Committee on Standards: Decision of the House

Steve Barclay Excerpts

Monday 8th November 2021 Commons Chamber

[The Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster and Minister for the Cabinet Office (Steve Barclay)]

Mr Speaker—

[Hon. Members]

Where is the Prime Minister?

[Mr Speaker]

Order. To those who are shouting, “Where is the Prime Minister?” I say that the Prime Minister phoned me this morning, as did the leader of the Scottish National party, the right hon. Member for Ross, Skye and Lochaber (Ian Blackford), and they told me that neither of them could be with us. They have given their reasons and whether they are right, wrong or indifferent, I do not make judgments. I can only say on the behalf of the two people concerned—both leaders—that one is at COP26 and the other is visiting hospitals in the north-east. That is where the Prime Minister is, so I do not need to hear “Where is he?” all the way through the debate. I have explained it and Members can make their own decisions.

[Steve Barclay]

Thank you, Mr Speaker.

I am grateful to the hon. Member for North East Fife (Wendy Chamberlain) for securing and opening this debate. The Government have been listening carefully to the legitimate concerns raised by right hon. and hon. Members from all parts of the House, both during and since last Wednesday’s debate. These matters are vitally important to you, Mr Speaker, and to the whole House.

Before I set out the Government’s position, I would like, first, to express my regret and that of my ministerial colleagues over the mistake made last week. We recognise that there are concerns throughout the House about the standards system and the process by which possible breaches of the code of conduct are investigated.

[Peter Kyle (Hove) (Lab)]

Will the Minister give way on that point?

--- Later in debate ---

[Steve Barclay]

I will in a moment.

Although sincerely held concerns clearly warrant further attention, the manner in which the Government approached last week’s debate conflated them with the response to an individual case. This House shares a collective interest in ensuring that the code of conduct reflects and fosters the highest standards of public life. The Government fully recognise that the Standards Committee is critical to that, including in respect of the important role performed by its Chairman, the hon. Member for Rhondda (Chris Bryant).

[Peter Kyle]

The Minister has already offered one apology; will he give another to residents who live in constituencies with MPs whom his Front-Bench team and Whips threatened with the withdrawal of spending in their communities to punish them for thinking about not voting for the amendment last week? Will he apologise to those residents, who are innocent bystanders? It is not their fault that money can be taken out of their communities simply because of something their MP does on a matter of conscience.

[Steve Barclay]

I think the hon. Gentleman prepared that intervention before he heard from my hon. Friend the Member for Newcastle-under-Lyme (Aaron Bell), who said that, despite his voting against the Government, that was a misrepresentation of the conversations he had.

[Ms Harriet Harman (Camberwell and Peckham) (Lab)]

Will the right hon. Gentleman explain why he is speaking in this debate rather than the Leader of the House, whose job it is to deal with the standards decision? Is this not adding insult to injury and showing that the Government really do not understand the issue?

[Steve Barclay]

With due respect, first, my right hon. Friend the Leader of the House is in the Chamber with me and, secondly, the right hon. and learned Lady well knows, not least as the Mother of the House, that the Cabinet Office overseas the Government response across Departments, including on a number of the issues covered by this issue.

[Graham Stringer (Blackley and Broughton) (Lab)]

I appreciate the right hon. Gentleman’s apology on the behalf of the Government and am sure that other Members will, too, but will he commit to the House that future disciplinary matters are matters for the House, not for the Government?

[Steve Barclay]

As has been set out by the Prime Minister and other colleagues in the Government, we are committed to working on a cross-party basis, including with the Chair of the Standards Committee, which is why I recognise the important role he performs and had just picked that out in my remarks. We thank him and, indeed, the Committee’s lay members for their service, as we do the Parliamentary Commissioner for Standards. I reiterate that the Government have previously taken and will continue to take a cross-party approach to issues around standards in this House.

[Kevin Hollinrake (Thirsk and Malton) (Con)]

Like my hon. Friend the Member for Newcastle-under-Lyme (Aaron Bell), I received no pressure whatsoever in terms of the way I voted last week.

My right hon. Friend has set out a gracious apology for what happened last week, but will he concede that one thing that was not right with the amendment the Government supported was that the members of the proposed Committee were hand-picked? If the standards of this House are to be reformed, would it not be better for such a Committee to be chaired by somebody who is elected by this whole House and for the Committee members also to be elected in the normal way for Select Committee members?

[Steve Barclay]

As I just set out, we are committed to working on a cross-party basis and we regret that many hon. Members did not feel that they had been sufficiently consulted on the proposals last week. I simply refer to the article in The Times by the Chair of the Standards Committee, who said:

“I’m sure we need to review both the code of conduct and the way it operates.”

He went on to say that

“there are good arguments in favour of a more formal additional process, whereby a member could appeal against the sanction either to an outside body or to a sub-committee of the standards committee”.

It was to that that the debate turned last week.

[Chris Bryant (Rhondda) (Lab)]

rose—

[Seema Malhotra (Feltham and Heston) (Lab/Co-op)]

rose—

[Steve Barclay]

I give way to the hon. Lady.

[Seema Malhotra]

I thank the Minister for giving way. Last week was UK Parliament Week, but it was not our finest hour. Does he agree that, at the very least, a message from this debate must be that we work in our constituents’ interests and in the public interest, and that the use of this House to work in the private interest to the tune of hundreds of thousands of pounds will not be tolerated?

[Steve Barclay]

I did not see that the Chair of the Standards Committee was seeking to grab my attention. We are committed to working on a cross-party basis and, with that in mind, of course I will give way to him.

[Chris Bryant]

I am very grateful to the right hon. Gentleman and acknowledge the apology that he has given on behalf of the Government. None the less, the whole of Parliament is still in a bit of a hole. We still have a motion that was carried last week, which leaves the question of Mr Paterson’s conduct hanging in the air. Earlier today, I gave a draft of a motion that, were the Government to table it tonight, could be considered by the House tomorrow. I think that it would have the support of the whole House in clearing up the fact that, as you referred to, Mr Speaker, we have not actually decided whether Mr Paterson’s behaviour was inappropriate. I think the whole House now accepts that it was. Secondly, we have created a Committee which, I think, even the right hon. Member for Maldon (Mr Whittingdale), who is meant to be chairing it, does not want to be on any more.

--- Later in debate ---

[Chris Bryant]

It would be quite a good idea if we could clear this up tomorrow before we go into recess. I hope the Minister will say now that he will table that motion later on today.

[Steve Barclay]

I have been very clear that we will listen to the House and listen to the debate. [Interruption.] Will the hon. Member for Washington and Sunderland West (Mrs Hodgson) just let me address the point made by the Chair of the Committee on Standards? Mr Paterson has now resigned, so it would not be possible for the House to endorse a sanction of suspension. I simply remind the House that he has suffered a serious personal tragedy. He has now resigned. In his statement, he said that he wants to continue his politics outside public life, and we should respect that. I hope, through your office, Mr Speaker, that there will be a way for us to engage on a cross-party basis, and that is what the Government will now redouble their efforts to engage on in the days ahead.

[Andy McDonald (Middlesbrough) (Lab)]

I am grateful to the Minister for giving way. There is not anybody in this House who does not have the utmost sympathy for Mr Paterson’s plight, but we do have to remember that he said he would do exactly the same if the opportunity presented itself. I am grateful that the Minister has rendered his apology, but does he not think it more appropriate that the Prime Minister attends and gives his apology rather than being in the north-east of England defending the conduct of his police and crime commissioners, one of whom has had to resign over inappropriate remarks and another of whom is under investigation?

[Steve Barclay]

With respect, Mr Speaker dealt with that at the opening of this debate and made it clear that both the Prime Minister and the Leader of the SNP had discussed with him the debate today.

[Bob Seely (Isle of Wight) (Con)]

I abstained last week, so I thank the Government absolutely for the apology; it is completely the right thing to do. I want to put on record that, despite the fact that I abstained and I occasionally have the misfortune to vote against this Government, they continue to be nothing but supportive of both myself and the people of the Isle of Wight.

[Steve Barclay]

It is helpful to get that on the record.

The Government will now redouble our efforts to engage on a cross-party basis—and, indeed with you, Mr Speaker—in the days ahead, because we know what we can achieve when we do so. For example, in collaboration with others, my right hon. Friend the Member for South Northamptonshire (Dame Andrea Leadsom) worked hard when she was Leader of the House to establish the Independent Complaints and Grievance Scheme. The scheme, to which the Government are wholly committed, is a model with many strengths. It includes an appeals process and an ability to adjudicate complex cases by virtue of its independent expert panel that is led by a High Court judge. Overall, the Independent Complaints and Grievance Scheme brings with it the expectation of rigour, impartiality and fairness for both the complainant and respondent.

[Simon Hoare (North Dorset) (Con)]

It would be of enormous help to the House if we could understand the Government’s thinking on the issue to which the hon. Member for Rhondda (Chris Bryant) alluded. The amended motion last week was passed; I voted against it, but it was passed. What is its status now? There seems to be a general consensus that the rules that we deploy with regards to standards should be reviewed. Are they to be reviewed under the current auspices, or under the auspices of the amended motion last week, with some shadow or secondary standards Committee looking at them? I think the House would find it helpful to know that we are going to work through the procedures in existence today and effectively expunge the amended motion from the record of last week.

[Steve Barclay]

It is clear that the Committee agreed by the House last week will not be able to develop proposals without cross-party participation, which is why we are continuing discussions and listening to views from across the House about the best way forward.

[Richard Burgon (Leeds East) (Lab)]

Let me attempt to help the Government. Is not the root cause of all this MPs trying to get paid even more than the £82,000 a year that they already get? I should not have to remind the Government that 95% of the public get paid less than MPs, nor that being an MP is a full-time job. Chasing corporate cash is, quite simply, short-changing the public. Will the Minister agree to help to clean up politics by backing my Bill to ban second, third, fourth, fifth, sixth and seventh jobs for Members of Parliament?

[Steve Barclay]

I am not sure whether all Members on the Opposition Benches would support that proposal, because there is value in MPs having a continued connection with the world outside of politics. Banning all second jobs would have captured some in this House who work, for example, as doctors or nurses, and have supported the NHS through the pandemic. It makes sense to build on the work of my right hon. Friend the Member for South Northamptonshire and the procedure that she developed when she was Leader of the House.

We share a commitment to a system that encourages and communicates the right values, attitudes and behaviour, and that makes it clear to Members that in performing their parliamentary duties, they are expected always to act in the public interest, with courtesy, professionalism and respect.

[Clive Efford (Eltham) (Lab)]

I am grateful to the Minister for his apology, as far as it went. Last week, it was quite clear that the Government did not agree with the recommendations in the Standards Committee’s report, so I am not clear today: are the Government saying that they now agree that Owen Paterson behaved badly and incorrectly, or are they just apologising for the process that they imposed on us last week?

[Steve Barclay]

What I am saying is that Mr Paterson has left Parliament; he has resigned, and therefore suspending him from the House would no longer be applicable.

It is the work of every Member to safeguard Parliament’s reputation by upholding its principles and abiding by its rules. Moving ahead, our shared responsibility is to identify and seize opportunities to improve the system—to ensure that it is robust and fair, that is commands the confidence of Members and our constituents, and that it is aligned with the fundamental principles of natural justice. To that end, I welcome forthcoming contributions from colleagues. I can assure you, Mr Speaker, that the Government will be listening carefully to the insights and views of Members from across the House.