Joint Committee on Privacy and Injunctions

Lord Strathclyde Excerpts

Wednesday 25th January 2012 Lords Chamber

Moved by

[Lord Strathclyde]

That notwithstanding the resolution of this House of 27 June 2011, it be an instruction to the Joint Committee on Privacy and Injunctions that it should report by 15 March 2012.

Motion agreed, and a message was sent to the Commons.

House of Lords: Reform

Lord Strathclyde Excerpts

Tuesday 24th January 2012 Lords Chamber

[Lord Grocott]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what is their latest estimate of the cost of running a reformed House of Lords in the first transitional year of its operation.

[The Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster (Lord Strathclyde)]

My Lords, the costs of a reformed House will depend on a number of variables. In particular, both the net cost and total cost of salaries and allowances will depend on the transitional arrangements and the number of Members. We intend to consider the views of the Joint Committee before finalising our proposals for the reform of this House.

[Lord Grocott]

With respect to the Leader, that is not the most satisfying response I have had to a Question. I find it particularly odd that we have no figures when Governments of all persuasions manage to tell us how much an aircraft carrier will cost but cannot workout what 300 senators will cost. It is particularly unsatisfactory because the Deputy Prime Minister has already announced to the country that his flagship Bill in the next Session, announced ahead of the Queen’s Speech, will be a Lords reform Bill. He has apparently done this without having the faintest idea of what his project will cost. I hope that I might therefore ask the Leader, on behalf of the House, to speak to the Deputy Prime Minister and ask him please to give us the detailed costings with all those variables, which he must have. If he does not give us an answer, the suspicion will be that he knows it will cost a lot more than the present House and he is simply too embarrassed to tell us.

[Lord Strathclyde]

I am sorry if I disappointed the noble Lord, Lord Grocott. It may have been in his estimation an unsatisfactory reply, but that does not stop it being true. The fact is that the Government have not made a final decision on the arrangements for the House, particularly on the transitional arrangements or the size of the House. There is a process of pre-legislative scrutiny continuing under the excellent chairmanship of the noble Lord, Lord Richard, and until that process is over we will not be able to come up with these figures. However, as is perfectly normal, if a Bill is published after the Queen’s Speech in the next Session of Parliament, it will include a financial memorandum with a detailed breakdown of the costs of a new House.

[Lord Cormack]

But does my noble friend still hold to the view that an elected House would be more expensive than the present House? That being the case, and bearing in mind the current financial straits that the country is in, is it really a good use of public money to have a highly expensive elected House when, at the moment, we have a highly effective House that is capable of being reformed without being elected?

[Lord Strathclyde]

My Lords, there is no doubt that this is an effective House and a very good value House and therefore I hold to a view that I have made public in the past: that a reformed House, directly elected and with fully salaried Members, would cost more than the current House. However, it would have a legitimacy, and a power and authority, which this House does not have. I remind the House, as I have done many times, that at the last general election all three main parties carried a commitment in their manifestos to reform this House.

[Lord Hughes of Woodside]

My Lords—

[Lord Howarth of Newport]

Should not addiction to constitutional reform be treated with the same bracing cure as addiction to welfare benefits? Will the Government set a cap on the amount that ordinary, decent, hard-working British citizens are to be required to pay to support the constitutional reform dependency of the Liberal Democrats?

[Lord Strathclyde]

My Lords, the noble Lord speaks as though his own party did not stand on a manifesto of reform of your Lordships’ House, which it did.

[Lord Tyler]

My Lords, will my noble friend take due account of the very exaggerated estimates of the potential cost, which do not take into account the fact that the allowances of current Members of the House are untaxed while, presumably, a salaried Member of the new House would be taxed? Has my noble friend taken note of the fact that Mr Mark Harper, the Minister responsible for the Bill, has indicated to the Joint Committee in open session that at present a Member of this House based in London can take home more than an MP?

[Lord Strathclyde]

I agree with my noble friend on the question of taxation, and indeed with my honourable friend Mark Harper, the Minister in the House of Commons. However, I am not sure that that is a very useful comparison. After all, it would require a Peer living in London to turn up every single day, and one of the strengths of this House is that it is part-time and people choose to come when they feel that they have something of value to contribute.

[Lord Campbell-Savours]

My Lords, how do the Government’s proposals for reform fit in with rumours in the House of Commons that the Government are about to pack the House of Lords with an additional 50—perhaps even more than 50—coalition Peers? Where are they going to sit, where are they going to park and where are they going to have their offices?

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Strathclyde]

My Lords, I am sure that issues such as where new Peers may or may not park are at the top of the agenda in the highest echelons of the Government. I too have heard this rumour but I have no idea where it came from. I thought initially that it was something to do with the Cross Benches as there was a letter in one of the newspapers from a leading Cross-Bench Member. There is no plan to pack the House with at least 60 government supporters. It would look absurd and it would be absurd.

[Baroness Knight of Collingtree]

My Lords, if it becomes possible for that figure to come out—we all appreciate the difficulties that have been enunciated—can we be sure that, at the same time as it is published, figures for the expense of running the House of Commons and of running the current House of Lords are side by side with it?

[Lord Strathclyde]

My Lords, I understand the point that my noble friend is making. The comparative figures between this House and the House of Commons are already in the public domain and are well understood. As I said, this House provides very good value for money.

[Lord Kakkar]

My Lords, the noble Lord the Leader has placed great emphasis on the report of the Joint Committee scrutinising the draft Bill. What arrangements will be made for that report to be carefully scrutinised by your Lordships’ House in good time?

[Lord Strathclyde]

How to scrutinise the scrutineers, my Lords. I have not yet given great thought to how this House will do that, but there will be discussions in the usual channels. It is likely that in the new Session of Parliament we will find an opportunity at least to debate the Joint Committee’s report, and we will make an announcement in due course.

[Baroness Royall of Blaisdon]

My Lords, the noble Lord the Leader mentioned variables in relation to cost and I quite understand the variables. As the Joint Committee itself is looking at variables, may I ask the noble Lord whether the Joint Committee is looking at the variable costs?

[Lord Strathclyde]

My Lords, I am not responsible for the Joint Committee and nor are the Government. There are 26 members of the Joint Committee, including Members of the Cross Benches and a Bishop, so I am sure that if they wish to study the variables, in whichever shape or form they wish to, they will be able to do so and they will be able to attach figures to them.

Business of the House

Lord Strathclyde Excerpts

Thursday 19th January 2012 Lords Chamber

Moved by

[Lord Strathclyde]

That the debates on the Motions in the names of Lord Stoneham of Droxford and Lord Storey set down for today shall each be limited to two and a half hours.

Motion agreed.

Queen’s Diamond Jubilee

Lord Strathclyde Excerpts

Thursday 19th January 2012 Lords Chamber

[The Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster (Lord Strathclyde)]

My Lords, this year, 2012, marks the happy occasion of the Queen’s Diamond Jubilee. My right honourable friend the Leader of the House of Commons and I are today able to announce that an early celebration of this extraordinary anniversary will be the attendance of the two Houses on Her Majesty in Westminster Hall for the presentation of humble Addresses on the morning of Tuesday 20 March. I will move the necessary Motion for an Address a few days earlier on a date to be arranged through the usual channels. The ceremonial arrangements will be organised by the Gentleman Usher of the Black Rod in the usual way. I hope that the House joins me in looking forward to an important and happy event.

Planning: Naseby Wind Farm

Lord Strathclyde Excerpts

Tuesday 17th January 2012 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Parminter]

My Lords—

[The Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster (Lord Strathclyde)]

My Lords, I feel we should hear from my noble friend Lady Parminter.

Business of the House

Lord Strathclyde Excerpts

Thursday 12th January 2012 Lords Chamber

Moved By

[Lord Strathclyde]

That the debates on the motions in the names of Lord Wills and Baroness Smith of Basildon set down for today shall each be limited to 2½ hours.

Motion agreed.

Immigration (Biometric Registration) (Amendment) Regulations 2012

Lord Strathclyde Excerpts

Thursday 12th January 2012 Lords Chamber

Moved by

[Lord Strathclyde]

That the draft order, rules and regulations be referred to a Grand Committee.

Motions agreed.

Local Better Regulation Office (Dissolution and Transfer of Functions, Etc.) Order 2012

Lord Strathclyde Excerpts

Wednesday 11th January 2012 Lords Chamber

Moved By

[Lord Strathclyde]

That the draft order be referred to a Grand Committee.

Motion agreed.

European Union (Definition of Treaties) (Republic of Korea Free Trade Agreement) Order 2011

Lord Strathclyde Excerpts

Wednesday 11th January 2012 Lords Chamber

Moved By

[Lord Strathclyde]

That the draft order be referred to a Grand Committee.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Campbell-Savours]

My Lords, before we go down this route, could we just remember that we have a duty to secure the security of this institution? Difficult decisions have had to be taken and we should be very careful about rescinding them.

[The Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster (Lord Strathclyde)]

My Lords, I am well aware, as are most Members of the House, that this week there have been some difficulties in entering the car park. I know that Black Rod has received many representations—I expect that, even after today, he will continue to receive many further representations—and I urge noble Lords who believe that they can suggest improvements commensurate with providing the security of the House, as the noble Lord, Lord Campbell-Savours, has pointed out, to do so as early as possible.

I will have discussions with the Chairman of Committees and members of the relevant committees that made these decisions to see whether the review can be speeded up. I understand the difficulties that have taken place.

[Lord Peston]

I think I am right in saying that we are still a self-governing House and therefore that what my noble friend has asked the Leader of the House to do is a perfectly reasonable request. However, the Leader of the House has shown no sign that he intends to respond to that request. I sit on the Joint Committee on Security. This matter is not being driven by the security of this House but by the other place. There is no pressure for this from this House whatever. The Leader of the House has been asked to find some space so that colleagues can at least express their opinions. This is all he is being asked to do. The people involved in this think this is a done deal and have no intention of backing off no matter what the experiment shows. It is therefore vital that the Leader of the House should tell us that he will find space early next week so that we can all express our opinions.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Pearson of Rannoch]

My Lords, I am sure this has already occurred to any would-be terrorist, but what do the security arrangements of the House do about the river and the boats that go up and down it? My friend hired one of those boats the other day and was free to take suitcases on and off as she wished. If we cannot do anything about that, why do we carry on making entrance to this place more complicated and inconvenient?

[Lord Strathclyde]

I am not sure that the Floor of the House is the best place to discuss matters affecting the safety and security of the House.

In answer to the noble Lord, Lord Peston, nothing I said in my earlier reply was supposed to be discourteous to the noble Lord, Lord Barnett. This House is self-regulating. The decision was taken by various committees of the House that would not have been able to do so without its agreement. Perhaps the review could be done more quickly than in three months. Those noble Lords who have suggestions and ideas as to how we could improve the situation should write to Black Rod—or, indeed, raise it in their party meetings, which might be a better place than having a debate in this House.

Motion agreed.

Commission for Architecture and the Built Environment (Dissolution) Order 2012

Lord Strathclyde Excerpts

Tuesday 10th January 2012 Lords Chamber

Moved By

[Lord Strathclyde]

That the order be referred to a Grand Committee.

Motion agreed.