myself several months ago. I wish him well and a speedy recovery.

It is somewhat troubling that shadow Ministers have not been able to explain whether they think it is good for small businesses in their constituency that the public sector pays 7.5% more overall than the private sector. They have not been able to explain, as I have mentioned, why they favour regionalising benefits and not pay. Perhaps they will surprise us all and stand firm against attempts to appease the unions, wait for the pay review bodies’ reports and take a mature decision based on the evidence available. That is what this Government will do. We do not seek to cave in to those who have given around £15 million to the Labour party in recent times.

The introduction of local and market-facing pay could help poorer regions, which I know Members on both sides of the House would welcome. It could do that by providing more public sector jobs for the same level of investment and by helping the local private sector to become more competitive and to expand. Tonight’s debate should not be about regional pay, about ending national pay bargaining or about cutting anybody’s pay. The Government recognise that public sector pay is a complex issue that varies significantly between public sector work forces.

Party Funding

Bill Esterson Excerpts

Monday 26th March 2012 Commons Chamber

[Mr Maude]

One of the eccentricities of the system is that even if my hon. Friend had been ingenious enough to find out how to opt out, he would not have saved any money, because he would have paid exactly the same amount in any event.

[Bill Esterson (Sefton Central) (Lab)]

Access to the policy unit goes to the heart of this cash-for-access scandal. The Budget took from pensioners to give to millionaires, and this weekend’s revelations show that millionaires were paying to change Government policy for personal gain. So can the Minister tell us which millionaires paid for meetings with the Prime Minister and then benefited from last week’s Budget?

Informal European Council

Bill Esterson Excerpts

Tuesday 31st January 2012 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

We have a very strong view in this country that we should keep our own currency, but that does not let us off the need for fiscal discipline, proper monetary policy and keeping inflation under control. It is not a free lunch or a free ride. We have to take tough decisions, but clearly we have to show some respect for the 17 eurozone countries that want to make the euro work. It is no good wishing away what is there. The responsible thing to do is not to stand in their way when they are trying to put out the fire in their own house, but to ensure that they do so in a way that does not threaten our national interests. That is exactly what I have done.

[Bill Esterson (Sefton Central) (Lab)]

I still do not know whether the Prime Minister thinks that he did not sign a treaty or just an agreement. Is not his real failure his commitment to austerity and his lack of a plan for jobs and growth either in the EU or in the UK?

[The Prime Minister]

In Europe, we have a plan for jobs and growth, which is called completing the single market. The question that the hon. Gentleman and his leader have to answer is about the new treaty being proposed, which 25 countries are going to sign and Britain is not. [Interruption.] I do not care how bad the lasagne is, at some stage the shadow Chancellor and the Leader of the Opposition are going to have to make up their minds. Are they for it, are they against it, or are they weak and indecisive and cannot make up their minds?

Individual Voter Registration

Bill Esterson Excerpts

Monday 16th January 2012 Commons Chamber

[Mr Allen]

My hon. Friend makes her case eloquently, and she is a great champion of ensuring that members of the public in her constituency and elsewhere are on the register. We need to support that sentiment, and only we in the Chamber can do so.

We do that partly through the activities of the Political and Constitutional Reform Committee, which I am fortunate to chair. It is an active Committee, and some of its members are in the Chamber: my hon. Friend the Member for Edinburgh East (Sheila Gilmore) and the hon. Member for Burton (Andrew Griffiths). I pay tribute to the hon. Member for Epping Forest (Mrs Laing), who spoke on behalf of the Committee when I was absent due to ill health when this matter was last debated.

We have worked together, and we have worked with the Government, to try to make the proposal better. Given the exchanges that have taken place, the House is in severe danger of doing the job that members of the public elected it to do. The Government have submitted a pre-legislative proposal to the Select Committee, which is how things should happen. The Select Committee responded with non-partisan efforts to determine a better Bill and to make better proposals, some of which have already been heard by the Government. Today, we are having a measured debate. There may not be a great drama if we tend to agree on a number of the issues, but that is what the House should do when proposed legislation is introduced, so that we end up with better legislation.

[Bill Esterson (Sefton Central) (Lab)]

My hon. Friend is making a good speech and an important contribution to the debate. Will he comment on the concerns, particularly in urban areas, about the change to individual registration without safeguards? Those of us who represent such areas will have far more people to represent, often with far greater problems.

[Mr Allen]

My hon. Friend, as always, is well ahead of me, and I shall come on to those points.

Something that unites everyone in the House is the feeling that individual voter registration is right. We have heard concern from Members from all parts of the House that unless the measure is implemented effectively we could snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. I do not think that anyone wants that to happen. Listening to us in the House and making sure that this is done properly will ensure that the measure—what the Electoral Commission called the “biggest change” in the franchise since the introduction of universal suffrage—is implemented effectively so that everyone can benefit, rather than partially or going off at half-cock and getting it all wrong.

Our anxiety in the Select Committee fell into several parts. The blockbuster came when we heard from the Electoral Commission and the Association of Electoral Administrators about the fact that if we did not do this right, not only might 10,000 people on average in every constituency not appear on the register, as only 90% of people would register, but that that figure could drop by a third, making the situation even worse, perhaps going down to 60%. That was a shock to the Select Committee and to members of all parties represented on it. I know that that is not the Minister’s intention, and that he will keep listening to ensure that as many people as possible are on the register.

Our anxieties—I shall put them to the Minister again—covered a number of areas. First, I pay tribute to him and to his colleagues for listening to what we had to say on the opt-out: the tick box saying “Don’t bother me any more. I don’t want to be registered. Leave me alone.” The fact that the Government listened to those representations very early bodes well for future amendments.

Secondly, on the issue of registration and whether non-registration should be an offence, I ask the Government to think again. We heard what my hon. Friend the Member for Vale of Clwyd (Chris Ruane) said about the evidence from Rhyl. He made a compelling case that there may well be a better way to deal with the matter. Perhaps it is not by means of a £1,000 fine or by taking up half the space of the form with bold red capitals, but maybe it is. I ask the Government to take the matter away and think again. There are people who need a little encouragement, a little nudge to register, and across the House we should consider the best way to do that.

My third point concerns the full household canvass. I do not know whether the Minister said anything about that, but I hope he is keeping an open mind as the process develops. One of the particular concerns of the Committee were the areas that already have high rates of under-registration. We need to consider whether there is something we can do across the board or in those specific circumstances to ensure that something is done in areas that are brought to our attention as having a large unregistered population. I hope the Minister will look at that.

Another point that came up repeatedly was the funding of electoral registration officers. I will not get into the subject of local government expenditure and reductions, but we cannot put a price on democracy. If additional resources are needed or existing resources ought to be ring-fenced, we would all commend the Government for thinking further about that. I say no more than that. I do not offer a magic solution. I do not propose any more than was suggested in Committee, but I hope that electoral registration and returning officers locally are given the sort of support that will enable thousands and possibly hundreds of thousands of people to participate in our democracy, as is their right.

I guess colleagues have very much in mind yet another redistribution of parliamentary seats and boundary changes. If there is a catastrophic fall in the numbers of people on the registers, all of us, regardless of party, nation or region within the United Kingdom, will again face the merry-go-round of boundary redistribution. All I will say to the Minister is that if this debate is an exemplar of the way we can conduct our business in the House and reach as close to consensus as we can, perhaps the way in which previous Bills have been dealt with is an example of how not to do it. Let us not inadvertently have a rerun of the boundary changes under which we are all labouring now, with the accidental reduction of a register causing yet another boundary change. I hope that lesson can be learned, otherwise Members in the House will be representing numbers rather than places and people.

Finally, I commend the Government and my Front-Bench team for the way we have managed through the parliamentary process—of course there have been the ding-dongs, the public exchange of insults and so on—to make a better proposal than we started with. I hope very much that the Government, who have listened, will continue to listen and that we will have a piece of legislation that we can be proud of and that introduces individual voter registration in a way that we would all want.

Oral Answers to Questions

Bill Esterson Excerpts

Tuesday 20th December 2011 Commons Chamber

The Deputy Prime Minister was asked—

[Bill Esterson (Sefton Central) (Lab)]

1. What discussions he has had on the definition of lobbying.

[The Parliamentary Secretary, Cabinet Office (Mr Mark Harper)]

The hon. Gentleman will know that we plan to bring forward our proposals for consultation in the new year, and this will no doubt be one of the subjects on which we will seek and receive views.

[Bill Esterson]

Does the Minister agree that businesses in this country should be lobbying the Government to go back to the negotiating table in Europe to get what is best for British business, jobs and living standards?

[Mr Harper]

That was a very contrived question. Our proposals on lobbying are very sound. On the European question, I think that the general public agree with what my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister did. There is no conflict between standing up for Britain and ensuring that we are involved in every meeting in Europe and fighting for British interests. We saw the outcome of that in yesterday’s excellent statement on the Fisheries Council.

EU Council

Bill Esterson Excerpts

Monday 12th December 2011 Commons Chamber

[Mr Speaker]

I think that the sensible approach, in conformity with convention, is to stick to questions to and answers from the Prime Minister in this Chamber.

[Bill Esterson (Sefton Central) (Lab)]

In the words of one business leader today,

“Margaret Thatcher was a constant thorn in the side of European leaders, but she never vacated the negotiating table; I am anxious by the implications of what the prime minister has done.”

When will the Prime Minister give business in this country the reassurance that it needs about the impact that his walking away will have on jobs and the economy?

[The Prime Minister]

I think that business does understand that we must be in the European Union for trade, growth and jobs, and that our membership of the single market is key. However, there is a lot of damaging regulation coming from Brussels and we need to stand up to that. When new treaties are suggested that involve huge fiscal changes and other changes in the European Union, it is right that Britain should seek safeguards. I am not hearing the same message from business that the hon. Gentleman is hearing.