Occupational Pension Schemes (Climate Change Governance and Reporting) Regulations 2021

Baroness Stedman-Scott Excerpts

Monday 12th July 2021 Lords Chamber

Tabled by

[Baroness Stedman-Scott]

That the draft Regulations laid before the House on 8 June be approved. Considered in Grand Committee on 5 July.

[Lord Ashton of Hyde (Con)]

My Lords, on behalf of my noble friend the Minister, I beg to move the Motion standing in her name on the Order Paper.

Covid-19: Work-related Cases

Baroness Stedman-Scott Excerpts

Monday 5th July 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord McKenzie of Luton]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what assessment they have made of the report by the Trades Union Congress RIDDOR, Covid and underreporting, published on 23 May; and what steps they plan to take in response to the finding that work-related cases of COVID-19 leading to deaths have been underreported.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Work and Pensions (Baroness Stedman-Scott) (Con)]

RIDDOR requires responsible persons, usually employers in relation to employees, to report certain Covid-19 cases to the relevant enforcing authority. Over 33,000 cases have been reported since 10 April 2020. Not all cases of Covid-19 involving employees are reportable, only those where there is reasonable evidence that an occupational exposure at work led to infection. The Health and Safety Executive has reviewed the TUC report and is considering what, if any, additional action is required.

[Lord McKenzie of Luton (Lab) [V]]

My Lords, RIDDOR should play an important role in collecting data on work-related injury and death as well as dangerous occurrences. It is not an optional arrangement. The mechanism requires a layer of accountability on employers and is a public record of works relating to offices and fatalities. However, matters are not proceeding as they should; it is not working well. There are various accounts of underreporting. I think the Minister has just accepted that this underreporting has been around for some time, and perhaps we can be told why action has not been taken previously. I welcome the news that the HSE is going to get involved and look further at this issue.

[Baroness Stedman-Scott (Con)]

Given the complex system in which transmission of the virus occurs, it is extremely difficult to accurately identify the actual transmission point for any individual, and no one system—for example, RIDDOR—enables this attribution to be made.

[Baroness Eaton (Con) [V]]

What contribution does RIDDOR make in understanding workplace transmission?

[Baroness Stedman-Scott (Con)]

RIDDOR provides an important source of intelligence about occupational exposure to coronavirus in the workplace but is not the only source of intelligence that the HSE relies on. In addition to RIDDOR in the reporting of occupational cases of Covid-19, Public Health England is the lead government body for monitoring infection rates and the scale and spread of infections more widely, both in the community and in workplace settings. The HSE has worked and will continue to work closely with Public Health England throughout the pandemic.

[Lord Hendy (Lab)]

My Lords, does the Minister agree that underreporting may be a consequence of HSE advice? Regulation 9 requires a case of Covid in the workforce to be reported if

“attributed to an occupational exposure”.

The HSE advice is that employers

“do not need to conduct extensive enquiries in seeking to determine whether a COVID-19 infection is work-related. The judgement should be made on the basis of the information available.”

That advice surely misleads. The regulation requires some investigation, at least into whether the worker, her colleagues or the safety rep attributes Covid to work.

[Baroness Stedman-Scott (Con)]

The Health and Safety Executive guidance, with advice from the Government Legal Department, does not exclude the reporting of cases of workers whose job involves dealing with the public. RIDDOR places a duty to report on the employer, and they must make a judgment based on the information they have. The Health and Safety Executive has never publicly stated that Regulation 9(b) or its supporting guidance has been misapplied.

[Baroness Janke (LD) [V]]

Does the Minister recognise that the severe cuts to the HSE have led to fewer inspections and, as a result, more underreporting? What plan do the Government have to reinstate the HSE budget?

[Baroness Stedman-Scott (Con)]

I am pleased to say that the Health and Safety Executive has had additional funding throughout the year along with enormous staff increases. This will continue to be worked on, and the HSE and the DWP continue to review and revise the resourcing arrangements as necessary.

[Baroness Wilcox of Newport (Lab)]

My Lords, may I press the Minister a little further on her previous reply? The TUC report found that there was likely to have been significant underreporting in the number of work-related Covid deaths, arguing that it was just not credible that only 2.5% of working-age Covid deaths were down to occupational exposure. Does she believe that funding cuts of 46% to the HSE over the past decade, notwithstanding the short-term fix of a one-off payment, have impacted on reporting under RIDDOR as well as affecting the process of investigation?

[Baroness Stedman-Scott (Con)]

There have been cuts to the budget in the past. That has been rectified and an increased budget has been put in place, as has an increased resourcing budget. As of the end of April, it had 2,670 staff. There has been an extra £14.2 million available to the HSE on top of its regular government funding. Additional funding has enabled it to continue to inspect significantly more workplaces.

[Baroness Altmann (Con)]

My Lords, I welcome the extra funding for the HSE. I hope that noble Lords will recognise the difficulty, with a widespread pandemic, of identifying whether a particular infection is caused in one setting or another. Therefore, I would be grateful if my noble friend might give a little more information on the role that the HSE has played during the pandemic.

[Baroness Stedman-Scott (Con)]

The HSE has been really busy and proactive during the pandemic in three key areas: regulating, by targeting businesses and organisations, to prevent workplace transmission; working with other government departments, developing, assisting and promulgating policy guidance and research; and providing other workplace regulatory functions, including market surveillance to ensure a safe supply chain.

[Baroness Donaghy (Lab) [V]]

My Lords, Covid-19 infections in food factories could be more than 30 times underreported. The HSE said that the figure lacked credibility. In transport, there were 608 Covid deaths among workers and only 10 notifications during a similar period, a rate of just 1%. These are shocking figures. Second only to Romania, we have had the highest level of cuts to inspectors since 2010, and many of these industries have extremely poor sickness absence pay. This lets employers off the hook and the Government are complicit in this appalling level of underreporting. What further action will the Government take to deal with this?

[Baroness Stedman-Scott (Con)]

I will need to look to my noble friend Lady Vere, sitting to my left, to get some information about transport and Covid reporting there; she will like me for that. Given the number of Covid clusters among food and drink manufacturing workers towards the end of 2020, the HSE organised a series of proactive high-risk sector inspections to be carried out. Inspectors carried out 531 site visits and 58 remote inspections, 62 of which resulted in written correspondence. Inspection topics included ensuring that, in the organisation of work, changing and welfare areas allowed for social distancing proportionate to the situation.

[Baroness Bennett of Manor Castle (GP) [V]]

My Lords, following on from the questions of the noble Baronesses, Lady Janke and Lady Wilcox, will the Minister acknowledge that of 52,000 proactive site visits over Covid, only 12,000 were conducted by trained inspectors? This is less than a quarter: the rest were handled by outsourced contractors. Will she acknowledge that ventilation was not on the script of those outsourced contractors? Given what we know about aerosol transmission and our increasing understanding of the problem of ventilation, does she agree that this is yet another example of where outsourcing to less experienced, skilled and trained staff has really damaged the quality of service that people have received?

[Baroness Stedman-Scott (Con)]

I ask the noble Baroness to allow me to go back to the department to talk about her outsourcing points. I would be very surprised if we outsourced to people who were not up to the job, but I will write to her.

[The Lord Speaker (Lord McFall of Alcluith)]

My Lords, the time allowed for this Question has elapsed.

Occupational Pension Schemes (Climate Change Governance and Reporting) Regulations 2021

Baroness Stedman-Scott Excerpts

Monday 5th July 2021 Grand Committee

Moved by

[Baroness Stedman-Scott]

That the Grand Committee do consider the Occupational Pension Schemes (Climate Change Governance and Reporting) Regulations 2021.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Work and Pensions (Baroness Stedman-Scott) (Con)]

My Lords, the draft Occupational Pension Schemes (Climate Change Governance and Reporting) Regulations 2021 were laid before this House on 8 June. I am pleased to introduce this instrument. Subject to approval, these regulations will deliver a key commitment set out in Government’s Green Finance Strategy for

“large asset owners to disclose in line with the TCFD”—

the international, industry-led Task Force on Climate-related Financial Disclosures—

“recommendations by 2022”.

These measures will see the UK become the first country in the world in which trustees of occupational pension schemes are statutorily required to consider, assess and report on the financial risks of climate change within their portfolios.

The regulations impose requirements on trustees of larger occupational pension schemes, authorised master trust schemes and, once established, authorised collective money purchase schemes for the identification, assessment and management of climate-related risks and opportunities. This includes requirements relating to governance, strategy and risk management as well as requirements to select and calculate climate-related metrics and to set and measure performance against targets.

Trustees will be required to meet these climate change governance requirements, which underpin the recommendations of the TCFD, and to report on how they have done so in line with the task force’s recommendations. Details of steps that should be taken to meet the requirements are included in the statutory guidance to which trustees must have regard. The regulations also confer compliance powers on the Pensions Regulator to enforce the new requirements.

Among other requirements, trustees will need to report on the risks that affect their portfolio, on how their investment strategy—and, in the case of defined benefit schemes, their funding strategy—would respond to different temperature rise scenarios, which will include consideration of the strength of the employer covenant, on the emissions attributable to their assets, their emissions intensity and their performance against targets that trustees have set.

The largest schemes and authorised schemes will be captured from 1 October 2021. From 1 October 2022, the regulations will apply to more than 70% of pension assets and more than 80% of pension members. The Government have committed to review the effectiveness of these regulations and statutory guidance in 2023. This will include the identification of any barriers, gaps and inconsistencies, as well as an assessment of whether the regulations remain appropriate and whether they should be extended to smaller schemes. I am satisfied that the Occupational Pension Schemes (Climate Change Governance and Reporting) Regulations 2021 are compatible with the European Convention on Human Rights.

Climate change is the defining challenge of our time. Our response will determine the future health and prosperity of our world. It is a major systemic financial risk and a threat to the long-term sustainability of UK private pensions. That is why it is vital that we act now. With almost £2 trillion in assets under management, all occupational pension schemes are exposed to climate-related risks, and such risks present a significant threat to the retirement outcomes of millions of savers. This threat presents itself through the risks to investments of a warmer planet and those associated with the transition to a low-carbon economy, for which all investors must be prepared. If we do not take steps now to address the risks climate change will bring shocks and long-term sustained damage to our economy. It is therefore vital that we ensure that pension scheme governance is as robust as possible to withstand these risks in both the short and long term.

It is for this reason that the Government have sought to prioritise climate change risks and opportunities in this instrument over the broader risks associated with environmental, social and governance considerations. Climate change is unique in the severity of investment risks associated with its impact and the pervasiveness of such risks. It is also for this reason that the Government have wasted no time in consulting on these regulations and bringing them before the Committee for debate.

The instrument provides that trustees of schemes with £5 billion or more in relevant assets and all authorised master trusts will be required to meet the governance requirements from 1 October this year and to produce and publish climate risk disclosures within seven months of their scheme year end. By adopting a phased approach, which sees the requirements fall on the largest schemes first, we expect such schemes to utilise their governance expertise and capacity to set an industry standard to those with at least £1 billion in relevant assets, who will have to meet the same requirements from 1 October 2022.

The instrument requires trustees to put in place processes of governance and risk management to assess the impact of climate change on their investment strategy and, where applicable, their funding strategy. It also requires trustees to conduct scenario analysis, calculate climate-related metrics and to set and measure performance against targets. These activities are all about trustee action, and details of steps that should be taken to meet these requirements are included in statutory guidance to which trustees must have regard. They go way beyond disclosure alone and therefore do not materially overlap in intent or effect with existing ESG policy disclosure requirements.

Activities required by these regulations that rely on data from other participants in the investment chain, such as scenario analysis, calculating metrics and reporting against targets, must be carried out by trustees

“as far as they are able”,

which means that trustees should take all such steps that are reasonable and proportionate in the particular circumstances, taking into account the costs, or likely costs, to the scheme and the time required to be spent. Nevertheless, impacts from climate change are already being felt. Trustees must act now and should not wait for perfect data to emerge before taking action to manage climate-related risks and opportunities. There is more than enough data to begin work with.

Let me be clear: these measures do not direct trustee decisions or seek to increase pressure for blanket divestment of pension schemes from high-carbon sectors. It is not for the Government to direct trustees to sell or buy certain assets, and these proposals do not create any expectation that schemes must divest or invest in a given way. I reiterate that these measures require trustees to identify, manage and assess climate-related risks. Ultimately, trustees retain primacy in any investment decisions they make following that assessment, whether it be the targets they set out or their wider investment strategy.

The effects of this instrument will be significant and transformative. By the end of 2023, the risks and opportunities climate change poses to £1.33 trillion-worth of pension savings will be assessed and published for all to see. Critically, this develops a system of accountability that we have never had before, and trustees will be required to show how climate change is likely to affect their portfolio.

To conclude, these measures cement the UK’s leadership in green finance. We were the first major economy to pass a net-zero emissions law, and now these measures on climate change risk and pensions are the first of their kind globally. I am sure noble Lords will agree that it is only right that pension scheme trustees take action to address climate change-related risks and protect the retirement savings of hard-working people. I commend this instrument to the Committee, and I beg to move.

--- Later in debate ---

[Baroness Stedman-Scott (Con)]

My Lords, I sincerely thank the noble Lord, Lord Davies, and the noble Baronesses, Lady Janke and Lady Sherlock, for their positive and direct questions on these regulations. I also start with an apology: it was remiss of me not to acknowledge the excellent cross-party work that got the pensions Bill on to the statute book. It was a very good example of how the House works well together. I hope that it will continue.

I say to the noble Lord, Lord Davies, that I am very happy to meet and to hold discussions on discretion. My office will seek to organise that.

I will try to deal with some of the questions raised. The noble Lord, Lord Davies, asked about the UK’s statutory commitment to net zero, and said that it needs to be reflected in pension scheme policies. The UK signed up to the Paris Agreement and to net zero, and to making the necessary changes in taxation, spending and regulation to achieve that target. We are making the changes to achieve that. We have not signed up to mandating every organisation and household to set net-zero targets, but we are encouraging organisations to commit to net zero in a way that works for them and to publish a plan to do so.

The noble Lord, Lord Davies, also asked what TPR’s strategy will be to ensure compliance with these new measures. TPR must issue a mandatory penalty in cases where the TCFD report is not published on a publicly available website that is accessible free of charge, as required by the regulations. In all other cases where TPR believes requirements are not being met, it has a range of enforcement options, including the discretion to issue a penalty notice. TPR also has the opportunity to publish the names and details of any breaches, which can be a powerful deterrent. TPR today published its consultation and compliance penalties. The consultation will be up for response until 31 August.

On to the homework set for me by the noble Lord, Lord Davies, on the issue of the hyphen. I will go away and find out. I will write to the noble Lord and place a copy in the Library.

The noble Baroness, Lady Janke, asked about the register of green investment options. Again, I will need to write to her on that issue.

The noble Baroness also asked about the status of the statutory guidance, and asked why there is also non-statutory guidance. In complying with the requirements in this instrument, trustees are required by new Sections 41A and 41B of the Pensions Act 1995 to have regard to statutory guidance prepared by the Secretary of State. This requirement does not apply to the trustee knowledge and understanding provisions, which will be made under different powers; the guidance accompanying those provisions is therefore not statutory guidance but is intended as best practice. Trustees are not required to have regard to it but they are encouraged to do so. Trustees of other schemes may also find the statutory guidance helpful when implementing climate change risk governance and reporting on a voluntary basis.

The noble Baroness, Lady Janke, talked about the lack of available data and reporting standards. The present data coverage does not prevent schemes taking steps to assess their exposure to climate risks, and the quality is improving. Our TCFD reporting requirements, as well as the requirements of others—including the Financial Conduct Authority and BEIS—will accelerate this progress significantly.

The noble Baroness, Lady Sherlock, asked whether trustees will be reliant on data from others to do proper analysis. She also asked whether the same requirements are being applied across the investment chain. The Government have already announced their intention to make TCFD-aligned disclosures mandatory across the economy by 2025, with a significant portion of mandatory requirements in place by 2023. This will produce regulatory alignment through the investment chain, which will capture asset managers, workplace personal pension schemes, UK-registered large private companies, insurance companies and banks by the end of 2023. This will increase the flow of data, which is vital for trustees to embed effective climate risk governance. The DWP has worked closely as part of a cross-government task force to ensure consistent climate-related financial disclosures up the investment chain.

The noble Baroness, Lady Sherlock, said that lots of schemes have not taken action. Actually, 85% of DC pension savers are in a scheme that has set a net-zero target.

The noble Baroness asked why we have limited the threshold for being in scope at £1 billion. All savers have the right to benefit from effective governance and the reporting of climate change risk, regardless of the size of the scheme, but the Government do not wish to impose disproportionate burdens on trustees. Schemes with £1 billion or more in assets have the resources in place to allow them to implement and report on the range of governance and assessment measures set out in the regulations to a high standard, with a high probability of overall benefit to the members. The largest schemes can set an industry benchmark, drive demand for products, improve data flow and, ultimately, drive down costs for smaller schemes seeking to do TCFD reporting in future. The Government have committed to reviewing the effectiveness of the TCFD requirements in the regulations and statutory guidance in 2023. This will assess whether the regulations remain appropriate and whether they should be extended to smaller schemes.

The noble Baroness also asked what smaller schemes not in scope should be doing to manage their climate risk. Trustees do not need statutory requirements to begin meaningful action. They have a fiduciary duty to protect their members’ interests, and everyone should act now. As well as the statutory guidance, the DWP played a key role in producing and publishing the Pensions Climate Risk Industry Group guidance, which is a useful resource for all trustees whether they are in the scope of the new requirements or are just starting out.

The noble Baroness talked about the requirements announced in the Chancellor’s Mansion House speech. We will write to her on those.

Of course, the important issue of cost was discussed; indeed, it was mentioned by the noble Baroness, Lady Sherlock. We will monitor and review the cost, including in terms of what support is needed by trustees to fulfil their obligations.

Finally, the noble Baroness, Lady Janke, said that too many trustees do not have the necessary skills and asked what we are doing about it. Subject to the approval of this instrument, we intend to make regulations requiring trustees to have sufficient knowledge and understanding of the identification, assessment and management of climate-related risks and opportunities to enable them to exercise their functions properly. Those regulations were published in draft alongside our consultation response in June.

The noble Lord, Lord Davies of Brixton, reminded us that this is just the start. It is. I am sure that we will work together to put these regulations into action and review them as time goes on.

I conclude by reiterating the effect of this instrument. It will ensure that the largest occupational pension schemes, as well as authorised master trusts and authorised collective defined contribution schemes, have measures in place to identify, assess and manage climate-related risks and opportunities. The better management of climate risk will be in our interests, whether as pension savers or as pension takers and whether our interests are financial, environmental or social. I commend this instrument to the Committee.

Motion agreed.

Scotland Act 2016 (Social Security) (Consequential Provision) (Miscellaneous Amendment) Regulations 2021

Baroness Stedman-Scott Excerpts

Thursday 24th June 2021 Lords Chamber

Moved by

[Baroness Stedman-Scott]

That the draft Regulations laid before the House on 17 May be approved. Considered in Grand Committee on 22 June.

Motion agreed.

Child Maintenance Service

Baroness Stedman-Scott Excerpts

Thursday 24th June 2021 Grand Committee

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Work and Pensions (Baroness Stedman-Scott) (Con)]

My Lords, I thank the noble Lord, Lord Farmer, for his question, which has led to this important, albeit short, debate. I also thank all noble Lords who have participated and made many excellent points. I completely agree with the noble Baroness, Lady Sherlock—indeed, we all agree—that this is an important subject and area of work. In summing up, I will try to address as many of the points made as I can. If I cannot address all of them, I will write to colleagues in detail.

I hold surgeries every quarter with MPs from the Commons, and for all MPs who have written to me personally about cases, I have dealt with each and every one. So I commit to organising an all-Peers child maintenance session so that we have the time after this debate to get into the detail, as I know all noble Lords want to do.

My noble friends Lord McColl and Lady Eaton wanted to know that the child maintenance system is working. We continue to keep the child maintenance policy and our operational delivery under constant review. I was pleased that my noble friend Lady Eaton referred to the new digital services, such as the apply online service that has been introduced; it has reduced average application times, is available 24/7 and allows greater flexibility for separated parents to contact the Child Maintenance Service. Operational reforms such as these help to improve outcomes for children by enabling parents to set up and manage child maintenance arrangements in ways that suit their own circumstances.

The noble Baronesses, Lady Massey and Lady Sherlock, raised the National Audit Office report. I am pleased to confirm that our officials are working well with the National Audit Office—it is work in progress. It is a value-for-money study and will be completed during October and November.

On child maintenance performance and track record, I know that many noble Lords will have experience of the various child maintenance schemes—already referred to by my noble and learned friend Lord Mackay—that there have been over the years. This is an area where the Government have learned a lot. They are completely committed to ensuring that parents play their part and take responsibility for supporting their children. The child maintenance system has had a difficult history in our country, but I am sure most colleagues would agree that the Child Maintenance Service is a significant improvement. As has already been referenced, more than 750,000 children are now covered by child maintenance arrangements. In the past year—2019-20—more than £1 billion was due to be paid through direct pay and the collect and pay service. The compliance rate for parents on the collect and pay service has increased significantly, rising by six percentage points between the quarter ending December 2018 and the quarter ending December 2020.

As the noble Baroness, Lady Massey, said, during the Covid public health emergency, a number of temporary changes were made to the Child Maintenance Service. On the question that the noble Baroness, Lady Sherlock, asked me, 1,507 FTEs were redeployed in the Covid emergency to make sure that we could get money to people. I can give noble Lords a categoric assurance that they are all back and we are back in full service mode.

In December 2020, more than 40,000 paying parents on the collect and pay service had a deduction from earnings order in place, collecting more than £25 million. More than 60,000 deductions from benefits were in force and more than 3,500 deduction orders were in place, collecting a record £3.3 million from bank accounts. I am confident that we will maintain these improvements as we move forward.

My noble friend Lord Farmer and the noble Baronesses, Lady Massey and Lady Sherlock, raised the issue of enforcement powers. The Child Maintenance Service’s enforcement powers are strong and are used widely against those who consistently refuse to meet their obligations to support their children. I have been absolutely staggered at the lengths that people will go to in order to avoid paying their child maintenance. There was an absent dad who owed £80,000 in child maintenance and thought that he could avoid paying it, despite having a great lifestyle. The financial investigation and enforcement teams were right behind him and managed to get that £80,000, which was a life-changing amount of money for the receiving parent. He had £175,000 in the bank. So we are not having any of it—I can tell you that.

The noble Baroness, Lady Sherlock, raised the issue of child maintenance and child poverty. We know that child maintenance can play an effective role in reducing child poverty and enhancing the life outcomes of children in separated families. Child maintenance helps to reduce the chances of children being raised in the lowest 20% of the income distribution, and we know that approximately 120,000 fewer children are growing up in poverty as a result of child maintenance payments.

The noble Baroness, Lady Sherlock, raised the issue of lone parents, who are much more likely to live in low-income households. Extra money coming in through child maintenance can make a real difference to these families, as it is disregarded in full in universal credit. Lone parents get to keep every pound of maintenance paid, and we encourage lone parents on benefits to make a claim for child maintenance. I am pleased to say that my very first visit as a Minister was to Gingerbread and that my colleagues and officials have a very good ongoing relationship with both Gingerbread and Families Need Fathers, and we consistently listen to the issues that they raise with us.

I come now to parental conflict, which the noble Baroness, Lady Massey, my noble friend Lord Farmer and my noble and learned friend Lord Mackay all raised. When two people fall out, the repercussions are felt far and wide by children, and we are only too aware that we have to try to intervene at the right time to reduce this conflict. That is why we have our Reducing Parental Conflict programme, and we are very pleased with the impact that it has had to date. In government, we have a cross-departmental working group on it, involving the Department for Health and Social Care, the Home Office and MHCLG.

Of course, at this point, I want to raise family hubs. We have five government departments working together on family hubs, and we hope that the Reducing Parental Conflict programme can be one of the tools in their armoury. We know that the sooner we intervene in the breakdown of a relationship, the better the outcome can be—and I would be very happy to give more information to noble Lords about that when we meet again.

Before I close my remarks today and deal with some of the other issues that were raised, I will touch on domestic abuse, which I know is a matter of deep concern to all noble Lords. It is vital that the Child Maintenance Service plays its part in supporting victims of domestic abuse. We will continue to waive the application fee for domestic abuse victims and to provide support to allow victims to set up maintenance arrangements safely. The Child Maintenance Service has ramped up domestic abuse training for front-line staff and will continue to review its ways of working to further address a culture where victims of domestic abuse are in absolute poverty—they are a priority. In that vein, I am in the process of commissioning an independent review of ways in which the Child Maintenance Service supports victims of domestic abuse.

Noble Lords raised the issue of the consultation, which we have issued and are embarking on. I give an invitation to all noble Lords: if they have other things they want us to consider, the door is open and they should let us know what those things are. I would now like to cover other important issues that have been raised.

We are grateful to SSAC for raising issues and we have had the opportunity to discuss them with concerned stakeholders. The views expressed will be used to inform future policy development. In response to the noble Baroness, Lady Sherlock, I think I have already said that the system is now fully operational, and the number of staff on child maintenance has gone from 5,500 to 4,700 due to the last CSA cases being closed. Capacity of the system is broadly at pre-Covid levels.

Noble Lords raised the issue of aligning Great Britain with other jurisdictions. We are in close contact with officials in other jurisdictions. As my noble friend Lord Farmer observed, it is hard to transplant measures from one jurisdiction to another, but we continue to monitor international developments in this field. I believe that covers the issue of the situation in Australia. Dual income adds significant complexity to a child maintenance calculation and measures that work in one place do not necessarily work in another. I am happy to continue to discuss that and keep the issue under the review.

On family-based arrangements, we recognise that conflict is harmful to children and the intent of the 2012 maintenance reforms was to try to promote collaboration between separated parents. We know that a family-based arrangement is not for everybody, so we offer people other ways of paying. I think my noble friends Lord McColl and Lord Farmer raised the issue of the appeals process and whether it works. We have made changes to the appeals process and, if a complainant is still unsatisfied with the response they have, they can escalate it to the Parliamentary and Health Service Ombudsman. Noble Lords asked me to tell them about the progress of the Government’s commitment to supporting parents to make family-based arrangements. The survey we did will be published in due course.

I am sorry to have run out of time, because this is a subject dear to my heart; I could spend all day talking to noble Lords about it and answering your questions, believe me. Please go away from here understanding that we know child maintenance is important, we are on it and we are going to make the changes we need to make to take children out of poverty so they can get the best chances in life.

[The Deputy Chairman of Committees (Baroness Garden of Frognal) (LD)]

Thank you, Minister. That completes the business before the Grand Committee this afternoon. I remind Members to sanitise their desks and chairs before leaving the Room.

Scotland Act 2016 (Social Security) (Consequential Provision) (Miscellaneous Amendment) Regulations 2021

Baroness Stedman-Scott Excerpts

Tuesday 22nd June 2021 Grand Committee

Moved by

[Baroness Stedman-Scott]

That the Grand Committee do consider the Scotland Act 2016 (Social Security) (Consequential Provision) (Miscellaneous Amendment) Regulations 2021.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Work and Pensions (Baroness Stedman-Scott) (Con)]

My Lords, I am pleased to introduce this instrument, which was laid before the House on 17 May 2021. Subject to approval, the regulations will make some necessary legislative changes to prevent overlapping entitlements to the soon-to-be-introduced Scottish child disability payment and UK disability benefits. It will also permit the Department for Work and Pensions to accept the Scottish government appointee arrangements for UK government benefit purposes, thereby reducing the administrative burden for claimants and appointees in dealing with both Governments. I am satisfied that the regulations are compatible with the European Convention on Human Rights.

The UK Government are committed to making devolution work and to ensuring the safe and secure transition of powers to the Scottish Government under the Scotland Act 2016. As a result of the devolution of social security powers to the Scottish Parliament under this Act, the Department for Work and Pensions will need to update its legislation from time to time to reflect the introduction of the Scottish Government’s replacement benefits. Section 71 of this Act allows for the necessary legislative amendments, in this case as a result of benefits introduced under the Social Security (Scotland) Act 2018.

I am grateful for the opportunity to debate these regulations today. They will effect some purely technical changes and prevent overlapping entitlement to and payment of the Scottish child disability payment and UK disability benefits such as disability living allowance for children, personal independence payment and Armed Forces independence payment. It also includes some time-limited overlapping provisions for Northern Ireland. It will enable the Department for Work and Pensions to accept appointees over the age of 18 if they have already been granted appointee status by the Scottish Government. This is a positive change for claimants and staff.

Noble Lords will be aware that the Social Security (Scotland) Act 2018 established the legislative framework for the Scottish Government to introduce new forms of assistance using the social security powers devolved under Section 22 of the Scotland Act 2016. Specifically, Section 31 of the 2018 Act allows the Scottish Government to introduce legislation to provide financial support through their disability assistance for people in Scotland with long-term additional health needs. The Scottish Government have legislated for disability assistance for children and young people, which will be introduced from July 2021. They are calling this child disability payment; I will refer to it as CDP from now on.

I understand that CDP will have residency conditions attached and primarily will be paid only to claimants who live in Scotland. However, as part of their offer the Scottish Government will continue to pay CDP for a period of 13 weeks after a claimant has left Scotland and moved to another part of the UK. This will allow claimants time to sort out new benefit arrangements, should they wish to.

Our intention is to offer a similar facility for those moving to Scotland, though this will not be needed for a few years. What is needed now is a modest legislative amendment to deal with this policy, in order to both support the devolution agenda and strengthen a union that works together in the best interests of our shared citizens.

If these regulations are passed today, they will ensure that there are clear boundaries between entitlement to CDP and entitlement to a similar UK government benefit, and that there is no overlapping provision of entitlement. They will do that by making it clear that entitlement to a relevant UK government benefit will not start until the day after payment of CDP has ended and will reflect the Scottish CDP legislation, which acts in a similar way. This will not only protect the public purse by avoiding double payment but help prevent the need for complicated overpayment calculations and recovery. Furthermore, it is also in the best interests of the claimant, who will have a clear expectation of which Government is responsible for paying their benefits at which point in their claim or award.

The instrument includes provisions on behalf of the Ministry of Defence to ensure that Armed Forces independence payment will similarly not overlap with CDP. Provisions have also been introduced to prevent overlapping entitlement when a claimant moves to Northern Ireland and is in receipt of the 13-week run- on payment from the Scottish Government.

Finally, we recognise that many DWP claimants will also be claimants of the Scottish Government’s devolved provisions. This instrument will make changes to UK government legislation to allow the Department for Work and Pensions to accept that a person over the age of 18 has appointee status if they have already been granted it by the Scottish Government. This removes unnecessary burdens on the claimant, the appointee and the department through effective and proportional collaboration on information shared and used by respective Governments. I commend this instrument to the Committee and beg to move.

--- Later in debate ---

[Baroness Stedman-Scott (Con)]

I thank all noble Lords for their contributions today. I shall deal with some of the points that noble Lords have raised.

In answer to the noble Lord, Lord Naseby, and to some degree the noble Lord, Lord Bruce, I would say that all five parties in the Scottish Parliament accepted the Smith commission recommendations on the devolution of social security. The two Governments are now working together to implement them, and this SI is part of that process. In Wales, social security is reserved by virtue of the Wales Act 2017, although the Welsh Government have the power to make payments to people in extreme financial hardship using the discretionary assistance fund. In Northern Ireland, social security is transferred to the Northern Ireland Executive. However, in line with the Northern Ireland Act 1998, the DWP and the Department for Communities in Northern Ireland work closely together with a view to maintaining parity between the two systems.

The Barnett formula is used by the Treasury to calculate the annual block grants for the Scottish and Welsh Governments and the Northern Ireland Executive. It calculates funding for devolved public services based on what the UK Government spend on those functions in England. If the devolved Administrations want to spend more on devolved services, they must find the funding from elsewhere in their budgets.

On the evaluation of implementation, which noble Lords have raised, that is a matter for the Scottish Government. The UK Government will, of course, be interested in the iterations of the reserved benefits, given the larger number of people in Scotland receiving benefits from both Governments.

In answer to the noble Lord, Lord Bruce, the DWP currently administers benefits on behalf of the Scottish Government where they are the same as other benefits. However, replacement benefits, such as CDP, will be entirely delivered by Social Security Scotland, which is part of the Scottish Government. We will, of course, follow with interest how the Scottish Government deliver their new benefit and we can, of course, learn from their experience where we both face similar challenges.

On cross-border moves from Scotland to England, the noble Baroness, Lady Wilcox, asks what will happen if someone moving from Scotland to England and Wales does not apply to the DWP in time for their claim to be processed before their CDP runs out, and whether they will incur a break in payment. If the claimant is late in making the claim following the move, there is a greater risk that there will be a break in payment. However, arrears will be paid back to either the date of the claim or to the date the run-on ceases, depending on the circumstances. If a claimant delays making an application and their CDP stops before their claim has been made, any new claim can be paid only from the date of that claim.

The DWP and the Scottish Government both have devolution programmes to ensure that all partners are ready in delivery and ready for the implementation. We hope that that working together will continue.

The noble Lord, Lord Bruce, asked about how many more SIs on Scotland are coming. It seems that there are three more statutory instruments on devolution of Scottish Social Security to the Scottish Parliament before the Summer Recess. Further instruments will follow as the Scottish Government make further progress on the replacement of benefits.

The UK Government are working collaboratively with the Scottish Government to ensure that the two systems of social security will operate effectively alongside each other and the required legislation that underpins them is delivered successfully for the people of Scotland and, where relevant, claimants in England, Wales and Northern Ireland. This order highlights the importance that the UK Government place on the effective functioning of devolution. I commend this order to the Committee.

Motion agreed.

Armed Forces: Transition to Civilian Life

Baroness Stedman-Scott Excerpts

Tuesday 15th June 2021 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Sherlock]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what assessment they have made of the support provided by the Department for Work and Pensions to members of the Armed Forces in their transition to civilian life.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Work and Pensions (Baroness Stedman-Scott) (Con)]

My Lords, the vast majority of veterans are able to make a successful transition to life outside the Armed Forces; 84% of veterans are employed within six months of discharge, and these rates compare very favourably with the wider population, where 76% are in employment. The DWP provides support to veterans in a number of ways, including through the early voluntary entry to the work and health programme, and support from its network of Armed Forces champions.

[Baroness Sherlock (Lab) [V]]

My Lords, in 2019 the Government committed up to £6 million to fund more than 100 Armed Forces champions. They are there to provide personnel, veterans and families with specialist support to find work and transition to civilian life, and they are a key part of the Government’s commitment to the Armed Forces covenant. The Minister has now told me in a Written Answer that they now aim to hire only 50 champions and have a record low of just 34 in post. So why have the Government abandoned this commitment to our Armed Forces, and how much of that £6 million has actually been spent?

--- Later in debate ---

[Baroness Stedman-Scott (Con)]

The department’s top priority during the pandemic has been to focus on processing claims and paying people quickly. As a result, the planned recruitment for the Armed Forces champion in April 2020 was paused. During that period, there was a lot of liaison with stakeholders and various interested parties and a new model was devised and got real support from all stakeholders. We now have, for the first time, middle-management lead roles and direct customer support for the 50 Armed Forces champions, and this combined support is well supported. In addition to these people, of course the veterans got the full service of all the work coaches in the DWP network.

[The Lord Bishop of St Albans [V]]

My Lords, in the UK it is estimated that former Armed Forces personnel are eight times more likely to develop gambling problems than civilians. They suffer from higher rates of mental health issues and alcohol problems, factors which may feed into the higher rate of problem gambling. Will Her Majesty’s Government commit to surveying the gambling habits of serving personnel so that we can better provide for our military as they transition to civilian life?

[Baroness Stedman-Scott (Con)]

The right reverend Prelate raises a serious issue that people are well aware of. I would like to offer a meeting with him just to get some more detail from him, and then I will of course take that back to the department.

[Baroness Fookes (Con)]

My Lords, I will not disguise my anger and frustration at the recent refusal of the Government to restore war widows’ pensions to those few ladies who lost it on remarriage. Can my noble friend use her considerable powers of persuasion to find a way forward other than by using the name “pension”, which I understand frightens the life out of the Treasury? Could the widows not receive some form of compensation, hardship payment or the like?

[Baroness Stedman-Scott (Con)]

To be asked not to frighten the Treasury is quite a challenge—I will think about that one for now. Of course, the Government recognise the unique commitment that service families make to our country and remain sympathetic to the circumstances of those who remarried and cohabited before 1 April. I understand my noble friend’s points, and I will do my best.

[Lord Ramsbotham (CB) [V]]

My Lords, can the Minister please tell the House whether the Department for Work and Pensions has carried out any assessment of the usefulness of Armed Forces employment to civilian employers?

[Baroness Stedman-Scott (Con)]

An important point is that when people leave the Armed Forces, they have really good skills that are very attractive to employers in both the public and private sectors, and work is done to make sure that all opportunities are made available to those leaving the service.

[Baroness Janke (LD) [V]]

Can the noble Baroness say what specific support is provided for families—particularly children—of members of our Armed Forces to enable their transition, given that many of them will have spent time in different schools and different locations and may find it difficult to transition after their families leave the services?

[Baroness Stedman-Scott (Con)]

The effect on children living in different parts of the country and the world, and the number of schools they have attended, is well known. It is for the MoD to carry out this activity in its resettlement programme. I will ask my friends in the Ministry of Defence to write to the noble Baroness with more detail.

[Lord Lancaster of Kimbolton (Con)]

My Lords, it was an enormous honour to serve as the Minister for Veterans, probably the most rewarding job in government. While that is the only ministerial job to have the word “veterans” in its title, it is important to remember that all Ministers have responsibility for veterans. One of the challenges they face is access to information, which is why we created the Veterans’ Gateway. Can my noble friend simply reassure me that her department engages with that portal?

[Baroness Stedman-Scott (Con)]

I am happy to confirm to my noble friend that the department engages with the portal. We put veterans and their families in touch with the organisations best placed to help them, and the portal, through the national provision tool, is an absolutely vital part of the service.

[Lord McCrea of Magherafelt and Cookstown (DUP)]

My Lords, I recognise the many challenges faced by the members of the Armed Forces in the transition to civilian life, whether it be need for housing or professional care because of physical or mental incapacity through conflict. Can the Minister assure me that all former members of the Armed Forces are equally provided for across the United Kingdom, including those in Northern Ireland?

[Baroness Stedman-Scott (Con)]

I am pleased to be able to respond to the noble Lord to say that the Armed Forces covenant legislation is specifically designed to cover equality of service. It covers health, education and housing, and the MoD has worked with closely with the devolved authorities in implementing that.

[Baroness D’Souza (CB)]

My Lords, the Government have a duty of care to look after those who have served and a moral responsibility to pick up the tab. That said, will the Minister say what combat-related trauma support is available to women veterans who are actively seeking employment?

[Baroness Stedman-Scott (Con)]

I would need to write to the noble Baroness about trauma support because I will need to get the information from the MoD. However, I can give comfort to her and to the whole House: women do very well when it comes to employment after their service. They have good specialist skills such as transport, logistics and medicine, and the support that the DWP gives takes account of individual circumstances and is individually tailored.

[Lord Sharpe of Epsom (Con)]

My Lords, Dr Hugh Milroy, the CEO of the exemplary military charity Veterans Aid, tells me that the current resettlement system is out of touch with the cost of living today and that he has seen this cause genuine hardship for people with otherwise good prospects. I was surprised to find that the individual resettlement training costs grant available to all leavers with six or more years’ service and all medical discharges is set at £534. Does my noble friend the Minister agree that it is time to modernise the system by providing access to an innovative financial empowerment model, perhaps like the student loan system?

[Baroness Stedman-Scott (Con)]

I am happy to tell my noble friend that while the grant is set at just over £500, the training that it can purchase can be worth thousands of pounds. The Career Transition Partnership contract-funded courses are prepaid by the MoD and it offers other courses as well. Other financial support schemes, such as the enhanced learning credits scheme, can provide up to £3,000. Further financial support of up to £175 per year can be made available through the standard learning credit scheme and the publicly funded further education/higher education scheme provides service leavers with all sorts of support for up to 10 years to a value of up to £9,000. If we need to repackage that, I will be happy to take it back to the department.

[Baroness Smith of Newnham (LD)]

My Lords, the integrated review envisages cuts to the regular forces of around 10,000. What work has the DWP done, alongside the MoD, to assess the possible implications for service personnel and their families who will be leaving the forces perhaps rather more unexpectedly than envisaged?

[Baroness Stedman-Scott (Con)]

The services offered by the DWP through the plan for jobs and other activities with the Department for Education on skills are wide-ranging, and I know that the Ministry of Defence and the DWP will work in partnership to provide the most relevant services to the people who the noble Baroness rightly says will need help.

[The Lord Speaker (Lord McFall of Alcluith)]

My Lords, the time allowed for this Question has elapsed. We now come to the fourth Oral Question in the name of the noble Baroness, Lady Randerson.

Child Poverty: Ethnicity

Baroness Stedman-Scott Excerpts

Thursday 27th May 2021 Grand Committee

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Work and Pensions (Baroness Stedman-Scott) (Con)]

My Lords, I thank the noble Lord, Lord Woolley, for securing this important debate and introducing it so eloquently and powerfully. I also thank those noble Lords who have contributed to today’s discussion of this important issue.

I share the concern that has been expressed that children from some ethnic minority backgrounds are more likely to be in low income than their peers. It is absolutely right that any Government are held to account for their record on tackling poverty.

Over the past year, our priority has of course been to help all families, regardless of their background, to withstand the financial hardship brought about by the pandemic. Such unprecedented circumstances have called for an unprecedented response. I believe that this Government are delivering this by spending more than £407 billion on support measures to mitigate the impact of the pandemic, including the furlough scheme and the self-employment income support scheme. This has helped to protect jobs and to keep businesses afloat and has helped families to get by. The noble Lord, Lord Woolley, issued us with a challenge: we can do something little or we can do something great. I believe that the Government are doing a good job in trying to support people in this incredibly difficult time.

That spending also includes the additional £7.4 billion injected into the welfare system further to support those most in need, raising our total spend on welfare support for people of working age to around £111 billion. The noble Baronesses, Lady Lister and Lady Sherlock, referred to the £20 uplift. I must tell them that it was always intended to be a temporary measure. As such, as far as I know, it will cease in September.

We have done other things to support families and children. We fully recognise the profound impact of this hugely challenging period on people’s lives. We have taken further substantial action to support the most vulnerable children and families, wherever they live and whatever their background, to ensure that they are able to access food and other essentials.

My noble friend Lord Farmer raised the important issue of family stability and the good work that family hubs are doing. The Government are working to expand these hubs and continue to invest in the reducing parental conflict programme. The hubs continue to grow at pace. There is a cross-government department team working on family hubs and RPC: I am a member of that group. Somebody pleaded with me to use my voice; it is loud and clear on these issues, and I would be very happy to meet any noble Lords to talk about hubs and the reducing parental conflict programme.

To strengthen the welfare safety net, in December 2020, my department introduced the Covid winter grant programme, which had an additional £229 million of local welfare funding and has enabled local authorities to provide targeted support to vulnerable households, keeping them warm and well fed over the winter, focusing particularly on disadvantaged children and families, whether that support is needed in term time or in holidays. Recognising that some restrictions on the economy are still in place, a further £40 million of funding has been allocated to the Covid local support grant fund.

The noble Lord, Lord Wooley, was very challenging in his speech, as other noble Lords have been, about educational attainment and free school meals and breakfast clubs. We have put in place extraordinary measures to ensure that disadvantaged children receive the support they need to learn, whether that is in home or in the classroom. In England, this has included spending an additional £500 million on food vouchers so that children had access to food when schools were closed during lockdown. This is in addition to the usual funding schools have continued to receive to provide free school meals for more than 1.6 million pupils from the lowest income families and universal free school meals for all children in reception, year 1 and year 2. As well as lunchtime meals, the Government also support breakfast clubs in more than 2,450 schools. The Department for Education has recently announced another £24 million to continue the successful breakfast club programme.

The noble Baroness, Lady Bakewell, talked about the summer holidays. Looking ahead to this summer, we recognise that many vulnerable families need additional support during the longer school holidays. Following three years of successful pilots, the Department for Education’s holiday activities and food programme has been expanded for 2021. The programme launched at Easter and will provide support during summer and Christmas this year at a cost of £220 million. This programme is available to disadvantaged children in every local authority. Wider support is available, including our healthy start scheme, and we are exploring any additional support that may be needed throughout the summer.

I now turn to some of the specific points made by noble Lords. The noble Lord, Lord Woolley, talked about unemployment rates for ethnic minorities. We have committed to level up skills and opportunities across the country for people of all backgrounds. Using data from the race disparity audit, updated annually since October 2017, and our own analysis, we are continuing to help those underrepresented in the labour market.

We were challenged in this debate by the noble Lord, Lord Woolley, and others about expanding free school meals. We think it is important that free school meal support is targeted at those who need it most. Free school meals are an integral part of our provision for families on low incomes and of our wider actions to promote social mobility.

On the help we are giving to ethnic minorities, particularly to get into the labour market, we have identified 20 target areas using our own research and data from the race disparity audit. Lessons learned are rolled out, where appropriate, across the country. Each area has a high ethnic minority population and a high gap between the ethnic minority and white employment rates. Together, they represent more than half of the national ethnic minority employment gap. We are also considering the recommendations of the independent Commission on Race and Ethnic Disparities.

Again, I am sorry to say to the noble Baroness, Lady Lister, that I have no information that the two-child policy is going to be changed. I know it will be disappointing to her, but the Government feel quite strongly that a benefit structure adjusting automatically to family size is unsustainable.

We have the same view on the benefit cap. The proportion of individuals capped remains low in comparison to the overall UC case load at around 3%. This is in spite of the significant action that DWP took early in the pandemic to protect those financially impacted, including the temporary uplift in the UC standard allowance and increases to local housing allowance rates. The most vulnerable, who are entitled to benefits for disability and caring, are obviously exempt from the cap.

The noble Baroness, Lady Walmsley, raised a point about free school meals for all primary school children. I am afraid I have no information that that is planned. On the other points the noble Baroness raised, I will write to her.

The noble Baroness, Lady Lister, raised the poverty strategy and cross-government working. Here I might raise a smile, I think. As we recover from the pandemic, departments will continue to work together to deliver a number of key cross-cutting outcomes linked to the 2020 spending review. These outcomes include addressing poverty through enabling progression into work and increasing financial resilience. DWP is leading this work in collaboration with other departments, including, in particular, HMT, DfE, MHCLG and Defra.

My noble friend Lord Moynihan raised the issue of a Cabinet Minister for children, which other noble Lords have raised. The Secretary of State in the Department for Education has responsibility for children and families and takes it very seriously. I will ask my noble friend Lady Berridge to write on behalf of her Secretary of State to say what is being done there.

The noble Baroness, Lady Chakrabarti, urged me to use my voice. I will always do that. I can confirm to her, and to the noble Baroness, Lady Bennett, that we will consider all the recommendations of the national food strategy and respond fully within six months of the publication of the next and final national food strategy report. I will come back to the noble Baroness in writing.

I thank the noble Baroness, Lady Uddin, a passionate campaigner, for her contribution. In my working life, trying to help people back to work, the business community at Canary Wharf has been outstanding in its support for its local communities.

The noble Baroness, Lady Bakewell, made a point about gluten-free products on prescription. I am very happy to write to the Department of Health. I make no promises, but I will write, and I will copy the noble Baroness in on the letter.

The noble Baroness, Lady Sherlock, talked about the impact of the pandemic on levels of poverty being clear and asked whether we will publish our evidence and act on it. Estimating the impact of Covid-19 on relative and absolute poverty requires estimates of income for all people in the UK, which are not yet available. We are wholly committed to supporting people on lower incomes. We spend an estimated £111 billion on welfare, including an additional £7.4 billion on Covid-related welfare policies.

I always finish these debates by apologising for not being able to answer every point, and I always promise that I will look at Hansard and write to noble Lords on any matters I have not dealt with. I hope noble Lords understand that this Government are absolutely committed to helping those who need help most—those in poverty—and my door is open at any time for noble Lords to make representations.

Kickstart Scheme

Baroness Stedman-Scott Excerpts

Thursday 29th April 2021 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Sherlock (Lab) [V]]

My Lords, I thank the Lord Speaker for his service, and I beg leave to ask the Question standing in my name on the Order Paper.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Work and Pensions (Baroness Stedman-Scott) (Con)]

I am very pleased to advise the House today that we have now approved 195,000 vacancies on the Kickstart scheme. During the pandemic and the lockdown, employers were very keen to become involved in the Kickstart programme and make opportunities available for young people, but they wanted to wait until we came out of lockdown, when their businesses could start to trade. I can say to the noble Baroness and the whole House that progress is being made day by day and the number of young people going into vacancies is accelerating fast.

[Baroness Sherlock (Lab) [V]]

My Lords, is it not the case that only 16,500 young people have actually started work? That is out of some 575,000 who are unemployed. Last June, Ministers said that Kickstart would create new jobs for a quarter of a million young people. Can the Minister tell the House two things? First, what is the new target date for getting 250,000 young people into jobs? Secondly, given that only 490 placements have happened in the whole north-east of England, what is the plan for making sure that poorer regions are not left behind?

[Baroness Stedman-Scott (Con)]

As I originally said, we have 195,000 vacancies and more are still coming in, so we are positive that we will create hundreds of thousands of jobs for Kickstarters. We are well aware of the difficulties associated with the north-east. We are doing a deep dive on Friday with departmental officials, and we are working at pace to secure adequate opportunities for the plan for jobs. I am confident that we will meet our target in the timeframe allocated for Kickstart.

[Baroness Drake (Lab) [V]]

Can I press the Minister on my noble friend’s question? When will the Government report what direct action they are taking now to ensure they deliver equity across the regions on Kickstart placements? Sentiment is fine, but could we have the evidence of what the Government are doing to ensure equity? Secondly, unemployment of young black people started high and is rising faster than that of their white counterparts. What measures are the Government taking now to stop potential bias and discrimination in the hiring process for Kickstart jobs?

--- Later in debate ---

[Baroness Stedman-Scott (Con)]

I can confirm to the noble Baroness that each region in the country has a regional director for Jobcentre Plus completely focused on ensuring that there are equitable vacancies across the country. The noble Baroness is absolutely right to raise the issue of the BAME community and the need for us to work very hard to ensure that they are not left behind. We are encouraging organisations that work with BAME young people to take part in the Kickstart scheme, which can include acting as a gateway organisation for employers in their networks. We understand the challenges faced, and our work coaches are working hard to use the £90 million investment that we are putting in to address the disparities in youth unemployment, especially in this group.

[Baroness Stuart of Edgbaston (Non-Afl) [V]]

My Lords, I encourage the Minister also to consider the 2021 cohort of undergraduates and combine their need for employment with the needs of SMEs. Would it not make sense to create paid internships of three to six months whereby those undergraduates work in SMEs and thus kickstart not just their employability but the SME sector?

[Baroness Stedman-Scott (Con)]

The noble Baroness suggests a very good idea. Let me be clear: Kickstart is there to help young people who are disadvantaged and at risk of being permanently excluded from the labour market. I will take the option of undergraduates and SMEs back to the department and write to the noble Baroness. At the moment, there are no plans to change the eligibility for Kickstart.

[Baroness Eaton (Con) [V]]

My Lords, vulnerable people display vulnerabilities in many different ways. What measures are in place to ensure that vulnerable people can participate in the Kickstart scheme?

[Baroness Stedman-Scott (Con)]

We are encouraging employers to make opportunities available for vulnerable young people. Our Jobcentre Plus work coaches are identifying those people and working with them through a support package to make sure that they are not excluded in any way from taking part in the Kickstart scheme. Of course, we have our wonderful stakeholders and partners working particularly closely with these young people, who we are working with too.

[Lord Storey (LD) [V]]

My Lords, the Minister will be aware that many unemployed young people have a particular career interest and the financial support from their family to take on an unpaid internship. This is not an option for young people from deprived communities. Have the Government considered making the Kickstart programme available to these people so they too can take an internship in their chosen career?

[Baroness Stedman-Scott (Con)]

I think I answered that question when I answered the question of the noble Baroness, Lady Stuart. As I said, I will take that back to the department, write to the noble Lord and the noble Baroness and place a copy in the Library. However, as it stands, there are no plans to change the eligibility.

[Lord Farmer (Con)]

My Lords, what are the Government doing to ensure that the Kickstart scheme meets the needs of understaffed sectors of the employment market which are well suited to this age cohort and therefore more likely to sustain young people’s employment once subsidies end? I am thinking particularly of both large and small hospitality employers, which are struggling to fill vacancies as pubs and restaurants gear up to reopen fully.

[Baroness Stedman-Scott (Con)]

We are working closely with a whole range of employers in sectors impacted by the pandemic, particularly the hospitality sector, where we have enabled employers to create Kickstart opportunities sooner than the economy might otherwise allow. We have seen a strong response from the hospitality sector, with involvement from the national academy of food and drink and major employers like Greene King offering Kickstart jobs across the country, and we will continue to do so.

[Lord Bilimoria (CB) [V]]

My Lords, over half the people who have lost their jobs since March 2020 are young people. Kickstart is a fantastic scheme to help young people and businesses prevent the scarring of long-term unemployment. Will the Minister acknowledge that although, as she said, almost 200,000 placements have been approved by the scheme, only 16,500 have actually started—as the noble Baroness, Lady Sherlock, said—because of delays caused by the third lockdown and bureaucracy? The CBI, of which I am president, is calling for a six-month extension to the excellent Kickstart scheme until June 2022 to allow many young people to participate. Will the Government please agree to this?

[Baroness Stedman-Scott (Con)]

I understand the noble Lord’s question exactly. I am advised at the moment that there are no plans to extend the scheme, but we never know what might happen in the future. I pay tribute and thanks to the noble Lord in his capacity as chairman of the CBI, which has been an outstanding supporter and helper in the establishment of Kickstart.

[Baroness Donaghy (Lab) [V]]

Even given the difficulties created by the Covid pandemic, a 6% success rate is an abject failure. The Minister knows more than most the importance of work experience for a young person. Calling on 195,000 approved vacancies does not add up to actual jobs. If the target of 250,000 placements is not reached by December 2021, will the scheme be extended, or will the cash be grabbed by the Chancellor when he announces a new age of austerity?

[Baroness Stedman-Scott (Con)]

I do understand the concern about the 16,500 placements but, as I tried to explain, during the lockdown employers have shown great commitment to involvement in Kickstart but wanted to do it when the lockdown ended. I say again to the noble Baroness that we are seeing day by day vast increases in the number of vacancies being filled, and we are confident that we are going to create hundreds of thousands of vacancies and place young people in them. On moving money around, I dare not get involved in that; I think I would be going a bit too far if I confirmed anything in that regard.

[The Lord Speaker (Lord Fowler)]

My Lords, the time allowed for this Question has elapsed, and it brings Question Time to an end.

Unemployment: Over-50s

Baroness Stedman-Scott Excerpts

Tuesday 9th March 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord Haskel]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what steps they are taking to address the number of unemployed people over the age of 50.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Work and Pensions (Baroness Stedman-Scott) (Con)]

Our Plan for Jobs package provides funding to ensure that more people, including those aged 50 and over, get tailored Jobcentre Plus support to help them find work and build the skills that they need to get into work. As part of the Jobcentre Plus offer for over-50s, we are also providing dedicated support through 50-plus champions and mentoring circles to ensure that they fully benefit from the Plan for Jobs package and existing Jobcentre Plus support.

[Lord Haskel (Lab) [V]]

My Lords, the Government’s schemes, though, just do not seem to work. One scheme had the worst outturn, with just one in five being successful. In the past 12 months, the number of unemployed over-50s has gone up by a third, which is significantly more than any other group. This is partly because many employers prefer more technologically skilled younger people, who may come cheaper, perhaps with government money. This over-50s group requires specific, updated back-to-work support using their knowledge and experience. Will the Government be much more specific and give them that support?

[Baroness Stedman-Scott (Con)]

I would like to speak to the noble Lord outside the Chamber about the statistics that he raises because they do not resonate with those that I have. I can only say to him that the support that over-50s are getting through the Jobcentre Plus network builds on their existing skills base and is doing everything possible to get them back into the labour market.

[Baroness Pitkeathley (Lab) [V]]

I am sure that the Minister will know that one in five people over 50 provide unpaid care to a family member or friend. These caring responsibilities have a significant impact on their ability to work, leaving many outside the labour market. Of course, the pandemic has exacerbated this situation. What support can the Government provide to help older carers return to work and juggle work with their caring responsibilities, on which social care so much depends?

[Baroness Stedman-Scott (Con)]

To help and support carers to remain in work or return to work, we have been working with employer organisations, the CIPD, the British Chambers of Commerce and LEPs to host a series of webinars, with content delivered by the business champion for older workers. We absolutely agree with the noble Baroness about the role that carers play. We want flexibility from employers, flexibility in hours and flexibility in the roles that those people can provide.

[Baroness Janke (LD) [V]]

My Lords, older workers have valuable experience and life skills but are twice as likely as younger workers to be out of work for 12 months or more. What opportunities for financially supported training and education will the Government make available to this age group to enable them to develop their skills and, if necessary, change their career paths?

[Baroness Stedman-Scott (Con)]

Again, the noble Baroness makes an important point about the value that older workers can add to the workforce. The UK Government are investing £2.5 billion in the national skills fund to aid the lifetime skills guarantee. This is a great opportunity for older workers.

[Baroness Redfern (Con) [V]]

My Lords, the fact is that many people need to work for longer, but workers aged 50-plus still face barriers to accessing work and training. What extra government support is there particularly for smaller and medium-sized businesses to help them to offer employment to older people who are disabled?

[Baroness Stedman-Scott (Con)]

I am pleased to report that the Government have appointed Andy Briggs as business champion for older workers to spearhead the Government’s work to support employers to retain, retrain and recruit older workers, including the disabled.

[Baroness Meacher (CB) [V]]

My Lords, as the Minister well knows, the over-50s who have lost their jobs during the pandemic are at a serious risk of long-term unemployment, at huge cost to themselves but also to the taxpayer. Have the Government considered creating an over-50s Kickstart scheme—it is an excellent scheme for young people—encouraging employers to create jobs but also providing retraining for older workers who might well benefit from it?

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[Baroness Stedman-Scott (Con)]

That is a great idea. I will take it back to the department because I can promise the whole House that our Secretary of State and our team are looking at innovative ways to get people back into work.

[Baroness Sherlock (Lab) [V]]

My Lords, to build on that, the pandemic has certainly caused job losses for older people and led to people retiring early, or indeed delaying retirement. That hurts those individuals and their families, but it also affects the labour supply and the pensions landscape. It is a big public policy issue. Have Ministers considered developing a focused strategy, with ring-fenced funding and targeted interventions, and perhaps adapted conditionality for older workers?

[Baroness Stedman-Scott (Con)]

In respect of conditionality and targeted support, the work that we are doing through the work coaches is tailored and individual. We are using the conditionality rules as compassionately and sensibly as we can.

[Lord Taylor of Goss Moor (LD) [V]]

My Lords, as has been indicated, over-50s are twice as likely as the rest of the population to stay unemployed, once unemployed, for more than two years. The truth is, of course, that many never get back into work, partly because there is a sense that taking on an older employee is less valuable, despite their skills and experience. Given that during the pandemic we have seen a much greater increase proportionately in unemployment among the over-50s, there is clearly a risk that many of these people will never return to work. I support the suggestion of the equivalent to the Kickstart programme for over-50s, because we know that the longer you are unemployed at over 50, the more likely it is that you will never return to work.

[Baroness Stedman-Scott (Con)]

As I said, I thought that the idea of the noble Baroness, Lady Meacher, was excellent. I can only concur with the noble Lord that we should explore that.

[Lord Dodds of Duncairn (DUP) [V]]

My Lords, the pandemic has been particularly difficult for older people in terms of job losses. Even in normal times, far too many are out of work well before retirement age. We must do more to acknowledge the contribution to society and the economy of people of all ages, so what more can the Government do to cut out age bias in recruitment and training and to get companies to recognise the importance of age inclusivity?

[Baroness Stedman-Scott (Con)]

This will be part of the important work of the over-50s champion appointed by the Government, Andy Briggs. I reiterate that older workers have skills and experience that employers are looking for. It is up to us to work with employers to encourage and influence them to secure vacancies for older workers.

[Baroness Fookes (Con)]

My Lords, I spoke only this morning to four distinguished horticulturalists who said that they would warmly welcome people aged over 50 coming into that sector. They, too, mentioned a modified Kickstart scheme, so may I add to the pleas already made?

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[Baroness Stedman-Scott (Con)]

Kickstart for older workers: message received and understood. The UK Government are investing £2.5 billion in the national skills fund to aid the lifetime guarantee, we have a free online skills toolkit and the Chancellor’s announcement in July of his Plan for Jobs included an extra £17 million to support 32,000 more vocational training places.

[Baroness Wheatcroft (CB) [V]]

My Lords, a snapshot by the Institute for Fiscal Studies last year showed that one in four people on furlough were over 50. My concern is that many of those people will not go back into employment again—as we have heard, over-50s are harder to employ. Could we not profitably use the time when people are on furlough to retrain them for the jobs that will be available when we come out of the pandemic properly?

[Baroness Stedman-Scott (Con)]

I am pleased to be able to confirm to the House that, where an employee is on furlough, they can take part in training, volunteer for another employer or organisation or work for another employer if contractually allowed.

[Lord Young of Norwood Green (Lab) [V]]

My Lords, what efforts are the job coaches and service centres making to assess the current skills of over-50s and to ensure the necessary retraining to enable re-employment? I hope that the House will recognise the enormous efforts being made by job coaches and service centre staff. The system might need some improvement, so the Kickstart idea is a good example.

[Baroness Stedman-Scott (Con)]

I think that I have already covered the issue of reskilling and training. The key to getting people back to work is to have the work coach make an assessment and build an action plan that gets people back to work, along with the efforts that we are making to influence employers. I am grateful to the noble Lord, as will be the whole DWP staff, for his endorsement of their excellent and committed work.

[The Senior Deputy Speaker (Lord McFall of Alcluith)]

My Lords, all supplementary questions have been asked and we now move to the next Question.