Oral Answers to Questions

Toby Perkins Excerpts

Thursday 2nd February 2012 Commons Chamber

[Mr Prisk]

Not yet, but soon.

[Toby Perkins (Chesterfield) (Lab)]

The Minister was right to describe the hon. Member for Newton Abbot (Anne Marie Morris) as a great champion of micro-businesses. Last week she called for the Government to introduce a VAT cut to 5% on construction, which is part of our five-point plan.

The truth is that the Government are failing Britain’s small businesses. They have failed to live up to expectations on regulation, they have failed to persuade the banks to lend to small businesses, and they have failed to get growth into our economy. Why does the Minister keep pretending that small businesses think his policies are working when it is so clear that they are not?

[Mr Prisk]

There are substantially more small businesses now than there were when we came to office, and they have confidence in what we are doing. We need to support and encourage them, and we will do that. I do not accept the hon. Gentleman’s wholly negative analysis.

Self-Employment

Toby Perkins Excerpts

Tuesday 24th January 2012 Westminster Hall

[Richard Harrington (Watford) (Con)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mrs Riordan, and I am pleased to see so many hon. Members present, particularly the Minister for Further Education, Skills and Lifelong Learning and the shadow Minister, the hon. Member for Chesterfield (Toby Perkins).

This debate came about as a result of a conversation between me and my hon. Friend the Member for Wyre Forest (Mark Garnier), who is sitting next to me, about people in this country setting up their own businesses. We reached the conclusion that not enough people do so. Everybody knows the benefits of people setting up their own businesses, but there is a certain culture against self-employment and business in this country, notwithstanding everything that this and the previous Government have tried to do. Politicians brand the terms “entrepreneur,” “small and medium-sized enterprises” and similar without really understanding what they are about. My hon. Friend and I have, therefore, decided to focus the debate on how Governments can change attitudes.

Like so many people of my generation, I was the first member of my family ever to go to university. Few people at that time had the idea of setting up their own business, and I do not think that much has changed. I have two sons, one in his late teens and the other in his early 20s, and from what I have observed of my family life, as well as that of my sons’ friends and during my constituency duty of visiting schools—some very good, others not so good—and further education colleges, there is very little idea, culture or yearning among people, from the most academically gifted to the least so, to set up their own business. However, I commend people such as my hon. Friend the Member for Newton Abbot (Anne Marie Morris), whom I am pleased to see and who is co-chair of the all-party group on micro-businesses. Others have also tried very hard in the main Chamber, as well as elsewhere in the Palace of Westminster and throughout the country, to help the cause of small business. The Government themselves have also made a lot of effort, and I do not feel that it would be right for me to criticise them.

This debate will be divided into two halves. I will deal with social, cultural and educational barriers, and what I think the Government might do about them. My hon. Friend the Member for Wyre Forest will then deal with taxation, regulation and other more direct governmental aspects. It is also nice to see so many other hon. Members present who want to take part.

On the face of it, self-employment seems to be going well. Recent figures show that 300,000 people have become self-employed in the past year, which means that they are registered with Her Majesty’s Revenue and Customs as being self-employed, but I do not think that that necessarily means that they have set up their own business. Some of them will, legitimately, have taken on part-time functions that classify as self-employment. I do not want to get into a political debate about whether that is self-employment or not, or whether the recession is to blame, because I want to focus on a culture that will give ambitious young people the desire to set up their own business.

The education system is the most important opinion-former for young people, and many aspects of it are encouraging. Like many other hon. Members, I have Young Enterprise groups in my constituency. We have Hertfordshire Young Enterprise in Watford, and I have seen many teams of young people setting up little businesses at school. They are largely supported by voluntary contributions from local businesses and they get mentors. In fact, only last Saturday, there was a display of the best teams at the Harlequin centre in Watford, which is well known to some Members present and to those more illustrious alumnae of the better Watford girls school—without naming names—whom I am also pleased to see present. It is interesting to see that these teams set up real businesses, producing bracelets, handbooks and all sorts of things. Some of the products make them a bit of money, and it is good to see local businesspeople helping them. This, however, is only useful if it gives those young people a desire to say that, when they graduate—assuming that they want to go to university; I am not saying that that is necessarily the most important thing—they want to set up a business, but I do not find that to be the case.

I recently visited Watford grammar school for boys, which is one of the better schools in the country— 30 boys are going to Oxford or Cambridge this year. After I finish my talk to the sixth form, I always ask them what they want to do after university—most of them go to university, but I would ask a similar question at a school where not so many pupils do so. When I ask how many want to be lawyers, accountants or involved in advertising or the media, many hands go up, but when I ask who wants to set up their own business, very few want to do so, including those who have taken part in the education system’s successful schemes.

[Toby Perkins (Chesterfield) (Lab)]

The hon. Gentleman is making an important case for the role that education can play. Another part of getting young people excited about running their own business is the experience of those who do so at the moment. Today’s Financial Times includes an article on an Aviva report that involved interviewing 500 owners of SMEs for its research. A quarter of them said that they were considering returning to work as an employee, because of how difficult it is at the moment to run a small business. When people who actually run their own business find it that difficult, will it not be more difficult to persuade young people to do so?

[Richard Harrington]

The shadow Minister makes a valid point. I read that article in the Financial Times online—if I cannot sleep at 3 o’clock in the morning, I find that that is the best way to get back to sleep. It focused on the general problems of the economy and how much more difficult it is for people who are self-employed and have their own business. Some of those people look towards employment as an answer, and I do not disagree with anything that was said. I am sure that some people want to go back to the comparative security of employment, but I do not think that that changes my main argument. People becoming self-employed and setting up their own businesses is one of the most important things for this country to expand the economy.

--- Later in debate ---

[Richard Harrington]

That is an exceptionally good point, and I am sorry that my hon. Friend, like me, in later life has had to do the job that we are doing now instead of being in business. However, I know that he, like me, benefited greatly from his time in business. His serious point was well made. The alternative of salaried employment for a company is not secure either, and many people lose their jobs. My generation may be the last one that believed that the professions provided a job for life. There is a risk element now.

I return to my university college, which I hope the Minister will immediately decide should be located in Watford, because that is the obvious place for it. Watford is a good example for small businesses. It used to depend on two heavy industries—printing and lorries—but it now has more than 1,600 small businesses, and the employment background is small business, so Watford would be a suitable place for the college. It would be an ideal location because of being well known internationally as a centre for commerce, culture, intellect and so on.

My serious point is that the Government, with all the excellent measures that they are taking, should consider introducing a degree on setting up a business—obviously, that is not what it would be called—helped by local business people who would agree to take part for perhaps two or three days a week. Students could set up real businesses that would go on to provide real employment for people. That is where academia should meet the practicality of setting up a business.

[Toby Perkins]

rose—

[Richard Harrington]

I will happily give way to the hon. Gentleman, but my hon. Friend the Member for Maidstone and The Weald (Mrs Grant) rose first.

[Richard Harrington]

I agree with my hon. Friend, and my hon. Friend the Member for Wyre Forest will speak about that.

[Toby Perkins]

I want to explore the hon. Gentleman’s idea. He has rightly identified that many successful entrepreneurs with great business careers were not academically inclined, and perhaps those who have that motivation and spark do not sit well with long periods of study. How does he square that argument with his idea that people should undertake three or four years of study to set up a small business, when many of the best small business people have been instinctively brilliant rather than studiously and academically brilliant?

[Richard Harrington]

I have to accept the logic of that point. Not everyone who wants to go into business would go to the sort of college that I am proposing. Many people would start businesses as happens now. Many people who have been in employment may decide when they become a bit older that that is for them. There are different routes to the same objective. However, I believe that an all-star college with teaching by people such as Sir Richard Branson and senior politicians and business people—people who have been in business—would show that the Government are serious, and that the status of such a course is as good as those at Oxford, Cambridge and so on. It is wrong for people of my age to use the expressions of younger people, but that would show that it is cool to set up a business, and just as good as anything else. In addition to the many other things that the Government do, they could help with that, and it would not cost too much money.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mark Garnier]

I agree. Our complex tax code is full of all sorts of unintended consequences exactly like the one that my hon. Friend mentioned. It is ridiculous having a tax that means businesses going above £73,000 will have to start charging their customers. That is a disincentive to growth in terms of going out and gathering business. If people stay below that threshold, it is a disincentive to employ more people.

[Toby Perkins]

The hon. Gentleman is talking about the difficulty with taxation faced by small firms. Will he support Opposition Members calling for a national insurance holiday for any micro-business with less than 10 employees that takes on a new member of staff?

[Mark Garnier]

A national insurance holiday? I think that we are already doing it. That is a policy of ours.

[Toby Perkins]

For micro-business.

[Mark Garnier]

I am sorry; the hon. Gentleman is talking about extending it to micro-businesses. Yes, all this has to be put into the mix of things that we need to look at. It is important to consider any way that we can help more micro-businesses.

FSB members say that our tax system is detrimental to their ability to make capital investments in their business, which again is another reason why people are being held back.

On a wider social point—sticking with tax complexity—it is worth noting that a complex tax system allows a huge range of opportunities for tax avoidance and tax evasion, which makes it extraordinarily complex for Her Majesty’s Revenue and Customs to collect tax and ensure that we avoid the tax gap, which is estimated at anything between £40 billion and more than £100 billion a year. The rest of us have to pay for that tax gap and lack of revenue through increased taxes.

Half of small businesses spend at least two hours every week complying with their tax responsibilities alone and for 10% of businesses, particularly small micro-businesses, that can take up to six hours per week—six hours when those businesses should be capturing new customers, developing new products and investing in their future.

Two thirds of businesses feel that they need professional help to complete their tax returns, which costs them on average an extra £3,000 a year. One third of them find that national insurance in its various forms is difficult to understand. Half of businesses find allowances difficult to get to grips with. Frankly, it is all far too complicated and too expensive in man hours and financial resource to administer.

Regulation is the second area of extreme unrest for micro-businesses. According to the World Economic Forum’s global competitiveness report, the UK is ranked 89th out of 139 for the burden that regulation places on businesses. Aside from the obvious problem of possibly deterring inward investment, the overburden of regulation, especially in the realm of employment law, is cited by businesses as a reason not to expand.

In a business survey in 2008—that was some time ago, but it gives a good idea of trends—a third of businesses thinking about expanding cited fear of regulation as a significant headwind to be faced in expansion and therefore a key factor in their decision. The same survey revealed that half of businesses planning to downsize or close rated regulatory burden as important in their decision to do so. The 2008 survey was undertaken in difficult trading conditions, but regulatory burden should not be a significant factor when businesses are struggling to stay alive in a difficult environment.

Possibly more worrying is the fact that in the 2009 business survey 34% of businesses that were no longer employers cited complying with legislation as a reason for no longer employing staff. This is madness.

--- Later in debate ---

[Toby Perkins (Chesterfield) (Lab)]

It is a great pleasure to speak under your chairmanship, Mr Streeter, even if only for 10 minutes. It has been an excellent debate and I congratulate the hon. Member for Watford (Richard Harrington) on obtaining it and on his speech.

Like some other hon. Members, I have run my own business—twice: the first time was at the back end of the last century, when I set up an IT recruitment firm; subsequently in 2005 I launched a rugby product business, Club Rugby, which I continued to run until I was elected. As someone who has been on that journey twice, I know very well the different motivations for heading towards self-employment. In my case, it was inspiration on one occasion and desperation on another. In fact, many great businesses have been created from fledgling inspirations caused by the desperation of those trying to feed a family and keep a roof over their heads in tough times. Certainly, some will still thrive in these most desperate of times. However, the fact that some will still come through, and that the strongest may still thrive and survive, is not a reason for the Government not to do everything in their power to support people in all walks of life and all parts of the country to take that first brave step and put their name above the door.

One of the lessons of the recent past is that we must create an environment that gives the greatest number of new business people an opportunity to be a successful business owner. Why would any Government not want to do that? Therefore I particularly welcome a debate in which the hon. Member for Watford expressed his frustration at what he sees as the unglamorous image of running a business in Britain today. Of course, he is right to say that we all—politicians, school teachers, careers advisers, business leaders, media figures and trade union leaders—have a responsibility to promote the vital importance of new start-ups and small businesses in creating the growth we need to get the economy moving again. For that reason I welcome television programmes such as “The Apprentice” and “Dragons’ Den”, which for all their flaws at least tend to get young people to see business in a sexier light.

[Justin Tomlinson (North Swindon) (Con)]

Will the hon. Gentleman give way?

[Toby Perkins]

I am afraid that there is not time, if I am going to leave time for the Minister.

“The Apprentice” in particular also has a welcome focus on the importance of sales techniques and ability, which is a vital and intrinsic part of business success, which the nation has neglected for too long, and which I want to promote through the Labour party’s policy review. I started my first job in sales at the age of 17. The old adage that until someone sells something in a business nothing happens has never been truer than it is today. As part of the Labour policy review programme Nigel Doughty, a tremendously successful business investor, is chairing our small business task force. Within that policy review process, he hosted a session on high-growth businesses. There were many contributors to that session from across the business spectrum, but one of the key defining facts revealed during it was that about 7% of all businesses will go on to become high-growth firms, irrespective of market sector or geographical location. The key to getting more high-growth firms coming out of the bottom of the funnel is to get more going into the top.

Of course, we have been here before. Starting in 1997, Labour’s new deal programme was the most successful back-to-work programme in British history. The self-employment programme was the most successful part of it. Some 70% of the people who started on it went into business, and 81% of those businesses were still trading three years later. Moreover, they were employing, on average, an extra 1.6 people each, meaning that for every 100 people who started on the programme, 112 were employed three years later as a result. That may be the first and only back-to-work programme ever to have a greater than 100% success rate.

The key features of the success of that programme that are not being duplicated by the current Government’s back-to-work programme are the special provision with a ring-fenced pot of new deal money specifically for the self-employment option and the financial cushion in the early stages of self-employment, which was so important in giving new business people an opportunity to test trading as a viable career option. In that context, the void in face-to-face business advice left in the absence of Business Link is deeply worrying.

It is a key aim of the Government to encourage the unemployed to look towards self-employment as a viable career option, and we entirely support them in that general aspiration. However, we must also be aware of the dangers of false self-employment. Bogus self-employment has rocketed in the past decade, particularly in the construction industry. Workers are often told that they will be taken on only if they agree to declare themselves self-employed, thus giving up hard-won employee entitlements such as national insurance contributions, and sick and holiday pay. Recognition of the unique challenges that the unemployed face in setting up new firms or becoming sole traders must lead to specific actions to support them into self-employment. The unemployed are less likely to have the cash to enable them to set up in business, and less likely to be able to borrow money towards start-up costs. They are likely to be less able to cope with the early cash flow shortages that are often inevitable for fledgling businesses.

As a Member of Parliament, I am a publicly employed representative of the people, who earns about £64,000 a year. Yet if I decide to write an article, provide advice or even take on a directorship to provide me with extra income, I am legally entitled to do so. However, if an unemployed person on £65 a week wants to see whether they can make a go of a business as a painter or hairdresser and does a few jobs before coming off benefits, they are committing a criminal offence. In the new deal, there was an opportunity to recognise the fact that the informal economy plays an important part in helping people to move from unemployment to self-employment.

On the new deal programme, the test trading aspect entitled people who were unemployed to enter the world of self-employment with a six-month financial cushion between leaving benefits and setting up. Subsequently the tax credit system replaced that financial cushion. Originally there was hope that the universal credit would also be an effective tool. However, as it is currently structured it works on the narrow basis of a set number of hours and set earnings, which does not fit easily with the self-employment model. Under Labour’s policy review, we are investigating an enterprise credit that would recognise the flexibility of income derived from self-employment and replace that all-important cushion to give new start-ups the security that they need.

I want to touch on a couple of speeches by other hon. Members. The hon. Member for Watford talked about the sleepless nights that often come with running one’s own business—and, indeed, we are led to believe, with being a Conservative Member of Parliament. He expanded on his wife’s role and the lack of help that she provides him with on those occasions, which she may wish to discuss with him at a future date. He also talked about children who want to go into fields such as advertising or marketing, but who do not see setting up their own business as a viable or exciting option. He rightly mentioned the huge social value in setting up a business and going on to provide employment to other members of the community.

The hon. Member for Wyre Forest (Mark Garnier) supported Labour’s policy on a national insurance holiday for micro-businesses that take on a new member of staff. He was also right behind us on pushing the Government to take forward the late payments directive. We thank him for that support. I hope that he will be successful in persuading other hon. Members to be equally enlightened.

The hon. Member for Newton Abbot (Anne Marie Morris) shared my concern that the “mentors me” website may not provide enough support for new businesses, and she expressed the importance of that. The hon. Member for Selby and Ainsty (Nigel Adams) said how important it is to celebrate entrepreneurship and highlight people’s success. The hon. Members for Nuneaton (Mr Jones) and for Meon Valley (George Hollingbery) warned us not to give a sugar-coated view of the ease of running a business. In doing that, however, I feel that the hon. Member for Nuneaton added to the myth that Britain has a particularly difficult regulatory system. The reality discovered by the World Bank is that Britain is the easiest place to set up a new business anywhere in the EU and the fourth easiest place in the world. It is important that hon. Members speak up for all the positive aspects of running one’s own business and do not exaggerate the difficulties.

There is a broader context to the discussion. When the Government have choked off the recovery with their anti-growth policies, they cannot seriously expect the private sector to provide the growth that we so desperately need. That is why we have put growth at the heart of our five-point plan and why we called for a temporary cut in VAT; it is why we supported the call by the Federation of Small Businesses for a cut to a rate of 5% for VAT on home improvements; and it is why we are calling for a national insurance holiday for micro-businesses to boost employment at small firms.

People want more than gimmicks from Government. They want a genuine programme for growth. Where the Government deliver that, they will have our support. We recognise the vital role that self-employment can play in delivering growth, creating jobs, reducing unemployment and, most of all, giving people back their pride and their sense of belief. They need have no doubt whatever about Labour’s commitment. After all, we got Britain working for itself before.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Hayes]

No, will not, because of time. Forgive me. Chesterton said that those who were impatient enough to interrupt the words of others seldom have the patience to think of good words themselves. I put on record that that is not true of my hon. Friend, but just in case, I will not give way.

My hon. Friend the Member for Selby and Ainsty (Nigel Adams) spoke about the importance of finance. My hon. Friend the Member for Nuneaton (Mr Jones) discussed enterprise and small business, and what a champion he is for the small businesses of Britain. My hon. Friend the Member for Wyre Forest (Mark Garnier) spoke about tax and the importance of having the right tax regime. My hon. Friend the Member for Maidstone and The Weald (Mrs Grant), who is no longer in her place, made a useful contribution on information about careers. My hon. Friend the Member for Montgomeryshire (Glyn Davies) made a point about the disproportionate effect of regulation on very small businesses. My hon. Friend the Member for Selby and Ainsty also mentioned skills, my hon. Friend the Member for Newton Abbot (Anne Marie Morris) mentioned mentoring and my hon. Friend the Member for Meon Valley (George Hollingbery) discussed the communal value of business. I think that I have covered most of hon. Members’ contributions. If I have not, I apologise. They were all immensely valuable, and are valued by the Government.

It is important to recognise the critical role that small business in particular plays in our economy. As an expert on these matters, Mr Streeter, you will know that small and medium-size enterprises are a crucial engine for growth and are critical to our national economic success in every sector. Together, they are responsible for almost half the private sector’s £900 billion output and 60% of private sector jobs. Since 2000, the 31% increase in businesses has been driven entirely by SMEs. Small business is the backbone of our nation and the driver of innovation. It is the embodiment of enterprise, because it is in start-up businesses that ideas have their genesis and subsequently germinate. Every business starts as a small business.

Politely—almost flatteringly—several Members referred to my own business career. I was lucky in business. All success in business is a combination of good luck and good judgment. I entered the IT industry when it was growing; what a great place it was to be in the 1980s. I learned there that politicians must be sensitive to the needs of business. They particularly need to understand that by and large, businesses want politicians to get off their back and on their side. The Government play their part through regulation, the tax system, information, support and pump-priming, but they must step back to let business thrive.

Having said that, I will mention the 10 things that Government can do, in the six minutes available to me. First, we are focusing on education. We are establishing an enterprise village website, which we will develop further, enabling teachers to access free online resources to assist them in developing school businesses. Secondly, on the “inspiring the future” website, we have made more information available about business and business education to at least 2,500 local enterprise champions and role models.

Thirdly, the National Association of College and University Entrepreneurs, which was mentioned in the debate, is building sustainable national infrastructure to develop and drive forward student enterprise societies across higher education institutions and further education colleges. I expect about 90 universities and 160 FE colleges to be involved in that initiative. Fourthly, reducing the small profits rate from 21% to 20% from April 2011 and reversing the previous Administration’s plans to raise the rate to 22% will undoubtedly help business.

Fifthly, we have increased the national insurance contributions threshold for all employers by £21 a week above indexation from April 2011, reversing the previous Government’s plan, which I think the hon. Member for Chesterfield (Toby Perkins) failed to mention because he is embarrassed about it. He is a decent and honest man, so I can understand his embarrassment, and I will not dwell on it further.

[Toby Perkins]

Will the Minister give way?

[Mr Hayes]

No, I cannot, because of time.

Sixthly, the Government also know that ensuring the flow of credit to viable small businesses is essential and a core priority for the Government. We want to ensure that the financial sector can supply the affordable credit that businesses need, and we would like to see more sources of credit and finance. I accept that banks have a role, but other organisations need to play their part too.

Seventhly, in April, we will launch a new seed enterprise investment scheme to encourage investment in new start-up companies. Eighthly, at the same time, we are launching two new Business Link services with an additional investment of £1.2 million and a new initiative to recruit and train 15,000 volunteer business mentors, which numerous people have welcomed during the debate.

Ninthly, as I am sure you know, Mr Streeter, the Government have placed great emphasis on start-up Britain. This is the year of enterprise. We want everyone to know what is happening in the UK, to promote enterprise and to give young people who wish to set up a business access to diverse sources of finance. We want to support SMEs with improved information and streamline the process by which they and others can get the knowledge and information that they require to set up their business.

Tenthly, the introduction of a national loan guarantee scheme to help businesses raise funds from non-bank sources, the £1 billion finance partnership to invest in medium-sized businesses and SMEs, the continuation of the enterprise finance guarantee scheme, a new export enterprise finance guarantee scheme, the continuation of the Government’s enterprise capital funds programme and, of course, the encouragement of the business angels scheme that we established will give businesses the boost that they need.

What has been repeated in speeches throughout this debate is that we need to change the culture to one that recognises that business has not only a communal role in delivering the growth that we need to prosper but also a vital role in enabling many of our citizens to achieve their potential to be the best they can be and, through that role, to create jobs and growth, seeding recovery in every community in Britain. The problem in Britain is not that none of that exists; far from it. We know from our constituencies and our personal business experience that that spirit exists. The problem is creating circumstances that allow it to thrive.

In those terms, the contrast between this Government and the last is profound. There is no doubt that the last Government were starry-eyed about the glitz and glamour of money, but it is clear that they were blind to the needs of small business and enterprise in particular. I hope that there has been a change, as the hon. Member for Chesterfield said. My hope is that we can understand throughout the House that business is virtuous, because it builds jobs, sustains growth and fuels healthy communities. My business is the promotion of growth, and my mission is the pursuit of the common good. It is clear that in that mission, I have the support of many colleagues in my party and throughout the House who share my enthusiasm for British business and my determination that business will prosper under this Government.

Apprenticeships

Toby Perkins Excerpts

Monday 19th December 2011 Commons Chamber

[Mr Hayes]

I do not want to be excessively critical of the previous Government. I made that clear at the outset. I said that I would not be more partisan than was necessary to illustrate the extent of our achievement.

In answer to my hon. Friend, let me point out that in 2008-09 there were fewer than 200 higher apprenticeships. With the announcements that have already been made and the relaunch of the higher apprenticeship fund in January for its next phase, I estimate that in this Parliament we will create 25,000 higher apprenticeship places. From 200 places to 25,000 is an extraordinary and remarkable achievement, for which the Prime Minister, the Chancellor, employers, learners and providers can take an immense amount of credit, and for which I can take just a little credit too.

[Toby Perkins (Chesterfield) (Lab)]

I am very keen that the hon. Gentleman should get all the credit that he can. On that note, will he tell the House how many more young people between the ages of 16 and 24 are unemployed after the 18 months in which he has been in his role?

[Mr Hayes]

I wondered whether the hon. Gentleman might ask that question because I know of his genuine and deep-seated concern about these matters, so I had a look at the figures on NEETs over the period from 2000 to date. He will know that from 2004 the number of disengaged young people grew steadily, and that in the third quarter of 2009 it reached 925,000. He will understand that that is a structural problem that requires structural solutions, and that part of the solution is to recast how we train and educate young people and how we create opportunities of the type that I have described, so that we can not only re-engage them but allow them to progress.

The difference between our approach and that of the Labour Government—and, to be fair, previous Governments—is that for a time, apprenticeships may have been seen as a cul-de-sac rather than a highway. By creating the number of higher apprenticeships that I described, I am ensuring that there is a vocational pathway, so that far from being a cul-de-sac, apprenticeships are a route to higher learning that enables people to fulfil their potential. I am confident that our structural changes will help us to deal with a structural problem in a way that the last Government failed to do. I do not say that in an unnecessarily partisan way, but it is pretty surprising that even at a time when the economy was very strong, the number of young people not in education, employment or training remained persistently high and continued to grow.

Economic Growth and Employment

Toby Perkins Excerpts

Wednesday 23rd November 2011 Commons Chamber

[Stephen Metcalfe (South Basildon and East Thurrock) (Con)]

Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker, for giving me the opportunity to speak in this important debate. There is no doubt that growth and employment should be at the top of everyone’s list of priorities, and I know that that applies to this Government, who are trying to promote that agenda. This motion, however, does nothing to build on that. It is just more of the same from the Labour party—the party that brought us to the brink of bankruptcy. [Interruption.] It is the party that just loves to spend other people's money.

[Toby Perkins (Chesterfield) (Lab)]

I think that the hon. Gentleman might have dropped his script. According to his own party, growth and job creation are not the No. 1 priority, which is deficit reduction. We absolutely support the hon. Gentleman in what he said, so will he start to put some pressure on his party to put growth and job security at the top of the agenda again?

[Stephen Metcalfe]

I put the two hand in hand. [Interruption.] Yes I do. The Government have a cogent plan, but as I say, they have to deal with the reality that we inherited.

As I was saying, the Labour party just loves to spend other people’s money. We all like to spend money: it give us that warm glow inside, but I imagine that the rate at which Labour has spent money, and wants to spend it again, would give a white-hot glow. Labour Members do not even try to hide the fact that they spent all the money. The right hon. Member for Birmingham, Hodge Hill (Mr Byrne) informed us in his now infamous note that there was no money left. Again, it falls to us to clear up their mess.

Oral Answers to Questions

Toby Perkins Excerpts

Thursday 27th October 2011 Commons Chamber

[Mr Prisk]

My right hon. Friend has made an eminently sensible suggestion. This is why we are adopting a positive approach, and trying to ensure that when Departments have redundant land, we can return it to use.

[Toby Perkins (Chesterfield) (Lab)]

Britain’s construction industry needs a lion at the wheel, but instead we have a tortoise that is sitting still while building sites and people in our construction industry are made redundant. However, there is an alternative. The shadow Chancellor’s five-point plan will produce projects that will enable us to get the industry moving. For instance, a VAT cut to 5% on home improvements and repairs and maintenance is a targeted approach that is supported by the Federation of Small Businesses. Will the Government take serious action to get the construction industry moving?

[Mr Prisk]

As I recall, the tortoise beat the hare.

Oral Answers to Questions

Toby Perkins Excerpts

Monday 17th October 2011 Commons Chamber

[Mr Hayes]

The hon. Lady has a long-standing interest in this subject, as I do, given my own hearing loss and my long-standing similar interest in disability issues more generally. I see British sign language as a bridge to learning and a key aid to communication, and I entirely agree that we need to look at ways to support it and to ensure that people old and young can learn to sign. There is an issue about whether we treat it in the way that the hon. Lady suggests, but I am more than happy to meet her to discuss this and see whether we can take it further.

[Toby Perkins (Chesterfield) (Lab)]

Some deaf children have been successful in learning foreign languages, but while deaf children are behind all children as an average, they do particularly poorly in languages. Given that, and with the Government wanting foreign languages to play a greater part, what plans do they have to ensure that deaf children do not fall further behind?

[Mr Hayes]

I have already had meetings with the Royal National Institute for Deaf People on the subject of signing, and, as I said, I am happy to meet the hon. Member for Wells (Tessa Munt) on the subject. However, I am not absolutely sure that treating BSL as a foreign language, as the original question suggested, is the best way forward. BSL is a preferred language of many deaf people in the UK, rather than a language of a different nation or culture. Some good qualifications are already in place, but I take the point that we need to examine whether they are effective in achieving the kind of results for deaf children that they deserve so that they can fulfil their potential.

Oral Answers to Questions

Toby Perkins Excerpts

Monday 11th July 2011 Commons Chamber

[Toby Perkins (Chesterfield) (Lab)]

The Minister says he thinks value for money is important and stresses the importance of the voluntary sector in providing youth services, but the Select Committee on Education report makes it absolutely clear that voluntary service organisations are already playing a very significant part in youth service provision and tells the Government that they need to acknowledge what is happening on the ground and act now. Will the Minister speak up for our young people and explain what he is going to do about the crisis in youth service provision, with local authorities right across the country making swingeing cuts?

[Tim Loughton]

Unlike the previous Government, who rather demonised young people, this Government will speak up for young people wherever we can. That is why the comprehensive youth policy we are putting together will be called “positive for youth.” It will include contributions from the voluntary sector, the business sector, the youth worker sector and young people themselves. Our very successful summit at the QEII centre in March was a springboard for probably the most comprehensive youth policy that any Government will produce. I look forward to the hon. Gentleman reading that report when it comes out in the autumn.

Young Runaways (Sexual Exploitation)

Toby Perkins Excerpts

Tuesday 21st June 2011 Westminster Hall

[Toby Perkins (Chesterfield) (Lab)]

Thank you very much for calling me to speak, Mr Turner.

I join Members from all parties in congratulating the hon. Member for Stockport (Ann Coffey) on securing this important debate. I pay tribute to the work that she does as chair of the all-party group on runaway and missing children and adults. Her commitment to vulnerable children in Stockport and right across the country is admired across the House. Those children, who may never have heard of her, have reason to be thankful that they have such a powerful advocate who battles for their rights in Parliament.

I also pay tribute to the work of the Children’s Society, the National Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Children and Barnardo’s for their work in highlighting the experiences of children in care. The recent report by Barnardo’s, “Puppet on a string”, was a particularly important contribution to raising awareness of this issue. One thing that has emerged throughout this debate is the importance of raising awareness of this issue and of ensuring that people have an opportunity to do so at an early stage.

My hon. Friend highlighted the tremendous work done by the Manchester Evening News in bringing to the public’s attention the plight of vulnerable children in the city of Manchester and the surrounding area, and I echo her comments in that regard.

This debate has been very important and very timely, and the message must go out from Parliament today that we are entirely united in fighting the evil of people, including pimps, who prey upon our most vulnerable children, and that no stone will be left unturned in that fight. We must show that this House is united in our determination to protect the most vulnerable.

Members expressed very powerfully the revulsion that we all feel about people who would inflict the horror of prostitution upon children and there is also very powerful evidence in the “Puppet on a string” report about child prostitution. When we, sitting in our relatively privileged position as Members of this House, think back to our own first sexual experience—I was lost in reverie for a moment—for most of us it will hopefully have been a happy one that we look back on with joy and, in some cases, pride. For others, the memories might not be so golden. However, the important point is that the development of our sexual identity is a vital part of who we become as people, how we see ourselves as adults and our path into adulthood.

When we, as parents, look forward to the lives that our children will lead, we hope that that important first sexual experience will be positive. We think about how it would feel for our children or, indeed, any children to look back on their first sexual experience not with fond memories, but with harrowing memories and to see sex and sexual experience as a time of fear. Such children might look back on that first trip into adulthood and recognise the fear that, at the end of the sexual experience, if they failed to comply, their lives would be in danger. That is a shocking and harrowing thought for us all, and gives us the determination to stamp out this evil and work together to ensure that these experiences are reduced for children in vulnerable circumstances.

[Dr McCrea]

In our speeches, it is certainly true that we have shown a united determination to stamp out this despicable trade—the sexual exploitation of children—throughout the United Kingdom. However, although we have had numerous debates, we do not have the appropriate and accurate data to get to the very heart of the problem. Surely, actions—our actions—will speak a lot louder than the words we utter in these debates.

[Toby Perkins]

My hon. Friend the Member for Stockport focused heavily on the importance of strengthening the data we have. I will refer to that in more detail later. She exposed graphically our failure to identify the scale of the problem. The fact that the number of police reports of missing children is so dramatically different from the number that are being reported to local authorities exposes that failure graphically. The Minister has identified that the importance of evaluating stronger data is the starting point for trying to improve the situation. We absolutely agree with that. Just to finish the point I was making, we all recognise the damage that is caused. For many people, that scar will never be washed clean.

I would like to reflect on the contribution to the debate made by my hon. Friend the Member for Stockport. She particularly focused on three things. The first was the chasm between the figures reported by local authorities and the numbers reported to the police. I am interested to hear from the Minister how he anticipates us improving the situation. Do we need more stringent standards in reporting, or is it about the measure against which children’s homes are judged? Specifically, is the accuracy of those responsible for reporting something that should be judged?

As I said, the Minister has focused on the importance of data collection and evaluation. I would like to know more about how we can address that. Is there a role for Ofsted in measuring local authorities’ implementation of statutory guidance, because considerable evidence has been highlighted today that shows how much worse the figures are than anyone realised? In the case of some two thirds of incidences of children going missing from home, the fact is not reported to the police by parents.

My hon. Friend the Member for Stockport also reflected on the importance of the link between running away and sexual exploitation and grooming. This debate is important in raising awareness, and we must do so across the board.

Much of our debate today is about vulnerable children and children in care, but sexual exploitation may occur in families where there is no apparent evidence of things having gone wrong, where the parents have done everything as perfectly as any of us as parents can do, and when there is no evidence to the outside world that there may be a problem. The Barnardo’s report includes a powerful and insightful description of a child who had had a happy upbringing, and discovered that he was gay when he became a young man. He started to go with friends to find like-minded people, but was caught up in a web of paedophilia. The evidence is harrowing. Parents may have no experience or expectation of their children becoming mixed up with such people, and they need a lot more support from us all to enable them to talk about it, and to ensure that their worries are treated seriously and that they have a powerful voice supporting them.

Awareness must be raised among the police, particularly when the focus is on front-line policing. Support must be given to police forces, and we must ensure that vice-ring and paedophile units are not reduced in difficult financial circumstances. Youth workers have an important role to play in identifying the prospects of children coming to harm. They must work closely with children’s homes to ensure that training is available—this was raised by several hon. Members—to the staff to identify children who are at risk, because patterns and regularity of children going missing is a sign that something serious is wrong. Awareness among schoolteachers must be raised, because there is considerable evidence that regular absence from school may be a sign that something sinister is wrong. Awareness is important, not just of the number of separate incidents, but of their regularity.

The question that my hon. Friend the Member for Stockport asked the police identified that 77 children were reported as being missing for more than 24 hours, and there were 711 reports. That shows the scale of how often some children go missing. There is a danger that when the police or a children’s home sees the same child go missing and then return, it is taken less seriously, but the evidence suggests that that is when we should be most worried.

My hon. Friend highlighted the patterns and tactics used by pimps and others engaged in criminal vice activities. I spoke to a woman who had worked in a hostel with young adults who had often just left care and who were targeted in a similar way. She said that people would often wait outside the hostel to try to encourage those vulnerable young adults to go with them, when they would be given gifts and attention, and were made to feel good about themselves, but their circumstances soon became bleak. They were often targeted because people in that environment knew how vulnerable they were and recognised that they were a soft target. When they succumbed, and started to feel good about themselves because someone was paying attention to them, the situation quickly changed, and they were in a situation of the utmost danger.

[Mr Dai Havard in the Chair]

The hon. Member for Mid Dorset and North Poole (Annette Brooke) spoke about the importance of raising awareness and the impact of alcohol and drug dependency on children. Alcohol and drugs are sometimes the reason children fall into the wrong hands, but they are also often a crutch once children have got into a situation that they feel unable to react against. The hon. Lady also cautioned strongly against removing the statutory duty and strongly emphasised the importance of us all working together.

My right hon. Friend the Member for Delyn (Mr Hanson) spoke about the importance of partnerships, and that came across in other contributions. It is important that our police, health services, youth workers, schools and other organisations work together. My right hon. Friend, who represents a north Wales constituency close to the English border, made an important point about how we ensure that there is co-ordination across the border with the devolved authorities, and it would be good to learn more about that. He also requested clarity about how CEOP will operate and wanted to confirm that the budgeting will remain in place for its important work.

Labour Members recognise the Minister’s commitment to do something, and I echo the offer from my hon. Friend the Member for Stockport of our complete support for his work. We support his inter-departmental working group, which recognises the importance of partnership working. Many bodies have a responsibility for raising awareness, influence it and play a role. The Minister has direct control over partnerships such as those involved in youth services, local authority reporting and schools. There is also the responsibility of children’s homes to take their duty seriously, so that they do not phone the police when a simple phone call to someone else could identify where children are. If we can reduce the work that the police have to do to identify where children are, they can focus more directly on serious problems that are identified.

There are other partnerships that the Minister can influence. We spoke briefly about the importance of prosecution. A number of new offences were created by the Sexual Offences Act 2003, but it is worrying that there have been too few prosecutions, as has been identified. Often in the situations that we are discussing, the police will seek to prosecute people for other offences, but given the evidence of the number of sexual offences being committed, we need to ensure that there are more prosecutions for them. Sentencing is obviously also important.

As I said, it is important that the police have in place the resources in these difficult circumstances to ensure that they can pursue what is often complicated work. It is important that the partnership between children’s homes and their local police forces works well and that there is proper training, support, respect and partnership working. I also welcome the action plan looking into the link between children running away and sexual exploitation.

It is important to recognise that the previous Government took this issue very seriously and published guidance for local authorities and professionals in 2009. It is disappointing that that guidance appears not to have been followed in many cases. It is important to see how we can work better with local authorities to ensure that the well-meaning measures that have been put in place deliver what we want.

We have a responsibility and a duty to do more for our most vulnerable children and to support children and families on whom this nightmare is visited, apparently from nowhere. It sickens us and it is abhorrent that such things continue to happen in our society, but that reinforces our determination to work together. This problem unites us, and we say very powerfully that it is too important not to work together to ensure that we deliver that safer world that our children deserve.

Munro Report

Toby Perkins Excerpts

Thursday 9th June 2011 Commons Chamber

[Tim Loughton]

The hon. Gentleman is absolutely right. He might have heard me say on many previous occasions that social workers, and other professionals, are damned if they do and damned if they don’t. Certain newspapers will carry headlines saying, “Those terrible, incompetent social workers were to blame—they should have intervened earlier and taken that child into care.” Two weeks later, they are saying that those terrible, incompetent social workers are too busy snatching children from good, decent, middle-class families and should be ashamed of it. Social workers cannot win. To get a better system we have to restore the confidence of the public in our child protection system. A key part of that is to get the media to understand more what the job of child protection is all about, and not to be so swift to wag the finger of blame but to help in the explanation and understanding of what went wrong and look to want to bring about solutions jointly, because that is in all our best interests. We are not in that position yet. Things are improving, but we have a long way to go.

[Toby Perkins (Chesterfield) (Lab)]

In the report, Professor Munro expresses how concerned people in the profession are about the Minister’s decision to make overviews of serious case reviews available, rather than simply the executive summaries. Many people feel that that reduces the capacity of such reviews to aid learning because it makes people more defensive. It seems that the priority is wrong. I will expand on my views with regard to Ofsted later. Does the Minister accept the concerns of Professor Munro and others who fed into the review about the negative consequences of making the overviews of serious case reviews widely known?

[Tim Loughton]

I do not think that the hon. Gentleman is entirely right. Actually, Professor Munro supports the publication of full serious case reviews. She would much rather support the publication of a better form of serious case review, which is what we need to get to.

Professor Munro made the right decision to make serious case reviews open and accessible subject to three criteria: first, that the anonymity of the characters involved is maintained; secondly, that there is appropriate redaction where information would intrude on private details; and, thirdly, that it will not go ahead if a case can be made that publication in full would be detrimental to the welfare of a surviving child or sibling. With those considerations, I think it is absolutely right that we should all have access to those reports as a learning exercise.

If the hon. Gentleman is saying, as others have, that people might be less prepared to co-operate with such reviews, he is wrong, because it is in all our interests to ensure that the fullest information possible is in the public domain so that it can be assessed and the lessons learned. The people who will benefit most from the publication in full of serious case review overview reports are social workers, for the very reason set out by the hon. Member for Alyn and Deeside (Mark Tami), who is no longer here: when there is a tragic incident, it is always the social workers what done it. When one reads the full details, one finds that in some cases the police were not too clever or perhaps there were serious shortcomings with the GP, the school or various other agencies. However, it is always social workers who are on the front line. It is only by seeing the full picture that one can get an understanding of what was the weak link in the chain or where the co-operation between agencies that is needed did not happen properly. I do not agree with the hon. Gentleman’s analysis.

Already, a lot of learning has come from the serious case reviews that have been published in full in Haringey and on the Khyra Ishaq case in Birmingham. All serious case reviews published after 10 June 2010—we have not had one yet—are obliged to follow the new publication process.

--- Later in debate ---

[Toby Perkins (Chesterfield) (Lab)]

I echo the Minister’s welcome for the work of Professor Munro, and thank her and everyone involved in the production of the report. I also give the Government credit for commissioning this important piece of work. Unlike many other reports on social work, this review has not been produced in the immediate aftermath of a specific, much-publicised tragedy. It takes a holistic view of how we could protect the most vulnerable children in our society better. I also echo my hon. Friend the Member for Sheffield, Heeley (Meg Munn) in welcoming the tone of the Minister’s remarks today. We look forward to working constructively with the Government to take forward Professor Munro’s recommendations.

Protecting our most vulnerable children is crucial, difficult and emotionally charged work. Providing the most resilient environment in which to protect children is a responsibility that has challenged and exercised Governments of every hue for many years. I pay tribute to the many hundreds of social workers who, through their hard work, commitment and professionalism, literally save lives. Social workers know that theirs is often a thankless task. When they perform at the top of their game to improve lives for the better, safeguarding children from harm and assisting families to get back on to the right path, they rarely get bouquets or thanks. They do not expect to get even a mention in the local free paper. Their own satisfaction at having made a difference has to suffice. But they also know that should any of the multitude of their borderline decisions be proved, with the benefit of hindsight, to have been wrong, and should a tragedy then occur, they will be on the front page of every newspaper in the land and held to account for their decisions.

It is in that context that Professor Munro produced her report, and that the previous Government took many significant steps to support the social work profession and our children. It is also in that context that we all have a duty to speak up for the importance of the work that social workers do, and to recognise the knife-edge nature of much of their decision making in an imperfect world.

I shall also follow the Minister’s lead in thanking foster carers across the country for their invaluable work. I know from personal experience how vital their role is. I also welcome the measures to make the route to adoption a quicker one. As an adoptive parent myself, I know the importance of children being taken on by a new family as early as possible, once they have been identified as suitable for adoption.

This is not the first report on protecting children to call for a change in society’s attitudes towards and expectations of the social work profession. Nor is it the first to call for an approach that puts children at the heart of our thinking on this subject, but it is no less valuable or right to call for these things just because they have been spoken of before. We recognise that in this vital area, progress is always more easily made when there is a sense that all the parties involved are working together constructively and positively, and there is a great deal in the report that we are happy to support enthusiastically. It builds on many of the reforms that the previous Government embarked on, and endorses many of the structures that they implemented. It also builds on the work of the social work taskforce and the social work reform board, whose contribution the review warmly endorses.

I shall turn now to the specific recommendations in the review. In calling for a child-centred approach, it recognises that the needs and rights of the child, and the child’s involvement in and ownership of a process that might be happening at a confusing and frightening time in their lives, must be paramount. We absolutely support that idea, and recognise that children must feel that the interventions and decisions being made about their future should involve them and not just be a process that happens to them. We are pleased that the review recognises that we all owe a debt of gratitude to the firm foundations of reform laid down by the social work taskforce. Among many other reforms introduced by the Labour Government, the report recommends the protection of, and specifically cautions against the dilution of, the role of directors of children’s services. I shall return to that point later. The report also endorses the vital role of the College of Social Work in lifting standards and representing the profession internally within local authorities and more broadly across all parts of our society.

The report gives further support to local safeguarding children boards, and to the 10 principles of the assessment framework. We hope that, as recommended in the review, the position of chief social worker will be able to play a key role in promoting the interests of children through the improvement of the profile and professionalism of social work, and through influencing Government policy on behalf of children and the profession.

We will support any efforts that will improve the standing of social work. This includes its profile within the media and among the wider public. It includes helping to make social work a career of choice for talented graduates, helping to build the self-esteem of the social work profession and, within the House, recognising the debt we all owe to the profession for the work it does on behalf of our most vulnerable children and families.

[Jeremy Corbyn]

My hon. Friend will have heard my earlier intervention on the Minister about the status of social workers, and I am sure he will have agreed with me. Does he also agree how important it is to have some sort of steer or directive for local government to take on newly qualified social workers and to provide them with the relevant training and entry into the profession? I observe huge cuts taking place in local government all over the country, as a result of which there are fewer new job opportunities for qualified social workers—and therein lies a problem 10, 15 or 20 years down the line.

[Toby Perkins]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right. The problem is not just 10 or 15 years down the line; it is more immediate. When we know that there are social work vacancies around the country, it seems bizarre that newly qualified people in this sector are finding it difficult to find work. Professor Munro’s recommendations on practice and assessment years at the early stages will make a significant difference—at least, I hope they will. My hon. Friend is absolutely right about the considerable anecdotal evidence that newly qualified social workers are finding it difficult to find work. I hope that the proposed measures in the report will be followed through, as it is vital that people should choose to work in this area. As the Minister has said, we want to make social work an attractive career option for talented people leaving university, but if those people find it hard to find work as a social worker, that is going to become more difficult.

[Andrea Leadsom]

Does the hon. Gentleman agree that one way to support new young social workers freshly out of university would be to provide a better end-to-end network of support, taking into account what is already available in children’s centres and other therapeutic services that could be available in a package, which could help to provide the network of support that social workers desperately need?

--- Later in debate ---

[Toby Perkins]

The hon. Lady makes a valuable point. The Munro review recognises the significant steps made in the direction of partnership working and some of the challenges, particularly in difficult financial circumstances. The report also deals with other innovations that might be needed to help achieve the hon. Lady’s suggestion in her valuable point.

The report’s recommendations on the education, training and continuous professional development of social workers are an important step forward. We entirely endorse the review’s commitment to the highest standards and consistency of education, the importance of the highest quality of practice placements and the new supported and assessed first year in practice, acting as the final stage of becoming a fully practising social worker. We recognise that more must be done to strengthen the quality of social work in this country, and a real commitment to improving education and recruitment will be very welcome.

We also believe that the recommendation for local authorities to appoint a principal children’s and family social worker could play an important role in ensuring that the voice of those who safeguard our most vulnerable children is heard loud and clear in every town hall in the land.

We particularly welcome the further support for early intervention to identify and work on problems as soon as they are presented. Professor Munro particularly identifies the importance of early intervention whenever it occurs in a child’s life, and we entirely agree with her on that. Although many families that require the help of social services might appear likely to head down the wrong path in life from an early stage, changing circumstances can mean that children and families hit problems and need support at any time in the childhood journey—and the earlier those problems are identified and the more broadly all parties work together, the better the chance that families can be kept together and problems averted before they become impossible to deal with.

The review also focuses at length on the importance of partnership working, extolling the virtues of the existing networks in early years practice and the importance of a constructive relationship with the police, mental health services, adult social services and health professionals. The review expresses the fear that widespread changes and the desperate financial position in which some public services find themselves could lead to a fracturing of the partnerships. Indeed, we are already seeing evidence of that.

We know from the Secretary of State’s letter to Professor Munro, the choice of Professor Munro to head the review team, and the press releases that have emanated from the Department for Education that the need to cut paperwork and bureaucracy in order to enable social workers to do what they should be doing is intended to be a prominent theme, but anyone who focused solely on that element of the report would greatly undermine its quality and depth. I hope that no one will again attempt such a paraphrase, because the quality of the research and the importance of the issue deserve better. I am thankful that the Minister went far beyond that in his speech today.

We welcome the recognition of the importance of administrative support for social workers so that they can spend more time in the field. It is sad, however, that that comes at a time when Unison is reporting that many of its members with administrative roles are among the first to be laid off in councils. Administration and record-keeping vital: they can save social workers’ time, and are invaluable to the quality of their intervention. No one in this House wants to prevent social workers from spending as much time as possible working with children and families, and we all know that social workers themselves do not go into the profession with the dream of sitting at a wooden desk typing away.

There is no doubt that the review team considered at length the amount of central prescription and the amount of time spent on administration—matters that have also concerned the profession and its representative bodies and unions. We support the pilot schemes that are taking place in four authorities with the aim of relaxing time scales. They are at an early stage, but we look forward to the outcome. We urge the Minister to ensure that the additional quality assurance measures referred to in appendix D and implemented in Hackney are tightly observed while those trials are being completed, and that before anything is done to make the changes widespread, the full implications of those changes are understood.

[Mr Graham Stuart]

The hon. Gentleman touched on the subject of bureaucracy, but he did not make his views clear. Does he accept that there was too much prescription from the centre, does he accept that it was getting in the way of effective social work, and will he give an undertaking that a future Labour Government would not seek to reverse sensible, practical and common-sense attempts to reduce bureaucracy and ensure that the priority is given to the front line?

[Toby Perkins]

I shall deal with that point in some detail later. However, I can say that we support the trials that are taking place. If the professionals feel that some measures can safely be dispensed with, that is acceptable as long as safeguards are established, as they have been in Hackney, to prevent slippage of cases. We do not want social workers to lose sight of the importance of some cases along with the paperwork.

The report is evidence based, and Professor Munro identifies both excitement and anxiety in the profession about the steps to be taken. Throughout its time in government Labour took advice from experts seriously, as the present Government are doing.

[Meg Munn]

In the report, Professor Munro observes that

“most bureaucracy which limits practitioners’ capacity and ability to practise effectively, is generated and maintained at a local level.”

We should consider that carefully. Headlines that blame people for bureaucracy are not helpful. We need to identify where the bureaucracy is coming from, and tackle it properly.

[Toby Perkins]

My hon. Friend speaks on the basis of tremendous experience as a result of the work that she did before entering the House—and, of course, since doing so—and she is absolutely right. Trade unions, social workers and others in the profession want us to proceed as carefully as possible. I reiterate that there is nothing that we want more than social workers who are enabled to spend the maximum amount of time with the children and families with whom they are working.

We support the pilot scheme in four authorities, and we urge the Minister to ensure that the additional quality assurance measures referred to in the report are followed so that the full implications of the changes are understood before any measures are taken to make the scheme more widespread. The proposed changes are important and offer advances, but they must not be rushed. The Ofsted report detailing children’s experiences before entering care demonstrates the importance of social workers spending time in face-to-face, one-to-one meetings with the children and families in their care, but the research also shows how varied the quality of practice is, and with that in mind, and in advance of the improved education and training—and also in the context of the difficult financial settlement facing local authorities—it must be stressed that it is vital that every care is taken.

The National Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Children echoes this view. It states:

“The Government should not move too quickly to rapid deregulation. It needs to invest heavily in building the skills, confidence and experience of all professionals working with children. Controls which safeguard against poor practice must stay in place while professionalism is built. Otherwise, children’s lives could be put at risk.”

We entirely support those comments.

We have concerns about the portability of documentation if each local authority has a different common assessment framework. The whole point of having a common piece of documentation was that it would only need completing once. Perhaps it could be slimmed down and used by all partner agencies, wherever they are. If that documentation needs to be re-done every time a child moves from one authority area to another, the intention of cutting back on paperwork may be undermined.

We also have concerns about the recommendation and current direction of travel with regard to serious case reviews. The review rightly identifies the importance of learning lessons from SCRs. Alongside learning lessons, however, they must also perform the task of building public confidence in the profession and illustrate that there is no cover-up, no attempt to hide from the truth and no sense of the ranks being closed. There is a delicate balance to strike.

Local safeguarding children boards are not forced to be independent and are inevitably seen by some as internal partners, having a relationship with the practitioners providing the service. In some cases, they are chaired by the director of children’s services. The independent evaluation of the work of LSCBs on SCRs offers an important neutral balance to ensure that the correct lessons have been learned.

Professor Munro identifies LSCBs’ unhappiness at the role of Ofsted, but I wonder whether the independent assessments analysing the quality of the SCRs might check on how successfully lessons are learned. It does not seem to me that the fact of an evaluation in itself prevents a culture change towards a more learning-based approach. Whoever does independent inspections in future can be directed by the Minister in whichever way he wants, but simply to abandon any sort of independent review until a new body is in place in the next year or so is unsatisfactory.

We also feel that the decision to publish the entire overview of SCRs is having, and will have, very negative consequences. When in government, Labour increased the transparency of executive summaries of SCRs, but we feel that the balance is now leading to a less helpful situation. Professor Munro highlights on page 61 of the review the unhappiness felt by many in the profession about this move. It can hamper the attempt to make learning the principal aim of SCRs, and it inevitably restricts the enthusiasm of some practitioners to be frank about what they may have got wrong. We need to see the culture change before there is a move towards publishing the entire overview of the SCR. This also inevitably makes it highly unlikely that the better reporting of social work practice by the media that the Munro review cries out for will happen. It is also apparent that other partners are stepping back from getting involved in SCRs because of the full reporting of them. The Minister was right to say that if people are refusing to get involved in SCRs, that is wrong, and it is important that we learn those lessons. We are worried that publishing the full overview of them is having that effect, however, regardless of whether that should be done in the best interests of our children.

There is also anecdotal evidence, which we will be investigating further, that the threshold for serious case reviews is being lifted by authorities and that they are deciding that they are less likely to do them. Again, that will have a negative impact on our capacity to learn from past mistakes. It seems an odd set of priorities to remove the independent evaluator of serious case reviews at the same time as we are opening them up to wider public and media scrutiny. That suggests a “kangaroo court” approach, which is totally out of keeping with this review, and it could be a seriously retrograde step.

I mentioned that the review had identified, as had our own work with local authorities, that the role of the director of children’s services to be a purely child-centred position was under threat. That is hardly surprising, given that the Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government is positively encouraging this sort of change to local government practice, with managers merging roles and councils becoming a little bit cheaper and quite a bit worse. That seems to be the Pickles recipe for local government. We urge this Minister to stand up for children against the right hon. Member for Brentwood and Ongar (Mr Pickles) and we urge councils to protect the role of director of children’s services.

[Jessica Lee (Erewash) (Con)]

Does the hon. Gentleman not accept that the flip side of his argument about serious case reviews is compelling? We must be transparent at this point and we need to assist all professionals working in child protection. Everybody needs all that information if we are going to learn the lessons, not only from where things have gone wrong, but from good practice. We need to have full transparency, and serious case reviews must be published in full.

[Toby Perkins]

As I said, we take advice from specialists in the profession and many people within the social work field are deeply concerned about that issue; page 61 of Professor Munro’s report alludes to those concerns. Of course transparency is important, and it is precisely for that reason that we would like an organisation that is seen as independent continuing the evaluation of serious case reviews. However, alongside that important transparency, we need to deal with key issues relating to the protection of anonymity of both professionals and people within the families. It has been relatively easy for people in local areas to identify who has been alluded to in many of the serious case reviews. In one example that I was told about by a social work professional, a serious case review referred to a relative of a soldier serving on the front line. If that review had been published in full, a difficult situation could have been caused for someone who was already in a difficult position. Although I share the hon. Lady’s idea that transparency is important, and it is for precisely that reason that an independent review of the evaluation must remain a part of the system, I question whether this approach will aid learning and will instead reduce people’s willingness to get involved.

Much of this review is dedicated to the importance of improving the quality of social work training and the continuous professional development journey that social workers go on, yet worrying signs are already emerging about councils reacting to the savage cuts forced on them by cutting back on CPD and training. We also share Professor Munro’s alarm about the evidence of cuts to early years provision. Some 25% of Children England member organisations are experiencing cuts of more than a quarter of their income—for them it seems as if the big society is rapidly shrinking. The Minister needs to stand up for early years funding if the measures on sharing responsibility for early help set out in this report are to be more than warm words. Continued denial about the scale or fact of the cuts will simply suggest that the Government are not serious. It is particularly worrying that areas with the highest level of deprivation and the highest demands on social services are the very ones that have seen the largest Government cuts.

[Andrea Leadsom]

rose—

[Toby Perkins]

I will just make this point and then I will be happy to allow the hon. Lady to intervene.

I have referred to the survey that we sent to every director of children’s services in England on the state of safeguarding services. We had an excellent response from a significant proportion of local authorities and a number of patterns emerged. Local authorities are trying desperately hard to protect spending on safeguarding, and we salute them for that. However, despite that commitment, 36% of local authorities expected case loads to increase this year and only 10% expected them to fall. One assistant director of children’s services explained the paradox of statutory guidance.

Before I move on any further, I will allow the hon. Lady to intervene. I was trying to find a natural pause, but the words just flowed so wonderfully that I could not stop.

[Andrea Leadsom]

I am very grateful. In this time of financial austerity, is it not more important than ever to get good value for money by focusing on prevention rather than having the massive costs, further down the line, of taking children into care?

--- Later in debate ---

[Toby Perkins]

Absolutely. This is a matter on which there is clearly consensus across the House, but there is a difficulty when it comes to the reality on the ground, for example in Sure Start centres and with early intervention. People are seeing that the—for want of a better word—rhetoric around early years is not being supported by funding, and there is a danger that the massive cuts to local authorities mean that they might not be able to follow through on worthy intentions such as those that the hon. Lady mentioned, which are shared by Members across the House.

One assistant director of children’s services said that statutory guidance was extremely important to ensure that she could stand up to councillors who look to her services for cuts, as it meant she could say, “This is stuff that we have to do.” She warned that the more freedom local authorities were given to drop safeguards, the more likely councils would be to cut back on safeguarding. That is not an argument for keeping in place regulation that we can do without, but it is a possible unintended consequence of which the Minister should be wary.

Our survey also showed that directors of children’s services are almost unanimous about the impact of cuts on police, mental health and primary care services, saying that it will reduce their ability to safeguard children in their care. That is the voice from the ground and no one can run away from it.

On the subject of local authorities’ identifying which models of best practice they want to follow, we are again in support of the principle, but I am interested to know what drivers of best practice the Minister feels he has at his disposal to improve standards. Is he worried that if each council is radically different in the way that it provides services, the transition for social workers who move from one authority to another will be more difficult? Will it increase the postcode lottery? Will there be even greater variation in the quality of service provision from one authority to another?

As I have said, our greatest reservations about the direction of travel proposed in the report are not about Professor Munro’s suggestions, but about whether the Government will put legislative and financial muscle behind the changes that she suggests. An exciting opportunity to build on past progress has been presented, and the Government, having commissioned this report, now need to act on it fully, with the relatively minor exceptions that I have described.

We worry that the dogma of cutting back on the state could overpower the genuine desire to do the best for our most vulnerable children. The Minister and the Government can rely on us to support them on these reforms if they actually provide the resources needed. This is not an opportunity for cherry-picking, but it is a time for boldness. The Minister and the Government have an opportunity to act and we hope that they seize it because our children deserve nothing less.

[Several hon. Members]

rose—

Oral Answers to Questions

Toby Perkins Excerpts

Monday 23rd May 2011 Commons Chamber

[Tim Loughton]

I want to raise the profile of the whole issue of the trafficking of children and the sexual exploitation of children—another important issue, on which we are working closely with Barnardo’s and stakeholders—and to ensure that we have much better inter-agency working. In Professor Munro’s recommendations, local safeguarding children boards have a key role to play. That might be considered alongside what the director of children’s services does in any case.

[Toby Perkins (Chesterfield) (Lab)]

The Opposition welcome Professor Eileen Munro’s report, and specifically her recommendation that the role of director of children’s services is protected. We recently surveyed every director of children’s services in England, more than 80% of whom said that the ability to safeguard children in their area would be reduced by cuts to police, mental health services or primary care. Does the Minister acknowledge the worries of those directors of children’s services that cuts to those services will impact on the ability of councils to safeguard their children, and what is he doing to represent those views to his ministerial colleagues?

[Tim Loughton]

If the hon. Gentleman has read the Munro report, he will know that she identifies as the biggest enemy to protecting children better the bureaucracy that has gone into the system, whereby social workers at the sharp end with other key agencies and professionals spend up to 80% of their time in front of computer screens, complying with processes rather than getting out into the field and dealing with the vulnerable families and children whom they went into the profession to protect. That is what we want to happen in future, and I hope it will happen as we take forward the Munro review, in the best interests of protecting the vulnerable children who are not nearly safe enough now.