Universal Credit Deductions

Debate between Margaret Ferrier and Jim Shannon

Wednesday 19th July 2023 Westminster Hall

[Jim Shannon]

My hon. Friend has succinctly made his case in his intervention. The key issue for the Minister—this is from me, the hon. Member for Glasgow South West, who set the scene very well, and, I suspect, everybody on the Opposition Benches—is that there is a delay in the system, and difficulty understanding the system. Whenever we go to the local office, the office manager and staff can respond, but there are many people other than those who come to us—and there are many who come to us, by the way; many come to the office with this issue, because they still cannot understand it. We are asking the Minister for the extra help that is quite clearly needed. There is also the five to six weeks’ delay that many people seem to have. Whenever they earn more money, they fall back down again. They are often sick, and their housing benefit is so complicated; it is almost hard to try to comprehend it.

[Margaret Ferrier]

The hon. Member has talked about budgeting. For many, short-term budgeting is a necessity. The housing element of universal credit is paid directly to claimants, not landlords, which contributes to an entirely foreseeable problem. Does he agree that, especially given soaring living costs, it would help claimants budget if we removed the direct payment of this element to claimants?

[Jim Shannon]

The hon. Lady has demonstrated clearly the complications of this system, and others will, too, because they have the same knowledge and interpretation of it as I have.

I will finish with this. My answer to Richard, the manager of the food bank, is clear: yes, I support what he said. I hope that his letter has clearly illustrated what is needed. Will the Government support that, make things easier for my constituents and do things differently? I hope that the answer to that is also yes; I am sure that it will be. Families—my constituents in Strangford, constituents across the whole of Northern Ireland, and constituents across this great United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland—must be able to depend on their Government, rather than their local food bank. That is my story today.

Antisocial Behaviour in Town Centres

Debate between Margaret Ferrier and Jim Shannon

Wednesday 26th April 2023 Westminster Hall

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

It is a pleasure to speak in this debate, and I thank the hon. Member for Keighley (Robbie Moore) for leading it. In the short time that he has been here, he has had many Westminster Hall and Adjournment debates on similar issues to this one. They are critical issues—the issues that people contact us about most—so it is good that he has set the scene. I thank him for his commitment to bringing such issues to Westminster Hall and the main Chamber for consideration. He deserves credit for that.

I am pleased to speak in the debate, because I have—as others do; I am not different from anybody else—such pride in the town centres in my constituency; Newtownards, Comber and Ballynahinch are the largest towns there. I have mentioned before that my main constituency office is in the town centre of Newtownards, and the sense of community there is so real. It is an area where people learn to know everyone. Of course, the fact that I have lived in the area for all but four years of my life, and have had a fairly long life, means that I know it well. I know the people well and get to know the people who come in. I have become incredibly proud of the area’s reputation.

It is good to see the Minister in her place. She will not have to answer any of the questions that I will pose, because she has no responsibility for them. I always give a Northern Ireland perspective, if I can, because what I say replicates what others have said, and what those who will speak afterwards will say. In Northern Ireland, we are no strangers to having different rules and different council policy. One issue that has become prevalent in more recent years is the antisocial behaviour of youths in Newtownards town centre. We deal with issues of antisocial behaviour every week, unfortunately, and they are critically important for my constituents, be the issue under-age drinking or graffiti.

[Margaret Ferrier]

A problem that has recently resurfaced in parts of my constituency is sectarian graffiti. The perpetrators of a recent spate of graffiti were identified, and they were only teenagers. Does the hon. Member agree that that behaviour can often be generational, and that angle should be given greater consideration?

[Jim Shannon]

As always, the hon. Lady makes a very apt intervention and I thank her for that. In my town of Newtownards, on the Ards peninsula, we have recently witnessed gang warfare, for want of a better description, in which graffiti has been prominent. It has been specific to many people and has been unhelpful, dangerous, vindictive and cruel. She is right to highlight graffiti and the role that needs to be played. At times, we ask: who is responsible for removing the graffiti? It is a very simple issue, but one that crops us. We usually find that the building’s owner paints over it, or if the graffiti is specific and nasty, the council can come out and remove it. So that becomes an issue.

Other problematic issues in my constituency are loitering, loud music and, in some rare cases, drugs. There is absolutely no place for that in our local communities. There is a street in my constituency called Court Street where there are a few derelict houses. On most weekends, there will be youths inside those homes drinking and blasting out music until the early hours; not to mention that the glass in the properties had to be broken at some stage, so there is a real health threat to the young people, too. The police and local councils have boarded up the windows numerous times, as have the owners. A local councillor who works in my office has been contacted out of hours and rung the police numerous times to make them aware of what was happening, but there does not seem to be any strategy to tackle the issue. We need better co-operation between local councils and police to ensure a better response, first, on the issue of building control and who is responsible for making the building safe, and secondly, so the police can give appropriate warnings and take relevant action, should this not stop.

I wish to put on record my thanks to the Police Service of Northern Ireland back home for what it does and, in particular, to the community police officers who do such great work. They interact with community groups, organisations and individuals, and that interaction has been incredibly helpful; on many occasions, it addresses the antisocial issues, and it builds the confidence and the relationship between the general public and the police. It also gives the police a better idea of who is involved.

Another issue in the town that has proven to be a major problem is suspected under-age drinking and drugs in local parks and leisure centres, which is also potentially dangerous for young children. I have highlighted that many times back home. Discarded bottles and sometimes other items, for want of a better description, are left in the children’s playground. It can be a mess of broken glass, takeaway wrappers, litter, cigarette butts and other things, and can also be dangerous.

Lastly, I have no doubt that in some cases parents are completely unaware of where their children are. I am a parent of three boys. They are well grown up now and I have six grandchildren, but we are no strangers to the fact that our children, in the past, fabricated, or could have fabricated, their whereabouts and what they were doing, because sometimes they did not want us to know. Parents can play a huge role in ensuring that their children are responsible and, if they are out and about on weekends, not creating a risk for themselves or other people by behaving antisocially.

I have a great relationship with my local policing team, which will frequently carry out patrolling checks in hotspots to deter any antisocial behaviour. In an intervention, the hon. Member for Totnes (Anthony Mangnall) referred to police hubs. That is one of the things we should look at. It was a wise and helpful intervention, which I think can make a difference. Could the Minister comment on that? I have mentioned before the relationship between councils and local police; there needs to be greater power for the two to work together. For example, councils should be able to renovate buildings that are being abused, and make real use of them to boost the local economy, forcing antisocial behaviour out.

I want to mention something that I think will be helpful for the Minister and which operates across the whole of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. We have a very active street pastors group. I have been involved with them from the very beginning, when a lady called Pam Williamson came to see me. I had always had an interest in them. It started because all the churches came together to address a social issue. It is the sort of reaching out that I love to see—I know that you would as well, Ms McVey. The churches see that they can do something practical on the streets. It was a local group, but it expanded from Newtownards across to Bangor, and down the Ards peninsula to Comber and elsewhere. It is really active and it brings together so many good people with good intentions, who go out at night and reduce antisocial behaviour. The figures have dropped, and that is one of the reasons why. The Minister may wish to refer to that in her speech, and the hon. Member for Keighley, who introduced this debate, may wish to refer to it in his wind-up.

I have seen what the group do. They offer people a bottle of water or a pair of sandals. They help young people who are unfortunately inebriated and do not know what they are doing, and get them home safely. How critical that is for ladies, women and young girls! It is critical for people to have someone there when they are feeling emotionally vulnerable. How important it is to ensure that parents know where their children are! Those are the things that street pastors do. I am a great supporter of street pastors. I think that all Members present have street pastors in their area who do marvellous work. They are an instrument that we can all use, because they have a deep interest in the community.

Landmine Awareness

Debate between Margaret Ferrier and Jim Shannon

Thursday 20th April 2023 Westminster Hall

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

What a pleasure it is to follow the right hon. Member for Aldridge-Brownhills (Wendy Morton). I thank her for setting the scene so incredibly well. Her interest in the subject is well known in the House, and we are pleased to see that when the responsibilities of being a Minister were no longer on her shoulders, she did not lose her interest in the subject, and she is here in Westminster Hall to portray what she knows in a detailed and helpful way.

I am very pleased to see the Minister in her place, and look forward to her response. I will also mention the shadow Minister for the SNP, the hon. Member for Midlothian (Owen Thompson), and my friend, the Labour shadow Minister, the hon. Member for Leeds North East (Fabian Hamilton). It is good to see him in his place. He and I are always have the same interest, compassion and understanding on these matters. We will probably have the same requests as well.

I start with a story about landmines, with which I am unfortunately well acquainted. Thirty-three years ago just passed on 9 April, a massive landmine detonated just outside Ballydugan, outside Downpatrick, killing four young Army soldiers. I tabled an early-day motion, published today, to remember the fact that 33 years ago, those four young men were murdered by the IRA. No one was ever held accountable. Every day of my life, that reminds me personally of what landmines mean. I knew three of those four young men well, and am of an age that means that I can remember when one of them was born. Those who have lived through a campaign of violence, terrorism and murder in Northern Ireland know that landmines were often the method of killing people, including soldiers, police and others who served Government. That 1,000 lb bomb left a crater in the ground; there was little for the families to bury. I remember that; it is very real in my mind, even today, 33 years later. 

I have seen at first hand the devastation of landmines and terrorism. That sticks with a person, and it resonates with us in this sort of debate. The issue is how we address landmines, but they are something of which I am very aware; that is why, as I said to the right hon. Member for Aldridge-Brownhills, I made time to speak today. She asked me to be a co-signatory to her debate application, and I was happy to be one. Sometimes there are pressures on our time—you know this, Mr Mundell, as you will be leading the debate at 3 o’clock—as we try to fit in all the things we need to do. It can put a bit of pressure on us, but we have to ask: can we do more to prevent this devastation?

I wish to put on the record my thanks to the HALO Trust, which was mentioned by the right hon. Lady and will no doubt be mentioned by others, and the other charities for all they do. This is a poignant occasion on which we recognise the International Day for Mine Awareness and Assistance in Mine Action; because of the recess, it was not possible to have the debate on that day—4 April—but the right hon. Lady felt that the debate was important, and I was happy to add my name to it.

As the right hon. Lady said, mine clearance does not happen overnight; I wrote that down in my speech when I prepared this morning. In the Falkland Islands, it took 40 years, but it was a priority, and an undertaking by our Government and Ministers ensured that it happened. It can happen, but it is not something that we can rush; it has to be deliberate, slow and cautious if all mines are to be cleared. It is not like a football match where players are running up and down the field; it is a long, laborious process, and we recognise that.

In the account that the Library always presents to us before debates to help us engineer and put our thoughts together, I read that the Solomon Islands, where the Battle for the Pacific took place, has only just cleared all its mines, 80 years later. That gives an indication of the timescale needed for mine clearance, but there must be a commitment to it, and a process for doing it.

[Margaret Ferrier]

What is probably most awful about landmines is that they are indiscriminate: they cannot tell the difference between an innocent civilian and the enemy, and they remain long after conflicts end. As we have heard, too many children have lost their lives because of that. Does the hon. Member share my concern about the significant reduction in UK Government aid for removal programmes, and agree that Ministers must reinstate the £53 million lost this year?

[Jim Shannon]

I certainly do. The right hon. Member for Aldridge-Brownhills called for that, and I endorse what the hon. Member for Rutherglen and Hamilton West (Margaret Ferrier) says. That is one ask of mine and of the right hon. Lady, and it will certainly be one of the asks of the two shadow spokespersons. The Minister has a bit of time to prepare an answer on how we can address that issue.

The International Campaign to Ban Landmines estimates that at least 60 countries remain contaminated by mines, and in 2021, at least 5,500 casualties were recorded. Most of those casualties were civilians, as the hon. Member for Rutherglen and Hamilton West and the right hon. Member for Aldridge-Brownhills said. What vexes me most—I suspect it vexes us all—is that, in many cases, the casualties are just children. I have six grandchildren. They are incredibly energetic. I am glad that it is my wife who looks after them most of the time; I was going to say that I would not have much hair left if it was I who did, but I have very little hair left anyway. When children go out, they want to play, run, jump and climb trees. We can imagine what happens in areas where wee children want to play and the dangers are not apparent to them. the destruction is very real.

As the right hon. Lady said, landmines affect future generations. It is so important to keep in place the money and investment that has been taken away, so that we can protect future generations and give them the opportunity to enjoy life. The highest numbers of casualties were recorded in Syria, closely followed by Afghanistan. I attend Holy Communion at St Margaret’s church when I am here; I did so on Wednesday. The Rev. Tricia Hillas from St Margaret’s always has a different speaker, and just before Christmas we heard from a guy who was involved in a charity in Syria. He told us about the number of people in Syria—adults and children—who were disabled, having lost limbs. That stuck in my mind. It is not something I would have been particularly knowledgeable about. The charity helps those people directly; they do not have prosthetic limbs, so they use crutches and wheelchairs. It indicates the issues that need to be addressed. I know that Syria has not always been a great friend of the west, but I see past those things. I do not see where Syria is in the world; I just see the people who are injured and need help. Perhaps we need to focus on that.

[Jim Shannon]

The right hon. Lady speaks with great knowledge and understanding, and I do not think anybody present or watching on TV would disagree with her. With compassion in our hearts, we have to see how these people are affected and how we can help them. That is part of the reason why the £53 million reduction is so disappointing.

The right hon. Member for Aldridge-Brownhills referred to Princess Diana. If I close my eyes, I can see Princess Diana there in her top and jeans with her helmet on and the cover over her face, walking through the landmines. She highlighted the issue, as she did many others; HIV is another one that I always remember. She was not afraid to take on the difficult subjects, or to take the lead and raise awareness, as the right hon. Lady said. As we probably all do, I well remember exactly what Princess Diana did on the issue of landmines.

As the Minister is aware, the UK provides aid for landmine clearance through its global mine action programme, but I have to raise recent reductions in aid spending; that is one of my questions, just as it is a question for the hon. Member for Rutherglen and Hamilton West and the right hon. Member for Aldridge-Brownhills, who set the scene. The programme has been decreased by £53 million in the past year. The Minister knows that I always try to be respectful to Ministers, so when I ask the question, I do so only to try to highlight the issue. As the right hon. Lady said, there is more mine usage now, so it is not the time to decrease money; we should at least hold funding at that level. Some would say— I am probably among them—we should look for more. That is the real question we are all asking.

I understand—I put it on the record—that the Government have been incredibly generous. However, at a time of austerity, and when mine usage across the world has become much greater, it is time to reflect on that. My concern is that the reduction does not reflect the urgency of the situation. I sincerely ask the Minister to make it clear that the nation’s view is that we must do all we can to fulfil our international obligations and, as was agreed, dispose of these landmines.

I could not contribute to a debate that involved landmines and not include Ukraine. I do not think there has been a debate on Ukraine that I have not attended, although it may have been a case of being here in Westminster Hall while trying to be in the main Chamber —no matter how good you are, Mr Mundell, you cannot be in two places at once—

[Margaret Ferrier]

You try, Jim.

[Jim Shannon]

Sometimes I try—the other me must be a cardboard cut-out.

Ukraine is a country that needs help. If we look at the time that it took to clear the landmines in the Falklands and in the Solomon Islands in the Pacific ocean— 40 and 80 years—we know the job in Ukraine will be difficult. The other difference is that there is still conflict in Ukraine. I have watched the TV programmes and read the stories in the press; there was a story in the paper last week about Ukrainian mine clearing and the deliberate, slow and cautious way in which it must be done.

The issue is important if Ukraine is ever going to be able to get back to being one of the greatest agricultural producers of grain in the world. The farmers cannot go out into fields where there are mines. Some of those farmers, and their workers, have been injured and their tractors, combines and agricultural machinery have been damaged. Clearing landmines is important if Ukraine is to move into some sort of normality, and in a direction where peace can be restored—that is my hope and the hope of us all.

I respect, and am grateful for, the fact that we have a Government and a Minister who understand the issues. They understand the key role that we play. I say “we” because we are this great United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland; as I always say, with great respect to the SNP spokesperson, we are always better together. I believe that we have a very significant role to play. We can lead, we can show the way and we can invest. I respectfully ask the Minister to ensure that the £23 million is restored.

Asbestos in Workplaces

Debate between Margaret Ferrier and Jim Shannon

Wednesday 19th April 2023 Westminster Hall

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

I congratulate the hon. Member for Loughborough (Jane Hunt) on leading the debate, and I am pleased to follow my friend and good colleague, the hon. Member for Wansbeck (Ian Lavery), who obviously has personal knowledge of this subject.

We have heard about the life-threatening danger of asbestos, which includes diseases as serious as lung cancer. For employers, the health and safety of our staff should be our utmost priority, but we still hear of cases today. That is where I am coming from. Clusters of individuals have become ill due to spaces being riddled with asbestos.

We have similar problems in Northern Ireland. I always bring a Northern Ireland perspective to these debates; it adds to the comments of others across this great United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, where we are often challenged by things not just collectively, but individually in our regions. We must work together towards making all spaces asbestos-free. We must study the figures in greater depth and take the steps necessary to protect and save lives.

When discussing issues relating to asbestos in workplaces or mesothelioma, I often recall a situation in Northern Ireland in late 2018. A Northern Ireland Cancer Registry investigation was triggered by a former member of staff who approached the registry with concerns that several cancers had been diagnosed among people who had been working in one area of the Ulster University Jordanstown campus. However, the NICR found insufficient evidence to prove that it was asbestos in the university that caused cancer in those staff members.

Specific figures for Northern Ireland show that cases where asbestos-related illness was the primary or secondary cause of death increased from 63 in 2019 to 99 in 2020. In some cases, that has been put down to historic working practices and the widespread use of asbestos in the building trade before 1980, with little awareness of the long-term implications. You will recall this story, Mr Paisley: I can remember films of east Belfast and Harland & Wolff—the hon. Member for Loughborough referred to shipbuilding in particular—where asbestos was flying through the streets. Kids were playing in it and breathing it in because they did not know any better. The hon. Member for Wansbeck (Ian Lavery) said a pinhead is enough to be affected. Many people died from that. When I first got elected to the council in 1985, I had a number of constituents who lived in Greyabbey and Ballywalter and worked in the shipyard. The shipyard employed 30,000 people at one time. The number of deaths from mesothelioma or asbestosis was incredible. I have seen men of the ’60s and so on who just could not get a breath and seen the impact of what has happened to them because they did not know. Now that we do know, let us take steps to ensure it does not happen again.

[Margaret Ferrier]

The Control of Asbestos Regulations 2012 are retained EU law, so they will sunset at the end of the year. The Retained EU Law (Revocation and Reform) Bill is still to complete its parliamentary passage. The Government have not yet set out their intentions with this issue specifically. Does the hon. Member agree there must be sufficient planning to prevent a gap in legislation for asbestos, considering the serious health risks?

[Jim Shannon]

I agree with the hon. Lady but I will refer that to the Minister, who I think will be better placed to reply. Again, I am throwing the burden on to the Minister to respond. I know she will be more than happy to do so.

The Government have paid out some £40 million in compensation for asbestos-related illnesses in Northern Ireland, with Belfast shipbuilding unjustly being linked to most of the claims. Asbestos was used in the building materials until it was discovered later that the inhalation of fibres could also cause cancers. Where there has been more in-depth research into links between cancer and asbestos, that has proved to be an ongoing problem. The Department of Education in Northern Ireland—the hon. Members for Loughborough and for Wansbeck referred to this, and I know others will as well—has many buildings that teachers and children use that contain asbestos.

I will highlight one other area that the hon. Lady did not refer to. I do so because I live on a farm, so I understand that asbestos risk is an ongoing problem. I removed one of the roofs just last year. I had to get a specialist company in to do so. They came—it was like “Star Wars”—booted from head to toe, and we were not allowed up near the top of the yard, because obviously stuff was everywhere when they were removing it.

I conclude with this because I am conscious of time. Many have asked what the price of a life is, when preventive steps should be taken to stop lives being unnecessarily lost. Compensation for those who unduly lost loved ones is one thing, but ensuring that proper precautions are taken to make workplaces safe is another. I hope that today, as a joint collective across the whole of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, we can do both. I look forward to the Minister’s response.

Religious Minorities in Nigeria

Debate between Margaret Ferrier and Jim Shannon

Tuesday 18th April 2023 Westminster Hall

[Jim Shannon]

I thank the right hon. Lady for that intervention. I will mention later the lady to whom she has referred. Like the right hon. Lady, I was particularly annoyed and disturbed by the violence that took place. That is the subject of one of the questions that I will ask the Minister, so I thank the right hon. Lady very much for bringing it up.

The situation to which I was referring before the intervention is the assessment not just from the APPG, but from a wider range of experts. The United States Commission on International Religious Freedom states that freedom of religion or belief in Nigeria remains poor and there are widespread instances of violence and kidnapping, of Government inaction and of general criminality that targets religious minority communities, so the right hon. Lady is absolutely right: that is exactly what is happening. Nigeria is a country with so much potential and so much to offer—it is a close contact, of course, of the United Kingdom—so it is really important that this issue is aired.

[Margaret Ferrier (Rutherglen and Hamilton West) (Ind)]

Persecution of religious minorities is still an issue in many parts of the world and many parts of Nigeria. That includes minorities such as those of the Baha’i faith. Does the hon. Member agree that the UK Government could exert greater influence through their diplomatic routes to pressure Governments such as the Nigerian one to commit to better treatment of minorities?

[Jim Shannon]

I thank the hon. Lady for that intervention. As always, she brings to us her knowledge and a very helpful question. I agree with her. There is a role for our Foreign Office to perhaps be more active, and I think that that is what I am going to ask for as I move through this speech.

Last year the Foreign Affairs Committee released a report entitled “Lagos calling: Nigeria and the Integrated Review”, which urged the Government to focus on priority areas of engagement, including improving the human rights record of the Nigerian security sector, promoting the rule of law, supporting the rights of minority groups in Nigeria, and promoting freedom of religion or belief.

In January of this year, Open Doors launched the 2023 world watch list, which placed Nigeria at No. 6 in the top 50 countries where it is hardest to be a Christian. A country does not want to be in the top 10; Nigeria is sixth. Open Doors describes how Christians in some parts of the country face persecution that is extreme and often brutally violent. Islamic militants and armed bandits attack communities in northern and middle belt states with increasing impunity. The fact that it is happening with, it seems, little done to stop them adds to the issues.

There have been increasing attacks in southern states, too. If violence was the sole factor in the Open Doors world watch list, Nigeria would be at the top. Last year 5,014 Christians were killed in attacks in places of worship in Christian communities in Nigeria. That accounts for 87% of the total number of Christians killed for their faith worldwide in 2022. No one can say that Christians in Nigeria are not targets.

Last year was by no means an outlier. Just last week The Tablet newspaper reported that in the last 14 years at least 52,250 Christians were killed in Nigeria—targeted because of their faith. The trend is escalating. Under the last Government more than 30,250 Christians were killed alongside an estimated 34,000 Muslims. They were killed in attacks that deliberately targeted places of worship or communities because of their religious affiliation. Attacks were primarily carried out by non-state actors, including Boko Haram, Islamic State and the Fulani herders.

Support for Women in Poverty

Debate between Margaret Ferrier and Jim Shannon

Thursday 23rd March 2023 Westminster Hall

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

I beg to move,

That this House has considered the matter of support for women in poverty.

First, I thank the Backbench Business Committee for allowing this debate to take place. We are indebted to that Committee for all that it does. It is these debates that enable us as MPs to bring issues to the House for consideration.

My hon. Friend the Member for Upper Bann (Carla Lockhart) was meant to lead this debate, but unfortunately she had to go home for a pressing engagement. As we applied for the debate together, we decided that I should lead the debate on her behalf.

People in every constituency can associate with this issue and fully understand the difficulties and intricacies involved. When my sister Joy decried the lack of help around the house from her brothers, including me, my mother would often say that a woman’s lot in life is what it is. My mother accepted the fact that she worked her fingers to the bone in the shop in Ballywalter we had from the ’60s through to the ’80s, and ran her home. What is more, she revelled in that role. My mother today is a very, very fresh 91-year-old who still tells her biggest son what to do and when to do it. She also gives me her clinical opinion on everything that happens in this place, because she is really, really with it when it comes to what is happening. She is a very capable lady who has thrived on hard work all of her days.

As time has progressed, the expectations placed upon people’s shoulders have escalated beyond bearing. I wish to outline the issues faced by all women. I will speak from the honest perspective of a man, while also reflecting the opinions and views of my hon. Friend the Member for Upper Bann. It should not be that a woman has to accept a substandard quality of life in the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland as so many do, and changes must be implemented now.

Let me talk about what we are doing in Ards, North Down and Strangford. The Ards community rural network has recently opened a women and family hub at 55 Francis Street, just up the road from my own office. I was really pleased to see it, because it focuses attention on the issues of women, children and families in my constituency. The Ards network has also done a lot of research into the prevalence of poverty in everyday life across Ards and North Down.

The network has collected some lived experiences, which include those of people who live alone and lone parents. Let me give Members an example that I was given the other day in preparation for this debate. A lady called in to see us; she was contemplating whether it was better to give up her job as a classroom assistant because she would be £700 better off if she did so. That is the reality for a woman living in poverty in the United Kingdom, in my constituency of Newtonards.

[Margaret Ferrier (Rutherglen and Hamilton West) (Ind)]

Nine out of 10 single parents are women. The median gross weekly pay for male single parents is £340, but for women it is £194.40. It cannot be denied that a key factor is gender, as women in general are more likely to be paid less or have to work part time. Does the hon. Gentleman share my concern that the Government are not looking at the big picture of why women are more likely to live in persistent poverty? A variety of factors influences their income.

[Jim Shannon]

The hon. Lady is absolutely right, and the statistics from Northern Ireland reflect that. They indicate that what she said is factual and regularly happens to a lot of people.

In Newtownards, we have been working with the Department for Communities and the Northern Ireland Assembly on a women’s development programme. The things that we are doing in my constituency are positive and proactive, and will hopefully lead to the progress that we need.

It is a real pleasure to see the Minister in her place; we look forward to her response. The two shadow spokespeople will, as always, contribute in a very positive fashion and help us to get results from the Minister. I applied for this debate not because I was reminiscing about my childhood with my mum, who was a very, very strong character, but because my hon. Friend the Member for Upper Bann drew my attention to the issue. We hope it will grasp the attention of Members who can drive for change.

Let me outline some of the facts, which reflect individually and corporately the issues that women in the UK face. Among those who die at working age, 28% of women spend their last year of life below the poverty line compared with 26% of men. Of those who die at pension age, 14% of women spend their last year of life in poverty, compared with 11% of men. That shows another inequality between men and women: women have the greater pain in their last days.

For women in the last year of their life the risk of being in poverty rises by a third compared with women in the general population. Working-age women are three times as likely to be in part-time employment as men. That is a fact of life; I experience it every day in my office and in my advice centre in Strangford. Women are also disproportionately represented in low-paid jobs. More than a quarter of women in work earn less than the real living wage, compared with just 16% of men. As a result, if they lose their job or give up their work, nearly two thirds of working-age women have savings that would last a month or less, and a third have savings that would last less than a week. Women unfortunately do not that much to fall back on. They make very good use of the money that they have, but they do not have that wee bit extra—that wee bit of cream to get them through the harder times. That increases the poverty risk among working-age women in their last years of life.

I will pause for a second to give a Northern Ireland perspective. I always give a Northern Ireland perspective in debates because it helps to formulate opinion, and helps the Minister and shadow Ministers to add their contribution. The unemployment rate for males in Northern Ireland has been consistently higher than for females over the past 10 years. Although the number of employees in Northern Ireland was very evenly spread between males and females, the number of self-employed males was more than double the number of self-employed females, and males were more likely to work full time than females. Furthermore, approximately 60% of employed women with dependent children work full time, compared with 95% of males with dependent children.

The unemployment rate for males in Northern Ireland has been consistently higher than for females over the past 10 years, but the gap is narrowing. By 2019, 44% of unemployed people were female and 56% were male. It is almost like-for-like; that shows the trend. Over the past 10 years, there have been consistently more economically inactive women than men. In 2019, just under a third of working-age women were economically inactive, compared with just under a quarter of men.

The most common reason for inactivity among women was family and home commitments. That might be society, but, to be honest, from my point of view, when my wife and I got married, we always wanted children, so we had three children in the first five years of our married life and my decision, and Sandra’s decision, was to be with the children. She was a mother who looked after the home and the children, and she did it very well, whereas most of the time I was away from the house. That is probably a conducive factor in a good married life—we spent enough time apart to be able to spend the rest of the time together and not fall out.

The most common reason for inactivity for men was sickness or disability. Some 76% of women with dependent children were economically active compared with 92% of men. The lowest rates for women were those with young dependent children, of pre-school age. That reflects the experience in my society and constituency today. Women are more likely to have dependent children and childcare costs than men. I welcome the Government’s action in the Budget on childcare costs. It is really important that childcare support is increased and women are enabled to gain more active employment, right across the United Kingdom.

Marie Curie research has also shown that, UK-wide, working-age people with dependent children are more likely to experience poverty in their last years of life. Among pensioners, women have lower individual retirement incomes than men, reflecting lower average employment over their working lives and lower lifetime earnings than men, and a higher likelihood of having taken time out of the labour market or working part time to raise children. It is a fact of life, and it is again why the issue of women in poverty in the UK is so important.

Retired women are likely to be living closer to the poverty line than men are. This simply feels wrong. I ask the Minister what we are doing to help elderly women who are nearing the last years of their life and who are feeling the financial pressure. They are in the poverty bracket, and they may possibly have disabilities as well. Women aged over 70 in the UK are more than twice as likely as men to live alone, reflecting the average life expectancy of a lady. Living alone is associated with a higher risk of poverty among both the working-age and pension-age population. Some 29% of single pensioners experience poverty in the last years of life, compared with just 21% of pensioners living as a couple. These are the facts according to Marie Curie’s research, which is detailed and well evidenced.

The higher risk of poverty at the end of life for women of both working age and pension age is representative of the inequalities that have built up throughout their lives. These lifelong inequalities mean women are less well placed, on average, than men to bear the additional costs brought on by terminal illness. Many people of that age group who come to me have disabilities. I always point people to the benefits system—attendance allowance, pension credit and so on. We have a very good working relationship with the food bank in our area as well. Those are areas where we are able to help immediately and try to give assistance.

Inequalities persist and are magnified, with retired women’s risk of poverty at the end of life increasing at a higher rate than that of men. Marie Curie’s research also found that women and people from minoritised ethnic groups are more likely to experience poverty at the end of life than men or people from white ethnic groups. The evidential base is clear that ethnic groups are more likely to have those problems, and I ask the Minister for any further information.

The Royal College of Psychiatrists has highlighted the well-established links between women’s experiences and their risk of developing a mental illness. For example, women are more likely to be on lower incomes, at risk of domestic abuse and have additional caring responsibilities. Almost always the lady of the house—the mum—is the carer. All of that increases the risk of developing a mental illness. Around one in five women experience a common mental disorder, such as anxiety or depression, compared with one in eight men, according to the most recent NHS adult morbidity survey. Despite this, there are still thousands of women and girls who struggle alone, and they could miss out on vital support as a result of that bias.

[Margaret Ferrier]

Poverty and food insecurity are not just about going hungry; as the hon. Gentleman said, there are knock-on effects on health and cognitive ability, and therefore educational attainment. People cannot concentrate on lessons or exams when they have not eaten all day, and that can be combined with the other factors that limit women’s chances of breaking out of poverty in adulthood. Does the hon. Gentleman agree that the Government must give due focus to how their benefits policies may perpetuate the poverty cycle?

[Jim Shannon]

I think they do, but I have no doubt whatsoever that the Minister will answer our questions. I thank the hon. Lady for her intervention. Hopefully, we will get an indication of what the Government are doing to address that.

The Department of Health and Social Care surveyed 100,000 women and found that 42% of women would not feel comfortable talking to a family member about their mental health condition, 36% would not feel comfortable doing so with a healthcare professional, and 30% with a friend. Young adults and women were more likely to report worse mental health and wellbeing during the first national lockdown than older adults and men.

Even before the pandemic hit, mental health services were not keeping up with demand. I ask the Minister: what has been done to improve mental health conditions, particularly for women in poverty? We must focus the resources on where the problems are. This debate is an opportunity to identify that. During the covid-19 crisis, school and nursery closures, and homeworking, became a great problem for women, and contributed to poverty, as the hon. Lady referred to. It also contributed to a greater risk of psychological distress.

Reductions in local authority budgets have meant that a disproportionate number of women have taken up roles as unpaid carers. Again, is there anything we can do to help unpaid carers? I know that the Minister has been working hard on matters of gender equality and will continue to do so, but I honestly feel that the burden of children falls mostly on women, not due to the system we are in but due to a mindset. I think there is a mindset. For instance, whenever Naomi, my office assistant, had to take her daughter for surgery, she got parenting leave while her husband went to work. Without stress, her contract allowed for that first week. That is what a caring employer would do. I did that, but not everyone does.

A lady who worked in the retail sector came to see me. Her daughter took sick, and she had to take annual leave, as sick pay would not kick in for four days. Those are issues of unfairness in the equalities system. I was able to do the right thing; perhaps, other employers were not. That lady then had to work Christmas and new year, as she did not have the time off. To me, that is evidence of a clear inequality and is something that we need to address.

The reality is that the toll of poverty on women can be seen in the most despicable of ways. This is rather a sad case, but it is a factual case, and I used it without any names as an example in the Northern Ireland Affairs Committee. A lady took out a loan with a local loan shark to replace her cooker. She came to my office in tears. She had paid £500 back for her £300 cooker and yet was defaulting, according to the loan shark, and had been told—this is rather difficult to say in this Chamber—that she could pay off her loan in another way. She came to me in desperation. I was able to step in and point her to the help that she needed at that time, but I often wonder how many others find themselves in that particular predicament and how many women in poverty have been forced to do unspeakable things by people in their own community. That must end.

These women are hard working. Their poverty is nothing to do with their choices; it is to do with their circumstances, and we must work in this House to alter those circumstances. It is about the help that we can give. I believe that the Government must consider “women in poverty” funds within communities and that we must ensure that this Minister and her portfolio are funded appropriately, which must translate to help on the ground for the low-income mother who faces in-work poverty; for the lady who is asked to debase herself to provide a cooker for her family—how hard that must be for that lady, and for us in this House to be aware of that; and for the ill lady who has worked all her life, but is not entitled to enough help to deal with her illness and bring her out of poverty.

I support the calls of Marie Curie, which are particularly relevant for women in poverty, to give all terminally ill people access to their state pension regardless of age. It cannot be right that people who are forced to give up work due to their condition are left significantly more at risk of poverty in their final months and years simply because they are not yet old enough to claim the state pension. On average, terminally ill people in working age have made 24 years’ worth of qualifying national insurance contributions by their last year of life. The hon. Members for North Ayrshire and Arran and for Rutherglen and Hamilton West have also spoken about the WASPI—Women Against State Pension Inequality Campaign—women on many occasions; again, I feel we have an example of that. Research shows that the Government could deliver change on those pensions for just 0.1% of the annual state pension bill. I am ever mindful that this is not the Minister’s ultimate responsibility, so if she was able to send this matter on to the responsible Minister, I would very much appreciate it.

I conclude with this: the question of women in poverty is a real issue in the UK and the solution must be real. I encourage the Minister to liaise with her Cabinet colleagues to find other ways and find additional funding that makes its way straight on to the ground for those women in dire circumstances and make the future brighter for children in the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, like my three granddaughters, who deserve the best that can be offered. I thank you, Mr Sharma, for giving me the opportunity to play a part in the delivery of that goal. I look forward to others’ contributions, and in particular the Minister’s response. I find that the Minister always genuinely tries to respond in a positive fashion. I think she grasps the issues. Today, I have hopefully—in a very stuttering way—been able to put forward the case for women in poverty across this great nation of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.

Relations with China: Xi Jinping Presidency

Debate between Margaret Ferrier and Jim Shannon

Thursday 16th March 2023 Westminster Hall

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

I beg to move,

That this House has considered the matter of relations with China during the presidency of Xi Jinping.

I place on the record my thanks to the Backbench Business Committee for granting this debate. It was put in for at short notice; we wanted to do it as quickly as we could, so we thank the Committee for agreeing to it. It is important that we have the opportunity to discuss the last 10 years under China’s leader, Xi Jinping, and how his time in office has seen a drastic rise in nefarious activities inside and outside China, many of which have been used to attack human rights, freedom of speech and media, and freedom of religion and belief. I declare an interest as chair of the all-party parliamentary group for international freedom of religion or belief. That topic is very close to my heart. It is one of the reasons why I am here and it is ultimately and initially the reason why I asked for this debate.

We speak up for those with a Christian faith across the world, for those with other faiths and, indeed, for those with no faith, so I am pleased to see right hon. and hon. Members here today, to see the shadow spokespersons and to see the Minister in his place. When it comes to speaking up for freedom of religion and belief in China, we could write a book on the number of occasions when China has disregarded it, has discriminated, has persecuted and has used actions that are illegal in any democratic society against those of Christian faith and, indeed, other faith. I am speaking here of the genocide of Uyghurs in Xinjiang., which the right hon. Member for Chingford and Woodford Green (Sir Iain Duncan Smith) and others in the House and here today have brought to the attention of MPs on regular occasions.

[Margaret Ferrier (Rutherglen and Hamilton West) (Ind)]

It is reported that, in its efforts to control the Uyghur population, the Chinese Communist party has forced Uyghur women to marry Han Chinese men, to have abortions and to repress their Uyghur culture and religion. Does the hon. Member agree that Ministers must recognise the plight of the Uyghur people, and the Uyghur tribunal’s finding that they have been subject to a genocide?

[Jim Shannon]

The hon. Lady is absolutely right. The disgraceful and quite illegal treatment of the Uyghurs in China has disturbed us and put a burden on our hearts for them. We cannot understand how any country that espouses freedom—as China likes to say it does whenever it does the very opposite—can act in that way. The forced sterilisation of women, the abuse of women, the imprisonment of millions of Uyghurs in camps and the taking away of their religious liberty and their right to express themselves concern us greatly, so the hon. Lady is right to highlight that matter and to ensure that we have the opportunity to understand it.

The crackdown in Hong Kong is another issue. We watched as we handed over Hong Kong to the Chinese. The Chinese made lots of assertions that they would ensure that freedom was maintained, and for a short period it was, but things have gone downhill over the past few years, and China is cracking down hard on any expression in Hong Kong.

[Jim Shannon]

The right hon. Gentleman is truly wise in his words, and I fully agree with his comments. I had the same concern. When the deal was done, there seemed to be almost wishful thinking from the UK Government that things would be all right, when the reality should have told us—and the Government—that they definitely would not.

The issue of tying business and economic opportunities in with human rights is something I have espoused in Westminster Hall, but also in the main Chamber and through the APPG as well. We need to marry the two together; the one cannot succeed without the others’ interpretation.

[Margaret Ferrier]

The hon. Gentleman is being generous with his time. Hundreds were expected to march in Hong Kong for gender equality ahead of International Women’s Day, but the demonstration was called off with just hours’ notice by organisers. Human Rights Watch said that the authorities seemed to be approving demonstrations while intimidating organisers and participants with jail time to deter participation. Does the hon. Gentleman share my concern about the continued impact of Hong Kong’s national security laws on the right to peaceful protest?

[Jim Shannon]

I do, and with some annoyance, anger and compassion for the residents of Hong Kong because they are being denied the freedom they once had. The UK Government have obviously stepped in and offered some passage for many Hong Kongers to come here to live. That is good news, but would it not be better if they were able to stay in their own country and exercise the freedom they once had?

We also have the continuing repression in Tibet. It was a salient reminder, when I did my research before this debate, when I found out that the suppression in Tibet has been going on since 1950. That is five years before I was born, so Tibetans’ freedoms have been denied and restricted for a long, long time. I understand that the inauguration of a new Dalai Lama will be at the behest of the Chinese Communist party. A religious group cannot appoint its own leader in Tibet, but only because the Chinese Communist party will not let them. Again, that is another example of what is going on inside China, and of China’s influence and control.

--- Later in debate ---

[Margaret Ferrier]

Following the announcement that Honduras is seeking diplomatic ties with China, Taiwan has just a few remaining formal allies on the global stage, most of which are small, poor nations in the Pacific. Does the hon. Gentleman agree that the UK must use its influence on the world stage to help protect Taiwan’s rights as an independent nation?

[Jim Shannon]

I certainly do and I very much welcome the Prime Minister’s announcement this week of the submarine deal between the UK, USA and Australia. That shows that there is a commitment, although of course we probably want to see much more than that. The hon. Lady is absolutely right and I thank her for that intervention.

If we think that things are bad now, imagine the pain that will be inflicted on the UK and the world when—I use these words carefully—China invades Taiwan. Hon. Members will note that I said “when” rather than “if” China moves to take Taiwan. Xi Jinping has reaffirmed his commitment to communist Chinese rule of Taiwan, by force—his words—if necessary.

We cannot fall asleep at the wheel while getting lulled to sleep by the comfort of investments, trade, and cash flows. We should begin the careful process of reducing our reliance on Chinese-made goods and products right now. Let us start taking a careful look at where British businesses invest and give them warnings that contracts and treaties may not be upheld, and to be careful about where they invest their money.

Let us start speaking up for those who are being oppressed in Xinjiang, Hong Kong and Tibet. Let us get British citizen Jimmy Lai out of prison and let us not ponder solely on how China might react, but instead give China pause for thought about what it might lose by not working with the United Kingdom.

I believe in good relations; I also believe in doing what is right, as we all do in this Chamber. I know that there is a balance to be struck.

Single-Parent Families

Debate between Margaret Ferrier and Jim Shannon

Tuesday 14th March 2023 Westminster Hall

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

It is not often I get called first in a debate in Westminster Hall. The reason I have been today is that I am the only Back Bencher —I hope that augurs better for the future. It was a pleasure to listen to the hon. Member for East Dunbartonshire (Amy Callaghan) putting forward the issues for single-parent families.

Over many years in my constituency, and particularly over the past three years, I have dealt with mothers who have valiantly looked after their children in the face of financial difficulties. The hon. Lady ably outlined that case and the problems for constituents, and I look forward to hearing what the two shadow Ministers—the hon. Members for Glasgow East (David Linden) and for Wirral South (Alison McGovern)—and particularly the Minister have to say. I am not saying that to give the Minister a big head, but because I believe he understands the issues we are referring to. I know from my deliberations with him, and from those of others, that he shows understanding and compassion, and provides help, for those who are under pressure, vulnerable and finding life difficult. When he responds at the end, I am fairly confident—without writing his script for him—that he will be able to address some of the issues and concerns that we have.

We stand up for these lone parents. Every Member here will be aware of the struggles they have had over the past couple of months and—let us be honest—over the past three years, as the hon. Member for East Dunbartonshire mentioned. Covid brought the extra pressure of living together and not being able to go out. It brought the pressure of ill health and put pressure on finances, with people not being able to work and earn money for the family. Children must have the best start in life, and parents feel the utmost responsibility to ensure that they can give them that. Every parent—mum or dad—can give their child that start in life and put them on the road to a successful future.

[Margaret Ferrier]

Single parents want to be a good role model for their children but, in reality, they often experience long periods of unemployment, are unable to work all the hours they want, are forced to accept lower-paid jobs and may have to put their career aspirations aside in their child’s early years. Does the hon. Gentleman agree that the impact that that can have on a single parent’s mental wellbeing should not be overlooked? That would influence how the child feels in that relationship.

[Jim Shannon]

I thank the hon. Lady for that intervention. Yes, I do concur with that, because I have seen it in my constituency. People have come to me in times of torment and difficulty, when the pressure is very much upon them. With that in mind, we have to look not only at the financial help we give but at the broader picture of mental health and anxiety issues and at family support, when that is needed.

Parents’ guilt due to the current financial situation has left them no choice but to scrape their last pennies together to put a meal on the table. I am sorry to have to say that that is the reality. It is not the Government’s fault, by the way, but the nature of society and of what has happened over the past two or three years.

Decarbonising Rural Transport

Debate between Margaret Ferrier and Jim Shannon

Tuesday 7th March 2023 Westminster Hall

[Jim Shannon]

To be first on the list—my goodness. I am almost in a state of shock. Mr Davies, you are very kind. Thank you for giving me the chance to contribute. Others will contribute as well.

I thank the hon. Member for North Devon (Selaine Saxby) for leading today’s debate and setting the scene so well. She is right. The examples from her constituency are replicated across all the other constituencies represented here. Those hon. Members who have intervened so far have given an indication of the same issues.

As someone who represents a rural constituency, I have stated before that it is imperative that there is sustainable and economical transport for our constituents who live out in the countryside. I am very fortunate in that I have lived in the countryside all my life. I am very pleased to do so. I love the green fields; I do not like the concrete—that is no secret. That is why London does not really appeal to me as a place where I would want to live—there is not enough greenery around me to enjoy. But that is a choice that I have and that I have been able to make over the years.

We have seen the expansion of “green” transport to protect and preserve our atmosphere and environment, and we must continue to do this as time goes on. The hon. Lady outlined that. The issue must be addressed not only in England but UK-wide to ensure that we are consistent and equal in our efforts to decarbonise rural transport. I realise that the Minister is responsible only for England, but my comments will be on Northern Ireland, as they always are, and what we have done there.

Electric car charging points are few and far between. In rural areas, we have few or no charging points; they are always concentrated, as it is probably right that they should be, in towns—in my constituency, it is the towns of Newtownards and Comber. There are not enough charging points; I realise that. Central Government here have taken a decision to support the Northern Ireland Assembly and, with that process in mind, have allocated money to ensure that charging points are available across my constituency as well. There is an issue not with the number of charging points but with the time it takes to charge a car. The hon. Member for North Devon talked about needing 20 feet of cable to charge her car. Wherever there is a charging point, it is also important to have enough charging connections. I am not in any way influenced to buy an electric car, but my sons have done so; they are moving with the times, while their father may not be anxious to do that. My point is that we need charging points and enough connections. If it takes six hours to charge a car, as some people have indicated to me, then that tells me that we need more connections.

[Margaret Ferrier]

Transitioning the country from petrol to electric vehicles requires extensive work that needs to be done by 2030. The Government have already acknowledged that poor grid connectivity in rural areas could be a real problem when it comes to the charging infrastructure. Does the hon. Member agree that the current reliance on the private sector to decide on charge point locations and the lack of central policy around that could create a barrier to reaching the target?

[Jim Shannon]

I thank the hon. Lady for her wise and salient words. In Newtownards for example, people can charge their electric cars at the shopping centre, but if they want to go elsewhere in the town, they cannot charge their cars. Councils have a key role in prioritising charging points and, as the hon. Lady said, we must not depend on private companies, who may put charging points only in places that are advantageous to them. I am not saying such companies do not have a role, but the issue needs to be looked at more widely and in greater depth.

I am pleased to record a recent development by Wrightbus, whose headquarters are in Ballymena, in Northern Ireland, in the constituency of my hon. Friend the Member for North Antrim (Ian Paisley); indeed, my hon. Friend talked about this last week at Transport questions in the main Chamber. Wrightbus has secured a major order to supply 117 zero-emission buses across England, thanks to an investment of £25.3 million by the Government. That is an example of the many things that the Government are doing.

Operated by First Bus, the buses will be rolled out across Yorkshire, Norfolk, Portsmouth and Hampshire, and will enable passengers to enjoy greener, cleaner journeys. Therefore there is a strategy and we, in Northern Ireland, are very much part of that. The new buses will be manufactured by Wrightbus in Ballymena, supporting hundreds of new high-skilled jobs to help level up and grow the economy. Some of those workers live in my constituency of Strangford and travel to the Wrightbus headquarters for their work, so there is a spin-off in jobs, opportunity and economic advantage.

The new additional funding brings the vision of a net zero transport network one step closer to reality. The double-decker battery electric buses are 44% more efficient grid to wheel, saving energy costs and carbon. That is another example of how we are moving forward. The fact that the buses are manufactured in Ballymena means that the whole United Kingdom has the chance to benefit from that advantage, and hopefully other companies will be able to do the same.

The funding is an additional investment from the zero-emission buses regional area scheme, which was launched in 2021 to allow local transport authorities to bid for funding for zero-emission buses and supporting infrastructure. The Government have a policy that is working. Obviously it is a first stage, but I believe the policy will be able to go a lot further.

While it is a welcome and much-needed step, it goes back to my point that this needs to be a UK-wide measure. As the buses are manufactured in Northern Ireland, it would be fantastic for the Northern Ireland economy if some of the buses could be administered across the Province. We manufacture and sell the buses across the United Kingdom, but unfortunately we do not have much take-up back home, but I know Translink, our bus company, has purchased some.

The Secretary of State for Transport met Wrightbus representatives to discuss the success and stated that it would help level up transport across the country, yet the funding has been awarded only to places in England. While I respect the fact that infrastructure and transport are devolved matters, there needs to be greater communication between Westminster and the devolved Governments in relation to nationwide levelling up. I support the Government’s levelling-up policy. I think they have taken giant leaps to make levelling up happen, and this is such an example.

We need ideas for decarbonising public transport in more rural areas, where the population is more dispersed. As others have said, we do not have the continuity or regularity of buses that we should have in rural communities in order to incentivise people to leave their cars and use buses. We in the countryside—especially where I live in the Ards peninsula; indeed, in the whole of the Ards peninsula—depend on our cars, whether they are diesel, petrol or, in my son’s case, electric.

It will always be challenging and expensive to provide the decarbonisation of public transport, but many residents have brought to my attention that some rural buses routes are extremely limited anyway, and I want to put that on the record. There is hope that installing hydrogen buses in rural areas will further discourage people from using cars, which is certainly the intention. People with cars can jump in them and go—they do not have to wait for a bus to come along—but others are probably in a position where they can do that. The use of hydrogen buses and other approaches tend to focus on densely populated urban areas, as there may be a critical mass of people to support public transport services, so it is great to see some Government commitment and willingness to ensure that efforts are made to decarbonise our rural communities too.

I hope that the Minister can join me in congratulating Wrightbus, take the comments of Members from across the House into consideration, and ensure that there is equal opportunity for rural decarbonisation across the whole of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.

Human Rights and Religious Minorities: Sudan

Debate between Margaret Ferrier and Jim Shannon

Thursday 23rd February 2023 Westminster Hall

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

I beg to move,

That this House has considered human rights and religious minorities in Sudan.

I think the last time we discussed this matter was a debate in 2020. There was some optimism then, some two and a half or three years ago. This time round, I have done my research—Members have all done research on the issue—and the facts indicate a level of persecution and human rights abuse that is very disappointing. I am pleased that Members have been able to attend, and I look forward to the contributions of the shadow spokespeople—the hon. Member for Glasgow North (Patrick Grady) for the SNP and the hon. Member for West Ham (Ms Brown) for Labour. It is nice to see the hon. Lady in her place and I know that the contribution that she and others make will be significant.

I am especially pleased to see the Minister in her place. We have had a good working relationship over the years on many things. I understand that this issue is not her direct responsibility, but I am sure she will convey our requests to the appropriate Minister. I have about five or six requests, which I will make at the end.

I thank the Backbench Business Committee for the opportunity to highlight human rights abuses and the state of freedom of religion or belief in Sudan. Sudan has not received much parliamentary attention in recent years. In the previous debate in 2020, I expressed cautious optimism in the positive direction of the country at that time. The regime of Omar al-Bashir had just been overthrown, and a transitional Government had a mandate to establish democratic elections. The country’s new constitution enshrined freedom of religion or belief, the apostasy law was repealed and many closed churches were allowed to open. It looked like we had turned a corner and things were going to get better. In fact, the changes were significant enough for the country to be removed from the United States’ special watchlist. Countries on that list are a focus of attention; in countries that are not, things are better.

[Margaret Ferrier (Rutherglen and Hamilton West) (Ind)]

Sudan made important strides in upholding human rights and freedom of religion in the aftermath of the 2019 revolution. That progress is now at high risk following the military coup. The Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office notes that the Sudanese people’s freedoms are already severely limited. Does the hon. Gentleman agree that the UK Government and our international partners must continue to urge the authorities to protect the rights of the Sudanese people as a priority?

--- Later in debate ---

[Jim Shannon]

As always, the hon. Lady makes a salient and important intervention, and I wholeheartedly applaud what she says. My contribution will explain what she said in her intervention in more detail.

This year marks the 20th anniversary of the genocide in Darfur—an important reminder that we have a duty to prevent mass atrocities, not just to punish the perpetrators after a genocide has occurred. The last few years have not been very kind to Sudan. A military coup in October 2021 has damaged the progress achieved by the transitional Government, and has led to increased human rights abuses and a resurgence of discrimination and violence against religious or belief minorities. The country rose to number nine in the Open Doors 2023 world watch list. Countries in the top 10 are not there for good reasons: if they are the top 10, they have done things wrong. The freedoms that communities had experienced were cruelly stripped away.

The coup returned effective control to the military and fundamentalist Islamic groups that made up Omar al-Bashir’s Government. Some of the bad guys that were there before are back in charge again; many former members of the regime have returned to power. As a result, a fundamentalist ideology once again forms a central part of the military junta. A military Government led by Abdel Fattah al-Burhan imposed a state of emergency, which allowed the army to consolidate its rule—in other words, to use strong-arm methods. That gave them sweeping powers, which have been used to roll back much of the progress achieved by the transitional Government. Al-Bashir scrapped Sudan’s new constitution, which had enshrined protections for religious minorities, including freedom of worship and freedom to change one’s religion.

As chair of the all-party parliamentary group for international freedom of religion or belief, I am pleased to speak on behalf of my Christian brothers and sisters in Sudan. I may never meet them in this world, but I can still speak for them. I speak for other religious minorities as well—Sudan’s Shi’a, Jewish and Baha’i communities are also suffering under a cruel regime that wants to properly impose sharia law in the judicial system.

Shi’a Muslims currently experience widespread discrimination. There have been several high-profile attacks on Shi’a mosques, which has led to many Shi’as self-censoring and avoiding voicing their beliefs or religious practices that differ from the Sunni practice. Under the transitional Government, Sudan invited its Jewish diaspora to return, as many had fled persecution under al-Bashir’s regime. That attitude has changed, and the country’s tiny Jewish community now faces violent attacks and hate speech. The state TV channel, under control of the military junta, has broadcast antisemitic conspiracies, with one programme stating that “Jews epitomise all trickery”. The Baha’i community is not recognised by the country, and can operate only in secret.

I will use the remainder of my time to talk about Sudan’s Christian community, partly because, as a Christian, the issue is close to my heart, but also for practical reasons. It has been easier to document attacks and discrimination against Sudan’s Christians, not only because they are a larger minority than the Jews and the Baha’is but because they are unable to operate under the radar by self-censoring. They have chosen not to do that. The crimes committed against them could be considered a case study of how Sudan treats religious minorities.

The coup led to a near-instant escalation of violence and intimidation directed at Sudan’s Christians. Overnight, the community faced severe restrictions on its religious practices and freedom of worship. Two broad issues have had a significant effect on the lives of Christians in Sudan: the change in the role of the police—directed by the military junta and the imposed Government—and increased pressure from society and extremist groups. Following the coup, the country’s senior police officers were replaced with individuals aligned to the al-Bashir regime. They got rid of them and then they brought them back to enforce the regime, only this time they are supported entirely by the Government. The groups most affected by that move are the church leaders and women.

[Margaret Ferrier]

In October, Sudan was re-elected to the UN Human Rights Council despite ongoing concerns about abuses in the country, and particularly those perpetrated by the security services. Does the hon. Gentleman share the worry that this could risk affecting the perception of the UNHRC’s credibility?

[Jim Shannon]

I will refer to that near the end of my contribution. I do share that worry. It seems unreal to me that any country would be elected to that position when they have a totally different attitude to what the UNHRC wants to achieve. I thank the hon. Lady for highlighting that.

Under the transitional Government, police were ordered to protect places of worship, but there are now worrying reports that they are being used to silence minorities. Church leaders have been harassed, arrested and even tortured by the police. Security forces have destroyed churches and stolen church assets. In one instance, a pastor in Darfur and his three children died in “mysterious circumstances” after a visit from—guess who?—the armed security police. The human rights group Waging Peace said that Christians are

“once more being persecuted by the Khartoum military junta.”

That has to be concerning.

As is often the case, women from religious minorities face a double level of persecution. In August 2022, the police introduced a new “community squad”. Its remit is nearly identical to the remit of al-Bashir’s morality police, which used to patrol the streets, targeting religious minorities and women to enforce how people acted and dressed in public. The community squad has started taking women to court and prosecuting them for violating the dress code or drinking alcohol. That forces Christian women to adopt a disguise in public and prevents the sacrament of holy communion—a basic part of our right to worship and have a religious belief.

Since the introduction of the community squad, its remit seems to have been expanded. Historically, the morality police were confined to what happened in public, but the community squad apparently intervenes in private life. Let me provide some examples. Days after the squad was established, it raided a private house in Khartoum in a high-profile operation and arrested 18 people for allegedly drinking alcohol. People are not free anywhere, even within the walls of their own houses.

Alarmingly, there has been a spike in adultery convictions. In July last year, 20-year-old Maryam Alsyed Tiyrab was arrested and charged with adultery. A state court found her guilty and sentenced her to death by stoning. In another case, a married couple are currently on trial for adultery after the husband, who did not do anything physically wrong, converted to Christianity. The law prohibits a Muslim woman being married to a non-Muslim man. In that case, the adultery did not involve anyone else, but was because the couple had different religions, the husband having left one religion to join another.

This is a time when violence against women and girls has soared. Such violence happens around the world and it depresses me to read stories about it. Since the coup, there has been a climate of impunity for those attacking women and girls, and a prominent message that women should not challenge traditional roles by leaving their homes to go to school or work. Women are second-class citizens.

There has been a resurgence in the use of apostasy laws. Despite the transitional Government having repealed Sudan’s apostasy laws, they are now being used to target Christians who have converted from Islam. For example, in July 2022 police raided a Baptist church in Zalingei, Darfur, and four Christians were detained, all of whom had converted from Islam. I am a Baptist; that is my chosen denomination within my faith. They were beaten by the police and questioned about their faith. All four were charged with apostasy under the penal code article 126, even though that article was abolished by the transitional Government. The police used a law that no longer exists for their own ends. The four people were taken to Zalingei prison and eventually released on bail. While on bail, they faced intimidation from the police and the local community. The Baptist church and the Christian homes in the area have also been attacked and there has been violence against all those people.

Besides increased pressure from the police and armed forces, Christians have seen a huge increase in hostilities from wider society. Under the transitional Government, places of worship received increased protection from the police and the number of attacks decreased, but following the coup that trend has reversed. Since the coup there have been dozens of attacks on churches and Shi’a mosques, and they started just days after the military junta took power. I want to give an idea of the scale of the attacks. I will not give an exhaustive list—far from it; a one-and-a-half hour debate is not enough time to give justice to all the cases—but I will give four or five examples.

The Sudanese Church of Christ in Jabarona was attacked on four separate occasions in the first three months after the coup. Church leaders received threats from extremists living in the area. One threat stated:

“If the government gives you permission to build a church here they better be prepared to collect your dead bodies.”

That was an instant, physical, violent and direct threat.

In Bout, on 28 December 2019, the Sudan Internal Church, the Catholic Church, and the Orthodox Church were all set on fire. They were rebuilt using local materials and on the night of 16 January 2020, some 19 days later, all three were burned down again. The churches reported both attacks, but the police did not investigate or put in place protective measures. Will the Minister take note of this example in particular? It is an example of case in which the police did not act. It is important that the Minister asks questions about that directly to the Sudanese authorities.

On 14 February 2022, a church elder was killed and several religious buildings were destroyed in Aneet market, in Abyei region.

On 10 April 2022, a Church of Christ pastor and members of the congregation were attacked in Gezira state. The church was damaged and Bibles were torn up. The victims attempted to submit a criminal complaint to the police, as we would do in this country, but instead the attacker and the pastor have since been charged with disturbing the peace, even though all they were doing was reporting a crime against their church and people.

On 16 December 2022, a Sudanese Church of Christ church was burned down by a soldier in Doka. Despite the soldier being identified by many witnesses, his connection to the military protected him from prosecution. In this country, if a soldier does something wrong, he does not have protection: if he does wrong, he is held accountable.

We have a clear pattern of behaviour: the rolling back of minority rights by the junta, the withdrawal of police protection, and the return of fundamentalist rhetoric has led to these attacks and others. Attackers are able to act with impunity. The police rarely investigate such attacks, and they intimidate or even arrest the victims. If someone makes a complaint, they are seen almost as a perpetrator by the police, which is one of the issues I want the Minister to address. After the coup, members of the security forces implicated in human rights violations have immunity. It seems that they can do whatever they want—a situation that must end. Those who carry out crimes in uniform or on behalf of the junta must be held to account.

In addition to the pressures from the security forces, Christians are facing increased pressure from other groups in society. This has led to an increase in killings and attacks on religious and ethnic minority villages. Gill Lusk from the Sudan Studies Society says that

“at local level, tribes identifying as Arab and Muslim are incited to take land from groups they see as black and/or Christian.”

In other words, if you are a Christian or an ethnic minority, what you have is not yours and they can take it. That cannot be allowed.

Groups that held power under al-Bashir’s regime have been emboldened to seize land from religious and ethnic minorities. More than 900 people have been killed in these land seizures, echoing the conditions that led to the Darfur genocide some 20 years ago. It is worth noting that the attacks on freedom of religion or belief are part of the wider context of human rights abuses in Sudan. Since the coup, the rights to freedom of expression and freedom of peaceful assembly and association have been severely restricted by the junta. There has been reports of numerous violations of human rights on a massive scale, including arbitrary detention, torture and extrajudicial killings. Although the state of emergency was lifted in May 2022, these abuses continue.

The Sudanese Government have also been implicated in the ongoing conflict in the Darfur region, which has resulted in the displacement of millions of people and hundreds of thousands of deaths. Again, this is on a scale that is hard to talk about, and it is hard to visualise it as well. Recent protests have seen the deaths of 99 people and left more than 5,000 injured. The security forces have switched to using live bullets and driving their armoured vehicles at speed into crowds of demonstrators. Following the end of a protest, the security forces have taken to raiding nearby hospitals—again, clear criminal acts—and to using teargas and grenades to hunt down injured protesters. This has resulted in the deaths of patients who were not involved in protests, and of at least two doctors in those hospitals. The Guardian reports that patients had to hide under beds as security forces raided the hospitals.

Despite all this Sudan was, as the hon. Member for Rutherglen and Hamilton West (Margaret Ferrier) said, re-elected to the UN Human Rights Council last October. We should not put a country into that group if it is responsible for a genocide, a murder campaign, and discrimination and human rights abuses against religious minorities. The Minister of State, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office, the right hon. Member for Sutton Coldfield (Mr Mitchell) said that he hopes Sudan will use its presence

“as an opportunity to demonstrate to the international community its commitment to international human rights law and to bringing those responsible for human rights violations to justice.”

It will be some time before they do that, because Sudan’s representatives are giving their own people, their own junta, their own military and their own Government officials the right to carry out abuses. Does the Minister think that Sudan has demonstrated its commitment to international human rights law during its tenure on the UNHRC? In other words, why was Sudan ever put on the UNHRC?

Exacerbating all this is the fact that Sudan is in the midst of a humanitarian crisis fuelled by conflict, floods, food shortages, epidemics and the collapse of the economy following the coup. The British ambassador to Sudan, Giles Lever, recently told parliamentarians that 15.8 million people—one third of the population—will need humanitarian assistance this year. He described insufficient supplies of bread and wheat and how what was available was priced out of the range of the majority of the population.

I put on record my thanks to our Government, the Minister and officials. The UK Government stated that UK aid will not inadvertently exclude religious minority communities who are often unable to access distribution points. Will the Minister tell me of any specific steps taken in Sudan to mitigate against that? The reports that we are getting back indicate that religious minorities are not getting the UK aid that they should. I know that is never the intention of the Government, but if we give it we must make sure that it is conditional and minority groups get it.

The situation for religious minorities in Sudan is part of a broader human rights crisis in the country. The conditions in parts of Sudan are worryingly similar to those that preceded the genocide in Darfur. It is hard to believe that anyone could hate anybody so much. The International Development Committee’s report “From Srebrenica to a safer tomorrow”, the Truro review and the genocide convention all highlight the need to prevent mass atrocities and genocide when there are credible warning signs. Does the Minister agree that what we see in Sudan could be a warning sign of future atrocities? If so, will the UK and our Minister raise the issue at the UN, through our membership of the Human Rights Council and the Security Council?

Will the Minister tell me whether the Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office has undertaken a joint analysis of conflict and stability assessment of the situation in Sudan? If so, can that be made available in the Library for everyone present and for those who wish to know more? What is the Government’s view of the legitimacy of Sudan’s membership of the UN Human Rights Council, given current abuses? How can any country be a part of that if they are carrying out abuse? What practical steps has the FCDO taken to ensure that minority communities have fair access to humanitarian aid in Sudan?

Does the Minister agree that there is a similarity with the conditions that preceded the genocide in Darfur? If we look at what is happening now, we cannot but see the similarities, so we need to do something now to make sure it does not get to that stage. Will the UK raise the issue at the UN Security Council and Human Rights Council? When will a JACS assessment on Sudan be completed and made available for Members?

I thank the Backbench Business Committee for allowing this debate. We are here to represent people who have nobody to speak for them. Westminster Hall debates give us that opportunity and the chance to speak for our brothers, sisters and Christians around the world, and also for the Shi’as and other ethnic minorities, including the Jews and the Baha’is, and for many others who try to keep their heads down, but there is a concerted and planned strategy by the Sudanese Government against them. This debate gives us a chance to highlight that and to ask our Minister and our Government, who are extremely responsive, to ensure that UK aid gets to the people it needs to get to.

Cystic Fibrosis: Living Costs

Debate between Margaret Ferrier and Jim Shannon

Thursday 2nd February 2023 Westminster Hall

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

I beg to move,

That this House has considered the impact of cystic fibrosis on living costs.

It is a real pleasure to be here in Westminster Hall—a bit breathless, but we are here. This is a massive subject, and I am very pleased that many colleagues have been able to attend in support. Looking around the room, I see many Members who have personal stories to tell; they will do so, and their stories will reinforce the questions that we all wish to ask the Minister. I am very pleased to see the Minister in her place, as well as the shadow Minister, the hon. Member for Denton and Reddish (Andrew Gwynne). He and I seem to be in many debates together; indeed, we are a bit of a tag team. It is also a pleasure to serve under your chairship, Ms Harris.

I am the DUP spokesperson for health, so I am pleased to be able to highlight the struggles of those with cystic fibrosis and other lung conditions who have been affected by the spiralling cost of living. As the Minister knows, I will make a number of asks of her in my speech. Most Members will be aware that cystic fibrosis is a progressive, life-limiting genetic condition that primarily affects the lungs and the digestive system. The condition is due to inheriting a faulty gene from both parents that causes the lungs and the digestive system to become clogged with mucus, making it hard to breathe and to digest food—that is the graphic way of explaining what it means. It is common for those with CF to also have CF-related diabetes; I did not know that until I read the research, but I was aware that other effects include osteoporosis and being malnourished. Some 80% of people with CF are pancreatic insufficient, and therefore need a higher calorie intake to maintain a healthy weight.

Roughly 11,000 people in the UK have CF: 9,000 here on the mainland in England, 1,000 in Scotland, 500 in Wales and 500 in Northern Ireland. In 2021, the median age of people with CF who died was 38. Wow—this disease really puts life into perspective. People with CF are particularly susceptible to lung infections, and therefore cannot meet each other face to face due to the risk of cross-infection. Again, the life of someone with CF is really restricted, and is much more difficult.

That brings us to the crux of the issue: living with CF demands an incredibly high burden of treatment, taking at least two to five hours and up to 70 pills each day. People with CF have higher food bills because they need a higher calorie intake to maintain a healthy weight, and higher energy bills because they need to keep their homes warm to stave off lung infections and they may need to power an additional fridge to store sterile medications or essential medical devices such as ventilators. Life as a person with CF is so different from everybody else’s life.

People with CF living in England must pay for their NHS prescriptions, unless they are exempt. Those with CF living in England and, at least until 2024, in Northern Ireland also have to pay hospital car parking charges. The Cystic Fibrosis Trust, in conjunction with Bristol University, commissioned a report entitled “The Financial Costs of Cystic Fibrosis”. I urge the Minister to take time to process that report; if she has already done so, we thank her for that. It will give her a good perspective on my speech, and perhaps on other Members’ speeches as well.

[Margaret Ferrier (Rutherglen and Hamilton West) (Ind)]

I congratulate the hon. Gentleman on securing another debate in Westminster Hall—he is very successful at doing so, and I thank him very much. According to research, an adult with cystic fibrosis will, on average, incur an additional £209 per month in living costs, while a parent carer of a child with the condition will incur an additional £291. Very few people on an average income have that kind of money to spare. Does the hon. Gentleman agree that dropping prescription charges for people with cystic fibrosis, as has been done in Scotland, would be one way of easing the burden on families?

[Jim Shannon]

I thank the hon. Lady for her intervention, and I agree with her. In Northern Ireland, there are no prescription charges—there is no cost—which I believe makes a difference. That is one of my asks of the Minister; there are a lot of asks, most of which are financial, but they are very important.

To follow on from the hon. Lady’s intervention, the report also revealed that the additional cost of living due to cystic fibrosis is over £6,500 per annum. The financial burden is made up of both extra spending to keep well and the loss of income. The key findings indicate:

“Families with CF are more likely to be struggling with their finances than the public—24% of adults with CF and 35% of parents of children with CF described meeting their bills each month as a ‘constant struggle’”—

life is really hard for people with CF—

“compared to 17% of UK households overall.”

The findings continue:

“Food and rising energy bills were the biggest financial concern for people with CF and their families—both are essential to the health and quality of life of people with CF.

For the average family the combined impact of extra spending”

includes “heating, expensive dietary needs” and “attending medical appointments”—the local hospital is not always where they go to meet a consultant or specialist—and “home medical equipment”. Life for a CF patient in their home is almost like being in a hospital.

There is also the loss of income: treatment takes two to five hours every day, which means that they cannot keep down a full-time job; indeed, it would be difficult to keep down a part-time job. The extra spending and loss of income means

“they are thousands of pounds worse off than comparable families.”

The findings continue:

“Three-in-five (59%) of adults with CF had also incurred some form of income loss as a result of their condition in the last two years—for example, reducing working hours, taking unpaid leave to attend appointments or leaving work altogether”,

as many have to.

The Cystic Fibrosis Trust has seen a significant increase in the support needed, with 72%—a big figure—of helpline inquiries since October 2022 relating to financial support. Between October and December 2022, it provided cost of living fund grants to hundreds of households and increased its grants for essential household appliances and white goods. The figures are real—they are quite detrimental and very hard to comprehend.

According to the Marmot review of health inequalities,

“Those living in the poorest neighbourhoods are twice as likely to develop a lung condition, and seven times as likely to die from one than those in the richest areas.”

We have seen the pressures on those with CF, but those pressures are even greater if they live in households where money is tight, where they cannot keep a wage and where they are probably more dependent on benefits. I will talk about that in my requests to the Minister. I know that benefit payments are not the Minister’s responsibility, but they are one of the issues that come off the back of this debate.

Because poorer communities are disproportionately impacted by the cost of living crisis, many of those living with a lung condition are more likely to be struggling from the outset. Asthma and Lung UK found that almost two thirds—63%—of those surveyed with a lung condition are

“buying and eating less food.”

That is when they need food more, need the right food and need it in the right quantity. Eating less food can lower immunity and increase the risk of

“viruses that are the top trigger of asthma attacks”.

It is clear that those who suffer from cystic fibrosis, or from other lung conditions, are in grave need of help. That is my ask of the Minister today. Some of the issues will take cross-Department co-operation, but I believe the Minister is best placed to take them forward. The collective asks that I and others in this debate have are so important.

I should have said at the beginning—I apologise for not doing so—that I thank the Backbench Business Committee for agreeing to the debate. The Committee is very good when we propose debates to it, and it granted this one without any thought whatsoever. We also hoped to have the debate at this time, because it ties in nicely. There are people in the Gallery who have helped me, and probably others in this room, to prepare our contributions for today.

Ask number two, which I have raised before but will raise again, is that benefits must continue to rise in line with inflation. Some 83% of parents of children with CF are receiving one or more type of benefit, and 68% of adults with CF are claiming at least one form of benefit, according to the new report. The Office for Budget Responsibility forecasts that consumer prices index inflation for 2023 will be 7.4%. Those are the figures. If the Government—I always say these things respectfully and they are not meant critically, which is not my form, but I ask them because they need to be said—do not continue to increase benefits in line with inflation, not only those with CF but all the poorest will suffer a detrimental blow.

[Margaret Ferrier]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for giving way again; he is being very generous. Research conducted by the University of Bristol found that a surprising number of cystic fibrosis patients had applications for personal independence payment or disability living allowance rejected, and others did not apply because they did not know what support might be available. Does he have any thoughts about how the DWP could improve awareness of the condition and ensure people are getting the right support?

[Jim Shannon]

It is almost like the hon. Lady read my next point. That is one of the focuses of my request. It is my next sentence, would you believe?

We must remove unnecessary PIP reassessments for people with long-term conditions such as CF. There has to be an understanding of what CF is and how it affects people. There has to be an understanding that their lives are not like anybody else’s lives. I said earlier that the median lifespan for people with CF in the last year was 38 years. It is sad to say this, but it is a life-limiting condition.

There is a requirement for claimants to report any change in health to the Department for Work and Pensions—wow! It would be great if every person with cystic fibrosis could say, “I tell you what, I’m better today. I won’t need those 70 pills and the medication for the next wee while.” That does not happen. It would be a miracle. I believe in miracles—you know I do, Ms Harris—but they do not happen every day. The fact is that people sometimes have a sickness or a disability—this is one of them—that means they need help. I have always been a great believer that society is marked by how it helps those who need help, and that is what we need to do.

These people have a progressive lifelong condition and their health is unlikely to improve, but there is the threat of constant reassessment—my goodness, reassessment again. We know the condition is life-changing and life-limiting, and that they probably need a transplant. The hon. Member for Bristol East (Kerry McCarthy) is always here in these debates. I welcome her to her place—not that it is my job to welcome people to Westminster Hall, but I like to see her because I know she makes very helpful contributions. The reassessments provoke anxiety and are costly and unnecessary. Streamlining the assessment system would mean that those with progressive, long-term conditions such as CF do not have to undertake reassessments. That would not only remove the anxiety but provide cost savings to the DWP. We do not need to do those reassessments because it is a life-limiting disease.

I feel very frustrated—I am sure others do too—when people with life-limiting diseases have to go through reassessments for employment and support allowance, PIP or DLA. It is absolutely unbelievable that that should happen.

High Income Child Benefit Charge

Debate between Margaret Ferrier and Jim Shannon

Thursday 2nd February 2023 Westminster Hall

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

I congratulate the hon. Member for Linlithgow and East Falkirk (Martyn Day) on raising the issue here today. I try to come to Westminster Hall as often as I can, but when I saw the subject of the debate I was very keen to come along and support the hon. Gentleman. I congratulate him on setting the scene so well.

I want to specifically focus on the child benefit threshold. As the hon. Gentleman mentioned, one person could earn £52,000 and their partner could earn £10,000, and they would be disadvantaged. However, partners who both earn £49,000 do not have the same issue. That is an anomaly that we have to try to address.

My party discussed this issue at our parliamentary meeting last Tuesday. We have a slot to move a ten-minute rule motion, and we are minded to bring forward this matter when the time comes. I have raised the issue in the Chamber on numerous occasions, as has my right hon. Friend the Member for East Antrim (Sammy Wilson).

I am pleased to see the Minister in her place—I always am, by the way. I know she always tries to give us a response that helps with where we are, so I await her response with anticipation—no pressure, Minister. We are pleased to see her here and we look forward to her contribution.

The cost of living crisis has had a detrimental impact on people’s finances across the whole of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. I have spoken in countless debates on this issue. Those who are struggling the most—working families—are among those who cannot make ends meet.

Child benefit is a great benefit. It was designed to be a helping hand, but instead the concept has become a hindrance for working-class families, and even some who were previously considered to be working class and are trying their best to provide their children with all they can. I am a grandparent now, but when we were endeavouring as parents, we tried to give our children as much as we could, as every parent would. That was not to spoil them, but to give them the opportunities that we perhaps did not have when we were younger.

[Margaret Ferrier]

The hon. Gentleman mentioned the cost of living crisis. The fact that the charge is not uprated in line with inflation means that thousands of liable families are losing part of the child benefit that they are entitled to. Does he agree that this must be swiftly addressed?

[Jim Shannon]

I thank the hon. Lady for her intervention; yes, I do agree. Later in my contribution I will ask for the very same thing, because I think it is important that we do so.

We were hoping to present a ten-minute rule motion on this issue in the near future. Our slot is probably in July of this year. I and my party feel that it is grossly unfair that the child benefit cap has remained the same for 10 years, while the price of bread has risen by 30% in Northern Ireland in this year alone. The cost of the diesel needed for people to get to work is up by 30p a litre from 2013, or 20%, while those who invested in electric cars have seen the price of electricity consumption increase from an average of £577 in 2013, with a current price cap of £2,500. Increases are not limited to those essentials. The Government’s retaining of the cap is nothing more than another squeeze of the middle class through taxes. The real burden falls on the middle class, and I, my party and others will do all we can to battle that.

I am pleased to see the shadow Minister, the hon. Member for Hampstead and Kilburn (Tulip Siddiq), in her place, and I look forward to her contribution. No doubt she and others will be saying the same thing.

I am attempting to bring about a change that I encourage the Government to consider. I find it extremely unfair that two parents could be on £49,000 a year and receive child benefit, but one parent can be on £10,000 and the other on £52,000 and they must pay an additional tax charge as a result. That anomaly is critical. A family on £98,000 are okay, but a family on £62,000 are not because one parent earns over the £49,000 or £49,500.

Another issue is that working families feel unable to take a pay rise because they would lose their child benefit and be worse off. I know families who were offered a wage increase from £49,500 and said, “Actually, I’m going be worse off,” and did not take it, so it is a fact of life for many.

A conversation took place in my office just last week on this subject. I always like to put the issues that we debate to my staff members, who give me their perspective. When we discussed it, they said that £50,000 sounded like a very decent yearly income, and it is, but when the cost of living is taken into consideration, these statistics are nowhere near as realistic as they seem. In addition, the high income child benefit charge is collected completely though a self-assessment, whereby individuals who are liable to pay it are required to find an annual tax return and, if they do not do so, they may be charged legal penalties for failing to register their liability and to pay their charge through their tax return, as some 180,000 families have had to do.

It has got to the stage where even families who are entitled to child support are opting out for fear that they will be hit with tax returns that they should have done but perhaps were unaware of. For my generation and the one after that, that was not a problem; we went to work, we received our child benefit, whatever it was, and we were thankful for it. There has been no uplift to the individual salary allowance since 2013—that is 10 years. There has been uncontrollable inflation since 2013, but no uplift for parents.

The Child Poverty Action Group has been in touch with my office, stating that benefit freezes and sub-inflationary upratings mean that child benefit has lost 30% of its value since 2010. One way that can be fixed is for the Government to increase child benefit by just £20 a week per child. That would pull half a million children out of poverty—the very issue that the hon. Member for Rutherglen and Hamilton West (Margaret Ferrier) referred to.

I said earlier that more families are choosing to opt out of child benefits due to the tax self-assessment that must be done. Covid also played a part in the reduction in the number of people applying for child benefit, mainly because parents were unable to register new births due to lockdown and there was reduced contact between parents and health visitors. Now that we are more or less out of that era, efforts should be made to reverse that trend.

Many Members, and more importantly many of our constituents, have raised issues about child benefits. No parent should have to sacrifice good work or a pay rise to get the full amount. That is ludicrous. No parent should have to get an accountant to fill in a separate tax return if they earn over £50,000. We must do more to support those parents through child benefits. More importantly, we must ensure that children are protected and that poverty statistics are dealt with. This has become a critical issue in my office, which is why my party is considering introducing a ten-minute rule Bill on it in July. I am sure the hon. Member for Linlithgow and East Falkirk will be one of the signatories when the time comes. We are asking the Minister for some more compassion, understanding and sympathy, given that the process denies some people what they should have by right.

Afghan Citizens Resettlement Scheme: Pathway 3

Debate between Margaret Ferrier and Jim Shannon

Thursday 19th January 2023 Westminster Hall

[Margaret Ferrier (Rutherglen and Hamilton West) (Ind)]

A case that I have raised in this House many times has been with my office from August last year when troops were withdrawn, and still there is no end in sight. My constituent’s young wife, the daughter of an allied forces translator, was not deemed to be eligible for any pathway scheme and is now waiting for approval on a spousal visa. Does the hon. Member agree that still, a year and a half on, the policy for Afghan citizens remains too opaque and difficult to navigate?

[Jim Shannon]

I certainly do. I am sure that when the Minister responds, such questions will be fully answered. The hon. Lady is absolutely right to raise that issue.

We all know what happened when the rapid Taliban advance in 2021 culminated in the fall of Kabul and Operation Pitting. We also know that as these events unfolded, the UK Government implemented the Afghan relocations and assistance policy and, exactly one year ago, the Afghan citizens relocation scheme. This debate serves as a moment to look back on the last year and assess, as the hon. Lady said, how far we have moved on that; many of us feel that we have not moved.

The ACRS has three pathways. The first is for people who have already been airlifted out of Afghanistan—there were some of those—and now need help settling in the UK. The second is for those who have already escaped to a third country, such as Pakistan, and are in the hands of the UNHCR. The third is the one that probably reflects our British values the most. It is no secret that I am very proud to be British. I look upon this great nation as a nation that delivers on its compassion and understanding, and therefore I want this scheme to be implemented in its totality. The hon. Member for Basildon and Billericay, who will follow me, will confirm that as well. We have a real problem. For those who have been identified as belonging to a particularly vulnerable group, two issues emerge in relation to pathway 3 time and time again. The first is a lack of clarity, and the second is a lack of urgency. Where is it? I cannot see it at all.

When the scheme was launched, a core component of pathway 3 was the focus on providing safe asylum routes to help members of minorities who were specifically identified as being at the most risk under Taliban rule, and I give the hon. Member for Basildon and Billericay lots of credit for consistently speaking in defence of the scheme. The three groups identified were religious minorities, members of the LGBT community and pro-democracy activists. All three groups were deemed to be under a high risk of a violent attack but had been excluded from the ARAP scheme.

Even at the outset of ACRS, there was confusion about when people could expect to start receiving help. The scheme launched with the intended aim of resettling 20,000 people in five years. However, Afghans were only allowed to register an expression of interest seven months after the scheme formally opened. In the short time that that window was open, over 11,400 expressions of interest were submitted under pathway 3. The vast majority of those who expressed an interest had to wait, even though their lives were in danger. I have the utmost respect for the Minister, but that is why we are so frustrated about where we are.

The hon. Member for Basildon and Billericay is likely to go into greater depth on this issue, and I want to give him lots of time to put forward his understanding of where the scheme is and where it is going. Last Wednesday, he led a Westminster Hall debate on British Council contractors who are eligible for pathway 3. Indeed, at the opening of the scheme, the hon. Member for Louth and Horncastle (Victoria Atkins) stated that, alongside GardaWorld contractors and Chevening alumni, they would be the priority group for 2022. Some 200 teachers, security guards and frontline staff were to be offered a safe haven in the UK alongside family members. These people represented those who worked on the frontline, who were recruited to teach British values across Afghanistan. They were people who we—this country and the United Kingdom Government—left behind, and it is clear that we owe a duty to them. As such, I was delighted to hear the Minister confirm during last week’s debate that half the contractors have had their applications granted. Maybe I will leave that point to the hon. Member for Basildon and Billericay.

Lifeboat Services: Search and Rescue

Debate between Margaret Ferrier and Jim Shannon

Tuesday 10th January 2023 Westminster Hall

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

Thank you, Mr Davies, for chairing the debate and for giving me a chance to participate. I thank the hon. Member for Torbay (Kevin Foster) for setting the scene so well, and hon. Members for contributing to the debate.

Lifeboats and their services are imperative for safety in coastal communities, which is the key issue for me. The hon. Member for Torbay represents a coastal area that is similar to my constituency of Strangford, and we follow each other in debates more often than not—either him before me or me before him. The neighbouring constituency of North Down also has coastal areas with lifeboats, and people rely on the local stations.

It is great to be here to give them the praise they truly deserve and to thank them for their work and efforts.

Thousands of people along the coastline of Northern Ireland depend on the services of the RNLI for their protection and safety. During the summer, thousands of families and young people partake in coastal sports such as sailing, surfing and pier jumping. I used to do that myself off Ballywalter harbour, although that is not a very wise thing to do—always ensure the tide is in or there is big trouble. In addition, people go out in canoes and boats to fish, including from the fishing village of Portavogie. There are caravan parks at Millisle and my home village of Ballywalter, where I was brought up. They lie very close to where I live on the edge of Strangford lough. I am aware of the sheer number of water sports undertaken in this area.

The RNLI charity provides a 24-hour search and rescue service around the United Kingdom and Republic of Ireland. Across the entire UK, there are 238 lifeboat stations, 46 of them in Northern Ireland. There are also 240 lifeguard units on beaches, which gives an idea of the magnitude of the issue. I found this figure incredible: since the RNLI was founded in 1824, its lifeboat crews have saved more than 142,700 lives. That is an enormous figure.

We are fortunate to have a lifeboat station in Portaferry in my constituency, and I visited the station just before the summer. Portaferry is one of seven RNLI lifeboat stations operating a lifeboat funded by viewers of the BBC TV programme “Blue Peter”. Some of us can cast our minds back to that, although others cannot go back that far. The station was established due to increased pleasure boating in Strangford lough, after Cloughey lifeboat station closed. Most recently, in November, the Portaferry lifeboat station came to the aid of two kayakers who got into difficulty near St Patrick’s rock in Strangford lough, and who faced weather conditions of wind force 8 to 10. Since the station opened in 1980, there have been 850 launches, rescuing 600 people and saving the lives of 100 people. That is just my lifeboat station in Portaferry. Thank you to all lifeboat crews, past and present, for their commitment.

Last year, I attended the parliamentary launch of the National Independent Lifeboat Association. I think the hon. Member for Torbay sponsored that event. It is important to pay thanks to those independent lifeguards and life-saving organisations who risk their lives in dangerous seas to help save others.

[Margaret Ferrier (Rutherglen and Hamilton West) (Ind)]

Does the hon. Gentleman, like me, welcome the representation provided by the National Independent Lifeboat Association for smaller lifeboat operators, which might otherwise be overlooked?

[Jim Shannon]

I certainly do. We have all said how much we appreciate that. The hon. Member for Torbay said that in his introduction. My hon. Friend the Member for East Londonderry (Mr Campbell) will recognise the independent ones in his contribution. I am thinking of the Foyle rescue team, about which we have spoken. We understand the commitment that those volunteers give. When I visited Portaferry before the summer, I was greatly impressed by their commitment and by the fact that they were there every time they were needed.

There are 46 independent lifeboat organisations that operate along the coastline and on inland waterways across England, Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland. Those independent lifeboats are run primarily, if not entirely, by volunteers, and funded by local donations. The invaluable service they provide has saved the lives of so many and, in conjunction with the RNLI, they continue with those dedicated efforts day in and day out to save people. They are an asset to our communities. We would be completely lost without them, and many lives would sadly be lost as well. I am not the only who was moved by adverts on TV for RNLI showing a lady leave her house over Christmas to go and save people. We see how important these crews are when we recognise what they do.

To conclude, there are many ways in which we can support institutions such as the RNLI. It is possible to become a volunteer or a member, and even train to become assistance personnel. There are many things that people can do, including fundraising and donating money to ensure the RNLI staff have the best equipment available to fulfil their duties and be able to perform with the correct number of staff.

I sincerely thank the RNLI Portaferry team for all their dedication and work in my constituency. I also thank the lifeboat teams across Northern Ireland and the whole of the UK for the work they do, as our coastal communities would literally be lost without them. I live in a coastal community and understand what it means to have the RNLI, and I thank them very much.

Family Businesses: Contribution to Local Communities

Debate between Margaret Ferrier and Jim Shannon

Tuesday 20th December 2022 Westminster Hall

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

It is a real pleasure to speak in the debate because I obviously have a particular interest. I commend the hon. Member for Carlisle (John Stevenson) for leading the debate so knowledgeably and for setting the scene so well. What a pleasure it is to follow my friend and colleague, the hon. Member for Torbay (Kevin Foster). The tag team is back together—I follow him or he follows me—and I thank the hon. Gentleman for his contribution. Unashamedly, I will tell hon. Members about some of the small businesses in my area—not all of them, because that would take me an hour and a half and, Mr Robertson, you would say, “Sit down.” I will pick out some of the smaller ones that I have known over the years. There are many.

As we approach Christmas, it is important to recognise the important role that local businesses play in our economy, including the family-run businesses that have served our local towns and villages—in some cases, for decades. I do not intend to wax lyrical about how great a place Strangford is—everybody already knows that—but I am more than happy to encourage everyone to make a journey to Strangford at some time in the future, as many in this House have done, including Ministers and other hon. Members, who have enjoyed it. At this time of year, we must take time to reflect and acknowledge that businesses are the backbone of our constituencies—they certainly are for mine. Some 99% of businesses in my constituency are small and medium-sized enterprises, and the pattern is similar across the whole of Northern Ireland.

There are many benefits that come along with family-run businesses and ultimately contribute to their long line of success, and there are so many success stories that I want to mention. The right hon. Member for Aldridge-Brownhills (Wendy Morton), who will follow this speech, and I have been working together, and she and I were just saying how we will unashamedly tell everyone in this House about our small businesses. I look forward to what she is going to tell us in a few minutes as she namechecks every one of those businesses, and I will probably do the same.

Strong commitment and common values are some of the successes of small businesses. When an enterprise is built on familial lines, people are more likely to put in extra hours and go the extra mile to ensure success, and the stability of the family structure has been pivotal for long-term family professions. One that always sticks in my mind is N.G. Bell & Son. I am probably the only person present who knows about N.G. Bell & Son, but I will share its success story. It is a family-run business specialising in timber, building, electrical and plumbing supplies, and it has become one of Northern Ireland’s leading building merchants. Norman and Elsie Bell came to Ballywalter from west Ulster in 1950 and bought an existing grocery and hardware business. On the untimely death of Norman Bell in 1973, his son Graham took over the running of the business at the early age of 19. He and the family have built the business, making it a complete success, and their business park in Greyabbey Road is at the centre of that.

The story of N.G. Bell & Son in Ballywalter resonates with me, because my own parents ran a shop in the same village from ’59 to ’79, and many of the relationships I built through the shop as a child remain strong to this day. I am minded that Margaret Thatcher, who was the daughter of a shopkeeper, said we were a nation of shopkeepers. I am pleased to be the son of a shopkeeper, and I am also proud of my roots. I understand at first hand how central the local shop can be to community life. My mum and dad owned a shop in Clady, south of Strabane. They also owned one in Ardstraw, and then they moved to Ballywalter in 1959. They owned the first V G Store, which was part of a chain of shops that are now run by the SPAR group and owned by the Henderson Group in Northern Ireland. It is an example of how a local business has grown—again, it is good news.

I am sure that I have mentioned before the importance of family businesses to our high streets. Newtownards is one of the main towns in the Strangford constituency and has many great businesses, most notably Wardens of Newtownards, which has been a presence in the town’s high street since 1910. In 2002, Wardens celebrated its 125th anniversary. As part of the celebrations, the store ran a competition to find the oldest receipt from the shop. A local farmer came forward with a receipt dating back to 1890s—not the 1690s, Mr Robertson, but the 1890s—which is just astonishing. There are still family members who work there today, and hopefully they will do so for many generations to come. For anyone who is curious—many are—Wardens has also had videos go viral on TikTok. I am told that the store has an account—I do not know how to use one—that has gained over 180,000 followers and millions of views. Again, it gives an indication of what a small, family-run store in Newtownards can do when it comes to promoting itself.

H & J Carnduff butchers in the square in Newtownards employs 55 people and is a local business that has done extremely well. It farms its butchery business out to other shops across the whole district.

[Margaret Ferrier]

Cafés are important businesses for local communities. To name a few in my constituency, we have the Tea Bay, Stacks, Niu Cafe, Vin 18 and Café Gelato, and they provide a place for people to meet, chat and come in out of the cold. Does the hon. Member agree that small, family-run cafés are often the highlight of local towns in providing that atmosphere?

[Jim Shannon]

I certainly do. Again, the hon. Lady says many things in her interventions that I absolutely subscribe to, and I thank her for that. The Regency is such an example of where people come together. I have a fry there every Saturday morning—it is my wee treat for the week as a diabetic as I try to be careful about my eating. Corries meats in Newtownards town is a family business that has grown to own a chain of half a dozen shops, and Knotts Bakery is another family business in the town.

The people of Strangford love a bargain—who doesn’t? My mother is a 91-year-old who loves going shopping and always wants to tell me about the bargains she has got. One place where bargains are guaranteed is Cotters, which is a family-run business that has been in the town for 20 years. My two youngest staff members have what they call their monthly “Cotters haul” where they get new cleaning supplies, bits and bobs for the office and, most importantly for two young girls, crisps because they are always a special price in Cotters—that is probably the attraction.

Loyalty and stability are two qualities of successful family businesses. That success allows for “beanstalk” family businesses where often four generations of a family have been involved. The hon. Member for Torbay referred to such a company in his constituency. The director of SME business at Ulster University has indicated that 74% of Northern Ireland companies are classed as family-run, which is amazing in being unique and serving the Northern Ireland economy in a different way.

The hon. Member for Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross (Jamie Stone) referred to bank managers. I have a story about a bank manager, although I am not sure I have the time to tell it as I am conscious that the right hon. Member for Aldridge-Brownhills (Wendy Morton) is following me. When I visited my bank manager for a loan when I was much younger, the discussion we had was not the same that people would have with their bank manager today. I told him I would pay the loan back as quickly as I could, and I paid it back in one year. That probably meant a lot of scrimping and saving, but I did it. Those were things that would not be done with a bank manager today because of the rules.

When I think of Warren Patton of Patton’s Bakery in Newtownards, which is a family-run business that I have known for nearly all its days, his sense of community spirit is so evident in his charitable donations and discounts for fundraising community events, and that deserves recognition. He employs some 76 people in his business. It is often much easier to get a donation for the local fair from the local bakery than the large supermarkets, and that is another reason why local businesses are a vital cog in the community machine. Warren Patton is fully immersed in everything in Newtownards. He is community-minded. He is the chair of the Ards football club. We are all keen to see them get their new ground, which is at an advanced stage. The land has been identified, the agreement has been done and now we are pushing for some grants to make it all happen. He is also in the Loyal Orders—the Orange Order and the Royal Black Preceptory, which I am in in Newtownards. Those organisations are part of the culture and history of our town. I say that because Warren Patton is one of those local success stories. That business started from nothing and he has it today.

The support provided by the public to keep these enterprises open is incredibly important, and we do our best to help and support all the businesses that make our economy what it is today. The former Minister—the hon. Member for Rochester and Strood (Kelly Tolhurst)—came to visit the high street in Newtownards. She enjoyed her time there, but more importantly she was able to engage with local businesses in a constructive and helpful way. Newtownards has won the best town centre in the whole of Northern Ireland in the past and was featured heavily last time as well. I say this without fear of being quoted wrong: Newtownards truly is the best trading town for businesses, opportunity, variety and family-owned businesses. Looking at the special nature of family-run businesses and their contributions to my constituency, I can only say to people: if you have any time before Christmas, come shopping in Newtownards in Strangford.

International Human Rights Day

Debate between Margaret Ferrier and Jim Shannon

Thursday 8th December 2022 Westminster Hall

[Margaret Ferrier]

I could not have put it better. The hon. Gentleman makes an excellent point. We should not allow Governments other than the UK Government to say what the right response is. I thank him for the intervention.

Over 50% of those executed were convicted on the basis of their participation in pro-democracy demonstrations back in March. As executions are confirmed only once the death sentence has been carried out, we do not know how many people are on death row in Saudi Arabia. That is also the case in China, North Korea, Vietnam, Egypt and Iran. I will speak about the latter two shortly.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

I understand that between 500 and 600 people have been executed in Iran in the past year, so if there is a country that is top of the league, and really has to be brought to book, Iran is that country.

[Margaret Ferrier]

I will come on to speak about Iran; the figures that we hear are shocking.

I say this to the Saudi regime: the world is watching, and will continue to call it out on these executions, particularly when the offences are considered not to be the most serious, or are non-violent or involve juveniles, and when the sentence follows a manifestly unfair prosecution. This is, of course, a violation of the most fundamental right: the right to life.

That brings me to the Saudi criminal justice system, which remains opaque. We know that international fair trial standards are not generally upheld there, and there are credible allegations that some of the accused are tortured to make them sign confessions. Of course, we must not forget the brutal and brazen killing of journalist Jamal Khashoggi inside the Saudi consulate in Istanbul in 2018, which US intelligence concluded, with a medium to high degree of certainty, had been carried out on the orders of Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman. I truly hope that one day, there will be real accountability for that heinous murder.

Lastly on Saudi Arabia, I highlight the case of imprisoned human rights defender Mohammed al-Qahtani, who is reportedly being kept incommunicado after his family filed a complaint about attacks on him by inmates. Al-Qahtani is a founding member of the Saudi Civil and Political Rights Association, which was dissolved in 2013. That year, he was sentenced to 10 years in prison for allegedly providing false information to outside sources, including UN human rights mechanisms.

Like Saudi Arabia, Iran continues to be one of the world’s leading implementers of the death penalty, as we heard from the hon. Member for Strangford (Jim Shannon). The death penalty is used for such acts as insulting the Prophet, apostasy, same-sex relations, adultery, drinking alcohol and certain non-violent drug-related offences, although some drug-related offences are now meant to be exempt. Iranian courts, particularly revolutionary courts, regularly fall far short of providing fair trials, and use confessions likely obtained under torture as evidence in court.

I am sure other colleagues will speak to my next point, so I will limit my remarks about the widespread protests in Iran, following the death in September of Jina Mahsa Amini in detention. She was arrested by Iran’s so-called morality police for not wearing her hijab properly. The UN High Commissioner for Human Rights highlighted that Iranian security forces,

“notably the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps and Basij forces have used live ammunition, birdshot and other metal pellets, teargas and batons”

against protesters. An estimated 300 people were killed and 15,000 arrested.

Turning to human rights defenders at risk, imprisoned human rights defender Arash Sadeghi has been jailed on multiple occasions for his activities in defence of human rights, and was arrested again on 20 October 2022 for unknown reasons. He has been placed in indefinite detention, and his health is deteriorating. I echo the calls for his immediate release. One of the cases featured in Amnesty International’s “Write for Rights” 2022 campaign is that of Vahid Afkari, who remains in solitary confinement following unsafe and highly questionable convictions. His brother Navid was sentenced to death on similar charges and secretly executed in September 2020, sparking international outrage.

I will continue with this focus on the middle east, but move on to Bahrain. In common with many others, I remain open to constructive engagement with the relevant Bahraini authorities and those in Bahraini civil society, who work under very difficult conditions. However, I am worried that in the longer term, the country’s stability will be undermined by increasing polarisation, due at least in part to multiple allegations of human rights violations, including against those widely deemed to be political prisoners. I remain concerned that despite some welcome releases under the alternative sentences law, a number of political prisoners, such as Hassan Mushaima, Dr Abduljalil al-Singace and Sheikh Ali Salman, remain in Jau prison. Quite simply, they should not be in jail, and I join calls for their immediate release.

I urge the UK Government to play a more positive role that is not limited to giving support to oversight bodies in Bahrain, but that instead extends to encouraging and assisting the Bahraini Government in taking such confidence-building measures as, in particular, the release of political prisoners and the initiation of meaningful political dialogue.

I also highlight the exploitative practices against migrant workers, which has come under the spotlight with the building of infrastructure for the World cup in Qatar. The kafala system is the framework that defines the legal status of most migrant workers in the Gulf region, Jordan and Lebanon. Workers are often recruited on time-limited contracts to work for a specific employer. Although there have been welcome changes to the conditions applicable to migrant workers in most Gulf Co-operation Council countries, such as a move to allowing workers to change employers more easily, these reforms can be hard to enforce, and worker protests may result in deportation.

Workers also often still face poor working and living conditions, overt racism and debt bondage. Difficulties continue to beset many migrant domestic workers, who may not benefit from labour laws, including in Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait and Lebanon. They can reportedly face the most abuse, and can be victims of sexual violence. Many women choose not to report these serious violations for fear of losing their job or even being charged with a crime; some women have been prosecuted for having extramarital sex, even in cases of alleged rape.

I am aware that my time is limited, so although I could speak about the middle east all afternoon, I will now briefly highlight concerns in north Africa, particularly in Egypt and Tunisia. Egypt is sadly yet another country where the death penalty is carried out, often after manifestly unfair trials, and many people are arbitrarily detained, often in very poor conditions. There was some media coverage of that in the run-up to COP27.

I make a special plea to the Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office to do all it can to secure the release of British-Egyptian dual national, Alaa Abd el-Fattah, as well as his lawyer, Mohamed el-Baqer, who are among thousands unjustly imprisoned in that country. I can only agree with Amnesty International that Egypt’s adoption of a national human rights strategy is completely disconnected from the reality on the ground. I trust that no one will be taken in by that cynical propaganda exercise.

Turning to the country that was pivotal to what, at the time, was referred to as the Arab spring, it is very sad to see the democratic backsliding that we have witnessed in Tunisia in the last 18 months. It follows what was effectively a coup by President Saied, who suspended Parliament, removed the immunity of parliamentarians, dismissed the Prime Minister, removed other high-level officials from their positions and assumed oversight of the office of the public prosecutor.

Although there had been political deadlock in Parliament and a deteriorating economic situation, which has not since improved, the way forward for Tunisia cannot be a return to authoritarianism, and President Saied cannot be viewed as the country’s saviour. According to the presidential road map, there are to be parliamentary elections next week, but they are very unlikely to be free and fair, the President having been given wide-ranging powers before, during and after the vote. It is feared that Parliament will be reduced to a consultative body at best, and will be there to effectively rubber-stamp decisions by the Executive.

In addition, the Tunisian Parliament is going backwards when it comes to female representation. Whereas it had been a beacon for gender equity in the region, a new law introduced in September strips gender parity provisions from a previous electoral law aimed at ensuring more gender equality in elected assemblies.

Finally, I come to the situation in Zimbabwe. I ask that the UK Government pay special attention to it in the run-up and aftermath of the elections that are due to be held next year, given that past elections have been the catalyst for violence and serious abuses. I continue to urge accountability for the assaults, mistreatment and ongoing persecution of three Opposition politicians from the Movement for Democratic Change Alliance: Cecilia Chimbiri, Netsai Marova, and Member of Parliament Joana Mamombe. They were abducted from police custody by suspected state agents for taking part in a protest in Harare, and are being prosecuted, unbelievably, for making false reports about their abduction. That is another case featured in Amnesty’s “Write for Rights” campaign 2022. Joana’s case has been taken up by the Inter-Parliamentary Union’s committee on the human rights of parliamentarians, which in 2021 dealt with the cases of more than 600 MPs from 44 countries whose rights had been violated.

Though I have focused on the challenges we continue to face in ensuring respect for human rights globally, I would also like to take the time to highlight the positive impact on the ground of human rights defenders, whom the PHRG is privileged to meet regularly, and organisations such as the UN. Recently, we have been delighted to host the UN special rapporteur on human rights defenders, Mary Lawlor; the Council of Europe; Amnesty International; Human Rights Watch; Peace Brigades International; Reprieve; and Redress, among many others. Their work, and our work here, truly does make a difference. The arbitrarily detained, such as Nazanin Zaghari-Ratcliffe, Anoosheh Ashoori and other dual nationals in Iran, are released; those at risk are better protected; and miscarriages of justice are overturned.

One of my small victories this year was the release on humanitarian grounds of a British national in a United Arab Emirates prison. He remained in detention even though he had received a pardon from the King and had served his original sentence. The resilience of this man is unparalleled, and his ability to remain optimistic despite all he went through during his detention is inspiring. I was delighted to finally meet him in person here in London following his release. It was a real reminder of why continued work in this space is so essential, and of the impact that can be had. That work would not have been possible without the help and support of Nicole Piché, secretariat for the PHRG, and the FCDO. That man is now fighting for better medical care for other foreign prisoners in the UAE, to give those he had to leave behind much support that is not otherwise available. I follow his work as he continues with this fight, and feel immensely grateful for the fact that, owing to his release, he is now able to lend his voice to the voiceless.

I want to close by thanking both former and present FCDO Ministers and officials for their positive engagement with the PHRG, and their representations and action on human rights cases. They will be all too familiar with our regular correspondence on various cases, but there is always more that can be done, including on the many issues that I have raised today. I ask the Government to resume publishing their annual human rights report and releasing their human rights updates, as the last one appears to have been published in July last year. The reports provide a useful summary of the action undertaken by the FCDO and are a demonstration of the UK Government’s ongoing commitment to the international human rights framework.

I have only spoken about a small number of countries with worrying human rights records. So many people across the globe—both those whose names we know, and those whose names we do not yet know—are relying on the support of those of us who have the freedom to speak out on their behalf.

Marine Renewables: Government Support

Debate between Margaret Ferrier and Jim Shannon

Wednesday 7th December 2022 Westminster Hall

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

It is a pleasure to speak in this debate, Mr Hollobone. The hon. Member for Gloucester (Richard Graham) is right—I will give my perspective on Strangford Lough. Helping to progress that is my objective in being here.

I thank the right hon. Member for Orkney and Shetland (Mr Carmichael) for setting the scene so very well. Like everyone else in the Chamber today, including me, he is a champion of the coastal regions. On almost every occasion in this House, he and I have supported each other, whether that is on fishing issues or marine life issues. Since my election to this House, it has been my pleasure to work alongside him and learn from him. I thank him for that.

It is a pleasure to see the Minister in his place. I look forward to his response, which I know is always given with consideration and helpfulness. I look forward to the contributions from the two shadow Ministers for the SNP and Labour. They both have a deep interest in these matters, and they will add much to the debate.

[Margaret Ferrier]

Will the hon. Member for Strangford (Jim Shannon) give way before he starts on his amazing speech? The Narrows located between Strangford Lough and the Irish Sea make an optimal location for tidal energy research. As the hon. Gentleman knows, it has hosted a few projects in recent years. Will he speak to the benefits that projects in Strangford Lough have for his constituency and further afield?

International Day for the Elimination of Violence Against Women

Debate between Margaret Ferrier and Jim Shannon

Thursday 1st December 2022 Westminster Hall

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

I congratulate the hon. Members for Bristol South (Karin Smyth) and for Thurrock (Jackie Doyle-Price) on securing the debate. I am very glad to say that the hon. Member for Paisley and Renfrewshire North (Gavin Newlands), who is the spokesperson for the Scots Nats, and I never miss any of these debates. As men, we are very glad to be here.

I welcome the news that earlier this week the UK hosted the preventing sexual violence in conflict initiative summit. The hon. Member for Congleton (Fiona Bruce) asked a question on this very issue at Prime Minister’s questions this week. At business questions today, I asked the Leader of the House a question along these lines. The Government have had the summit and they have shown, through the answers that the Prime Minister and the Leader of the House gave, that there is a commitment on this issue.

It is important that the UK works towards recognising sexual violence in conflict as a line that is not to be crossed, with serious repercussions for the perpetrators of such an awful crime and the violation of a woman or child’s dignity. There are numerous factors that might put a woman at greater risk of violence, but there is one that I will focus on specifically; others will touch on other subjects. The factor I will focus on is women belonging to faith groups who face persecution on the grounds of their faith and the violence that goes along with that.

[Margaret Ferrier]

Sometimes a woman’s decision to wear a headscarf or modest clothing is described as oppression, but there are many women who say that their decision to display their faith in that way is not oppressing; they find it empowering. Does the hon. Member agree that respecting the choices that women make in expressing their faith is an important aspect of society empowering women and girls?

[Jim Shannon]

I certainly do; as always, the hon. Lady brings an aspect to the debate that truly helps to illustrate things.

Persecutors target men, women and children in different ways and to different extents. Women invariably face a greater breadth of persecution, owing to the compounding factors of their faith and their sex, which unfortunately makes them an easy target for those who want to take advantage. It is probably no surprise that the targeting of women is strategic and malicious. Women are the ones who give birth to the next generation and bring up families. It is a great tragedy that their life-giving nature is violated by extremists and those with evil intent, as they take away their life of freedom and peace.

A report by Open Doors on the persecution of Christian women and girls explains that in countries impacted by conflict in central and west Africa—Nigeria, the Central African Republic and the Democratic Republic of the Congo being key examples—women and girls are at high risk of abduction. The report states:

“Once taken, they are then forced to marry militants and bear children, who are used to boost the ranks of militant groups”.

Such “forced marriage” is rape by another name. Horrifically, the bodies of women and girls offer an extra dimension of conflict for extremists and perpetrators of violence to wreak their destruction and their dehumanising actions.

One example of such gender-based persecution is Leah Sharibu, who was kidnapped along with 110 other students from her school back in 2018. The Islamic State of west Africa refused to release Leah when she did not renounce her Christian faith. Leah is still waiting for release. When some of us were in Nigeria in May, we asked about her and we were hopeful that something was going to happen, but it does not seem that anything has happened. I hope that the Minister can give us some indication of what is happening. Leah has been forcibly married and raped since the age of 14. She now has two children born of that forced marriage, with little hope of being able to pass on the Christian faith that she believes in to her own children.

Regrettably, Leah’s case is just one of thousands of such cases. How is it that eight years after Daesh launched a genocidal campaign against the Yazidis, with 2,763 Yazidi women and children still missing, nobody seems to be interested in this issue? I am not being critical of the Minister or the Government, but can we be given some indication about what is happening to those Yazidi women? It seems that they are off the radar for nearly everybody who I can think of.

My hope is that the Government ensure that any funding given to support women and girls around the world targets women and girls who face vulnerabilities due to their faith, with the Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office recognising faith as a factor in such vulnerability. Defending women and girls should encompass all aspects of the UK Government’s overseas engagements. Therefore, the Department for International Trade should seriously consider any reports of gender-specific religious persecution as it negotiates trade deals and before it signs any new trade agreements. Our Government should take care about the human rights records of countries with which they trade. Turning a blind eye to the treatment of women in a country we benefit from is not something that I wish to hear about. I want to hear about how we are moving forward progressively and positively for women and girls.

Finally—I am conscious of the time, Ms Elliott—increased efforts must be made to help women and girls who suffer violence and endure persecution because of their faith to reach safety. I will give another example: I am saddened that Pakistani Christian girl Maira Shahbaz is still in hiding after escaping her Muslim abductor in Pakistan. She is still waiting for the Home Office to grant her asylum claim. It is unbelievable. The facts are obvious; the evidence is there. The Right Rev. Philip Mounstephen, the Bishop of Truro, has said:

“Tragic cases like that of Maira Shahbaz are a test case for the UK Government’s commitment to put freedom and religion front and centre in its foreign policy.”

My comments today are a new call for the Government to do just that and make freedom of religion or belief a reality for everyone across the world.

UN International Day of Persons with Disabilities

Debate between Margaret Ferrier and Jim Shannon

Thursday 24th November 2022 Commons Chamber

[Jim Shannon]

The hon. Lady is most kind, and I hope that was the case.

I am pleased to be here to speak. I am also a vice-chair—in this place, I chair many APPGs and I am vice-chair of numerous others—of the APPG on disability. So it is always great to be here to promote the rights and wellbeing of those with disabilities and their contribution to all aspects of our society—educationally, socially, culturally and politically. As my party’s health spokesperson, I will always stand up for those with disabilities, because I want to see a society—I think the Minister would want to see such a society as well; I think we all do in this House, to be fair—that recognises achievement and ability, and does not look down upon somebody who just happens to have a disability, which I find disappointing for some of the people we meet in life, and we do meet them regularly.

It is always good to see the shadow Minister, the hon. Member for Oxford East (Anneliese Dodds), in her place—I know she is a lady of great experience and capability, so we look forward to her contribution—and also the spokesperson for the Scots nats party, the hon. Member for Motherwell and Wishaw (Marion Fellows), who is always here whenever we have such debates. I welcome the Minister to his place and I look forward to the answers that we seek today. I think that these are open door requests—I really believe that—and that it is hard to say no to the requests that we are making on behalf of those who are disabled, so we look forward to the Minister’s contribution.

The latest estimates from the family resources survey indicate that 14.6 million people in the UK had a disability in the 2020-21 financial year. That represents some 22% of the total population, and one in five—one in five —of the population in Northern Ireland. So it is important to remember the range of disabilities and impairments that people suffer with. Some are not visible—for instance, autism or bipolar disorder. I am not smarter than anybody else, but I understand these things because of my direct contact with my constituents. A large proportion of constituents come to see us about disability issues. Some are not noticeable—for instance, fibromyalgia. We cannot see that in the hands when constituents come in and present themselves, but they can tell us about it and about just how bad that is for many of them. It features in almost every one of the applications for personal independence payments that I do in my office. Again, I am not an expert—far from it—but I do understand. Regardless of that, we have continued to ask for respect for how someone’s disability impacts their daily life. I want disabled people to be recognised for their ability and achievement, not for their disability.

One of my staff members deals specifically with benefit queries in my office, whether that be disability living allowance, children’s DLA, PIP, income support or ESA—the most prominent forms of benefit claimed. We never truly know how different disabilities can affect one’s mobility and getting around. My staff member does that five days a week and does nothing else but benefits. That gives an idea of the magnitude of the issue. As a physically active Member of Parliament, I fill in the application forms as well. That gives us an understanding of the benefit and how to deal with it. It gives me an understanding of how life at present is so different.

The RNIB, which the hon. Member for Battersea referred to, is important. It has referred to the energy price and food price increases. While we who are able-bodied in this Chamber are able to budget and cut the cloth accordingly, many people who are disabled do not have that ability. I will ask this later again, but what can be done to help people who have disabilities in particular when it comes to dealing with those things?

The hon. Lady and the right hon. Member for East Ham referred to tribunal success. In our office, we have a 75% to 80% success rate in the benefit tribunals that we do on all those different benefits. I say this gently, because I understand that people make decisions based on what they have on paper in front of them: sometimes, when you have a face-to-face with a person at a tribunal, you can see things differently. Sometimes the tribunal sees things differently and it also provides a chance to bring forward the medical evidential base to back up the case. Perhaps these things could be done in the process as we go forward. None the less, it is a pleasure to represent people on the things that they need us to do.

On 24 September, the Minister for Communities in Northern Ireland announced that work would begin on a new social inclusion strategy, including a disability strategy that aims to promote positive attitudes towards disabled people and ensure their inclusion in society. I welcome that. It is good to do that. We should be focused on how we can do it better and that we see not the disability but the person and their potential to achieve and do well. That is what I want and what I hope to see. At the end of the day—I say this with respect—those people are human beings, just like everyone else.

The RNIB has been in contact with my office—it has also been in contact with the hon. Member for Battersea and others in the Chamber—and made it clear that the cost of living crisis is becoming increasingly difficult for people with disabilities. It said that more than two thirds of people with disabilities said that their financial situation had gotten worse, and more than a third often go without essentials, such as food and heating, and struggle to make ends meet. I hope the Minister will be able to answer this question: what can we do to assist people with disabilities when it comes to the energy crisis, food price increases and everything in life that seems to be getting more and more expensive? That is a big ask of the Minister.

[Margaret Ferrier]

The hon. Gentleman, as well as the hon. Member for Battersea (Marsha De Cordova), mentioned the RNIB and people with a disability with sight. A real concern that many constituents have raised with me is the confidence of some taxi drivers in turning away passengers with guide dogs. Of course, that is illegal, but they struggle to see the consequences of that as it continues to happen. Does he agree that Governments across the UK should be tackling that together and stopping it?

[Jim Shannon]

As often, whether it be in the House or in Westminster Hall, the hon. Lady gives us a salient reminder of the issue. Back home, even though it is illegal, as she said, it is still happening in certain parts. I do not understand the logic of it, because those guide dogs are among the best I have seen. Many years ago, the RNIB took me to Hollywood in Northern Ireland, gave me a guide dog and let me walk through the high street with a mask on. I could not see a thing; it was pure darkness. That was one of my better experiences in coming to understand how it is for some. I must say that I did not know the guide dog and it did not know me, but it stuck to my knee and negotiated the whole way down the high street. It is a busy high street with obstructions —people have coffee tables out—and we came to footpaths where I did not know what was going on, but the dog did. That is a fond memory, if I can say that, which has helped me to understand better what it means to be blind and the importance of that understanding.

I feel strongly about encouraging disabled people into education and employment. The most recent labour force survey showed that some 38.9% of people with a disability in Northern Ireland were employed in 2020, compared with 78.4% of people who were not disabled. Wow—that is a big factor to address. We need to squeeze the gap in opportunities for those with a disability and able to work to allow them to stand alongside those who are not disabled.

The hon. Member for Battersea referred to accommodation, which is another issue that regularly comes up in my office. Many times, we have people come in who are on benefits and have mobility issues. They might be in an upstairs flat or a house with stairs, which was okay when they were not disabled, but, as life has progressed, they have become disabled and that property is no longer suitable for them. That is a regular issue, as is people finding themselves in wheelchairs and needing a disabled facilities grant for their home, which in many cases may involve extensive changes to doorways, a ramp to the front of the house and perhaps one to the rear, and a walk-in shower and a bathroom all at a level. Perhaps we need to look at those things as well.

The rate of those with disabilities in employment has incrementally increased, which is a great sign that there is more public encouragement and awareness that people who are disabled are just as capable of doing jobs. Will the Minister outline what steps will be taken to encourage employers to employ those who are disabled? My requests will always be made in a constructive fashion—I mean that—because I look for the answers and the solutions. I know that that is what he wants as well. Many of the disabled people I meet have incredible intelligence and ability. I confess that I am no good at IT, but some of the people I meet are absolutely first-class; nay, with their IT skills they could do a job as well as others or a lot better. What can we do to increase their employment in a way that makes life better for them?

Another issue that needs to be addressed is the disability pay gap. Both previous speakers referred to it. It seems that, for those who are disabled—I say this gently—their time in employment is worth less than anyone else’s. It should not be, so what are we doing to address that? Employers sometimes need to understand that they should look not at the person but at their ability and power to achieve. In 2020, the disability employment gap in Northern Ireland was 42.2 percentage points, compared with 27.9 percentage points in the rest of the UK. That is not the Minister’s direct responsibility, but has he had any opportunity for discussions with his equivalent Minister in Northern Ireland? I know that he will do that. It is always good to share stories and experiences, because sometimes we can learn from things—I always do—and our Ministers can learn from where they have fallen short while things here are better. How can we share those experiences to make things better?

In addition, some disabilities are not recognised as such in the benefit system. For example, endometriosis and asthma have only recently been recognised as disabilities in PIP assessments despite being long or lifetime conditions that disable somebody from everyday tasks. We often have those issues.

There must be a proper consensus in the Department on what a disability is.

Myalgic encephalomyelitis and multiple sclerosis were first brought to my attention many years ago. In those days, doctors often did not quite understand what ME or MS were. I could see clearly from the person and the medical evidence from a consultant that there was a disability, but unfortunately—it is not a criticism; it is about how we move on and learn things—GPs sometimes did not have that understanding. Today, however, MS and ME, whose symptoms include incredible fatigue and pain, are recognised as disabilities.

Not every person who has a disability can work, but at the same time they are not always entitled to benefits. I believe the best way to encourage disabled people into work is to take away stigma, as many disabled people are forced to challenge stereotypes and prejudice when they are looking for work. In the autumn statement, I genuinely welcomed, because it is a positive step, the help for those on benefits trying to get back into work. Many people want to work, and they should be encouraged and helped along that pathway, as long as they are able and can do it, so that was one of the good things that came out of the autumn statement.

Disability inclusion is an essential condition to upholding human rights, sustainable development, and peace and security. People with disabilities are no different from us—I have said it before and I will say it again—and the United Nations disability inclusion strategy, which is part of this debate, provides the foundation for sustainable and transformative progress on disability inclusion through all pillars of the work of the United Nations. We all must work on disability inclusion within our own constituencies, in Strangford and across this great United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, in employment, education and society to promote the inclusion of all, and equality and fairness in our modern society. Would it not be wonderful—I always seek wonderful things, and it is not wrong to do so—if disabled people across society could have that as a key part of their employment, education, housing, health and benefits? That is the purpose of today’s debate.

I commend the hon. Member for Battersea and the right hon. Member for East Ham for their contributions. I look forward to others’ contributions, especially the Minister’s. We have set you a long list of asks, Minister. We look forward to the answers.

West Balkans: Council of Europe

Debate between Margaret Ferrier and Jim Shannon

Wednesday 16th November 2022 Westminster Hall

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairship, Ms Nokes. I thank the hon. Member for Henley (John Howell) for leading the debate and for his consistent and sterling efforts as leader of the UK delegation to the Council of Europe. I think we all believe that that delegation is in good hands. If I had the opportunity, I would vote for the hon. Gentleman, and I know others would as well.

Although the UK is no longer a member of the European Union—I am proud to be a Brexiteer—we do our best through the Council of Europe to uphold human rights, democracy and the rule of law. I am my party’s spokesperson for human rights and equality issues across the world, whether they be in Europe, the middle east or elsewhere.

I sincerely thank the right hon. and gallant Member for Beckenham (Bob Stewart) for his contribution. I have heard it before but it does not make it less powerful to hear it again. We are all aware of his courage, his bravery and his dedication to the peace and stability of the Balkans. He did it in uniform, and I give my thanks—indeed, all our thanks—to him for that. He is a dear friend; he knows that. We think very highly of him.

The debate is especially important as the last time we debated the issue was back in February, at the start of Russia’s invasion of Ukraine, and we have since seen the devastation that has occurred as a result. The UK has always been a leading force in the Council of Europe, ably championed by the hon. Member for Henley, in holding Putin to account, so it is great to be here to discuss the protection of other small states.

On 13 December last year, the former Prime Minister, the right hon. Member for South West Norfolk (Elizabeth Truss), met the Foreign Ministers of the six west Balkan states of Albania, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Kosovo, Montenegro, North Macedonia and Serbia. The hon. Member for Henley referred to Turkey as well. I have a deep interest in Turkey, particularly because of its human rights abuses. The fact that it suppresses and discriminates against ethnic minorities and those of other religious viewpoints is something we have to highlight, and I am glad that the hon. Member continues to do that.

[Margaret Ferrier]

With the dangerous rhetoric about religion heightening in Bosnia and Herzegovina, does the hon. Member agree that protecting freedom of religion across the region must be a key priority, particularly as some neighbouring countries look to join the EU?

[Jim Shannon]

I certainly do. I know the Minister will respond positively. She knows that I have a deep interest in that issue. As the chair of the all-party parliamentary group for international freedom of religion or belief, it comes up all the time, and I will go on to speak about it. The hon. Member for Henley referred to fit and healthy single males who seem to be leaving Albania with regularity to come to the United Kingdom. I am not against any person who wants to emigrate, but do it legally through the system. Don’t jump on a boat and come across.

I watched a TV programme last week that looked at a village in Albania. The village previously had a population of around 1,000, but it was down to less than 100. Those left behind were elderly people and children—not many children at that—because they are all coming across. When it comes to Albania, maybe the Minister could give some indication of what discussions there have been through the Council of Europe and what the Council will do to ensure that people do not come across in these increasing numbers.

International Doctors: Visas

Debate between Margaret Ferrier and Jim Shannon

Wednesday 2nd November 2022 Westminster Hall

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

I thank you for allowing me to participate in the debate, Mr Stringer. I thank the hon. Member for Boston and Skegness (Matt Warman) for bringing this matter to light. It is good to see the Minister in his place—a return to duty in his ministerial role—and I am confident that, like the rest of us, he will be keen to address the key issues of the debate and why this issue is so important. I wish him well in this new role and look forward to his response to our questions.

The issue of visas is always a difficult one. I am incredibly aware of the need to protect our country and ensure that only those who have a desire to enjoy British life and to enhance it should be given visas. I understand the system of immigration and agree that it should be rigorously implemented. However, within that, we very much need to have the appropriate systems for the appropriate types of visa. That is why I believe that changes need to be made, as outlined by the hon. Member. Talented and skilled doctors want to come here and contribute to our society but unfortunately, due to the visa system, they are not always able to do so. For me, the issue is: how can we help them to help us in the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland?

[Margaret Ferrier]

As the hon. Member for Boston and Skegness (Matt Warman) said, a difficulty that many international medical graduates face is that many GP practices do not have a visa sponsorship licence in place, making it harder to meet the requirements before the student’s studies end. Does the hon. Member share my concerns about the general level of the Home Office backlog and the associated impact on IMGs?

[Jim Shannon]

I agree with the hon. Lady. I hope that through today’s debate and contributions, this issue can be addressed. Again, we look to the Minister to give us some help, direction or support in how we can go through the vigorous bureaucracy that is clearly there. People with talent and skills want to come here; it is about how we can make that happen.

I have raised immigration on multiple occasions with Home Office Ministers—in particular, with regard to visas for those working on fishing boats in my constituency and the skilled work done by Filipino fishermen. The previous Minister was most helpful. That work is undoubtedly skilled, but it is under the pay threshold, so visa requirements sometimes restrict that opportunity.

Junior doctors, nurses and others do work that is not highly paid but highly skilled and necessary. That is why there must be time-sensitive application systems for those vital jobs and staff members. We need flexibility in the system. I say this again because it is important: those highly skilled and highly talented people who wish to come here will add to society and enable us to fill some of the vacancies.

I cannot speak for the United Kingdom mainland, but I can certainly speak with some knowledge of Northern Ireland. I am my party’s health spokesperson, and the research we did for this debate shows that 6,613 vacancies are listed for the five trusts in Northern Ireland. I know that they are not entirely for medical staff, but it is clear that we are desperately in need of staff, and there are many opportunities for doctors.

In my constituency and neighbouring constituencies, we are having problems in relation to GPs. I absolutely agree that there is a need for restrictive immigration, but we must not cut off our nose to spite our face. I am sure those numbers are replicated throughout the entire UK; perhaps the Minister will give us some figures for GP vacancies. I know that the Government have set out a strategy for employing and recruiting more GPs—that is good news.

During the Brexit discussions, we were told that there would be distinct differences between the visa systems. That is as it should be. The hon. Member for Boston and Skegness said that the system needs to be altered to meet the need, and that is what we need to do today.

The hon. Gentleman mentioned GPs, and we are of the same mindset. In a neighbouring constituency, a GP surgery, which is 10 minutes from my office, is set to close down because there are not enough GPs. In response, the GPs in my area have issued a moratorium on joining or leaving local practices. In other words, they will not take any more patients, and in some cases they are directing patients who live outside the area—that was okay a few years ago—to go elsewhere.

The trust is hopeful that it will get more GPs to take over the practice, but the fact is that we simply do not have enough GPs. That puts more pressure on the existing ones, which leads to more burnout, and the vicious cycle continues. GPs are under incredible pressure. Patients want to meet their GP; they want face-to-face appointments. That has been lost to them over the past two and a half years due to covid, but they are trying hard to get back in the queue.

The hon. Gentleman said that 40% of all GP trainees are international medical graduates—the hon. Member for Rutherglen and Hamilton West (Margaret Ferrier) referred to that—but they have difficulties obtaining visas. I do not have the exact numbers for Northern Ireland, but I do know that we cannot afford the loss of any more GPs. I therefore add my voice to those of others in the Chamber requesting that a special dispensation be granted not simply to allow those trainees to stay but to enable us to recruit further.

If there a block of trainee GPs who have almost completed their degrees and courses and are ready to come here, let us encourage them to do so. The question is not why it cannot happen, but how we can make it happen. The thought of training GPs to understand how we do medicine and run our practices, only for them to leave—not because they want to but because the system is not working for them—is madness. That needs to be addressed through this debate.

Recently, medical professionals outlined to me that the mental health and self- esteem of our medical community are at an all-time low because the staff are simply burned out. I have met many nurses, GPs and surgeons who are absolutely exhausted with the work they do. For those who are on call and have a duty rota to complete, being sent an SOS text to cover shifts is no longer exceptional; it is standard. That tells us that the GPs need to be employed and some of the pressure taken off.

We need to change the way that things are done, by giving GPs more admin support and funding for on-site nutritionists, physios and mental health teams, which we need within all health clinics. In my constituency, they are trying to do that regularly, and it should help to diagnose early, whether the problem is diabetes, arthritis or dementia. Whatever the issue, doing that correctly in GP surgeries is the way forward.

It is impossible to imagine that things can go on much longer the way they have for the past two and a half to three years throughout the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. We need change, flexibility and help, Minister. We do not want to put all the pressure on the Minister, but in this case there are ways forward. The hon. Member for Boston and Skegness has outlined them, as have I and others. We look forward to a successful conclusion to this debate, with a way forward from which we can all benefit across this great United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.

Global Food Security

Debate between Margaret Ferrier and Jim Shannon

Wednesday 26th October 2022 Westminster Hall

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

It is not often that I get called immediately after the proposer of the debate, so I am greatly encouraged and a bit taken aback that that should be the case. It is a real pleasure to be here and to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Pritchard. I commend the hon. Member for Birmingham, Erdington (Mrs Hamilton) for setting the scene in such an evidential and factual way. I am sure this is the first of many debates that she will have in Westminster Hall, and we look forward to her making many more contributions.

This debate is incredibly important in today’s climate, for every aspect of daily life is being drowned in the cost of living crisis. It has engulfed us all; we read about it in the newspaper, hear about it on the radio and see it on the TV. The negativity that seems to permeate society about rises in the price of energy, fuel and foodstuffs is real, in every sense of the word. I commented last week about the price of some products back home; for example, eggs that were £1 for 10 are now £1.89—an 89% increase. Milk, another staple, is up 79p since before the crisis. Those are just two of the basics of life. The problems that people face are real, and that has been especially true in the last couple of weeks.

In addition, the devastating impact that the Northern Ireland protocol is having on smaller food producers in both the mainland and Northern Ireland often goes ignored. I will develop that theme when I talk about how we in Northern Ireland are impacted by global food security.

I am pleased to see the Minister in his place. I think this might be a new portfolio for him. I know that he has been exceptional in past portfolios, and I look forward to his reply to this debate. I also look forward to the contribution of the shadow Minister, the hon. Member for Birmingham, Edgbaston (Preet Kaur Gill), who is a good friend of mine.

[Margaret Ferrier]

According to new research, 40% of the global commercial seed market is owned by two companies, compared with 10 companies 25 years ago. Does the hon. Member share my concern that the lack of competition in the global food market broadly risks leaving the world’s food security at the mercy of a select few?

[Jim Shannon]

Yes, wholeheartedly. We are in a complex situation, and that has implications. There are some who control what happens. I know that the Minister and the Government do not always control whether we can have the impact we want to have, but I know that the Minister will address some of these issues when he responds.

Our food industry has shown incredible commitment in manufacturing, farming and fishing throughout the pandemic, including during the panic buying. It has dealt with the impacts of Brexit and the protocol, and our dedication to the Ukrainians after the Russian invasion. Our Government have committed to all those things. I fully support that, and I understand the need to do those things. This is about the safety of the world. We are not just individuals playing our own game; the rest of the world impacts us all, so the title of the debate, “Global food security,” is apt. We are part of a team that work together as best we can.

We therefore have a need for greater resilience in the UK’s entire food system. We are fully aware of the threats that can damage our food systems, emphasising the greater need for systems to be in place for our protection. Recent pioneering research from the Institute for Global Food Security at Queen’s University Belfast in Northern Ireland has established us as leaders in addressing global food security through our agritech industry partnering with different industries to develop solutions. Elected representatives often understand the need to partner with universities. Queen’s University Belfast is one of those. Such partnerships are replicated across the whole United Kingdom, and I know that others will emphasise that. For us in Northern Ireland, Queen’s University is a key partner to take this matter forward.

We recognise how important the agrifood sector is in Northern Ireland. Some 80% of what we produce in Northern Ireland is sold overseas, so it is important for us to develop that sector. There are many, many markets that we can develop. Lakeland Dairies, for example, produces a milk powder that it exports all over the world, and it is instrumental in growing that market. Even through the hard times of covid, that market was growing because the agrifood and agritech sectors have taken great steps forward.

We have been somewhat left behind by ignorance—I say that with great respect—as little consideration has been given to how the Northern Ireland protocol has impacted our food security strategies. We want to grow our sector. We need that protection and security. The Food and Drink Federation surveyed 83 members, half of which were deemed large businesses with over 250 employees, and found that food and drink imports into Northern Ireland had decreased by 10% because of the Northern Ireland protocol. I fail to see how we can possibly encourage food security strategies when Northern Ireland has been left behind. I always try to be constructive, but there is an anomaly here that has to be addressed.

I am sure Members are aware that my constituency of Strangford is rich in farming and fishing. I know the Minister has been to Portavogie. His former portfolio as Veterans Minister prompted him to visit Beyond the Battlefield there, so he knows the village and exactly where I am talking about. It is the second largest fishing village in Northern Ireland. Fishing is incredibly important for us. The Northern Ireland agrifood sector is imperative for our food security system. We produce food for five times our population and employ more than 100,000 people in that sector alone, and it is our largest manufacturing industry, so agriculture, the production line and manufacturing are critical.

I have mentioned before the concerns that land could be reforested, when it could be used further to advance the security of our agriculture sector. I urge the Minister to ensure that that is not the case. I appreciate his response to me and the debate. Food poverty has been an issue in the past two years. Local food banks in my area have been inundated with those struggling to obtain food. My office refers at least 20 people each week for assistance; that is more than 1,040 a year. That gives an indication of the impact.

The Trussell Trust food bank was the first initiated in Northern Ireland, in Newtownards in my constituency. That has grown alongside the need and demand. There is also an issue with food access, emphasised by the fact that more than 97,000 children are entitled to free school meals. It is important that the Government have responded to that, and made sure that those children have free school meals, but the fact that so many—the largest number ever—are in receipt of free school meals indicates that things are not the way they should be. I make that point in a constructive fashion. We must ensure that poverty is taken into account when it comes to food security.

The UK imports 47% of our food. I know we cannot grow everything here. It is not possible to grow some of the fruit, vegetables and minerals that we bring in. There have been debates on this issue in the past in Westminster Hall. I mentioned reforesting; it is good to have more trees for the lungs of the world, but it is also important to have land. Good, productive land should be retained for production. Other land could be used for reforesting and becoming the lungs of the world.

We must ensure that our imports are secure for the benefit of local and global food security. Our food security strategy falls within the UK and also externally, which is why the debate title, “Global food security,” is so important. We must protect and encourage the alignment of the four regional Administrations to pave the way for global food security. When we make decisions at Westminster, we must think about how they work in Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland, so that we can do the job better together.

I hope that the Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs will do all in its power to preserve and protect our agriculture sector, which has proved instrumental for our food security, especially the contributions for my constituency of Strangford, as I am sure all Members will agree. I encourage the Minister to consider the installation of a private body to oversee the UK as a whole and our joint collaboration to achieve our food security goals. I say this often, but that does not lessen its impact: I believe that the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland can do great things together. I think the Minister will endorse that. Let us do that.

Kinship Carers

Debate between Margaret Ferrier and Jim Shannon

Tuesday 18th October 2022 Westminster Hall

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

What a pleasure it is to speak in this debate, Ms Ali. The hon. Member for Twickenham (Munira Wilson) put forward a very concrete case, not that she had to do that for me—I was already on her side. I think we all are. She outlined the detail of kinship care and how important it is. It is something in which I have a particular interest. This is an opportunity to express the views that the hon. Lady and the hon. Member for Denton and Reddish (Andrew Gwynne) put forward. I thank him for sharing his story. He and his wife gave that young child a chance in life; without their love and affection, who knows where that young child would be today?

I am pleased to see the Minister in her place; we have had many engagements in the past. When she was responsible for high streets, we had her over to Newtownards and she was most responsive to our enquiries. Even now, that visit is still talked about very favourably by the people the Minister met. I look forward to her response to this debate because, looking at her past responses, I am certain that she will be every bit as positive as she was when she came to Newtownards.

I am well known as an advocate for kinship care. I believe that knowing they are part of a family means something to a child, even if circumstances sometimes mean they cannot be with their mummy and daddy. Having a familial bond with a loving care family is helpful. I am shocked by what the hon. Member for Denton and Reddish said—that one 12-year-old boy was located 100 miles away from his siblings. My goodness! The hon. Member for Liverpool, West Derby (Ian Byrne) and I were just saying that we could hardly believe that. Why would they do that? Surely the sibling bond is important to keep going, and siblings should be kept together.

Over the years, I have had some good friends who have fostered and given kinship care. One lady in Newtownards, whom I know very well, fostered all her life; I was always amazed because she gave young boys and girls an opportunity to have a loving family relationship. Sometimes those young people came from very challenging circumstances. It is not always a bed of roses being a foster or kinship carer.

I also have an extremely good friend who has been my friend for all of my life—he is younger than me, so I should say all of his life—and who fosters five children. He tells me now and again some of the things that happen. Some of those children come from very disturbed homes; they come from a background where love was never there. When they come to a new home, they find a mum and dad, and also a number of siblings from different families who love and care for each other. Kinship care provides an incredible chance to give an opportunity to young people.

I always give a Northern Ireland perspective—the Minister and others will know that—and we have a very high rate of kinship care there. On 30 March 2021, 81% of children who were being looked after—2,857 children—were living with foster carers. Of that number, 1,400 were in non-kinship foster care; 1,457 were in kinship foster care—an even break in the numbers. In Northern Ireland, we are still eagerly trying to encourage others to take up the opportunity of foster and kinship care, because there are still many children who do not have a parent to look after them, or a mummy and daddy—be that biological or not—to give them the love that they need.

Those numbers show a high level of families who want to help out in the short term, and even in the long term. The 81% represents children who are in kinship foster care and non-kinship foster care, but it leaves 19% who do not have anybody. An interesting statistic that I came across, which poses a challenge in a factual but hopefully compassionate way, is that 25% of children of compulsory school age who were looked after continuously for 12 months or more had a statement of special educational needs. That compares with only 6% of the general school population.

[Margaret Ferrier]

As the hon. Gentleman has just said, many children in those arrangements do have additional support needs. That can be difficult for carers if both the carer and the child do not have access to the right support. Health services are under a massive strain across the UK at the moment with long wait times, but formal diagnosis can often be the key to accessing the right services for ongoing support. Does he agree that this is an area that must be reviewed urgently?

[Jim Shannon]

I thank the hon. Lady for bringing forward something very pertinent to the debate, as she so often does in Westminster Hall and the Chamber. I wholeheartedly agree with everything she said. It is really important that these issues are addressed.

The figure of 25% of children in kinship and foster care having special educational needs compares to the figure among the general population of just 6%. That tells us—or should tell us, as the hon. Lady has just said—that something needs to be done. When she sums up, can the Minister give us some indication of how the extra help that is clearly needed can be given?

People can give love—mums and dads do that, foster carers and kinship carers do that—but sometimes, no matter how hard people want to love, it can be challenging. It is important that the extra help is given. It is not always an easy decision to bring a new family member into the home. It can be a disruption to one’s own family and children. In life, I try never to judge anybody, so I never judge a grandparent, aunt or uncle who simply cannot make it work, because it sometimes does not work, and sometimes the reason for that is that they are on their own.

People who are able to foster should be encouraged and should know that they are not alone—in other words, there is somebody there who they can talk to. There are support networks and social workers, and there is financial help to make it work if at all possible. I am ever mindful of that. Sometimes a problem shared is a problem halved. Quite often it helps just being able to bounce off somebody and talk about what something means. The hon. Members for Twickenham and for Denton and Reddish referred to how important it is to have someone just to share things with. I think it is probably the same with all of life. It is always good to share something with someone. I think it always helps to talk issues through if at all possible.

In this cost of living crisis, I would like to think that carers will be given a bit more to help, so that additional strain is not placed on the family unit’s finances. We are here to underline these issues. I would ask the Minister in a kind way, not to be negative, for a response that can encourage us. Will there be a cost of living payment to kinship families to help with the additional pressure of groceries and petrol increases? All these things are a substantial part of fostering and kinship care. Bringing other people into the family unit adds pressure, and we need to ensure that financial stress is not part of the equation. How often in life do financial bills seem to overwhelm us all? Our constituents tell us that they place such a burden that they are unable to focus on the love, care and affection they want to give.

As of April 2022, foster carers receive £141 a week for a child aged nought to four, £156 for a child aged five to 10, £177 for a child aged 11 to 15, and £207 for those aged 16 and over. That does not seem to take into account the additional cost of living increase. Some may say that the house needs to be heated whether there are one or five people in the house, but anyone who has a teenager knows that heating the water for a daily shower can require a mortgage itself. I say that jokingly. I had three young boys, and they were always showering. They were always chasing the ladies—I suppose that was the reason. They always wanted to look well, and their hair had to be in place. They are lucky; my hair disappeared 20-odd years ago and it has never come back, but that is by the bye.

I am asking that more help be temporarily allocated to the kinship allowance in the light of the crisis we are all in. It is easy for us to always ask for something, but we are asking on behalf of the kinship and foster carers who do such fantastic work. We have all heard the statistics on the outcomes for children who are looked after, who are not always as well placed as children who are in their own family units, and I understand that, but what carers try to do is make the home and its surroundings easier for those children to settle into.

Through no fault of their own the odds are stacked against these children, and we have a duty to do all we can to place them with family members in their own communities. As the hon. Member for Denton and Reddish said, we should not send one sibling 100 miles away; that should never happen, and it annoys me to think that it did—I am sure the trauma that all the siblings went through as a result was quite substantial. Kinship fostering is absolutely vital to enable their little lives to continue, including their schooling and the friendship groups and friends that they have made and that the might suddenly lose.

I conclude with this: the debate has given us an opportunity to highlight the issue, to raise awareness of where we are and to bring together all the detail, information and evidence, while hearing about the personal involvement of the hon. Members for Denton and Reddish and for Twickenham, who set the scene so well. I look forward to hearing the SNP shadow Minister, the hon. Member for Glasgow East (David Linden), who is a dear friend of mine and who knows this subject well—we will certainly hear some important words from him shortly. I also look forward to hearing the shadow Minister, the hon. Member for Dulwich and West Norwood (Helen Hayes). Then it is over to the Minister, who will have to answer all those questions in a way that will encourage us. I am pretty sure I will not be disappointed, but it is important that we do all we can to offer more help and better outcomes to vulnerable children. It is worth any investment that it takes to provide additional support for those who take on children to make their lives just that wee bit more settled.

War in Ukraine: UK Farming and Food Production

Debate between Margaret Ferrier and Jim Shannon

Wednesday 20th July 2022 Westminster Hall

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

Thank you, Dame Angela. It is unusual for me, although I am very pleased, to be called first. You almost knocked me off my stride there. May I first of all thank the hon. Member for City of Chester (Christian Matheson)? He is a dear friend—he knows that—and I support all that he said in his introduction. He set the scene very well. We are all here today because we understand the importance of farming. For me and my constituents, it is critical. I live on a farm. I declare an interest as a farmer and a member of the Ulster Farmers’ Union, so I thank the hon. Gentleman for securing this debate.

I do not have the time to work on the farm as I would like to. If not for my father’s illness many years ago, I would probably have been a farmer. Unfortunately, at that time it coincided with the purchase of the farm. My job on the farm—my mother still owns the farm that I live on—is to look after the buildings and maintain the structures and roads and so on. It is quite a job. On Saturday afternoon my job is to go about and make sure those tasks are done. Next week when I am off during recess I will have more time, and will be doing all those wee jobs at night-time as well. It is an absolute pleasure and privilege to live on a farm, so I am pleased to contribute to the debate on behalf of my farmers.

I am well placed, as others are in this Chamber, to highlight the needs of the farming community. I really am pleased to see the Minister in her place. She has an incredible understanding of the issue, and I know that when we speak to the Minister and ask her a question, we push at an open door because she always responds. I mean that genuinely and seriously, because every one of us appreciates that opportunity to contact the Minister about issues that are so important to us. I mostly contact the Minister about fishing, but I have occasion to ask about farming issues today.

Russia is the world’s biggest exporter of wheat, producing around 18% of international exports, and Ukraine produces around 12% of the world’s wheat. Ukraine also produces 17.5% of the world’s supply of maize, as Farmers Guide recently outlined:

“The war in Ukraine has added another layer of uncertainty for British farmers after an already tumultuous couple of years. Recent weeks have sparked concern over the supply and spiralling cost of input and supplies, with the market changing on a day-to-day basis.”

The hon. Gentleman referred to that: there is a change almost every week, a price increase and hike, which presents lots of problems.

[Margaret Ferrier]

Global food supply chains were already facing significant pressure before the outbreak of war in Ukraine. Today, inflation has hit an astronomical 9.4%. There have even been reports that food banks are struggling to maintain enough resources. Does the hon. Gentleman agree that there needs to be swift action, to ensure that vulnerable people have access to affordable food?

[Jim Shannon]

As so often, the hon. Lady makes a very sensible and helpful point. I wholeheartedly agree, not because she says it, but because I can see the practical issues for food banks in my constituency. The week before last we had a collection at the Tesco store in Ards, where people were incredibly generous. That helps the food banks to sustain their coffers, cupboards and shelves, but they tell me they see incredible pressures they have never seen before—and there have been some difficult times over the past while.

The Farmers Guide also points out:

“the market changing on a day-to-day basis—making business planning for the future extremely difficult…Livestock farmers buying in feed will have been hit by the wheat price increases from around £220/tonne to nearly £300/tonne, while fertiliser prices have reacted very strongly, rising from £200-300/tonne a year ago to around £1,000/tonne.”

That is something that farmers tell me. That is an increase of almost 400%, which is astronomical and leads to concerns about availability.

I spoke to a neighbour last Sunday on my walk at about 7 o’clock in the morning, which is always a nice time. I passed him in the lane and asked how he was getting on. He told me he does not put as much fertiliser on the ground because it is too costly. The only way to compensate is to cut back and use less fertiliser. He told me they had been fortunate this year. The first cut was not a good one, but the second cut was equal to last year, because of the weather, which has been incredibly warm, but there have been showers of rain as well. Less fertiliser is a godsend in a way; it means that the second cut of silage, and probably the third, will be good with less fertiliser. Maybe the soil had lots of fertiliser in it; I guess that might be part of the reason.

The main thing is that there is an incredible problem for farmers, who are in a precarious state at present. One local man said,

“The price we get has risen.”

That is the beef price, which is good at the minute. Lamb prices are not too bad, either. The hon. Member for City of Chester referred to poultry and eggs. Egg prices are under pressure; they are not matching the outgoings and are not sustainable. There is an onus on supermarkets to give a better price to egg producers. I am fortunate that I start every day with two eggs. Dame Angela, you are probably of the generation who remembers

“Go to work on an egg.”

I go to work on two eggs every morning, and would do that during the day, as well. I say that because of the importance of the egg sector. I thank the hon. Gentleman for mentioning that.

That local man said,

“The price has risen but the money in our pocket has not.”

One of the greatest farm economists, Mark Berrisford-Smith of HSBC, has suggested that we are now in a position reminiscent of 1973, with the OPEC crisis and the Yom Kippur war. In 1975, we saw up to 25% inflation resulting from our inability to deal with the quadrupling oil prices. There was some encouragement in the press yesterday—if it is correct—that the price of filling a car may fall by £10. I hope that is right, and the cost keeps on reducing. We need that help.

Our farmers are facing long-term problems, and now is not the time to pull back on support. Indeed, it is the time to step it up. We need to sustain and help our farmers at this present time. Our farmers are not able to fill the breach from Ukraine and Russia—it is impossible; the gap is too large—but we need to look at how to help them. To be able to fill the gap, they need support. We need to be raising new generations of farmers who are trained in the old ways and who also want to push for the new ways that enhance production and the environmental protections, providing the best of both worlds. I am a great believer in the need for farmers to protect the land and have environmental schemes in place. I know the Minister is as well. There is a balancing job to do between the two. There is land that perhaps should be in farming, and there are some concerns about some projects by some of the bigger charities, for instance the National Trust, who want to set land aside and not use it for farming. I do not want to be critical, but I make that point. That is sometimes not the right way to do it.

The impact of the Ukraine and Russia war has been large and it will continue. This House, this Minister, our Government and ourselves as MPs on behalf of our constituents must play our part in the short term, as well as the long term.

Freedom of Religion or Belief: International Conference

Debate between Margaret Ferrier and Jim Shannon

Tuesday 28th June 2022 Westminster Hall

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

I congratulate the hon. Member for Congleton (Fiona Bruce) on bringing forward the debate. She is a dear friend and colleague, and I am pleased to see her in such a prominent role for our Government and those with Christian and other beliefs across the world. It is very pleasurable for me to be involved in a debate alongside the hon. Lady. The debate will be a milestone for the UK, as we look forward to the international conference, to which the hon. Lady referred.

As chair of the APPG for international freedom of religion or belief, I declare a keen interest in this issue, and it will probably be no surprise that the matter is very close to my heart. Indeed, every Thursday in the main Chamber—if God spares me—I ask the Leader of the House a question that relates to religious belief. He always responds in a positive fashion, and it is encouraging to have a response like that from the Leader of the House. We stand up for those with Christian beliefs, those with other beliefs and those with no belief.

The hon. Lady referred to some of the visits that the APPG has made in the past few years, including to Pakistan, Iraq, Jordan, Lebanon and Egypt. Last week, we went to Nigeria. Also present is the hon. Member for Argyll and Bute (Brendan O’Hara), who is another dear friend of mine, because we share many of the same interests in human rights and protecting religious beliefs. He, I and other Members recently visited Nigeria, which I will speak about as I progress through my speech. It is a pleasure to speak up.

The hon. Lady referred to Ukrainians. The APPG visited Poland a wee while ago to encourage the Polish Government and people to continue to help Ukrainian refugees, but also to reiterate our support for them. In many cases, Ukrainian refugees have been put out of their homes, victimised and brutalised, and their relatives have been murdered. Those things are real for us, and we speak up for the Muslims, the Sikhs, the Hindus, the Shi’as, the Sunnis, the Baha’is, and the Jehovah’s Witnesses in Russia—where they are persecuted—and on behalf of our stakeholders as well.

[Margaret Ferrier (Rutherglen and Hamilton West) (Ind)]

Hosting the conference is a privilege. Does the hon. Member agree that if we are to continue being a role model in freedom of religion or belief, we should be doing more to recognise and help the persecuted elsewhere, such as the Uyghurs, who are facing genocide by the People’s Republic of China?

[Jim Shannon]

I certainly do. The hon. Lady always makes very pertinent points in her interventions, and I thank her. I will speak about the Uyghurs shortly.

I am a Christian and, in this country, I have the right to go to church as and when I like. That should not be a privilege; it should be a right, but for some it is not. We are all born with a capacity to have a relationship with God, and we should be free to exercise or choose not to exercise that ability accordingly. That is at the heart of who we are as humans, but that freedom and birth right is not the reality for millions of people around the world, which is why the hon. Member for Congleton secured today’s debate. Many of us are motivated to be here on behalf of those people and their right to hold a faith, practise it, and freely change it if they wish to do so.

In a world of increasing division and hostility, I am glad to say that those of us who work to promote freedom of religion or belief in this House work across political divides and from a host of different faith and belief backgrounds. We put differences aside to recognise the similarities that unite us—similarities that are unfortunately disregarded and derided by extremists in other countries, and sometimes by extremists in this country. Yesterday I talked to one of my fellow MPs, who told me that she had been at a family event in the United Kingdom just this week and had been surrounded by a number of activists who publicly derided her and her staff in a way that was completely unacceptable. I feel for her.

May I say how pleased I am to see the hon. Member for Leeds North East (Fabian Hamilton) in his place? I look forward to his comments. I am also pleased to see the Minister in her place. We thank her for answering our questions.

As chair of the APPG, I was in Nigeria last month with the hon. Member for Argyll and Bute in order to witness at first hand the devastating impact of living in a country with ongoing FORB violations. We had wanted to visit Nigeria for some time, because it is in the top 10 on the world watch list for those who are persecuted because of their beliefs. It was an emotional trip because it gave us the chance to see the issues at first hand and to understand what needs to be done to help those with Christian and other beliefs in Nigeria. We had a chance to visit some of the camps for internally displaced people. Some people had been there for seven or eight years. We have ideas for how we can progress that, and for how Nigeria needs to progress it too. We wanted to visit the north-east of Nigeria, where most of the persecution from Boko Haram and ISIS is taking place, but we could not because of the security situation—we understood that—so we did probably the next best thing: we brought representatives of the Churches and so on to meet us in Abuja in Nigeria, where we had a chance to hear from them at first hand.

There are lots of things that need to be done. I will make some comments at the end of my speech, and I hope the Minister will respond to them. In Nigeria, an average of 13 Christians are killed each day due to religiously motivated attacks. The Sunday after we returned, 50 of our Roman Catholic brothers and sisters were murdered in an attack, which made our visit to Nigeria all the more poignant. We focused on those issues, but for such a vicious, brutal, violent attack to take place just afterwards was hard to comprehend.

The total death toll among people worldwide persecuted for their faith or belief must be harrowing. Such facts must lead to a renewed commitment to ensure freedom of religion or belief for all, and to implement policies to make the dream of peace a reality. I hope that the international ministerial conference on freedom of religion or belief will prompt a sharp shift in the degree of urgency—the hon. Member for Congleton referred to that—and fervour that this Government and others give to promoting to freedom of religion or belief. This is a time for leaders across the world, in all countries, to make real commitments to the wider international community and play their part in promoting freedom of religion or belief for all.

I am keen to hear what the Government will announce at the ministerial conference. Will they finally prioritise in the resettlement scheme those in Afghanistan who are at risk due to their faith or belief, rather than waiting until next year to give them priority and secure their safety? Will they do more to cut their ties with China, which the hon. Member for Rutherglen and Hamilton West (Margaret Ferrier) referred to, due to its abhorrent treatment of the Uyghurs? We all deplore that; we can never understand how anyone can hate somebody so much. Will the UK use its relationship with Commonwealth countries to put an end to harmful blasphemy laws that are still in place? I am ever mindful that those countries make the decision, but blasphemy laws are used in a malicious, vindictive and clearly secular way against some people. Or might the Government stipulate, for instance, that aid or trade with a country should be contingent on an improved state of freedom of religion or belief for all? There is so much good that could be done, and so many across the world are waiting from it.

The hon. Member for Rother Valley (Alexander Stafford), who is no longer in his place, asked about the Truro review. We need the three-year progress review, but that does not mean that other work should stop; we need it to continue. We need the focus that the hon. Member for Congleton referred to. We need the manifesto commitment delivered, and we need the Truro report recommendations to be delivered in full. That is the hon. Lady’s ask; it is mine too, and I hope it is that of other hon. Members.

As Ministers and freedom of religion or belief leaders convene across the way at the Queen Elizabeth II Centre for the two-day ministerial conference, I will be praying, as I do every morning, that a positive change comes from those efforts. I also hope that a lot of noise will be made about FORB, and that politicians in this country take note. It cannot go unnoticed that the APPG has 160 members. It is not a numbers game; it is about the interest that MPs and lords individually have in these matters. We are very pleased that our stakeholders represent many religious groups—it is important that they do. We speak up for those with Christian beliefs, those with Muslim beliefs and the Bahaʼis. We do that across the world all the time.

Across the two days there will be a host of events in Parliament as part of the FORB fringe conference. I encourage all my fellow MPs to attend and participate. I come to most of these debates because of my interest in the subject, but I come to other debates to support other Members’ issues, because it is important to encourage each other where we can.

The events, which will be sponsored by a range of non-governmental organisations and charities—I will be meeting Lord Ahmad and the Pakistan religious minorities this week, or certainly next week—will promote freedom of religious belief internationally, and they will cover a range of FORB topics, from country-specific challenges and thematic issues pertaining to FORB to what is being done to ensure FORB for all. We need to look at what needs to be done as well. There will be over 30 events in Parliament altogether, which indicates the interest. If those who have an interest wish to attend, they will have plenty of choice. There is no excuse for Members not to find at least one event that piques their interest. We all have a part to play in promoting FORB for all, and the time to play that part is now.

Many of us in the Chamber will be aware of the biblical reference to the mustard seed. I know that the faith of a mustard seed is enough to move mountains, and I know that so many communities and individuals around the world persevere in their faith or belief in the face of unbelievable brutality. Their ongoing bravery and courage is more impressive than moving mountains.

Homes for Ukraine: Child Refugees

Debate between Margaret Ferrier and Jim Shannon

Wednesday 22nd June 2022 Westminster Hall

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

As always, Mr Davies, it is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship. I apologise, but I have to leave early to chair another meeting; I have already spoken to the Minister, the shadow Minister—the hon. Member for Luton North (Sarah Owen)—and the sponsor of the debate, the hon. Member for Hampstead and Kilburn (Tulip Siddiq).

This is a very important debate on an issue that has proven to be very close to everyone’s heart. Those who have already spoken have expressed as much, and they have also spoken of their support for those from Ukraine who are in need. Those who will speak after me will reiterate that, too.

Russia’s attacks on Ukraine have been condemned by all of the free world, and by many who feel greatly anguished at the stories they witness—the destruction of property, the changing of lives, and the bestial and indiscriminate attacks carried out on families, including women and children. It is those people trying to flee who we wish to help. The Minister has a compassionate heart and he understands these issues. We spoke beforehand and I am sure that we will be encouraged by his response. Having also been in contact with him previously, I am pleased by what I have heard, including on what will happen afterwards.

I commend the hon. Member for Hampstead and Kilburn on securing this debate. She has a really big heart—she might be small in stature, but she is big in heart—and she brings forward things that we all support. I commend her on her stance and for giving us all the opportunity to participate in this debate, and wish her well in all she does. I was very disheartened to hear of her constituent, Mark Falcon, who, for the reasons she has outlined, has been denied the opportunity to take in two Ukrainian refugees through the Homes for Ukraine scheme. We must do more to ensure that protections are in place for child refugees; they should simply not be turned away. There was some good news in the papers this morning, which I read before I came to the Chamber: a 17-year-old has been able to get her access and come across, even though she has waited for some time in limbo—in that grey area—for that to happen.

My constituency of Strangford has taken in a number of Ukrainian refugees, and I thank Donald and Jacqueline Fleming from the Faith in Action group, who have enabled other refugees, including young people, to find homes in Northern Ireland. Five or six weeks ago, I had the opportunity to go to Poland, along with other MPs, to see that country’s contribution to the refugee crisis. It was a very poignant moment, because I had the opportunity to see, at the coalface, the refugees coming through to Poland. At one of the centres we visited, there were 2,800 refugees, including lots of young families. The desperation—the look on their faces—told us that these were groups of people under great pressure.

I put on record that our Government have helped. There has been a bit of a hold-up in the process and some things to address, but I am encouraged by the news this morning regarding 1,000 unaccompanied minors who had previously been left in limbo because the Homes for Ukraine scheme required young people to travel. I understand that the Government are changing that. I am sure that the Minister will confirm that; I think that the hon. Member for Hampstead and Kilburn herself referred to it earlier. If that change is coming, which I think it is, then this debate has enabled it to happen and again we thank the hon. Lady for that.

[Margaret Ferrier (Rutherglen and Hamilton West) (Ind)]

My team and I spent months advocating on behalf of a 15-year-old girl who was travelling with her aunt before I managed to get the Minister for Refugees to make an intervention to grant her a visa by exception. I will welcome whatever announcement comes from the Government today, but does the hon. Member agree that it could have been made a bit earlier, to reduce the distress for other children who are stuck in Ukraine and other countries and are trying to get to safety here?

[Jim Shannon]

I thank the hon. Lady for her intervention. She is absolutely right and confirms the very issue that we are discussing. There has been much distress for those families who are in the pipeline of coming through, and the quicker the announcement is made and the quicker the legislative change comes, the quicker that we can do away with all those issues.

I am a strong advocate for offering support—both financial and humanitarian—in times of need. It is one of my jobs here and it is also one of my portfolios. I take sincere pride in my constituency of Strangford. We have a history of taking in those who need refuge. Ballyrolly House on the Woburn Road in Millisle in Strangford operated as a refugee resettlement farm from 1938 to 1948 for the Kindertransport children. Lord Dubs has already been referred to. We have a really physical part of history in that house, and some of those people who came from 1938 to 1948 stayed there. Indeed, some of their descendants still live locally.

The story of the farm in Millisle remains a little-known tale outside of its locality. In the 1930s, Jewish children escaping persecution in Europe came to live on the remote farm in the Ards peninsula. Children on the farm would play football with the locals or go swimming at Millisle beach. Occasionally, they would even hire a rowing boat and spend the evenings fishing for herrings, which were in plentiful supply along the edge of the Irish sea and in Strangford lough as well.

Those are some of the things that my ancestors and others did to help the Kindertransport children, to help the Jewish children, back in the period from 1938 to 1948. Today, our country—the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland—is doing its best to do the same thing again for other children.

I believe that we all have a responsibility to ensure that all refugees are protected. There must be more of an onus on us to help children, as they are much more vulnerable than adults. Again, our hearts go out to the small children. Whatever the reason—perhaps it is because we are adults or because we have a compassionate nature and a big heart—we do reach out to the children. Northern Ireland and the United Kingdom have given refuge before in times of need.

It is disheartening to see young children being sent back to Ukraine for reasons that should have been checked by the Home Office prior to their arrival. If we are correcting that issue, it is good news, but it does not do away with the distress that the hon. Member for Rutherglen and Hamilton West (Margaret Ferrier) referred to. That distress is still very real, but let us lessen it.

We must ensure that there is due diligence in searching and assessing the homes used in the Homes for Ukraine scheme, so that people are guaranteed a safe environment for the six months that they are there. I know the reasons why the safety checks are done. We all agree on that, because it is the right thing to do.

We also must ensure that those who have applied to take in refugees are vetted and undergo police checks so as to ensure refugee safety. If homes are assessed and people vetted, I see no reason why Mark Falcon, who was referred to earlier, could not have taken in the two refugees, despite one being under 18. I understand that there may have been concerns in regard to her age, but she was with her elder sister, which should probably have given a wee bit more protection. Perhaps the Home Office should have seen that right away. I for one agree that, without a doubt, she would have been better off here, despite those concerns.

We must treat those in war in the same way as we would expect to be treated back. I am a great believer, as is everyone in this House, in treating others as we would wish them to treat us. That is not a bad way of looking on life and doing things in the right way.

To conclude, the Homes for Ukraine scheme is a fantastic way to provide solace and refuge, of which 28,000 people have already availed. The work to provide safe environments must be done before refugees arrive. It is simply not fair to provide hope but to then send children away due to their age. Let us give them the protection they need, and let us make sure that the changes that have been mooted today come about. As long as we have followed the regulations and safety checks to as high a standard as possible, we should—indeed, we must—rethink the process that is preventing the most vulnerable children from receiving the protection they need in this country. We welcome them here, and we look forward to them being here and to giving them the hope for the future that they very much need.

FCDO Diplomatic Staff: Funding Levels

Debate between Margaret Ferrier and Jim Shannon

Tuesday 24th May 2022 Westminster Hall

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

It is an absolute pleasure to speak in this debate, Ms Bardell. It was a pleasure to hear the right hon. Member for Walsall South (Valerie Vaz) put forward her case. She asked me last week whether I would be here; I said, “Does night follow day? Yes, of course I will.” I am very pleased to participate. The right hon. Lady made some good points about the diplomatic staff in the Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office, which I concur with. We should put on record our thanks to all the staff; I know I have conveyed those thanks on many occasions to this Minister and other Ministers, but we could not survive or do many of the things we do if it was not for the interpretation of events by those staff, and I want to speak a wee bit about that.

I also want to comment on the right hon. Lady’s reference to the progress that diplomatic staff made in the Northern Ireland political process—the right people were in the right place at the right time with the right attitude. Many diplomatic staff were part of that; they were maybe not household names, but they were behind the Mitchells of this world, Prime Minister Tony Blair and Clinton. Many others made it happen, and we should never underestimate the good work that these people do.

As chair of the all-party parliamentary group for international freedom of religion or belief, I want to sow into the debate the importance of diplomatic staff being aware of all the issues. When it comes to the Minister, I know that I am pushing at an open door, because she always comes back to me. I watch her in the Chamber, and I know she understands this issue really well, but just for Hansard and for the record, I would like some understanding of where it features.

This July there will be an international ministerial conference on freedom of religion and belief, headed by the FCDO. That shows a real commitment from Government and Ministers, including the Prime Minister, to this issue. I am very hopeful about the conference, and I will play a small role in it, but I give credit to the hon. Member for Congleton (Fiona Bruce), who has been very active in this matter. The conference will provide an opportunity to cast a light on the good work that the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland does to promote freedom of religion or belief for all, and on what can and should be done by all countries everywhere to protect this fundamental human right. The Government’s sponsoring, helping and promoting of the conference in July will help to do that and show the good things that the FCDO does across the world. The invitation list includes people from all countries across the world, which will energise the conference and be to the benefit of everyone.

One area of impact is each state’s diplomatic service. All too often, freedom of religion or belief is considered a peripheral concern to human rights or a humanitarian crisis in a given country, rather than integral to achieving not only a country’s strategic objectives but the overall state of freedom. As long as states fail to understand the centrality of freedom of religion or belief in the wider political context, and fail to give full exterior support and backing in diplomatic circles, stable Governments and peaceful co-existence will remain a far-off dream.

Just this morning there was a news story about China. There is an evidential base documenting China’s suppression of the Uyghurs. That goes as far up as the President of China himself. I know we try to do things diplomatically, but sometimes we have to be critical of what other Governments do. We need to be critical of China, as we are of many other countries across the world. This is an example of the Chinese Government failing to look after their minorities—not just the Uyghurs but Christians, whose churches are destroyed or who are unable to worship. Members of the Falun Gong, a small religious sect in China, are not able to express their views in the way they should. There is the systematic removal of organs of Falun Gong members and many others who just happen to have a different opinion from the state. Those are the things that the FCDO highlights across the world and that FCDO diplomats and officials have a responsibility to highlight.

[Margaret Ferrier]

A constituent who works for the FCDO in East Kilbride wrote to me. He is unbelievably stressed about the rising cost of living and his minimal annual pay award, and he tells me that he may be forced to leave his job. Does the hon. Member agree that tightening the budget impacts not only on frontline diplomatic services, but on everything that FCDO officials do behind the scenes to make things work?

[Jim Shannon]

I thank the hon. Lady for, as always, bringing very wise words to the debate. Yes, it is important that staff are remunerated in such a way that they can continue to do the job. I often think that diplomatic staff are perhaps called to it as a vocation because they have a really deep interest in the subject matter. But any person who does any job deserves to be remunerated correctly. I thank the hon. Lady for that point.

It is vital also that diplomatic staff in the FCDO receive adequate funding so that key elements of its work do not suffer. Corners must not be cut; the service will suffer and be reduced. For example, the highest level of training for desk officers comes at a price. We do not produce great officers and great staff on a low budget or a low wage. And when they come with the quality that we have, there is good reason to spend the money on their training. It is through that bespoke training, not through complacency on religious literacy, that British diplomacy can truly lead the way in promoting democracy and the rule of law. I believe that soft power has a really strong role to play; I am talking about the soft power that the FCDO staff display in their engagement. I wanted to mention that as well, because I think it is really important.

The issues where we need this diplomacy range from the heartbreaking advance of the Taliban in Afghanistan and neighbouring countries’ responses, through to Russia’s use of the Orthodox Church in its own soft diplomacy. I have watched that happen in a very perverse way, if I can say that, because I think the way it does it is wrong. The fact that the Ukrainian and Russian Christian Orthodox Churches have divided themselves and the Ukrainian Church has come away from the Russian Orthodox Church tells me that many of the churches and priests are unhappy with what is happening.

We need diplomats who understand the intricacies of these situations and are literate in religion, so that Britain can be relevant in resolving today’s conflicts. I am always greatly amazed and encouraged by what the staff do. That is why, in my role as chair of the all-party parliamentary group for international freedom of religion or belief, I urge our Government to consider religious literacy training as a top priority for funding when it comes to considering the FCDO spending levels. We need diplomats who understand religion, so may we have an assurance from the Minister that that training will take place among our diplomatic staff, and that it will be a priority? I understand that the Government have given it a priority, along with other things, but I think it is important that we know that our role as the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland is a role that can help to resolve problems across the world.

We need diplomats who understand the centrality of religion and belief to geopolitical dynamics, international security and overall governmental stability. It is really important that we get this right, and that we then can portray it across the world. And if we want our diplomats and civil servants to advance freedom of religion or belief for all, and therefore contribute coherently to the overall human rights situation in any given country, we need to ensure that the training of civil servants in freedom of religion or belief is funded adequately. I should perhaps say that I have been on the road since half-past 3 in the morning, so my voice may be a wee bit dry after the plane flight.

I receive regular emails on this matter each week. Many of my constituents follow the issue daily and weekly, and they contact me about it, so I seek from the Government and from the Minister an assurance that there is a commitment to these standards, and that these roles will continue to be key roles for the FCDO across the whole world.

I conclude by acknowledging that this is merely one of the many demands on the FCDO budget. I understand that we are constrained by moneys and we cannot expect to spend moneys ad infinitum, but whenever we see something good that can deliver for us, it is money well spent; that is how I look at it. It is no surprise that we want more, not less, funding for the key roles that our diplomats play. It is vital that the Government fund their work sufficiently, so that they may be an asset to our country and to our promotion of human rights and democracy abroad.

As the world becomes increasingly Zoom-friendly, feet on the streets, building relationships and face-to-face contacts are important. During the two years of covid, Zoom meetings were a useful way of contacting people, but they were never ideal. It is nice to come and see people again and shake hands. We have events across our constituencies, as I did last night, and it is nice to shake hands and press the flesh. It is important to do that, so face-to-face contact, shaking hands and having a meal and a chat are really important, as is taking time to understand the culture and nuances that can be understood only by living somewhere and not doing it from a distance.

It is essential that we retain our diplomats in the right places and invest in a support structure for them that reaps benefits for international relations and the strengthening of relationships. With that in mind, I fully support what the right hon. Member for Walsall South has said. It is important, and we look to the Minister for an adequate response to our concerns.

Dialysis Care Outcomes

Debate between Margaret Ferrier and Jim Shannon

Thursday 19th May 2022 Westminster Hall

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

I beg to move,

That this House has considered dialysis care outcomes.

I thank you for chairing this debate, Sir George, and thank those who are here to participate—they are colleagues, but also friends. I am pleased to see the shadow Minister, the hon. Member for Enfield North (Feryal Clark), in her place and am especially pleased to see the Minister in her place, too. I am not being condescending when I say that; I am encouraged because the Minister understands the issues very well. I look forward to her response—no pressure, Minister. We are pleased to have this opportunity.

I thank our guests in the Gallery, particularly Fiona Loud, who has been instrumental, through me, in achieving this Westminster Hall debate. I thank the Backbench Business Committee for allowing the debate. I applied for it some time ago, but the Queen’s Speech meant that those applications to the Committee fell. It was originally supposed to take place on the Thursday before recess, but we are having it at the same time, 3 o’clock, as it would have happened on that day.

Dialysis is an important issue to raise, especially at this time of rising daily costs that directly impact people who choose to receive their treatment in their own home. In a question to the Prime Minister yesterday, the right hon. and learned Member for Holborn and St Pancras (Keir Starmer) referred to Phoenix Halliwell and the cost for those receiving dialysis treatment at home. There might have been a bit of confusion around how the question was asked and how the answer came through—I know that others will speak to that—but it pinpoints a key issue for this debate, which is the impact of the cost of electric and energy on people receiving dialysis treatment at home. That is of particular concern to me and others at this time of rising costs. There are global pressures on the price of energy. This is not a debate on energy, but on what is happening to those who have dialysis treatment.

It is not just adults who are affected by this issue. Fiona and I spoke to the Minister beforehand; we appreciate that very much. It seems that not every postcode covers children. Local providers have discretion as to whether they reimburse the utility costs for children. I know that Fiona, who I spoke to beforehand, is concerned about that, and I certainly am. One person who contacted us said that her son has been on peritoneal dialysis since January. It used to cost £115 per month for combined usage, but it is now up to £350—a massive increase of 220%.

Although this debate covers a health issue, it also focuses on the predicaments of those people in the health system. We need to review that and think about it again, so that we can understand it better. It is important for those we are concerned about that we understand where the pressures are—financial pressures are coming from all sides.

Others will refer to this, but even on the warmest day of the year—we experienced the highest temperature of the year on Wednesday—a person receiving dialysis will feel cold. Cold weather puts even greater pressures on household energy costs, but people who receive dialysis at home are being very adversely affected by rising fuel and heating costs. I will refer to that later, but I wanted to put those two issues on the record. They have been brought to my attention and are of deep concern.

I know that this is not the Minister’s responsibility, but I will give some facts from Northern Ireland, where attempts are made for every patient to be given approval to receive dialysis at home at first. It does not always happen, because sometimes patients are sent to the renal department at the Ulster Hospital, which is my nearest hospital and which I have visited on a number of occasions over the years.

Analysis by the UK Renal Registry showed the rate of home dialysis in areas of deprivation at the end of 2020. Unfortunately, however, there was no data available for patients treated in Scotland. My colleagues and friends from Scotland may have some figures. Overall, the rate of home therapy was lower for patients from the more deprived areas of England, Northern Ireland and Wales. In England, 22.9% of patients in the least deprived areas were able to access home dialysis, compared with 15% in the most deprived areas. The rate of home dialysis for patients in Northern Ireland was 7.2% in the least deprived areas, whereas it was 9.8% in the most deprived areas. I am alarmed at these figures. If someone has a certain amount of income, it means that they have to pay for their energy. However, someone who is deprived is under pressure to ensure that the energy, electric and heating levels in their house are at a certain level, so the impact on those in deprived areas is much greater than it is anywhere else.

Those from lower socioeconomic backgrounds are affected by renal failure in the same way as anybody else, but they do not have equal access to home dialysis and the freedom that that choice offers. I look to the Minister, as I always do, for a positive response on how we can take things forward constructively in a way that can deliver for dialysis treatment patients across this great United Kingdom. We need to address this issue on a UK-wide basis, and greater equality must be achieved. I am my party’s health spokesperson, so it is always a pleasure to speak in these debates and to highlight issues that are brought to my attention by people such as my friend Fiona Loud from Kidney Care UK.

Kidney disease costs the NHS more than breast, lung, colon and skin cancer combined. It has a greater financial impact. It is estimated to cost £1.4 billion a year—equivalent to £1 in every £77 of NHS expenditure. That is a massive figure and a significant expense, with 21 people developing kidney failure every day and almost 30,000 people on dialysis in the UK. Unfortunately, it shows no signs of slowing.

[Margaret Ferrier (Rutherglen and Hamilton West) (Ind)]

Acute kidney injuries usually come about as a complication from another illness, and they are more deadly than a heart attack. As the hon. Gentleman said, research indicates that about 30% of acute kidney injury deaths could be prevented with better care or treatment. Does he agree that this is an area that requires urgent attention, looking at kidney disease outcomes in the round?

[Jim Shannon]

I thank the hon. Lady for those wise words, and I absolutely agree with her. She is right. We should never be guided entirely by finance, but we cannot ignore the financial implications. If we—by which I mean the NHS—could better use the moneys for early intervention, early diagnosis and early medical action, and reduce the cost, that would be beneficial to the NHS.

The clinical and cost benefits of home dialysis are well established, but despite 17 years having passed since the National Institute for Health and Care Excellence first highlighted its ambition for just 15% of patients to take advantage of home haemodialysis, as many as eight out of 10 dialysis patients are still treated in centre. That is a big challenge, but it is something I believe in, and I am confident that the Minister can embrace that challenge and give us some idea of how we can move forward in a positive fashion to deliver even better.

Some of those people will have successful transplants, although a transplant is only a form of treatment, not a cure. I have a particular interest in this matter because I have a nephew called Peter Shannon, born with a kidney the size of a peanut, or the wee nail on my finger. I remember when my boys were running about—obviously, young boys or young girls are always full of life, but he never had the energy. He was always a terrible colour—yellow, the colour of a bowl of custard—and he never really moved forward physically until he had a transplant at the age of 16. When he had that transport, his life transformed; if only that were possible for everybody, but it is not. I have been a great supporter of organ transplants all my life, and I am very pleased that the Government accepted the legislative change to make everybody a donor unless they opt out. I was always in favour of that legislation. In Northern Ireland, my party —the Democratic Unionist party—had perhaps not truly embraced it in the past, but it has now. I cannot say I am a pioneer in the party, but I am pleased that that legislation has also been endorsed by the Northern Ireland Assembly.

Many other dialysis patients will have no choice but to dialyse to replace their kidney function and to stay alive. The majority will do so three times a week at a hospital or clinic, every week for the rest of their lives, because once a patient starts dialysis, they are on it forever unless they receive a transplant. Across this United Kingdom there are nearly 30,000 people, from young to old, on dialysis. They come from all walks of life and are united by a remarkable strength and resilience to continue with this long-term, gruelling, life-saving medical treatment.

When dialysis is needed, in an ideal world the patient and their care team will consider and decide together whether to dialyse at home or in-centre. There are two forms of home dialysis therapy, with haemodialysis being the most common. Tubes are attached to needles in the arm or via a line to the neck, with blood passing through an external machine that filters the toxins and water from the blood before returning it to the body—it is almost like a cleansing process, but medically. Suitable patients can safely undertake that procedure themselves at home, carrying out sessions that meet their clinical needs to a routine that fits their lifestyle, including overnight while they sleep. In peritoneal dialysis, which is the other form of therapy, a catheter is placed into part of the abdomen via a surgical procedure.

Since its introduction in the 1960s, most dialysis care is delivered in-centre, with patients required to travel to a hospital three times a week for four hours of treatment. Many patients who dialyse in-centre benefit from the care of the UK’s excellent nephrologists, nurses and support staff, and from a sense of community with others receiving dialysis. However, that treatment is more intense over a shorter period of time, which might not suit everybody. It can be extremely draining, and it often leaves patients feeling physically exhausted as the body is pushed so hard during those treatments, and their toxin and fluid levels build up again immediately while they face a long wait until their next dialysis session. As a result, those patients must adhere to strict fluid and diet restrictions, and they must also travel to and from their dialysis centre, which is a time-consuming and often exhausting experience.

I visited the dialysis renal unit at Ulster Hospital in Dundonald some time ago. It is a new centre, and I met many of the people there. I knew two of those people personally. One was Billy McIlroy, who passed a few years ago. He went there for his dialysis treatment three days a week, which I know kept him alive. Another guy called David Johnson also attended that dialysis unit. He got a kidney transplant eventually, so his life changed greatly. I had already been given the details of what happens in dialysis, but actually seeing it showed the reality—it gave a physical understanding—of what those people were going through three times a week. For them, travelling from home and going home again was six hours of their day.

[Margaret Ferrier]

On that point, the impact of kidney disease and treatment on patients’ mental health is huge. Good mental wellbeing can make a big difference to a patient’s recovery and ability to withstand difficult treatment. Does the hon. Gentleman agree that ensuring patients have access to mental health support is paramount to improving outcomes, and that the NHS must be better resourced to provide that?

[Jim Shannon]

I thank the hon. Lady for reminding us all of that. We often focus on the physical aspects of this condition, as we should, but we must also remember the mental health and anxiety issues that come alongside it. Patients suffer with uncertainty about how they are going to feel the next day, uncertainty about their future health, and uncertainty about their personal and financial issues and their family. The hon. Lady is right to remind us of that point.

By comparison, home dialysis therapies offer flexibility and have been shown to have a positive effect on a patient’s health. When patients dialyse more regularly, they are more effectively replicating the natural function of the kidneys. Studies have shown that longer, more frequent dialysis sessions, undertaken at a schedule of the patient’s own choosing, achieve better results than a thrice-weekly in-centre schedule. People doing alternate-day dialysis have been shown to experience fewer symptoms, such as shortness of breath, high blood pressure and left ventricular heart damage. People on home haemo- dialysis have an up to 13% lower risk of death than those on in-centre haemodialysis. That shows that if people can do more home treatment, we can improve their longevity. NHS England has acknowledged the limitations of standard in-centre haemodialysis, and in particular the increased risk of hospitalisation or death after the weekly two-day break between in-centre sessions.

The hon. Member for Rutherglen and Hamilton West (Margaret Ferrier) is right about the importance of mental health. Depression is the most prevalent psychiatric illness in patients with end-stage kidney disease, and she made that point powerfully. One study shows that rates within the dialysis population vary from 22.8% to 39.3%. Wow—those are big figures, and they show what the condition does. Studies have also shown that depression is a significant predictor of mortality in dialysis patients. That is particularly important for younger people on dialysis, who report a lower quality of life than young adults in general.

People who have the choice of dialysing for as long as they need and at a time of their choice have freedom and control. They can also better respond to their body’s reaction at that time, in the comfort of their home and with the reassurance of their family around them. Home treatment probably addresses some of the issues of depression and mental health issues as well. It enables patients to have a life outside their dialysis schedule and hold down a job. It allows them to have a normal life and pursue the dreams and ambitions that should be the right of any person, young or old. I can attest to that through my nephew, Peter Shannon, who has had an organ transplant. I have seen his life change. He bought his first house just last week, incidentally, at probably the highest time for house prices in the whole United Kingdom.

In the last 18 months, covid-19 has exaggerated the negative impact of differences in dialysis care, and heightened the need radically to increase home therapy provision. Analysis from the UK Renal Registry has demonstrated that the relative risk of death associated with covid-19 among in-centre dialysis patients was much higher than that of the general population in England, especially among those of a younger age.

The UK kidney community has been calling for patients to be provided with greater choice in their dialysis care, recognising the need for increased awareness and education around home therapies and greater equity of access across the country. In the UK, however, the overall percentage of dialysis patients receiving home therapies has increased only from 3.4% in 2011 to 7% in 2022. Although that has doubled, it is a long way off the figure of 15%. It needs to double again, and I think, respectfully, that the Government should set a higher target.

In 2021, the NHS’s Getting It Right First Time programme recommended that a minimum of 20% of patients in every dialysis centre should be on home dialysis. It set that target, and NHS England’s Renal Services Transformation Programme is working to increase the provision of and access to home therapies, in line with recommendations made by Getting It Right First Time.

Although there are dialysis centres exceeding the target, which we welcome—it is not all negative; many are trying to achieve those targets and goals—GIRFT’s own report highlighted that 33 out of 52 centres in England have not yet met the target. Again, I respectfully ask the Minister—she knows I do this constructively; I just want to get the stats so that we can understand the problems and how to do things better—to tell us what has been done to increase the number of those 33 out of 52 centres that have not yet reached the target. The Getting It Right First Time target of a 20% prevalence rate for home dialysis compared to in-centre care could be transformative for patients, and could deliver considerable cost savings for the NHS at a time when they are desperately needed. We can do the treatment better, deliver the medication and dialysis better, and we can do it for a better price. That seems to me to be good value.

To address adequately the low uptake of home care, a review of dialysis reimbursement should take place to ensure that training and educational needs can be met, and to incentivise higher frequency dialysis at home, such as alternate day treatments to support all dialysis centres to meet the 20% target. What steps are the Government taking to reach that 20% target? It is essential that clinicians are offered the tools needed for them to meet the GIRFT targets in an effective manner, such as providing staff and patients with detailed, unbiased education to empower them to make informed decisions about their dialysis. I see it—as I often do—as a partnership, with clinicians working alongside Government policy and patients to do better.

One of the most pressing issues facing people who receive treatment at home rather than in hospital is the rising cost of fuel and energy. I referred to that at the beginning, and there are three points that I wanted to make. People receiving dialysis at home are at particular risk from rising energy costs. The figures that I cited, and the question asked by the Leader of the Opposition at yesterday’s PMQs, gives an indication of the issue. There seems to be an uncertainty, and perhaps a postcode lottery, as to where there is help for energy costs, but the figure that I gave of £118 per month for a child, or whatever it is, but that now costs £350, indicates that there is a way to go yet. Dialysis machines, with their high energy consumption, keep people alive. Dialysis treatment at home adds between £593 and £1,454 to utility costs per year, and that is before this year’s 54% energy bill rise.

One effect of dialysis treatment is that many patients frequently feel cold due to the associated anaemia and the process of dialysis, so they need to heat their homes more often and for longer during the year. When we feel warm, they feel cold. When we feel exceedingly warm, they might feel normal. There are not many times in the year in this great United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland when we have Mediterranean heatwaves, so for the dialysis patient, feeling cold is almost an everyday occurrence. We do not want people to have to decide between giving up the freedom and independence that home dialysis gives them, and going into a hospital setting just to save costs. Again, I ask the Minister urgently to address that matter, because the barriers to employment for people on dialysis, posed by frequency and length of treatment, and the physical toll and intense fatigue, already compound financial insecurity for home dialysis patients.

The NHS service specification advises that NHS trusts reimburse the additional costs of home dialysis, but reimbursement is inconsistent across the country, and many patients receive no or very little financial support to pay for the additional costs of treatment. For most home dialysis patients, the £200 repayable relief on energy bills and council tax deduction will simply not be enough, and a special, specific provision is needed. It is regrettable that the spring statement was a missed opportunity for the UK dialysis community. Consistent reimbursement, longer-term capped tariffs for vulnerable groups and immediate financial support are urgently needed. Again, I look to the Health Minister and the discussions that she has with her Secretary of State for Health, and ultimately with the Chancellor, to ensure that we can deliver extra, specific financial help for those on dialysis treatment.

Many in the kidney community feel that their voices have been unheard in Westminster for too long, and when a friend from the kidney charity asked me to secure this debate, I was very pleased to do so. I think that today’s debate does two things. It raises awareness—that is No. 1—but it also directly asks the Minister to become involved and address some of the anomalies. I welcome the re-establishment of the all-party kidney group. Its work, led by the hon. Member for Bassetlaw (Brendan Clarke-Smith), aims to promote improvements in the health and care services that are available to improve the health of people with renal failure.

I call on the Minister to respond to calls from voices in the renal community to support them, and ensure that a straightforward, accessible system is in place to enable people on home dialysis to be reimbursed for the additional cost of utilities, as set out in the UK Kidney Association guidance. Would the Minister perhaps be agreeable to that request? If I may, I would ask for a meeting on behalf of the APPG—perhaps the chair of the APPG, our friend and colleague, would do that—because then we could look at some of those issues. Those who are involved in this debate might wish to attend that meeting as well. NHS tariff payments for home dialysis must be sufficient to cover all associated costs, including reimbursement for additional utilities usage that should and must reflect current price increases. Again, I look to the Minister to pledge to work with energy companies, and the Chancellor to develop capped tariffs for people on medical treatments at home, such as dialysis.

Renal units should proactively offer support to all patients undergoing dialysis, to build their confidence and ensure that they are dialysing in the right way for them at the time. Again, Minister, we need to address the low uptake of home dialysis by implementing a review of the dialysis reimbursement tariff—I think we referred to that in the discussion that we had outside the Chamber, and I look forward very much to the Minister’s response. We must also ensure that training and educational needs can be met, and incentivise higher-frequency dialysis at home, such as alternate-day treatments, to support all dialysis centres to meet the 20% target. Let us meet that target. Let us do it here and back home as well, and achieve the significant cost savings that home dialysis can bring.

I will close with this comment: it is vital that all renal unit staff receive updated training to build their home dialysis knowledge, in order to help find solutions to the issues facing patients, and so that information for patients about transitioning to home therapies is standardised and includes details on the practical and financial support available. I place on the record my thanks to all renal staff. They do magnificent work; they are saving lives and they are keeping people alive. It is wonderful, and we thank them for it. The support available should also include a consistent approach to utility bill contributions from the NHS, in order to ensure equality for every renal dialysis patient across this great United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. The Government must ensure that educational resources are also provided to local authorities and trusts, enabling them to respond appropriately to the needs of people in their area who want to choose home therapies.

Thank you very much, Sir George, for the chance to raise the issue of dialysis treatment and bring it to Westminster Hall in a way that, I hope, both raises awareness and lets people out there on dialysis treatment know that we in this House care for them—I believe we do—and that we are seeking change. I look forward very much to other contributions in the Chamber today, but I look forward particularly to the response from the Minister.

Working Tax Credit and Universal Credit: Two-Child Limit

Debate between Margaret Ferrier and Jim Shannon

Thursday 21st April 2022 Westminster Hall

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

It is always a pleasure to speak in Westminster Hall, but it is a special pleasure to follow the hon. Member for Glasgow Central (Alison Thewliss). The hon. Lady and I have many things in common—apart from the independence of Scotland, of course. However, when it comes to social issues we are on the same page on just about everything; I can comfortably support her on those issues. I thank her for setting the scene, and I thank all other Members who have contributed.

I love accents. I love the accent of the hon. Member for Cynon Valley (Beth Winter). I hope I have pronounced that correctly—I probably have not. I think the Welsh accent adds to this Chamber; there are a number of Welsh Members who, through their voice and accent, add to the Chamber. I hope that my Ulster Scots accent from Northern Ireland also adds in some way to the Chamber, bringing the cultural values of all four nations together. It is always a pleasure to do that.

I fully support the comments of the hon. Member for Glasgow Central, and indeed those of everyone who has spoken and will speak afterwards. Hopefully, the Minister will give us some succour and support. Opposition Members’ comments are clear, and we look to the Minister in hope of a response. I am going to take a slightly different angle. I think the hon. Lady probably knows this, because she is always well versed in the subject matter, but the London School of Economics has been very clear. Its research set out to explore how the policy, in operation since April 2017, has affected fertility of third and subsequent births, and it said:

“Using quantitative methods, we find the policy led to only a small decline in fertility among those households directly affected. This implies that the main impact of the policy has been to reduce incomes”—

this hits on the issue that the hon. Lady referred to—

“among larger families who are already living on a low income”.

There are therefore two issues to this debate. It continued:

“and hence to increase child poverty.”

Those are the things that this debate and my short contribution will address. That is why I am very much opposed to the two-child policy and its effect on tax credits and universal credit.

[Margaret Ferrier]

Research from the New Field Foundation found that the limit does not discourage families from having more children, and has only worsened their financial difficulties. Does the hon. Gentleman agree that Ministers must actively engage with charities and organisations with expertise in policy impact to understand the real-terms impact of such policies?

[Jim Shannon]

I wholeheartedly support the hon. Lady’s comments.

I am going to say something fairly harsh. I am not a harsh person, or I try not to be, but I always had a fear about the two-child limit—perhaps others agree with me—which is why I opposed what I dubbed at that time the “Chinese limit”. We do not have an authoritarian state just yet, but in China they have—I know they are going to change the two-child rule, or at least they are hoping to change it—and in a way that is the authoritarianism of this DWP directive, which inadvertently or directly has put in place the Chinese limit.

I was talking to the hon. Lady before the debate, and I said that if there had been a two-child limit when our parents were born, I would not be here because my mother would not be here; she was the fourth child out of five. The hon. Lady and others—perhaps even the Minister—would not be here either. If the two-child limit were enforced here with the regularity that it is in China, but with an income base that makes it almost authoritarian, there would be children who are not born—people who would not be here. I want to highlight that dark perspective, because that is where I see this draconian, dictatorial and very authoritarian directive from the DWP going.

Peace and Stability in the Balkans

Debate between Margaret Ferrier and Jim Shannon

Wednesday 16th March 2022 Westminster Hall

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

It is a pleasure to speak in this debate, Mr Bone. I thank the hon. Member for Caerphilly (Wayne David) for setting the scene with expertise, knowledge and a deep interest. I know he intends to retire at the end of this Parliament and we shall miss him; his contributions are always significant and helpful, due to his years of experience, for which I thank him. I also thank him for leading today’s debate on such an important issue.

There are so many things happening in the world, and I will talk about Ukraine, as we probably all will. I am ever mindful of the responsibility that the Minister and the Government have on their shoulders. We pray for our Ministers every day, because we think it is really important that our Prime Minister and Government have the wisdom and knowledge that they need when decisions are made. As I mentioned in my intervention, I support the introduction of a no-fly zone. That is my opinion, but I understand the issues and what the implications are. Maybe I see things too simplistically sometimes, but I want to know how we can protect the Ukrainians, because we need to be doing so.

We have heard so much in the media and in this House about the recent invasion of Ukraine by Russia. There is not a morning or evening that I do not feel cut to the very core of my heart when I see the things that are happening and feel powerless to physically help people—sometimes it overcomes me. We must focus on the priority to help the Ukrainian people to fight the devastation. However, this debate is about the Balkans, particularly Bosnia and Herzegovina, and we must not forget the smaller non-NATO states, which have the potential to be targeted as well. The Minister and others might agree that the fight in Ukraine today is a fight in the Balkans tomorrow. It is a fight in Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Poland, Romania and Bulgaria, and on the doorstep of west Germany and France. Maybe the fight will be on the white cliffs of Dover at some time in the future, so the fight today in Ukraine is a fight to which we have to be physically, mentally and emotionally committed in every way we can.

Following Russia’s invasion of Ukraine, concerns have rightly been raised about the impact that it will have on the Balkan states. Historically, Russia has maintained rocky relations with different states in the Balkans, playing politics with them all. The Russians have been friends of some and enemies of others, and then they have changed their minds a few weeks later and entered into different relationships.

[Margaret Ferrier]

The Kosovan President has previously accused Russia of using Serbia to destabilise the Balkan region, and the Kosovan Prime Minister has said that Putin wants the state of Kosovo to fail in order to show that NATO success was temporary. Does the hon. Gentleman perceive there to be a risk to the stability in Kosovo and a need for it to join NATO?

[Jim Shannon]

I do think that, because Russia thrives on instability. The hon. Lady is absolutely right, and I thank her for her intervention.

Historically, Russia has maintained rocky relations. I also understand that Putin has a very clear relationship with the Bosnian Serbs. There is an Ulsterism that is particularly relevant. Back home, we would say—forgive me if this is rather graphic, but it is the way we see it—that Russia and Serbia suck off the same hind tit. It is very clear what the Ulsterism means: they both think the same, they both feed off the same person, and they both act together. As the hon. Member for Caerphilly said, Russia and Serbia are hand in hand in their aspirations and goals.

Regardless of whether small states such as Kosovo and Montenegro are part of NATO, we have a responsibility to protect their citizens from Russian invasion and violence. The United Nations High Commissioner for Human Rights has stated that, as of 14 March 2022, there have been more than 2,000 civilian deaths as a result of Russia’s military attack. Looking towards Bosnia, we have to consider what could happen in the Balkans in the light of what is happening in Ukraine. A further 1,500 people have been injured in Ukraine, and I am mindful of the picture of a lady being carried on a stretcher after the Russians attacked a hospital in Mariupol. It seems that she and her baby did not make it. It is very obvious that the lady was physically and mentally traumatised. The impact of Russian aggression will be the same in the Balkans if they can get away with it.

Ukraine has been crippled by greed and evil, and we must assume that Putin does not intend to stop at Ukraine; the EU, NATO, the UK and the US must be prepared to respond if the current situation deteriorates. I want to put on the record—something that we do not do often enough, but need to—my thanks to the Secretary of State for Defence, the right hon. Member for Wyre and Preston North (Mr Wallace). I know about some of the battles that he has fought in fulfilling our commitment to supply anti-tank missiles. Incidentally, those missiles are made at Thales in Northern Ireland; we have a talent for many things in Northern Ireland, but we seem to have a special talent for that. The now 4,000 anti-tank weapons are proving to be very effective against Russian tanks and armoured vehicles. So we want the support, and the Secretary of State has done that. I put on record my thanks. He has fought, through the obstacles that civil servants throw up, to help. We are asking today for that same commitment to preserve peace in the Balkans.

We must also employ atrocity prevention tools and policy, especially in the states of Bosnia and Herzegovina where society is full of tension and division. The hon. Member for Caerphilly said he had seen a small thing. It looks like a small thing, but it could very soon become a large thing—a confrontation and a battle over that issue. While we maintain the focus on Ukraine, having wider diplomatic engagement across the Balkan states ensures that we are able to practice mitigation tactics further. Protection Approaches, a charity based in London, has stated that the situation in Ukraine must not limit our capacity to respond appropriately to the risks in the Balkans, as the hon. Member for Caerphilly has outlined. We cannot allow the violence and terrorism to be mirrored in the areas surrounding Ukraine and risk more death and loss of life.

Today I look to my Minister and my Government and ask, where does the responsibility lie in co-ordinating the United Kingdom’s approach to the atrocities and ongoing risks of further potential devastation in Bosnia and Herzegovina, Kosovo, and the western Balkans? In addition to this, Montenegro, North Macedonia and Albania have been added to Russia’s list of “enemy states.” My goodness me, who has Russia not made an enemy of today? They hate the world; they hate their very own people—there is absolutely no end to it. It frustrates me greatly when I think that here is one person—Putin, along with his army—who are pursuing death and destruction; and their plans and their eyes are set on bigger things. They refer to those countries as “enemy states” for aligning themselves with sanctions against Russia, causing direct concern for potential invasion.

Everyone in this House was encouraged by that media lady on Russian TV who took her stand; We are very conscious that she is a person with tremendous courage, and she will be in our thoughts.

We must come to terms with the fact that Putin does not intend to stop. Only a few days ago, a Russian missile was launched, and landed some 10 miles from the Polish border. It is crucial that we pave the way to protect other small states while we can. We have a big job to do; the Minister has an incredibly big job to do; our Government have an incredibly big job to do. We look to them, and support them in their methodologies, moving forward. The talk of war has already been discussed in Bosnia and Herzegovina and they are already at risk of facing a resurgence of secessionist tendencies.

While the protection and refuge of the Ukrainian people must be at the forefront and pinnacle of our efforts, as has been said we must not forget the smaller states, which are also at the hands of Russian terror, destruction and murderous thoughts. I urge the Government and the Minister to have plans in place, should there be a future invasion into the Balkans. I think the hon. Member for Caerphilly was right to set the scene today—I thank him for it. We all know that there are many things in the world to keep an eye on, and the responsibility of our Ministers and our Government is one of overbearing pressure at times. I support our Ministers and our Government in the policies that they are taking forward, although I would like to take them forward a wee bit harder, perhaps—but that is just me talking. Others have a different opinion, and I understand that.

Gas and Electricity Costs

Debate between Margaret Ferrier and Jim Shannon

Tuesday 18th January 2022 Westminster Hall

[Margaret Ferrier (Rutherglen and Hamilton West) (Ind)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Sir Edward. I congratulate the hon. Member for Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross (Jamie Stone) on securing today’s timely and critical debate.

We should soon, hopefully, begin to see some economic recovery at the end of a very long couple of years. Unfortunately, there are too many people across the UK who cannot wait indefinitely for things to improve. The cost of living crisis is here, and it is not avoidable. When the price cap was reviewed and bills subsequently rose, I was contacted by many constituents who were worried about the impact it would have on their living costs. It came just at the time when the universal credit uplift was removed and furlough ended.

At the same time, the Government were struggling to keep on top of state pension claims, and vulnerable pensioners were waiting months for their first payment. There was nothing to address that in the Chancellor’s autumn Budget, and the national insurance hike was also missing from the announcement. It was not missing from the minds of taxpayers, though, particularly those on lower incomes, where every penny counts.

Next month we will hear from Ofgem, and its announcement that the price cap will rise once more come April will be no surprise. Recent projections estimate that household bills could rise by over £700 a year. In my constituency, that is almost the equivalent of the average monthly rent. It is almost an extra £59 added to bills each month. Some people might be privileged enough not to miss £59 a month, but they are few and far between. The average weekly family food shop is around £63. The average cost of sending one child to five after-school club sessions is £62. Are those the kinds of sacrifices the Government expect our constituents to make to keep the heating on?

A coalition of 25 charities, including Age UK and Save the Children, have warned that the rise could push the number of families living in fuel poverty from 4 million to a massive 6 million. That is 6 million households, not individuals, although if it were 6 million individuals it would not be acceptable either. Industry has warned that it might take from 18 months to three years for the energy crisis to resolve.

[Jim Shannon]

Has the hon. Lady experienced in her constituency an increase in the number of people who are referred to food banks, as the hon. Member for Newton Abbot described? I know I have in my constituency, where the figure is up by almost two thirds on this time last year. That indicates that there are real pressures on those who did not apply in the past, but are applying now.

[Margaret Ferrier]

The hon. Gentleman is absolutely right. I think we all find the rise in the use of food banks in our constituencies shocking. As the hon. Member for Newton Abbot (Anne Marie Morris) said earlier, people who would not normally have to attend a food bank who are having to do so now, so there definitely is a squeeze on people’s incomes.

These households cannot and should not have to wait up to three years for the energy crisis to resolve, so what is the solution? What can the Government realistically do? The answer does not lie in defunding the BBC, or in small changes to the universal credit taper rate. The only way to ease the burden on families up and down the UK is to tackle the energy price crisis in a pragmatic, meaningful way. Many options have been put forward to the Government, and I urge them in the strongest terms to please consider those options as a matter of urgency.

A reduction to the VAT rate on energy would provide some much needed breathing space for those who need it most. The Government are keen to keep repeating that, as an importer, we are held to the whims of the current market’s rapid and substantial levels of demand. To a great extent, that is true, but a VAT reduction is within the Treasury’s gift and should be given. A windfall tax on North sea oil and gas companies would also mean that it is not the most vulnerable paying the price for this unusually and regrettably high cost. After all, those companies are expected to report almost record-breaking profit levels for this financial year. They have unarguably benefitted considerably, whereas our constituents have suffered and will continue to do so. Suspending or reducing green levies on energy bills could help too, as could expanding the warm home discount, which many hon. Members have mentioned, or increasing universal credit.

Whatever route the Government decide to take, they must do something; it would be heartbreaking to hear the same stories from my constituents for another 18 months or three years when there are solutions, should the Government choose to implement them—I hope that they do.

Eye Health and Macular Disease

Debate between Margaret Ferrier and Jim Shannon

Tuesday 11th January 2022 Westminster Hall

[Margaret Ferrier (Rutherglen and Hamilton West) (Ind)]

In 2018, the Royal College of Ophthalmologists found that there was a need for an extra 230 consultants and 204 staff and associate specialists over two years. Does the hon. Gentleman agree that recruiting and retaining staff in the ophthalmology workforce needs to be a primary consideration?

[Jim Shannon]

I certainly do, and I thank the hon. Lady for that intervention. That was one of my points; the Minister has heard it said there, and I will not repeat it. The importance of having the staff in place, to which the hon. Lady referred, is one of the asks in this debate. How can we address that? If we have the staff in place, we can address the issue of eyesight loss earlier.

We are all aware of the demand for NHS eye-care services over recent years. Ophthalmology is now the busiest outpatient specialty in the NHS, with some 7.9 million attendances in 2019-20. That gives one an idea of the magnitude of the issue. That is why this debate is important, and why today we need to look to take things forward. Waiting times have been made worse by the covid-19 pandemic—we understand that. The pandemic has meant that some patients faced a waiting time of up to six months to access care. We know that the wait can be a matter of weeks, but if patients have to wait six months for a diagnosis and medical response, their eyesight can deteriorate significantly in that time. Up to 22 people a month may suffer severe or permanent sight loss as a result of delays to follow-up care. Can the Minister tell us what we can do to address those issues, and what has been done to catch up on that in the pandemic?

--- Later in debate ---

[Jim Shannon]

How pertinent that intervention is. I will give a couple of examples now that I was going to give later because they are pertinent to this. The opticians and ophthalmologists in Strangford and Newtownards town have told me of two occasions in 2021 when people who went for their test were sent straight away to the Ulster hospital in Dundonald because they had a tumour. They had no other ailments, but their ophthalmologist or optician spotted something early on. They say the eyes tell the health of the whole body, and I think they do. In that case, two lives were saved, and there are probably many others.

[Margaret Ferrier]

Following that point, it is really important to use the available data effectively in understanding the level of serious eye issues experienced across the UK. Does the hon. Gentleman agree that streamlining data sharing across all health care providers should be mandated?

[Jim Shannon]

It is always important to have the data on health issues. The Minister, the shadow Minister and hon. Members will know that. If you have the data, you can respond to where the problems are. The hon. Lady is right; we need to have that data in place.

In 2018, the APPG on eye health and visual impairment took evidence from the charity SeeAbility. People with learning disabilities, including children in special schools, are much more likely to have a sight problem, but much less likely to access NHS sight tests. Last night, in a different debate on the welfare cap, the right hon. Member for Hayes and Harlington (John McDonnell) referred to those who will feel the pain of the welfare cap, but those with disabilities will feel it more. That is very real when it comes to health issues and it is why this issue is so important.

With that in mind, the APPG and SeeAbility asked for sight testing and glasses dispensing facilities in all special schools, which has now been taken forward by NHS England. That is excellent news and it shows that sometimes—hopefully all the time—APPGs and their partners can bring about changes. This will reach around 130,000 children and help to address and prevent avoidable sight issues and reduce the need to use hospital eye clinics.

The commitment by NHS England to reform must continue as these children have an equal right to sight. We will all follow matters closely, and I would like to see the rest of the UK following Northern Ireland. The excellent work by the Ulster University Centre for Optometry and Vision Science in special schools has also shown the same need. When we see that issue being addressed, it is good news. Let us all look at the opportunity for reform in England and in the devolved nations and seek to improve sight testing for adults with learning disabilities in the community too.

There are targeted schemes with optical practices in every area. Unfortunately, Minister, at the moment we see a patchwork across the UK. In some areas the service is good and in other areas it is not. We need to act across the board in all postcode areas to see the level of care and attention that we seek in today’s debate.

The health inequalities experienced by people with learning difficulties justify more attention. People with learning disabilities are dying of avoidable health issues at least two decades before their peers. We cannot have people living without good sight and even going avoidably blind because national health services overlook their needs. That cannot happen and should not be allowed to happen.

I have outlined the issues, but I want now to look at the good news; the positive, glass-half-full news about how we make the changes to address those issues, including improving the quality of life for people with macular disease and the pressure on family and friends that inevitably comes with that.

With rapid and appropriate treatments, whether those are pharmaceutical treatments, laser treatments or surgery, we can do the job better, working alongside opticians. They are keen to be involved, and to address these issues. As my hon. Friend the Member for East Londonderry (Mr Campbell) said, when a person gets an appointment from their optician, they should go to it: it is so important that they do so, and we want to make sure that people do that. So many cases of sight loss could be either treatable or preventable.

As the UK builds back from the covid-19 pandemic, there is an opportunity to transform eye care services, increasing capacity to deliver rapid and appropriate treatment for macular disease and other causes of sight loss. NHS planning guidance for 2022 focuses on tackling elective care backlogs. Minister, what has been done to address those backlogs? I understand that there are many backlogs—we know them all too well. We need to deliver 110% of pre-pandemic elective activity, but we must also support the NHS to transform services for the long term, to ensure there is enough capacity to treat patients who start to experience sight loss. Improved integration of eye care services must also be a priority for integrated care systems as they move towards implementation. That should include supporting lower-risk patients to be treated in the community, freeing up specialist service capacity for those patients who need it most. At the same time, as the hon. Member for Rutherglen and Hamilton West said, data sharing needs to be improved, for example through the electronic eye care referral system. That is just one example of what could be done to ensure that everyone has the information they need to improve the quality and timeliness of care.

We must also ensure that the NHS is making use of the most innovative treatments—the hon. Member for Sedgefield (Paul Howell) has referred to one of them—especially those treatments that help people living with sight loss to manage their condition as independently as possible, with less frequent need for hospital visits. If we can reduce hospital visits and improve care, we will reduce costs and improve long-term health. We must invest in the workforce we need to deliver current and future eye care. I am very pleased to note that the Government have already confirmed that the process to appoint a new national clinical director for eye care has begun. I hope that this role will provide much-needed leadership and drive forward a transformation of NHS eye care services, including improved integration, better use of data and expansion of the workforce, which I believe is essential to provide the high-quality care that will, in turn, deliver better outcomes for patients. That national clinical director should therefore be appointed as a matter of urgently, and I look to the Minister and to Government to give us a clear timetable for making that appointment.

To ensure accountability and transparency, the national clinical director for eye care should report to a single Minister with responsibility for eye care services across primary, secondary and community care. The role of that individual is critically important for outlining a strategy and moving forward. Sight loss is widespread, and its implications are significant for the NHS. The cost of sight loss to the public purse cannot be ignored, but it is most important for the patients whose lives will be irrevocably altered by a diagnosis such as macular disease. Timely access to appropriate treatment could quite simply be the difference between someone losing and keeping their sight. We want to ensure that people can keep their sight, so it is vital that we do all we can to ensure that every patient can get the treatment they need, when they need it—the earlier the better. When it comes to sight, every day matters. Every appointment is essential, and that principle must underpin our approach to the necessary changes to macular eye health in this post-covid world.

I thank the Minister again for offering her time. People will say, “Well, that’s her job”, but she comes here with a passion and an interest in this issue. It makes it much more pleasurable for me introducing this debate, and for other Members as well, that we have a Minister who can respond positively. I welcome the opportunity to continue these discussions following today’s debate—I know that the Minister is always agreeable to doing so. In anticipation of their speeches, I also thank all of my colleagues, right hon. and hon. Friends and Members, in this Chamber. Working together, we can and will achieve.

Asthma Outcomes

Debate between Margaret Ferrier and Jim Shannon

Tuesday 7th December 2021 Westminster Hall

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

I beg to move,

That this House has considered asthma outcomes.

Thank you very much for calling me to speak, Mr McCabe. This is an issue that is close to my heart and close to the hearts of others here. There are few families in the whole of the United Kingdom for whom asthma has not been a key issue; it has been an issue for my own, and I want to speak about that as well. I am grateful to the Backbench Business Committee for agreeing to have the debate. I am chair of the all-party parliamentary group for respiratory health, which recently completed an inquiry into this issue, so I am delighted to be able to raise the issue of improving asthma outcomes in the UK. I very much look forward to the response from the Minister. I am also very pleased to see the shadow Minister, the hon. Member for Enfield North (Feryal Clark), in her place, and I wish her well in her new role.

What does asthma mean to me? My second son, Ian, had asthma. He was born with very severe psoriasis, which meant that we had to apply cream to him three times a day when he was a wee boy. The doctor told us that the psoriasis would eventually go away, but that it would be replaced by asthma. I am not sure of the medical connection—I am not medically qualified to understand it—and I know only what the doctor told me and my wife. Ian has had asthma all his life now—he is 30 years old—and has used salbutamol, the wee blue inhaler, which is always there. It is very clear, from our family’s experience, that those salbutamol inhalers are really important. They are important for Ian. Asthma did not stop him participating in sports, but it meant that he always had to have that inhaler close by, should he at any time feel shortness of breath or need a wee helper.

In Ian’s class at school, there were many others who had asthma issues. As an elected representative, whenever I help constituents with benefit forms, whether for attendance allowance, personal independence payments or whatever, I always ask them about their medical circumstances. More often than not, asthma features among the ailments that they confirm they have—even for those of a different generation. They have often had it for many years. Asthma is an incredibly important issue.

I am pleased to see the Minister in his place. I always like dealing with him, because I always find his answers helpful. He has a passion for the health issues that we bring to his attention, and he always tries to give, and indeed succeeds in giving, the answers that one wishes to receive. Today, we are going to ask a number of questions, and we very much look forward to his responses. I am pleased to see hon. Members in their places. I had hoped that more Members would be able to attend, but I understand that last night was a late night for Members and that there are other pressing matters today.

I have always had a particular interest in respiratory health. This debate has arisen as a consequence of the APPG’s report, which we published last year: “Improving asthma outcomes in the UK”. We looked at the UK mainland, but we also had contributions from Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland. Obviously, I bring the Northern Ireland perspective to any debate, wherever it may be about, and bring in Strangford too. I am my party’s health spokesperson in this place, and I work closely with my colleagues back home in the Northern Ireland Assembly, particularly with Pam Cameron, my party colleague. She and I work on many things together, including this topic.

Last year, the APPG produced a report investigating the reasons behind the UK’s poor asthma outcomes. We were pleased, honoured and humbled that recognised experts in fields relating to asthma responded to our invitation to take part. The experts ranged from clinical experts from primary, secondary and tertiary care to patient advocacy groups, national asthma champions and patients.

The inquiry was incredibly helpful and detailed. I thank Hugh McKinney of the APPG secretariat and his team for bringing together all the people who wanted to contribute. As a result of the inquiry and the report, many countries in the world now look towards us to learn about how we deal with asthma. They want to learn something from us here in the United Kingdom, and perhaps do things that wee bit better.

[Margaret Ferrier (Rutherglen and Hamilton West) (Ind)]

I congratulate the hon. Member on securing today’s debate. As with most conditions, research and development is key to improving outcomes. Does he agree that funding into asthma research must be provided from a clearly defined central source and that there must be increased capacity for trials in hospitals?

[Jim Shannon]

I absolutely agree with the hon. Lady. No matter what the sphere of health, early diagnosis and attention is key. Indeed, my son is an example of that, as a child born with the ailment. There was early participation in his treatment by the doctors, including our own GP and those in the hospital. It is clear to me that that helped him on the pathway to better health. The hon. Lady is absolutely right and I thank her.

We received a large number of written submissions, including evidence from across the numerous asthma disciplines. We were encouraged that there was such a high level of interest. The APPG tries to do a catch-up once a month with stakeholders and those with medical expertise. Each month, we aim to hear from between 16 and 20 people who have an interest in the subject. They bring all their information to us, which we are pleased to have. We were incredibly encouraged that there was such a high level of interest, and I thank every one of them for their help and expert advice.

Let us consider the impact of asthma on people in the UK. The number of people affected by asthma in the UK is among the highest in the world, with some 5.4 million people sufferers. I had never done an interview with GB News until yesterday morning, but they were interested in this debate and a former colleague in this House was the interviewer. It was nice to catch up with Gloria de Piero again in her new job, and it was a platform and an opportunity to raise awareness and the questions were clear. That figure of 5.4 million people suffering from asthma came up early on in that interview.

[Jim Shannon]

I thank my hon. Friend and colleague for that point. He is right that there many charities and volunteers, as well as many people who have the disease. A great number of people have expertise, interest and keenness to help and assist them. COPD is one of the most debilitating diseases that I have ever seen. I never realised just how many people in my constituency suffer from COPD, but there seem to be a large number, some of whom are in the advanced stages of a deterioration in health. I have a very good friend who is an artist; we have been friends for many years. He is interested in rural and country sports, as I am, which is where our friendship came from. Today, he is completely dependent on oxygen 24/7 and rarely leaves the house. For a man who was active and fit, COPD has changed his life dramatically.

Some 65% of people with asthma do not receive a yearly review—I am keen for the Minister to respond to that—despite recommendations by the National Institute for Health and Care Excellence that they should. I respectfully ask the Minister, if they are not getting a review, why not? Asthma has an impact on every patient’s quality of life. A recent pilot study for Asthma UK showed that the impact can be considerable: 68% said asthma attacks hold them back from work in school; 71% said severe asthma affects their social life; 54% said it holds them back from going on holiday; and 66% said severe asthma has made them or their child anxious. When the child is anxious, the parent is anxious—we all worry about what happens. The study also found 55% said having severe asthma has made them or their child depressed. The issue of depression and mental health has come up during the difficulties we have had with covid over the past year and a half.

Asthma deaths in the UK have increased by one third over the last decade. Three people in the UK die from asthma every day, which is among the highest in Europe, yet studies show that more than two out of three asthma deaths could be prevented. Three people die every day and if we had the right things in place, we could save two of those three lives every day in the UK. I put that challenge to the Minister, who I hope will give us the confident and positive reply that we would like to see.

[Margaret Ferrier]

Air pollution can trigger asthma attacks, and it is believed that it is linked to the rise in childhood asthma. Does the hon. Member agree that tackling air pollution could also bring public health benefits?

[Jim Shannon]

I absolutely agree. The hon. Member is making points that we all agree with. I am glad she has brought that to my attention. I come to London to work and am aware of the air pollution and the steps that the Mayor of London and others that are taking to try to address that, by restricting the number and type of cars coming in. As the hon. Lady rightly said, people have died in London from air pollution and we must address that. In large metropolises and population clusters, where vehicles and the economy are concentrated, air pollution is important.

I am fortunate to have lived in the countryside all my life. It means that when I go out of my back door there are green fields and the neighbours are about half a mile away, so there is a distance between us as well. However, some 14,000 vehicles a day pass by us on the road—the A20 from Ards to Portaferry—which, by its very nature, shows where the problem is.

Asthma exacerbations lead to over 77,000 hospital admissions each year. It is estimated that asthma leads to a direct cost to the NHS of £1 billion and an indirect cost to society of £1.2 billion due to time off work and loss of productivity. This goes back to the intervention by the hon. Member for Rutherglen and Hamilton West (Margaret Ferrier) when she referred to early diagnosis which can stop people losing work days and reduce the cost to the NHS. These factors cannot ignored be when it comes to addressing the health issues and helping to balance the books.

This year, the APPG’s intention was to produce a one-year-on report to highlight and emphasise the tremendous work that has been carried out by all those working in asthma. We intended to highlight the progress that has taken place in the past year, the actions of the Government, and any further areas that needed to be reconsidered. Our job will be to continue to note the progress—it may not be the progress we would like to see—and speak to the Minister to see how we can change that. However, covid changed everything. It changed our thinking dramatically. It has had a devastating effect on many lives and has impacted on asthma care. It affected the scope of our latest report, as well as concentrating on asthma outcomes one year on. We have also looked carefully at the impact of covid on respiratory health and asthma in particular.

I have the greatest admiration and respect for all those working in the NHS during these difficult times, especially those in respiratory health, which has been the hardest hit. They are all heroes—that word is used often, but it is true here—and a credit to the profession and the NHS. We are grateful and thankful to them all.

In the past year, covid has had an impact on those with asthma, COPD and the complex health needs that can sometimes be exacerbated by covid, leading to further difficulties. The past year has been difficult for every one of us. We have probably all lost loved ones to covid. In October last year, we lost my mother-in-law, who had complex needs. Covid took her, and we still miss her.

Today, I want to concentrate on the three critical issues identified by the clinical advisers who addressed our inquiry and shared their expertise and evidence. The first issue is the overuse of salbutamol reliever inhalers. We are not saying that people should not have them. That is not what the inquiry said or what the APPG is saying. We are looking at the potential overuse of those inhalers. The second issue is the new unified asthma guidelines. Thirdly, we need better use of biologics.

Prior to the covid pandemic, responders to our inquiry last year identified the overuse of salbutamol inhalers—the blue, not brown, inhalers—and oral corticosteroids as the biggest area of concern and the most important cause of exacerbation and unnecessary asthma deaths. In our report, the APPG also cited numerous studies that have shown that over-reliance on salbutamol may lead to the reduced use of preventer inhalers and to a greater risk of preventable attacks. Regular overuse has also been shown to increase the risk of asthma attacks, hospitalisations and deaths. The Department of Health and Social Care needs to look at the overuse of medications and whether that may do more harm. The evidence in this case seems to show that this is one of those situations.

A recent study by the SABA use in asthma global programme—the SABINA programme—found that high use of such inhalers was frequent among UK patients and

“was associated with a significant increase in exacerbations”

and in reliance on asthma-related healthcare. It stated the need to align SABA inhaler prescription practices with current treatment recommendations.

Some 22.5 million of these inhalers are dispensed to asthma patients each year, an average of five per diagnosed patient. Way back in 2019, before covid, and during one of the few times in my life I have had health issues, there was a week when I could not even come to Westminster, because the doctor told me it would not be safe to travel. My chest and breathing were at a level where he advised me not to travel. At that time, I was on the blue inhalers. I think I had three over that 11 or 12-week period. I may have had a wee bit too much, although I did not realise that at the time. That is one of the issues highlighted by the inquiry.

Patients using excessive numbers of inhalers should be flagged, identified and immediately seen by an asthma-trained clinician. I bring it to the Minister’s attention that we think it is time to rethink asthma treatment and get this right for patients and constituents across the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. There are innovative approaches that demonstrate SABA-reduction.

A 2018 study in The Lancet suggested a maintenance and reliever treatment, with a combination steroid and long-acting beta-agonist, which would allow SABA-free treatment. That could be an effective way to reduce SABA overuse among patients, where clinically appropriate. As ever, it must always be done in consultation with and under the guidance of your doctor and those with health expertise.

The Sentinel project undertaken in Hull and East Yorkshire improved outcomes for adult asthma patients by identifying SABA over-reliance and appropriate implementation of a MART strategy. There is a pilot scheme, which could be the marker, the guide, the standard, the level for the rest of the United Kingdom. Data from that pilot Sentinel study demonstrated that MART can substantially reduce the SABA prescribing.

To ensure that that happens, it is important to restore the asthma reviews, which were hit badly by covid. It is time, ever mindful that covid is our priority, to look at the other issues in the United Kingdom, and asthma is one of them. Asthma UK’s latest annual survey showed that 66% of people with asthma are not receiving basic care for their condition, and that that level has fallen, for the first time in eight years. Minister, what has been done to address that fall? How can we do it better?

An annual asthma review is an important component of addressing that. I should be grateful if the Minister would update us on the progress that has been made on restoring the annual reviews. When we are responding to health issues in the United Kingdom we often need data, so it is important to have that in place.

We also suggested in our APPG report that primary care incentives might be necessary to drive the reduction of SABA use. We stated that the QOF—quality and outcomes framework—or the investment and impact fund have the potential to help with that. The patient pathway is also an important method to reduce SABA use, which brings me to my second point—the new unified guidelines.

Last year, in our inquiry, we analysed the challenges faced by clinicians in treating severe asthma. We found that almost all the experts identified the existence of multiple asthma guidelines as confusing, unnecessary and a cause for concern. If they are confusing to experts, and therefore for our constituents and patients too, we need to have a singular approach. Again, I look to the Minister for a response.

The Royal College of Physicians told us in its submission that

“national audit data collected from England, Scotland and Wales indicates that the standard of care against national guidelines (NICE and BTS) and recommendations from NRAD are variable and on the whole substandard.”

There is a need to get things right and singular. As a consequence, the APPG strongly welcomed the commitment to and the ongoing work to produce unified guidelines as a necessary step forward to improve asthma outcomes. We felt that it was especially important for our time-stretched clinicians that all guidelines on asthma should be in one place.

The unified guidelines were delayed due to covid, but are due in 2023. Our main concern, however, is that we understand that the draft scope for the new unified guidelines does not include severe asthma. I bring that to the Minister’s attention, because we feel it should. Perhaps the Minister will give us some indication of what will be done to address that, because that appears to me to be a serious omission, and others will agree.

It is unclear how any guidelines could be described as “unified” when the most serious type of asthma is not included. I have a concern, a question mark in mind, about that. It is especially puzzling when we consider that the existing NICE, British Thoracic Society/Scottish Intercollegiate Guidelines Network, Global Initiative for Asthma and NRAD—national review of asthma deaths—guidelines all give similar criteria for referring a patient for severe asthma.

If severe asthma is excluded from the scope of the unified guidelines, the concern is that newer treatment options will not be addressed properly, which takes us back to the intervention by the hon. Member for Rutherglen and Hamilton West. This is about early diagnosis and treatment at an early stage. If we do not get that right, we will have complications and problems later.

Those newer treatment options include the use of biologic treatments and the latest best practice in phenotyping, which were strongly recommended by both clinicians and severe asthma patients in our inquiry. The long-term plan states:

“We will do more to support those with respiratory disease to receive and use the right medication”,

but without severe asthma included in the unified guidelines, that is unlikely to happen. How can we make that happen, rather than being unlikely? Will the Minister therefore give me, the House and those in and outside this Chamber the thinking behind that omission? What is the possibility of adding severe asthma back into the discussion? If we can retrieve that and bring it back in, I will be pleased. I also wonder what can be done while we wait for the new guidelines. Four sets of guidelines are confusing for clinicians. Surely it would be preferable not to wait until 2023 for clarity. We need to act today—for the three people who die every day due to asthma. That is the imperative. Is there any way that the Minister can reflect on that and give consideration to updated living guidelines to reflect current best practice and treatment?

Unified or updated guidelines can materially affect my third point on biologic therapies. They are life-saving treatments for people with certain types of severe asthma and asthma that is difficult to control. They can reduce asthma attacks in severe asthma, reduce the need for steroids and improve symptoms. At present, they are only offered to patients through the specialist asthma clinics. There was strong support in our report last year for the appropriate use of biologic treatments and we supported the extension of prescribing to secondary care clinicians for severe asthma patients. Many clinicians viewed the use of biologics as a better alternative to traditional oral corticosteroid treatment for severe asthma and we received evidence that a large majority of patients who are eligible still do not have access to them.

Asthma UK suggests that

“82% of difficult and severe asthma patients are often not being referred at the right time, or sometimes, not at all.”

That is hard to believe. Asthma UK and BLF also told us that the current NHS asthma care pathway does not take full account of the availability of the new treatments. So most people with severe asthma are still reliant on OCS. According to Asthma UK, three in four people eligible for biologic treatment are still not accessing it and thousands of patients are having to endure treatments that are considered inadequate and suffer unnecessary side effects.

That is linked to the Government’s five highest health gains programme, which introduced a commitment by the UK to match or surpass comparative nations in the access to new and innovative medicines in five clinical areas, one of which is severe asthma biologics. The scheme committed to the objective of

“reaching the upper quartile of uptake for 5 highest health gain categories”

during the course of the first half of the scheme, by mid-2021. We applaud the Government’s initiative and action on that to date, but the deadline has clearly been missed. New data commissioned by NHS England has shown that the UK is far from the upper quartile and confirms that we are currently ninth out of 10 with regard to comparator countries. We must improve that. We must get better and do that for our patients. We also recommended extending the Accelerated Access Collaborative’s severe asthma programme, and increasing resources to increase capacity for prescribing biologics will be important for achieving that. Will the Minister give a renewed commitment to achieving upper quartile access and set a new, clearly defined target for when and how that will be achieved?

In October 2021 the Government announced 40 new community diagnostic centres, which are set to open across England in a range of settings, from local shopping centres to football stadiums, to offer new and earlier diagnostic tests closer to patients’ homes. I want to put on record my thanks to the Government and the Minister for that commitment. It is clearly there and we thank him for that. However, we cannot make it a postcode lottery. If it can happen here in London, it should happen in Cardiff, Newcastle, Liverpool and everywhere else. Nowhere should be any different, so I would like to see that happening.

The Government have stated that the new centres will be backed by a substantial amount of money—a £350 million investment—and will provide around 2.8 million scans in the first full year of operation. They are designed to assist with earlier diagnosis through faster and easier access to diagnostic tests for symptoms in areas including breathlessness, cancer and ophthalmology. In the Budget, the Chancellor announced an additional £5.9 billion to tackle the backlog of general diagnostic tests to deliver more checks, more scans and more treatment. The intention is to increase the number of diagnostic centres to at least 100 and I understand that each one will include a multidisciplinary team of staff, including nurses and radiographers, and will be open seven days a week. The Government and the Minister are to be commended for that, and I warmly welcome it and the funding that will be allocated. I hope they can help address the covid-imposed inequalities that we have seen across the country in asthma care and treatment. Will the centres be fully staffed, will they have trained staff and will they be in place?

I also welcome the breathlessness diagnostics, which will be included in the centres. It is essential that they should be equipped to diagnose any cause of breathlessness, whether cardiovascular, lung cancer, asthma or chronic obstructive pulmonary disease, which my hon. Friend the Member for East Londonderry (Mr Campbell) mentioned. It is also important to establish an appropriate referral system from the centres, should further investigation be warranted. Will the Minister confirm that the FeNO and spirometry tests will be included in all centres, to allow for fuller asthma assessments?

I look forward to the contributions from other Members, and I thank those who intervened on my speech. I very much look forward to the Front-Bench contributions, particularly from the Minister.

Community Debt Advice Services

Debate between Margaret Ferrier and Jim Shannon

Wednesday 1st December 2021 Westminster Hall

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

It is a pleasure to speak in this debate, Ms Bardell. I congratulate the hon. Member for Kingston upon Hull West and Hessle (Emma Hardy) on setting the scene and thank her for that. This is a massive issue, not just in the hon. Lady’s constituency, but in my own. In our office, we deal with those who have extreme financial difficulties every day and every week. I will give a couple of examples, without mentioning any names.

In Strangford, the CAB, Christians Against Poverty, church groups and other groups provide community debt advice services; those are the groups that I work with on most occasions. There has been an increase of at least 30% in gas, electricity and oil prices in Northern Ireland, and cold weather and an extreme winter are predicted. Food prices are up by as much as 20% in some places and there is the additional pressure of Christmas, with the expectation that many families feel forced to live up to. We all know about that because we talk to our constituents. When children see something at school that their friends have, there is almost an onus on the parents to make sure their children get the same thing. That is not a criticism; it is the nature of how we live in our lives, but it adds a huge burden to low-income families, with recent reports citing that families will spend an average of £300 per child. That does not include spending on other family members.

For me, Ms Bardell, Christmas is a time to enjoy being with family. I have three boys who are 32, 30 and 28, three daughters-in-law and five grandchildren, so for me Christmas is time to spend with my grandchildren. The good thing about being a grandparent is that at 7 o’clock at night I can give them back. We have all had those joys as parents; when they have a tantrum, or they get a bit tired but they do not want to go to bed—or they do want to go to bed.

[Margaret Ferrier]

A lot of people are not aware that Christmas spending is something that can be accounted for in income and expenditure forms when dealing with debt. Does the hon. Gentleman agree that the need for better awareness when dealing with debt does not mean losing that quality of life as well?

[Jim Shannon]

We do not want to lose quality of life, but we do need to deal with the reality of life. The hon. Member for Makerfield (Yvonne Fovargue) outlined in great detail the issues that most families feel—and address. It is easy for me to talk about time with the family, because it is my wife Sandra who chooses the Christmas gifts. She is better at it than me, and knows what the children want. The money we spend is disbursed as she sees fit. However, for other people, it will be a juggling exercise between buying Christmas presents and being able to afford the oil and electric bills. That is the issue and that is why I am here to speak on behalf of those constituents who are under great pressure.

The security is not there for many families. Rather than seeing disappointed faces on Christmas morning, people make purchases and live with the debt for months to come. Last week, in my local press back home, there was an indication that this year in particular, the issue for those who have maxed out their credit cards is that they will turn to payday loans. I have forever cautioned against that, because the reality will be extreme. There will be a pain-free two weeks, but then there will be a very painful month after Christmas. I have extreme concern for those people.

UK-EU Fisheries Allocations

Debate between Margaret Ferrier and Jim Shannon

Tuesday 30th November 2021 Westminster Hall

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

I beg to move,

That this House has considered allocations to UK-EU fisheries following the UK’s departure from the EU.

Thank you, Ms McVey, for allowing me to speak. I especially thank the Backbench Business Committee for allowing this debate. We all tend to think that somebody else is going to request a debate on this topic, but when I spoke to the Committee Chairman, the hon. Member for Gateshead (Ian Mearns), I realised that that had not happened. Therefore, we arranged it very quickly on Thursday evening and Friday morning, and were kindly given this spot.

It is so important to have this debate, and it is a pleasure to see so many right hon. and hon. Members in their places. I am especially pleased to see the Minister in her place. She has a wonderful appreciation of fishing and a good working relationship with the fishing organisations in Northern Ireland. They speak highly of her. I know them well, so I know that when they speak highly of somebody, they have earned it—well done for that.

Last Friday was a grey, breezy and cold day at Portavogie, Kilkeel and Ardglass harbours in County Down. Part of the fleet was in port, part of the fleet is scattered around the British Isles, and some of them are fishing in the North sea. Others have diversified into offshore, energy-related projects and are deployed away from home. Some of the trawlers opted to stay at home and were tied up at the beginning of October, and they have no plans to put to sea until the new year. The prawn fishery is the mainstay of the County Down fleet and, by and large, catches drop off during the autumn. I hold an advice surgery in Portavogie on the second Saturday of every month, and my workload comes from the fishing issues in the village. Seasonal gales impact on fishing operations, too, as does the increased cost of fuel, which, other than crew wages, is the single biggest overhead for a trawler and has impacted substantially on the profitability of fishing operations, adding to the challenges.

Those are the factors that fishermen have to deal with year to year. However, in autumn 2021 they have been further complicated by the political closure of fishing grounds that fall within the maritime zone of Ireland, or the EU, in the Irish sea. As I often do, I will provide a Northern Ireland perspective—I am sure that hon. Members would be disappointed if I did not. The particular reason that I want to provide that perspective is that I represent the second biggest fishing port in Northern Ireland.

The sea border with Ireland is only a few minutes’ steaming time from Kilkeel. At this time of the year, access to those waters is vital for the local fleet. However, 11 months into the new relationship with the EU, issues such as mutual access by fishermen from both parts of the island to the waters are yet to be fully resolved.

[Margaret Ferrier (Rutherglen and Hamilton West) (Ind)]

A key concern of industry is that the Government have not been clear about the benefits gained and losses made by leaving the EU. Does the hon. Member agree that the Government must prioritise transparency and engagement with the industry?

[Jim Shannon]

I do agree with that. That is one of the thrusts of my comments this morning: the Minister and the Government must ensure that we have transparency and a settled perspective for the fishing fleets in Kilkeel, Portavogie in my constituency, Ardglass and across the whole of Northern Ireland.

French fishermen and the French Government complain about the UK not issuing enough fishing licences to fish in waters off the south coast of England. The sentiment in Northern Ireland is that we wish we had half of France’s problems when it comes to fishing opportunities and the ability to catch fish whenever we can. Following the 2016 referendum, a wagon train—or, to use a pun, a boatload—of officials from London visited County Down to gain an understanding of the fishing fleets’ operations and the path to market for seafood landed at the ports. The interdependence of fishing operations was recorded multiple times. The routes to the markets in GB, the EU and further afield were clearly explained. What was the result of that? We are still wondering.

The first part was the Ireland/Northern Ireland protocol. Senior fisheries officials from the Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs visited Northern Ireland in early January 2020 to proclaim the benefits of the protocol for the fishing industry. We do not see those benefits. The “best of both worlds” was proclaimed on the tin and we heard that the proof of the pudding would be in the eating—we heard all the wee puns that we all use every day—but, as we often find, the devil is in the detail.

--- Later in debate ---

[Jim Shannon]

I thank the right hon. Gentleman for a very useful, honest and helpful intervention. Many of us think that the standards set are too high to be achieved. That is an issue that comes up whenever I do my constituency surgeries in Portavogie.

The Government have told us that we should wait until we see the impact on the labour market from the covid pandemic. Last week the Prime Minister confirmed that more people are in employment in the UK than ever before. The right hon. Gentleman is right to suggest that we need standards that are achievable, so that we can let people in and fill the vacant spaces in the fishing sector.

[Margaret Ferrier]

Labour shortages have put the processing side of the industry under increased pressure, too. A Scottish seafood processing business that supplies fish for the Queen said last month that it is having to turn away business as a result and desperately needs Government support. Does the hon. Member agree that this part of the industry must not be overlooked or forgotten when it comes to Government support packages?

[Jim Shannon]

The hon. Lady is absolutely right. In my constituency, it is not just about catching fish offshore; it is also about the processing that we have on land. Everyone who speaks will refer to that. The right hon. Member for Scarborough and Whitby referred to it in his intervention, and it is really important that we focus on the sector as a whole.

As I draw my speech to a close, I do not want to set the scene of Northern Ireland’s fishing sector as one of gloom and doom. However, those involved in the sector find it ironic that at this time of the year, the focus of intervention has not been on the annual round of total allowable catch negotiations, which are ongoing between the UK, EU and other coastal states. Fishing opportunities for nephrops, cod, haddock and herring in the Irish sea remain critical, and a solution to the abundance of spurdog is a priority for the management of the Irish sea’s ecosystem. As always, our fishermen face serious challenges every day.

Being a fisherman is probably the most dangerous job that anyone can do in the United Kingdom. There is a high level of fatalities, and fishermen go out in all weather. When I go to the harbour and visit fishermen, I can never really get my head around how people can sleep in the foetal position in about 3 feet of space while their boat is being tossed about in the water. That is the job that fishermen do. They acknowledge that there are more challenges on the horizon, driven by climate change targets and the increasingly shared nature of the marine environment. The marine protected areas, the promotion of offshore wind energy, and blue carbon are among the new issues on which our industry, through the Northern Ireland Fishermen’s Federation and the good offices of Alan McCulla and Harry Wick, is seeking to be proactive.

There is a future for the sector in Northern Ireland. Let us be positive, and let us have the glass half full as we look forward. It can be done; we just need the will to do it. This is clearly spelled out in the DAERA report on the fisheries and seafood development programme, published earlier this year by my colleague Edwin Poots, the Northern Ireland Minister with responsibility for fisheries.

The UK has become an independent coastal state. Let us be proud of our fishing industry, rather than create a sense that it is expendable. It is not expendable, and it must never be expendable. It creates jobs and is a massive earner for my constituency of Strangford, as the Minister knows. It is an incredible earner for Ardglass, Kilkeel and Northern Ireland as a whole. As I said earlier, our products go all over the UK, the EU and the world, so we are keen and anxious to find out where we are in relation to the fishing sector in the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland—particularly in Northern Ireland, from my perspective.

Actions speak louder than words. With that being the case, I look forward to the Minister’s response. I hope her words turn into actions, and then we will all benefit.

Automated External Defibrillators: Public Access

Debate between Margaret Ferrier and Jim Shannon

Thursday 18th November 2021 Westminster Hall

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

I beg to move,

That this House has considered public access to Automatic External Defibrillators.

I am pleased to see many hon. Members from all political parties in the Chamber. I will also say, because I mean it, that I am especially pleased to see the Minister in her place and I look forward to her response. She understands the importance of the debate. Each hon. Member who speaks will illustrate the strength of the need for the Government and—dare I say it—civil servants to understand the importance of the debate. If they understand it, and if the Government press the issue, the general public will be glad to see it happening.

It is a pleasure to have this debate before the Second Reading of the Automated External Defibrillators (Public Access) Bill on 10 December. I thank the Backbench Business Committee for granting my application. The intention is to deliver public access to AEDs across the whole United Kingdom. All MPs will have at least one person in their constituency who has been saved by an AED.

I am grateful to the hon. Member for Sedgefield (Paul Howell) who co-sponsored the debate and supported me in making it happen. I appreciate his co-operation, partnership and friendship. He made representations to the Committee alongside me and shared his own experience, which he will tell us about shortly. He has referred to the dedicated work of his constituent Councillor David Sutton-Lloyd, who advocates and lobbies with him about the importance of awareness and public availability of these lifesaving devices.

[Margaret Ferrier (Rutherglen and Hamilton West) (Ind)]

In my constituency, Councillor Mo Razzaq has been championing the cause and has fought hard to improve provision, which has led to a community defibrillator installation outside Strachan Craft Butchers in Blantyre. Does the hon. Gentleman agree that locally elected representatives can be instrumental to the cause?

--- Later in debate ---

[Jim Shannon]

I do agree, and I think there would be a positive consensus in the House on that. I will give an example later of how an AED in a school saved a life in my constituency. I have two examples to illustrate the point.

I have seen over the past year how we have begun to address the importance of CPR training, to which the hon. Lady referred, and AED availability. I agree with her. The AED in Newtownards is in the street, but it could have been in the shop, which closes at six o’clock, so from 6 pm to 9 the next morning it would not have been available. The hon. Lady is right about what should be done.

The right hon. Member for South Staffordshire (Gavin Williamson) backed the campaign, in his former role as Secretary of State for Education, to see all schools equipped with defibrillators. I believe that has been accomplished. I was encouraged by that, as we are trying to do it back home as well. However, it is not just about primary schools; it is about having AEDs available in streets, shopping centres, Government and local government buildings, and leisure centres. The Bill says that they should be available, but it does not put a cost factor on it. To make this happen is a win-win for the Minister and the Government.

I will explain where the campaign came from. The Minister will remember that we met with Mark King, of the Oliver King Foundation, whose 12-year-old son Oliver died of cardiac arrest during a school swimming lesson in 2011. I was incredibly moved, as I know the Minister was, by Mark’s experience. I was motivated too by his commitment to installing AEDs as far and wide across the community as possible. I know that he will be watching the debate today, and it will be a poignant one for him. Throughout this journey, I have stayed in touch with the foundation. I want to remind Members that this Bill was inspired by a young fella called Oliver King—a 12-year-old—and that we bring this debate to the Chamber in the hope of ensuring that Oliver’s legacy continues.

I am encouraged that in Northern Ireland, the Education (Curriculum) (CPR and AED) Bill has reached its second stage. This is not about politics; it is about the issue. That is the way I see things. I am a political person, of course, but what drives me is asking what is the right way to do things—that is important. One of my colleagues who is not of my party, Colin McGrath MLA, has brought the Bill to the Northern Ireland Assembly. We have worked together; he was keen to know what I was doing and I was keen to assist him back home in the Assembly. He has expressed his best wishes for the Bill, because it is just as important for children to acquire the CPR and AED skills that the hon. Member for Mid Derbyshire referred to, as it is for adults. It is good to see a devolved Administration talking, taking this on and encouraging others to follow suit.

I believe in acts and not just words. Very shortly, the hon. Member for High Peak (Robert Largan) and I will be doing an AED instruction session in the House, when we are able to. I am not sure when that will be, but we are hoping to do it this side of Christmas—the idea is to have a date that coincides with the Bill’s Second Reading on 10 December. It will be with David Higginbottom of Driver First Assist. My staff and I back home will also be taking part in a CPR and AED training session in the office in Newtownards led by Mrs Pauline Waring, superintendent of the St John Ambulance Dufferin Cadet Unit in Bangor. She, along with many other volunteer leaders, does incredible work with St John cadets by training them in first aid and lifesaving skills. It is always good to remember that the St John Ambulance is voluntarily staffed and funded by its own efforts; I encourage Members to engage with their local St John Ambulance if they can.

The hon. Member for Sedgefield, in his representation to the Committee for this debate, raised the very important point that many people are afraid of AEDs. They should not be, and that is why the training is important. Right away, people ask, “Will I know what to do?”. They will know what to do, because it is quite simple. I am not being smart by saying that; the instructions are really easy—they are easy for children to use as well, if that is necessary. People will learn that AEDs and CPR cannot do any harm; they can only do good. That is the motivation. I refer again to my message of hope for this debate, because anything that equips and inspires our young—anyone, in fact—to do good for the community carries the spirit of hope.

I want to raise some important facts about AEDs and CPR because they are two of the links in the “chain of survival” referred to in the UK Resuscitation Council’s updated guidelines. The third link is targeted temperature management. I want to touch on TTM here because I have been made aware of how this impacts on the recovery process. While the focus of this debate is on promoting the prevalence and availability of AEDs in public spaces and buildings, it remains essential that we consider the whole “chain of survival” once a person has experienced a cardiac arrest and been resuscitated.

In my constituency of Strangford one Saturday afternoon at a football match, one of the supporters collapsed at the side of the pitch. I spoke about this at the debate on the ten-minute rule Bill in February. What saved that man was the fact that the club had a defibrillator at all its matches. That is characteristic of all football matches in my region. People were able to resuscitate that man and he is alive today because the Portavogie football team and one of its staff members were able to get him back. He is alive today and can still attend football matches.

I want to give another example, but I am conscious of the time and other Members want to speak. A father was outside a school after leaving his children there. Unfortunately, he then had a heart attack. The children were inside and did not know what was happening to their daddy. The school had a defibrillator and, again, access to an AED saved that man’s life—he is alive today. Not only is he alive; he is able to continue taking his children to school.

I have given two examples, and I know that other Members will have lots of their own. It is hard not to get enthused about this issue, because of the clear benefits. I have referred to Christian Eriksen who collapsed at the football match. I acknowledge and praise the hard work and unfailing efforts of the Minister, who brought forward legislation in 2016 and 2019. Her support is needed if we are to get this done.

In May 2021, the Italian Government passed legislation requiring all offices open to the public with more than 15 employees, transport hubs, railway stations, airports, sports centres and educational establishments—schools, universities and all those places—to have public access to AEDs. In France, a Bill was passed in 2018 requiring almost all buildings where people gather to have access to an AED, including restaurants and shopping centres. It went a stage further by including holiday centres, places of worship, covered car parks and even mountain refuges. In Singapore, AEDs are carried in taxis.

In this House, we are at an important stage. We have more AEDs per head than across the whole of the country—that is not a criticism, Mr Hollobone. I am not saying we should not have them, but I would like to see that replicated everywhere else.

[Margaret Ferrier]

Following cardiac arrest, for each minute that passes the chances of survival fall by a massive 20%. Outside urban areas, and certainly in very rural locations, ambulance call-out times are often much longer than a matter than minutes. Does the hon. Member agree that provision needs to be prioritised in rural areas?

[Jim Shannon]

I certainly do. Living in a rural area as I do, I know the hon. Lady is absolutely right. I would hope and expect that to be the case. I want to give others the opportunity to speak and will make my closing comments now.

Let us remember why we are here today. We are here because there are currently over 30,000 out-of-hospital cardiac arrests in the United Kingdom each year. Of those people, only one out of 10 will survive. I put it to the Minister, the Government and civil servants that I want—indeed, I think we all want—the other nine to survive as well. How can they survive? They can survive if we have access to AEDs in the places where people are, including in rural places. That is why we must push this forward.

What value do we put on a life? A typical defibrillator for the community can cost £800. The Library notes refer to the cost being between £600 and £2,500. However, across Northern Ireland, with the efforts of all the charities and groups I have mentioned, the defibrillators are already in place. I have also mentioned the efforts of organisations such as the Premier League and the Education Ministers here in Westminster and back home in Northern Ireland, and I suspect the same is true in Scotland and Wales as well. That is why, when the legislation is introduced, it will be to encourage those who have not yet gone to that extra stage to make sure that there are defibrillators. That is why this debate is incredibly important. If the cost is £600 or, as it is in Northern Ireland, £800, that is a small price for the Government and the private sector to pay potentially to save lives.

Is it not right that every leisure centre should have a defibrillator? Is it not right that there should be one in the centre of every town? Is it not right that defibrillators should be available and accessible in restaurants, and outside buildings for times when people are out and about, including to visit pubs and restaurants at night time?

There is a campaign called The Circuit, which registers all community AEDs. The sale of AEDs rose significantly after the Euros incident, and when AEDs are registered on a central database, emergency call handlers can direct callers to the nearest AED. The objective of this Bill is to have an AED within three minutes of everyone. That is what the hon. Member for Rutherglen and Hamilton West wants to have; indeed, I think it is what we all want to have.

The Bill does not cost the Government anything. I have said it three times now; forgive me for saying it three times, but I want to emphasise it and say why it is important. Here is a Bill that delivers across the whole of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. This Bill will save lives, which is why it is important.

I say to my hon. Friends—all the Members here are my hon. Friends; to be truthful, on this issue all Members are probably hon. Friends whether they are in the Chamber or outside it—that this proposed legislation is neither to the left nor the right of politics. It is about what is right and what is wrong. It is about our whole society and equipping it with the means to save lives. Can there be a more civilised or caring thing to do? If words could make the difference—I will use a quotation, but before I do so I will say one other thing.

Today, this House can support the campaign to deliver AEDs, at no cost to the Government. AEDs save lives. That is the purpose of the Bill—it is to save lives. It is about those nine out of 10 who die every year because the AEDs were not available. It is as simple as that. It is about saving lives. For me, that is the crux of it.

I say that life and death are in the hands of the Minister and her Government, and they would seem to be in the hands of civil servants too. So what action will those hands—the hands of Ministers, the Government and civil servants—take in the coming days when the Bill comes back to the House on 10 December?

I will close with very poignant words. I know that the Minister knows that they refer to wee Oliver King. His dad said, and I have never forgotten it:

“Had the swimming pool had an AED, my son, Oliver, would still be here today.”

That is what we are here for.

Violence against Christians: Central African Countries

Debate between Margaret Ferrier and Jim Shannon

Thursday 23rd September 2021 Westminster Hall

[Jim Shannon]

The hon. Lady is absolutely right. I thank her for that intervention, because her words are salient to this debate and underline the issue.

Events in sub-Saharan Africa have accounted for much of that persecution and discrimination. There has been a significant increase in the number of violent attacks against Christians perpetrated by Islamic extremists. In Niger, Mali, the Central African Republic, Sudan and Nigeria—I will focus on Nigeria, as others probably will—the situation has become increasingly worrying. Many of us in this House—everyone who is here today—try to highlight the shocking and rapidly deteriorating situation in Nigeria, where the number of Christians killed last year rose by 60% on the year before. That illustrates the issue that the hon. Lady referred to. Open Doors states that things are getting worse, not better, because the number of people being murdered because of their faith has increased greatly. The stories of what is happening on the ground are horrifying. More Christians are being killed in Nigeria than anywhere else in the world. That is worrying for us all.

[Margaret Ferrier (Rutherglen and Hamilton West) (Ind)]

Sudan recently abolished the death penalty for apostacy—a step forward in the region, which I hope we will see in more countries in the near future. Although there has been resistance to such huge changes, it has been considerably less in recent years. Does the hon. Gentleman have any thoughts about how tolerance of religion can be built upon?

[Jim Shannon]

Over the last few days, the hon. Lady and I seem to have followed each other in each debate. I thank her for coming along and for her intervention. The APPG that I am very privileged to chair speaks up for those with Christian faith, those with other faiths and those with no faith. That is what we try to promote. It is about tolerance and understanding people of other faiths, but it is also about accepting other faiths and people of different religious viewpoints. That is something that we all need to take on board.

The hon. Lady referred to Sudan. There have certainly been some stories in the press recently about an attempted coup that was thwarted. I welcome the steps that Sudan took, but what they have done needs to be replicated elsewhere in the region.

Violence is increasingly bleeding—and I use the word intentionally—over the borders into an already destabilised central Africa. This region, in the shadow of its more powerful neighbours, has all too often been overlooked, both by—I say it respectfully—the UK Parliament and by the wider international community. We must not let the displacement and killing of hundreds of thousands of Christians go almost unchallenged by parliamentarians. That is why we are having this debate, and I am very grateful to the Backbench Business Committee for granting time for it.

--- Later in debate ---

[Jim Shannon]

I thank the hon. Lady for her intervention. I remember the abduction of the children. I think of Leah Sharibu. She is still missing—a young Christian girl who had never converted and was therefore kidnapped and imprisoned. Her mum, Rebecca, would love to see her back. A day does not pass that I do not pray for the return of Leah Sharibu back to her mum. Perhaps the Minister could give some indication—this is one of the questions that I wanted to ask, so I thank the hon. Lady for it—of what we can do in conjunction with the Nigerian Government to ensure that young boys and girls are not abducted from school.

Some countries in central Africa are in the unenviable position of being among the poorest in the world. I understand those issues: poverty often becomes violence, because there are people prepared to take advantage of it. Several of these states have spent much of the past decade trapped in violent conflict, governed by people who exert little or no control over vast swathes of their countries.

Increasingly, Islamic groups such as Boko Haram and Islamic State’s west African arm are expanding their terrorist campaigns against Christians eastwards, even into areas that have in the past been considered peaceful. Analysts warn that the region’s widespread poverty greatly increases the risk of the radicalisation—Islamist or otherwise—of these youthful and rapidly expanding populations. The region is an example of the fact that it is not only minority religious and belief groups that face persecution for their peacefully held beliefs; those belonging to dominant faith groups can also become the victims.

To return to the matter raised by the hon. Member for East Renfrewshire, more than 95% of people living in the Democratic Republic of Congo are Christian, yet Open Doors warns of soaring violence against Christians in that country, with DRC rising 17 places up the charity’s world watch list this year. That is the one league table that one does not want to rise up—one wants to be at the bottom of it. The Christian population in the DRC and their churches are said to be at huge risk of violence in the east of the country, where the Islamic extremist rebel group that calls itself the Allied Democratic Forces operates—its name itself is wrong.

Violence has left more than 1 million people internally displaced and has seen countless Christians become the victims of killings, kidnappings, forced labour and torture. Christian men are forcibly recruited into militia groups, while women often face rape and sexual slavery. It causes me great angst to recall that my brothers and sisters are subjected to this. Sometimes we become desensitised to the horror of rape and sexual slavery until we hear a story such as that of the young woman raped at the age of 13, passed on to be married to bring her into a “true faith”, according to her abductor, or passed on to be used—these are the words used by her family—as a pair of shoes to be tried on by whoever wants to try them on. These are not simply words: words are the way in which we try to explain such experiences, experiences that children suffer through, and while words in this Chamber cannot change those experiences, perhaps they can lead to change that will prevent them from happening again. That is what I would like to see.

Over the northern border lies the Central African Republic, which has been occupied by various armed militia groups since 2013. Many of those militias specifically target Christians, leading to mass displacement of people. There was a shocking surge in sectarian violence in the run-up to parliamentary and presidential elections last December, which led to a further 120,000 people fleeing home. Armed groups are responsible for the vast majority of human rights violations being perpetrated in the Central African Republic, including violating people’s right to freedom of religion or belief. Those groups continue to operate across the country without any restraint whatever, so we need a concerted plan by the Governments of all these countries for how we can help Christians in these areas, but also a plan from our Government and our Minister, to whom we look for support and leadership. I am quite sure that that will be forthcoming.

[Margaret Ferrier]

Lockdown saw an increase in domestic violence rates across the world, even here in the UK, but for vulnerable Christian women in central African countries, the danger has intensified, with increased reports of kidnappings and forced marriages—a devastating removal of any autonomy. Does the hon. Gentleman agree that there need to be aid efforts focused specifically on women and girls?

[Jim Shannon]

I absolutely agree. I know that the Government intend to address the issue of violence against women and children, and if domestic abuse has risen in this country throughout the coronavirus pandemic, that is even more the case in countries such as the Central African Republic, Nigeria, Niger, Mali and Sudan.

Christian converts in the Central African Republic are ostracised by their local community and even face persecution from their immediate family members, who often force them to renounce their Christian faith through violence. They are not just asked to renounce their Christian faith: they are physically abused to make it happen. Christian leaders who have publicly denounced the violence have been threatened, and churches have been repeatedly attacked, ransacked and burned down.

Across Nigeria, there has been a significant number of attacks on church buildings and others. Aid to the Church in Need has said that displaced people are sheltering in monasteries and mission stations, where priests and religious leaders risk their own lives to try to protect others from persecution. I commend all the aid charities that are helping out, including Open Doors—to which the shadow spokesperson for the Scottish National party, the hon. Member for East Renfrewshire, referred—and many others such as Release International, the Barnabas Fund, and Aid to the Church in Need.

It is important to stress that Muslims and other faith groups also suffer greatly as a result of this violence, and in some regions are even the primary victims. A significant percentage of the Central African Republic’s minority Muslim population has also fled across the borders: more than a quarter of a million refugees have fled to neighbouring Cameroon, for example. The problem starts in the Central African Republic, but it rapidly spreads, and Cameroon now becomes part of it. Cameroon itself faces an increased threat from Boko Haram, which is active in the north of the country, killing and kidnapping Christians for their faith with remarkable ease.

Security injunctions in the region have set heavy restrictions on churches that have already seen much of their congregations flee. Female converts from Islam are often forced into marriage with non-Christians there, and Christian women are threatened with abduction by Boko Haram. Religious leaders in the anglophone regions, some of whom are accused of supporting separatists, repeatedly accuse security forces of burning churches and desecrating religious spaces.

I believe there are actions to be taken; there are questions to be asked, and answers to be given by some of those security forces, who seem to be using their positions to enforce those illegal and criminal activities against Christians—all this despite Cameroon’s constitution, which prohibits religious harassment and guarantees freedom of religion and worship. That is a question for Cameroon to answer.

The international community must work to end the culture of impunity surrounding such attacks. People in the region have grown weary of the near-continuous conflict and the lack of law and order. They often have no trust in the institutions that claim to govern them. Those failing states then become the breeding grounds for further radicalisation.

I implore my Minister and my Government to provide support to the region’s Governments to fully investigate reports of kidnapping, violence and killings, and to bring those responsible to justice. The hon. Member for East Kilbride, Strathaven and Lesmahagow (Dr Cameron) referred to the groups already there. The non-governmental organisations, Christian churches and charities, those who stand up for persecuted Christians and those involved in human rights issues are all there, and they would be able to provide an evidential base that would fully justify actions taken against those responsible.

Those administering UK aid in the region face stark choices. In central Africa, we see the intersection of great need, staggering volumes of people displaced by violence and severe cuts to official development assistance. My position on aid—like that of many others in this Chamber, I suspect—is clear: we did not want to see the aid being cut, because we felt it would have a detrimental effect on those who need it most, but none the less we need to make that point very clearly.

Decarbonising Aviation

Debate between Margaret Ferrier and Jim Shannon

Tuesday 21st September 2021 Westminster Hall

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

I thank the hon. Member for Putney (Fleur Anderson) for setting the scene for this debate. There have been some incredible contributions so far, but I want to take a slightly different angle. I agree with the points that other hon. Members have made, and I hope the Minister’s response will encompass some of my thoughts about how we move forward.

I am the MP for Strangford, as people know—if they do not know that after 10 or 11 years, there is something seriously wrong in this place—and I am a frequent flier because I have to be. The fact is that Irish sea divides us water-wise—the Northern Ireland protocol also divides us, but I will not mention that—so for me to come here to work, I have leave from Belfast City airport and fly over here. The journey from leaving the office to getting here takes about three and a half hours. The flight takes approximately an hour. I do that every week, and so do other right hon. and hon. Members—colleagues and friends in my party and others. The hon. Members from the Social Democratic and Labour party and the Alliance party travel in the same way because it gets us here within a certain period of time. The alternatives are to go by boat or take the ferry over and drive down. We could do that if we had two or three days to spare, but it eats into our time as constituency MPs. I am a very active one, as others in this House are—I am not saying I am the only one. The fact is that our time is precious and we use it accordingly, so I am a frequent flier because I have to be.

[Margaret Ferrier]

On the back of the Secretary of State’s statement to the House yesterday, we heard about the aviation industry’s worries about its ability to recover from the economic impact of the past year or so. Obviously, it is equally important that it contributes to the net zero goal. Does the hon. Gentleman agree that the Government must ensure that it is properly supported in its work to decarbonise and is not faced with further unaffordable costs?

[Jim Shannon]

That is exactly what I am going to say. I think there are options for the aircraft sector. I want to make a plea for Belfast City airport, Belfast International airport and City of Derry airport—all integral parts of my economy back home. People in Strangford can travel 25 minutes up the road to Belfast City airport, and many of my constituents work in that airport and at Bombardier—Spirit AeroSystems, as it now is— manufacturing aeroplanes and wings. It is very important that we look at this sector, which is an economic provider for my constituency. If the hon. Member for Angus (Dave Doogan) is looking for work, I understand that engineering jobs are available in Northern Ireland. If he wants to move that way, I am sure we would be more than glad to take him away from Scotland.

I am a supporter of our aviation industry, and in my opinion it goes hand in hand with sustainability. The sustainability of aviation depends on its ability to adapt and find ways forward, and that can only come with clear and adequate support from this place and from our Minister. I greatly respect him and appreciate his hard efforts for this sector. I know from personal engagement with him that he is very committed to it and that his response will be very much along those lines. We can talk about environmental issues—I am an environmentalist—until the cows come home, but if we are not prepared to put the work in to milk the cows, all the talk has been pointless.

Aviation is a major employer in my constituency. It is a world-class, innovative aerospace sector that generates jobs for pilots, baggage handlers and tourism operators, not just in the constituency of Strangford but around the greater Belfast area and across Northern Ireland. All are invested in reaching our goals and targets for sustainability, which is important. Bombardier has a factory site in Newtownards in my constituency, as well as sites in east Belfast, Newtonabbey and elsewhere. I understand the importance of Bombardier/Spirit in aircraft manufacture. Pre-covid, UK aviation employed over 900,000 people in the UK. A lot of our constituents are depending on us to get this right.

When I put my views forward today, I put them forward in a constructive fashion. I am not saying nobody else is, by the way. I am trying to find a way to balance environmental issues with the need to have an aviation sector that can create jobs for the future—to bring the aviation sector into the future with carbon-neutral goals and the support that is necessary to achieve them. That is where we are all united: we have the same goals. We look to our Minister and our Government to deliver on them.

It is clear that stronger partnerships between the United Kingdom Government, the aviation sector and key low-carbon innovation partners are required, and I would love to see them. Maybe the Minister can give us some ideas about how that would happen. Jet zero is possible, but only if the industry is supported by Government. I know that we often say that, but until we get to the stage where it is sustainable, when Government financial support can probably ease off, that is how it will work.

We can, of course, simply require changes to be made, the bare minimum will be done and corners will have to be cut from an industry that is more insecure than ever before. However, if we take this challenge together, we can achieve lasting change and do the right things. That is what we should do.

There is no sense in placing so much pressure on businesses that they cease production within the United Kingdom and simply move to other bases elsewhere, because then we lose the jobs, we lose the economic opportunity and we find ourselves in an untenable position. We should be working alongside them. Other bases and other companies, of course, may not have the environmental measures that are more costly than their profit margins allow. The question is how we do that, and how we encourage and retain the jobs. If we insist on costly changes but ensure that there is support to make them viable, there is an appetite within the industry to embrace sustainable environmental change. That is what we are all saying. The hon. Member for Putney referred to that, as did other previous speakers, and those who come after me will probably say the same.

Sustainable Aviation has highlighted a number of issues where it believes Government support is the key to success, and makes two suggestions. It says:

“Increased investment in the Aerospace Technology Institute (ATI) is needed, to enable the technological innovations that will make net zero flight a reality, e.g. hydrogen power. The current endpoint of the ATI programme is March 2026, and budgetary commitments are already being made out to then. An extension of funding is vital if the ATI is to continue to fulfil its remit and support clean growth.”

Perhaps the Minister will update us on that.

My hon. Friend the Member for North Antrim (Ian Paisley) and I are meeting the Secretary of State for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy on Thursday to discuss hydrogen, which previous speakers have spoken about. There are some fantastic thoughts and ideas in North Antrim that will help not only aviation firms but lots of companies. If we look to where the opportunities are, we can achieve change.

With the Government’s recent funding support, aerospace modernisation can help to deliver better environmental performance ahead of more radical innovations. Aerospace is critical national infrastructure that has not been fundamentally upgraded since the 1950s, and a full modernisation programme must be delivered in time. I would like to understand the Government’s strategy on these two critical issues. I know the Minister will give a constructive response to the debate and assure us that, behind the demands, there will be support. That is the way it works. We have ideas, and we need the Government to help us to get to the point where we can achieve a future that enhances the industry, protects the environment and, crucially, protects UK-based jobs in every aspect of aviation. Jobs are as important in my constituency as they are in everyone else’s.

Social Security (Up-rating of Benefits) Bill

Debate between Margaret Ferrier and Jim Shannon

2nd reading
Monday 20th September 2021 Commons Chamber

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

It is a pleasure to speak in this debate and to follow others who have made points very clearly. I support trying to get our finances on an even keel after the massive unexpected expenses of covid, yet something within me balks at what again seems to be a raid on pensioners’ incomes. Is it not so that the Library statistics outline that the potential costs of uprating the triple-locked elements of the state pension by 2.5%, instead of 8.3%, saves £5 billion in state pension expenditure in 2022-23? That seems to be the greater consideration, rather than fairness and equity. Perhaps the Government should be giving more indications of the effect, especially on pensioners.

I spoke to the Minister before the debate. He was kind to come to confirm some matters with me. When he winds up the debate, will he confirm the impact, how this Bill will affect Northern Ireland and how the process will go forward? Northern Ireland pensioners are paying more for products due to the intransigence of the EU perhaps, and they need this additional funding to pay sharply rising costs. Items that cost £1 just a while ago now cost £1.29. We must address the deficit, but that cannot be done fairly through overly taxing those who have paid all their lives and having them shoulder more of the burden than those who can afford to pay more.

I endorse the comment of the hon. Member for North Ayrshire and Arran (Patricia Gibson) on the WASPI women; my constituency very much falls into the category of others. I think her words were “poorer in retirement”, and I see some of my constituents in that same place.

[Margaret Ferrier (Rutherglen and Hamilton West) (Ind)]

I want to raise the plight of the 4% of UK pensioners who are excluded from the Bill and have had their state pensions frozen because they happen to live in the wrong country. All pensioners who have paid their dues should be entitled to the full uprated state pension, yet half a million British pensioners living around the world have been left behind year on year. Does the hon. Member agree that it is disgraceful to be leaving our pensioners in that situation without dignity, financial security and respect and that the Government must address those frozen pensions?

[Jim Shannon]

I wholeheartedly endorse that. It is always good to have these debates to which others bring their knowledge and information, and the hon. Lady highlights something that clearly needs to be addressed. Perhaps the Minister can give us an indication on that when he concludes the debate.

We should be cementing, investing and encouraging business growth that pays into the Treasury in a natural manner. The hon. Member for North East Fife (Wendy Chamberlain) referred to her reasoned amendment, which I think shows what those of us on the Opposition Benches are thinking. This is a difficult topic, and I am aware of the pressure of covid-19 on the economy and how my grandchildren—and perhaps their children—may be paying for it throughout their lifetimes. However, I am concerned about how we recoup the money. It cannot be through overly taxing those who have paid all their lives and seeing them shoulder the burden more than those who can afford to pay more. We need—this seems to be a slogan—to stop squeezing the middle class. We should be investing in and encouraging business growth.

Others have referred to pension credit. When I am on the doorstep or at a social occasion, there is not an occasion when I do not speak to someone in that bracket and ask them, “Are you getting all your benefits? Are you getting your tenant’s allowance? Are you getting your pension credit?” Unfortunately, more often than not, many of those people are not getting their benefits. The Government have a role to play in ensuring that those who are not aware of a benefit know that they should be getting it. Will the Minister remind us of where we stand on that?

The figures for Northern Ireland are quite scary: 15% of pensioners—some 43,000 people—are in fuel poverty and overall poverty. That concerns me. Perhaps the Minister can address that. The right hon. Member for East Ham (Stephen Timms) when referring to universal credit mentioned in passing his reasoned amendment, which was not selected. He also said that, whenever furlough ends, many families will find themselves in a difficult position. I subscribe to that view, as does probably everyone on the Opposition Benches. In Northern Ireland, we are facing gas bill rises of some 35% as winter comes in hard, and those who live in Housing Executive or housing association accommodation that has been converted to gas heating face the double whammy of not just how their pensions are affected but by the cut to universal credit, and they will be squeezed more than ever. Pensioners will therefore be impacted unfairly. This winter will see increasing pressure on pensioners and many more than the 15% will fall into that category.

The right hon. Member for East Ham also referred to those in work, and I will give one quick example from a constituent. This lady said:

“You make a third of your money when you do overtime for the benefit you lose, so I am paid £3 an hour in real terms. While I do take the overtime offered to me if I am able to do it, I can also understand why others don’t. Making up £20 a week is not as easy as many would have us believe today.”

I have long opposed the cut to universal credit, especially as we are coming into winter, when there are additional costs. For the sake of working families in my constituency, I must add my voice to those calling for the money saved by this uprating change and other methods to be factored into the ability of families to afford the gas price increase. We are thinking of capping the pension increase for the most vulnerable sector of people without a real review of how their living costs will increase this year. I do not feel that we can comfortably do that with the limited information provided. Given the increase in the cost of living, as I think the right hon. Member for East Ham said, many will face the stark choice of whether they have a meal or turn the heat on. Those are cold realities for many people.

As we see rises in the cost of living in Northern Ireland, with 20% rises in the cost of food and fuel in the next few weeks, I say with great respect to the Minister and the Government that I must support my pensioners and stand with them. I will support the reasoned amendment and oppose the Bill. The Bill is not right, so I cannot support it.

Elgin Marbles

Debate between Margaret Ferrier and Jim Shannon

Monday 2nd March 2020 Commons Chamber

[Margaret Ferrier (Rutherglen and Hamilton West) (SNP)]

Thank you, Mr Speaker, for the opportunity to debate a subject that has long been of historical interest but has taken on new significance in the current political climate.

The Elgin, or Parthenon, marbles are one of the British Museum’s most notorious artefacts. In the early 1800s, Thomas Bruce, the seventh Earl of Elgin, gained access to the temple of the Parthenon and other buildings that comprise the Acropolis in Athens. With a team of assistants, Thomas Bruce removed many items of significant cultural interest, including 57 slabs from the frieze of the Parthenon. The excavation was completed in 1812, and the marbles were eventually sold to the British Government in 1816 and placed in the British Museum.

The legality of the excavations that Elgin performed remains fraught with controversy to this day. At the time of the excavations, Greece was ruled by the Ottoman empire, and the Parthenon itself was used as a military fort by the Ottomans. The vulnerable position that that imperial occupation placed on Greece, coupled with Elgin’s privileged position, made it easier for him take the action that he took in removing the figures, metopes and frieze panels from the Parthenon. Elgin claim to have obtained a firman, or written permit, from the sultan to access the Acropolis in carrying out the removal of sections of the Parthenon frieze, as well as other parts of the Acropolis. Some allege that Elgin bribed the Turkish authorities to obtain permission to enter the Acropolis, while others suggest that the exchange of gifts between Elgin and the sultan was customary at the time, given Elgin’s position as British ambassador to Constantinople.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

I thank the hon. Lady for giving way; I asked before the debate for her permission to intervene. Does she not agree that the significance of having the Elgin marbles in situ in the British Museum is that that gives a taste of, and indeed encourages people to make the journey to, historically and culturally rich Greece, particularly Athens, to see more, and that this must be part of any discussions regarding any return of the Elgin marbles to the people there?

[Margaret Ferrier]

I agree that many visitors will have enjoyed a visit to the British Museum and marvelled at these fantastic sculptures, but the hon. Gentleman will not be surprised to discover that I believe they should actually be repatriated to Athens where they could be appreciated in full in their original context. However, I thank him for his intervention.

The only record of the firman that we have is an Italian translation of the document, and the veracity of the document remains heavily disputed. Although a Select Committee of the House of Commons eventually voted to purchase the marbles from Elgin in 1816, the stand-out feature of the Committee’s questioning of Elgin was the vagueness of his responses regarding the permission given to take the Parthenon sculptures. According to Geoffrey Robertson QC’s excellent book, “Who Owns History?”, Elgin was unable to produce the firman during the Committee’s consideration of the purchase of the marbles and, astonishingly, told the Committee that he never kept his own personal copy of the permissions he was given.

Those admissions by Elgin himself led many people to denounce his actions in taking the marbles, even among those who supported their purchase by the British Government. Lord Byron was one of the most vociferous critics of Elgin, denouncing his actions in the strongest terms:

“Dull is the eye that will not weep to see

Thy walls defaced, thy mouldering shrines removed

By British hands, which it had best behoved

To guard those relics ne’er to be restored”.

Elgin’s actions were not the only source of controversy at the time of the sale of the marbles to the British Government. The public’s reaction to Elgin receiving £35,000 from the Government—around £3.5 million in today’s money—was understandably angry. In the same year that the British Government purchased the marbles, a cartoon by George Cruikshank depicted a satirical figure of John Bull purchasing the marbles while his children cried out for bread. That is not the first time that the House of Commons has made decisions that benefit the privileged few at the expense of the many.

Whether or not the firman is authentic and the means used to obtain it were dubious or illegal, the legal position on the marbles has, to date, favoured their retention in the UK. The British Museum Act 1963 is the primary piece of legislation here, and it makes it clear that the objects and collections of the British Museum are held by its trustees. Disposal or selling of objects in the British Museum collection is forbidden except in limited circumstances, which include printed materials where duplicates exist or objects that were illegally looted by the Nazis.

The general principle of that legislation and subsequent amendments to it is designed to protect cultural assets and provide the proper independence between Government and museum trustees. Because the legislation is drawn up in that manner, the Greek Government have been disinclined to put the legal position to the test in international courts. However, there is scope for the British Museum Act to be amended to cover the specific circumstances of the repatriation of the Parthenon marbles. I believe that potential amendments to legislation should form part of a process of mediation and dialogue between the Greek Government and the UK Government regarding the future of the Parthenon sculptures.

I turn to some of the other arguments that are often used to justify the Elgin marbles staying in Britain. Those who argue for retention of the marbles use cultural preservation as a key support. Their argument, encapsulated in the universal museum declaration, effectively places immediate cultural preservation above considerations of the circumstances in which treasures and other artefacts of major cultural significance were acquired. Some go as far as to suggest that Elgin’s actions were heroic and that the marbles would have been destroyed had he not acted in the way that he did by bringing them to Britain.

I have some sympathy with the idea that, had they not been acquired by museums outwith their countries of origin, many of the world’s cultural treasures would have been lost. Sadly, we have seen some despicable acts of cultural vandalism in recent years. In Syria, we have seen Daesh’s wanton destruction of parts of Palmyra, the great mosque of Aleppo and the old city of Damascus, which are just a few of the culturally significant sites that have suffered in that brutal conflict. But to compare what has happened in Syria with the proposed repatriation of the Elgin marbles would be to compare apples and oranges. The parts of the Parthenon frieze that have been retained in Greece have survived two world wars, a civil war, a military dictatorship and bankruptcy of the Greek state.

Regardless of views on whether the marbles should be returned to Greece or remain in Britain, it is reasonable to suggest that they would be preserved and secured for many years to come. Both Greece and the UK can offer outstanding museum facilities to showcase the marbles, and the new Acropolis Museum has already demonstrated how that would work in practice. The argument on cultural preservation comes down to one question: artistically, does it make sense for the Parthenon marbles to be reunited, placing them in one location where they could be appreciated and admired the world over? That is not only the right thing to do; it would enable the marbles to be appreciated in the original context in which they were sculpted.