The NHS

Baroness Finlay of Llandaff Excerpts

Thursday 5th July 2018 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Finlay of Llandaff (CB)]

My Lords, the noble Lord, Lord Darzi, in his superb opening speech, reminded us that we must not forget what the alternatives to the NHS look like, when whole tranches of the population cannot pay for care. As Bevan said:

“The field in which the claims of individual commercialism come into most immediate conflict with reputable notions of social values is that of health”.


It is said that you cannot know where you are going unless you know where you have come from. Our roots go back far. Lady Beatrice Webb led the 1909 minority report of the Royal Commission on the Poor Law, which called for a unified medical service. Beveridge, himself a researcher for the minority report, recognised the influence of that on himself. Then Bevan, in an inspired political appointment, took on the medical resisters, and we all celebrate the benefit from their defeat.

My interests go back more than four and a half decades, working fully in the NHS. I am grateful to all the patients I have looked after, who have taught me so much and enriched my life. It is a two-way process, and it is has been an honour and privilege to work with them.

In Bevan’s book In Place of Fear, he wrote:

“Preventable pain is a blot on any society. Much sickness and often permanent disability arise from a failure to take early action”.


By embracing artificial intelligence, we now have amazing opportunities for early action: we can decrease error, diagnose sepsis, acute kidney injury and melanomas, use CT and MRI to diagnose cancers, and so much more. The horizons are expanding before us. In my own cancer centre we are using virtual reality to help patients understand what is happening to them. Yesterday, at the Bevan Commission international conference—I declare my interest as a commissioner—artificial intelligence was seen as key to reducing error but was not expected to replace clinical roles in the next 10 years.

The latest paper from the Bevan Commission stresses the need for social support and social change. This week, Vaughan Gething, the Minister in the Welsh Assembly, has announced plans for Wales to be the first “compassionate country”. Across society, we must all take responsibility. Loneliness is a killer.

We must recognise the unique value in each individual and harvest it, recognising that adverse childhood experiences result in poor physical and mental health in adulthood, and take responsibility. For these children, the most important factor in their future is a stable adult in their lives.

Social care prevents some problems and delays others. It does not substitute for, or replace, life-saving technology or highly complex interventions when we need them.

We need a huge shift in controlling data. Patients should be able to access all their data. The OpenNotes trial found that 99% of patients and 75% of doctors want to continue with open access.

Bevan said that we would be in a state of constant change, and we are. We must look forward. We must not carry on squeezing until the pips squeak, but we must value care, science and vocation in our staff, so that in 70 years’ time we can meet the greatest need without the threat of somehow having to find money to pay—perhaps even millions of pounds if it is life-saving.

National Health Service: Assaults on Staff

Baroness Finlay of Llandaff Excerpts

Wednesday 20th June 2018 Lords Chamber

[Lord O’Shaughnessy]

I have to take issue with the point the noble Lord makes. It is absolutely not the case that the Government value property more than staff. We all value the work that NHS staff do every day in very difficult conditions. That is one of the reasons that we announced our historic funding settlement at the beginning of this week. On the problem that the noble Lord raises, he is right to say that, looking back over NHS Protect’s data, starting in 2008-09, there has been a steady rise in the number of assaults on and incidents of abuse of NHS staff. Clearly that is completely unacceptable. However, there is disagreement about the reasons for that, and it is worth dwelling on that. They include not just the greater volume of patients and better reporting, but the increase in mental illness and dementia, and more severe mental illness being dealt with in hospitals rather than police cells. I do not use that as an excuse, but merely to explain that there is some uncertainty about the reasons for it. It was under NHS Protect’s aegis that this steady rise happened. It has fulfilled its function, which is to make sure that security management services are available to every NHS trust—but in the end it has to be down to every trust to take responsibility for the safety of its staff, and that is the system we are moving ahead with now.

[Baroness Finlay of Llandaff (CB)]

My Lords, given that alcohol is involved in more than 60% of assaults in the acute sector, more than 30% of assaults in the mental health sector and more than 70% of assaults in the ambulance sector, will the Minister explain why the Government have abandoned progress with the sobriety scheme pilot, which showed a very high success rate in avoiding reoffending in alcohol-fuelled crime? It would provide a tool for non-custodial sentencing where people are known to have assaulted NHS staff under the influence of alcohol.

[Lord O’Shaughnessy]

I will look into the specific issue that the noble Baroness mentions. I do not have the details in front of me. I know that all local authorities provide free, taxpayer-funded rehabilitation services for those who are suffering from alcohol addiction. I should also point out that this Government have increased progressive taxation on stronger alcohol, such as white cider, specifically to try to change people’s drinking habits and to reduce alcohol-related violence.

Carers: Health and Well-being

Baroness Finlay of Llandaff Excerpts

Tuesday 12th June 2018 Lords Chamber

[Lord O’Shaughnessy]

The noble Baroness makes a very important point. Indeed, in the carers action plan there is a specific commitment from the department to work with local authorities to improve social work guidance in terms of spotting carers, many of whom are not even aware that they are formally designated as carers, and signposting them to the right support. There will also be an awareness-raising campaign among social workers so that they understand their duties.

[Baroness Finlay of Llandaff (CB)]

Will the Government’s action plan have a specific focus on children and adolescents who are carers, often of a single parent who may have physical and/or mental health problems? The child often carries the whole responsibility, and is sometimes also responsible for their siblings. When they have an adverse experience, such as coming home and finding their parent deteriorated or dead, they need an enormous amount of support. Therefore, the education system also needs to be involved in any strategy looking at children.

[Lord O’Shaughnessy]

The noble Baroness is quite right; it is hard to imagine what the burden must be on those young carers who are looking after parents and siblings. Young carers are explicitly mentioned in the action plan; again, I point to two commitments in that. First, there is a young carers identification project, which is working with Carers UK to make sure that we can find young carers. Secondly, the DfE has committed in its children in need review to make sure that young carers are getting the educational support they need in school and out of school to make sure that their educational outcomes do not suffer.

Learning Disabilities Mortality Review

Baroness Finlay of Llandaff Excerpts

Wednesday 9th May 2018 Lords Chamber

[Lord O'Shaughnessy]

The point that the noble Baroness makes about the involvement of people with learning disabilities in this process is critical. I did not respond to a question from the noble Baroness, Lady Jolly, about communications with people with learning disabilities. Having written a manifesto in the past and having had it translated into the Easy Read format, I know that this is critical. I know that there are attempts to make sure that communications are made in that format where it is helpful to do so.

On the noble Baroness’s question about training, we have a really good template which my honourable friend Caroline Dinenage mentioned in the other place yesterday, and that is dementia training. It is tiered, with tiers 1 and 2, and it has been rolled out very broadly across the health and care sectors with great success. Therefore, I think that we have a template for doing this, and I know that my honourable friend is taking that forward. It was a specific recommendation in the report by the University of Bristol. My honourable friend committed to take forward with NHS England all those recommendations, and that is what we will endeavour to do.

[Baroness Finlay of Llandaff (CB)]

My Lords, given that the report recommends that there should be a named healthcare co-ordinator, yet there is a serious shortage of experienced learning disability medical and nursing staff and it will take some time for trainees to feed through the system, have the Government considered discussing with the GMC and the Nursing and Midwifery Council ways of attracting back into the service older, currently retired professionals who might have a great deal of wisdom and might be motivated to work in a specific area, act as a person’s advocate and provide on-site teaching in conjunction with the person? They could take on the role of communicator and navigator to develop a strategic pathway for the person with learning difficulties or disabilities, and they could also have a role in teaching people about the signs of sepsis, pneumonia and so on, so that there are early alerts.

[Lord O'Shaughnessy]

The noble Baroness makes an excellent point. Clearly there is a need to recruit healthcare co-ordinators. One positive thing that I would highlight is a recommendation in the report from the University of Bristol regarding the sharing of health action plans between health and care agencies. That is already happening and is one positive step. Her idea about bringing back into the profession more experienced professionals to act as advocates is a very good one. A concerted effort is being made to do that through the Return to Practice programme. I do not know whether there is a specific strand relating to people with learning disabilities but I will take that away and investigate it.

On her point about signs of sepsis, pneumonia and other diseases, which are among the causes of this early mortality, some good progress is being made. NHS England is creating new pathways in those areas specifically designed for people with learning disabilities, and I believe that it will be publishing some of them this year.

HPV Vaccinations

Baroness Finlay of Llandaff Excerpts

Monday 26th March 2018 Lords Chamber

[Lord O'Shaughnessy]

My noble friend is quite right to highlight the link between HPV and oral cancer. The growing evidence base is one of the things which the JCVI is taking into consideration. There is absolutely no doubt that HPV causes around 99% of cervical cancers. The link to other cancers, such as the one my noble friend mentioned, is not quite the same and is still disputed, but it is one of the issues being considered.

[Baroness Finlay of Llandaff (CB)]

My Lords, given that the Government have recognised the importance of HPV, do they also recognise that some boys who are having a homosexual relationship will not come forward and may, therefore, be at very high risk prior to being offered immunisation? Boys also act as a reservoir for HPV among girls. There may be girls whose parents do not consent to them having immunisation but they are particularly at risk because 70% of cervical cancers are caused by HPV.

[Lord O'Shaughnessy]

Yes, of course. Among the technical issues which the JCVI has to take into account is the risk profile of boys at different ages and with different sexual behaviours.

Emergency Hospital Admissions

Baroness Finlay of Llandaff Excerpts

Wednesday 7th March 2018 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Finlay of Llandaff (CB)]

Is the Department of Health and Social Care, in conjunction with NHS England, monitoring the completeness of 24/7 nursing coverage in the community? Even though the pilots, which will have a virtual ward, will help determine the most vulnerable patients, those patients will still need hands-on nursing at the time they need it. If it is not available, they will inevitably end up being transported to hospital.

[Lord O’Shaughnessy]

One of the issues the NAO reports is that we do not yet have good enough data on what is happening in the community. The creation of the community services dataset will enable us to track precisely what is available in the community in every area. Concerns have been raised in this House before about the number of district nurses, which unfortunately has fallen over recent years. It has now shown a small increase year on year and we hope we are starting to turn the corner on community nursing numbers, too.

NHS: Waiting Lists

Baroness Finlay of Llandaff Excerpts

Monday 26th February 2018 Lords Chamber

[Lord O'Shaughnessy]

I think we all know what happened in 2010, but it might be worth pointing out that 10 years ago, half of patients waited more than 18 weeks for referral to treatment and that is now only about 10%.

[Baroness Finlay of Llandaff (CB)]

My Lords, given that many consultants report feeling demoralised and worn down by constant pressure from the number of clinical problems they are dealing with and the administrative pressures that they find themselves under, what discussions have the Government had with NHS England, and what discussions has NHS England had with trusts, on ways that consultants and their teams could have better administrative support and better ways to achieve upgrades in equipment that they may need to undertake specialised procedures? At the moment, they are having to apply and reapply for funding, which wears them down and takes away from clinical time.

[Lord O'Shaughnessy]

I shall write to the noble Baroness on what NHS England is doing about the specific issue. I think her real point is about morale. We know that NHS staff do an incredible job under a great deal of pressure, dealing with that rising demand. We are doing two things to try to alleviate that situation. One, which we have talked about, is increased numbers coming through training so that we can increase staffing. The other is pay. Getting rid of the pay cap and allowing for an Agenda for Change pay increase is a good way of saying thank you to those staff.

NHS: Winter Crisis

Baroness Finlay of Llandaff Excerpts

Wednesday 7th February 2018 Lords Chamber

[Lord O'Shaughnessy]

As the noble Baroness knows, last year we had two significant spending announcements —there were two Budgets—in the March Budget on social care and in the November Budget for NHS funding, with billions extra being put into the service to meet very quickly rising demand. The review that will come out in summer will be a retrospective review of planning and the success of planning for winter. There will also be important lessons to be learned from it I am sure.

[Baroness Finlay of Llandaff (CB)]

Are the Government planning to ask NHS England to review the number of beds available, given that staff at the moment are starting shift after shift with no beds available and having patients who need IV therapy or even ventilation in their departments who cannot possibly be sent home? Staff morale is inevitably being undermined because they just do not know where they can put these patients.

[Lord O’Shaughnessy]

The noble Baroness is quite right to highlight the issue of bed occupancy; it is very high. The service managed to get it down below 85% before Christmas but inevitably it has risen since then. There is a big improvement in delayed transfers of care; we need that to continue to happen, and it was welcome that the Secretary of State for local government announced more funding for social care so that we can increase those transfers into social care and free up space in hospitals.

NHS Winter Crisis

Baroness Finlay of Llandaff Excerpts

Monday 5th February 2018 Lords Chamber

[Lord O'Shaughnessy]

I thank the noble Baroness for her questions. I am glad she had a positive experience this morning at the hospital she mentioned. She is quite right that bed occupancy is very high at the moment. A good job was done in getting it down below 85% across the system in the run-up to Christmas, but of course it has filled up subsequently. An important part of dealing with this is the social care side, as we know, and the extra funding that has gone in is having some impact on these so-called DToCs—delayed transfers of care—and freeing up a number of beds.

The noble Baroness is right of course that money is important, particularly as we have the demands of a growing and ageing population. More money was of course announced in the November Budget for the short term. As for the long term, there is obviously a very informed and lively discussion going on not just among the Liberal Democrats but across the system and across politics about what is the right long-term solution. Obviously, as I have said before, issues of taxation are for the Chancellor and not for me, but I would be delighted to meet her to discuss those plans. What I can say, on behalf of the Secretary of State, is that we understand that there needs to be sustainable, long-term increases in NHS funding. We have to find the right way to do that.

[Baroness Finlay of Llandaff (CB)]

Do the Government recognise the concern of the Royal College of Emergency Medicine that the revised way of collecting data by NHS England does not allow meaningful comparisons because it includes walk-in and minor injury units, some of which are off site from the level 1 major emergency departments? Its concern is that this may be giving an overoptimistic impression of throughput and does not reflect the huge pressures on level 1 units. Will the Minister undertake to meet the president of the Royal College of Emergency Medicine with me to discuss some of its concerns?

[Lord O’Shaughnessy]

This is an afternoon of agreeing to meetings—but, yes, I would be delighted to do so. I am not knowledgeable enough about the issue that the noble Baroness mentioned but, while of course there is a huge difference in the kinds of workloads of those different types of A&E, the target incorporates all of them. They all have the obligation to reach the four-hour waiting time standard and we want to make sure that, whatever the situation and whatever the venue, we can do that.

Public Health: Strength and Balance Programme

Baroness Finlay of Llandaff Excerpts

Thursday 18th January 2018 Lords Chamber

[Lord O’Shaughnessy]

I have not seen an extrapolation of the benefits the noble Baroness talks about but they would clearly be significant. There are a number of schemes going on at a local level, which it is important to point out. One of them, which we have discussed before, is the “Dance to Health” programme that started with six pilots two years ago. That is now a nationwide scheme across England and Wales. Local authorities should look at precisely that kind of activity. Public Health England is committed to making sure that local authorities understand the Chief Medical Officer’s targets, so that we see more of these programmes taking place.

[Baroness Finlay of Llandaff (CB)]

My Lords, I declare my interest as president of the Chartered Society of Physiotherapy. There is evidence that every £1 spent on physiotherapy can save £1.50 on the cost of a fall along the whole trajectory. There is also evidence that targeted, multifactorial risk assessment of people at particular risk can decrease falls by 60%. Therefore, will the Minister make sure that falls prevention is viewed across the whole of the NHS and not only delegated to local authorities and programmes outside, because that would miss some of the people who are at the highest risk of falls?

[Lord O'Shaughnessy]

I am grateful to the noble Baroness for pointing out the benefits of physiotherapy. She might be aware of a scheme in Middlesbrough that is providing for people who have fallen a precise pathway from physio into community activities involving strength and balance work. As ever, one of the challenges is to make sure that all local authorities know about such programmes and put them in place. They are not necessarily expensive, but they take a bit of time. I will make sure that Public Health England is taking that attitude of spreading good practice across the country.