Special Envoy for Freedom of Religion or Belief Bill

Karen Bradley Excerpts

3rd reading
Friday 17th May 2024 Commons Chamber

[Dame Karen Bradley (Staffordshire Moorlands) (Con)]

I rise to speak briefly in support of the Bill introduced by my hon. Friend the Member for Congleton (Fiona Bruce). Putting the special envoy for freedom of religion or belief on a statutory footing is an extremely good measure that we should all support.

I want to very briefly talk about the way I have seen my hon. Friend the Member for Congleton carry out her role in my capacity as chair of the British Group of the Inter-Parliamentary Union. My hon. Friend regularly attends events that we hold here, where we host parliamentarians from around the world. She has the ability to connect with those parliamentarians to offer them the support they need. Very often, those politicians might be subject to persecution in their own country because of their religion, despite being elected politicians. My hon. Friend really does provide great support and offers them hope that the work they are doing can have a positive outcome.

My hon. Friend was also able to demonstrate the UK’s lead in this area at the first Inter-Parliamentary Union parliamentary conference on interfaith dialogue, which was held last year; it is so far the only such conference, but I hope there will be more. My hon. Friend was one of the star speakers at that event. She was able to come in and talk about the work we do here in the UK. This was an event that brought together faith leaders and politicians from around the world. There were some authoritarian regimes represented, to try to open up that dialogue and show that freedom of religion and belief is a very valuable matter, and that we as politicians need to communicate more with faith leaders than we probably do.

When I was Minister for modern slavery, it was the faith groups that were able to offer the most support to victims of modern slavery. Mr Deputy Speaker, you are one of the most amiable and approachable chaps I know, but I suspect that many of your constituents find it easier to speak to their local priest, rabbi or other religious leader than to you, because of the trust that people have in the religious and faith leaders they interact with. Therefore, it is incredibly important for you to have a dialogue with your faith leaders, as it is for all of us here, because it is how we find out about what is going on for our constituents and how we can get support to them. We cannot overstate the importance of faith and its interaction with politics, and how we must all be part of it.

[Fiona Bruce]

I thank my right hon. Friend for highlighting the importance of interfaith dialogue. I must not miss the opportunity to promote one of the projects being undertaken by the international alliance of 43 countries. We have a working group on interfaith dialogue, which was launched this year, and we are calling for contributions of good examples of such dialogue from around the world. I encourage anyone in this place, and anyone listening to the debate or reading about it afterwards, to contact our alliance—they can do so through me —in order to contribute.

[Dame Karen Bradley]

I am so grateful to my hon. Friend for raising that. I know that we will all take note of it and look to promote it to our constituents.

I will conclude by saying the UK already has a leading role in this area, but putting the envoy on a statutory footing will reinforce that role, ensure continuity and emphasise the intent of Parliament to ensure that freedom of religion and belief is always observed.

[Dr Thérèse Coffey (Suffolk Coastal) (Con)]

I rise to support this important Bill. I will be the first to say that Parliament often rushes too quickly to create offices and commissioners for this, that and the other, when a lot of this work should be done by Ministers, who should be held to account by Parliament for their activities. But I am also very conscious that something that may seem quite narrow in its scope may be lower down in the day-to-day life of a Minister.

The challenge that people of faith face around the world is so acute that creating this special role permanently, as Parliament wishes, is a really important step in ensuring that one of people’s most fundamental freedoms—freedom of religion or belief—is protected. It is something that the United Kingdom cherishes so much that the Prime Minister will have somebody performing that role in their name, working with them and the Foreign Office to ensure, through interventions and by convening things like the international alliance, that it is not just an afterthought. It is something that Parliament has decided really matters to the outcomes that the post seeks to achieve.

I had the good fortune this week to visit the Vatican with three other Members of Parliament on the all-party parliamentary group on the Holy See. We met a variety of groups as well as being part of the general audience and meeting His Holiness Pope Francis. I was struck by the conversations that we had with sisters who are part of the International Union of Superiors General. Those nuns undertake really valuable, often dangerous work right around the world, not only in the traditional forms of education or helping with care, in hospitals or palliative care settings, but increasingly in trying to tackle things such as modern slavery.

[Dame Karen Bradley]

I declare an interest as a trustee of the organisation Arise, which does exactly that: we train sisters around the world to identify potential victims of forced labour and exploitation. We give them training on how to make sure that workers—for example, on tea plantations in India—are properly regularised, know their rights and have the right documentation. It is the sisters who do that work, and they are utterly wonderful. My right hon. Friend gives me a great opportunity to pay tribute to them, and I thank her for that.

[Dr Coffey]

I thank my right hon. Friend for that intervention. I know how much this issue mattered to her when she was in the Home Office. Traditionally, the sisters will stay in places of conflict and real difficulty despite the threats that they receive. In the past, a religious such as a nun or a priest would have been given some sort of protection, but unfortunately that is no longer the case, and in fact such people are starting to become targets.

I am led to believe that 12% of the world’s nuns are in India. India is an amazing country, but many of us will have been horrified by the regular and active persecution of Christians in parts of that country. Of course the UK Government need their important relationships with our Commonwealth friend, which recently hosted a very successful G20 summit and is a very important part of the global economy, but they also need to challenge aspects of the way in which it deals with freedom of religion and belief. I believe that our Ministers do that successfully, but it is of additional benefit to have a special envoy of the Prime Minister’s who works with many countries, through the international alliance, on raising these issues. My hon. Friend the Member for Congleton (Fiona Bruce) mentioned a case that she had tackled in Nigeria.

Ceasefire in Gaza

Karen Bradley Excerpts

Wednesday 21st February 2024 Commons Chamber

[Madam Deputy Speaker]

Let me first take the point of order from the Chair of the Procedure Committee.

[Dame Karen Bradley (Staffordshire Moorlands) (Con)]

Further to that point of order, Madam Deputy Speaker. I seek your guidance. My understanding from the advice I have seen is that Standing Order 31, whereby the motion is put first, did not apply because there were two amendments. If there is now only one amendment, surely we should revert to Standing Order 31.

[Madam Deputy Speaker]

I thank the Chair of the Procedure Committee for her point of order, but if the Government amendment is not moved, we revert to the amendment from the Labour party and that amendment has been moved. If it is passed, the SNP motion is amended and then the Question is put on the SNP amendment.

--- Later in debate ---

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Rosie Winterton)]

I am going to take a point of order from the Chair of the Procedure Committee. I gently suggest that right hon. and hon. Members restrain themselves. I think the Chair of the Procedure Committee may have something to share with us about what she is looking at, at Mr Speaker’s request, I believe.

[Dame Karen Bradley (Staffordshire Moorlands) (Con)]

Further to that point of order, Madam Deputy Speaker. The hon. Member for Rhondda (Sir Chris Bryant) is correct that in the precedent there was a Conservative amendment to a Liberal Democrat Opposition day motion, but there was no Government amendment, and that is the difference. As there is no longer a Government amendment, I am confused about why we are not returning to the order of precedence set down in Standing Order No. 31.

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Rosie Winterton)]

Because of Standing Order No. 31, I am bound to take the Labour party amendment first and then move on to the SNP motion. That is all the advice that I have received, and I am sure when the hon. Lady—

Beneficial Ownership Registers: Overseas Territories and Crown Dependencies

Karen Bradley Excerpts

Thursday 7th December 2023 Commons Chamber

[Dame Margaret Hodge]

I have enormous respect and time for the hon. Member, but I have an opinion from a renowned KC that we sought at that time—I will come to it later—which contradicts entirely his point and says that we do have the constitutional right to legislate.

[Karen Bradley (Staffordshire Moorlands) (Con)]

I want to comment not on the substance of what the right hon. Lady is talking about but merely on the procedural aspects. She will know that the Procedure Committee is looking at the impact of legislation in this place on devolved legislatures, the overseas territories and the Crown dependencies, and I am interested in her comments and look forward to her speech, but does she agree that we should try to find a way for the voice of the overseas territories to be heard when we legislate in this place if there are implications for them?

Universal Declaration of Human Rights and UN Convention on Genocide

Karen Bradley Excerpts

Thursday 7th December 2023 Westminster Hall

[The Minister of State, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Mr Andrew Mitchell)]

I think this is the first time that I have served under your chairmanship, Mr Paisley; it is a great pleasure, and I very much hope it will not be the last. I am extremely grateful to the hon. Members for Rochdale (Tony Lloyd) and for Strangford (Jim Shannon) for securing this debate, and very grateful indeed to the hon. Member for Rochdale for his kind words about my hon. Friend the Member for Henley (John Howell). It has been an extraordinarily good debate, and one that reflects extremely well on the House. I say that because I think the issues that have been raised have been governed by a steady theme, and that there has been a degree of unity on both sides of Westminster Hall. I hope that my speech will reflect that. May I say at the outset that I hope I will pick up virtually all the points made, but if I miss out any point, my diligent officials will make sure that we write to hon. Members to address it.

It is my great pleasure to respond on behalf of the Government. I am grateful for the contributions of all hon. Members and I will, as I said, try to respond to all the points raised. I am grateful to the hon. Member for Rochdale both for his words and for his tone. I can confirm that he is remembered with great affection in the Foreign Office from his time serving there. I also thank him for his comments on the White Paper and his emphasis on the importance of working upstream, which the White Paper sets out very clearly. I thank the hon. Member for West Ham (Ms Brown) for her words about the White Paper. Having been at the COP last weekend, I confirm that the document is resonating with our friends and colleagues around the world, not least because 50 countries had input into it. It has been welcomed by all parties in the House of Commons, and I think it charts the way ahead in a number of very important ways.

To pick up a point that the hon. Member for Rochdale made, I confirm that we ratified the Istanbul convention back in 2022. Although some reservations remain, we are committed to implementing our obligations under the convention. May I thank him for his personal remarks when he said that he found me to be among the more endearing members of the end of the Conservative party? I am extremely relieved that he thinks we have got an endearing end, and thank him very much for his remarks.

I thank the hon. Members for Putney (Fleur Anderson) and for West Ham for their words about Kate Ferguson and protection approaches, and for explaining eloquently why they matter so much. I have worked with Kate Ferguson both in opposition and in government, which shows you how long this relationship is, Mr Paisley. I too pay tribute to her for the drive and ambition with which she prosecutes these issues.

Seventy-five years ago, a visionary group of leaders came together to make two bold statements of intent. In a world ravaged by war and divided by ideology, they recognised that every human on earth has certain inalienable rights—rights that must never again be threatened or trampled on—and so the universal declaration of human rights came into being. The day before endorsing the declaration, the United Nations General Assembly added the convention on genocide. It was a powerful recognition that in the aftermath of the holocaust, international co-operation is required to liberate humankind from the “odious scourge” of genocide that has—in all periods—inflicted great losses on humanity.

When one considers the world in which they were forged, the declaration and convention are remarkable achievements. They committed future generations to an immense responsibility. I think one of the best books I have ever read was that written by Philippe Sands, “East West Street”, which sets out very clearly the birth pangs of that strategy. When one considers the terrible challenges that the world faces today—humanitarian crises, conflicts and more—we feel the weight of that responsibility resting on all of our shoulders.

Britain is determined to carry onward the torch handed to us by those pioneers and do everything we can to protect life and dignity, and shape a world where human rights are safeguarded, democracy is at the fore and the rule of law is respected.

[Karen Bradley (Staffordshire Moorlands) (Con)]

I apologise for not being able to be here for the whole of this important debate. I am really interested in the points the Minister is making about ensuring human rights are embedded across the world. Does he recognise the role that the Inter-Parliamentary Union, the Commonwealth Parliamentary Association and other organisations play in promoting human rights to parliamentarians around the world? Will he join me in praising them for the way they help parliamentarians who believe in human rights to bring them to their Parliaments?

[Mr Mitchell]

I agree fulsomely with my right hon. Friend. She has undoubtedly read the international development White Paper, in which all these strands of thinking are drawn out. The Government made a very strong commitment in it to enable those brilliant organisations to continue their excellent work.

All hon. Members who spoke underlined the importance of shaping a world where human rights are safeguarded, democracy is at the fore and the rule of law is respected. I hope our forefathers would be pleased if they heard what the House has been saying today. We must use our voice on the international stage to highlight human rights violations, galvanise action and hold those responsible for abuses to account. All the while, we must work with partners across the globe to be a force for good, stand up for the vulnerable and champion equal rights for all. At a time when internationalism is so badly needed, we see an international system that is weak and divided, but let us never forget that in parts of the world where events and actions are very dark indeed, the UK has often been a beacon of light.

I am very pleased to have the opportunity to reflect on some of the key aspects of that work, which have been identified in the debate. First, on accountability, the recent events in Israel/Gaza are a tragedy, as many have set out. Together with the United States, last month we targeted the Hamas leadership with a new tranche of sanctions, restricting the group’s ability to operate. We have been clear that we support Israel’s right to defend itself proportionately in response to the terrorist acts by Hamas. We are appalled by the reports of rape and sexual violence committed during those brutal attacks on 7 October. The use of sexual violence as a weapon of war at any time, in any place, is abhorrent and a grotesque violation of international humanitarian law, and must be condemned without reservation. It is important that all action is in accordance with international humanitarian law, including the protection of civilians. Britain recently announced an additional £30 million of British aid for vital supplies into Gaza.

In Ukraine, nearly two years on from its illegal invasion, Russia continues to demonstrate a total disregard for human rights and human life. We led efforts to refer the situation in Ukraine to the International Criminal Court, and created the Atrocity Crimes

Advisory Group alongside our allies from the European Union and the United States. Inside Russia, repression has increased, with a systematic crackdown on civil society. Alongside partners, we have reiterated calls for the immediate release of those detained in Russia on political grounds.

Meanwhile, in October we delivered a statement on behalf of 50 countries at the UN, drawing attention to the serious violations being suffered by members of the Uyghur and other predominantly Muslim minorities in Xinjiang, China. In the Human Rights Council and UN Security Council, we led on resolutions establishing or renewing UN accountability mechanisms for Syria, South Sudan, Sudan and Iraq.

Reports of an increase in ethnicity-based violence in Darfur and elsewhere in Sudan are profoundly troubling. The international community must act to prevent history repeating itself.

On the subject of Sudan, which was raised by the hon. Members for West Ham and for Strangford, I wish to say a little more about what we are doing. Since the outbreak of conflict in April, over 6.3 million people have been displaced. In a BBC interview on 1 October I condemned the violence in western Sudan and made it clear that it

“bears all the hallmarks of ethnic cleansing.”

On 17 November Britain, alongside Troika partners—the United States and Norway—published a joint statement condemning the reported mass killings in west, central and south Darfur. The British Government are funding the Centre for Information Resilience, a research body that is gathering open-source evidence about the ongoing fighting in Sudan. This financial year we have provided £600,000 to CIR’s Sudan witness project.

Iran

Karen Bradley Excerpts

Thursday 6th July 2023 Commons Chamber

[James Cleverly]

The hon. Lady makes an important point about the courage of Iranian women—courage that is genuinely beyond measure. I have seen open-source footage of Iranian women, and actually Iranian men, standing up against the so-called morality police and others. She will know that the naming of thoroughfares is a decision not for central Government, but for local government. None the less, she makes an incredibly important point. Perhaps the planning committee of the local council might take her suggestion on board.

[Karen Bradley (Staffordshire Moorlands) (Con)]

Earlier this year, the British group of the Inter-Parliamentary Union hosted an event for BBC Persian where we heard incredibly powerful testimony from the journalists who were reporting on the very instant to which the hon. Member for Oxford West and Abingdon (Layla Moran) referred—those women’s protests. The freedom of those journalists to report is under great threat from the Iranian regime, so I welcome very much what my right hon. Friend has announced today, but can he confirm the Government’s support both for the continuation of the BBC Persian service and that Iran International will be able to return to the UK?

[James Cleverly]

My right hon. Friend echoes the Government’s strength of feeling about media freedom. I can reassure her and the House that, in my conversations with the very senior leadership of the BBC, I made a specific point about the importance of BBC Persian as part of the wider, positive influence on the world that the BBC World Service has had. We came to a funding arrangement with the BBC World Service to ensure that, certainly for the life of this Parliament, no language services will be closed. I recognise that, in times of disinformation and oppression, the voices of truth and freedom, as personified by the hard-working colleagues in the BBC Persian service, are more important than ever.

Commonwealth Parliamentary Association

Karen Bradley Excerpts

Thursday 6th July 2023 Commons Chamber

[Karen Bradley (Staffordshire Moorlands) (Con)]

I congratulate my right hon. Friend the Member for Basingstoke (Dame Maria Miller) on securing his debate. I want to make three specific points regarding the Commonwealth Parliamentary Association: first, the governance arrangements; secondly, the role of inter-parliamentary organisations; and, finally, the work that the CPA leads on in the very important world of modern slavery, on which it is a great leader.

Starting with the governance arrangements, I absolutely support my right hon. Friend in everything she has said. I attended the Commonwealth parliamentary conference in Halifax last year, where this was the No. 1 topic. This is not a bluff being called or a suggestion we will all get over. This is a matter of central importance to members of the CPA globally. They really do find this an incredibly sensitive issue, and we need to show sympathy and respect for that position and help them.

[Dame Maria Miller]

I thank my right hon. Friend for raising the issue of our conference last year, and she has reminded me of some of the conversations I was having with Members of Parliament, particularly from places, such as Canada, where we are negotiating trade agreements. It is these Members of Parliament who want to see consistency from the UK around our relationship with them as nations, but also as members of the Commonwealth.

[Karen Bradley]

I absolutely agree with my right hon. Friend. I think there is a statement that the UK Government could make here, which is about taking leadership and about demonstrating that we want to be active and sympathetic players in global events.

On not being able to take this step—this very simple step—I think my hon. Friend the Member for Rochford and Southend East (Sir James Duddridge) is a former Whip, as I am, and I recall opposed private business evenings when, after the day’s business had finished on a Wednesday, three hours were set aside for opposed private business. I doubt this would be opposed. I think we could get this through incredibly quickly, and we would not be asking the House to take much of its time to approve this measure. But it is such an important step, and I urge my right hon. Friend the Minister and the Whip on duty—the Vice-Chamberlain of His Majesty’s Household, my hon. Friend the Member for Bury St Edmunds (Jo Churchill)—to really press this point home with the business managers. A piece of legislation is ready to go, and it has universal support in this House and in the other place. It would be such a great thing if those of us going to Ghana this year for the CPC could stand up, hold our heads high and say, “We listened and, as the UK, we took the steps you asked us to take.” That would make an enormous difference.

My second point is around the importance and value of multilateral organisations, particularly those for parliamentarians. As the chair of the British Group Inter-Parliamentary Union and an active member of the Commonwealth Parliamentary Association UK, I want the House to know that those organisations present such important opportunities. Looking around, I do not think that anyone here has not been on a delegation for at least one of them. We also have the British-Irish Parliamentary Assembly, which I am very honoured to co-chair, the British-American Parliamentary Group, and we now have our new EU friendship group. These things are very important. If we do not understand what we are doing here as parliamentarians and understand what is happening in other Parliaments, we simply are not going to develop and learn or be able to tackle important global issues.

We all have a common goal here. The Inter-Parliamentary Union recently hosted an important inter-faith dialogue in Marrakesh that marked the first time that it has brought together civil society, faith groups and parliamentarians; it was the first time that we saw together in one room representatives from all the major faiths on this planet. They were all there talking about our common goals, such as climate change and global migration, which affects us all. Parliamentarians have a real role to play not only in helping Governments to get the necessary legislation through in these areas, but in influencing our constituents, organisations and those around us. The CPA is the only organisation that includes all the devolved legislatures, the provincial legislatures, the state legislatures, the overseas territories and the Crown dependencies. Parliamentarians from all those organisations take part in CPA events, and that is such a powerful and important thing for helping us to understand that we have shared problems that require shared solutions.

That takes me on to the shared problem that we have regarding modern slavery and human trafficking. CPA UK has been a world leader on this issue. When I was the Minister for Modern Slavery in the Home Office in 2014, CPA UK was leading the work that could be done by parliamentarians around the world. The Commonwealth has an important role to play in tackling this issue, full stop, because it contains source countries, transit countries and destination countries for victims of trafficking. The leadership that the Commonwealth can show helps to change legislation globally, and the CPA helps to ensure that legislation changes at a parliamentary level in every one of our Parliaments.

I have taken part in many events that CPA UK has hosted here. I have spoken about issues at global delegations, and I cannot praise CPA UK and its team enough for the global lead that they play. This is such an important organisation. The Government have an opportunity here to do a very small thing with a bit of Government time to get this legislation through. It would make an amazing difference, and it would absolutely solidify CPA UK and the CPA’s place in this Parliament.

[Several hon. Members rose—]

--- Later in debate ---

[David Mundell (Dumfriesshire, Clydesdale and Tweeddale) (Con)]

Before I begin my speech, I want to put on the record my thanks to Jon Davies, who is our retiring chief executive of the CPA. CPA UK has benefited enormously from Jon’s diplomatic skills and diligence over the years. Like you, Mr Deputy Speaker, I should perhaps declare an interest as a member of the executive committee of CPA UK.

[Karen Bradley]

I have only just spoken, so I am grateful to my right hon. Friend for giving way. He reminds me that we heard about Jon Davies’s incredible diplomatic skills at yesterday’s AGM. We also heard from our hon. Friend the Member for Blackpool North and Cleveleys (Paul Maynard) that Jon Davies is able to remove bird poo from Members of Parliament in the most discreet way imaginable. I think we should put on the record that that is a great skill, and one that CPA UK has valued. [Laughter.]

[David Mundell]

I do not think there is anything that can be said in response to that particular point, but I know Jon to be multiskilled from my own experience of him.

I begin by slightly disagreeing with my hon. Friend the Member for Rochford and Southend East (Sir James Duddridge), which I have of course never done previously, in that this issue does impact on major global issues, particularly Russia. My experience, having twice led a delegation to South Africa, is that Russia very much wants to extend its influence into South Africa and into Africa. It is exactly the inertia of the UK and its colonialist views that are used to take that forward. The delegation I led was denounced in the South African Parliament by the Economic Freedom Fighters, which to be fair is an extreme group. Its members stood up and decried our delegation as neo-colonialists and condemned the Commonwealth and the Commonwealth Parliamentary Association.

Not acting on this issue gives succour to people making that argument, and it gives succour to Russia, which fanned the flames of that argument. Last year, I met the Deputy Speaker of the South African Parliament as part of the delegation, and that was the first issue he raised with me. A year later, I met him again, and what had we done? My hon. Friend the Member for Bridgwater and West Somerset (Mr Liddell-Grainger) had had a debate and effectively had a brush off, but we had done nothing to move this issue forward. We are not able to convince Commonwealth colleagues that we are taking this issue seriously if we simply do nothing. We can have this debate today, where we are placated at the end and nothing happens, but action is required.

--- Later in debate ---

[Anne-Marie Trevelyan]

My right hon. Friend’s extremely helpful suggestion is duly noted, by all, I am sure.

[Karen Bradley]

If we look at Monday’s business, we see that we may have an opportunity then; she might want to take that to the business managers.

Overseas Territories

Karen Bradley Excerpts

Thursday 11th May 2023 Commons Chamber

[Karen Bradley (Staffordshire Moorlands) (Con)]

I pay tribute to my hon. Friend the Member for Rutland and Melton (Alicia Kearns) for securing this debate. I wish to make a brief intervention in my capacity as the Chair of the House of Commons Procedure Committee. It has struck me, in the work we are carrying out, that in this place we often fail to recognise the impact of what we do here on those very important parts of our family, the overseas territories and the Crown dependencies.

I was struck by that most when I visited Gibraltar last year as a delegate of the BIMR—British Islands and Mediterranean region—meeting of the women’s part of the Commonwealth Parliamentary Association. There are a lot of acronyms. Our delegation was very ably led by your colleague, Mr Deputy Speaker, my right hon. Friend the Member for Epping Forest (Dame Eleanor Laing).

As parliamentarians do when we get together, we talked about how often we meet, what the hours are and what the facilities are like. We were shocked to discover that in Gibraltar, the Parliament had not met for about five months. In fact, last year the Parliament in Gibraltar met on only six occasions. It has already met on eight occasions this year. The reason we were given for the meetings of Parliament not happening was that there simply was not capacity in the system to have Parliament meeting while Gibraltar, which is on the frontline of the land border with the European Union, was absorbing the impact of the UK leaving the EU.

I pass no judgement on the decision to leave the European Union; this is not a comment on that. The comment I want to make is that I do not think we, in this place, thought about that. I have a horrible suspicion that, when we were debating that decision, the impact on places like Gibraltar and other overseas territories simply was not discussed. I do not disagree that these issues are talked about at a ministerial level, and I know the Joint Ministerial Council discusses them, but where in our procedures do we have the ability to give a voice to our friends, our family, in the overseas territories and Crown dependencies?

[Lloyd Russell-Moyle]

The right hon. Lady makes an important point. My view, as I have expressed, is that we should have MPs here with voting rights. Other areas do it differently. In the US, for example, there are representatives without voting rights, but with full participation rights. We must find a solution along those lines, otherwise we are all negligent. They are the best people to make their own voices heard.

[Karen Bradley]

I agree with the hon. Gentleman that the best people to listen to on these matters are those from the overseas territories—and, I must say, the Crown dependencies, which are also impacted by what we do.

Our inter-parliamentary relations are incredibly important. The CPA, the British Group of the Inter-Parliamentary Union, which I chair, and the British-Irish Parliamentary Assembly, which I am honoured to co-chair, are important forums in which we can have dialogue and discuss these matters, but we simply do not allow them to be heard in the legislative process.

The Procedure Committee, which I chair—my hon. Friend the Member for Bracknell (James Sunderland) is a fellow member—has been discussing, as part of an inquiry we have been carrying out for some time on the territorial constitution, how we might work better as the UK Parliament in Westminster to appreciate the impact of what we do on the devolved nations, the Crown dependencies and the overseas territories. As Chair of the Committee, I intend to ensure that we think about real changes to procedure that we could recommend and that this House could adopt.

I sense from what has been said in the Chamber that there is an appetite to build into our processes and procedures the ability for those voices to be heard. As we have heard, the overseas territories matter so much to us in Parliament, for many reasons—I will not repeat them. They matter to our constituents and to the whole of the United Kingdom, and we must make sure that when we make decisions in this place, they do not have unintended consequences that adversely affect our friends, because that would be tragic.

Future of Soft Power

Karen Bradley Excerpts

Wednesday 16th March 2022 Westminster Hall

[Mr Baron]

I completely concur with the hon. Gentleman’s comments. Sometimes we talk about figures and percentages too much in this place. We need to step back and realise that the British Council does an awful lot of good work that reaches into people’s lives on a global basis.

[Karen Bradley (Staffordshire Moorlands) (Con)]

I congratulate my hon. Friend on securing this debate and on his work chairing the APPG, of which I am a member. He makes the point around soft power and the value we get from that. The British Council really does punch above its weight, as does the whole UK, in terms of soft power, but there is a price for liberty, which we are seeing all too clearly around the world at the moment. That price is eternal vigilance. That means we need to invest in those assets, such as the British Council. Does my hon. Friend agree that that is vital?

[Mr Baron]

I completely agree. I have been remiss in not thanking APPG members for being here today and contributing to the debate.

I am conscious that others want to contribute. I know we have half an hour, but I do not want to speak for the full 15 minutes. I want to address the issue of funding with the Minister, because funding the British Council was one reason I applied for this debate.

Let me be clear: the Government were generous in increasing the budget to the British Council during the pandemic, but the problem is that it was still £10 million short of fully compensating the British Council when it came to its commercial activities. For those who do not know—I do not think anyone here does not—its commercial activities essentially centre on teaching English in the far east.

Being £10 million short, it had to close 20 country operations, which is an ongoing process. Those countries were Australia, Canada, New Zealand, the USA, Slovakia, Slovenia, Malta, Switzerland, Belgium, Croatia, Montenegro, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Kosovo, North Macedonia, Afghanistan, Chile, Namibia, Uruguay, South Sudan and Sierra Leone. That is a long list of countries, including the Five Eyes and others, where we should not be closing the British Council’s soft power operations.

The British Council wants to be ambitious about what it delivers for the UK, in partnership with the Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office, when the world reopens for business and manages the shock of Russian aggression in eastern Europe. However, looking at the CSR—the comprehensive spending review—budget going forward, having the 20 closures in train, we were delighted to see a 21% increase in funding for the FCDO over a three-year period. The Minister will recognise that figure. Yet, we now find that further cuts are being proposed to the British Council, below the £171 million of annual public funding that the council needs to carry on its sterling work across the global network, when it put its bid in to the FCDO.

In other words, despite the FCDO receiving a 21% funding increase over the three-year period, the British Council was going to be cut. Those negotiations are ongoing. I implore the Minister to have a look at the figures and to try and ensure that there are no further country closures, because the British Council is already having to deal with 20 from the previous cuts. Any more would hardly fit with the ambition and concept of global Britain. We need to show solidarity with our friends and allies, not only to counter the rising threat of autocracy around the world, but to secure much needed trade deals for the UK. We stand less chance of doing that if we are cutting our soft power capabilities in key countries, many of them strong allies of the UK.

In conclusion, my questions to the Minister are threefold. First, will she confirm when the British Council will receive notice of its full allocation for the spending review period? I ask that because the organisation cannot be expected to make any plans given the uncertainty created by this lack of notice; it needs to know sooner rather than later.

Secondly, will the Government confirm that the current negotiations will not result in a further cut, itself resulting in further country closures? I hope the Government get it, in the sense of understanding that we need to strengthen the UK’s soft power capability during this moment of global stability.

Finally, will the Government stop touting the figure of a 26% funding increase? I have heard it bandied about so often, but it is misleading because it is comparing a pandemic year with a non-pandemic year. It is not comparing like for like. Despite a 26% increase in funding, the figure was still £10 million short of fully compensating the British Council for its loss of commercial revenue during the pandemic year, which is why it had to close 20 country operations. Hiding behind percentage increases does not mask the truth that we withdrew from the world stage, because there was a £10 million shortfall that resulted in those 20 county closures. I look forward to hearing the Minister’s response.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Mahmood]

Very briefly, there is never a reason to speak after the chairman of the APPG has spoken, because he is always so eloquent, particularly in describing the needs of the British Council, and some great work has been done for a long time in support of it.

The hon. Member talked with passion about the British Council, and I agree with him, because as I said in my intervention, it is not just a financial organ. I would caution the Government against knowing the cost of everything and the value of nothing, because value is what the British Council has provided. In Russia, for instance, it has provided a huge amount of access to education. In Commonwealth countries in particular, it provides a huge amount of access for people who would not otherwise have access to the type of education that those countries need to become better democracies and to build better communities and societies that we want to engage with. That is the value of the British Council: supporting people to do that and to go on to higher and further education. But on top of that, when people enter into education their mindsets change, away from other doctrines and towards democracy and valuing human life. That is one of the really important things that the British Council does.

The British Council also does a huge amount to support our trade, because when we have people understanding English and coming here to get their education at our universities, they build up links that they want to retain when they go back, whether they are in private or Government jobs, and the amount of connection that creates is of huge value. The £10 million shortfall over the covid period was a horrendous loss for those countries and their people’s education. It has had a huge effect on those people, who we want to be able to support.

I will be quick, Ms Rees, because I know that time is limited. We have to understand the value of this work. This is why we are all so passionate about it. We have to understand that it is not just about what we put in to keep those offices open; it is also about the value we get in return, because the soft power that the hon. Member for Basildon and Billericay (Mr Baron) spoke about is hugely important.

[Karen Bradley]

I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman, who indulges me by allowing me to intervene a second time. Does he agree that it would be wonderful if there was some way of assessing the value of institutions such as the British Council, which is so much more than the money that goes in? If only the Treasury had a way of assessing the overall value to the United Kingdom, rather than just looking at the pounds going in, we would appreciate those institutions all the more.

[Mr Mahmood]

I totally agree with the right hon. Lady, who makes a valid point. That sort of assessment could be made if we looked at the number of people who come to our universities to be educated and who then keep in contact when they go back home, and also through our embassies and our imports.

The hon. Member for Basildon and Billericay made an important point about Brexit and having new deals and contracts with different countries. Once we have that heritage, people want to talk to us. Once we have that connection, people want to come back and talk to us, and to make sure that they retain that connection. That is really important for us. Certainly in the Maghreb countries, there are people who are moving away from France and want more English classes in order to understand English, so that is another issue we should look at. That would mean an incalculable amount of finance coming back into the country, so we need to look at that.

I will reinforce the case made by the hon. Member for Basildon and Billericay by urging the Minister to ensure that we get a clear indication of the budgets that will be set, bearing in mind the losses there have been, and hopefully those will now be increased. Such an investment would be well made not just for the British Council but, most importantly, for us as the United Kingdom.

Official Development Assistance and the British Council

Karen Bradley Excerpts

Wednesday 30th June 2021 Commons Chamber

[Karen Bradley (Staffordshire Moorlands) (Con)]

May I start by referring to my entry in the Register of Members’ Financial Interests? I congratulate the hon. Member for Rotherham (Sarah Champion) on securing this debate and my right hon. Friend the Member for Sutton Coldfield (Mr Mitchell) on the fantastic contributions that he has made to this debate over many, many years. I have to confess that I was not expecting a full seven minutes. I have three points to make, although I will pad them out slightly more than I might have done in the three minutes that I was expecting.

My first point is about the way in which we conduct foreign policy in this country. My hon. Friend the Member for Tonbridge and Malling (Tom Tugendhat), who chairs the Foreign Affairs Committee, referred to this issue earlier. If the UK wants to have a policy-based foreign policy that is led by the Foreign and Commonwealth Office, which is now the Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office, it needs to include within that the trade policy and defence policy. The Foreign and Commonwealth Office was a very good policy Department; it was excellent at policy. The old Department for International Development was an excellent delivery Department, as are the Department for International Trade and the Ministry of Defence.

I can well understand why a Prime Minister would wish to restructure our approach to foreign policy; having a Foreign Secretary who is responsible for all areas of foreign policy makes an enormous amount of sense. But government works by having Ministers with different responsibilities and having tension between those Ministers. A Minister—particularly a Minister at Cabinet—responsible for international development focuses their efforts on that, and the Foreign Secretary could consider the whole range of foreign policy with the Secretary of State for Defence, the Secretary of State for International Trade and that Secretary of State for International Development. Not having that seat at the Cabinet table, not having that dedicated Department and not even having a dedicated Minister within the Department is a mistake from the point of view of the United Kingdom, because that political tension makes for better decision making.

[Sarah Champion]

I am grateful to the right hon. Member for the point that she is making. Does she agree that there is also a trickle-down of that tension, in that we now have ambassadors who are having to make cuts to programmes in the very countries where they are trying to negotiate the trade deals, diplomatic relationships and complex human rights issues that this country is so good at trying to navigate?

[Karen Bradley]

I absolutely agree; that is my point. If our ambassadors are responsible merely for diplomatic relations, that is one thing, but if they are to be responsible for making decisions around international development, they should also be responsible for decisions around defence and trade, because it is all part of one policy area. It is actually much healthier for government—[Interruption.] The Minister looks like he wants me to give way. Does he wish me to sit down? I will.

[James Duddridge]

I cannot contain myself. Ambassadors are responsible for the whole of Her Majesty’s Government.

[Karen Bradley]

My hon. Friend, who is one of my oldest friends in this place, makes a very important point. However, the hon. Member for Rotherham also makes the point that if ambassadors are having to make decisions on cutting programmes at the same time as developing diplomatic relations and representing every bit of HMG, that will make their jobs that much harder.

My second point is about the 0.7%. I listened to my hon. Friend, and I have great sympathy with the fact that he feels that he is in a den of people who disagree with him. I do not actually disagree with him that much. I think he would be surprised to discover that I accept that we are in the most extraordinary times. I do not like anything about this pandemic: I do not like the fact that this House is empty, I do not like the fact that I cannot see my loved ones, and I really do not like the fact that we do not have the money that we should have and would like to have. I would much, much rather we did have that money, but I accept that we do not.

However, the programmes and the organisations that rely on British aid need to know that the money will be restored next year. I have spent significant time talking to the Global Fund to End Modern Slavery. The programmes it will need to cut if it does not have certainty about spending next year will really damage the work that it and the organisations that it supports have spent years doing. The problem is that someone else will move in and take that space. Someone else that we may disagree with will start to move in those circles and take on projects, and years and years of building up relationships will be wasted. It is all part of soft power: the power that being a permanent member of the Security Council gives us; the power that being a country that meets our NATO commitments gives us; and the power that meeting the 0.7% commitment gives us. It may be an arbitrary target and there may be a debate to be had about whether it is the right target, but that is not what we are debating today. We are debating whether we meet the manifesto commitment and whether we are going to return to that manifesto commitment. I ask my hon. Friend, who, as I say, is one of the greatest men that I know—he has whipped me and then I have whipped him in the past—please to confirm that he will return to the 0.7% commitment next year so that we can hold our heads up high in the world. It is imperative that, if the Government cannot give that commitment, this House has a vote on the matter.

A small amount of money spent at source makes an enormous amount of difference to the people at home. We have heard talk about whether we choose between people at home or people elsewhere. There is no such choice. The migrants crossing the channel from Calais are getting on those unsafe boats because organised criminals have told them that there is a route to get to the United Kingdom if they do so. In spending overseas development money, I suspect that not as much money needs to be spent at source to try to deal with that organised criminality as we are spending trying to send those dinghies back. I say to my hon. Friend: let us think about how we can make sure that we spend that money in the right places and do what we need to do.

[Sarah Champion]

On the right hon. Lady’s point about the migrants in the channel, the director of the World Food Programme said to me, “You are removing money from the areas in Africa where the terrorists are recruiting. Do you not think that they will be using the exact same routes to get into the UK that the migrants looking for work are using?” I agree with him.

[Karen Bradley]

I absolutely agree with the hon. Lady. This is not an either/or. Money spent there will save money upstream. I know that the Treasury scorecard is very difficult to comprehend and that this is not necessarily how it works, but that relatively small amount of money will save enormous amounts of money at home and will make the world a better place for all of us.

My final point is on the British Council. I am disappointed by the situation that we have arrived at. I know that the Government have put an enormous amount of money into the British Council. The British Council is normally pretty much self-sustaining. Its language schools and language business mean that it pays for about 85% of its costs in normal times—but, as I have said, we are not in normal times. Like so many other organisations, the British Council has not been able to deliver the services that it would have delivered and therefore make the income that can and needs to make. We are talking about money for two years so that it can get back on its feet. The price that we will pay for not meeting that request by the British Council is that we will see the closure of offices around the world, including in the US, Afghanistan and other places.

I said in respect of international aid that other countries will move in; there can be no doubt about the significance of the British Council and its offices, and about the idea of another power moving into those offices where the British Council has been. Yes, the British Council sells language services to the public, but the service it provides to the United Kingdom is about far more than just language services. The British Council is about Britain’s place in the world and is perhaps the most visible part of our soft power that anyone sees in any country they have visited. I was able to travel the world as a Minister at many levels and as a Select Committee member, and the British Council was always present, promoting Britain, British values and British interests. I say to my hon. Friend the Minister: please try to find a way to support the British Council so that we do not have to see the closure of posts. Once we have moved out and those relationships are lost, they will never be regained; someone else will move in and we will be a poorer country for it.

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Nigel Evans)]

The time limit is eight minutes. I call Sir Edward Leigh.

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[Sir Edward Leigh]

I am sure that is right. I accept that if we took an opinion poll in the Gainsborough constituency, a majority—perhaps even a strong majority— would be in favour of these cuts. I accept that, but if for a moment the Government explained what the money is spent on, they would find that the British people are kind and humanitarian. People in Lincolnshire often say to me, “Why are we giving money to India? They have aircraft carriers and a space programme.” I shall leave aside the utter poverty of hundreds of millions of people in Uttar Pradesh; why are we living through this horrible lockdown? Why are we spying on Ministers with cameras and having a complete moral void? Because of the delta variant, which has come from where? India. Whether it is the pandemic or migrants, we cannot insulate ourselves from the world. That is why we have an overseas aid programme.

[Karen Bradley]

A point that I wanted to make—I ran out of time despite the fact that I had more than three minutes—is that actually, for many people 0.5% is the wrong percentage as well; the amount of aid that they wish to be spent is zero. So actually the Government, by going from 0.7% to 0.5%, are not achieving anything in terms of popularity.

[Sir Edward Leigh]

That is precisely the point that I wanted to make.

By the way, I am proud of the work that we did on the Public Accounts Committee to get an estimates day debate that actually discusses estimates. In the past, before our successful campaign, the one thing we were not allowed to discuss was estimates. Indeed when one of my colleagues, the then MP for Southport, stood up and tried to discuss estimates he was ruled out of order by your predecessor, Mr Deputy Speaker. So we are talking today about money, and this is precisely the point I want to come to.

I am No. 39 on the call list. I could devote my entire speech to the humanitarian arguments, but I have listened to previous speeches and I associate myself with them entirely. I just cannot for a moment understand why we are cutting aid to Yemen by 50%. The scenes there were appalling. The Chancellor very kindly paid me in the summer to go to Doddington Hall and have a very nice meal with my family under Eat Out to Help Out. Was that money well spent? Then I look at what is happening in Yemen, where some poor boy goes out and his leg is blown off, or the father goes out and he is never seen again. This is dire poverty, war, deprivation. Leaving aside whether this problem washes up on our shores or not, do we not have a duty to these people?

I so well remember talking to a woman in northern Iraq. That very thing had happened to her—one day her husband had gone out and he was never seen again. So of course we have very serious problems in Lincolnshire, but not compared to what is happening in Yemen. We just cannot turn our back; we cannot walk down the other side of the road.

British Council

Karen Bradley Excerpts

Tuesday 8th June 2021 Commons Chamber

[Nigel Adams]

Absolutely; we hugely value the influence of the British Council. We will continue to support it in the leading role that it plays, enhancing the United Kingdom through its work overseas. As I mentioned previously, the Integrated Review reiterated our commitment to soft power. It recognised the contribution of the British Council. The Prime Minister’s foreword to the Integrated Review policy paper referred to the British Council as one of the “vital instruments” of our influence overseas.

[Karen Bradley (Staffordshire Moorlands) (Con)]

My right hon. Friend the Minister will shortly be able to travel the world, and when he does so he will find that the presence of the British Council on site is the best embodiment of global soft power that this country has. The British Council has a funding shortfall because it cannot operate commercially. Can my right hon. Friend please find it in him to give that additional support to make sure that that on-site presence is there for when he makes those ministerial visits?

[Nigel Adams]

I thank my right hon. Friend for her question. May I correct the record—with apologies, because she is a very good friend of mine—as I am an hon. Member rather than a right hon. Member? Either way, she will appreciate that plans for the global presence of the British Council are still being finalised. We have provided a package of support and an increase in funding of which, as I said, many arm’s length bodies would be extremely envious. It is, of course, for the British Council to comment on its plans for the overseas network, but I assure my right hon. Friend that those final decisions will be communicated shortly.