Kosovo

Lord Anderson of Swansea Excerpts

Tuesday 29th January 2013 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Warsi]

The noble Earl raises an important issue, and I can assure him that we are steadfastly supportive of EU enlargement. We think that it is crucial, as he said, to bringing security and prosperity to the western Balkans and to wider Europe. The Prime Minister’s speech, which talked about a more diverse, competitive and flexible Europe, relies on an ever-enlarging Europe.

[Lord Anderson of Swansea]

My Lords, I hope that the Minister will agree that those countries, particularly the EU countries, which have so far failed to recognise Kosovo, have done so for good—or at least for domestic —reasons, be it Catalonia, the Basque country, or Northern Cyprus. It is most unlikely that there will be any fundamental change by those countries unless and until Serbia and Kosovo itself reach an agreement. Therefore, the talks led by the noble Baroness, Lady Ashton, and brokered by the EU, stand the very best chance of resolving this problem of recognition.

European Union (Croatian Accession and Irish Protocol) Bill

Lord Anderson of Swansea Excerpts

Wednesday 16th January 2013 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Warsi]

The conclusions set out the EU’s expectations that disputes within the western Balkans should not have a detrimental effect on the shared goal of progress towards EU membership. The Government support that statement in full.

Croatia, with its recent experience of accession negotiations, can itself play a constructive role in supporting its neighbours on their EU paths. I am pleased to say that Croatia is already doing this, as the noble Lord, Lord Anderson, highlighted in his remarks in Committee. In addition to the UK’s support for candidate countries, the UK provides expert support through EU peer-to-peer twinning projects. For example, since 2010, the UK has been awarded six twinning contracts in Kosovo, and we have recently been awarded a new project in Montenegro. We have already hosted a delegation of Croatian twinners to explore how we can work together on new twinning projects as partners in the region.

Finally, it is important that the EU’s enlargement process works. Croatia’s successful accession is an important concrete means of maintaining the incentive of EU membership in other western Balkan countries. Croatia’s efforts will highlight that the EU rewards the hard work that underpins countries’ transformations.

[Lord Anderson of Swansea]

My Lords, I thank the Minister for her helpful replies to the questions that I have raised, and join with her in saying that it is clearly in our interests that the whole of the western Balkans be brought successfully into the European family. The accession of Croatia on 1 July will certainly be a signal step in that direction, and we join with her in giving Croatia, and indeed the rest of the western Balkans, every blessing on that journey.

Report received.

Syria

Lord Anderson of Swansea Excerpts

Thursday 10th January 2013 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Warsi]

The noble Lord raises a number of important issues. I understand his concerns in relation to what could be perceived by our recognition of the Syrian national coalition as the legitimate voice of the Syrian people, or the consequences that could flow from that. However, when a regime has inflicted such brutality upon its own people, it is right that we engage with a coalition of those in opposition. I can assure him that al-Nusra is not part of that coalition, and that it is therefore not in receipt of any funding that is being given to the recognised opposition coalition.

With regard to the balance of reporting that is coming out of Syria, it is right that we fund human rights defenders and journalists to take records and keep material for potential future prosecutions. The noble Lord will be aware, as will other noble Lords, that we must not allow a culture of impunity to exist at the end of such crises, and that there must, therefore, be accountability for the actions that took place during that crisis. The noble Lord will also be aware that for access and security reasons, it is very difficult for independent observers to be on the ground in Syria. It is therefore right and appropriate that we fund and support those who are there on the ground to take records.

[Lord Anderson of Swansea]

My Lords, the Minister painted a very bleak picture of this appalling civil war, in which there will be no winners and only losers—those being the people of Syria themselves. She described the frustration at the United Nations Security Council, and an underfunded aid effort. Will she answer three questions?

First, the Minister spoke of working with the Syrian opposition and the countries of the region. Presumably those countries include Iran and Russia. Certainly, President Assad’s speech was very intransigent, but is there any evidence of any softening of the position of Russia, and to what extent do we believe that Iran should be brought into the discussions?

Secondly, we know of the Russian naval presence in that area. How do we interpret that—simple sabre-rattling, or worse? Thirdly, quite properly, the Minister spoke of seeking to ensure that the perpetrators of these appalling crimes are brought to justice. What efforts are we making to ensure that those who are guilty of such violations of human rights are aware that we are monitoring their actions and indeed that we intend that ultimately they will face justice? What are the means of communication to such people directly?

[Baroness Warsi]

With regard to working with the opposition and other important allies in the region, we have of course been working closely with Turkey, which unfortunately has had to bear the brunt of taking on the majority of refugees who have come out of Syria. Other partners in the region are playing a constructive role.

With regard to Russia, I think that I made clear when I repeated the Statement that we are using all opportunities to impress upon the Russians, using discussions with our opposite numbers and counterparts in all fora, that there has to be some progress in this matter. Is there a softening of their position? Are we facing a brick wall? At this stage I could describe what we are seeing as a potential crack in the brick wall, but we must continue to ensure that we keep pushing.

With regards to perpetrators of crimes, there is always the possibility—provided that the United Nations Security Council can pass a resolution, which of course would have to be supported by China and Russia—that those crimes could be referred to the International Criminal Court. There is also the alternative option that, at the end of this crisis, these matters could be tried within Syria by a democratically elected Government.

European Union (Croatian Access and Irish Protocol) Bill

Lord Anderson of Swansea Excerpts

Thursday 10th January 2013 Grand Committee

[The Earl of Dundee]

I am grateful to the noble Countess for reminding me of that. I am fully aware that the Minister is not required to answer my questions today. I had a word with her before these proceedings and suggested that she might come back to me later on. She has already kindly agreed to do so.

[Lord Anderson of Swansea]

I am delighted to follow the noble Earl, who I am tempted to call “my noble friend”. We had a discussion as to whether we should sit on the same side of the Committee. Indeed, we form a troika with the noble Lord, Lord Grenfell, in this respect. Again, I do not expect any answer to the questions I raise at this point. Perhaps the Minister will consider them and will be able to give some answer at the next stage of proceedings.

Croatia is, as the noble Earl said, the last entry into the EU, as it will be on 1 July, under the old rules. As we know, the new rules will be far tighter—particularly, as the noble Earl has said, in respect of the rule of law. There have been bilateral problems in respect of Croatia from Slovenia, in that Slovenia first drove a hard bargain in respect of Piran and, latterly, in respect of the bank. I understand that Croatia has given a firm, if not bankable, pledge that it will not use the fact of its entry as a means of creating problems for other countries in the western Balkans.

EU: United States Free Trade Agreement

Lord Anderson of Swansea Excerpts

Wednesday 19th December 2012 Lords Chamber

Asked By

[Lord Anderson of Swansea]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what steps they, and the European Union, will take to make progress on proposals for a European Union-United States free trade agreement.

[The Minister of State, Department for Business, Innovation and Skills & Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Lord Green of Hurstpierpoint)]

My Lords, the European Union-United States high-level working group on jobs and growth, which is tasked with examining the options for enhancing the transatlantic economic relationship, is expected to release its report in the coming weeks. The UK Government look forward to receiving the conclusions of this report and to working with other EU member states and the European Commission to take forward this important agenda and achieve—if at all possible—an EU-US free trade agreement.

[Lord Anderson of Swansea]

My Lords, following the failure of the Doha round of global trade negotiations, does the Minister agree that the focus will increasingly be on regional arrangements and where better than the EU-US following the EU summit with the US last year, which accounts for half of the total GNP of the world and one third of world trade? Will he give an assurance that the conclusions of this working group will be speedily worked upon? What steps does he see following that?

[Lord Green of Hurstpierpoint]

I agree with the noble Lord that this is an extremely important negotiation. It is indeed the case that in the wake of the stalling of the Doha round, regional arrangements of this kind is the inevitable way forward in practice for free trade. The EU has a heavy agenda; a couple of weeks ago, it agreed a mandate for negotiating with Japan—obviously another major economy. The EU-US deal will be the most important one for the reasons that the noble Lord has indicated—the importance of the two blocks in world trade—and I assure him that the British Government will pursue every avenue that we can to encourage, support and cajole others into working to get this deal done.

European Union: Recent Developments

Lord Anderson of Swansea Excerpts

Monday 17th December 2012 Lords Chamber

[Lord Anderson of Swansea]

The noble Lord gave most impressive figures for the percentage rise in our exports to China but failed to note that we export more to one Land in Germany than to the whole of China, which puts his position in some perspective. It was refreshing to hear a noble Lord who dared to speak his aim—he wants out. He lives in a world not of greys, like most of us, but of black and white.

There are of course other noble Lords who flirt with unobtainable goals as alternatives to the European Union. For example, there is the Commonwealth, as if it could develop into a trading bloc; manifestly it could not. There is the Swiss example, but everyone now accepts that the Swiss arrangement with the European Union was a one-off, not to be repeated. Norway is mentioned as a potential example but its relationship is integration without representation—having to accept, as it invariably does, deals that are negotiated without it being part of that very negotiation. As for repatriation of powers, that is manifestly not on offer, as President Hollande made crystal clear last week.

It is perhaps unusual in a debate of this nature to have lumped together a general debate and two Bills. There is at least one disadvantage of this, in that it prevents a focused debate on an important and distinct issue such as Croatian accession. However, perhaps the link between the general debate and Croatia is that the nexus lies in the very contrast that as Croatia and, indeed, the rest of the western Balkans move towards accession, the UK Government sleepwalk in the opposite direction. Le Monde on 13 July posed the question, “Will Europe soon be without GB?”. The Financial Times, on 19 October, published an article headlined:

“Brexit: Europe loses patience with British exceptionalism”.

The Economist of 8 December had a leader entitled, “Goodbye Europe”. I concede of course that there is a rising tide of nationalist anti-Europe sentiment, particularly in the Conservative Party. Perhaps it is looking over its shoulders at the rise of UKIP. The Prime Minister himself is more sensible. He travels lightly on Europe, as indeed on most other issues, but he cannot ignore party divisions. Even the Sunday Times yesterday, one of the anti-Europe newspapers, had a headline:

“Brussels to spend £16m on PR as junk-status Croatia joins EU”.

We have been members of the club now for 40 years and, as the noble Lord, Lord Jopling, said extremely wisely from his experience, if you are members of a club you do not insult it if you wish to obtain concessions and work within the sentiment of that club. Rather than making the most of our membership and criticising from the inside where justified, as often it is, we alienate friends and allies by giving the impression of wanting to be on the sidelines and to be given a special status. Such a negative attitude surely cannot be in our national interest.

The Government, to the acclaim of the anti-European press, trumpeted their decision to opt out of the pre-Lisbon police and judicial co-operation measures—the so-called Protocol 36—without mentioning the benefits we receive, for example, from the European arrest warrant and assuming that we can opt in later if we want. However, the precedent is otherwise: in three cases, the UK tried to opt back into the Schengen opt-out but in all three cases we were refused permission on our pick-and-choose policy. As another example, over the past three years, able British graduates have clearly been deterred from putting their names forward for the administrative grade in the grand cours of the Commission. I readily concede there are other factors but we provide 12.42% of the EU population but only 2.03% of the valid applications for the administrative grade, because of the climate that has been created and because, in part, able graduates in the UK must ask whether they will have a long-term career within the EU.

Of course, I accept that we should press strongly for change from the inside. A good example of this is the other Bill before us, the European Union (Approvals) Bill. Surely the European Agency for Fundamental Rights is largely a duplication of the human rights work of the Council of Europe. I only wish that, at the time when the agency was conceived and came into being in 2007, a British Government had robustly said, “Look, there is no need for this agency, it is part of Commission empire-building, it is going to cost a lot of money”. Indeed, the money spent on the agency is 20% of the whole of the money spent on the Council of Europe, which is the major human rights agency in this field. Like it or not, it is there, but it duplicates the work. If one looks, for example, at the themes mentioned in the European Union (Approvals) Bill—such as the Roma, racism and xenophobia—these are all key themes of the Council of Europe. We just refused, or were not strong enough, to point out that the emperor had no clothes in 2007.

The proposed accession of Croatia on 1 July next year tells one something about Croatia itself but also tells one something about the enlargement process. I personally have no doubt about the European credentials of Croatia. I remember spending one morning in Zagreb Cathedral observing how each of the stages of European cathedral-building were paralleled in the cathedral in Zagreb. The café society in Zagreb could be transplanted easily to any of the major cities of Europe. Of course there are concerns over practical issues, such as the International Criminal Court, although Croatia has now satisfied that. It has progressed well on judicial delays, as it should. On border controls, there will be a new report in March but much is being done to overcome problems. So far as migration is concerned, we have the transitional arrangements. There is no doubt about the concessions that Croatia has made, particularly in sensitive areas such as shipbuilding.

As the Minister said in opening, we have learnt many of the lessons from recent accessions such as the problem of countries having border disputes with neighbours. Slovenia drove a hard bargain over Croatia’s accession regarding Piran. On the question of backsliding, the Minister set out the new procedures, safeguard clauses and one or two other such arrangements. The big picture, of course, is that we, as Europeans, need a stable western Balkans. It is in all our interests. All those countries are relatively small. They are manageable and should be managed. I recall being in the office of George Papandreou when he was Greek Foreign Minister, pointing on a large map on the wall at the western Balkans and saying, “These are the last pieces of the jigsaw”—manageable and should be managed. So let us look forward to a time when Serbia, geographically and historically necessary for stability, and the other countries of the western Balkans play their full part in our new Europe when they are firmly anchored in the European Union.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Stoddart of Swindon]

My Lords, this was supposed to be one debate, but of course it is three debates in one; three important debates, which should have been held separately. I will deal with each one of them seriatim.

First, I will say a few words about the accession of Croatia. I have nothing against Croatia at all. I am sure that, as has been described by a number of noble Lords, it is an excellent country. However, I do not want any further expansion of the European Union, and therefore Croatia is not welcome in the European Union. I say that because it is not clear where we are going.

Let us look at the list of countries, which I do not believe is exhaustive. How many more are to come in? In the line to come in—at some time or other—are Turkey, Ukraine, Serbia, Albania, Kosovo, Montenegro and Bosnia. Some of them have very high populations. The French, of course, are never satisfied. They want north African countries to come in as well.

[Lord Anderson of Swansea]

No.

[Lord Stoddart of Swindon]

The noble Lord shakes his head, but the former President of France specifically said that he would like to see north African countries in the European Union. France, therefore, would like these countries to join the European Union.

If you have all these countries in the Union, what does it mean? If you take Turkey and Ukraine together, by the time they come in, that is about 140 million extra people. By the time we have finished with all of them there will be 700 million people. If experience is anything to go by, the larger the EU becomes, the more centralised and authoritarian it becomes. For those reasons, I am opposed to any further expansion.

Every entrant into the EU reduces the existing countries’ influence, including of course our own. We must also remember that the rules of the European Union mean that sometime or other after these countries join the European Union they have the right of entry into this country to work and settle. So there are difficult problems about building ever more countries into the European Union. I used to talk about a country called Europe. Now we seem to be talking about an empire called Europe. In the end, it will not do Europe any good.

The second point is about the Commission membership. I can hardly oppose what is proposed. When we were debating the Lisbon treaty, some of us, including the noble Lords, Lord Pearson and Lord Willoughby de Broke, said that it was right that every country should have its own Commissioner. But we were told that as Europe got larger, they could not have each have a Commissioner because it would be too difficult to run the whole thing with so many Commissioners. I can hardly be against that. I welcome the fact that the Irish are to have their own Commissioner and other countries as well.

Then we come to developments in the EU, which is the third part of this debate. Of course, there have been so many developments in the European Union since we last had a debate that it is difficult to sort them out. I have done my best. I start with the eurozone. It is still in acute financial trouble, as we have already heard. There are problems in most of the countries of the eurozone. We have heard that unemployment in Spain and Greece is more than 25%. There has been rioting in the streets. Teargas has been hurled at demonstrators and some of them have been injured by police violence. There is hatred among some of the countries, particularly between Greece and Germany. That is not supposed to happen in the European Union. We are all supposed to be jolly friends together. But what has happened in the eurozone is pushing the European Union apart. According to Eurostat on 3 December, 24.5% of EU citizens are at risk of poverty or social exclusion and that figure is increasing. What do those people who are in favour of expanding this organisation and keeping it going make of that?

When we went into the Common Market, we were promised that this was a great leap forward and that this was the organisation to be in. Britain would thrive and prosper inside it and so would every other country. Instead of that, the reverse is happening. Those of those who warned against ditching the pound and not adopting the euro were insulted by those, like Mr Blair, who led the campaign to ditch the pound. Mr Blair now thinks that people like myself are a virus because we happen to take a different point of view from him about the future of this country. He is the man who said before the 1997 election that he was a British patriot and then went on to sign the Lisbon treaty, got rid of many of our freedoms, and sacrificed part of our rebate. I had to say that because I resent having been insulted in that way by that particular person.

Then we have Frau Merkel telling us that outside Europe Union the United Kingdom will be alone. How insensitive can you get? I am of an age when I can remember being alone in 1940 and Frau Merkel seems to have forgotten about that. She also seems to have forgotten that there is a Commonwealth and Britain is part of that Commonwealth and one of its leaders. She was backed in all of that by Herr Schäuble, the German finance minister, who also believes that Britain could not exist outside the European Union.

Nearer to home, our own Prime Minister says he wishes to remain in the EU and once again he cites Norway to make his point. The United Kingdom has a population of 62 million. Norway has a population of 5 million. There is no comparison at all. Let us have a look at Norway. I mentioned some of Norway’s benefits in a previous debate. Let us look at Norway in other ways. It has the second highest GDP per capita in the world—in the world, not in the EU. It is the second wealthiest country in the world in monetary value and has the largest capital reserve per capita in the world.

[Lord Stoddart of Swindon]

I understand all that. When I was a member of the Energy Select Committee in the House of Commons, we recommended that the then Government should do exactly the same as Norway. It is a pity they did not, because we would be very much better off now. That is the answer to the noble Lord. I understand all of these things. I have been around a long time.

The fact of the matter is that the Prime Minister says that Norway trades with the single market but has no say in the making of the rules and regulations.

[Lord Anderson of Swansea]

He is absolutely right.

[Lord Stoddart of Swindon]

I am not at all sure that that is right. I had an Answer to a Question on 14 December, which is not long ago. The Question I asked was:

“To ask Her Majesty's Government, further to the Written Statement by Lord Green of Hurstpierpoint on 6 December (WS 76-7) on the European Union Foreign Affairs Council, whether the outcome of the negotiations with Japan, Canada, Singapore and Morocco will require those countries to adopt all the legislation and regulations that apply to countries in the single market”.

This is the Answer:

“It is not the case that as a result of these trade negotiations the countries concerned will have to adopt all the legislation and regulations that apply to EU member states.

The aim of these negotiations is to eliminate, as far as possible, duties applied to trade in goods and to address non-tariff barriers that affect trade in goods in services—ie rules, regulations and practices that affect market access”.—[Official Report, 14/12/12; col. WA 263]

[Lord Anderson of Swansea]

What about Norway?

[Lord Stoddart of Swindon]

The noble Lord asks about Norway. I am talking about that country. If Norway accepts the regulations that it is up it. The point I am making—

[Lord Anderson of Swansea]

It has to.

[Lord Stoddart of Swindon]

No, that is exactly the point I am making. The Answer says that countries that trade with the single market do not have to accept all its regulations. It is here in black and white.

[Lord Anderson of Swansea]

With respect, that is not what the Answer says. Certain countries reached a certain deal with the European Union. By contrast, Norway has a very different arrangement and if the noble Lord were to look at the recent report by the professor who gave an audit of the Norwegian relationship with the European Union, he would see that the conclusion is very firmly that it is integration into the European Union without any form of representation.

[Lord Wallace of Saltaire]

My Lords, this speech is just approaching 15 minutes, which is considerably longer even than the opening speech. It is rather late and I would ask the noble Lord to be brief.

UK-Israel Life Sciences Council

Lord Anderson of Swansea Excerpts

Thursday 6th December 2012 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Warsi]

My Lords, regenerative medicine, such as stem cell treatments, has the potential to play an increasingly vital role in delivering the next generation of healthcare, offering treatments or possible cures for areas of unmet medical need. Where there are areas of expertise, both in this country and in Israel—or in any other country around the world—it is important for that collaborative work to continue. When we are collaborating with countries that we consider to be friends and there are disagreements, we still have those discussions, for it is important that this work continues.

[Lord Anderson of Swansea]

My Lords, does not the pre-eminence of Israel in this and so many other fields, and also the academic freedom enjoyed by universities in Israel, make nonsense of any attempts by our academics to boycott their counterparts in Israel? Will the Minister, as the noble Baroness suggested, roundly condemn any such attempts at a boycott?

[Baroness Warsi]

My Lords, the UK Government have made their position on boycotts clear. We do not hesitate to express disagreement with Israel whenever we feel it is necessary, but we also enjoy a close and productive relationship with Israel. It is this very relationship that allows us to have the frank discussions that are often necessary between friends. We believe that imposing boycotts would lessen that influence, not increase it.

Syria: Chemical Weapons

Lord Anderson of Swansea Excerpts

Tuesday 4th December 2012 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Warsi]

My Lords, we have always indicated that we must do all that we can to bring the fighting and bloodshed to an end. The noble Lord will be aware from my previous Answers that we have worked closely with the opposition, who have now formed a formal opposition, the National Coalition of Syrian Revolutionary and Opposition Forces, whom we have now formally recognised. We continue to support the opposition in trying to bring this bloodshed to an end.

[Lord Anderson of Swansea]

My Lords, Russia is the main supplier of weapons to Syria and the main protector of Syria in international fora. What evidence is there, if any, that Russia takes this matter seriously? Do the Government accept that evidence, and is there any evidence that Russia is seeking to restrain the Assad regime from the use of chemical weapons?

[Baroness Warsi]

We know that Russia shares our concerns about the use of chemical and biological weapons. We use all opportunities that we have in discussions with our Russian counterparts and, indeed, this matter was again raised in discussions that I had with the Russian ambassador only a few weeks ago. As for our concerns about where Russia has failed to act, specifically at the United Nations Security Council, the views of my right honourable friend the Prime Minister were very clear when he spoke at the United Nations.

Iran

Lord Anderson of Swansea Excerpts

Monday 3rd December 2012 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Warsi]

Discussions about these matters are ongoing in a number of different ways. The noble Lord will be aware that the E3+3—Russia, China, the US and ourselves, France and Germany—have had four meetings since the beginning of this year; I think since February. Indeed, the noble Baroness, Lady Ashton, is in the process of taking forward a further meeting, possibly before Christmas. We are absolutely committed to negotiating our way out of this matter.

[Lord Anderson of Swansea]

Does the noble Baroness agree that, while the centuries-old legal principles in respect of pre-emptive strikes remain valid, they have been transformed in practice by the speed of warning and response in the nuclear age? Although we, along with much of the security establishment in Israel, may be highly critical of a possible strike, should we not at least acknowledge the dilemma of the Israeli Government, who are faced with President Ahmadinejad, who has said he intends to destroy Israel and may very well soon have the capability to do just that?

[Baroness Warsi]

Iran’s development of military nuclear power is a matter of concern for many more countries than just Israel. It is why we have United Nations Security Council resolutions in relation to this matter and it is why we have tried to negotiate with Iran over a number of years. It is important to continue those negotiations and discussions. These are concerns that we in this country have too.

International Law: Use of Drones

Lord Anderson of Swansea Excerpts

Tuesday 20th November 2012 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Warsi]

In all our discussions when these matters are raised, we expect all states concerned to act in accordance with international law and to take all feasible precautions to avoid civilian casualties. We understand that the UN special rapporteur for human rights and countering terrorism intends to give consideration to these issues of drone strikes in a future report to the UN General Assembly.

[Lord Anderson of Swansea]

The use of drones may be effective or ineffective, productive or counterproductive, but is there any difference in principle between the use of drones and the use in armed conflict of rockets or artillery across national frontiers?

[Baroness Warsi]

My Lords, I can comment only upon the actions of the United Kingdom and I assure the noble Lord that the Government are mindful of all their obligations under international law when they engage in military activity.