Personal Independence Payments

Steve Baker Excerpts

Thursday 13th December 2012 Commons Chamber

[Esther McVey]

I will continue to engage with the right hon. Gentleman; we met only yesterday. We inherited a confused system in which over 50% of people did not have medical support for their claims and 71% of people were left on indefinite awards. We want to engage with people and ensure that those who are most in need of support will get it. We do not want to penalise anybody who is trying their best. It is not about that; it is about offering support where it is most needed.

[Steve Baker (Wycombe) (Con)]

Will my hon. Friend confirm that the Government will spend about £50 billion on services and benefits for disabled people, and will she set out how that compares and contrasts with similar countries?

[Esther McVey]

I can indeed confirm that my hon. Friend is right. We continue to spend £50 billion a year on support for disabled people, which is a fifth higher than the EU average. We are a world leader in how we deal with people with disabilities.

Welfare Reform Bill

Steve Baker Excerpts

Wednesday 1st February 2012 Commons Chamber

[Stephen Timms]

If the hon. Gentleman looks at the amendment, he will see that it refers to a period of “at least 730” days. That was proposed precisely because there is as yet no evidence—certainly not from the Department—about what the right period should be. We can be absolutely sure, however, that it should not be less than two years, for all the reasons that I have just outlined.

[Steve Baker (Wycombe) (Con)]

The right hon. Gentleman makes a heart-rending case, but will he tell us what assessment he has made of the extra cost of moving to a two-year limit?

[Stephen Timms]

Those figures were quoted extensively in our debate. Our view is simply this: we should not be taking large sums of money from people who are recovering from cancer or from a stroke, and who have been told throughout their lives that if they paid into the national insurance system, they would be able to get help when they needed it. That pledge needs to be honoured, even by this Government.

Let me turn to Lords amendment 15 and the question of the youth passport. It is astonishing that the spiteful policy towards disabled young people remained in the Bill for so long. It is even more astonishing to see the Minister now trying to ram it back in today, after the other place took it out. The current principle is that people who have been disabled since birth or childhood should be passported on to a contributory benefit. In Committee, the Minister described the principle as an “oddity”, but it has been well established since the 1970s and backed by Tory Ministers throughout the 1980s and 1990s. Only now are this Government trying to scrap it. It provides an independent income for severely disabled people whose disability started before they had a chance to work. The Minister wants to deny them that. The principle that young people who are disabled from birth ought to be able to rely on a secure independent income might seem odd to him; to most people, it is simply right.

The Government’s impact assessment justifies this change, disgracefully, on the basis of simplifying the system.

Pensions Bill [Lords]

Steve Baker Excerpts

Tuesday 18th October 2011 Commons Chamber

[Steve Baker (Wycombe) (Con)]

The right hon. Member for East Ham (Stephen Timms) set out his misgivings about the Bill. I share some of his trepidation about the effects on the group of women that we have discussed, but I shall be supporting the Government because I disagree with the hon. Members for Edinburgh East (Sheila Gilmore) and for Hampstead and Kilburn (Glenda Jackson), who sought to set out our financial position and compare our debt to that after the second world war. I wish that our financial context was as simple as just the size of the national debt. I have the figures and charts on my iPad: shortly after the second world war the Government were running a surplus—the second largest run since the second world war. It was beaten only in 1970. I would make another point about how the welfare state was founded.

[Sheila Gilmore]

In terms of annual expenditure, I do not disagree with that, but the surplus was so high partly because personal taxation levels were considerably higher than they are today.

[Steve Baker]

I am grateful for the hon. Lady’s point, because she seems to have pre-empted me—as I rewind on my iPad back to the chart showing taxation. [Interruption.] Between 1940 and 1950 the total level of taxation taken out of the economy rose from about 12% to 40% and it has stayed at about 40% since 1970. The context therefore is very different. The Government can only fund themselves through taxation, borrowing and currency debasement. If I wind forward and have a look at the charts on currency debasement, I can tell her that we have been furiously debasing the currency since 1971, which is the reason for the current mess we are in.

I also point out to the hon. Lady that the Bank for International Settlements has provided a number of charts setting out the debt projections for most of the western world, all of which look catastrophic. For example, in the United Kingdom—[Interruption.] Aren’t iPads useful! The BIS tells us that on the trajectory we inherited from Labour, our national debt would have reached 500% of gross domestic product by 2040. By then our debt interest payments would have been one quarter—

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Lindsay Hoyle)]

Order. I am sure that the hon. Gentleman is using his iPad very well, but I hope that he will come to Third Reading, which he should be mentioning.

[Steve Baker]

The financial context now is quite different from that in previous years. If the Government were not to address the pensions crisis within a realistic financial context, we would have a financial catastrophe. We would find ourselves, by 2040, attempting to spend one quarter of GDP on debt interest. It would be catastrophic—and much as my heart goes out to those ladies who I wish were not being affected by the Bill, because of the financial position in which we find ourselves I shall, of course, support the Government.

Welfare Reform Bill

Steve Baker Excerpts

Wednesday 15th June 2011 Commons Chamber

[Maria Miller]

The hon. Lady will know that we have had a call for evidence, and we will be considering the many different views of the organisations she mentions. We will of course want to work with those organisations to make sure that our policies work well. I remember some confusion in Committee about whether we were talking about the social fund or the discretionary social fund, so perhaps we need to make sure that people really understand our policy. Empowering local organisations at local level—the sorts of organisations that the hon. Lady named—to work with vulnerable groups in the individual community will, I think, be welcomed by many organisations on the ground.

[Steve Baker (Wycombe) (Con)]

Does my hon. Friend share my slight puzzlement that the left seems to have abandoned the rich tradition of mutuality and self-help that was the foundation of the Labour movement? I am not hearing very much about that from the Opposition.

[Maria Miller]

I thank my hon. Friend for his intervention. I too was thinking about some of the speeches earlier this week; responsibility and empowering people are vital.

Amendment 39 misses the point when it proposes a pilot scheme to determine the feasibility of whatever scheme would replace the discretionary social fund. It would be impossible to run a pilot scheme for each local authority. We could run only a single pilot scheme, which would lead to our stifling any ideas local authorities might have about how to improve their local area. I hope that my experience of local authorities is no different from that of the hon. Member for Westminster North. They really understand their responsibilities to the most vulnerable groups in society and rather than deprioritising them, which is the inference from her comments, they are very much a priority. Those groups may not have a strong voice at the ballot box, but most councillors I meet are very motivated about getting the right support to them.

--- Later in debate ---

[Sheila Gilmore]

Will the Secretary of State give way?

[Steve Baker (Wycombe) (Con)]

Will the Secretary of State give way?

[Mr Duncan Smith]

I will give way only once or twice more, and I give way now to my hon. Friend.

[Steve Baker]

I am most grateful to the Secretary of State. Will he join me in reminding the House that, by dint of great effort, in 2011-12—[Interruption]—I assure the hon. Member for Glasgow East (Margaret Curran) that this comes from the HMRC website, not the Whips—the pay-as-you-earn tax threshold will be just £7,475 a year? Will he also remind the House that the people paying tax—that is, paying tax to pay the benefits that others are in receipt of—are actually poorly paid and that a year’s pay on the national minimum wage is just £12,300? Will he join me in recognising that it is an issue of social justice that we should introduce the benefits cap?

[Mr Speaker]

Order. May I just remind Members that interventions should be brief? I know that the Secretary of State and others will be conscious that other people want to speak in the debate.

Oral Answers to Questions

Steve Baker Excerpts

Monday 13th June 2011 Commons Chamber

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Work and Pensions (Maria Miller)]

I should like to reassure the hon. Gentleman that this Government’s policy is to continue with the modernisation plan, and there have not been further closures of Remploy factories. We will, however, look carefully at the recommendations of the report issued last week, which included recommendations on the future of Remploy. We will fully consult on that before going forward, and I am sure that that could well include what the hon. Gentleman suggested.

[Steve Baker (Wycombe) (Con)]

T6. On behalf of Micklefield job club in my constituency, a strictly voluntary effort to help people back into work, and on behalf of GB Job Clubs, a charity that supports a national network of like clubs, may I ask what the Government will do to ensure that the state does not crush such voluntary provision?

[Chris Grayling]

I should like to reassure my hon. Friend that I have made sure that there are no attempts within Jobcentre Plus and the Department for Work and Pensions to track and monitor and data-manage and performance-manage. This is a grass-roots movement. Our role is to provide a degree of local encouragement, and sometimes some initial funding to clubs to get up and running, but after that it is very much up to them to shape their destiny, and up to us to champion their success, but not to interfere.

Welfare Reform Bill

Steve Baker Excerpts

Wednesday 9th March 2011 Commons Chamber

[Geraint Davies (Swansea West) (Lab/Co-op)]

This is a mean-minded, ill-thought-out Bill that is not designed to promote fairness or help people into work. Rather, its purpose is to punish the poor, the disabled, those with children, those trying to save and those starting a small business for the cost of the greed and recklessness of City bankers, who created our deficit. That is laid at the door of the poor, while those responsible indulge in sharing £8 billion of banker bonuses under a system propped up by the taxpayer, whereby if risks go wrong the public pay and if they go right the bankers profit.

[Steve Baker (Wycombe) (Con)]

I share the hon. Gentleman’s sense that the banking system is responsible for the greatest injustices in our society, which I fight often, but, as has been pointed out, these reforms long predate the banking crisis.

[Geraint Davies]

I shall come on to the reforms.

The deficit was the price paid to avoid a depression, and the Government had a clear choice: they could halve the deficit in four years by focusing on economic growth and making the bankers pay their fair share while also making savings over time that are fair and do not harm economic growth. The alternative, which the Government have chosen, was to cut the deficit at twice that pace, clearing it in half the time—in four years. That is a “formidable” challenge, according to the Institute for Fiscal Studies, which says that the Government need a plan B.

There is an over-reliance on savage cuts, particularly to public sector jobs and the welfare benefits we are considering today. That will throw whole communities into poverty, with a third of a million public sector redundancies triggering a further 1 million private sector job losses, which will cost an extra £7 billion a year in benefit costs and lost tax. The benefits of those thrown on to the dole will be cut, forcing them, in the worst instances, into community projects like criminals when they cannot find work. Why is this happening? It is happening because the Government have thrown a bucket of water over the embers of economic growth that Labour had kindled.

--- Later in debate ---

[Steve Baker (Wycombe) (Con)]

I rise to speak in support of the Government, very conscious that a large number of people will have legitimate and sincere concerns about the Bill. For example, I asked one local activist, who leads the Zacchaeus 2000 Trust, to critique the Prime Minister’s recent speech, and his response ran to 23 pages. I regret that due to the time I will not be able to share his concerns, but I will forward them to the Government, as a matter of interest.

I do not think there can be any doubt that the system is currently failing the very people that it is intended to help. I want to share with the House two stories from my constituents—one that shows the imperative for change and one that has slightly broader applicability.

Miss Rachel Pepin came to see me in a state of some anguish. She is a struggling single mum who wants to work more. She is in employment and the work is there for her, but she cannot take it because of the benefits system. She has two sons whose father will not support them. It seems that every time the Child Support Agency catches up with him, he drops out on to jobseeker’s allowance. Her current housing benefit receipt makes it profitable to stay on income support and actively not to seek work. She has reached the conclusion that it simply does not pay her to stay in employment. She sees her neighbours—on benefits—better off than she is.

I am glad to say that that is not how Rachel Pepin wants to live. She wants to work, and she is struggling against the treacle of the present system. It is letting her down, and that must end. Not everyone will share her admirable work ethic. Many will make the wrong choice when faced with the choice between being better off and doing the right thing. We must ensure that work is better for everyone, or we will encourage the decivilising consequences of the state encouraging bad choices.

My constituent Mr David Laws—[Interruption.] I expected that response from the House; I believe that he is not related. Mr Laws is most concerned about the recent changes that will end home loan interest payments after two years. He wishes to protest most strongly about the “unfairness of this legislation”, as he puts it. He has been out of work for some time. He says he is not workshy. He has a law degree and has experience of both public and private sectors. At the age of 51, he finds that many employers do not think him suitable for the low-paid jobs that are available. He finds himself willing to do anything but unable to find work. He therefore faces the very real possibility of losing his home if he fails to secure a job before April 2012.

That puts me in mind of two points. First, I think Mr Laws has a legitimate concern, which must be addressed. Secondly, if we cannot create an economy in which Mr Laws can find a job within a year when he is highly qualified and at the peak of his productivity, we will have failed. I urge the Government to impress on the Chancellor the need to fulfil his pledge for an enterprise-driven Budget. We simply must deliver those private sector jobs.

Given the time and the fact that other Members wish to speak, I conclude by echoing the sentiments put succinctly in the Centre for Social Justice report, “Breakdown Britain”:

“The more we struggle to end poverty through the provision of benefits, the more we entrench it. By focusing on income transfers rather than employment, the system makes people dependent on benefits. Habituation to dependency destroys individuals and communities, as well as reducing the overall competitiveness of the UK.”

I listened to my hon. Friend the Member for Truro and Falmouth (Sarah Newton), who made the case brilliantly that the moral and intellectual high ground is on the coalition side of the House, and I agree with her.

We have heard a range of Opposition speeches. I welcomed the speech by the right hon. Member for Stirling (Mrs McGuire), who accepted that the Government’s intent is good. I share her concern that the Bill, in a sense, is enabling, but unlike her I suspect that in a complex welfare system it is necessary to give the Government some flexibility.

[Mrs McGuire]

On flexibility, does the hon. Gentleman recognise that the 300-odd regulations defining what is meant by the Bill should be before us today?

[Steve Baker]

I hear the right hon. Lady, as have Ministers, but as I have so little time, I hope she will forgive me for finishing my contribution.

I was glad to listen to the right hon. Member for Sheffield, Brightside and Hillsborough (Mr Blunkett). In an intervention, I agreed with another Member that the banking system is currently the source of great injustice, but some of the contributions from the Opposition seemed cynically opportunistic. There has previously been broad agreement across the House that there must be change. I urge Members in all parts of the House to get on board a welfare reform that is well intentioned and must be seen through.