Pensioners: Shoplifting

Baroness Doocey Excerpts

Thursday 15th May 2025 Lords Chamber

[Lord Hanson of Flint (Lab)]

I should declare an interest in that I am a member of the Union of Shop, Distributive and Allied Workers, and have been since 1979. I am fully in contact with the members of that union, who do a great job in supporting shop staff and shop presence. What staff should not face is attacks from individuals when they uphold the law on cigarette sales, alcohol sales or other sales. In fact, I moved an amendment some years ago to ensure that protection was in place. It was defeated by the then Conservative Government. I am very proud to say that I shall be moving the same Motion in the Crime and Policing Bill and that it will be passed by my colleagues.

[Baroness Doocey (LD)]

My Lords, retailers often choose not to involve police when pensioners are caught shoplifting. Will the Minister discuss this issue with the College of Policing to ensure there is a consistent and fair approach to all offenders; balancing compassion for those who are in genuine hardship with the need for deterrence and public confidence in the justice system?

[Lord Hanson of Flint (Lab)]

Under the last Government, the National Police Chiefs’ Council produced a retail crime action plan, which is now around two years old. It includes a range of measures on how we can reduce shop theft across the board, but also looking at specific sectors. We have backed that up with a £7 million fund this year to support action on shop theft in town centres in particular.

I accept that there are a range of reasons why individuals undertake shop theft. Some are in criminal gangs, some are fuelling addiction problems, and some, as my noble friend mentioned, do so for reasons to do with poverty. We need to address all those issues but, ultimately, we should have no tolerance of shop theft as a whole, because it costs society, costs us as individuals, and is a crime that is seen as being victimless when it certainly is not. By all means, let us look at the individual circumstances, but our advice to police forces is to focus on this as a serious issue, for growth in the economy and for the impact on our society as a whole.

Telecommunications Fraud: Reimbursement of Victims

Baroness Doocey Excerpts

Wednesday 14th May 2025 Lords Chamber

[Lord Hanson of Flint (Lab)]

My noble friend can rest assured that under the Online Safety Act, which passed with an element of cross-party support but which has now been implemented by this Government, we have put in place stringent standards whereby, if illegal, harmful and fraudulent content is hosted by companies and they do not remove it when requested to do so, they will face fines and penalties which are severe. As I said to the noble Lord, Lord Vaux, we intend to keep that under review. We intend to look at how it is working, and if it is not working to a satisfactory level, we will take further action in the forthcoming fraud strategy paper that will be produced towards the end of this year.

[Baroness Doocey (LD)]

My Lords, Facebook’s removal of fact-checkers from its platforms leaves people even more exposed, with a new person scammed every seven minutes. To make matters worse, Ofcom decided to delay implementing its codes of practice for paid-for fraudulent advertising. Does the Minister share my concern that this decision by Ofcom means that key parts of the Online Safety Act will not be fully enforced until at least 2027?

[Lord Hanson of Flint (Lab)]

The noble Baroness has mentioned the fraudulent advertising duty, which, again, is a key part of the Online Safety Act. Ofcom assures me that it will consult very shortly, towards the summer, on codes of practice that will look at the very issue that she has mentioned—the advertising duty—with an aim to publish the final advertising codes around this time next year.

Counter Terrorism Policing: Arrests

Baroness Doocey Excerpts

Wednesday 7th May 2025 Lords Chamber

[Lord Davies of Gower (Con)]

My Lords, I pay tribute to the police, security services and other agencies across the country who have worked and continue to work around the clock to keep our country safe. Ken McCallum, the director-general of MI5, revealed last year that the British security services had foiled 43 late- stage terror plots since March 2017. Every one of these attacks threatened lives and sought to attack our very way of life. The work that our police and security services do every day should not be taken for granted, and I know the whole House will join me in recognising this work and paying thanks to those men and women who protect us.

On the events of 3 May, the scale of this operation is simply quite staggering. Eight men in total have been arrested by the Metropolitan Police Counter Terrorism Command, five on suspicion of preparation of a terrorist act in several locations across the country. I appreciate that this is a sensitive and ongoing matter and that the Minister is limited in what he can say. However, it is clear from what the Minister in the other place said yesterday that there are grounds to believe that this was a threat made at a state level by Iran.

The threat posed to British lives by Iran is considerable. Last year, Ken McCallum confirmed that the intelligence services and the police had identified 20 credible Iranian plots to kill or kidnap people in the UK since 2022. What we have seen in the last few weeks is not an isolated incident but another attempt to undermine our values, our way of life and the safety of our people. Given the scale of the risk posed by Iran and Iranian-backed organisations, I ask the Minister what advice the Government have received from the police and the intelligence agencies about proscribing the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps. What is the Government’s assessment of the impact of proscription in terms of how it will improve their capacity to combat the threat posed by the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps? Furthermore, can the Minister update the House on the discussions that the UK Government are having with their counterparts in Iran to hold them to account for the threats that that organisation poses to our democratic society and security? We have an ambassador and diplomats in Tehran. Can he confirm that urgent discussions are being undertaken with Iranian authorities on this matter? It is important that the Government take appropriate steps to strengthen their resolve against those who wish to harm us and our communities, and we on these Benches would welcome any steps made in that direction.

The news of these arrests will naturally make people worried. There will be communities around the country that feel particularly at risk, given the nature of the arrests made. Without speculating on any specific target, which I know the Minister is unable to do, can he none the less provide assurances to communities around the country that safeguards are in place to make sure that they are kept safe?

I am aware that the Minister making the Statement in the other place said the Government would not be providing a running commentary on the progress of the investigation, but can the Minister perhaps commit to keeping the House updated on any further developments?

This is a serious issue of national security, and people are feeling under threat in a very tangible sense. An assurance from the Government that they will keep us informed about how they are working to mitigate the threat we face and to implement safeguards for the future would be most welcome and would, I know, be much appreciated by the communities most likely to be targeted by the Iranian actors.

I reiterate my thanks for the work of our security services and the police, who have likely saved several lives through their work on this case alone. While I appreciate that this is an ongoing, sensitive matter, I hope the Minister will address the few questions that I have asked. I know that any assurances he can give to communities at risk will be most welcome.

[Baroness Doocey (LD)]

My Lords, I too take this opportunity to thank the security services and police for what they do. The weekend’s arrests are an important reminder of how hard they work behind the scenes to keep us all safe. The scale of the threat posed by the Iranian regime is great, and there is clear evidence of Tehran’s willingness to disregard the rule of law to silence critics and fuel extremism.

UK-based Iranians have been the main targets, with mounting proof of Iran seeking to control its citizens abroad through intimidation, harassment and violence. That culminated in last year’s stabbing of a journalist working for the TV station Iran International, attacked outside his London home; and Iranian journalists, including those working for the BBC Persian service, facing daily threats of violence. Meanwhile, Iranian intelligence continues to target Jewish and Israeli individuals abroad, spreading fear and disinformation. I too would like to know if the Minister can confirm that extra security measures are in place to provide vulnerable communities and individuals with protection and reassurance amid these direct and unacceptable attacks on both media and religious freedoms.

In opposition, the Government were clear that they supported the proscribing of the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps as a terrorist organisation. Canada took that step in June and the United States did so in 2019, but in Britain we have yet to make that call, preferring to keep communication channels open. Does the Minister agree that this weekend’s events indicate that the policy is not working, and that now is the time for the Government to act and to proscribe the IRGC as a terrorist organisation? Not only would that allow tighter control of the UK’s borders; it would enable the police proactively to charge those who materially or financially support the IRGC and enable assets linked to the organisation to be frozen.

The Liberal Democrats have previously welcomed sanctions against those with links to the Iranian regime, and we will support proposals to sanction the Iranian-backed Foxtrot criminal network when they come before the House next week. However, we hope the Government can go further to establish whether those with links to the Iranian regime have assets here in the UK. As such, we would like to see an audit carried out so we can find out where those assets are, including those put in the name of family members, so we can freeze them accordingly.

Thanks to the work of the police and security services, we appear to have been lucky this time, but we must now heed the warning and do more to ensure that the Iranian regime’s reach cannot continue to spread. Given the threat, does the Minister agree that now is not the time to cut the overseas budget, which had previously been used to support vital resilience programmes countering Iran’s malign influence?

It is already clear that the foundations of the previous world order are shifting fast, with America increasingly taking a step back, so can the Minister reassure the House that the Government are taking steps to fill the void by working with their international partners to combat Iran and address the wider situation in the Middle East?

[The Minister of State, Home Office (Lord Hanson of Flint) (Lab)]

I am grateful to both Front Benches for their questions, and I will try to answer them as best as I can.

To summarise for the House, colleagues will know that on Saturday 3 May counterterrorism police undertook a series of arrests relating to what I must make clear are two separate incidents and investigations, and a total of eight men were arrested by the Metropolitan Police Counter Terrorism Command under counter- terrorism and national security legislation. I can update the House to confirm that seven of those eight men currently remain in custody, and one is on bail with extremely serious and tight conditions. These are the first Iranian nationals arrested under the National Security Act. I join in the tribute that has been paid to the police and the security services, who have managed this event and brought the issues to conclusions on 3 May.

However, as colleagues have mentioned, this is an ongoing investigation so I am limited in what I can say and comment upon, but I want to say first and foremost that it is important that we hold Iran to account. Both the noble Lord and the noble Baroness asked what the Government can do to hold Iran to account. Noble Lords will recall that earlier this year, we announced in both Houses of Parliament the Foreign Influence Registration Scheme. It comes into effect on 1 July and ensures that a number of individuals connected with Iran, one of the first countries designated under the scheme, have to register a number of matters under that scheme by 1 July.

As the noble Baroness has mentioned, we have sanctioned a number of criminal entities that Tehran uses to do its bidding, such as the Foxtrot network—related documents will come before both Houses—alongside more than 450 Iranian individuals and entities that have been sanctioned to date by the UK Government.

Both Front Benches have mentioned proscription. It is common knowledge that we keep that under constant review. We have asked Jonathan Hall KC to provide a view on the counterterror framework, which does not fit neatly with existing states to date, and the Home Secretary has asked him to lead a review. I can confirm to the House today that that review has been finalised. We will be publishing it and its response shortly for colleagues in both Houses to examine, and we will make further announcements in due course on those issues.

It has been asked what steps we have taken on international engagement, whether we have consulted our allies and whether the Foreign Office had summoned the Iranian ambassador. In the Statement, we have said that the investigation is still in its early stages and the police are following various lines of inquiry as to the possible motivation of those currently arrested and in custody, or on police bail. I assure the House that as the investigation progresses, I will both engage internationally as appropriate and report back to the House on the issues that have been raised.

We are stronger when we are united, and our allies were supportive of the action over the weekend when this news broke. I know that the Foreign Office and the Foreign Secretary have reached out to key international partners to discuss those events with them.

We have judged sanctions to be a vital tool in deterring and disrupting Iran’s malign activity. They demonstrate that, along with our international partners, the UK continues to condemn Iran’s threats to international security and its human rights violations. We will be exploring further sanctions against Iranian-linked criminals, and the National Crime Agency will particularly target those who assist the IRGC and others in laundering their money.

The noble Baroness mentioned the overseas aid budget. There are some difficult decisions that the Government are taking. We have not yet finalised it; I have been in discussions with Ministers in the Foreign Office about that as it impacts upon areas of Home Office responsibility, but those issues are not yet finalised. Again, unfortunately, I cannot give any further detail to the noble Baroness at this point.

Both Front-Benchers mentioned that it is important that we ensure that individuals who are under threat are protected. Members of the House will know that the Home Office has worked with other government departments, as well as with relevant government agencies, to protect those identified as being at risk. The police and security services, as well as tracking down potential plots and threats, are working tirelessly to take other steps to ensure the safety of those concerned. Noble Lords will know that the Government have a general scheme for places of worship, particularly in relation to members of the Jewish community and synagogues. We have significant resource invested in protecting diplomatic missions, places of worship and individuals’ right to practise their religion at their chosen place of worship.

I cannot give details, and I am grateful that colleagues have not asked for further information, on the possible target, because it is an ongoing operation. I hope I can reassure the House by saying that the police have confirmed that they are in contact with the site that was the potential target. They have offered support, they have provided further security and other relevant advice, and, at the appropriate time, when it is safe to do so, the police will, and I will, through this House, confirm the alleged target of this plot. The Home Secretary has given a commitment to update both Houses—herself and the Security Minister in the other place and via me in this House—when it is operationally possible to do so. We will review state threats and the proscription tool as a matter of some urgency, and I hope I will be reporting on what Jonathan Hall has said and recommended to the Government, and our response to that, very shortly.

This is an ongoing investigation. When further information comes to light, the Government will bring it to both Houses. I felt it was important, following the incidents and arrests on 3 May, to make an early Statement, however general that is, to update the House on an important disruptive element identified by the security services, who I reserve absolute praise for in their tracking and taking action to prevent this alleged incident. The House will, in due course, be further notified of the contents of that incident.

Police: Stop and Search

Baroness Doocey Excerpts

Tuesday 6th May 2025 Lords Chamber

[Lord Hanson of Flint (Lab)]

Well, my Lords, I was in the Home Office when we had ID cards, which were abolished by the then Conservative/Liberal Democrat coalition. The noble Lord has made his point. I wish that they had not been abolished, but we are in a position now where, 15 years ago to the day, the party that he supports, with Liberal Democrat support, came to power and, as a result, abolished the ID cards that he now seeks to reintroduce.

[Baroness Doocey (LD)]

My Lords, every 14 hours a child is strip-searched in England and Wales by the police. Black children are four times more likely than white children to be targeted and most of the searches—at least 50%—result in no further action. It is a legal requirement for an appropriate adult to be in hand and on side when the child is searched, but there is clear evidence of widespread non-compliance with this. Despite the fact that the previous Government did a consultation last June and that the current Home Secretary has said that tighter safeguards are an urgent priority, no action has been taken. Can the Minister tell us when the Government are going to resolve this appalling situation?

[Lord Hanson of Flint (Lab)]

I am grateful to the noble Baroness. The Government hope to introduce new safeguards on her very point about the strip-searching of children via amendments to statutory codes of practice and will be bringing those forward in due course.

Knife Crime

Baroness Doocey Excerpts

Tuesday 6th May 2025 Lords Chamber

[Lord Hanson of Flint (Lab)]

The main focus of the Government’s new investment on preventing knife crime is the Young Futures hubs. We are starting to experiment with a couple of pilot schemes, which will draw in voluntary organisations and others around them to look at how we can best intervene on young people and their families accordingly. Those pilots will be undertaken very shortly, and I hope that we will roll out a number of Young Futures hubs nationwide once the pilots have been operational. Those hubs would then be the best opportunity for other organisations to work with them to secure resources and contribute to reducing knife crime.

[Baroness Doocey (LD)]

My Lords, youth offending teams, which are funded through the Turnaround early intervention programme, do excellent work with children at risk of entering the youth justice system, including those vulnerable to knife crime. However, consistency is vital in youth work, where success relies entirely on building trust. The problem is that funding for these teams is guaranteed only until March 2026. Could the Minister say whether there are plans to introduce some long-term funding to ensure that these teams can continue to do the excellent work they are currently doing?

[Lord Hanson of Flint (Lab)]

I will draw the noble Baroness’s comments to the attention of the Minister for Justice, the noble Lord, Lord Timpson. Youth offending teams are the responsibility of the Ministry of Justice. But, as I mentioned, the Home Office is trying to invest in the Young Futures programme. Those initial hubs will not replace other types of activity, such as youth offending teams; they are there to generate a collective response from organisations to look at what is needed most to reduce knife crime. So there is new funding going in from the Home Office, and I will raise her point with the noble Lord, Lord Timpson, on her behalf.

Knife Crime: Stop and Search

Baroness Doocey Excerpts

Tuesday 1st April 2025 Lords Chamber

[Lord Hanson of Flint (Lab)]

Stop and search remains a valuable tool. Last year, 14% of stop and searches resulted in an arrest and some 16,000 knives and firearms were found as a result of stop and search, so it is important. However, it is also important that it be done proportionally and that it has the confidence of the whole community. The Police Race Action Plan is looking at committing chief constables to identifying and addressing the disproportionality issues and why they are happening, and at giving proper training and support to police forces to ensure that they deal with stop and search in an effective and proportionate way.

[Baroness Doocey (LD)]

My Lords, what the three universities are doing on new technology to help the police so that they do not have to stop and search sounds very interesting and worthwhile, and the results are excellent—at the moment. It is very welcome because it will, we hope, eventually eliminate the need for stop and search, as weapons hidden under clothing will be visible and the police will not have to do anything. However, will police forces be given the additional funding they will need to update and maintain the system and, crucially, to purchase new mobile phones with very good cameras? The Minister will know that this is one of the three key elements of the scheme. They can then get rid of the antiquated mobile phones that most of them are still using.

[Lord Hanson of Flint (Lab)]

The noble Baroness will know that this year’s police settlement, which was announced in February, finally, has given an extra £1 billion to police forces.

[Baroness Doocey (LD)]

It is not enough.

[Lord Hanson of Flint (Lab)]

The noble Baroness says that it is not enough. I recall being Police Minister and the noble Baroness’s party cutting police resources after I left office. It may not be enough, but it is an extra £1 billion going into policing this year. We are trying to give flexibility. She is right about efficiencies and modernising which is why, again, we are ensuring that, as central government, we organise better purchasing and efficiencies and make better use of resources accordingly.

Theft of Mobile Telephones

Baroness Doocey Excerpts

Tuesday 4th March 2025 Lords Chamber

[Lord Hanson of Flint (Lab)]

First, I am very extremely sorry for that incident. It is an awful, threatening crime that worries people, and which can also access personal data, so it needs to be reduced and stopped wherever possible. One of the measures that we have in the Crime and Policing Bill, which was introduced into the House of Commons recently, ensures that police can take action quickly and speedily on the very point the noble Lord mentions.

At the moment, if a phone is tracked to a property, let us say, in south London, a warrant has to be issued for the police to enter that property. The proposals in the Crime and Policing Bill will ensure that, on the authority of an inspector, the police can enter those premises immediately. So in the case that the noble Lord mentions of his own family, if that were reported, a crime number logged and the phone tracked to a property in Lambeth, the inspector in Lambeth could immediately authorise a police visit and potentially either recovery or arrest. I hope the Opposition will support that when it comes before this House.

[Baroness Doocey (LD)]

My Lords, mobile phone thefts are almost out of control and are taking up a huge amount of police resources, but these could be dramatically reduced if smartphones were fitted with advanced device locking technology. This technology—unlike kill-switch technology, which is used by some of the companies that the Minister has mentioned—is integrated at the operating level, resistant to factory resets and, crucially, is activated automatically without user setup, which is a major breakthrough. Will the Government consider mandating its implementation in all new smartphones?

[Lord Hanson of Flint (Lab)]

The noble Baroness makes a very interesting suggestion. As I have already said, we are working with mobile phone companies to look at what is in the interests of preventing crime, while at the same time ensuring that users and consumers can use their phones in an appropriate way. I will look at that suggestion. We have a further meeting with the phone companies in around three months to report back on what action they have taken to date in relation to those issues, and we will certainly examine that for her.

Emergency Service Network Programme

Baroness Doocey Excerpts

Monday 24th February 2025 Lords Chamber

[Lord Hanson of Flint (Lab)]

Plan B is part of plan A, which is also to provide the 292 4G mobile phone sites that the noble Lord mentioned in his question. We have picked this up. We have made a decision to terminate the previous contract; we had a court case to do that. We are now putting in place a revised contract—we have to exit the former contract—and resilience will be built in to make sure that this is the most important service that can be provided, because this is how police, fire and other emergency services communicate with each other in times of difficulty. It is an absolute priority for the Home Office to get this right, and I hope that we will do so in the course of the next few years.

[Baroness Doocey (LD)]

My Lords, I keep hearing that the Government want us to be leaders in AI, but it is very difficult to work out how this can be when the Government have not dealt with the fact that the police are being run as an analogue operation in a digital age. It almost beggars belief that all 43 police forces in the UK use different IT systems, the majority of which do not even speak to each other.

We have just heard about the 51 year-old police national computer; that is never going to be sorted in the next, goodness knows, five to 10 years, and it stores only very basic biometric data. Many of the drones the police are using are clapped out and need to be replaced. When are the Government going to wake up to the major problem the police have got with technology and actually provide the funds to deal with this once and for all?

[Lord Hanson of Flint (Lab)]

The noble Baroness makes an extremely valid point. There are 44 police forces in total—43 plus the British Transport Police—and they have a range of different technological methods of gathering information and working. Obviously, from a taxpayer efficiency and a security point of view, we want to make sure that we get the best deal. Part of the Government’s efficiency drive will be to look at how we can work with police forces, which are independent, to do that downstream. The change we have made from the previous Government’s position will save the taxpayer £200 million per year when up and running. That is a more efficient way of getting a better service for the taxpayer.

Domestic Abusers: Reoffending

Baroness Doocey Excerpts

Monday 24th February 2025 Lords Chamber

[Lord Hanson of Flint (Lab)]

My noble friend hits on an important point. Domestic violence does not just happen when an individual reaches a certain age; it is inbuilt and ingrained over a long period of time. Therefore, in order to prevent domestic violence downstream, the way young people in primary and secondary schools and beyond are educated in mutual respect and understanding, and in non-violence, is extremely important. I would hope that my colleagues at the Department for Education, and indeed in the devolved Administrations in Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland, recognise that need for early intervention and resilience building to ensure that we do not create the perpetrators of the future who will then need the required investment and intervention I talked about in my earlier answers.

[Baroness Doocey (LD)]

My Lords, the Domestic Abuse Commissioner found that 60% of domestic abuse survivors wanted their perpetrator to attend a behavioural change programme, but that only 7% could do so because of the lack of availability. We do not have enough programmes and we do not know which programmes work best. Although some studies, such as Project Mirabal and the Drive programme, show promising results, the programme evaluation overall has been painfully slow. What steps are the Government taking to accelerate it?

[Lord Hanson of Flint (Lab)]

As I mentioned in my original answer, the Government have put £20.5 million into perpetrator intervention programmes currently, and those are under evaluation as we speak. The evaluations are slow by their very nature and, again, I can only answer for post 4 July 2024. What we are trying to do is examine, with the violence against women and girls strategy, what works effectively and what interventions we can take forward. Therefore, both the points that the noble Baroness made and other considerations of intervention—and how we evaluate that intervention to make sure it has a real impact and give comfort to victims primarily—are important issues. We will be examining that during the development of the violence against women and girls strategy.

County Lines Drug Trafficking

Baroness Doocey Excerpts

Monday 24th February 2025 Lords Chamber

[Lord Hanson of Flint (Lab)]

It is right that we should put children at the focus of county line activity. By that, I mean preventing children from being involved in county lines, not criminalising those children who are involved in county lines but seeing them, as I think my noble friend indicated, as victims who need our support. I will take away her contribution and discuss it with my right honourable friend the Police Minister, see what steps are being taken to do that, and contact my noble friend accordingly.

[Baroness Doocey (LD)]

My Lords, more than 27,000 suspected drug suppliers are either on bail or released under investigation due to forensic and digital backlogs. One in five of those cases has been going on for more than a year, and currently there are more than 25,000 digital devices waiting to be examined. While a government funding boost is always welcome, what is being done specifically to address the lack of regional and national co-ordination and the insufficient numbers of trained forensic personnel?

[Lord Hanson of Flint (Lab)]

The noble Baroness makes a valid point, and I will start from that premise. The Government have put an extra £1.1 billion into police forces with the police settlement that was approved by the House of Commons just a few weeks ago, and that is providing a range of functions. It is for police forces, chief constables and police and crime commissioners to determine the use of that resource locally, but she makes a valuable point about co-ordination and central management, which I will continue to reflect on because we need to ensure that there is not a backlog. The amount of digital material we have on our phones now—Twitter contents, phone calls, texts, Facebook messages and everything else—means that when someone is arrested there is a giant amount of digital information, and that is growing daily and monthly. It is important that we focus in on getting the right digital information to ensure convictions and drive up the conviction rate from the figure that I mentioned for between July and September last year, and that means tackling the backlog that the noble Baroness has rightly mentioned.