Holocaust Memorial Bill

Lord Wilson of Sedgefield Excerpts

Report stage
Wednesday 11th June 2025 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Deech (CB)]

My Lords, can I clarify some points that have arisen? I think many people are speaking as if there were no Holocaust memorials or learning centres in this country. We have at least half a dozen and 21 learning centres and they do not seem to have had much effect—there has never been an impact assessment. As for yet another one with an extremely narrow remit about rather recherché elements of the British reaction to or knowledge of the Holocaust in the 1930s and 1940s, if you did not know an awful lot before you went into it, you would not know much when you came out because it is not going to be able to tell you the whole story. It will be only about things such as Churchill and whether the camps should have been bombed and so on. Unless you were pretty knowledgeable at first, it would not teach you anything.

Indeed, the curator at his presentation the other day was unable to say what was going to be learned. He was unable to say whether it was going to combat antisemitism; in fact, I think he said it would not. Anita Lasker-Wallfisch, the great survivor who played the cello at Auschwitz, which saved her life, appeared before the Commons Select Committee in her wheelchair. She thumped the table and said it was rubbish. She asked what people were going to learn after 80 years—that we should not kill each other? Was that all we had to offer? In fact, the content as proposed is a sort of tribute to British greatness, British democracy, a kind of absolution: “We are not like that”. I will come back to that.

The other thing that should be clarified is about this tsunami of letters that noble Lords have received. Note that nearly all of them come from individuals. Even the president of the Board of Deputies has not been able to bring himself to put it to a vote because it would very likely be split. This comes from individuals who do not seem to know the British scene or how many other memorials we already have.

In fact, the reason the memorial has to be co-located is that this particular design is not exactly a memorial. What are you going to think if you see 23 sticks sticking up in the air? Of course, it has to have a learning centre somewhere; otherwise, people will just say, “What on earth is this?” and pass on by. Also, the model in the Royal Gallery that has been shown to your Lordships is misleading. It has little figures climbing on the mound but does not show the security buildings that will be necessary or the fences and all the other paraphernalia that are going to have to accompany it. It also seems to put the Buxton memorial in the wrong place; we will come to that.

What we are talking about tonight is largely a moral and historical issue. If ever there was an issue that merited a free vote, it is this one. Indeed, noble Lords know full well that if they have to be whipped to support this project, there is something gravely wrong with it. If it was a good project, there would be no problem at all. The other thing noble Lords have been told is that no Holocaust memorial is ever built without controversy. This is quite wrong, as is the other notion that has been put about that the project was in the Labour manifesto; it was not. The Imperial War Museum, the National Holocaust Centre in Newark, memorials in Swanage and Huddersfield and many others were all built without opposition. It is only when it is clearly in the wrong place, offering no education or commemoration, like in Hyde Park and this one, that there is opposition.

I suspect that many noble Lords have not visited the others nor learned from the 21 learning centres already existing because the debate always seems to assume that there was nothing until this project started and if it does not come about there will always be nothing. That is simply not the case. There are more than 300 memorials and museums around the world and as they go up, as they are built, so the antisemitism rises. The amendment to confine building in Victoria Tower Gardens to overground is perhaps the most sensible and achievable one of all. In a nutshell, this amendment says, if you are in a hole, stop digging.

If the Government want to get a memorial up quickly, without dissent, without limitless costs and all the other obstacles, the answer is to build a proper memorial—one that speaks to you, that says something to you—and put a learning centre close by. It is the building underground that is causing all the trouble. The POLIN Museum in Warsaw, which I have been to, has basements but basically it is a building that is overground, next to an evocative Warsaw Ghetto memorial. But building here means excavation to the depth of two storeys, with a consequent mound to dispose of the soil, which, incidentally, is not depicted in the model. There are flood and fire risks that we will come to.

The underground nature is not a virtue in itself, it came about only because the site was selected without proper research and is too small for what is needed. The noble Lord, Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton, knows, because he was Prime Minister at the time, that the space and nature recommendations that he accepted in his Holocaust Commission report of 2015 have been abandoned. Those who were involved in that, I suppose, cannot be happy with the way it has been cut down now. All they can do is put a brave face on it and try to justify it retrospectively.

The present underground plan is claustrophobic and dark. It is entered by a slope and no consideration seems to have been given to rain. We all know that when architects put up memorials they show you sun and trees and people strolling around. They never factor in rain and this one will have rain going down the slope. The idea was that there should be a place for contemplation, commemoration and prayer but it is too cramped. If you put a decent learning centre somewhere else, you would not need planning permission, you would not need this Bill. It would enable people who want to go to go without a ticket. It would not do the harm it is going to do.

As I have said, the designer’s track record is not a good one, and his current plan has not been able to proceed. You can see it online; it is just an empty site. Somebody mentioned HS2, and quite right too, because this plan has been rated by the National Infrastructure Commission thrice as undeliverable. It has been put in the same category as HS2, and not for planning reasons.

There is a compromise that we have been offering for years: a memorial quickly and a learning centre, with more spacious accommodation, in Westminster. That will achieve the basic 2015 recommendation for a campus, with offices for all of the Holocaust organisations and a lecture hall. What we have been presented with is a failure on every score. It will not be a worldwide attraction—why should it be?—and, in fact, it might not be an attraction at all.

It must be a matter of regret for the entire nation that those responsible for advancing this project have continued with a manifestly impossible plan on such a controversial and inappropriate site. It has given rise to intense opposition from local residents, and from all those who have ambitions in relation to education about Jewish history. As the late and much-lamented former Chief Rabbi Lord Sacks said, the Holocaust must be studied in context. That is why the POLIN Museum is so good. The actual size of the Holocaust element in it is irrelevant; it is in the context of more than 1,000 years of history of Jews in Poland. People know why they were there, what happened and what happened afterwards, which is important.

Instead of accepting the compromise that we have offered, the proposers insist on delivering a memorial that is essentially a tourist attraction, for selfies, with a visitor centre attached—a convenient stop for anyone in Westminster who wants a café and a toilet. It shows disregard for the very distinguished Jewish opponents of it. I would hardly include myself among those, but historians, professionals, writers, lawyers, some journalists and people in the creative community have come out and said that this is not good enough for our family, not good enough to teach people and not good enough for this country.

Most damaging of all is the interference with R&R and the repair of Victoria Tower, but I will come to that later. The plan to build underground will come back to haunt the parliamentary authorities if it is not abandoned.

There are many supporters who seem to be content with any memorial rather than a good memorial. It is understandable that the Government are anxious to shake off the allegations of antisemitism that were investigated by the Equality and Human Rights Commission. It is not antisemitic to oppose this project and to want to improve it. I did not want to have to raise that, but I have.

[Lord in Waiting/Government Whip (Lord Wilson of Sedgefield) (Lab)]

The noble Baroness has spoken for 10 minutes. I hope she can now bring her remarks to an end, considering this is Report and not Committee stage of the Bill, and a lot of these arguments were rehearsed then.

[Baroness Deech (CB)]

I will conclude by saying that this needs a complete rethink, and now is the chance for your Lordships to rescue the proposal.

Holocaust Memorial Bill

Lord Wilson of Sedgefield Excerpts

Report stage
Wednesday 11th June 2025 Lords Chamber

[Lord in Waiting/Government Whip (Lord Wilson of Sedgefield) (Lab)]

My Lords, as everybody knows, we are now on Report. These issues have been debated extensively in Committee, so we do not need any Second Reading speeches. I urge noble Lords to reflect that in their contributions to the debate. This is a self-regulating Chamber, and one of the characteristics of that is discipline. I think we need to show that now.

Amendment 3

Moved by

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With great respect to the noble Lord, Lord Evans of Rainow—

[Lord Wilson of Sedgefield (Lab)]

With great respect, I remind the noble Lord that, in deciding the fate of his amendment, it is not necessary to respond to all the points raised in the debate. It might be helpful to the House if he could proceed to a decision.

[Lord Carlile of Berriew (CB)]

With great respect to the noble Lord—and I do admire him—he is a relative newcomer to this place. I am not replying to all the points that were made by all Members; I am making a few comments about particular points.

I was about to say, and will continue to say, to the noble Lord, Lord Evans of Rainow, that I am afraid he was not listening to my speech when I first made it, because I was not opposed to what he thinks I was opposed to.

I am grateful for the numerous other speeches that were made. The questions asked by the noble Baroness, Lady Fookes, were not answered by the Minister. I am one of the quite large number here who remember her as the queen of nitty-gritty when she was Deputy Speaker of the House of Commons. We learned enough in that other place to reply to her questions when they were asked, or else—I see the noble Lord, Lord Alton, nodding in agreement.

I have suggested something practical and sensible, and I have had encouragement and support from Members of your Lordships’ House who I admire. I beg to test the opinion of the House.

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[Baroness Deech (CB)]

My Lords, it is a matter of regret that Committee took place in the Moses Room, where there was not much room for discussion or, indeed, attendance. Now we find that the Government are still trying to steamroller this through by whipping—which is quite wrong—and keeping us here late at night in the hope that people will get tired and go home. This needs more time.

Let me advert to some misconceptions in the speeches made. We have a National Holocaust Centre already—

[Lord Wilson of Sedgefield (Lab)]

Let me just say to the noble Baroness that, in deciding on the fate of the amendment, it is not necessary to respond to all the points raised in the debate. It might be helpful to the House if we proceed to a decision.

[Baroness Deech (CB)]

I have no intention of responding to all the points, but there were some things said that simply are not correct. Not all the survivors want a memorial, or one in this place. No one has studied the impact. There is all this talk about it having to be next to Parliament to make some signal about democracy, but there has been no study of the impact of location or visiting. No one has done a study to say, if you go and visit a Holocaust memorial museum, what you will feel like when you come out at the other end. The model that we have been given is somewhat misleading. It does not show the whole project.

As for the unfortunate little Victoria Tower Gardens, which is really a very nice place and an open space for Peabody building inhabitants and all those who live in flats, it is going to be real mess in the forthcoming years because it will be a repository for the scaffolding, the building equipment, concrete mixers, et cetera, associated with restoration and renewal. The prospect that anyone will be able to stroll around and enjoy it for the next 30 years or so is simply untrue.

As for the design, no due diligence was done at the outset, otherwise people would have realised that the design had already been presented in Ottawa. Since then, the same design has been used in Niger and in Barbados, so there is nothing in it about sensitivity or special affiliation to London, the park or the Jewish community.

Given the lateness of the hour, I can do nothing but withdraw the amendment, but the truth within it remains. I beg leave to withdraw the amendment.

Renters’ Rights Bill

Lord Wilson of Sedgefield Excerpts

Wednesday 14th May 2025 Lords Chamber

[Lord in Waiting/Government Whip (Lord Wilson of Sedgefield) (Lab)]

My Lords, it may not surprise your Lordships that before we start the debate on the first group, I remind the Committee again of the protocol around declaring interests. As I have mentioned, noble Lords should declare relevant interests at each stage of proceedings on a Bill. That means that in Committee, relevant interests should be declared during the first group on which a noble Lord speaks. If a noble Lord has already declared an interest in Committee, that is sufficient, but if this is their first contribution, any relevant interests should be declared.

Amendment 206A

Moved by

Renters’ Rights Bill

Lord Wilson of Sedgefield Excerpts

Monday 12th May 2025 Lords Chamber

[Lord in Waiting/Government Whip (Lord Wilson of Sedgefield) (Lab)]

My Lords, it may not surprise noble Lords that, before we start the debate on the first group, I again remind the Committee of the protocol around declaring interests. As I mentioned last week, noble Lords should declare relevant interests at each stage of proceedings on a Bill. That means that in Committee, relevant interests should be declared during the first group on which a noble Lord speaks. If a noble Lord declared an interest during the previous two days in Committee, that is sufficient, but if this is their first contribution, any relevant interests should be declared.

[Lord Shipley (LD)]

My Lords, I thank the noble Lord for what he has just said, reminding us of the importance of declaring interests in Committee if they have not been declared so far, but will he make a statement to the Committee about the Government’s plans for further consideration of this Bill, given that we were promised six days of consideration? We lost more than two hours last week through dinner-hour business, and today—for extremely good reasons—we have now lost more than five hours of consideration. I hope the Government have now decided that they must give this Committee an extra day, because we were promised six days and we have not had six days. I hope the Government’s intention is not simply to go through the night tonight and through the night on Wednesday. This would not mean reasonable discussion of the 132 amendments that still stand to be debated in your Lordships’ Committee.

[Lord Wilson of Sedgefield (Lab)]

I thank the noble Lord for those comments. We will try to resolve this through the usual channels, but there are six days and this is the fifth day. We want to make progress today and we want to complete Committee on the sixth day, which is Wednesday this week.

Clause 17: Landlords etc: financial penalties and offences

Amendment 145

Moved by

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[Baroness Williams of Trafford (Con)]

My Lords, before the Minister stands up to respond, I just make the point that it has gone midnight. We did not start consideration of Committee until 8.30 pm. That has meant that people have gone home without putting forward their amendments, and there has not been proper scrutiny on the last few groups. The Committee has done amazingly well to get as far as it has, but it has now gone midnight. I do not know if the Whip intends to resume the House.

[Lord Wilson of Sedgefield (Lab)]

I will resume the House at the appropriate time. This is not the first time where debates have gone beyond midnight: on day 1 of Report, the Great British Energy Bill went to 1 am. I do not intend to take this much further. I want to stop at Amendment 206, which is another two groups, and then that will be it. Hopefully, we will be finished very shortly.

[Baroness Williams of Trafford (Con)]

The reason we are on the penultimate group is because people have not been in the Chamber to move their amendments in Committee. There have been very short debates in Committee, and some very important groups in Committee have just been glossed over—that is my point.

[Lord Wilson of Sedgefield (Lab)]

As I said, I want to get to Amendment 206. There is only one amendment that has not been moved. There have been other debates that have gone on until 1 am. If we spent less time discussing this aspect, we could finish quite soon.

[Baroness Taylor of Stevenage (Lab)]

My Lords, the central aim of the Renters’ Rights Bill is to give tenants more security in their homes. Landlords must not be able to evict tenants without a ground for possession, as defined in Section 8 of the Housing Act 1988, which we are expanding and refining to ensure that landlords can gain possession where proportionate.

The noble Baroness, Lady Scott of Bybrook, supported by the noble Lord, Lord Jamieson, has stated that they do not support Clause 61 standing part of the Bill. This clause will repeal Part 3 of the Housing and Planning Act 2016, which, if brought into force, would have allowed landlords to take possession of premises they believed to be abandoned without a court order. However, Part 3 of the 2016 Act was never brought into force. It also wholly pertained to assured shorthold tenancies. Those tenancies will cease to exist in the private rented sector after the implementation of the Bill. The repeal of Part 3, therefore, is necessary to maintain a coherent statute book.

As I mentioned, Part 3 of the 2016 Act would have enabled landlords to reclaim possession of properties under an assured shorthold tenancy that had been abandoned without a court order, provided they had issued three warning notices without response and the tenant was in rent arrears. While we acknowledge that genuine abandonment can present challenges—I dealt with a case that had gone on for years and years in Stevenage—not only for landlords but also for the wider community, these provisions were not the appropriate solution. At the time, they were criticised as a rogue landlord’s charter, and it is appropriate that they were never implemented.

Where abandonment has occurred, landlords will need to establish a ground for possession. It is likely that, in abandonment scenarios, tenants will also be in rent arrears, making those grounds for possession applicable. Landlords may also rely on breaches of tenancy agreements, such as clauses prohibiting prolonged unoccupancy or on grounds relating to deterioration of the property. In clear-cut situations, implied surrender may also apply—for example, where tenants have returned the keys and the landlord has accepted them even if no formal notice was given.

It is vital that tenants have access to justice when facing the loss of their home. Landlords must not be enabled to take possession without a valid ground. Clause 61 ensures the removal of these redundant provisions from the statute book. I commend this clause to the Committee.

Renters’ Rights Bill

Lord Wilson of Sedgefield Excerpts

Tuesday 6th May 2025 Lords Chamber

[Lord in Waiting/Government Whip (Lord Wilson of Sedgefield) (Lab)]

My Lords, before we start the debate on the first group, I remind the Committee again of the protocol around declaring interests. As I mentioned last week, noble Lords should declare relevant interests at each stage of a Bill’s proceedings. That means that, in Committee, relevant interests should be declared during the first group in which a noble Lord speaks. If a noble Lord declared an interest during the previous two days in Committee then that is sufficient, but if they are making their first contribution today then any relevant interest should be declared.

Clause 12: Right to request permission to keep a pet

Amendment 118

Moved by

Renters’ Rights Bill

Lord Wilson of Sedgefield Excerpts

Monday 28th April 2025 Lords Chamber

Relevant document: 14th Report from the Delegated Powers Committee. Scottish Legislative Consent granted; Welsh Legislative Consent sought.

[Lord in Waiting/Government Whip (Lord Wilson of Sedgefield) (Lab)]

Before we move to the debate on the amendments, I will make a statement. I remind the House again of the protocol around declaring interests. As I mentioned last week, noble Lords should declare relevant interests at each stage of proceedings on a Bill. That means in Committee, relevant interests should be declared during the first group on which a noble Lord speaks. If a noble Lord declared an interest during the last two days in Committee, that is sufficient, but, if this your first contribution, any relevant interests should be declared in a specific but brief way.

Amendment 69

Moved by

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These amendments seek to satisfy the interests of renters and landlords, and indeed the investors standing behind the landlords. They try to avoid the cumbersome conflict and potential delay involved—

[Lord Wilson of Sedgefield (Lab)]

Can I ask the noble Lord to bring his remarks to an end? He has spoken for well over 10 minutes.

[Lord Best (CB)]

They introduce an arrangement that all parties could accept as a distinct improvement on the Bill’s reliance on appeals to the tribunal.

Renters’ Rights Bill

Lord Wilson of Sedgefield Excerpts

Thursday 24th April 2025 Lords Chamber

[Lord in Waiting/Government Whip (Lord Wilson of Sedgefield) (Lab)]

My Lords, before we start the debate on the first group, I remind the Committee of the protocol around declaring interests, following a number of questions. As I mentioned earlier this week, noble Lords should declare any relevant interests at each stage of proceedings on a Bill. That means that, in Committee, relevant interests should be declared during the first group on which a noble Lord speaks. If a noble Lord declared an interest during the previous day of Committee then that is sufficient, but if this is their first contribution then any relevant interest should be declared specifically but briefly.

Clause 3: Sections 1 and 2: effect of superior leases

Amendment 16

Moved by

Renters’ Rights Bill

Lord Wilson of Sedgefield Excerpts

Tuesday 22nd April 2025 Lords Chamber

[Lord in Waiting/Government Whip (Lord Wilson of Sedgefield) (Lab)]

My Lords, before we start the debate on the first group, following a number of questions, the Chief Whip has asked me to remind the House of the protocol on declaring interests. Noble Lords should declare any relevant interest at each stage of proceedings on a Bill. This means that, in Committee, relevant interests should be declared during the first group on which a noble Lord speaks. Declarations should be specific and brief. Members should briefly indicate the nature of their interest and not simply refer to their entry in the Register of Lords’ Interests.

Amendment 1

Moved by

Holocaust Memorial Bill

Lord Wilson of Sedgefield Excerpts

Committee stage
Thursday 27th March 2025 Grand Committee

[Lord Inglewood (CB)]

I am not Jewish, as I have explained to the Committee on previous occasions. I have found what I have heard in the debates around these amendments moving and interesting, but it is important in this context that we are clear that the Holocaust is not exclusively part of Jewish history. It is part of British history—because, for example, my family went and fought the Germans in order to try to rid the world of this evil. Some of my concerns about the proposal in its current form arise from the fact of this slightly wider context. Victoria Tower Gardens are an important site for the whole of the British people, but this commemorates something that, in a different way from the Jewish community, is part of our history and our heritage. It is important that that is borne in mind.

I also think as an individual—and this may engender considerable criticism—that the greatest thing we can do in this country to honour those who died in the Holocaust is to have a country that operates under the rule of law, where Governments cannot bully and just override citizens, and that we have a proper process where all the interested parties have their interests properly taken into account. My amendment—which the Minister, I thought rather unfairly, described as being about planning consent—was about using planning consent as a kind of milestone in the process.

[Lord in Waiting/Government Whip (Lord Wilson of Sedgefield) (Lab)]

I ask the noble Lord to sit down. We are no longer discussing his amendment. This is a completely separate group, and the Minister has now sat down. We need to move on.

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I am saving the best to last, naturally. My noble friend Lord Pickles was, in the nicest possible way, dancing on the head of a pin. He sought to rubbish the whole concept of the amendment by picking on the word “Nazi”. He rightly pointed out that many other countries in Europe were also killing Jews through their various police organisations and other nasty affiliations, but is he seriously suggesting that those countries would have committed their own Holocaust and started exterminating the Jews if Hitler had not given the lead, if they were not inspired by Hitler?

[Lord Wilson of Sedgefield (Lab)]

I just say to noble Lords that we do not want to be reliving the whole debate, as passionate as it is. We should be winding up now, as the Minister has sat down.

[Lord Pickles (Con)]

I can do this in 20 seconds. All I am saying is that the Arrow Cross was murdering Jews in Hungary while Hitler was attempting the Munich putsch. The antisemitic laws were first introduced not at Nuremberg but in Hungary.

Holocaust Memorial Bill

Lord Wilson of Sedgefield Excerpts

Committee stage
Tuesday 4th March 2025 Grand Committee

“to locate their offices, or set up satellite offices, within the wider physical campus. The Commission also recommends that the Learning Centre includes the Imperial War Museum’s Holocaust Exhibition”.

[Lord in Waiting/Government Whip (Lord Wilson of Sedgefield) (Lab)]

I ask the noble Lord to draw his remarks to a conclusion.

[Lord Blencathra (Con)]

I appreciate that. I apologise for going over 10 minutes, but I did not expect to have to do two minutes on the amendments tabled by the right reverend Prelate the Bishop of St Albans.

If I can conclude with just a few more seconds to go, the commission commended the 9/11 exhibition in New York. In November last year, I had to attend some official meetings at the United Nations, so I thought I would go along to see it. I was half expecting it to be, in the usual American way, a bit over the top and a bit tacky, but I was utterly wrong. It was exceptionally well done, moving and authoritative, with exquisite architecture—and it was absolutely massive. It was to commemorate just—just—2,977 victims. We are trying to commemorate 6 million victims by squeezing them into this tiny little bunker under the ground, which has usable space of just 1,700 square metres. It is simply not good enough. I commend my amendments to the Committee.