Oral Answers to Questions

Lord Lansley Excerpts

Tuesday 17th July 2012 Commons Chamber

[Stephen Mosley (City of Chester) (Con)]

1. What assessment he has made of the effect on patients of clinically led commissioning.

[The Secretary of State for Health (Mr Andrew Lansley)]

Clinical leadership in the design of services for patients will deliver better outcomes and improve patient experience of care. In the last year, for example, NHS Dorset clinical commissioning group has worked to improve outcomes in cardiology, dermatology and muscular-skeletal services, and NHS Nene CCG has admitted more than 3,000 patients on to a proactive care scheme, which I have had the privilege of seeing for myself, to identify and reduce the risks of people needing an emergency admission. That is one reason why the number of emergency admissions to hospital in the NHS fell by 1%.

[Stephen Mosley]

The Secretary of State will be aware of Chester’s location on the border with Wales and of the issues with cross-border health care commissioning. In order to ensure that there will be no financial shortfall for the West Cheshire CCG in relation to the treatment of patients who are registered with general practitioners in Wales but who receive treatment in England, will he confirm that the cross-border commissioning funding protocol between England and Wales will be fully implemented?

[Mr Lansley]

I would be grateful if my hon. Friend could convey my best wishes to the Countess of Chester hospital, which I visited just before Christmas, and my appreciation of the work of the West Cheshire CCG. I can confirm that discussions between officials in the Welsh Government, my Department and the NHS Commissioning Board are under way to extend and renew the protocol for cross-border commissioning for 2013-14 and beyond.

[Mr Andy Slaughter (Hammersmith) (Lab)]

If the Secretary of State believes that the reconfiguration of hospitals is clinically rather than finance led, will he ensure that NHS North West London publishes full risk assessments of its decision to close four accident and emergency departments and replace them with urgent care centres?

[Mr Lansley]

As the hon. Gentleman will—I hope—be fully aware, the view of Ministers is clear: any reconfiguration of services must be driven not by cost but by a need to improve clinical outcomes for patients; must be in line with the commissioning intentions of the local commissioning group; must be on the basis of strong patient and public engagement; and must protect the choice available to current and prospective patients. To that extent, I hope that all the necessary information to support those four tests is in the public domain.

[Joseph Johnson (Orpington) (Con)]

GP commissioners in Bromley have opened a consultation on the future of services currently provided at the Orpington hospital site. Will the Secretary of State ensure that the administrator recently appointed to South London Healthcare trust takes account of the consultation’s findings when drawing up his proposals for how best to put SLHT on a sustainable clinical and financial footing?

[Mr Lansley]

I hope that my hon. Friend is aware that when I appointed the trust special administrator and set a timetable for his work, I specifically added 30 days on an exceptional basis to the timetable for the production of his first report, one of the exceptional reasons being that an accelerated consultation should take place locally on the future of Orpington hospital.

[Andy Burnham (Leigh) (Lab)]

I shall give the Secretary of State one last chance on rationing.

[Andy Burnham]

The right hon. Gentleman needs to listen carefully to what I am about to say. Yesterday, he promised action to stop the restricting of cataract operations for financial reasons, if given evidence. How about this example? NHS Sussex has imposed severe restrictions that contradict the Department’s own guidance, “Action on Cataracts”, and this has seen the number of operations in Sussex fall from 5,646 in 2010 to 4,215 in 2011. Does the Secretary of State consider that fair to older people, and will he now take the action his Department has promised?

[Mr Lansley]

I have made it clear to the right hon. Gentleman many times, as has the Minister of State, my right hon. Friend the Member for Chelmsford (Mr Burns), that it is not acceptable and we will not allow NHS commissioners to impose blanket bans. I will gladly take note of and investigate that example, but I have to say that the right hon. Gentleman wrote to me with a document that purported to contain a series of examples from across the country, most of which turned out to be fictional. I shall respond in writing about NHS Sussex and put a copy in the Library of the House, but, as I have made clear, we, unlike our predecessors, will not accept any blanket ban on treatment. Any treatment must be clinically determined in the interests of patients.

[Andy Burnham]

Well, the right hon. Gentleman is accepting it, and he continues to dispute my evidence, but what does he say to the president of the Royal College of Ophthalmologists, who said yesterday of cataract restrictions:

“They are arbitrary and are a response to financial pressures, not clinical needs”?

The reason for the Government’s denial is that the financial pressures are greater than they care to admit. The figures released by the Treasury yesterday confirmed that he and the Government have now cut the NHS budget for two years running, but they also reveal something else: another real-terms cut planned for 2013-14. Do not their flagship promises on NHS spending now lie in shreds, and will this Prime Minister not be for ever remembered as the man who cut the NHS, not the deficit?

[Mr Lansley]

It is staggering, isn’t it? In 2010-11, the NHS budget was set by the right hon. Gentleman, not by us. The final accounts for 2011-12 will not be published until the autumn. I wish he would just get up at the Dispatch Box and admit that over the course of this Parliament the coalition Government will increase the NHS budget in England by 1.8% in real terms, which is £12.5 billion in cash, whereas the Wales Audit Office has said that a Labour Government in Wales will cut the NHS budget over the same period by 10% in real terms.

[Mrs Mary Glindon (North Tyneside) (Lab)]

2. What steps he is taking to bring forward legislative proposals on the funding of social care.

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[Chris Kelly (Dudley South) (Con)]

3. What assessment he has made of the performance of the NHS in 2011-12; and if he will make a statement.

[The Secretary of State for Health (Mr Andrew Lansley)]

At the beginning of this month, I laid my first annual report before the House setting out the achievements of the health service in 2011-12. The report showed that the NHS had continued to maintain or improve all the key performance standards while delivering unprecedented efficiency savings and a strong financial out-turn. That is a testament to the achievements of all NHS staff.

[Chris Kelly]

I thank my right hon. Friend for that answer. Will he confirm that the numbers of people waiting over 18 weeks, over 26 weeks and over 52 weeks for treatment are now at their lowest-ever levels—lower than when Labour was in office? Will he also confirm that that gives the lie to Labour’s claims that waiting lists are increasing?

[Mr Lansley]

Yes; I am grateful to my hon. Friend. When we came into office, something like 209,000 people had waited over 18 weeks. We have reduced that figure to 160,000. The number waiting over a year was nearly 19,000, and we have brought that down to below 5,000. I remind Opposition Members that in Wales the target for the number waiting more than 26 weeks has not been met—the figure stands at 6%, whereas in England it is 2.2%.

[Grahame M. Morris (Easington) (Lab)]

In regard to improving cancer outcomes, will the Secretary of State consider using some of the underspend in the cancer drugs fund to allow improved access to advanced radiotherapy?

[Mr Lansley]

I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for that question, because it allows me to confirm that the annual report states that the NHS has met all the cancer waiting time standards, and that we in England have provided for 12,500 patients to have access, through the cancer drugs fund, to cancer drugs that they would not otherwise have been able to have. It is a matter of regret that a similar cancer drugs fund is not available for exceptional treatments in Wales.

[John Pugh (Southport) (LD)]

What part or percentage of the £5.8 billion efficiency savings can be attributed to the salary freeze alone?

[Mr Lansley]

If I may, I will write to my hon. Friend in order to convey the precise figure. From my recollection, I believe that the bulk of the £5.8 billion efficiency savings—£2.8 billion—was in the acute sector. As most of the acute sector’s costs are pay costs, the pay freeze will have contributed a significant part of that.

[Ms Diane Abbott (Hackney North and Stoke Newington) (Lab)]

Will the Secretary of State accept that some of those so-called efficiency savings are totally counter-productive? Despite Ministers’ claims to be saving money on agency staff, is not the truth that hospitals’ attempts to improve their efficiency have backfired, with jobs being cut and agency staff being hired at rates as high as £1,600 a day?

[Mr Lansley]

No, I will not accept any such thing. We are aiming to reduce agency staffing costs in the NHS under QIPP—the quality, innovation, productivity and prevention programme—by £300 million, and we have already made a reduction of more than £120 million. Since the election, in complete contrast to the situation beforehand, we have reduced the number of administrative staff in the NHS by 15,000, including a reduction of more than 6,000 managers. We have also increased the number of clinical staff by 4,000 since the election.

[Andrew Selous (South West Bedfordshire) (Con)]

4. What steps he is taking to improve the quality of care provided in residential and nursing homes.

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[Mark Menzies (Fylde) (Con)]

7. What steps he is taking to reduce health inequalities.

[The Secretary of State for Health (Mr Andrew Lansley)]

The Health and Social Care Act 2012 established the first legal duties to reduce health inequalities for national health service commissioners and for the Secretary of State. Both the NHS and public health outcomes frameworks will have a strong focus on reducing inequalities in access to health services, and on inequalities in the health outcomes of the population as a whole.

[Mark Menzies]

My right hon. Friend will be aware of the inequalities in diagnoses of dementia around the country. What steps has he taken to reduce that variation in diagnosis rates?

[Mr Lansley]

As I think my hon. Friend will know from recently published data, some of the pilot work involving general practices demonstrated that it was possible to increase substantially the number of patients diagnosed with dementia. I believe that during the pilot period there was an increase of two thirds, more than 60%, in the number diagnosed. As part of the Prime Minister’s dementia challenge, we are using quality incentives in the NHS to identify and refer patients who are admitted to hospital with potential dementia in order to improve their diagnosis and treatment. We hope that that and other measures will identify more of those whose dementia is at an early stage, and will also assist their treatment.

[Derek Twigg (Halton) (Lab)]

One of the key elements in the tackling of inequality is funding. The funds allocated to the clinical commissioning groups was set out in the operating framework, which related to GPs’ patient lists. It has now been changed to take account of data from the Office for National Statistics. Will the Secretary of State assure me that deprived areas will not lose out on the funds allocated to CCGs—not the per-head funds, but the funds allocated to CCGs as a result of the change?

[Mr Lansley]

As I am sure the hon. Gentleman knows, we will publish the allocations for 2013-14 later this year. However, we are ensuring, I think rightly, that the allocations to clinical commissioning groups for NHS services reflect the population, because they have a responsibility for the whole population. Some parts of the country, particularly London, have substantial unregistered populations, which often include the groups who are most at risk.

[David Tredinnick (Bosworth) (Con)]

Does my right hon. Friend agree that one of his important initiatives that could reduce health inequalities is the development of personal care budgets, which give real power and choices to patients, and also have the potential to reduce hospital admissions and costs?

[Mr Lansley]

Yes, since the election we have pushed forward with offering access to a personal care budget to those who are in receipt of care and support. At the time of the last election, about 168,000 people were exercising that right. The figure now is over 432,000, and we are extending the scheme so that, for example, people in receipt of continuing health care through the NHS will not lose the opportunity for personal care when the NHS takes over that responsibility; instead, that will continue as a personal budget under the NHS.

[Mr Gareth Thomas (Harrow West) (Lab/Co-op)]

Does the Secretary of State think any of the steps he set out in his original answer will lead to a repeat of the shock rise in the number of cancelled operations in the local hospitals serving my constituents, the figures for which were recently set out in a written answer to me by his Minister of State, the right hon. Member for Chelmsford (Mr Burns)?

[Mr Lansley]

The number of cancelled operations rises at certain times during the winter, and it did so during last winter. We are clear about the necessity of ensuring that patients do not have cancelled operations if we can avoid that, and, in particular, that those whose operations are cancelled have access to treatment rapidly thereafter. The key is to make sure, as we have done, that patients have timely access to treatment under the referral to treatment times guidelines, and as the hon. Gentleman will be aware, the average waiting time for treatment in the NHS has fallen since the election, as has the number of people waiting a long time for treatment. That is the strongest measure for ensuring all patients get timely to access to care.

[Paul Goggins (Wythenshawe and Sale East) (Lab)]

8. How many patients attended the accident and emergency department at Wythenshawe hospital in the last 12 months for which figures are available.

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[David Mowat (Warrington South) (Con)]

11. What plans he has to review the health allocation formula.

[The Secretary of State for Health (Mr Andrew Lansley)]

The independent Advisory Committee on Resource Allocation is reviewing the allocation of resources for the NHS through clinical commissioning groups, and for local authorities in relation to their future public health responsibilities. ACRA’s interim recommendations on the preferred distribution of public health resources were published on 14 June. The NHS formula will be published in due course. The draft mandate for the NHS Commissioning Board makes it clear that it should provide resources to secure equal access for equal need.

[David Mowat]

I thank the Secretary of State for that answer. It is becoming increasingly clear that ageing is a key driver of health care costs, yet the ACRA formula currently does not properly take that into account, to the detriment of towns such as Warrington. Can he confirm that under the new formula, ageing will be more prominent?

[Mr Lansley]

Yes. As my hon. Friend will know, under the existing formula, age was the single biggest factor, but what is important is that the formula accurately reflects the factors that will give rise to need for health care, so that the allocation of resources can respond directly to that need. Ensuring separately that there is an allocation to local authorities for public health, which will be measured in relation to mortality below the age of 75 in particular, will enable those resources separately to be focused on, for example, areas of greatest deprivation which give rise to the poorest health outcomes.

[Jenny Chapman (Darlington) (Lab)]

I am interested to hear the Secretary of State say that he understands there is a link between deprivation and health inequality, in light of the new funding arrangements that seem to indicate that councils in the north-east will receive £17 per head less for public health, whereas councils in wealthier parts of the country will receive £8 per head more.

[Mr Lansley]

The hon. Lady knows perfectly well that I have said many times that deprivation can give rise to inequalities in health outcomes. In particular, we are improving substantially the framework for reducing those health inequalities, because we are giving local authorities specific, dedicated resources. Let me make it clear to her that under the public health allocation formula that I outlined just a few weeks ago, no part of the country will see any reduction in its public health resources from the baseline established.

[Julie Hilling (Bolton West) (Lab)]

12. What assessment he has made of the effect on residential care providers of reductions in local authorities’ budgets.

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[Laura Sandys (South Thanet) (Con)]

T1. If he will make a statement on his departmental responsibilities.

[The Secretary of State for Health (Mr Andrew Lansley)]

My responsibility is to lead the NHS in delivering improved health outcomes in England, to lead a public health service that improves the health of the nation and reduces health inequalities, and to lead the reform of adult social care, which supports and protects vulnerable people.

[Laura Sandys]

I thank the Secretary of State for that answer. Two of my local dentists have been closed as a result of an Office of Fair Trading investigation. Although that is totally understandable and nothing to do with the NHS, will the Secretary of State confirm to my constituents that they will have access to NHS-funded dentists? There happen to be more NHS-funded dentists in this country now than there were under the previous Government.

[Mr Lansley]

I think I can give my hon. Friend that reassurance. We are committed to increasing access to NHS dentistry, and over 1.1 million more patients have been seen by an NHS dentist since May 2010 than before the election. Nationally, there are more dentists. In 2010-11, there were 22,799 compared with 22,003 in the preceding year, before the election. NHS Kent and Medway has confirmed that it will have six dentists in place from 1 September 2012 who will temporarily provide the treatment that she is looking for, and it has started tendering processes to commission permanent NHS dental services in her area.

[Chris Ruane (Vale of Clwyd) (Lab)]

T2. The Minister will be aware of the 500% increase in the use of antidepressants over the past 20 years. I welcome the announcement of the hundreds of millions that will be spent on talking therapies over the next few years, but will the Minister tell us specifically what funding has been allocated for mindfulness, which is the best known treatment for repeat episode depression?

[Mark Lancaster (Milton Keynes North) (Con)]

T6. Yesterday’s figures showed a 17% increase in the population of Milton Keynes over the past 10 years, the highest outside London or Manchester, and an unexpected increase of some 4,000 over the estimate in the past 12 months. May I seek the Secretary of State’s reassurance that that will be reflected in future health care budgets for the city?

[Mr Lansley]

As my hon. Friend will, I hope, have understood from previous exchanges, the focus on the delivery of care to the resident population in an area covered by a clinical commissioning group will mean that we try, as far as possible, to align resources with the needs of a whole population rather than with just the practice-registered population.

[Jonathan Reynolds (Stalybridge and Hyde) (Lab/Co-op)]

T3. The Government often talk about reducing the number of managers in the health service to defend the front line, but following my recent meeting with my local representative from the Royal College of Nursing, can the Secretary of State confirm that under the Government’s definition a ward sister at band 7, who has a hugely important front-line role, is actually considered a manager?

[Mr Lansley]

If a member of staff is professionally qualified, they will be counted against the number of managers part of the overall work force census. It remains true, as we have said, that since the election we have reduced the number of managers in the NHS by more than 6,000 and increased the number of clinical staff by more than 4,000.

[Duncan Hames (Chippenham) (LD)]

T7. Last year’s National Audit Office report highlighted inconsistencies in the care of patients with neurological conditions such as Parkinson’s, which neurology networks could address. When will the Government publish their review, announced last September, of clinical networks in the national health service, and will it offer any hope for Parkinson’s patients?

[Kerry McCarthy (Bristol East) (Lab)]

T4. In yesterday’s debate, when talking about the south-west consortium, the Minister of State, the right hon. Member for Chelmsford (Mr Burns) emphasised the need for negotiations and agreement with staff. Does the Secretary of State not think it was shocking that staff found out only through a series of freedom of information requests that the consortium existed, and can he tell me when the Department of Health first found out about the consortium?

[Mr Lansley]

I will gladly write to the hon. Lady about when we were first aware of the consortium. I think it was several weeks ago; indeed, the document referred to prominently in the press on Sunday had been on websites for some weeks, so there is nothing new about that. We knew about it. I reiterate the point that I and my right hon. Friend made yesterday: even though under a Labour Government, in the 2006 legislation, powers were given to trusts to take their own decisions on the employment of staff, they must do so in negotiation with the staff side. We would expect that. From my point of view, the South West Pay Consortium is rightly looking to maximise flexibility, but I have made it clear to the pay review body that we believe that the flexibility it needs can be delivered through negotiations and “Agenda for Change”. It will not and should not require the reduction of pay for staff.

[Tom Brake (Carshalton and Wallington) (LD)]

T9. The clinician-led “Better Services Better Value” review has condemned the accident and emergency unit, and the maternity and children’s wards at St Helier hospital, because it expects out-of-hospital services to be expanded instead. Will the Secretary of State meet me to discuss local concerns that the £5 million allocated to provide the out-of-hospital services will be totally inadequate to the task?

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[Andrew Miller (Ellesmere Port and Neston) (Lab)]

What assessment has the Secretary of State made of the views of clinicians, and scientists from academia, industry and the third sector, on the impact of change on the development of stratified medicines?

[Mr Lansley]

I have the benefit of a review undertaken by Sir John Bell and his colleagues, which I accepted wholeheartedly. In particular, I immediately agreed with the recommendations, and we are implementing and funding recommendations for the establishment of centres across the NHS for genetic testing to support stratified medicine for cancer patients.

[Andrew George (St Ives) (LD)]

Further to the Secretary of State’s welcome response to the hon. Member for Bristol East (Kerry McCarthy), and his comments yesterday on the issue of the south-west consortium in relation to pay reductions, will he apply the same attitude to pay and conditions, particularly backward or downward regradings and other detrimental changes to terms and conditions?

[Mr Lansley]

As my hon. Friend knows, trusts and NHS employers are responsible for the terms and conditions of their staff, and for ensuring, as “Agenda for Change” intends to, that staff who effectively have the same knowledge and competences have the same pay banding, wherever they happen to be across the country. That is the objective of “Agenda for Change”. As I said yesterday, and will continue to say, “Agenda for Change” can be improved—we made that clear to the pay review body—but we think it is possible, if the staff side works with us, to enhance “Agenda for Change” and increase its flexibilities, so that NHS employers can recruit, retain and motivate their staff, with local flexibility, in a national pay framework.

[Nick Smith (Blaenau Gwent) (Lab)]

Given that every year, 1.2 million admissions to accident and emergency units are alcohol-fuelled, when will the Government help the NHS and legislate for a minimum alcohol unit price?

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[Mr Speaker]

I think the hon. Lady was referring to the right hon. Member for Kirkcaldy and Cowdenbeath (Mr Brown). For future reference, we do not refer to Members of the House by name.

[Mr Lansley]

My hon. Friend will, I am sure, know that an application for foundation trust status from the Royal Cornwall Hospitals NHS Trust is currently being considered by my Department. The trust is being assessed on whether it meets the quality, service, performance, business strategy, finance and governance standards required if a trust is to be an FT. Once the trust has demonstrated that it has met those standards in all other regards, the Department will ensure that any outstanding liquidity issues are resolved in time for the trust to be authorised as an FT. The process of assessing FT applications will ensure that any remaining debt carried by the trust when it becomes a foundation trust is affordable within the trust’s forward plans.

[Clive Efford (Eltham) (Lab)]

The chair of the South London Healthcare NHS Trust has written to the Secretary of State to correct inaccurate information given out by the Department of Health regarding the trust’s performance. [Interruption.] Instead of barracking me, would the Secretary of State—[Interruption.] Instead of shouting at me now, it is a shame that the Secretary of State did not meet the local MPs when he had the opportunity. Will he distance himself from the false information put out by unattributable sources in his Department, which will undermine the performance of the hospital and shows little respect for the health service workers who are working to improve services?

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[Zac Goldsmith (Richmond Park) (Con)]

Cases of blood poisoning from E. coli have increased by nearly 400% in the past 20 years, and E. coli resistance to antibiotics is almost certainly linked to record levels of antibiotic usage on factory farms. By over-using antibiotics we risk ruining for future generations one of the great discoveries of our species. Will the Department put pressure on the Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs finally to take that issue seriously?

[Mr Lansley]

I understand the issues. Indeed, I was interested to see analysis some years ago of the extent of antibiotic resistance in hospitals in the Netherlands. Resistance was clearly much more prevalent in parts of Friesland where there was much greater antibiotic usage in farming. I therefore completely understand, and my colleagues in DEFRA understand this too. Just as we are looking for the responsible and appropriate prescribing of antibiotics in the health service, my colleagues feel strongly about the proper use of antibiotics in farming.

[Mark Durkan (Foyle) (SDLP)]

When the national advisory council of the Thalidomide Trust recently met Government representatives, no funding undertakings were available on the replacement of the health support grant for sufferers. When can we expect a meaningful commitment in that regard, and is the Department liaising with its devolved counterparts?

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[John Woodcock (Barrow and Furness) (Lab/Co-op)]

Does the Secretary of State agree that commissioners in Cumbria must bear their share of responsibility for the deep-seated problems in the Morecambe Bay health trust, which have taken far too long to address. Will he join me in urging those commissioners to protect services such as Barrow’s maternity unit in their forthcoming review?

[Mr Lansley]

As we have seen in a number of instances over the years in the NHS, all those responsible should always be aware that, although the responsibility for quality may be, in the first instance, for the board of a trust, it is also the responsibility of those who commission the services. As the hon. Gentleman will be aware, one of the key considerations for the future in the development of services is for the NHS to respond to the commissioning intentions of local commissioners. Clearly, the matter that he raised will be determined locally as regards what commissioners require in terms of services from Morecambe Bay trust.

[Several hon. Members]

rose—