Oral Answers to Questions

Susan Elan Jones Excerpts

Wednesday 23rd January 2019 Commons Chamber

[Alun Cairns]

My hon. Friend has highlighted inefficiencies in the current proposal, and there is a range of options for how we can best work on those. We are going out to consultation very soon. We have cross-Government discussions and consideration of this subject, but I do not want to pre-empt the consultation. I encourage my hon. Friend to engage with me, the Secretary of State for Scotland and the Treasury.

[Susan Elan Jones (Clwyd South) (Lab)]

In the late 1990s, the Secretary of State’s party was voting against the existence of the National Assembly. In 2005, it had a manifesto option of abolishing the Assembly. Can he understand why many Opposition Members do not believe that he truly wants to involve our National Assembly for Wales in the governance of the UK shared prosperity fund?

[Alun Cairns]

That question is a bit rich coming from the hon. Lady, given that her party’s Government left us with the famous legislative consent order motions, which meant that the Welsh Government could not even pass primary legislation in certain areas without Parliament’s explicit control. I point to the Wales Acts 2014 and 2017 and to the referendum, which extended the powers of the Welsh Assembly, as well as countless Joint Ministerial Committee meetings and this afternoon’s meeting between the Prime Minister and the First Minister to discuss how best to manage Brexit.

Welsh Affairs

Susan Elan Jones Excerpts

Monday 19th March 2018 Commons Chamber

[Alun Cairns]

I do not accept that statement. The ownership of the airport does not matter; it is the operation and management of the airport that is important. The hon. Gentleman will recognise that it is an independent, limited company, and it is important that the airport has the freedom to operate in the way it does. I am privileged to have the airport in my constituency, and I support it. In recent months, I have spoken to every managing director or chief executive involved to encourage and facilitate more flights to and from the airport, which is playing a part in contributing to its success. It has grown by 8%, but other airports across the country have grown by similar amounts because of the success of the UK economy.

Welsh businesses will be at the forefront of the UK’s biggest ever trade festival, which kicks off in Hong Kong later this week. I am determined to ensure a close working relationship between the Welsh Government, my office and the Department for International Trade on foreign direct investment and our export ambitions. This is what businesses and communities want. Last week, the Department for International Trade and I held workshops in my office in Cardiff bay to better understand the barriers to exporting and the opportunities in which each Government can play a part in supporting those ambitious companies. I will host a similar event in north Wales next week.

Certainty and continuity for businesses and communities are themes that we are extending to our approach to leaving the European Union. As Members will be aware, we have been working closely with the Welsh Government on the European Union (Withdrawal) Bill. Our initial approach was to retain all EU powers at UK level on a temporary basis to provide the certainty and security that the business community has called for, and we have committed to working with the devolved Administrations on how these powers will work and their onward transfer to the Welsh, Scottish and Northern Ireland Assemblies and Parliaments. However, having listened carefully to the concerns raised by the devolved Administrations, we have tabled an amendment to clause 11. The assumption is that the powers should be devolved, but with an order-making power to enable the UK Government, working with all the devolved Administrations, to legislate and to protect the UK common market. This will apply only in a limited number of areas and on a temporary basis. We have published analysis showing that we expect there to be only 24 areas of policy where we will need to discuss the possibility of legislative frameworks with the Welsh Government.

[Susan Elan Jones (Clwyd South) (Lab)]

Will the Secretary of State give way?

[Wayne David]

Will the Secretary of State give way?

[Alun Cairns]

I will give way in a moment, but I want to finish this important point.

This means that we expect to be able to devolve 40 areas with either no frameworks or only informal agreements. The result is that the vast majority of powers returning from Brussels that intersect with devolved competence will fall under the full control of the devolved Administrations from day one of exit.

[Susan Elan Jones]

Is not the right hon. Gentleman really saying that he has not listened to the Welsh Government?

[Alun Cairns]

I would hope that the hon. Lady recognised that we have listened to the Welsh Government and the other devolved Administrations by bringing forward the amendment in the other place. We are still working with the Welsh Government to get to a position of agreement where we can gain a legislative consent motion. That we have a robust relationship is demonstrated by the fact that the First Minister and the Finance Minister, Mark Drakeford, have said that we are very close to a deal, although we are not there yet and further challenges remain.

--- Later in debate ---

[Christina Rees]

I totally agree. As a former councillor on Bridgend County Borough Council, I have close ties with the factory and I fully understand my hon. Friend’s point.

Ports make a huge contribution to the Welsh economy, supporting around 11,000 jobs and providing an economic hub and trade gateway with Europe and the rest of the world. Indeed, 80% of goods carried in Irish-registered HGVs between the Republic of Ireland and Europe pass through Welsh ports. In 2016, 524,000 lorries passed through major Welsh ports to and from the Irish Republic. Ireland holds a key position in Welsh inward investment, with more than 50 Irish-owned companies in Wales employing 2,500 people.

Opposition Members will continue to speak up for Wales and for Welsh families, communities and businesses. We will continue to stand up for the devolution settlement itself. Twice the Welsh public have gone to the polls in referendums to shape their devolved Government, and they have set down the parameters on how the Government in Wales relate to the Government of the whole UK. It is not for any UK Government unilaterally to rewrite the rules of devolution—to attempt to power-grab and centralise functions set out in law and agreed through the ballot box—using Brexit as a cover for those actions. Opposition Members will stand up for Wales and for devolution.

The Welsh Labour Government have made it clear that they will not recommend that legislative consent is given to the UK Government’s proposals while they impose unacceptable constraints on current devolved powers, which remain unworkable in practice.

The Welsh Labour Government also made it clear that, in the event of the UK Government failing to bring forward satisfactory amendments, they will introduce their own legislation to provide legal continuity in Wales for EU-derived legislation relating to devolved competences.

[Susan Elan Jones]

I agree wholeheartedly with my hon. Friend, but does she think that it is time we got it into the heads of some Government Members that Wales did not vote just once for devolution, but for full law-making powers in a second referendum? The Government are totally disrespecting democracy in Wales.

[Christina Rees]

My hon. Friend makes a powerful point, with which I agree. Sometimes, I think the Government just do not get it.

Autumn Budget as it Relates to Wales (Morning sitting)

Susan Elan Jones Excerpts

Wednesday 7th February 2018 General Committees

[Ysgrifennydd Gwladol Cymru/the Secretary of State for Wales (Alun Cairns)]

Diolch Mr Cadeirydd. Cynigaf,

Bod y Pwyllgor wedi ystyried Cyllideb yr hydref mewn perthynas â Chymru.

Mr Owen, diolch am y cyfle i agor y drafodaeth heddiw. Mae’n bleser gwasanaethu o dan eich cadeiryddiaeth unwaith eto. Rwy’n falch o fod yn siarad gyda chi i gyd heddiw yn yr iaith Gymraeg. Mae’r iaith yn bwysig i mi, yn bwysig i’r gymuned rwyf yn ei chynrychioli ac yn ganolog, yn amlwg, i hanes a diwylliant Cymru.

(Translation) I beg to move,

That the Committee has considered the matter of the autumn Budget as it relates to Wales.

Thank you, Mr Owen, for allowing me to open the debate. It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship. I am proud to speak to the Committee in the Welsh language, which is important to me and to the community that I represent and is integral to the history and culture of Wales.

[Susan Elan Jones (Clwyd South) (Lab)]

Wnaiff yr Ysgrifennydd Gwladol ildio?

(Translation) Will the Secretary of State give way?

[Alun Cairns]

Os gai wneud bach mwy o dro.

Rwy’n gwybod bod llawer o Aelodau ar y Pwyllgor heddiw wedi ymgyrchu ac wedi galw am y newid hwn ers blynyddoedd, ac hoffwn gydnabod bob ymdrech gan bob aelod. Mae heddiw yn ddiwrnod hanesyddol i’r Senedd ac i Gymru ac, yn uniongyrchol, hoffwn sôn am y Gweinidog dros Swyddfa’r Cabinet a Changhellor Dugiaeth Caerhirfryn, a wnaeth gefnogi’r alwad drawsbleidiol a ddaeth ar y pryd.

Mae’n bwysig ein bod yn dod at ein gilydd yma, yn fforwm yr Uwch Bwyllgor Cymreig, ac mae’n bleser agor y drafodaeth hon trwy drafod Cyllideb yr hydref mewn perthynas â Chymru. Hoffwn amlinellu’r gwaith mae’r Llywodraeth yn ei wneud i sicrhau ein bod yn mynd i’r afael â’r heriau economaidd mewn ffordd sy’n codi’r economi ym mhob rhan o’r Deyrnas Unedig, gan gynnwys Cymru. Dyna pam y bydd y mesurau yng Nghyllideb yr hydref—fel y cynlluniau i wella cysylltiadau rheilffyrdd yng Nghymru, buddsoddi mewn bargeinion dinesig a thwf, a chyllid ychwanegol i Lywodraeth Cymru—yn rhoi rhagor o bŵer gwario i Gymru a fydd yn rhoi hwb i’r economi leol ac yn galluogi Cymru i ffynnu.

(Translation) Let me make a little progress.

Many Committee members have campaigned for this change for many years, and I pay tribute to every Member’s work. This is a historic day for Parliament and for Wales. My right hon. Friend the Minister for the Cabinet Office and Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster backed the cross-party call for this change. It is essential that we come together in the forum of the Welsh Grand Committee, and it is a pleasure to open this debate on the matter of the autumn Budget as it relates to Wales.

I want to outline the work that the Government are doing to ensure that we meet economic challenges in a way that increases prosperity in all parts of the UK, including Wales. The measures in the autumn Budget, such as plans to improve Welsh rail links and to invest in city and growth deals, and of course the additional funding for the Welsh Government, will provide Wales with greater spending power, which will bolster the local economy and enable Wales to thrive.

[Susan Elan Jones]

Rwyf yn ddiolchgar i’r Ysgrifennydd Gwladol ac yn ddiolchgar hefyd ddaru’r Llywodraeth newid ei meddwl ynglŷn â defnydd yr iaith Gymraeg yn y Pwyllgor yma. A ydy’r Ysgrifennydd Gwladol yn meddwl bod hynny, efallai, yn arwydd bod y Llywodraeth yn barod i newid ei meddwl, er enghraifft, ynglŷn â’n haelodaeth o’r undeb tollau? Mae hynny’n hynod o bwysig i ni.

(Translation) I am grateful to the Secretary of State for giving way, and to the Government for changing their mind on the use of the Welsh language in the Committee. Does he believe that that is a sign that the Government are willing to change their mind, for example, on our membership of the customs union, which is very important to us?

[Alun Cairns]

Rwyf yn ddiolchgar am yr ymyrraeth gan y Foneddiges anrydeddus. Mae’r hen rheolau wedi bod yn eu lle dros ddegawdau ac roeddwn felly yn falch iawn bod y Llywodraeth yma wedi cefnogi’r newidiadau a ddaeth ar lefel drawsbleidiol.

Ni all y Llywodraeth weithredu ar ei phen ei hun i gyflawni’r newidiadau sydd eu hangen ar Gymru. Dyma pam rwyf am bwysleisio fy awydd i gydweithio’n agos gyda Llywodraeth Cymru er budd Cymru. Rwy’n annog Llywodraeth Cymru i ddefnyddio ei phŵerau ei hun a’r Cynulliad i gyflawni buddiannau economaidd tebyg i Gymru.

Rwyf yn edrych ymlaen at drafodaeth ddiddorol a bywiog heddiw yma yn y Pwyllgor.

(Translation) I am grateful to the hon. Lady for her intervention. The orders have been in place for decades, so I was pleased that this Government supported the changes that came about on the basis of cross-party support.

This Government cannot act alone to deliver the changes that Wales needs, so I reiterate my desire to work closely with the Welsh Government in the best interests of Wales. I urge the Welsh Government to use their powers and the Welsh Assembly’s powers to deliver similar economic benefits to Wales.

I look forward to an interesting and stimulating debate.

--- Later in debate ---

[Alun Cairns]

Rwyf eisiau tynnu cymunedau at ei gilydd: yn amlwg cymunedau o Geredigion ac o Bowys, ond hefyd rwyf yn gobeithio bydd cyfleoedd i rai o’r siroedd yn Nghymru ac ar yr ochr arall i gydweithio er mwyn denu buddsoddiant newydd i’r ardaloedd ac er mwyn cefnogi’r economi. Mae hynny’n golygu y byddai pob rhan o Gymru yn cael budd o’r gefnogaeth leol a phenodol y mae bargeinion dinesig a thwf yn ei chynnig. Ac mae hyn, wrth gwrs, ar ben y fformiwla Barnett newydd sydd wedi ei chytuno.

(Translation) I am very much in favour of bringing communities together, whether they be the communities of Ceredigion or of Powys, but I am also eager to give opportunities to some of the counties of Wales—and those on the other side of the border too—to work together to attract new investment into those areas and to support the economy. Our policy means that every part of Wales will benefit from the local, targeted support offered by the city and growth deals. That is above the new Barnett formula that has been agreed.

[Susan Elan Jones]

Rydym yn croesawu bob cyhoeddiad am fargen twf gogledd Cymru, ond byddwn yn ei chroesawu’n fwy pan fydd yn digwydd. Pryd mae’n mynd i ddigwydd?

(Translation) I welcome any announcement on a north Wales growth deal, but I will welcome it more when it happens. When will it happen?

[Alun Cairns]

Rydw i’n falch fod y Foneddiges anrhydeddus wedi gofyn y cwestiwn. Y peth sydd wrth wraidd y cynlluniau twf a’r bargeinion dinesig yw bod y grym yn nwylo’r awdurdodau lleol a busnesau lleol. Felly, rydym yn rhoi cyfle at ei gilydd ac, yn amlwg, yn gobeithio bydd y Foneddiges anrhydeddus yn fodlon cydweithio gyda’r cymunedau a’r busnesau er mwyn eu bod yn cyflawni’r cynlluniau ac i ddod â realiti i’r broses wrth ei bod yn datblygu.

Fel Aelodau Seneddol o bob cwr o Gymru, mae’n bwysig ein bod i gyd yn rhan o’r broses hon. Felly, rwyf yn falch iawn y llwyddodd gymaint ohonoch i ymuno â Swyddfa Cymru cyn y Nadolig i glywed yn uniongyrchol gan ein partneriaid lleol ynglŷn â’u cynnydd yng ngogledd Cymru. Yn amlwg, mae angen mwy o waith i gefnogi’r gwaith da sydd wedi mynd o’i flaen.

(Translation) I am glad that the hon. Lady asked that question. What lies at the heart of the growth and city deals is that the power lies in the hands of local authorities and local businesses, so we are giving them an opportunity to come together. We hope that she is willing to work with communities and businesses to achieve the deals and to make them a reality as they develop.

It is important that Members of Parliament from all parts of Wales are part of the process. I was therefore delighted that so many of the Members present were able to join us before Christmas to hear directly from local partners on the progress that they are making in north Wales. Obviously, we need more work in that regard to support the good work that has taken place already.

--- Later in debate ---

[Christina Rees]

I am sure the Welsh Government are looking at every area of Wales to increase prosperity, and making every effort to do so.

[Susan Elan Jones]

I am interested by what the hon. Member for Ceredigion said, but he should remember that, around that time, there was a coalition between Labour and Plaid Cymru. There is much consensual working in the Assembly, which I welcome. He should be careful before firing his darts.

[Christina Rees]

I totally agree with my hon. Friend and I thank her for speaking in English, which takes me less time to understand. [Interruption.] I am not going to respond to that. I can imagine what it meant, but I am not going to respond.

As with every Tory pledge, the devil will be in the detail, and we await the detail for the north Wales and mid-Wales growth deals.

The UK Tory Government’s claims of an extra £1.2 billion for Wales are pure smoke and mirrors. The truth is that the real uplift to the Welsh budget is significantly smaller. In 2022, after nearly 12 years of UK Tory Government rule, UK GDP is forecast to be £41 billion, or 3%, lower than previously predicted. The Office for Budget Responsibility has downgraded its growth forecast for each of the next five years. That means that Wales will be significantly worse off than previously thought. That will have an impact on tax receipts, which will be £26 billion lower by 2022, there will be higher borrowing, and less funding will be available for public services.

All that is a direct product of the UK Tory Government’s ideological commitment to the failed and damaging policy of austerity. Despite eight years of Tory austerity, continued cuts to the block grant of more than £1 billion in total and the UK Tory Government continually letting Wales down, the Welsh Labour Government continue to do a remarkable job. They have led the way on sprinklers, plastic carrier bag charges, free bus passes and prescriptions, and opt-out organ donation. Our Welsh Labour Government continue to protect and invest in frontline services, and continue to work to protect our communities against the cruellest excesses of UK Tory Government cuts. That work will be much harder following November’s weak and desperate Budget from a UK Tory Government who simply do not care about Wales. At the end of the day, there is a saying in Wales: “Cymru yn arwain, eraill yn dilyn.”

--- Later in debate ---

[Jonathan Edwards]

Mae hynny’n wir. Roeddwn yn darllen rhywbeth ddoe bod disgwyl y bydd pris defaid, yn enwedig, a chig yn syrthio’n ddifrifol os mae Cymru’n ffeindio’i hunan y tu allan i’r undeb tollau. Mae’r peryglon ar gyfer y sector amaethyddol, sydd yn ein gwynebu yn y dyfodol agos, yn beryglus iawn. Mae ein arweinydd seneddol yn codi pwynt dilys iawn.

(Translation) That certainly is the case. I was reading something yesterday that said that the price of sheep, and of meats in general, is expected to fall significantly if Wales finds itself outside the customs union. The risks for the agricultural sector in the very near future are huge. Our parliamentary leader raises a very valid point.

[Susan Elan Jones]

Rwyf yn cytuno gyda’r Bonheddwr anrhydeddus yn llwyr wrth iddo sôn am yr argyfwng ym myd ffermio, ond ydy e’n meddwl hefyd ein bod yn sôn nid am ffermio’n unig ond hefyd am yr economi wledig gyfan ar ôl Brexit? Mae hynny yn drychinebus, i fod yn onest.

(Translation) I agree entirely with the hon. Gentleman about the crisis in agriculture. Does he believe that we are talking about not only farmers, but the broader rural economy, as a result of Brexit? This truly is a crisis, is it not?

[Jonathan Edwards]

Mae’r Foneddiges anrhydeddus yn codi pwynt hollol sylfaenol. Mae amaeth yn ganolog i’r economi wledig. Os yw amaeth yn dioddef, bydd sectorau eraill yn dioddef, megis twristiaeth a phob math o sectorau. Gallen i fynd i fewn i araeth hir iawn am beth sydd angen gwneud i amddiffyn ein sector amaethyddol, ond dwi’n credu byddaf yn mynd ychydig y tu allan i gwmpas y Gyllideb. Rwyf wir yn credu bod Brexit yn bwynt mor ganolog y dylai’r Uwch Bwyllgor yma gwrdd eto yn fuan iawn i drafod polisi’r Llywodraeth. Credaf mai hwn, o bell ffordd, yw’r prif her sy’n ein gwynebu.

(Translation) The hon. Lady raises a fundamental point. Agriculture is a focal point for the rural economy. If agriculture suffers, other sectors will suffer, such as tourism and others. I could make a lengthy speech about what needs to be done to protect our agricultural sector, but that might be outside the scope of the Budget. I truly believe that Brexit is such a fundamental point that this Welsh Grand Committee should meet again very soon to discuss the Government’s policy. That is the major challenge facing the Government.

--- Later in debate ---

[Susan Elan Jones]

Mae’n bleser mawr i ddod i’r Pwyllgor hwn heddiw ac i allu defnyddio’r iaith Gymraeg.

(Translation) It is a great pleasure for me to come to this Committee today and to be able to use the Welsh language.

I will not surprise my colleagues too much by saying that I will make the bulk of my speech today in Welsh. I am conscious that I have something like two and a half minutes before this session breaks. I want to say a few words in English in case a producer on “Newsnight” is listening and wondering how we are coping with the hindrance of having a bilingual Welsh-English debate, or in case a journalist from The Guardian is chewing away somewhere at their lentil sandwich and wondering whether they should be writing another article about minority rights or documenting the plight of those to the west of Offa’s Dyke who have the temerity to want Wales to be a truly bilingual nation. I make the point in jest: I have nothing against “Newsnight”, The Guardian or even lentil sandwiches, but I do have something against the media and academic commentators, especially those who declare themselves on the left or centre left, when they speak up for every other minority language and culture and downright denigrate our Welsh language and culture. Our language and culture belongs to everyone. I say that as someone who comes from a family where some members speak Welsh and others do not. All I ask of those wonderful progressives who traipse our land, if they really do believe in equality and diversity, is for similar respect and that they treat us in that vein.

Mae symboliaeth ddwfn i’r ffaith y gallwn ddefnyddio'r Gymraeg yn y ddadl hon ac yn y pwyllgor hwn heddiw. Yn y lle hwn ganrifoedd maith yn ôl fe benderfynwyd na fyddai'r Gymraeg yn iaith swyddogol i Gymru. Ond yn y lle hwn hefyd, yn 1967, gyda’r diweddar Cledwyn Hughes fel Ysgrifennydd Gwladol Cymru, fe basiwyd y Ddeddf Iaith Gymraeg gyntaf. Yn y lle hwn hefyd, nid yn unig gallwn ddefnyddio’r iaith Gymraeg yn ein Pwyllgor, ond gallwn ddweud yn wir yn ein Huwch Bwyllgor Cymreig bod yr iaith Gymraeg yn un o’n hieithoedd swyddogol yn y lle hwn. Felly, mae’n ddiwrnod pwysig iawn i ni gyd. Mae gennym bwynt pwysig i’w ystyried: y Gyllideb. Dros Gymru a Phrydain gyfan, rwyf yn credu fod gennym rai o’r gweision cyhoeddus gorau yn y byd: y bobl sy’n dysgu yn ein hysgolion, y bobl sy’n gweithio yn ein hysbytai, ein diffoddwyr tân a’n heddlu, y bobl sy’n gweithio yn ein lluoedd arfog, ac eraill hefyd.

(Translation) There is deep symbolism, of course, to the fact that I can use the Welsh language in this debate and this Committee. In this place, so many years ago, it was decided that the Welsh language would not be the official language for Wales. In 1967, the first Welsh Language Act was passed when the late Cledwyn Hughes was the Secretary of State for Wales. Not only can we use the Welsh language, but we can truly say that Welsh is one of the Welsh Grand Committee’s official languages. It is therefore a very important day for us all.

We have an important topic before us today: the Budget. Throughout Wales and all of the UK, we have some of the best public servants in the world—the people who are teaching in our schools, the people who are working in our hospitals, our firefighters, our police officers, the people working in our armed forces and others.

Social Mobility (Wales)

Susan Elan Jones Excerpts

Tuesday 19th December 2017 Westminster Hall

[Chris Elmore]

I do not think for one second that Communities First funding was wasted. In fact, as a county councillor, I did work through some of the Communities First schemes in my county. Communities First has had positive outcomes across Wales. The Welsh Government have admitted that they now want to review how that funding will move forward, but the Minister cannot say that investing in our communities is a waste of money. It is nice to know what the Tories think of investing in communities up and down Wales.

We face real and deep challenges, but it is positive that Welsh Government Ministers are genuinely committed to addressing these complex societal issues. There are social mobility problems for us to reverse, but we should not forget that progress has been made. Unfortunately, that progress is grinding to a halt as a result of UK Government policy. The Welsh Government are working hard to increase prosperity and to help people out of poverty, but a continued agenda of cuts from Westminster and the severity of UK Government austerity is putting progress at risk. It is not simply that there is inaction on improving social mobility; there is an agenda that is taking us backwards.

According to the Institute for Fiscal Studies, 37% of children in the UK will be in relative poverty by 2022, which represents a reversal of all progress made in the past 20 years. On top of that, Shelter said that 128,000 children will wake up homeless in Britain on Christmas day. That fact alone should bring shame on the Government. If children grow up homeless or in poverty, their chances of success in life are greatly reduced, which puts a roadblock in the way of social mobility. Unfortunately, the Government in Westminster have shown no intention of focusing on social mobility and improving equality of opportunity.

Wales’s Children’s Commissioner and her three UK counterparts recently called on the Government to take action on the roll-out of universal credit, which is plunging the poorest children into poverty and will surely leave lasting marks on their life chances. Unfortunately, the rampant roll-out of universal credit is not the only Government policy that has led to children being plunged back into poverty. The bedroom tax, cuts to tax credits and the knock-on effects of cuts to Welsh Government block grants, which are leading to cuts in children’s services and youth services across the board, are having a detrimental impact on children’s life chances. If the Government carry on with their dogmatic cuts agenda, the impact on young people, and in turn social mobility, risks leaving a generation behind. Each of those policies is hitting children hard. As a result, one in three children in the UK is now growing up in poverty, and more than 1 million people are reliant on food banks.

The “Good Childhood” report published in August 2017 by the Children’s Society highlighted the fact that children and young people’s happiness is in decline, which has implications for attainment and social mobility. I am sure I do not need to remind Members that only a few weeks ago Alan Milburn and the entire board of the Government’s social mobility commission resigned in protest at the issue being “an afterthought”.

[Susan Elan Jones (Clwyd South) (Lab)]

Will my hon. Friend confirm that the resignation—I agree that it was hugely significant—included a former Conservative Cabinet Minister, Gillian Shephard? Social mobility is not a partisan issue; it is something we all need to be worried about if we care about the future of our countries of Wales and Britain.

[Chris Elmore]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right. The baroness in question is a former Secretary of State for Education and Employment. When a Conservative of that stature says, “This is not acceptable,” and that social mobility is now “an afterthought”, it is hugely concerning, so that mass resignation was worrying.

The commission’s “State of the nation” report and its focus on Wales are what I would like to draw to the attention of Members. The commission found that the percentage of individuals living in poverty in Wales is higher than in all regions of Great Britain except London and the west midlands, and that 26% of people earn an income below the living wage. Much of that seems to be due to the UK Government’s implementation of a public sector pay cap in Wales, which has denied our hard-working public sector employees a fair pay increase in seven years.

--- Later in debate ---

[Nick Thomas-Symonds]

I do not for a moment underplay the wider challenges. I agree with the hon. Lady about a holistic approach that involves support for teaching, but at the moment I am merely remarking that all the data suggest that those early years are important to the results achieved later, in particular at age 16.

My hon. Friend the Member for Ogmore mentioned the achievements of the previous Labour Government on child poverty, which are extremely important. It was the greatest of disappointments, to say the least, that in 2015 the UK Government chose to change the definition of child poverty, which seemed to me simply a way of escaping the problem, not facing it.

There seems to be a historical problem with vocational qualifications. Most people understand that in the post-war era the Butler Education Act 1944 created a system of grammar schools and secondary moderns, but it was never intended to be bipartite; it was meant to be tripartite and to include technical schools as well. In post-war Britain, we have not developed those technical schools as perhaps we should have done. That is not to neglect fine work on apprenticeships. In my constituency and elsewhere I have seen the work of the Welsh Government in that regard, but without doubt there is still more to do to promote apprenticeships as a career path and give them parity of esteem with academic qualifications.

Last summer I visited an ITV apprenticeship scheme. It was outside Wales, in Leeds, but none the less what I experienced there makes the point. I saw a very fine apprenticeship scheme in which people worked around television sets and so on, gaining skills that could be used in that environment or in a broader trade. The problem was that most of the apprentices told me that they had had to find the information about the opportunity themselves, on the internet; they did not hear about it from their career advisers. We need to promote the apprenticeships route at a far younger age throughout the United Kingdom.

University is not for everyone, but the fact remains that many of those in top public and private sector jobs around our country have attended Oxford, Cambridge or other universities in the Russell Group. A lot of recent statistics should alarm us. My right hon. Friend the Member for Tottenham (Mr Lammy) has produced a report showing a geographical domination of all those elite university places by students from the south-east of England. Freedom of information requests to local authorities paint a stark picture. From 2010 to 2015, eight students from the bottom eight local authorities, which includes Torfaen, received offers to go to Cambridge University. Contrast that with the top eight, which includes Surrey and Kent, where 4,800 offers were made in the same period. That division has to be dealt with. Frankly, it is not sustainable in the long term.

I worked as an Oxford University tutor and lecturer for 14 years from just after I graduated in 2001 until I was elected to Parliament in 2015. I had a great deal to do with the admissions process during that period, and I learned three clear lessons. Aspiration is of course vital. Whether we are talking about Oxford and Cambridge or about other elite universities, it is critical that people actually want to apply and are able to think, “This is something for me.” However, that is not enough in and of itself—there needs to be support around it. It always seemed to me that what marked out successful interviewees was their confidence and their ability to sell themselves. In the cases of Oxford and Cambridge, that applies to interviews, but it also applies more broadly across the university sector to personal statements and people’s ability to express what they have done.

The third lesson was about networking skills, which were always demonstrated in people’s personal statements by their extracurricular activities and work experience. People who existed in fine networks to begin with always had far more opportunities to use in the university admissions process than those who did not. We need to teach those skills right across our schools sector so that people have them at ages 15, 16, 17 and 18.

[Susan Elan Jones]

There are some chilling figures about that. I appreciate that it is quite a long time since I was at university, and I know that my old university, the University of Bristol, has improved considerably in this regard, but when I was there more than 70% of students in my faculty were independently educated. In one department in the faculty that figure was 91%, which is staggering.

[Nick Thomas-Symonds]

My hon. Friend makes a very good point. On average, around 7% of each cohort goes to fee-paying schools, but that percentage is far higher at our elite universities. Why might that be? My experience was that there were never enough applicants from the state sector in any cohort. As I indicated, we have to tackle that by demystification—by making things clear by saying to people: “There are no places that are not for you if you have the talent to get there.” That sounds easy, but I appreciate that it is a huge challenge.

My hon. Friend the Member for Caerphilly (Wayne David) mentioned the report of the Oxbridge ambassador for Wales, which I was pleased to play a small part in producing before I entered the House. Its author was my predecessor as Member of Parliament for Torfaen, Lord Murphy. The report, which, as my hon. Friend set out, was published in 2014, sought to address the scale of the problem and suggested a series of practical measures, which are being rolled out across Wales. We probably will not see the results of those measures immediately—we will have to see how they pan out in the years to come—but central to the report’s recommendations is the idea of having regional hubs in Wales. The skills that I have talked about—networking skills, and the ability to sell oneself in an interview and on paper—can be looked at on a regional basis. Schools can identify people who have the potential to go to our elite universities, and those people can go to hubs to be provided with that support. I firmly believe that that can make a difference. It has to, because the report highlighted that parts of Wales—incidentally, this applies not just to Wales but to other parts of the UK—are, frankly, deserts for Oxbridge applications.

We talk about university applications. Of course we want our universities to continue to be world leading. This is not about some sort of social engineering occurring at age 18; it is about the interests of our country. We must not lose some of our most talented people simply because they do not apply to universities because they think they are not for them.

Oral Answers to Questions

Susan Elan Jones Excerpts

Wednesday 13th December 2017 Commons Chamber

[Alun Cairns]

My right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for International Trade has established the UK Board of Trade, and I am pleased that Lord Rowe-Beddoe and Heather Stevens sit on it as Welsh representatives—their reputation goes well before them. Businesses are already responding. I have already quoted the encouraging export data, but clearly there is more work to do.

[Susan Elan Jones (Clwyd South) (Lab)]

If the Secretary of State is serious in his discussions about Wales’s international business links, why will he and the Government not publish the impact assessments? Is it not time these disappearing documents came to light?

[Alun Cairns]

We have published the 58 sectoral analyses, which cover all the sectors that are key to the Welsh economy, from steel to aerospace. Not only have we shared them with the Commons and the other place, but we have shared these 800 pages with the devolved Administrations, demonstrating the open, pragmatic approach we are taking to involving every part of the United Kingdom.

Rural Economy of Wales

Susan Elan Jones Excerpts

Tuesday 28th November 2017 Westminster Hall

[Susan Elan Jones (Clwyd South) (Lab)]

It is a great pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Hollobone. Congratulations are very much in order for the hon. Member for Ceredigion (Ben Lake), the Member for the Welsh midlands—I like the sound of that. I am not sure what the comparative term would be for Members from north Wales; I think we will stick to north Wales. [Interruption.] My right hon. Friend the Member for Delyn (David Hanson) said, “Scotland”. We will stick to north Wales—we have better weather, I think.

I am conscious of the importance of the subject of the debate. My own constituency includes many rural communities. I will not be able to name them all, which risks offending people, but in its 240 square miles are the villages in the Ceiriog valley, Minera, Llangollen, Corwen, Cynnwyd, Glyndyfrdwy, Carrog, Llandrillo, many of the Maelor villages and many other areas the main industry of which may not be farming but which involves a considerable amount of agriculture. I was interested to hear from the National Farmers Union Cymru that about 60,000 people in Wales are employed full or part-time in Welsh agriculture. That is a staggering number, especially when one considers the ramifications for other industries in those areas.

I do not always quote the Countryside Alliance, but I would like to do so today. [Interruption.] I am glad that the hon. Member for Carmarthen West and South Pembrokeshire (Simon Hart) agrees with me. The points that the Countryside Alliance has made on the issue are superb. It notes, for instance, that Wales exported £12.3 billion-worth of goods outside the UK in 2015, of which 67% went to the European Union. It makes the point that it is vital that the UK Government seek to maintain tariff-free access to EU markets for food and agricultural produce. It notes also that if the UK Government do not establish a new trade agreement with the EU before leaving and do not adopt World Trade Organisation terms, the £12 billion-worth of food and agricultural produce that the UK exports to the EU each year will face the prospect of high tariffs, which would be damaging to UK producers, including those in Wales, and to EU consumers. That shows that the future of the Welsh rural economy is inextricably linked to what happens in, and how the UK Government and others deal with, the Brexit negotiations.

My right hon. Friend the Member for Delyn made the point well about beef and lamb exports. We also need to note that farmers in Wales must never become a bargaining chip. If the UK Government—in their trade deals with large meat-exporting countries, such as New Zealand, Australia, Brazil and the USA—do not listen to our farming industry, that will be devastating for our rural economies. I know that the Minister has always, in himself, made positive noises about our relations with the EU, and I make the point to him that where there is a transfer of powers post-Brexit in areas that are currently devolved, it is vital that those powers are devolved to the Welsh Government.

One spark of light after Brexit—if it ever happens—might be what happens with the common agricultural policy, or CAP. The NFU, in what I think is the reverse of spin, made the point that although Wales has only 4.7% of the UK population it has 9% of the UK CAP allowances. I do not think that that was meant to be spin; I think it was meant to show how important the rural economy is to Wales. If we are to look at a new CAP that will apply Wales-wide and UK-wide, we need to reshape it in a way that makes it less interested in supporting the likes of the Duke of Westminster and more interested in supporting the Welsh hill farmer—for the many, not the few, and for small family farms.

Tourism, of course, is vital to any discussion on the Welsh economy, and I was delighted that the “Under the Arches” festival at Pontcysyllte aqueduct in my constituency won a prestigious north Wales tourism award. There is so much in my area that is connected with tourism, such as the Llangollen railway extending, as it will fairly soon, into the middle of Corwen; the Dee Valley area of outstanding natural beauty; and much that is developing in the Ceiriog valley and in many other places. Will the Minister support our plans locally for the vital adaptation of Ruabon station so that there can be better disability access? I am sure he would wish to support those efforts.

[Ian C. Lucas (Wrexham) (Lab)]

Does my hon. Friend agree that that worthwhile step would best be made in conjunction with the introduction of a half-hourly service between Chester and Shrewsbury, along one of the most beautiful railway lines in the United Kingdom, so that more people from the west midlands and the north-west of England, as well as from the rest of the country, could see just how good it is?

[Susan Elan Jones]

That is a wonderful idea.

I would also like to mention the Welsh Government’s rural development programme. It has been innovative, with support for food, timber and other businesses, as well as farm business grants and even a micro small business fund. Many companies in my constituency, and other areas, have benefited, and I welcome the diversity of projects it provides.

[Jonathan Edwards (Carmarthen East and Dinefwr) (PC)]

Is it not the case that the Labour Government’s economic policy for rural Wales has been a complete and utter failure? Does the hon. Lady agree with Baroness Morgan, who also serves in the Assembly, that there needs to be a dedicated economic plan for rural areas in Wales, and that that indicates that the Welsh Government have failed?

[Susan Elan Jones]

The hon. Gentleman always puts it so well in his own way, does he not? The points my good colleague Baroness Morgan made referred to the need for development programmes in specific areas. In the same way as we speak of the north Wales deal, I think she was thinking of something dedicated specifically to certain parts of west Wales. I think that the hon. Gentleman is being a bit mischievous in referring to our elected Government in Wales as a failure.

On the Welsh Government’s budget for the forthcoming year, I very much welcome the extra support on homelessness in the £340 million for the building of 20,000 affordable homes. We need to recognise that homelessness is not just an urban problem. I also welcome the courageous decision to suspend the right to buy on council houses. That was not an easy decision, and it was not uncontroversial in its day, but it made the point. The hon. Member for Carmarthen East and Dinefwr (Jonathan Edwards) might agree with me a little more on this point: if we are serious about tai, gwaith, iaith—houses, jobs, language—as a driver in rural Wales, we must look at that sort of policy.

I will say a quick word on rural areas in Wales, Welsh-speaking areas and planning laws. I very much support the Welsh Labour Government’s policy—it is supported by others, too—for 1 million Welsh speakers in Wales. That is an important policy, and consensus on it is vital.

I sometimes think we are a little reticent in Wales when it comes to planning issues. In some cases, that is simply because of our history as a nation, and that is a mistake. In Cornwall, Cumbria and other parts of the UK, people are prepared to look thoughtfully at issues connected with second homes and affordability. As we look at the rural economy and parts of Welsh-speaking Wales, we should not be frightened of doing that.

Finally, one has to say something about broadband. I am delighted to have been able to work with other representatives in making Gwynfryn, Llandrillo and a few other places a bit more connected. I welcome the Superfast Cymru project, but we have more to do to ensure that that is connected in every part of Wales.

Welsh Affairs

Susan Elan Jones Excerpts

Thursday 2nd March 2017 Commons Chamber

[Susan Elan Jones (Clwyd South) (Lab)]

Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker, and a belated happy St David’s day to you. It is a great pleasure to follow the hon. Member for Brecon and Radnorshire (Chris Davies), but he seems to have forgotten that St David’s mother, Non, went to live in Brittany in her later years. I hope that the Government will give some thought to that when they come to the reciprocal arrangements for EU citizens.

As we know, the ground around St David rose so that he could be heard by a crowd. But there is a second David of whom we must speak today: the David who thought that the ground around him would always rise, such was his belief in his great political gift to our country. With what Max Boyce would have called an incredible plan, this second David promised us a referendum on the EU, believing that his promises could never fail. Madam Deputy Speaker, I prefer the first David, our patron saint.

St David was quintessentially Welsh. He was almost always supported by followers, such as Aeddan, Teilo and Ysfael, and of course he also had the support of the great and the good—yes, even in the 6th and 7th centuries we had the great and the good in Wales—such as Deiniol, Dyfrig and the like. Across Wales yesterday there have been eisteddfodau, as indeed there will be today and over the weekend, such as the concert I will be attending in Rhosllanerchrugog tomorrow night, and there will be parades and other celebrations of culture. Let us therefore thank the great work of mentrau iaith, especially menter iaith Maelor across our borderland areas of Wales, for their promotion of Welsh language and culture.

I cannot let St David’s day—it is becoming St David’s week—pass without expressing my pleasure about the introduction of the Welsh language in this House in our Welsh Grand Committee, which is an historic change. I am pleased because I do not believe that there can be any understanding of Welsh political and cultural life that does not include an understanding of Welsh language rights. I am pleased because I think it goes some way towards righting an historic wrong. I am also pleased because I believe in a Wales that looks outwards, that does not beatify its borders—we hear so much nonsense on that subject today—and that does not want to create artificial walls between what is inside the Welsh border and what is Oswestry or the north-west of England. Those communities have been united with ours and there has been a relationship between the communities, not merely for decades, but for centuries. Let us leave the insular wall-building that separates people to the likes of Donald Trump in the United States, because it is so alien to our outward-looking vision of Welshness.

I know that every Member of this House—certainly every Welsh Member—will have in their constituencies heritage projects that should rightly be showcased and celebrated at this time. There are many such projects across the glorious 240 square miles of Clwyd South, but I will refer to only one today, the Brymbo heritage project, which has been set up by the Brymbo heritage group. The industrial village of Brymbo had a steelworks between 1796 and 1990—yes, its closure was another achievement of the great Mrs Thatcher. Today we are seeing the restoration of those buildings, with jobs being created and the community getting involved through volunteering, with oral histories, educational resources and various events.

I am delighted by the support that has been given to that project by the Welsh Government and the local council. I was even more pleased recently to see plans to convert the former steelworks building into a visitor centre, and a grant to fund architectural designs for an ambitious plan to convert a 1920s machine shop and regenerate the site further. I know that industrial sites in north-east Wales are not often what people think of when they think of our Welsh heritage. When we celebrate our Welshness, our culture and the two great languages of our nation, let us also remember the industrial heritage of north-east Wales and celebrate it. I wish everybody a happy St David’s day—I like saying this—Dydd Gŵyl Dewi hapus.

Wales Bill

Susan Elan Jones Excerpts

Ping Pong: House of Commons
Tuesday 24th January 2017 Commons Chamber

[Alun Cairns]

The hon. Gentleman tempts me to go down a route for which no decisions have been taken. We are keen to engage and discuss those matters and, as we have already said, we are keen to engage with the Welsh Government and the other devolved Administrations on future funding arrangements. I hope that the hon. Gentleman will recognise the fairness of the way we have approached the Barnett settlement and the fiscal framework, and that that will give him confidence that, as we hope, we will achieve a fair settlement for Wales and all parts of the United Kingdom as we exit the European Union.

[Susan Elan Jones (Clwyd South) (Lab)]

Will the Secretary of State give way?

[Alun Cairns]

I would like to make a little progress, but I will happily give way later if time permits.

We have agreed a fair way for the block grant to be adjusted to take account of tax devolution and the devolution of a portion of income tax, and a transitional multiplier of 105% in the Barnett formula that will give the Welsh Government additional money, over and above current levels, whenever we increase spending in a devolved area. That 105% demonstrates the even longer-term transition to getting down to the floor of 115%. We are doubling the Welsh Government’s capital borrowing limit, so that they will be able to borrow up to £1 billion —as the hon. Member for Torfaen (Nick Thomas-Symonds) pointed out a moment ago—to invest in infra- structure throughout Wales.

Lords amendment 9 puts the new capital borrowing limit in place now, so that it will be available as soon as the Welsh Government start to raise revenues through the taxes we are devolving. Lords amendment 44 ensures that Lords amendment 9 comes into force two months after Royal Assent, thereby putting the new borrowing limit into place well in advance of the devolution of tax powers. As the hon. Member for Torfaen rightly highlighted, that will allow the Welsh Government to get on with things that matter, and to legislate and use the new financial capacity that the Bill will grant. Taken with the Wales Bill, the agreement paves the way to making the Welsh Assembly a more powerful, accountable and mature institution, with greater powers and responsibilities to grow and support the Welsh economy.

The fiscal framework agreement resolves once and for all the perceived issues of underfunding that have overshadowed political debate in Wales for so long. It provides the Welsh Government with a powerful new borrowing limit to deliver much-needed infrastructure investment, and it ensures that the devolved Government in Wales can become truly accountable to the electorate by raising around a quarter of the money that they spend. Gone are the days when poor levels of public service in Wales could be blamed on perceived underfunding. For too long, funding was used as an excuse for poor outcomes, but not any longer. If they want big government, the Welsh Government could even raise taxes to pay for it. Or, if they want to reduce income tax levels, they could look to drive out inefficiencies and allow Wales to be seen in a new entrepreneurial light. I urge the House to agree to the Lords amendments.

--- Later in debate ---

[Liz Saville Roberts]

The Minister explained earlier that competition is a reserved matter. In this case, that prompts the question, what does such a dogma have to do with the reserved powers model for Wales, in relation to this most emotive of all subjects? My party and many people in Wales feel cheated. When the Minister played the card of water devolution, we were led to believe that this would be a real game changer, but I am afraid it is no more than smoke and mirrors.

We considered pushing Lords amendment 30 to a vote, but we will spare the Chamber such an exercise, given that we might only manage to tweak the wording of something we have already opposed. I want the record to reflect, however, that my hon. Friends and I will not be taken in by empty words dressed up as substance from the Government. This remains a cynical political sleight of hand—endeavouring to gain capital from an historical event of deep emotional significance in Wales.

[Susan Elan Jones]

As much as two words can ever encapsulate a feeling or a sense, the two words “Cofiwch Dryweryn”—“Remember Tryweryn”—probably do so. I hope that we will not look back at this year and think of another four words, “Cofiwch Dwr Dyffryn Dyfrdwy” —“Remember Dee Valley Water”—as encapsulating the spirit of our age.

My hon. Friend the Member for Wrexham (Ian C. Lucas) spoke very powerfully about a difficulty in our part of north-east Wales that threatens the livelihoods of many people working for the local water company. In a sense, it is a David and Goliath battle, but there is real fear that David may not win on this occasion. David is in the courts tomorrow, so we cannot speak about many of the intricacies of the situation. We can say, however, that one of the UK’s smallest water companies—indeed, it may be the smallest, but I need to check that—which has the fourth lowest bills of any water company in the United Kingdom, is in court against its Goliath on issues involving the votes of shareholders.

In north-east Wales, we have seen what used to be called the unacceptable face of capitalism, with a nasty, large predator coming in and trying to take over a local company quite against the will of the local workforce and the local consumers. That, I fear, is a cause of great regret. I will not repeat what my hon. Friend said about the issues concerning us—the role of the Competition and Markets Authority, and its lack of linkage in terms of devolution to the Welsh Assembly, and that of Ofwat—but he made some very serious and important points about the future of water in our area. I know that great symbolism attaches to Tryweryn, and rightly so. The chair of the action committee of Tryweryn, T. W. Jones, was also a resident of my constituency. T. W., as he was known, fought valiantly for that campaign.

I urge this House and Ministers, as we approach the welcome devolution of water, to think carefully about what is happening with Dee Valley Water and to look carefully at aspects of company law. Surely this cannot be right, given the views of local people, shareholders and the employees of the company. If local ownership matters to us, surely a predatory takeover is in nobody’s interests, other than the large predator itself. I urge the Minister to give thought to the points that my hon. Friend and I have made. I welcome the proposals that devolve water to the Welsh Government. I agree that it is totemic and symbolic, but most of all, I want something that works, especially for people in north-east Wales.

[Mr Mark Williams]

I will say a few words about clause 46 and Lords amendment 30 on the water protocol.

Every time I travel south in my constituency, I go past a famous piece of graffiti that says “Cofiwch Dryweryn” on the outskirts of the village of Llanrhystud. Intermittently, that acceptable bit of graffiti has been vandalised by others. No sooner has it been vandalised than it is restored to glory, as it should be. As the hon. Member for Dwyfor Meirionnydd (Liz Saville Roberts) and the Government have acknowledged, such issues need to be dealt with sensitively and history does not always dim those sensitivities.

In that spirit, I reflect on the long gestation of the water protocol. It was recommended by Sir Paul Silk in February 2015. I remember being my party’s representative, alongside the predecessor of the hon. Member for Dwyfor Meirionnydd, Elfyn Llwyd, in the Wales Office when we went through the Silk recommendations and came across the devolution of water and sewerage responsibilities. It was altogether easier to dispense with sewerage than water. The officials were charged with looking at this issue because it was complex, not least because the responsibilities of water companies had to be assigned across national boundaries.

I am pleased that the Government—my party in association with the Conservative party—acknowledged in the St David’s day agreement that there should be a water protocol. On paper at least, the protocol makes eminent sense, although it would be a lot easier for us to pass judgment on it if we had a draft or, indeed, any assessment of the criteria under which it will work. Their lordships made the point that more detail would have been helpful, and so too would a timescale. We are dependent on the Bill being passed, and then the protocol will swing into action. I look to the Minister to give us some indication of the timescale.

Concerns were raised in the other place, right up to the end of proceedings. I will summarise them, and again I look to the Minister to assure me that these matters will be dealt with. Their lordships were looking for a clear statement that the National Assembly has total legislative control over the creation of reservoirs in Wales and for the Assembly to have legislative control over all matters relating to water in all of Wales, coterminous with Wales’s border. Is the Minister satisfied that those questions will be adequately addressed by the protocol once it is enacted?

--- Later in debate ---

[Alun Cairns]

I will come on to that specific point, because a review is being conducted by the Department for Culture, Media and Sport which will address the specific issues that the hon. Gentleman raises. For the moment, I shall stick to explaining the rationale behind the amendments on fixed odds betting terminals.

One proposal was for the powers to be devolved to stop the proliferation of these so-called fixed odds betting terminals. We concluded that these powers should be devolved in Wales, as they are in Scotland, coming out of the Smith commission. Amendments 36 and 52 therefore ensure that the Bill mirrors the provisions in the Scotland Act 2016 in respect of high-stakes gaming machines. The amendments apply to sub-category B2 gaming machines, and would provide the Welsh Government with a means to address public concerns in Wales regarding the proliferation of these machines. These machines were regulated by the Gambling Act 2005, which was introduced when the Labour party was in power.

The Opposition amendments would go much further than what is already devolved in the Scotland Act by extending this provision to all existing gaming machines with a stake of more than £2, and by devolving powers over existing licences. We did not believe that that was appropriate. As I mentioned a moment ago, the Government have already announced a review into the issue because we recognised the flaws in the 2005 Act. As a result, we are carrying out a thorough process to examine all aspects of gaming machine regulation, including the categorisation, maximum stakes and prizes, location and number of machines, and the impact that they have on players and the communities in relation to, for instance, problem gambling and crime. All those factors are potentially relevant and interrelated. The powers that we have agreed to devolve are intended to enable the Welsh Government and the Assembly to take action to prevent the proliferation of fixed odds betting terminals.

The review that we have announced is the appropriate mechanism for consideration of all those issues in a far more holistic way. I urge Opposition Members not to press their amendments to a vote, but if they pursue them, I shall do my best to respond to some of the issues that concern them. I urge Members to support the Lords amendments.

[Susan Elan Jones]

I support Labour’s amendment (a) to Lords amendment 36, which would reduce the relevant stake for fixed odds betting terminals to £2. I welcome the review that is being carried out by the Department for Culture, Media and Sport, and I also welcome the move to devolve this power to the Welsh Assembly. My reason for doing so is very much in line with all the work that has been done by my hon. Friend the Member for Swansea East (Carolyn Harris), but I fear that we could find ourselves in a ridiculous position. All of us—apart from certain advocates for the betting industry—know that what is happening with fixed odds betting terminals is deeply concerning. Figures as high as about £1.7 billion have been quoted as the profits made on these horrible machines, which cause so much devastation in our communities. We all agree that something must be done fairly urgently, but I fear that the House of Commons could collectively vote to put in place a stake of below £10 but then, if we pass the Lords amendment as it stands, the stake could be reduced only to a minimum of £10 in Wales. That does not seem right to me.

Let me put it another way. Collectively, the House could vote for a maximum stake of £2 in England and Wales, but once the matter is devolved to Wales, the Welsh Government would be limited to £10 and then the House of Commons could not go for a lower stake here, simply because the Government would tell us that that this was a case of English votes for English laws and we would be banned from lowering the stake.

All we are asking for is something very pragmatic—something that would give us the right to decide the level of the stake and benefit communities. Let us make no bones about it: these machines, and what is happening in the gambling industry, are hitting our poorest communities the hardest. We see the impacts of it in our industrial villages and in our towns. Let us say once and for all to the harder elements of the gaming industry, some of whom I am sure will be e-mailing us all later, that the nonsense of what is happening with FOBTs must come to an end. Let us say, “Do not think you can intimidate us, or those in the communities who are fed up with the hold that you have on them.”

It is time for us to act firmly. It is time for us to give the Welsh Government full devolution in this regard. It is time for us to lower the stake even further, if possible. It is time for the Welsh Government to have the power to do that, and, hopefully, this place will as well.

[Jo Stevens]

As the Secretary of State has pointed out, there are a lot of amendments in the group, many of which are welcome and deal with important issues. Given the limited time that is available, however, I shall focus on Lords amendment 36 and our amendments to it.

We welcome the Government’s Lords amendment, as we did when it was moved in the other place, but, as has already been said, we want it to go further. Today gives us the opportunity to achieve that. Our main point of contention with the amendment is that it limits the powers that are being devolved to the Welsh Assembly to regulate fixed odds betting terminals. That ability to regulate will apply only to machines licensed after the Bill becomes law that have a stake of £10 and above.

The Campaign for Fairer Gambling has been campaigning on this issue for some time. It has been an invaluable source of help in our work on the amendments, so I want to put on record my thanks to it. I also thank the all-party group on fixed odds betting terminals, which is so ably chaired by my hon. Friend the Member for Swansea East (Carolyn Harris). It has just completed its inquiry into the machines and is due to publish its report very shortly.

Oral Answers to Questions

Susan Elan Jones Excerpts

Wednesday 30th November 2016 Commons Chamber

[Alun Cairns]

Like the hon. Gentleman, I have a lot of confidence in the Welsh red meat sector. I am sure that our European nations do not want to go without our high-quality Welsh red meat. We are determined to support our farmers in gaining the most open trading relationship possible, so that European nations can continue to enjoy the quality of Welsh produce.

[Susan Elan Jones (Clwyd South) (Lab)]

7. What assessment he has made of the potential effect of the UK exiting the EU on businesses and employees in Wales.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Wales (Guto Bebb)]

I recognise that many businesses in Wales have an important relationship with the EU, but, as a whole, Welsh businesses export more to countries outside the European Union. In leaving the EU, we will seek new opportunities for businesses across the UK, including in Wales, as we build on our strengths as an open, dynamic trading nation.

[Susan Elan Jones]

The Minister will know full well that he has not really answered my question. Can he tell us whether his officials have made any estimate of how many jobs in Wales will be lost if the UK leaves the single market and what he and his Government are planning to do about it?

[Guto Bebb]

I am somewhat disturbed by the hon. Lady’s comments. Time and again, I hear Opposition parties talking down the Welsh economy. I want to talk up the Welsh economy, as do the Welsh Government. As we start this process, we have fewer people out of work in Wales now than since 2010, and our economy is growing faster than many parts of the UK. She should be talking up Wales, not talking it down.

Oral Answers to Questions

Susan Elan Jones Excerpts

Wednesday 19th October 2016 Commons Chamber

[Alun Cairns]

My hon. Friend highlights the investment in the Great Western main line, and much attention is rightly drawn to the infrastructure of the electrification itself. However, it is fair to say that, as soon as we have electrified as far as Didcot or Swindon, the new trains will be operational, so his constituents, my constituents and those in Wales and the south-west in general will benefit from modern trains well before the infrastructure has been completed.

[Susan Elan Jones (Clwyd South) (Lab)]

Roads are critical in infrastructural investment—roads on both sides of the border. What conversations has the right hon. Gentleman had with the Welsh Government about the A5/A483, which goes from Oswestry towards the Wrexham area, given the particular road safety problems in the community of Chirk?

[Alun Cairns]

The hon. Lady raises an important point. It is something that has crossed the discussions over the north Wales growth deal, and it underlines the interconnectivity of the region she mentions with Manchester, Merseyside and north Wales. We are working closely with the Welsh Government on their infrastructure plan and the national infrastructure plans for the whole of the United Kingdom. It is important that they dovetail appropriately.