Draft West Midlands Combined Authority (Transfer of Police and Crime Commissioner Functions) Order 2024

Valerie Vaz Excerpts

Monday 26th February 2024 General Committees

[Valerie Vaz (Walsall South) (Lab)]

Thank you, Sir Graham, for allowing a Member of Parliament from the west midlands to speak. Further to the point of order made by my hon. Friend the Member for Easington, could I ask the Minister what legal advice has been taken on whether the Government are acting ultra vires, if the court decides that the consultation process the Government have belatedly undertaken has not been followed correctly?

[Chris Philp]

The question of ultra vires relates to whether the Government have a statutory power to act in a particular situation. The Government quite clearly do have a statutory power to act by bringing forward this order. The judicial review concerns the nature of the consultation, which is a separate question. I can tell the right hon. Lady that the Government believe that the consultation was properly conducted, and we will vigorously and robustly defend the judicial review.

[Valerie Vaz]

The issue of whether the Government are acting lawfully is a very serious one. My question was whether the Government had taken legal advice on that point, given that judicial review proceedings are pending and the court will hear the whole case on 7 March. The Minister talks about consultation, but could he say whether the people of the west midlands actually wanted this process and what the results of the consultation were?

[Chris Philp]

I have already answered the right hon. Lady’s first question: the Government are very clear that there is a lawful basis on which to bring forward this order in statute. We will also robustly—and, I trust, successfully—defend the judicial review relating to the consultation, which is a separate question. On the outcome of the consultation, about 7,000 replies were received, which is of course a tiny fraction of the population of the west midlands. The responses were fairly evenly split: I think it was 50% against, 46% in favour and 4% undecided, so it was pretty even. However, as the right hon. Lady will know from her long experience in the House, the Government will take the consultation responses into account when they make their decisions. This is not a vote or a referendum, and it is not that the largest number of responses wins; the quality of the responses and the arguments advanced in them will be carefully considered before the Government—in this case, the Home Secretary—take their carefully considered decision.

--- Later in debate ---

[Chris Philp]

I will.

[Valerie Vaz]

On a point of order, Sir Graham. I understand that the hon. Member for Lichfield has a connection to the Mayor, and I wish that he could state what that is. Should he or should he not be taking part in the proceedings?

[Michael Fabricant]

Further to that point of order, Sir Graham. I am really grateful to the right hon. Lady for pointing that out. Legally, I am under no obligation, as I understand it—perhaps you can clarify this, Sir Graham —to declare an interest, because there is no pecuniary interest whatever. I am more than happy to say that Andy Street is a friend of mine, and I am sure he is a friend of many others. Indeed, I like to think I am a special friend of Andy Street’s, and I simply state that for the record.

--- Later in debate ---

[Chris Philp]

Indeed. The copy-and-paste responses were on the negative side. Of course, if one discounted those, the balance of replies would have been different, wouldn’t it? It is important to stress that we do not know who the Mayor will be after the election. The election will take place, and the people of the west midlands will decide who will be the Mayor, exercising mayoral functions and, if the order is successful, PCC functions as well.

That is important, because the West Midlands police force is one of only a small handful of police forces across England and Wales in so-called special measures—it is called “formally engage”, but in substance it is special measures. I would also add that West Midlands police force is, I think, the second worst-performing police force in the country when it comes to detecting and clearing up crime. It strikes me that there is a great opportunity to improve the performance of West Midlands police force under new management, whoever the Mayor may be following the election on 2 May.

Let me make some more progress.

[Valerie Vaz]

Will the Minister give way on the consultation, because it is important?

[Chris Philp]

Goodness me, I am being generous today —I will give way.

[Valerie Vaz]

The Minister really is, but this is important, and it is our job to question him—I thought that was what we were here for. The consultation took place over Christmas. Those are never good consultations, because people have other things to do. The Minister says there were just 7,000 responses, but I think that is quite a lot. Could he clarify what he means by “cut and paste”? If the question is, “Do you want this to happen?”, the answer is going to be only either yes or no. By “cut and paste” does he mean just a yes or a no? Lastly, there was a referendum on this very proposition in 2021 and the people of the west midlands decided against it.

[Michael Fabricant]

rose—

[Michael Fabricant]

I understand that the last time the consultation was done, they were strongly supportive of the Mayor. They thought it was a waste of money, actually.

[Valerie Vaz]

Are you the Minister? Are you answering the questions?

[Michael Fabricant]

No, I am intervening. The right hon. Lady keeps intervening, so I am sure she is not saying that I should not intervene, with the Minister’s permission. Am I not correct that, in fact, people were overwhelmingly supportive? Labour Mayor Sadiq Khan, Labour Mayor Andy Burnham and Labour Mayor Tracy Brabin all have control over the police, too. It saves money. It is not meant to be a job-creation scheme.

[Chris Philp]

My hon. Friend is quite right. Let me turn to some of those questions. The consultation period ran from 20 December to 31 January. It will not escape eagle-eyed Committee members that that encompasses the entire month of January, which by no stretch of the imagination can be described as “over Christmas”.

The right hon. Member for Walsall South referred to a referendum. I do not know if she was referring, perhaps, to the previous police and crime commissioner election—

[Valerie Vaz]

In 2021.

[Chris Philp]

I am glad that the right hon. Lady, from a sedentary position, has clarified that. So when she referred to a referendum in her intervention a moment or two ago, she was in fact referring to the previous police and crime commissioner election. That was, of course, appointing an individual to the position of police and crime commissioner. He may have had a number of things in his manifesto, but I do not think we can in any way construe that as a referendum. There was certainly no question on the ballot paper about transferring, or not transferring, PCC powers. I do not think describing a PCC election as a referendum on this matter is an accurate representation of what occurred.

Let me return to the substance of the issue. Part 1 of the Government’s review of the role of PCCs cemented the Government’s view that bringing public safety functions together under the leadership of a combined authority Mayor has the potential to offer wider levers and a more joined-up approach to preventing crime. Our levelling-up White Paper reinforced that.

My hon. Friend the Member for Lichfield pointed to a number of other large cities around the country where police and crime commissioner functions are already exercised by the Mayor—with varying degrees of competence, I would add—and there are good reasons for that. There are efficiencies. The Mayor tends to be a higher-profile figure than the police and crime commissioner. The Mayor can exercise systems-wide leadership over a variety of things that are relevant to fighting crime. Typically, they can offer more effective leadership than a PCC can in the urban area concerned. I am an MP in London. While Sadiq Khan does not do a very good job as Mayor of London in general, he does have a wide range of powers, and the position has the potential to provide wider leadership on issues of crime and public safety than someone acting as a police and crime commissioner alone. We believe that that applies here as much as it does in those other cities.

--- Later in debate ---

[Chris Philp]

For the record, I did not quite say that. I did not talk about disregarding all the negative responses; I referred specifically to the copy-and-paste ones. However, I would like to make it clear for the record—

[Valerie Vaz]

What is the difference?

[Chris Philp]

There were more negative responses than just the copy-and-paste ones. I would like to make it clear for the record that the Government carefully considered all the responses, regardless of whether they were copy-and-paste ones or not. It is very important that anyone reading the report of our proceedings understands that.

--- Later in debate ---

[Chris Philp]

Sir Graham, I will of course follow your advice, or perhaps your instruction, and reply to that another time. We have had a wide-ranging debate, and I thank the shadow Minister, the hon. Member for Oldham West and Royton, for the considered manner in which he made his remarks and for his commitment not to divide the Committee.

There was just one question I wanted to answer, which related to whether there is to be further consultation. There are no plans to consult any further. We have conducted the public consultation. The Government’s position on this question was categorically not predetermined. The Government did not have a fixed view of the matter during the consultation and took their decision quickly but only after carefully considering all the consultation responses.

[Valerie Vaz]

Will the Minister give way?

[Chris Philp]

I do not want to test colleagues’ patience.

[Valerie Vaz]

It is important.

[Chris Philp]

We have discussed it extensively already.

We very carefully considered all the responses, and only after considering them very carefully was a decision reached. In terms of local democratic consent, this transfer was possible only following a request by the Mayor of the West Midlands, who has by far the largest democratic mandate of any politician in the west midlands. On that basis, Sir Graham, I commend this order to the Committee.

Question put and agreed to.

Resolved,

That the Committee has considered the draft West Midlands Combined Authority (Transfer of Police and Crime Commissioner Functions) Order 2024.

Oral Answers to Questions

Valerie Vaz Excerpts

Monday 27th November 2023 Commons Chamber

[James Cleverly]

The Rwanda scheme is an extremely important part of our basket of responses. I will do everything to ensure that we drive down small-boat arrivals: that is the promise we have made to the British people, and that is the commitment I will deliver.

[Valerie Vaz (Walsall South) (Lab)]

One of the ways of dealing with illegal migration is to look at the number of cases. Can the Home Secretary say how many legacy backlog cases there are—if they have yet been triaged—and how many of those result from illegal migration?

[James Cleverly]

The historic backlog has been reduced by 65%. It has fallen by more than 59,000 cases since the end of November 2022. We have recruited 2,500 asylum decision makers, and we have increased tenfold the pace at which these decisions are made.

Draft Special Immigration Appeals Commission (Procedure) (Amendment) Rules 2023

Valerie Vaz Excerpts

Wednesday 1st March 2023 General Committees

[Robert Jenrick]

Happy St David’s Day to you, Sir Robert, and the other Members present.

I will answer some of the questions that hon. Members asked. I am grateful to the Opposition for their support for these important measures. The Government view British citizenship as a privilege that, in the most extreme circumstances, can be revoked where individuals have chosen to take a course of action that poses a grave threat to national security. The hon. Member for Aberavon can be assured that the Home Secretary—and, I suspect, her successors—will take that duty extremely seriously and apply it only in cases that command broad support. It is right that there is appropriate judicial oversight, and that is the purpose of this statutory instrument.

As the hon. Gentleman says, this measure will ensure that a highly experienced judge will hear the case prior to any steps being taken by the Home Secretary; that judge will decide whether it is obviously flawed, to prevent any cases that do not meet the evidential bar from proceeding. It is right that that should happen, because this is a very significant step.

We do not believe that further steps are required before we can move forward and begin the implementation and operationalisation of the process. The first applications will flow in time; I do not have a particular date because that is not the nature of this case load. If he looks back on recent years, the hon. Gentleman will see that the numbers are highly sporadic. They depend on events in international affairs. Particular conflicts have sparked more proposals to the Home Secretary, and there have been periods when there have been fewer applications.

Home Secretaries very rarely bring such matters forward themselves. Most cases come to the Home Secretary from the security services, which have specific intelligence about individuals and ask the Home Secretary to consider it and act as swiftly as possible. This Home Secretary, like others, will of course consider it in due course.

[Valerie Vaz (Walsall South) (Lab)]

Is the Minister confident that there are sufficient safeguards to ensure that the security services have the right person?

[Robert Jenrick]

I am confident. It is the duty of the Home Secretary of the day to read the evidence that is presented to him or her by the security services, consider it carefully, ask appropriate questions, probe that work, and then make a decision. The purpose of this instrument is to provide a further check to that important decision. It ensures that an experienced judge hears the evidence, either in public or in private. That is ultimately a decision for the judge, depending on the evidence presented. It may be a mixture of the two, given that some evidence clearly cannot be heard in open court. It will ultimately be for the Home Secretary to decide to proceed.

[Valerie Vaz]

Obviously, there is a turnaround time of 14 days. Is the Minister confident that there are sufficient judges? Are more going to be appointed?

[Robert Jenrick]

I have not heard any suggestion that there are insufficient judges. This type of case would be heard by the most experienced judges in SIAC, as the right hon. Lady would expect, given that these are some of the most complex cases that will ever come before them.

Oral Answers to Questions

Valerie Vaz Excerpts

Monday 6th February 2023 Commons Chamber

[Chris Philp]

Yes, I entirely agree. I thank my hon. Friend for drawing this issue to my attention a few weeks ago. We are looking to consult in the very near future to make sure that the law prohibits dangerous weapons where necessary.

[Valerie Vaz (Walsall South) (Lab)]

A man was stabbed to death outside Asda in Walsall town centre, and an 18-year-old was stabbed to death in Cook Street, Darlaston. What discussions has the Home Secretary had with the new chief constable about reducing serious violent crime in Walsall?

[Suella Braverman]

Violent crime is devastating, which is why we need to get knives and other offensive weapons off our streets. I am pleased with the targeted interventions made through violence reduction units, hotspot policing and, of course, increased police resources, which are all working towards a reduction in knife crime and violent crime.

Police Conduct and David Carrick

Valerie Vaz Excerpts

Tuesday 17th January 2023 Commons Chamber

[Suella Braverman]

It is important to note that David Carrick’s initial vetting to join the Metropolitan police took place in 2001, prior to the introduction of national standards on vetting, and prior to the regime that has been in place since 2017, which was introduced to ensure consistency in decision making. My hon. Friend rightly expresses frustration with the situation, and I agree. It is incredibly frustrating to be here yet again after another tragedy. But I would just gently push back. I have confidence in Sir Mark Rowley. He joined the leadership of the Met recently, and he has not hesitated in accepting the enormity of the problems that the Met police currently face. He has presented a plan and is already taking tangible action to deliver on it. He understands that there is a problem with confidence in the Met police, and challenges and problems with standards and performance. He is honest and frank about those challenges and does not shy away from fixing them.

[Valerie Vaz (Walsall South) (Lab)]

Who will be conducting the internal review, when will it report, and will the Home Secretary ensure that previous Metropolitan Police Commissioners will also give evidence to it?

[Suella Braverman]

The review will be carried out in a comprehensive and extensive way to command confidence among police officers, members of the public and other stakeholders. I want it to report swiftly. I am wary of having more reviews, reports and inquiries; we need action. My impression is that there is a real problem with the process. I need to identify exactly what needs fixing and thereafter we can take swift action.

Economic Crime and Corporate Transparency Bill

Valerie Vaz Excerpts

2nd reading
Thursday 13th October 2022 Commons Chamber

[Valerie Vaz (Walsall South) (Lab)]

It is a pleasure to follow the hon. Member for Thirsk and Malton (Kevin Hollinrake), and I will pay tribute to him later. It is hard to be here on a Thursday without thinking of the late David Amess and remembering how he always used to come into business questions with a smile on his face. It has been a year, but it does not feel like a year; it has gone so quickly. We remember both David and Jo Cox. It is a very sad time.

I welcome the Minister to his position. I know that he has a lot of work to do. He is a talented author, and I bet he wishes he was reading his books, rather than the Bill. This is a wide-ranging Bill, and the main reforms are to Companies House. I am quite surprised that two Departments are covering this. It is a huge Bill, with six parts, 162 clauses and eight schedules. It is impossible to go through the whole Bill, but I have looked at certain sections of it, and it makes big reforms. I hope that this will all be teased out in Committee, and I want to highlight a few areas. I welcome what my right hon. Friend the Member for Normanton, Pontefract and Castleford (Yvette Cooper) said: we welcome the Bill, but with reservations.

Reading the words “Companies House” took me back to when I started working as an articled clerk. I had to go down to Companies House, which was on Old Street then, and look through the microfiches of all the companies; that was the work we did at that time. Having qualified as a lawyer and worked in the Treasury Solicitor’s Department, I saw civil servants when they had the tools and the resources to go after companies, and they did that in the public interest—they understood those words, which they picked up over the years by osmosis and the way that departments worked, and they used to wind up companies in the public interest. The hon. Member for Thirsk and Malton mentioned going after directors and having that strict liability. There is the Company Directors Disqualification Act 1986, but I do not think it is used often, and certainly not to wind up companies in the public interest. I hope the Department will look at that, but that requires resources, and by the time I had left the Treasury Solicitor’s Department, it had been outsourced to other companies.

I am not sure that there is a reference to this in the Bill, but it is possible to buy companies off the shelf and then transfer them to new ownership. What drew me to this issue, as well as my previous experience, is that a couple of constituents contacted me to say that their home address was being used as the registered address of a company, which they were getting mail for, and they could do nothing about it. They got in touch with Companies House. At the time, the Minister wrote a letter to say that there would be a new Bill and reforms, but these people were having to correct the information themselves and provide evidence that they lived at that address—they were the victims, but they had to rectify the register. I hope the Minister will confirm that these new powers will cover that situation, so that the onus will not fall on the victims to rectify the register, and that the registrar will deal with this under the ID verification scheme. There are some concerns about that new scheme. The regulations are still to be made, and it is not clear on the face of the Bill what the process will be and what will count as acceptable evidence; there is concern that it will just be biometrics.

The second case I want to come to is one that I have had three emails and lots of information about, and it is that of a constituent who I will refer to as Mr B—not because that is an expletive deleted or what I feel about him, but because that is his initial. He was going round setting up companies to defraud elderly people, and he was using false addresses. Even now, there are 16 companies registered to Mr B, of which five are active, and they are renewable energy companies. He is not only doing it here; apparently, he has a database of companies around the world—he has victims in India, the USA and Canada. My constituent went to the police and was told to go to Action Fraud, which told her to go to the National Fraud Intelligence Bureau, and nothing has been done. Will the Minister meet me to discuss that case? Can he confirm whether the new verification scheme will stop that?

The dynamic duo, my right hon. Friend the Member for Barking (Dame Margaret Hodge) and the hon. Member for Thirsk and Malton—what would we do without them?—both mentioned that funding is an issue. We may give Companies House powers, but it must have the tools to finish the job. It is more than just snagging. It only costs £12 to set up a company. In France it is £50, and in Germany it is £100. The APPGs chaired by this dynamic duo who are keeping us safe have both suggested a cost of £50, but as the hon. Member for Glasgow Central (Alison Thewliss) said, the Treasury Committee has suggested that it should be in the region of £100. At today’s rate, someone could set up eight companies—why would they want to?—for £100. If it would help with the costs of verification, the Government should look at the higher figure of £100, because the Treasury Committee has taken evidence on that. We know that over half a million companies are created each year. Transparency International UK found that, as the hon. Member for Strangford (Jim Shannon) mentioned, between 2000 and 2019 nearly £137 billion was lost in money laundering and corruption.

That leads me to my next concern, which is the method of identity verification. There seem to be two routes mentioned in the Bill—Companies House or an authorised corporate service provider. Again, there is nothing in the Bill about how this will be set up. I know there will be secondary legislation, but I think the House would like to see some of the processes and what exactly that will entail because I have a few questions. What are the transactional costs of using an authorised provider as compared with Companies House? Are we just outsourcing this process and will such providers be accountable to the registrar at Companies House? How many authorised corporate service providers will there be, because this Bill is quite rightly about corporate transparency?

This brings me to the register of overseas entities, which is operational, and as of 11 October 1,605 have registered. I logged on to the register, and the House of Commons Library helpfully took me through the process. I searched through the register and, lo and behold, companies with opaque beneficial owners can still register. I will mention just one: Merakino Ltd, which is registered in Jersey. When I clicked on the beneficial tab, it came up with East Fiduciary AG, with the registered office in Switzerland, and the only person named is the agent in the UK supervised by His Majesty’s Revenue and Customs. A company expert has said that about 20% of registrations on that register have a beneficial owner that is a legal entity, not a human being, which shows, sadly, that the register is not working. I hope the Minister will look at this, and say whether he considers that a register in which for 20% of the entries the entity is a company is working.

I, too, agree with other colleagues who have said that this is a missed opportunity, because I feel that the Government have failed to close a huge gap that in effect amounts to economic crime against the British people. I know there will be mumbles about this not being the right vehicle and so on, but I think closure of the non-dom status is a vital area in fraud and in ensuring that money owed to the British people stays here. Those who choose to live, use our services and vote here do not pay their taxes on overseas income, and as my hon. Friend the shadow Chancellor has pointed out, this would raise £3.2 billion a year.

Sadly, in conclusion, I have several questions for the Minister. Will he consider raising the registration fee, as suggested by the Treasury Committee and the APPGs, in line with other countries? Will he look at that, and at an open and robust process for identity verification? Will he look again at closing the loopholes in the overseas register? Will our constituents be safeguarded from the use of their own home addresses? Will Mr B, using fake companies to defraud constituents, be exposed, caught and penalised? Looking through clause 96, one of my concerns is that the registrar can apply civil penalties, but using a civil burden of proof—the burden of proof is “beyond reasonable doubt”, but the penalties are civil ones—so does the Minister, the Department or the Government know how many people will be caught by this, because it is quite a high bar? Our constituents are working hard and they pay their taxes, mostly through pay-as-you-earn, and it is right that we close loopholes and protect them against fraud so that we can continue with the entrepreneurial spirit this country is very good at.

Remote Observation and Recording (Courts and Tribunals) Regulations 2022

Valerie Vaz Excerpts

Tuesday 19th July 2022 General Committees

[Miss Dines]

Those who apply for remote access would need to apply before the hearing in the normal way to ask for permission and a link would be sent. It is certainly very distinct from broadcasting.

[Valerie Vaz (Walsall South) (Lab)]

If I heard the Minister correctly, she said “name and address”, but the regulations state “name and email address”. I would say that it is important for someone to give their address. Who will do due diligence on who applies? I know that the admin staff at the court—if there are any left—are overworked, so will there be any due diligence on the email addresses, which could be out of the jurisdiction?

[Miss Dines]

In the usual way, there is a prior application. Each application is considered properly by the court and the judiciary. It is not the case that there will be a blanket allowing of everyone who applies to have that observation. However, the right hon. Lady is right: it is “name and email address”, and there will be sufficient time for proper research to look into that. I am sure that, as time goes on, due diligence will be put in place. Extra funding has been made available to facilitate that, and it is open to the judge, as in the normal situation, to refuse any application if there is uncertainty.

--- Later in debate ---

[Miss Dines]

It is little different from what would happen under the old system, where people present themselves at court and try to get in the public gallery. There might be a limit of 20, 30 or 50 people, depending on the size of the court. There needs to be a prior application so that the court system would not be surprised by it, and there would be sufficient time. Funds are being set aside to implement it. If there is an unusual administrative burden, it is open to the court, as it always has been, to refuse an application or physical entry. It is exactly the same principle, and there will be time for that to be considered. I am grateful for the intervention, but I will move on.

Importantly, the regulations ensure that the powers to admit remote observers may be used in jurisdictions that were previously not within the scope of the Coronavirus Act, such as the Court of Protection, coroner’s proceedings, and all tribunals outside the unified system, such as employment tribunals. Making the legislation permanent and expanding it in two important ways will strengthen open justice and the transparency and accessibility of our justice system. It supports the recommendations of the Cairncross review on the future of journalism, and report by the Digital, Culture, Media and Sport Committee in November 2020 on the same topic, by offering modern digital solutions to facilitate journalists’ access to court. It will improve court access for members of the public who are perhaps less physically able to attend court hearings and buildings to observe the proceedings, as well as those who might feel intimidated or uncomfortable in a physical public gallery.

Public galleries will continue to be available in our courtrooms, as they are now. The enabling provisions, new sections 85A and 85B of the Courts Act 2003, inserted by the Police, Crime, Sentencing and Courts Act, contain the necessary safeguards to ensure that remote observers and participants in a hearing cannot make an unauthorised recording or transmission of the proceedings. Transgressors would be subject on conviction to a £1,000 fine or, if found in contempt of court, they would face up to two years in prison. Those safeguards replicate in a digital sense existing prohibitions that have long applied to traditional courtrooms.

It is important to note that the provisions retain at their heart the principle of judicial discretion. It will be for judges, magistrates, coroners and tribunal panel members to decide on a case-by-case basis whether to provide transmissions of proceedings to members of the public.

[Valerie Vaz]

I thank the Minister for giving way. We understand that this is her first outing and we wish her well. It is right to explain what judges need to take into account, as set out in regulation 4. Given the policy behind the regulation, will there be a practice direction, and will she encourage the Lord Chancellor to issue a practice direction so that there is consistency across all the courts and tribunals?

[Miss Dines]

The Lord Chief Justice and Senior President of Tribunals have issued joint guidance already on how the remote observation should be facilitated across our courts and tribunals. The President of the Queen’s Bench Division has issued specific guidance in relation to criminal proceedings. The Chief Coroner has issued guidance for coroners courts, which are very different, of course. Her Majesty’s Courts and Tribunals Service has issued guidance to all its staff on how to implement the regulations, and its gov.uk pages have been updated so that the general public and media may better understand the regulations.

The policy of allowing remote observers at court and tribunal hearings is often confused with the use of remote hearings more generally. To be clear, how a hearing is to be heard—in-person, remote or hybrid—is a matter for the judge, magistrate, coroner or tribunal panel to decide on a case-by-case basis. They are best placed to decide in each case how a hearing is to be heard, whether it should be in public or private, and whether remote observation is permissible.

I should also make it clear that the legislation does not allow indiscriminate broadcasting. It will only allow the transmission of proceedings to made either to individuals who have identified themselves to the court or to designated live-streaming premises. The regulations prescribe that, when deciding to allow remote observation, the court must be satisfied that that is in the interests of justice, and that doing so does not create an unreasonable administrative burden on judges and court staff. For example, judges will be under no obligation to allow transmissions to be made to remote observers during a traditional in-party hearing where a public gallery is available if the necessary technology or staff are not readily obtainable.

Finally, I said I would outline why it is appropriate to use the affirmative procedure for this instrument. I fully understand that the procedure should be used only with good reason, and the Government considered it to be appropriate so that the temporary and emergency coronavirus legislation which the regulations replace could be removed from the statute book as soon as possible. The slow progress of the Police, Crime Sentencing and Courts Act through Parliament necessitated the extension of those temporary powers beyond their original term.

It was also vital to enable this new remote observation framework expeditiously to resolve some known issues within the emergency Coronavirus Act powers. That will ensure that several important jurisdictions that were neglected in the previous legislation—notably the Court of Protection, coroners courts, and tribunals outside the unified structure, including employment tribunals—are now explicitly legislated for. Those jurisdictions may now allow remote observation proceedings safely and efficiently and within the appropriate safeguards in the new legislation.

As of June 2022, around 7,000 hearings a week rely on audio and video technology. The use of such technologies is an important component of our court recovery efforts, and remote observation helps to ensure that open justice is maintained.

--- Later in debate ---

[Valerie Vaz]

The Minister is being generous with her time. She mentions the interests of justice and transparency, so I wonder whether she has considered the publication of the names of remote observers at the time a direction is made. How will Parliament know how many people have applied for remote observer status? For example, who are these legal bloggers who are entitled to be part of youth court proceedings? Could she name one of them?

[Miss Dines]

The Department will consider the publication of names in due course. From my own experience, I can say that it is not usual, and the regulations bring in a way of observing digitally, continuing the system as it has evolved.

In relation to youth courts, there has always been and will continue to be applications in the public interest for various observers to observe. They may be relatively small in number—I do not have the numbers to hand—but it is not perceived to be in any way an opening up or broadcasting of any proceedings that are inappropriate. We must not forget that the discretion remains with the trial judge or head of tribunal who is intimately experienced with that particular matter.

These remote observation regulations ensure that all our courts and tribunals can rely on audio and video technology to hear cases wherever it is determined to be in the interests of justice to do so. Given the considerations I have mentioned, the Government consider the use of affirmative procedures appropriate. In this instance, it has ensured that our courts and tribunals have an expanded, permanent and reliable legislative framework that more closely fits its needs during a critical time as we work hard to deliver justice and recover from the negative impacts of the pandemic. This instrument will therefore support and strengthen the principle of open justice and increase the accessibility and transparency of our justice system as the Government seek to modernise it.

Foreign National Offender Removal Flights

Valerie Vaz Excerpts

Wednesday 18th May 2022 Commons Chamber

[Tom Pursglove]

It is interesting that Ministers are often challenged about our evidence base for wanting to deliver reforms through the new plan for immigration and the Nationality and Borders Act, because the evidence that my hon. Friend points to—she raises these issues consistently—speaks precisely to why the change is necessary and why we are getting on with operationalising the measures in the Act. That work is happening at pace, and we will not waste a moment in bringing that work to fruition.

My hon. Friend is right to recognise the challenges that the current situation is presenting, and I am conscious of the impacts on Dover in particular. She does a tremendous job in raising them with Ministers, and I am keen that we continue that dialogue.

[Valerie Vaz (Walsall South) (Lab)]

I have written to, I think, my third Minister about the case of a person who stabbed a constituent of mine—he wanted to murder her—and is still in the country. If I write to the Minister, will he undertake to look at the case again and ensure that that person is deported so that my constituent can live in peace?

[Tom Pursglove]

I am grateful to the hon. Member for raising that sensitive issue so constructively. If she shares the details with me, I will gladly look at it. Again, I am determined that the requirements of the Act are upheld, and we as a Government are determined that those with no right to be here should leave our country without delay. Of course, those who have committed serious crimes and are eligible for deportation under the Act should be deported.

Refugees from Ukraine

Valerie Vaz Excerpts

Wednesday 16th March 2022 Commons Chamber

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Eleanor Laing)]

I am extremely grateful to the hon. Gentleman for his point of order. I am happy to give him a direct answer. First, I agree with him entirely. It was noted earlier this afternoon that although we were having an extremely important and topical debate about Ukrainian refugees, the Benches were sparsely occupied. It is important to note—the hon. Gentleman put this very well—that in another room at that very moment, there were four Ukrainian Members of Parliament, who are most welcome here. Many colleagues, rather than being in the Chamber, had gone to that meeting, which I gather was extremely fruitful.

[Valerie Vaz (Walsall South) (Lab)]

Further to that point of order, Madam Deputy Speaker—

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Eleanor Laing)]

I will not take any further points of order, as it is 3.30 pm. I hand the Chamber to Mr Speaker.

Tier 5 Religious Worker Visas

Valerie Vaz Excerpts

Thursday 4th July 2019 Westminster Hall

[Ged Killen (Rutherglen and Hamilton West) (Lab/Co-op)]

It is a pleasure to see you in the Chair, Mr Gapes. I thank the hon. Member for Glasgow East (David Linden) for securing the debate and the Backbench Business Committee for granting time for it. The issue is of great concern to parishes in my constituency, as it is in others, not least because many Catholic parishes rely on tier 5 religious worker visas to bring priests to the UK on supply placements, which allows cover for illness, retreats, outings and, of course, much needed holidays. The hon. Gentleman has covered many of the salient points and concerns in his remarks, so I intend to be brief.

I am disappointed not to see the Minister for Immigration, the right hon. Member for Romsey and Southampton North (Caroline Nokes), here, but I am sure that the Minister who is here will convey to her our concerns. I simply ask the Minister this: where is the evidence that the changes were necessary? Where is the evidence that large numbers of people were coming to the UK on tier 5 religious worker visas for another purpose? Where is the evidence that ministers of religion are coming in large numbers to the UK to preach, despite not having the English language skills necessary to do so? Is it not a matter for the parish to determine whether a priest or a minister has the appropriate level of English to preach to their congregation? The alternative in many cases is that services will simply not go ahead at all, and we all know the impact that can have when people, many of them elderly or at risk of social isolation and loneliness, lose out on the opportunity to come together as a community to worship, to support one another, and to seek spiritual and practical help.

[Valerie Vaz (Walsall South) (Lab)]

My constituents, particularly those at the Sikh gurdwara, rely on tier 5 for religious workers to come in. They do not want the tier 2 so that their religious workers can be here a long time, and neither do they want to stay indefinitely. It really is a short-term issue and religious workers are being absolutely excluded. In my constituency they have already spent more than £1,000, having been refused a visa while the change of policy went through. Does my hon. Friend agree that we need something in the interim, a bit like the old tier 5, so that short-term religious workers can come in and read from the holy book, which is what they need to do? They are not lecturers or cultural exchange people; they are religious workers who do not want to stay here for a long time.

[Ged Killen]

I thank my hon. Friend for her intervention, and I absolutely agree. Another senseless decision seems to be based once again on the ideology of the Conservative party, rather than on any evidence. The Catholic Church in Scotland is in no doubt whatever that the changes will mean fewer priests will be able to come to Scotland to support local parishes. Perhaps the Minister can tell us, if he is aware, what assessment has been made of the likely impact of the changes. How many people have been refused under the new system who would have been granted a visa under the old one? Is the Home Office aware of how many other people are likely to be refused entry at a later date?

We all have casework that demonstrates how often the Home Office gets decisions wrong. My hon. Friend the Member for Newcastle upon Tyne Central (Chi Onwurah) raised in a debate in this place just a few weeks ago concerns revealed in the Financial Times that the Home Office is using algorithms to process visa applications. Many of my constituents have had applications inexplicably refused, usually because of Home Office errors, which were later overturned following an intervention from my office. As the hon. Member for Glasgow East said earlier, we do not want to get into the wider debate, but I will mention the recent example of my constituent Sabir Zazai, the chief executive of the Scottish Refugee Council. He was being honoured by Glasgow University for 20 years of remarkable contribution to civil society, but his father almost missed out on going to the graduation ceremony, where he was to receive his honorary doctorate, because he was refused a visit visa. That is exactly the type of case that speaks to the heart of the issue that we are talking about today, although we are talking about a different tier of visas.

--- Later in debate ---

[John Howell]

I thank the right hon. Lady for her intervention, but I do not see the two as different; I see them as all part of the same problem. I will go back to my comments on the Anglican Church.

[Valerie Vaz]

The hon. Gentleman is being generous with his time in allowing us to intervene. I am a Roman Catholic, but I speak on behalf not just of that Church but of the religion directly affected by the changes, which is the Sikh religion. He is right when he talks about the Church of England, but that is exactly it: it is the Church of England; many of the others are international religions and therefore need religious workers to come here. More to the point, does he not agree with having an interchange of people of different faiths coming to this country, whether of the Catholic Church or of any other religion? Does it not mean that we are able to look beyond our shores, therefore helping international relations, and not only understanding each of our own religions here but understanding them internationally?

[John Howell]

I am happy to refer to the Church of England as part of the Anglican Communion, which is a worldwide organisation that exists in so many countries that one might have thought that if there were a problem, it too would experience exactly the same problem, because there are exchanges of people between different countries, dioceses and parishes.

I will take my glasses off to read what Christian Concern said, because it is in quite small print. It states that

“it is possible to enter the UK as a ‘business visitor’ to undertake some preaching…provided the person’s base is abroad”.

That is the basis on which the exchange of Anglican personnel takes place; it is not that the Anglicans do not invite colleagues from the Anglican Communion to come over to preach in their churches. I have been to many services at which the preacher has come from a country overseas. We need to ensure that we do not get two things confused: the restrictions on the priesthood, which I know exist, for whatever reason; and the changes to the immigration system.

Last, I mention my close contacts with the Jewish community. I appreciate, from conversations beforehand with the hon. Member for Glasgow East, that his view is that the Jewish community in Scotland has similar problems. However, I asked my Jewish colleagues exactly where the problem was likely to occur in the Jewish community, and most if not all of those I questioned did not see this as a problem for them. Again, we have to go back to this being a much more complex question than simply one of visas.

I offer those reasons up as a view on the issue and to widen the debate.

--- Later in debate ---

[Valerie Vaz (Walsall South) (Lab)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Gapes. I had not intended to speak, so thank you for giving me the time to do so. I will be very brief and ask the Minister just a few questions.

As I mentioned earlier, I have a gurdwara in my constituency that has found it difficult to bring priests in. The point about the tier 5 visa is that such priests read from the holy book, which is not in English, so they are required to speak the Sikh language—the Punjabi language. The priests want to be here for only a short time. Having heard everything that hon. Members have said, would the Minister consider interim measures? Otherwise, can he say how I can bring in the priests? They have been refused twice, and there is a new system in place. How is it possible for them to come here? I have been told by those at the gurdwara that they are desperate to get them in. No other member of the congregation can perform the function that the priests can undertake.

Could the Minister also say what is happening to the licence system? Is it currently suspended? Many gurdwaras and other religious places apply under a licence, under which there are checks and balances to ensure that they can bring in their religious workers. What is happening to that system? Finally, could the Minister arrange for the Minister for Immigration to meet hon. Members as soon as possible to discuss our individual cases?

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Hurd]

I completely understand that point, which was raised earlier. The Government’s position is that it is important that the same rules apply to all, in the interests of fairness, hence the test centre requirements. The hon. Gentleman will be aware that exemptions exist where applicants have been awarded a recognised degree.

As the hon. Gentleman knows, the root of the changes introduced in January 2019 was the June 2018 Ministry of Housing, Communities and Local Government consultation on the integrated communities strategy. The Green Paper set out the Government’s intention to strengthen English language skills by supporting UK residents and strengthening requirements for those who wish to come here. The rationale behind that approach is that ministers of religion play a visible role in our religious institutions and must therefore be able to integrate with the wider communities in which they live and serve, rather than only being able to speak to their congregations.

[Valerie Vaz]

The Minister is doing an excellent job—he is an excellent Minister; I say that with sincerity—and he has been very helpful so far, but he is confusing social cohesion and religion. I made the point that the Sikh holy book is not in English. The priests who are required to come over have to read it in their language.

[Mr Hurd]

I absolutely understand that point. On the hon. Lady’s direct question on the specific problem of her constituent, while I obviously do not know the individual case, one of the three visa entry routes may well be relevant for the role that she described, not least the visitor visa route. With respect, she should engage on that directly with officials, which I can help to facilitate.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Hurd]

I am sure that the Immigration Minister, who will read the record of this debate closely, will want to reflect on that.

[Valerie Vaz]

The Minister has not touched on the issue of licences, which I raised. He mentioned that there was a small but growing problem about misuse. The whole point about the licensing system is that there were checks and balances, and that places of religion were allowed to bring their workers in under these licences, which are constantly monitored by the Home Office. What is happening to that system? Is it completely gone? Is the Minister not aware that the licensing system prevented the abuse?

[Mr Hurd]

Either the Immigration Minister or I will have to write to the hon. Lady on that point. I am simply stating that one of the drivers for the cooling-off period was a sense that people were effectively here on a permanent basis, which was not the intention of the original visa policy.

We have heard a lot about those who come to the UK on a temporary basis, perhaps to cover for a minister of religion while he or she is on holiday. To be clear, the Government absolutely recognise that that is a legitimate activity. We certainly have no wish to leave any communities bereft of a spiritual leader while the normal incumbent has a holiday or is otherwise absent.

Remarks were made, which I thought were wildly off target, suggesting that we are targeting God or penalising the Catholic community, as if we were targeting Christian communities. These changes do not mean that we are targeting any particular group. All faiths are treated equally. Of course, we do not want communities to be bereft of spiritual leaders while the incumbent has a holiday or is otherwise absent.

That is precisely why the immigration rules for visitors specifically refer to those coming for religious purposes. Among the permitted activities for those coming on a visit visa, or for a visit without a visa if they are a relevant national, the rules state:

“Religious workers may visit the UK to preach or do pastoral work”.

This provides an opportunity for ministers of religion to officiate at a wedding or funeral, for example, and even to conduct a weekly service on an adhoc basis.

The visit rules rightly do not permit a Minister of religion to undertake paid work. If the intention is to provide cover for a holiday incumbent on a prolonged basis, which involves remuneration, we believe that the visiting Minister should have a work visa. That position is no different for a locum doctor providing cover for a GP or a supply teacher in a school, or anyone else coming to the UK on a temporary basis to provide cover for a full-time worker.

Anyone in that situation does require a tier 2 visa, as we have elaborated. It is right that those rules apply in the normal way to ministers of religion, not least because tier 2 contains an English language requirement. This ensures that visiting ministers of religion have the required level of English reflecting the important role that faith leaders play in ensuring community cohesion.