Childcare Payments Bill

Baroness Ritchie of Downpatrick Excerpts

Monday 17th November 2014 Commons Chamber

[Priti Patel]

I re-emphasise a point I have made consistently throughout the passage of the Bill: the Government’s overall system of child care remains focused on those who are on lower incomes. We are concentrating on supporting families getting into work and ensuring, as we have touched on in previous debates, not only that work pays, but that child care support remains focused on those on lower incomes.

Living standards—the cash in people’s pockets and what they can buy with it—are perhaps the biggest issue facing British families. The tough decisions we have taken as a Government have a very clear end in mind, which is to help create prosperity and boost living standards. Alongside that, we want to make sure that the Government have the right measures to support working families and households and to ensure that work pays.

Since coming to power, this Government have taken decisive action to ease the pressure on households and families. We are providing free school meals for all infant school pupils in reception year and in years 1 and 2. We have increased the personal allowance to £10,000 and in April 2015 it will increase to £10,500. During the course of this Parliament, we have cut the income tax of the typical taxpayer by £805, taking more than 3.2 million individuals out of income tax by 2015-16 and boosting the take-home pay of 25 million people.

Additional measures on living standards include freezing council tax in real terms and cutting the cost of driving by freezing fuel duty until the end of this Parliament, saving a typical motorist £680. We recently announced that the cost of driving licences will also be cut. Ultimately, however, as every family knows, the best way to raise living standards is by being in work, and we are pulling out all the stops to help those who want to work get into work by making work pay and introducing this Bill, which provides important financial measures to support child care.

I thank all Members for the opportunity to debate all the issues associated with child poverty as the Bill has passed through the House. Child poverty is an extremely important issue and this Government are fully committed to the goal of ending child poverty in the UK by the end of 2020.

[Ms Margaret Ritchie (South Down) (SDLP)]

As my hon. Friend the Member for Foyle (Mark Durkan) said on Report, the Northern Ireland Assembly has already debated the legislative consent motion, which will enable enactment of the legislation in Northern Ireland. Does the Minister accept that there are fewer opportunities to access child care in Northern Ireland and fewer job opportunities? Will she consider allowing the other place to debate the extension of the child care voucher scheme so that it can remain in place while the measures are being implemented and both the scheme and the Bill can run concurrently?

[Priti Patel]

I will come on to Northern Ireland in a moment, because I want to finish addressing child poverty. Our child poverty strategy 2014-17, which was published in June, outlines our plans to tackle the root causes of child poverty, including parents being out of work, low earnings and educational failure. That approach reflects the reality of child poverty today and, importantly, reflects our determination to achieve lasting change to protect the poorest in our society.

The evidence is clear that work remains the best route out of poverty, and children are three times as likely to be in poverty if they live in a workless family. That is why we are taking decisive action to make work pay and reform the welfare system. We have touched on universal credit, the child care support we are providing and increasing the national minimum wage.

This is a complex, multifaceted problem, and it would be wrong to suggest that there is a silver bullet. We have made good progress, but there is more to do in tackling child poverty. The Bill will support this Government’s efforts to tackle the root causes of one of our greatest social ills.

I am grateful to all those who have participated in the debates on the Bill. I welcome the support from both sides of the House for this important new scheme, which marks such an improvement on the current support available to parents. I am particularly delighted that the Northern Ireland Assembly recently voted in favour of a legislative consent motion to enable the scheme to be available to families in Northern Ireland in the same way as it will be to families elsewhere in the UK. That was entirely a matter for the Assembly, which has given the scheme a positive vote of confidence.

I understand that the Offices of the First Minister and of the Deputy First Minister will consider the impact of the scheme and its interaction with other initiatives in the context of wider work on the development of their own child care strategy, so it would be inappropriate for me to make further comment on those devolved matters. Obviously, that is work in progress.

During all stages of the Bill, we have consulted widely on the design of the scheme over the past year. We have listened to feedback from parents, employers, the child care industry and all stakeholders.

Following those discussions, we are already making several changes. We are rolling the scheme out to families more quickly. Within a year of its introduction, all families will be able to apply for support, which is significantly faster than the previously announced timetable for the roll-out, of seven years. There is a more generous cap so that families can receive up to £2,000 of Government support per child. We are making the scheme available throughout periods of paid and unpaid parental leave, and we are making changes to the minimum income level to support those in self-employment. We are extending to 14 days the time during which parents can access the scheme before starting work. I have committed to looking at the cap with reference to the costs of caring for disabled children.

The scheme will not only deliver valued support to hard-working families, but it will do so in a way that works for parents. It will be a smooth, simple and secure scheme. From the outset, it has been designed to have parents at its heart. Rather than requiring parents to report changes of circumstances in real time, the scheme will be based on quarterly entitlement periods. That will give parents the certainty that they will continue to be eligible for support for three months at a time, regardless of any unexpected changes in their circumstances. For parents to reconfirm for the next quarter will simply take a few clicks through the system that we are designing and setting up. Those are just some of the ways in which we have engaged with stakeholders and, importantly, learned lessons from the experience of tax credits. Our ambition is for the new scheme to represent a real step change in user experience.

The scheme will be a vast improvement on the current employer-supported child care scheme, which provides support to a limited number of employees. As well as being available much more widely, it will be better targeted, make payments on a fairer basis—on the number of children, rather than the number of adults—and will be much more efficient. That is why we will close the current scheme to new entrants when the scheme is introduced, although those who already receive support under it can stay in it, if they so choose, for as long as they wish.

As a result of the Bill, more working families than ever will be eligible for Government support with their child care costs. Our proposals have been welcomed by families and child care providers around the country. The Bill represents an important part of the Government’s strategy to get people into work, and I commend it to the House.

[Catherine McKinnell]

Any new investment in child care—particularly support for struggling families up and down the country who are battling to juggle their work and family lives—is clearly welcome. The Bill is therefore important, but it is long overdue for thousands of parents.

Fundamentally, we remain concerned that the Bill will simply not address the situation in which too many parents have been left. The evidence is now overwhelming. The cumulative changes to tax and benefits over the Government’s time in office have hit families hardest, as is clearly shown by new research published today. From our analysis of official statistics, we know that some families in which both parents are in work will be £2,000 a year worse off on average by the next election as a direct result of the Government’s tax and benefits choices. Researchers from the London School of Economics and the university of Essex have released findings showing that the clear losers under the Government are lone-parent families, large families and children.

This summer, the Prime Minister announced that all Government policies have to pass a families test. It is interesting that that is his aspiration only now, because it is abundantly clear that the Government have completely failed the families test to date. We share the widely expressed concern that the Bill will not go anywhere like far enough to make up the shortfall that families face, partly because of the tax and benefits changes, but also because of soaring child care costs.

Aside from that central issue, we have several other concerns. We are worried that parents will be left exposed to inflated child care prices, as my hon. Friend the Member for Wirral South (Alison McGovern) clearly set out in her speech on new clause 2. The Government have only one chance to get the hugely important IT infrastructure right, but crucially there is huge concern that parents might face a nightmare of complexity and confusion if the Government fail to provide adequate support and information to help them to make informed choices and to navigate between the schemes for universal credit and for the top-up payments.

Welcome though the support is, for far too many parents it will be far too little, far too late. I hope that the Minister has taken on board the concerns we raised throughout the proceedings in Committee and on Report, whether on some of the more technical aspects of the Bill’s operation or on the more fundamental issues.

[Ms Ritchie]

My hon. Friend is making some compelling points. Is she aware of research by the Resolution Foundation that found that 80% of the families who will benefit from the top-up payments available through the tax-free child care scheme are in the top 40% of the income distribution scale, and that the remaining 20% will go to families in the middle of it? How will the scheme help those on low incomes, lone parents and those with large families?

[Catherine McKinnell]

My hon. Friend has herself made the point very powerfully. I was concerned when the Minister spoke at length about child poverty because the Bill will do very little to deal with such issues, and we know that such figures will only increase. Levels of child poverty have increased significantly under this Government, as the facts and evidence prove.

Although we should focus on what the Bill will achieve—it will provide support in meeting demand for some payments for child care—my hon. Friend clearly sets out which parents will benefit most from the support. However, even those parents are concerned that the scheme might unduly complicate their lives. It might be burdensome for parents to navigate it, particularly those at the lower end of the income scale who have to navigate between a reduction in universal credit support and a movement into the top-up payments scheme, where potentially disastrous child care support pitfalls await them. We discussed that at length in Committee and we have put our concerns on the record. Other Opposition Members and I very much hope that the Minister has taken all such concerns on board and can deliver on the reassurances that she has given.

Let me take this last opportunity to urge the Government to recognise the value to parents not only of this support with child care costs, but of the extension of the free entitlement to three and four-year-olds. Quite simply, that would ensure that working parents are better off. It would help more parents to get back into work or to work more hours, and it would help to bring home more pay for the hours they work. We know that so many parents are desperate for such support. It would be simple and effective, and it would not place any more burdens on parents than those they already face. It would not add any more complexity to a child care market that is already hugely complicated.

Parents have struggled for four years under this Government with a child care crunch of rising prices alongside stagnant wages. Although we will support the Bill tonight, I urge the Minister to ensure that she, her officials and her partners who deliver the scheme fulfil the promises that have been made during its passage in Committee so that parents can receive this much-needed support.

I look forward to the arrival, in 2015, of a Labour Government who will ensure that parents receive not only the support provided in the Bill, but an additional 10 hours of free child care for three and four-year-olds. That will deal with many of the supply-side and price inflation concerns, and it will also provide child care support for the parents who will not benefit at all from the scheme.

Oral Answers to Questions

Baroness Ritchie of Downpatrick Excerpts

Tuesday 4th November 2014 Commons Chamber

[Danny Alexander]

I agree with my hon. Friend that the pensions reforms are a great liberalisation of the pensions system. We will give people, rightly, the opportunity to make use of the money that they have saved for their retirement as and when they choose. The guidance guarantee is enormously important. We have been working closely with organisations such as Citizens Advice to make sure that people have access to the guidance in the way that my hon. Friend has set out, and we need to deliver on that.

[Ms Margaret Ritchie (South Down) (SDLP)]

Has the Chief Secretary to the Treasury factored into his fiscal consolidation arithmetic the extra £1.7 billion contribution demanded by the EU? Does he accept that that payment is properly due under the formula agreed by the UK Government? When will it be paid, contrary to the answer given by the Chancellor?

[Danny Alexander]

The Office for Budget Responsibility takes into account forecasts for EU payments in its own forecasts. It did so at the time of the Budget and will do so again at the time of the autumn statement. A demand of this size in this manner is simply not acceptable, and we are absolutely right to do everything that we can to deal with the issue. That is what we in the coalition will ensure happens.

Oral Answers to Questions

Baroness Ritchie of Downpatrick Excerpts

Tuesday 2nd September 2014 Commons Chamber

[Mr Gauke]

My hon. Friend makes an excellent point and that is one important example of the 2,000 infrastructure projects delivered by the Government.

[Ms Margaret Ritchie (South Down) (SDLP)]

The removal of the aggregates levy credit scheme in Northern Ireland has severely hit the construction industry. I was pleased to hear that the European Commission had ruled that the scheme was legal and will not be seeking back payments. What will the Minister do to reinstate the levy to help local businesses grow and create employment?

[Mr Gauke]

The hon. Lady raises an important point and I hope that we can say more about the steps that we can take to help businesses in Northern Ireland in particular that have been affected by this issue.

Childcare Payments Bill

Baroness Ritchie of Downpatrick Excerpts

Monday 14th July 2014 Commons Chamber

[Nicky Morgan]

I entirely agree that families need support now. I have been setting out exactly what we have done in extending to 15 hours a week the free child care available for all three and four-year-olds, as well as for disadvantaged two-year-olds. On working tax credit, let me point out that the Government are spending £1.1 billion on the child care element of tax credits each year, so many families are still, rightly, receiving a huge amount of support through the tax credit system. We are proposing an enhancement of the child care offer that we already have.

We are taking action to drive up the supply of high-quality child care provision by legislating for childminder agencies, encouraging primary schools to open for longer, and reducing bureaucracy and red tape for providers—all steps that should help to drive supply up and costs down.

The Bill represents a further step towards helping hard-working families. We are committed to launching the scheme next autumn and rolling it out to all eligible families with children under 12 within the first year of its operation.

[Ms Margaret Ritchie (South Down) (SDLP)]

There is a concern that while single parents can access the new system, families with one parent in work and one not in work would not be entitled to anything. What can be done to assist people in such circumstances? From a Northern Ireland perspective, I know that there will be a legislative consent motion to deal with this legislation, but what advice can the Minister give now, in advance of such an LCM and in advance of the Bill’s implementation?

[Nicky Morgan]

I thank the hon. Lady for making that point, which is certainly of interest to everybody concerned with the issue of child care and who should look after children. I want to be very clear that this is about a choice, for those families who can afford it, in that they can decide that one parent will not be working, at least for a certain period. Of course, however, some families do not have that choice, with both parents needing to work, and there are lone parents who will need to work. For families where one parent is not working, we have introduced the married couples tax allowance, which has been legislated for in the Finance Bill, and those families will be receiving a tax benefit of just over £200 a year. This proposal is very much about enabling parents to play a full part in the labour market. That is why we have brought this Bill forward at this time.

[Ms Ritchie]

I am looking at this issue in a Northern Ireland context, and I am sure that there are many regions in Britain with similar circumstances. What happens if the other partner cannot access full-time or even part-time occupations, which is a reality for many families throughout the UK?

[Nicky Morgan]

Employment levels have gone up substantially under this Government. More people are getting jobs and more hours. As I say, the Bill is about a choice. With more people securing employment, this is about enabling families to make a choice if both parents need to or want to work, or, in the case of lone-parent families, providing support that is more generous than the current employer-supported child care voucher scheme.

The scheme, which launches next autumn, is to be rolled out to all those eligible families with children under 12 within the first year of its operation. The real triumph of the scheme is that it will make hundreds of thousands of parents who are currently excluded from support eligible for it.

The scheme has been designed so that support is available to the self-employed, who play a crucial role in our economy but are currently excluded, and so that it suits the needs of part-time workers, who are very often parents staggering their way back into full-time work, and those parents who are temporarily absent from the workplace—for example, during statutory parental leave. It is also designed to support those couples where one member is in work and the other is in receipt of carer’s allowance or employment and support allowance, by making them eligible for the new scheme.

--- Later in debate ---

[Catherine McKinnell]

The hon. Gentleman seems to have gone off the subject of child poverty, which is what we were dealing with. Going back to childminders, there was some movement in respect of the database of those registered when the Ofsted registration system came into place. If he is suggesting that he does not support Ofsted registration, I would be interested to hear more of his views.

[Ms Ritchie]

My hon. Friend talks compellingly about properly funded child care and the growing levels of child poverty, and she is characterising the position well. In that regard and in view of the volatility in the labour market, the slight economic upturn and the number of temporary or freelance-type workers, could she explain how those people will be impacted by the Bill’s provisions? Will they find themselves in a more difficult position?

[Catherine McKinnell]

I thank my hon. Friend for that intervention, which brings us back to the issue of child poverty and the importance of child care in supporting families and particularly children in getting out of that situation. She raises an important point, and I shall be coming on to ask some questions about the Bill’s implementation in that regard. Contrary to the impression given by the Minister, there is still a lack of clarity about who will and will not benefit from the changes. I shall reflect only momentarily, Madam Deputy Speaker, on the wider point that my hon. Friend raises. Our very flexible labour market can make it difficult for many parents to manage their child care arrangements. We know that many women, for example, are subject to zero-hours contracts, which can make it very difficult to plan for child care and the costs and availability of child care, when they might not know what hours they will be working from one week to the next. I hope that the Minister will take all those issues into account, particularly in respect of supporting families, which could be dependent on the interaction between the implementation of this policy and universal credit.

Oral Answers to Questions

Baroness Ritchie of Downpatrick Excerpts

Tuesday 24th June 2014 Commons Chamber

[Mr Osborne]

We had a fantastic meeting with McDonald’s employees, at which my hon. Friend was present, and it was heartening to hear about their confidence in their economic future. It is remarkable that we have had an hour of Treasury questions, during which we have discussed youth unemployment, and there were Department for Work and Pensions questions yesterday, but not a single Labour MP has mentioned the welfare plan that their leader published last week. That shows why the Labour economic policy lacks credibility even with Labour MPs and why the Labour leadership is in crisis.

[Ms Margaret Ritchie (South Down) (SDLP)]

Unemployment is bringing despair to a generation of young people in Northern Ireland, where nearly one in four young people are unemployed and have to seek their prospects elsewhere. Has the Chancellor had any discussions with the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland? If so, what plans are in place to address this particular issue, as youth unemployment poses a risk to peace and the political process?

[Mr Osborne]

I certainly have regular discussions with the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland, who is very focused on Northern Ireland’s economic development. Of course, I also meet the Northern Ireland Executive. We have plans to increase investment through the enterprise zone, and I commend the work of people across Northern Ireland to bring new businesses to Northern Ireland. We have more work to do on fixing the banking system in Northern Ireland, which remains impaired by what happened a couple of years ago, but I assure the hon. Lady that we will work together to deliver an economic recovery of real strength in Northern Ireland.

The Economy and Living Standards

Baroness Ritchie of Downpatrick Excerpts

Thursday 12th June 2014 Commons Chamber

[Ms Margaret Ritchie (South Down) (SDLP)]

This Queen’s Speech comes at a time when the public’s faith in politicians, here in Britain and in Northern Ireland, is nearing rock bottom, and many of the reasons for that lead directly back to the subject of today’s debate and today’s amendment, which I support—everyday living standards. The economy, accompanied by austerity measures, has meant less money in people’s pockets.

It is not comfortable for people in Northern Ireland to hear the Tory-led Government crow in this House about the positive state of the economy and claim that there has been a miraculous recovery, because that is not what people are experiencing and it is far removed from the everyday reality for most families. People feel that no matter how hard they work, their lot will not get any better, and a large proportion of them remain trapped in low-wage temporary contracts that offer no security and little hope, while those who cannot find work are repeatedly vilified.

The rising levels of inequality—highlighted recently by the Governor of the Bank of England, no less—and an economy in which pay freezes are common and wages fall far below inflation, are hurting people right across Northern Ireland. Low and stagnant pay rates are endemic, with 26% of employees in Northern Ireland being paid below the living wage level. That percentage is higher than for any region in England, Scotland or Wales.

Just last week, the Northern Ireland Council for Voluntary Action held a conference specifically on the problem of in-work poverty, at which it was revealed that working households now make up a majority—some 52%—of those in poverty. We are told by the Government not to worry, because they are “rebalancing the economy” and boosting the private sector. Any such boost to the private sector would be welcome, but as it stands Northern Ireland has the lowest private sector wage level of any region within the UK. We must ask not only what private sector development there is but what kind it is. It must provide sustainable, stable and fairly paid jobs.

That is all compounded by the high bills that people continue to face for food, electricity and fuel. In Northern Ireland, we pay even more for our energy than people in other UK regions. There have been decreases in the cost of oil on the global market, but people do not see that reflected in their bills. They see prices go up at the drop of a hat but never seem to fall, an issue that just this week Ofgem has asked energy companies to explain.

In my party, we are in no doubt that the current cost of living crisis is hitting the majority of families right across Northern Ireland, and we ask the Government at this late stage to ensure that that situation is rectified in the last year of this Tory-led coalition. If it is not, more people will be totally placed in peril, and at great financial disadvantage.

Finance (No. 2) Bill

Baroness Ritchie of Downpatrick Excerpts

Tuesday 1st April 2014 Commons Chamber

[Mr Jones]

I have great respect for the North East chamber of commerce, but it represents only a certain section of the business community—it does not represent all the business community—and I have never seen it disagree with any Budget, because, understandably, it likes to keep in with the Government of the day. The “Conservative” Member for Redcar is clear in giving an upbeat assessment of his own constituency, but it is not one that I recognise and neither do many Members representing north-east constituencies.

The hon. Member for Macclesfield said that the Government had a clear sense of direction and the hon. Member for Dover (Charlie Elphicke) said that they had a clear plan, unlike the Opposition. Let us look at this clear plan and sense of direction. The narrative goes as follows, and before any Government Member says differently, these things are not invented by the Opposition; they are what this Government did when they came to power. We should recall that in 2010 our economy was actually growing. Why did it go into recession? It did so because of what happened during their first few days, including the measures on investment, which my hon. Friend the Member for Nottingham East (Chris Leslie) mentioned. What the Government did sucked money straight out of the economy, so demand went down. We have had the longest recession and recovery in history. On the Conservative party’s and the Chancellor’s own figures—these are not my figures or the Labour party’s—by now we should have seen 8.4% growth, whereas we have actually seen 3.8% growth. We were supposed to have got rid of the deficit by 2015, but we are actually borrowing another £190 billion more than we were planning to borrow.

That is the Chancellor’s supposedly successful plan. People would think that he would apologise for that, but that is about as likely as the hon. Member for North East Somerset (Jacob Rees-Mogg) walking into the Chamber wearing a pair of Wrangler jeans. The fact is that the Chancellor’s plan has not been working, with the root cause—the Liberal Democrats have been going along with this—being an ideological Conservative party, which is not just about deficit reduction, but is actually about small state Conservatism. The headlines in last week’s Budget were clearly designed around things such as the pension measure, which I will discuss in a moment, but tucked away were another £1 billion of cuts, which the Chancellor made permanent for future years. So that is more pain for Departments across Whitehall and communities across our country.

The Budget headline was clearly on pensions, and much has been said about the freedoms that the measure is going to give. I do not usually agree with the hon. Member for Watford (Richard Harrington), but he made some interesting points in his contribution and I share his fear about people’s ability to get proper financial advice about what to do with their pensions. I take his point that we are dealing with relatively small sums in terms of pension pots of £20,000 to £25,000 and the costs of giving that advice would be astronomical. Are we, however, going to avoid the chaos we had—many of us remember seeing it in the 1990s—when the vultures descended on workplace pension schemes, advising people to take money out and put it into all sorts of products, which led to people making bad investment decisions?

The Minister of State, Department for Work and Pensions, the hon. Member for Thornbury and Yate (Steve Webb), who is responsible for pensions, says that he is not really bothered if someone wants to go and blow it all on a Lamborghini. Hon. Members might not be surprised to learn that I do not know a great deal about Lamborghinis, but I was a bit disappointed that he did not use an example of a British car, because it would have been a good idea to boost the British economy if he really wanted to give an example of an expensive car. Today, I looked up the cost of the cheapest Lamborghini and found that it is £300,000—that represents quite a big pension pot. The problem arising out of that policy is that the Government have not published the modelling on what the effects will be on the public purse. They need to do that because hidden issues need addressing. It is right to give people choice and freedoms, but the Chancellor did nothing at all to affect the charges, fees and so on that small pension pots are attracting, which can be substantial, not only at the time of buying an annuity, but over the lifetime of the pension. That would be a thing to do.

I have serious concerns. For example, if a pensioner uses their £300,000 plus to buy a Lamborghini—or possibly a Bentley, which would at least boost jobs in this country rather than in Italy—what do they do when they have no money left? The Pensions Minister says, “Well, that’s fine because it has all been taken care of by the new generous state pension.” He forgets that there are other things. There is no mention, for example, of care costs or of housing benefit. Those things need to be explained. It helps the Chancellor; he has a figure in the Red Book for the amount of tax he will raid out of pensions in the short term. There will clearly be a boost if people spend their money in the economy. I am not usually a great fan of the Association of British Insurers, but a serious issue has been raised about the future of the annuities market. Insurers do not just get in money and sit on it; they invest it, so we are talking about long- term investment that is being taken out of projects and businesses. To make a full assessment of the effects of this move, we need to understand the modelling of the scheme, and that has not been forthcoming. It will be interesting to see whether the Government will produce it.

The other issue is the increase to £15,000 a year in the allowance for individual savings accounts. Like the hon. Member for Macclesfield, I speak to my constituents. It is laughable to suggest that they may have £15,000 lying around to invest each year. I think that most people are in the same position. As my hon. Friend the Member for Glasgow North East (Mr Bain) said, people are not investing the money; they are actually spending it to live in their old age. Some 8 million people in this country have no savings whatever, and another 32% have less than £1,000 in savings, so the proposal will not help anyone. It may help some who have £15,000 to invest. Should we welcome that? Possibly, but the idea that it will help most of my constituents, or most of the constituents of my hon. Friends, is frankly not right. On Saturday, when I was out at an event in Chester-le-Street in my constituency, someone said to me, “Who’s got £15,000 lying around to invest in that type of savings plan each year?”

When the Chief Secretary to the Treasury opened the debate, my hon. Friend the Member for Nottingham East said that he was suffering from Stockholm syndrome, because he has actually become part of the Conservative party. Indeed, having heard the speech and the comments of the hon. Member for Redcar, I think that he also has a very bad dose of the syndrome.

I asked the Chief Secretary at what point in the previous Labour Government did his party say that spending was too high. I then gave him another chance and asked him whether the Liberal Democrats had called for reduced expenditure in any area—whether it be in the NHS or anywhere else. There was not one single area. At least the Conservatives could say that they ditched the pledge around 2008-09. The Liberal Democrats kept going right into the last general election. To hear the hon. Member for Redcar now, we might think that he had long been there calling for fiscal responsibility and less expenditure. The Liberal Democrats may trumpet it now, but that was not the case back then.

The Chief Secretary to the Treasury said that he was proud that the increase in allowances was straight from the last Liberal Democrat manifesto. It might have been, but the commitment on VAT—he was challenged about what happened to that—went the same way as the commitment on tuition fees. Remember the VAT bombshell? It was the first thing they did and the Liberal Democrats could not even claim at that stage that they had been affected by Stockholm syndrome, as they were only in the early days of captivity. And what did they do? They increased VAT. The hon. Member for Redcar says that the increase in VAT is a progressive form of taxation. I am sorry, but it is not. All the indications show that it is a regressive form of tax that hits some of the poorest in our communities, including in Redcar.

[Ms Margaret Ritchie (South Down) (SDLP)]

Is my hon. Friend aware that in Northern Ireland we have a particular problem with VAT and our land border with the Republic of Ireland? Our VAT is levied at 20% for tourism products and in the Republic of Ireland they have been able to retain it at 9% as of today. They also have air passenger duty at 0% from today.

[Mr Jones]

I agree. Some particular issues that appertain to Northern Ireland need to reflect the common land border with the Republic of Ireland.

As we have heard several times this afternoon, the Liberal Democrats are trumpeting as a great thing the fact that we have increased the personal allowance. The people who gain from it most are not the poor but those on middle incomes. MPs—quite apart from some Government Members who earn a lot more than their parliamentary salaries and who will gain even more—will gain more than the low paid.

Budget Resolutions and Economic Situation

Baroness Ritchie of Downpatrick Excerpts

Wednesday 19th March 2014 Commons Chamber

[Ms Margaret Ritchie (South Down) (SDLP)]

Following convention I shall refer to the hon. Member for Rochford and Southend East (James Duddridge) and say I agree with some of what he said, but I disagree with the vast proportion of his speech because it deals with the general principles of the Chancellor’s Budget.

From the Chancellor’s speech one would think that everything was rosy with the economy, but that is not the case. Many people, including those in Northern Ireland, are experiencing a very different reality—a reality that the current Government are almost completely out of touch with. Families are faced with rising food bills, sky-rocketing energy costs and stagnant wages. This is pushing more and more people into personal debt and we could be faced with a personal credit crisis as people over-extend credit cards and use payday loan companies to cover rising bills. The Governor of the Bank of England, Mark Carney, warned just yesterday that excessive borrowing was again posing a grave danger to the economy.

The employment figures announced today do not tell the full story, with a vast proportion of these new jobs coming from self-employment, temporary positions and zero-hours contracts. Many of these jobs are unstable and reflect not a true recovery, but a permanent low-wage economy. The figures are not geographically consistent. According to the Department of Enterprise, Trade and Investment in Northern Ireland, the local employment rate of 72% is the lowest of any region, and unemployment remains stubbornly high at 7.5%, compared with the UK average of 7.2%.

This is to say nothing of the tragedy of joblessness faced by our young people. Youth unemployment stands at nearly a million in the UK and more than 20,000 in Northern Ireland. About one in four of our young people cannot find a job, which will have a devastating impact on our economy and on their own lives in the coming years. Many have emigrated and many more face emigration. PricewaterhouseCoopers has said that this will cost the Northern Ireland economy £l billion by 2016. The Chancellor said nothing new today that makes me think he grasps the scale of the problem or is seeking the necessary remedies.

[Jim Shannon]

The Government have made concessions on the transferable tax allowance and on child care provision, but they have omitted to make any allowance for single-earner families where one of the parents goes to work and they forgo a second salary so that they can invest in the life of their children. There is provision for those at the higher level of taxation and provision for those at the lower level of taxation in respect of child care, but for those in between there is none. Does the hon. Lady agree that there is a shortfall in the Government’s child care provision for that section of the community?

[Ms Ritchie]

Yes, I agree. The Government need to make provision for that section of the population.

With respect to welfare, the supposed recovery is not a balanced one, as this Government continue to attack the most vulnerable and worst-off while giving handouts to those at the top. This political sleight of hand, blaming the poorest in society for the economic woes caused by the banking collapse, which has been repeated by the Chancellor in Budget after Budget, is deeply cynical and should not go unchallenged. The Government’s divisive rhetoric and continued draconian approach to welfare reform is of great concern. The current roll-out of universal credit is unravelling at an alarming rate, yet we are expected to accept even more of this misery for the worst-off in society. We have valid concerns about these measures in Northern Ireland, yet the British Government and the Department for Work and Pensions continue to try to force this issue through with threats and grandstanding.

Today, we hear of further attacks on the most vulnerable, with the introduction of a cap on welfare spending. I have great fears that this proposed cap will be used in an entirely pernicious manner, with little consideration given to need. As always with the Budget, the devil will be in the detail, and I will be fully pursuing this in subsequent weeks. In particular, concerns have been raised as to exactly what benefits will and will not be included in such a cap. I have since been informed that benefits such as disability living allowance, carer’s allowance and bereavement benefits—the very benefits that affect some of the most vulnerable in our society—will be impacted upon.

Although some elements of the Budget are to be welcomed, I have a concern in respect of one sector. The tourism sector is absolutely vital for our economy in Northern Ireland. The measure announced in relation to air passenger duty is extremely limited and will do nothing to lower the excessive rate of duty on flights within the UK and to Europe—such flights form the vast majority of those to and from Northern Ireland. We are still faced with the highest rates of APD and VAT on tourism products in the EU. Almost every EU state has some form of reduction in VAT for the tourism industry, and just last month I held a debate asking for the Treasury to consider introducing a similar scheme in the UK, which would provide an instant boost for the tourism industry and our tourism sector in Northern Ireland. It was notable during that debate that MPs from across the House supported my proposal, including many of the Chancellor’s own Back Benchers. The lack of movement on either of those issues was a glaring omission from today’s Budget.

We see Ireland as an island tourist market, but businesses in the north face a 20% rate of VAT, whereas the Irish Government have taken the sensible step of keeping their rate at 9% for tourism products. Regrettably, the only border for tourists moving between the south and the north is an economic one, brought about by the decisions of the UK Treasury. I ask the Chancellor again to take a hard look at a cut in the rate of VAT for tourism products, which would become budget-neutral after the first year, according to Professor Blake, who used the Treasury’s own economic model.

[Jim Shannon]

Will the hon. Lady give way?

[Ms Ritchie]

I am sorry, but I cannot give way again, as I am conscious that other Members wish to speak.

We are also seeking clarification on the aggregates credit levy scheme. I have had much correspondence with the Chancellor and Treasury Ministers on that issue, and I understand that we may be nearing a positive conclusion with the European Commission. So it would be helpful if we could get clarification on that issue, and on the whole area of the Barnett consequentials for flood defences, because I represent a coastal constituency whose coast has been undermined by the impact of climate change.

This was a political Budget from a political Chancellor, and it comes at the cost of the real economy. It will give little comfort to people who will continue to face low wages and high costs.

Tourism (VAT)

Baroness Ritchie of Downpatrick Excerpts

Tuesday 11th February 2014 Westminster Hall

[Ms Margaret Ritchie (South Down) (SDLP)]

I am pleased not only to have secured the debate but to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Hollobone. I am pleased that the Minister is here to listen and to respond. I thank my co-signatories to the debate, my friends the hon. Members for Brighton, Pavilion (Caroline Lucas), and for Strangford (Jim Shannon). I am pleased to see an excellent turnout from MPs across the UK and across the House, which reflects the importance of the debate. I offer an apology from my hon. Friend the Member for Foyle (Mark Durkan), who is on a Public Bill Committee on consumer rights this morning. During the past couple of years, he has submitted an early-day motion on the subject, and tabled an amendment to a Finance Bill on the issue.

A reduction in VAT is important for tourism, which is a vital industry across these islands; it provides 10% of GDP and supports more than 2 million jobs in the UK. In Ireland, the industry employs some 180,000 people and generates an estimated €5 billion a year. There is potential for significant growth in the sector, especially in Northern Ireland, and that growth would boost associated industries and the wider economy.

Those who come to the UK as tourists spend money in our hotels, pubs, restaurants and shops. They bring economic life to areas that have struggled in the recent economic climate. However, the tourism industry was hit particularly hard by the higher rate of VAT introduced by the Government, and no alleviation has been offered. It is common practice across the EU for member states to introduce sector-specific cuts for the tourism industry, which some offer for accommodation rates, some for tourist and cultural attractions and some for restaurant charges. The UK is one of only four states that ignore all those options. As a result, the industry in Britain and Northern Ireland confronts one of the worst policy regimes possible.

[Roger Williams (Brecon and Radnorshire) (LD)]

I congratulate the hon. Lady on securing the debate. Small hospitality businesses in my constituency are afraid to go above the threshold for VAT registration for fear of having to pay a rate of 20% on their income. Does she agree that reducing the VAT rate would encourage such small businesses to expand?

[Ms Ritchie]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for his helpful intervention, and I completely agree with him. In our nearest neighbour, the Republic of Ireland, VAT on tourism products is now 9%. Even in the difficult economic climate that the Republic has experienced—it has just come out of the bail-out situation—the VAT rate reduction has underpinned businesses in the tourism sector and encouraged new ones to emerge.

[Mr Nigel Dodds (Belfast North) (DUP)]

I, too, commend the hon. Lady and her colleagues on securing this important debate. To be parochial for a moment, in Northern Ireland the problem is our land frontier with the Irish Republic where, as she has just mentioned, there is a lower rate of VAT. Is that not a particular issue for the Province, given people’s propensity simply to go south to enjoy better VAT rates?

[Ms Ritchie]

I thank the right hon. Gentleman for his very helpful intervention. I absolutely agree with him. My constituency borders County Louth in the Republic of Ireland. Many people come to the island of Ireland via Dublin airport, where there will be a zero rate of air passenger duty from April this year. The lower VAT rate on tourism products encourages many of them to use their purchasing power on accommodation and restaurants in the Republic of Ireland, rather than travelling north, where they would have an opportunity to invest in our local economy.

As a labour-intensive industry, the tourism sector is a leading employer. In particular, it offers younger people entry-level jobs at the start of their careers, and more than 44% of people employed in the sector are less than 30 years old. We face a youth unemployment crisis, with more than one in four young people out of work, and the Government’s lack of support for the tourism sector is clearly impairing job creation. A cut in the rate of VAT would create demand, which would spur job creation and go some way towards reducing youth unemployment. In Ireland, the VAT cut for tourism has produced an extra 10,000 jobs in just over a year. A prominent report on the subject published by Deloitte produced evidence that a similar tourist VAT cut in the UK would create some 80,000 jobs.

[Mr Geoffrey Cox (Torridge and West Devon) (Con)]

I congratulate the hon. Lady on securing this extremely important debate. I represent an area of the south-west that is affected by flooding. Does she empathise, and does she agree that if the Chancellor considered a cut in VAT, it would be a hugely welcome boost to the thousands of small tourist businesses on which the economy of the south-west depends, and that it would help those who are shivering in the midst of the flooding?

[Ms Ritchie]

I thank the hon. and learned Gentleman for his helpful intervention. My colleagues from Northern Ireland and I offer our sympathy, support and empathy to the people of the south-west. My aunt used to work in the hospitality industry in Plymouth many years ago, so I know it quite well. I suggest to the Minister that a cut in VAT would help those who are struggling economically, financially and emotionally at this difficult time.

[Mr George Howarth (Knowsley) (Lab)]

I congratulate the hon. Lady on securing the debate and on the forceful way in which she is putting her case. Does she agree that attractive tourist destinations such as Northern Ireland and Merseyside are being hampered competitively by the arrangements elsewhere in Europe that she has described?

--- Later in debate ---

[Ms Ritchie]

The right hon. Gentleman is absolutely correct. Other countries in the EU, including Belgium, the Netherlands and Germany, have much more competitive rates. In France, for example, there is a banking agreement between the Government and the industry. Such measures help to attract visitors and ensure that the money they spend is invested in the local economy.

[Tim Farron (Westmorland and Lonsdale) (LD)]

I congratulate the hon. Lady on securing this incredibly important debate. She mentioned the possibility that a VAT rate reduction for the tourism industry would lead to increased job creation. Would she recognise that many people in the tourism industry—particularly in places such as my constituency, the Lake district, and the Yorkshire dales—are desperate not only to create more jobs but to ensure that jobs are better paid and that a living wage can be paid to people working in the tourism industry? Does she acknowledge that a cut to a fairer level of VAT would help to make tourism a more high-wage industry?

[Ms Ritchie]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for his intervention and I agree with him. Many jobs in the tourism sector are quite low paid, but if there was a level playing field in taxation rates, that would afford the opportunity for employers to pay better rates. It would also ensure that people have confidence and trust, and would allow them to do a better job in promoting their local areas.

I would like to make a little progress. Will the Minister robustly consider the case for a reduction in VAT on hotel accommodation and visitor attractions from 20% to 5%? Would he also consider broadening that out in future to the wider hospitality sector, including to food served in pubs and restaurants? That would encourage many more foreign visitors and provide an incentive for staycations in the domestic market. It would boost coastal resorts, rural retreats and cities and towns that have been hit hard by the economic downturn since 2008.

The industry is significantly constrained by its lack of price competitiveness. The Chancellor is not long back from Davos. While there, he may have learned that the World Economic Forum places the UK in 138th place for price competitiveness for tourism, out of 140 countries. The UK sits at the bottom of the international league table, with businesses facing the challenge of the highest rates in the world for VAT, air passenger duty and visa charges. The purpose of today’s debate is not to rehearse the arguments on issues such as air passenger duty, but that placing shows that the Government’s lack of action on VAT forms part of a broader lethargy when it comes to supporting the tourism industry.

The Government say that visitor numbers remain strong, but I would suggest that that is in spite of the current pricing policy, rather than because of it. The UK’s balance of payments for tourist products has declined steeply in the past 15 years, making it clear that tourism growth has not been what it could have been in recent years, and that we are not maximising the industry’s enormous potential to deliver revenue and jobs. I would argue that the blame for that lies with the policy regime, which is holding back the industry’s potential. Any argument from the Government based on the cost of a VAT cut being prohibitive is highly dubious.

There is strong evidence from the Treasury’s own economic modelling, as used by Professor Adam Blake in a study for the British Hospitality Association, that a VAT cut for the sector would benefit the whole economy. Yes, there might be a loss of some £640 million in the first year, but that would be comfortably offset by years 2 and 3 of the programme. Figures show that a 15% cut in tourism VAT would quickly become revenue-neutral and would result in a radically increased tax take of £2.6 billion over 10 years, delivering a £4 billion boost to the gross domestic product. I repeat: those figures do not come from the industry or lobbying consultants. They are derived from the Treasury’s own internal economic models.

[Mr Laurence Robertson (Tewkesbury) (Con)]

The hon. Lady will be aware that alongside this debate and campaign there is great concern, as expressed in the main Chamber just a few days ago, about the plight of struggling pubs, many of which are closing each and every week. There are a number of issues behind that. Beer taxation, which the Government started to address, is certainly one of them, but VAT is hampering that industry as well, particularly when pubs survive through the food that they provide. Does the hon. Lady agree that one way to help pubs, which are a vital part of the tourism industry, would be to consider how they are affected by VAT?

[Ms Ritchie]

I thank the hon. Gentleman, who is the Chair of the Northern Ireland Affairs Committee, for his intervention. I agree with him on that point, but I see restaurants and pubs that serve food as being further down the line, so to speak. Nevertheless, I do not disagree with his point, because we must invest in local economies and jobs throughout the UK.

[Mark Field (Cities of London and Westminster) (Con)]

The hon. Lady will appreciate that my constituency attracts a huge amount of tourism, being right in the centre of London. I therefore have some sympathy with a lot of what she says—a number of operators have lobbied me on the matter. However, she recognised and referred to the idea that the Treasury would potentially lose money in the short term. She mentioned some specifics on which she would want immediate action—tourist attractions and accommodation—but does she not recognise that if we include other things, such as pub food, we are looking at a very uncertain tax break? It could cost considerably more money at a difficult time for the public finances. Is it not therefore important that she focuses specifically on measures that will have the maximum benefit for the UK’s tourism industry, without negative effects on the public purse?

[Ms Ritchie]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for his intervention. Although I understand that at this stage the focus must be on accommodation and visitor attractions, it would be wrong not to pursue the Treasury and the Minister to try to ensure that we get a better deal for our tourism industry and the wider population we represent.

It might be helpful if I gave a little information from the British Hospitality Association and the Cut Tourism VAT campaign. The Government have asserted that they cannot afford to take a loss on VAT income. It is worth pointing out, however, that the direct loss of VAT incurred by a reduction for visitor accommodation and attractions would be £1.2 billion. Half of that loss would be made good within the first year via savings from social security benefits—more people would be employed—and increased tax yields, principally from employment-related taxes. The year 1 deficit would therefore be £645 million.

[Stephen Lloyd (Eastbourne) (LD)]

rose—

[Ms Ritchie]

I will take a final intervention.

[Stephen Lloyd]

I thank the hon. Lady for giving way, and for securing this debate. Professor Blake said that he felt that a VAT cut would be

“one of the most efficient, if not the most efficient, means of generating GDP gains at low cost to the exchequer”

that he had seen, under the Treasury’s own model. Furthermore, a week or so ago I had a comprehensive meeting with VisitBritain and was reminded that such a reduction would create 80,000 new jobs. That would make a significant difference and neutralise the cost to the Treasury, exactly as the hon. Lady says.

[Ms Ritchie]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for his helpful intervention. It is worth pointing out that Professor Blake used the Treasury’s model for the research that resulted in his recommendation that the focus of a VAT cut be on accommodation and visitor attractions.

I would like to make a little more progress. I would like the Minister to clarify whether the Treasury accepts the figures resulting from its modelling, and whether it contests that this measure would be revenue-neutral and bring a long-term benefit, in terms of tourism numbers, tax revenue and job creation. If the Minister has figures that dispute that, I think everybody would be grateful to see them.

I would like to set the issue in the EU context. Even if the Government concede that the cost would not be excessive, they frequently argue that if such a cut was granted to the tourism sector, every other industry would be queuing up to get a similar cut. That is simply not the case. The EU has already established that the tourism industry is one of very few labour-intensive services that would be eligible for a reduced rate of VAT. Strikingly, the vast majority of other EU member states, which appreciate the importance of the industry, have exercised that right, but not the UK. As was pointed out in a report by Deloitte in 2011, the UK is the only country in the EU that does not apply a reduced rate of VAT to some part of its tourism sector.

The UK is one of only four of the EU’s 27 member states that do not take advantage of the reduced VAT rate on visitor accommodation, one of only 14 that apply the full VAT rate to admissions to amusement parks, and one of only nine that apply the full rate to admissions to cultural attractions. Thirteen countries, including Ireland, also have a reduced VAT rate for restaurant meals. That is not a record of which the UK can be proud. We hear much from the Government about how they are constrained and restrained by Brussels; here is a perfect example of where the Government have the right to be flexible, but they have so far refused to exercise that right.

Other countries are a rich seam of information on the benefits of a cut. It is no coincidence that after such measures are implemented, countries tend to stick with them. If we compare Ireland and the UK, we see a tale of two Governments. The introduction of a 9% VAT rate for tourism-related business and services made 2013 the most successful year since the financial crisis for Irish tourism, with visitor numbers up 10% and more than 9,000 jobs created.

[Tessa Munt (Wells) (LD)]

The Minister will know of my passion for caravans, because there are so many in my constituency. I thank him for the work that he did last year to ensure that the proposed VAT rate on caravan sales was dropped from 20% to 5%, which has saved the industry in my area and other parts of the UK. I ask him to consider a tourism-related VAT cut in exactly the same vein. Holidaymakers’ loyalty to the UK, holiday businesses’ investment in the UK, and the passion for people felt by tourism staff, of whom I was one for a decade, deserve to be rewarded with a sensible approach to this issue.

[Ms Ritchie]

Yes, that is what many of us are saying. We are making a special plea to the Treasury for a sensible approach that ensures growth in our local economies.

In conclusion, to take the case of Ireland, north and south, the island is marketed as one area, but it has two different taxation regimes and two different rates of tax on tourism products, including both visitor attractions and accommodation. We believe that that needs to be synchronised in some measure. I hope that the Minister sees that there is a strong case for a VAT reduction for accommodation and attractions. It could subsequently be widened to include food served in pubs and restaurants, which forms an integral part of our wider tourism sector. That would send a strong message of support to the tourism industry and, importantly, enable it to compete on a more even basis with other European nations, which have almost unanimously introduced such measures. I know that the local tourism industry in Northern Ireland—particularly in my constituency, where wonderful work is already being done—would welcome it with open arms.

There are many MPs here from England, Scotland and Wales, and I know, having talked to some of them, that they would also welcome such measures to pump-prime and grow the local economy, and enable the tourism industry to invest in growth and jobs. This Government talk a great deal about creating growth in the private sector, delivering jobs and supporting local businesses. Here is a ready-made policy that could be implemented quickly and would deliver instant results. I hope that we have a full and frank debate about the issue, leading up to the Minister’s response and, hopefully, to some better news in the Budget report on 19 March.

[Several hon. Members]

rose—

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Gauke]

I reiterate that funding the cut by additional borrowing would be contrary to our long-term economic plan to get the deficit down and put our public finances in a credible position. It would entail a risk to the recovery. As all hon. Members know, the Government’s priority is to tackle the record budget deficit decisively but fairly and to restore confidence in the economy and support the economic recovery. The conclusion that we reached, therefore, which I announced in Parliament last year, is that a VAT cut would not produce sufficient economic growth to outweigh the revenue shortfall. I have not seen any new evidence since then that has led me to revisit that conclusion, so, at present, the Government have no plans to introduce a VAT cut for the sector.

[Ms Ritchie]

The Minister will be aware of the report of Professor Adam Blake, who I understand is a Treasury adviser, and who used the Government’s computable general equilibrium model and maintained that it would be possible for a reduction in VAT on tourism to end up fiscally neutral. Has the Minister a comment to make on that, and did he talk to Professor Blake about the report and to Deloitte?

[Mr Gauke]

I think that I have touched on that, but I want to emphasise that the figures produced by the industry and Professor Blake represent independent research; the Treasury has engaged with the campaign and has concluded that VAT cuts would lead to a significant revenue shortfall. I could go into more detail about the modelling, but because of the time I will not. We do not accept the conclusions that the hon. Lady refers to.

A more targeted VAT cut, on a regional basis, is not possible under EU VAT law, because a single rate of VAT for a particular good or service must apply throughout a member state. A reduced rate for Northern Ireland is not possible, and it is also not possible to distinguish between tourists, locals and people on business who use a restaurant or hotel. However, I reassure hon. Members that we recognise the importance of the tourism industry and remain committed to a wide range of measures to support the sector.

Since 2011-12, we have put £37 million into the tourism pillar of the GREAT campaign, which in 2012-13 generated a return of more than 400,000 visits to the target cities; those visits brought in £200 million, which is a return of 8:1 on the investment. Between 2011 and 2015, we are spending £50 million on a tactical marketing campaign via VisitBritain, with a further £50 million match-funded by the private sector to market what the UK has to offer overseas. Between 2011-12 and 2014-15, we are spending £10 million on a campaign to encourage domestic tourism, which has already generated about £300 million in additional spending. There are also good results in Northern Ireland, where in the 12 months to September there was an 8% increase in the number of visits compared with the previous 12 months.

We are taking action to help the tourism industry, but a cut in VAT would be expensive and would create a revenue shortfall. That would put the Government’s economic credibility and long-term economic plan at risk.

Fairness and Inequality

Baroness Ritchie of Downpatrick Excerpts

Tuesday 11th February 2014 Commons Chamber

[Jonathan Edwards]

The answer to that is to have openness rather than party-controlled lists. I am sorry that the hon. Lady does not share my ambition for wider political realignment in the United Kingdom, and that she prefers a system in which priority is always given to the affluent areas in the south-east of England.

[Ms Margaret Ritchie (South Down) (SDLP)]

I am sure that my hon. Friend is aware that Northern Ireland has had a system of proportional representation for about 40 years. Does he agree that a PR electoral system provides opportunities that would not otherwise exist for minorities to be represented?

[Jonathan Edwards]

I believe that the House of Commons would be far better if we had such a system, rather than a system that bases its politics on preserving the power of two political parties.

Economic development has become radically distorted as inequality has risen. My constituency predecessor pointed out last year in an economic study entitled “Offa’s Gap” that the Welsh economy had been growing more slowly in relation to its historical trend growth and to that of the UK economy for the past two decades. He and Plaid Cymru’s other noted economics adviser, Eurfyl ap Gwilym, concluded that Wales needed the kind of defined economic and export development strategy that is sadly lacking under the current Labour Welsh Government. Similarly, the economic policies of the current Westminster Government are woefully inadequate and ignore the requirements of my country.

--- Later in debate ---

[Ms Ritchie]

Irrespective of our political differences and affiliation, does the hon. Gentleman agree that it was Ireland as a united country that played in that rugby team?

[Jim Shannon]

I know that, of course, but it would not have been a team without the Ulstermen, and that—