Penrose Inquiry

John Bercow Excerpts

Thursday 26th March 2015 Commons Chamber

[Several hon. Members]

rose—

[Mr Speaker]

Order. I remind the House that there is a further urgent question that has to be taken and I am keen to proceed in an efficient way. So we will hear from colleagues, but as briefly as possible, and then we must move on.

Barts Health NHS Trust

John Bercow Excerpts

Thursday 19th March 2015 Commons Chamber

[Several hon. Members]

rose—

[Mr Speaker]

It is good to know that in his capacity as a distinguished ornament of the Health Committee, the hon. Member for Easington (Grahame M. Morris) takes a keen interest in matters appertaining to east London.

[Grahame M. Morris (Easington) (Lab)]

Absolutely, and not least because we warned of these dangers during the passage of the Health and Social Care Bill, which later became an Act. With all due respect, I should point out to the Minister, on her references to openness and transparency, that this failing has happened as a direct result of mergers introduced by this Government. May I respectfully point out that when this merger was approved by the Secretary of State three years ago, Labour MPs, including my hon. Friend the Member for Leyton and Wanstead (John Cryer), did point out that such a change would be a disaster, and that has come to pass? The Secretary of State pressed ahead. May I point out the bullying issues that the report throws up? The chairman of the Unison branch was sacked on trumped-up charges. Will the Minister issue instructions to have those individuals reinstated?

--- Later in debate ---

[Liz McInnes (Heywood and Middleton) (Lab)]

Like my hon. Friend the Member for Easington (Grahame M. Morris), I am not from London, but I do feel qualified to speak on this subject. The issues that have been raised about staff morale and the “down banding” of nurses are all too familiar to me. Until October last year I worked for the NHS—I worked for the NHS for more than 30 years—and what is going on at Barts is very similar to what was going on in the trust in the north-west where I worked. Again, it was a large trust, having been formed by the merger of four hospitals. It is an unworkable plan. As my hon. Friend said, we warned about what was going to happen with the Health and Social Care Bill, and it is depressing to see all this come to fruition. The cost of agency staff, which has been referred to—

[Mr Speaker]

Order. May I exhort the hon. Lady to come to a question? I know she has provided her diagnosis, and we are grateful to her for that, but what we need is a question.

[Liz McInnes]

My question is regarding the trade unions and the welfare of staff. Staff morale is at an all-time low in the NHS, and trade unions need to be involved in any special measures that are taken in this trust.

--- Later in debate ---

[Several hon. Members]

rose—

[Mr Speaker]

Order. I note the interest—

[Andy Burnham]

On a point of order, Mr Speaker—

[Mr Speaker]

Yes, in a moment. I notice that the interest in this debate grew as it was taking place. The First Deputy Chairman of Ways and Means, the hon. Member for Epping Forest (Mrs Laing), and the right hon. Member for Chingford and Woodford Green (Mr Duncan Smith) have toddled into the Chamber. [Interruption.] Yes, I understand that the right hon. Gentleman has a constituency interest, and that others have taken a keen interest.

I will now allow a point of order, because it relates directly to the exchanges that have just taken place. I know that the right hon. Member for Leigh (Andy Burnham) will not abuse his privilege.

[Andy Burnham]

I am grateful to you, Mr Speaker, for allowing this point of order.

In the Minister’s non-reply to my questions, she inadvertently misled the House. She said that, before the last election, I had blocked a report on Basildon hospital. I wish to place it on the record that I made an oral statement to this House about Basildon hospital and published reports on it on 30 November 2009. I followed that up with a written statement to the House on 5 March 2010. I would be grateful to the Minister if she withdrew her comments.

[Mr Speaker]

I note what the shadow Secretary of State has said. He has put it on the record. The Minister is welcome to respond if she wishes, but she is not obliged to.

[Jane Ellison]

I was not a Member of the House at that time. Of course I would not wish inadvertently to mislead the House. Nevertheless—[Interruption.] I read out evidence that was given to the Francis inquiry that made it clear that such a culture did exist. However, if, on the specific point, I was not quite right, I will withdraw what I said.

[Mr Speaker]

I am grateful to the hon. Lady for what she has said. We will leave it there.

Child and Adolescent Mental Health Services

John Bercow Excerpts

Tuesday 3rd March 2015 Commons Chamber

[Norman Lamb]

I am very happy to look at Coventry if the hon. Gentleman wants to send me a note about that.

I make the case that there needs to be more investment in mental health, and my party has argued for £500 million of additional investment a year in mental health in the next Parliament. Investing £54 million for the children and young people’s IAPT—improving access to psychological therapies—programme has started to transform existing services, and it now covers 68% of the nought to 19-year-old population, which exceeds the original target of 60% by 2015. NHS England continues to plan for nationwide roll-out, as set out in the mandate, which should be achieved by 2018.

As part of the autumn statement, the Deputy Prime Minister and I announced £150 million of investment over the next five years to deal with eating disorders. This will help to ensure that any young person can get the help they need, no matter where they live, and will allow the development of waiting time standards for eating disorders from 2016. This is a condition that can kill, so it is so important that we get early access. We have invested £3 million in MindEd, a digital resource to help people who work with young people and children. It is an online platform designed to give them the help that they need in the work that they do.

The prevalence survey is being undertaken—we have secured the money for it—and we plan for it to be ready by 2017. The aim is for it to cover children and young people from two years to 19 years, which is a wider range than in the original survey. That should be widely welcomed.

As for the taskforce, although there has been much progress, the Government have been open about the scale of the challenge and acknowledged that there is still much to do. As the Committee is aware, I set up the taskforce last summer. It is chaired jointly by the Department and NHS England and brings together a whole load of experts from outside Whitehall and listens to the voice of young people as well. This is a massive opportunity fundamentally to modernise the way children and young people’s health services operate, embracing the role of the voluntary sector and the potential for online support for youngsters, and sorting out this ridiculous, fragmented commissioning. The problem has been there for a long time, but things need to be made much simpler, so that we can have coherent services that are easily understandable for children and their families. If we can grasp this opportunity, we can make a massive difference for young people.

Let me say a word about crisis care. In a way, this is the area where the gap between physical and mental health is greatest. The Torbay case that my hon. Friend the Member for Totnes mentioned was a shock to the system, although we have already seen considerable reductions in the number of young people going into police stations. We are on course to see a reduction of about 30% this year, but it needs to be much greater than that. In my view, we need to legislate to end the practice completely. It is surely completely unacceptable that young people under the age of 18 end up in police cells rather than in a hospital. That practice simply has to come to an end.

I applaud everyone who has participated in this debate on a really important subject. I think we have an opportunity massively to improve things.

[Mr Speaker]

We thank the Minister, whose sense of timing is almost immaculate. I know that he intended that this debate should finish at seven o’clock, which it has done.

Question deferred (Standing Order No. 54).

Health Service Commissioner for England (Complaint Handling) Bill

John Bercow Excerpts

Friday 27th February 2015 Commons Chamber

[Mr James Arbuthnot (North East Hampshire) (Con)]

I beg to move, That the clause be read a Second time.

[Mr Speaker]

With this it will be convenient to discuss new clause 2—Information for the persons making the complaint—

‘The Health Service Commissioner shall make available to the complainant, at the outset of an investigation, an estimate of the period within which the investigation is likely to be completed.’

[Mr Arbuthnot]

May I begin by congratulating my right hon. Friend the Member for Haltemprice and Howden (Mr Davis) on getting the Bill through Second Reading without any discussion whatsoever, then through Committee without any amendment and now on Report? On Tuesday, in the Committee deliberating on the National Health Service (Amended Duties and Powers) Bill, during which hon. Members had the misfortune of having to listen to me speak for a little longer than normal, I said that in 28 years in this House I have never had a private Member’s Bill, so my right hon. Friend’s achievement is considerable.

Jimmy Savile (NHS Investigations)

John Bercow Excerpts

Thursday 26th February 2015 Commons Chamber

[Mr Hunt]

I thank the shadow Health Secretary for his constructive comments. I think the whole House will unite to ensure that all the necessary lessons are learned. I echo the right hon. Gentleman’s praise for the 44 very thorough reports that involved such painstaking and difficult work, and the superb job done by Kate Lampard and Ed Marsden in bringing together all those reports and thinking about the lessons that needed to be learned.

As the right hon. Gentleman observed, Kate Lampard has stated very clearly that while she does not think that there will be another instance of this kind in the future, elements of it could come about. It would be a mistake to say that this is all about stopping another Savile. We need to think more broadly about how abuse could take place in a modern context, and ensure that we learn broader lessons—which, indeed, we are learning in the context of what has happened in Rotherham, in Rochdale and elsewhere.

The right hon. Gentleman is right about the role of accountability, which clearly needs to be greatly improved. Let me answer, very directly, his question “Why was nothing done?” I think the report makes clear why nothing was done, and this is the tragedy. It was Savile’s importance, because of his fundraising, to institutions such as Stoke Mandeville in particular, as well as his celebrity, that made people afraid to speak out—and we should remember that, in all likelihood, many people have still not spoken out—but also made it less likely that something would be done when they did speak out, and that is what must never, ever be allowed to happen again.

The report does not directly criticise Ministers and civil servants for the abuse. It says there is no evidence that they had any knowledge of it. We must recognise, however, that the system itself was flawed, which is why the fact of the abuse never reached the ears of Ministers and others who were making decisions about Savile’s influence. What the report does say is that it was questionable whether processes should have been overridden, particularly in respect of financial propriety. The role that Savile was given in the construction of the new spinal injures centre at Stoke Mandeville was smoothed over as quickly as possible, because people thought that he would be able to bring a lot of money to the table, and that he would “walk”—that was the word used by the civil servants—if any bureaucratic obstacles were put in his way. That was wrong, and we can see that. It is vital for us to learn the lessons.

The right hon. Gentleman asked about the value of the Savile estate. A total of £40 million remains under management in his charities. That money will be made available to meet claims made by Savile’s victims, and if it is not enough, the Government will meet any further claims through the NHS Litigation Authority. I can also confirm that any counselling that the victims need will be made available to them by the NHS.

I do not think that there is any disagreement in principle on the issue of mandatory reporting, but it is important for a proper consultation to take place, which is why it would not have been right to pass a law as early as last week. We all want there to be a proper, strong incentive for those who are responsible for the care of vulnerable adults and children to report any concerns that are raised with them, and to ensure that something is done if any allegations are made. However, we also want to avoid the unintended consequences that might follow if legislation were badly drafted. It is particularly important for us to protect the ability of professionals to make judgments based on their assessment of what is actually happening.

We want to avoid the risk that the processes that are followed, and the ultimate decisions that are made, will not be in the best interests of the children or vulnerable adults concerned because people are following a legalistic process rather than doing what is right on the ground. No one would want that to happen, which is why it is so important for us to get the legislation exactly right. I can tell the right hon. Gentleman, however, that following the consultation—which we will carry out as soon as possible—we will legislate if necessary.

It is also important to say that there is a role for the professional codes in this area; this is about the correct professional ethics. We changed the professional codes for doctors and nurses following the Francis report, to encourage them to speak out, and there may well be lessons that need to be learned in that regard.

On the operation of the disclosure and barring system, we will of course look closely at what the shadow Home Secretary is suggesting, but a big improvement has been made to the new DBS arrangements, compared with the old Criminal Records Bureau system, in the form of the update service. Volunteers can subscribe to that service, and we are recommending today that all trusts ask volunteers to do so as a condition of their volunteering—

[Mr Speaker]

Order. These are extremely important matters of the highest sensitivity, and I appreciate the solicitousness with which the Secretary of State is treating them, but we have two heavily subscribed debates to which we have to progress and, before them, a statement from the hon. Member for Maldon (Mr Whittingdale), who chairs the Culture, Media and Sport Select Committee. The Front-Bench exchanges have so far taken up half an hour, and that is too long. I should therefore be most grateful for the co-operation of the Secretary of State. If he could pithily draw his remarks to a close so that we can get on to the questioning by hon. Members from the Back Benches, that would be a great advance for the House and possibly for civilisation.

[Mr Hunt]

Thank you, Mr Speaker. I did want to give a full response to the shadow Health Secretary, but I am happy to address any other concerns he has at a later stage.

Oral Answers to Questions

John Bercow Excerpts

Tuesday 24th February 2015 Commons Chamber

[Several hon. Members]

rose—

[Mr Speaker]

Order. May I gently remind the House that the question is not about staff per se in the NHS? The question is about people made redundant and subsequently re-employed. Attention to detail tends to profit a Member.

[Meg Hillier (Hackney South and Shoreditch) (Lab/Co-op)]

Those of us on the Public Accounts Committee have heard about the industrial scale of this revolving door of people going out of one job and into another with a fat redundancy payment. Does this not show that the Government have lost their grip on what is truly important in the NHS, which is paying front-line clinicians to serve patients?

[Dr Poulter]

That is extraordinary. The Public Accounts Committee will be aware that these redundancy terms were introduced by the previous Labour Government in 2006. We are committed to changing them and I hope that the hon. Lady’s party will support us in exerting pressure on the unions to support the pay deals on the table that will introduce an £80,000 redundancy cap.

[Mr Speaker]

Ms Johnson, do you have a similar question?

[Diana Johnson (Kingston upon Hull North) (Lab)]

21. Yes, Mr Speaker; I am grateful. I want to ask about the number of nurses who have been made redundant. Lots of hospitals in my area are now recruiting from Spain, and I wonder whether an assessment has been made of the cost to the NHS of using nurses from abroad after making other nurses redundant.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Jamie Reed (Copeland) (Lab)]

Cancer scanning services in Cheshire and Staffordshire have recently been subjected to a competitive tendering process, and the contract was awarded to Alliance Medical, despite its bid being £7 million more expensive than the NHS bid. Can the Secretary of State explain why the more expensive private sector bid was chosen over the better value NHS bid to provide these services? Will he commit to investigating the bidding process to ensure that the tender was conducted fairly? [Interruption.] He is chuntering from a sedentary position, but will he today confirm, because this is a matter of profound public interest, that no contact of any sort took place between his Department and the board of Alliance Medical with regard to this decision, including at any point with the current board member, the right hon. and learned Member for Kensington (Sir Malcolm Rifkind)?

[Mr Speaker]

Order. That was a considerable essay to which a pithy but comprehensive response is expected. The House seeks it.

[George Freeman]

I admire the hon. Gentleman’s chutzpah but it ill behoves him to talk to us about privatisation; it was his party that led to the increases and it is this Government who have stopped it, and he needs to acknowledge that. On the facts, in December the NHS in England performed more than 130,000 more diagnostic tests compared with December 2013. I note that he did not talk about Wales, where 24% of patients have waited more than eight weeks for their diagnostic test—the comparative figure is 2% of patients in England.

[Mr Speaker]

Order. The question was about Chester, so there was no particular reason to talk about Wales.

[Paul Uppal (Wolverhampton South West) (Con)]

5. What assessment he has made of the implications for his policies of the most recent rates of cancer survival.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Speaker]

The hon. Member for Barrow and Furness (John Woodcock) seems to be enjoying a very close relationship with his mobile phone. I hope that it profits both of them

[Derek Twigg (Halton) (Lab)]

On the early detection of cancer, will the Secretary of State consider putting more resources into socially deprived areas such as Halton where the incidence of cancer is higher?

--- Later in debate ---

[Mary Macleod (Brentford and Isleworth) (Con)]

16. What his priorities are for improving mental health care.

[Mr Speaker]

Minister Lamb.

[The Minister of State, Department of Health (Norman Lamb)]

Mr Speaker, you sounded a note of tedium in calling my name again.

[Mr Speaker]

I feel no sense of tedium but almost a state of ecstasy upon calling the right hon. Gentleman. If I gave any other impression, I most heartily apologise to him. I hope that he is now assured of his status in the affections of the Chair, if, possibly, also of the House? There might have to be a Division on that proposition. I do not know.

[Norman Lamb]

I am so grateful to be reassured, Mr Speaker.

Mental health is a priority for this Government. We have legislated for parity of esteem between mental and physical health, invested £400 million in talking therapies, significantly reduced the numbers of people who are placed in police cells during mental health crises and are introducing the first waiting times standards for mental health services from April this year.

--- Later in debate ---

[The Secretary of State for Health (Mr Jeremy Hunt)]

At the end of this Parliament, and before returning, I trust, to the same side of this Chamber in late May, I am pleased to update the House on NHS work force numbers. On the back of a strong economy, our NHS now has more doctors, nurses and midwives than ever before in its history, including 7,500 more nurses and 9,500 more doctors. The result is 9 million more operations during this Parliament than the previous Parliament, fewer people waiting a long time for their operations, and a start in putting right the scandal of short-staffed wards that we inherited and were highlighted by the Francis report. Indeed, last year the Commonwealth Fund said that under this Government the NHS has become the safest, most patient-centred and overall best health care system in any major country.

[Mr Speaker]

Let me point out that topical questions and answers should be brief. It is a rank discourtesy—[Interruption.] Order. It is a rank discourtesy to the House to expatiate at length and thereby to deny other Members the chance to put their questions. It will not happen. Simple, short, factual answers are what is required.

[Sir Nick Harvey]

In the past couple of days, a number of Devon and Cornwall hospitals have declared black alert status, meaning, essentially, that they are full and cannot cope with any more demand. Do Ministers therefore understand the public concern that the clinical commissioning group is considering closing beds in community hospitals, including Ilfracombe and South Molton in my constituency? Can anything more be done to help rural health economies that are trying to restructure but already struggling to cope with existing demand?

--- Later in debate ---

[Several hon. Members]

rose—

[Mr Speaker]

Order. I am sorry to disappoint remaining colleagues, but as usual demand has exceeded supply.

Francis Report: Update and Response

John Bercow Excerpts

Wednesday 11th February 2015 Commons Chamber

[Mrs Cheryl Gillan (Chesham and Amersham) (Con)]

May I endorse the Secretary of State’s remarks on Wales, having seen it at first hand? Having seen at first hand a constituent who was a whistleblower, and how her career and her family life have been so badly affected after she did the right thing, I know that what the Secretary of State has done today will be widely welcomed.

On the Public Administration Committee, we took evidence from the CQC and others, and it became very obvious that there is still a major problem with complaints procedures for patients and their relations. Patients often tell me that they are afraid to complain about the way that they are being treated in whatever NHS establishment they are in. Is there some way in which the Secretary of State can ensure that there are clear instructions in all NHS establishments on how patients and their relations can raise their valid concerns without their worst fears being realised?

[Mr Speaker]

Order. The right hon. Lady, whom I know extremely well as a Buckinghamshire colleague, rather like Treebeard does not believe in unnecessary or undue haste, but if I could suggest to colleagues that questions could be pithy rather than too leisurely I think we would all profit from that. The same goes, of course, for the Secretary of State, from whom we expect characteristically pithy, succinct responses.

[Mr Hunt]

As indeed we learn from you, Mr Speaker.

I welcome the question from my right hon. Friend, who is a former Secretary of State for Wales. People will want to know that these lessons will be learned in Wales. In the original Francis response, we set out clear plans for the way in which hospitals should make it clear, in every ward of every hospital, how one can complain not just directly to the trust, but to independent external organisations, such as the ombudsman, if necessary.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Laurence Robertson (Tewkesbury) (Con)]

rose—

[Mr Speaker]

In calling the hon. Gentleman, I congratulate him on his wedding. We wish him a long and happy marriage.

[Mr Robertson]

Thank you, Mr Speaker.

A good friend of mine, a consultant cardiologist, had his career ended and his life completely disrupted after he blew the whistle on the unnecessary deaths of patients at a hospital he worked at. It has taken him more than 12 years to win his case at a tribunal, and he still awaits compensation. These cases often manifest themselves in employment disputes, with trumped-up charges brought against the individual. What can the Secretary of State do to ensure that such things never happen again?

GP Services

John Bercow Excerpts

Thursday 5th February 2015 Commons Chamber

[Several hon. Members]

rose—

[Mr Speaker]

Order. I am extremely grateful to the hon. Member for Halton (Derek Twigg) for his courtesy and consideration of other Members. I was not intending to impose a formal limit on Back-Bench speeches, but it might be helpful to the House to know that 12 Back Benchers want to speak in the first debate and seven in the second. This debate might run until approximately 2.30 pm. If Members can confine themselves to 10 minutes, there should be no difficulty and it will be possible to accommodate everyone.

Human Fertilisation and Embryology

John Bercow Excerpts

Tuesday 3rd February 2015 Commons Chamber

[Several hon. Members]

rose—

[Mr Speaker]

Order. On account of the number of Members wishing to contribute to this debate, I must impose with immediate effect a six-minute limit on Back-Bench speeches. That limit will almost certainly have to be revised downwards, and I appeal to colleagues to help me to help them.

--- Later in debate ---

[Fiona Bruce]

The answer has to be that we—

[Mr Speaker]

Order. I think Members thought that the hon. Lady had concluded her speech, but she has not. Let us have a courteous hearing for everybody. I call Fiona Bruce.

[Fiona Bruce]

Thank you, Mr Speaker.

Once we approve this procedure, where will it lead? The answer has to be that we stop here and say, “This is a red line in our country, as in every other country in the world, that we will not cross.” This is the place for that to be said. As MPs, we are accountable to the people of this country.

The Government’s own consultation in July 2014 received 1,857 responses, of which 1,152 were opposed to the introduction of these techniques. That has been confirmed by ComRes polling last weekend, which showed that more than twice as many people are against these proposals as are in favour—41% of respondents, compared with 21%. A third public survey, being conducted today on The Daily Telegraph website, shows that as of this morning 68% of the public oppose these techniques in principle. Do their concerns not deserve respect from those of us present here?

The truth is that the Government have not waited for the conclusion of trials, as they should have done, so that this House could make a fully informed decision, and that is wrong. Whether one ultimately approves or disapproves of these proposals, the right procedure on such a profound issue is for the elected representatives of the people of this country to have full information before being rushed into a decision, as we would be today if we voted for these proposals.

--- Later in debate ---

[Several hon. Members]

rose—

[Mr Speaker]

Order. The time limit on Back-Bench speeches is now reduced with immediate effect to four minutes.

--- Later in debate ---

[John Hemming]

I will not take lots of interventions because it would damage the debate. They remain inherited, and, in essence, we face the same difficulty. My concern is a legalistic one, which is that we are moving away from a society in which we value people as people to one where we start looking at people in terms of what categories they fall into and things such as that. To that extent, I cannot back the motion today, particularly as it is being pushed through in such a rush.

[Mr Speaker]

If the hon. Gentleman is finished, I call Mr Robert Flello.

--- Later in debate ---

[Several hon. Members]

rose—

[Mr Speaker]

Order. I understand the widespread unhappiness about the time constraints, but we are where we are. I simply point out that Members are not obliged to take their full four minutes if they do not wish to do so.

--- Later in debate ---

[Several hon. Members]

rose—

[Mr Speaker]

With the leave of the House, it is proper that the Minister should have five minutes to respond. One last contribution, very pithily—Mr David Burrowes.

--- Later in debate ---

[Robert Flello]

On a point of order, Mr Speaker. We have just had a 90-minute debate during which a number of right hon. and hon. Members from across the Chamber and with different views had to rush through their speeches. We had people putting on the record views—sometimes genuinely held views although not necessarily correct—that nobody was able to challenge. Some hon. Members did not even have the chance to contribute to the debate.

Could you confirm, Mr Speaker, that there were indeed hon. Members who indicated that they would have liked to speak? Secondly, do you think it right that we have had a 90-minute rush and will now have three hours on a Backbench Business Committee motion?

[Mr Speaker]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for his point of order, and I confirm that two hon. Members who wished to speak were unable to do so. I expressed sympathy at the start of the debate for the hon. Member for Enfield, Southgate (Mr Burrowes) who would have preferred a longer allocation of time, but I must operate within the rules and procedures of the House. It is also fair to emphasise that 12 Back-Bench Members representing different viewpoints were called. That is the factual answer.

The hon. Member for Stoke-on-Trent South (Robert Flello) invites my view as to the propriety or otherwise of this matter, and I can say only that we have operated entirely in accordance with procedure. There has been no impropriety and nothing disorderly. I understand that some people are discontented, but I hope people will not take offence if I say that to a degree, I think there will always be people who are discontented. It is difficult to get unanimity on these matters, either on the merits of the issue or on the procedure. However, I think we have done our best, and people have done their best today to help each other, which is worthy of note.

[Jim Shannon]

Further to that point of order, Mr Speaker. It is obviously of great concern to many Members of the House that only 90 minutes was allocated for that debate, and you outlined at the beginning that the Minister could control that. What advice would you give to Back Benchers who want to ensure that in future, if there are debates about such enormous change for the whole United Kingdom, we can ensure a three-hour debate rather than a 90-minute debate?

[Mr Speaker]

I am always happy to offer my advice to the hon. Gentleman, but whether he takes it or not is entirely up to him. The short answer is twofold. The hon. Gentleman is an assiduous attender of debates—indeed, I have often wondered if he sleeps here overnight because he is invariably present in the Chamber at all times and for every Adjournment debate. First, he should always turn up at business questions when he can raise such matters with the Leader of the House. Secondly, if he feels that Back Benchers should have a greater say in the allocation of time on matters of this kind, he might want to join forces with other hon. Members who are championing the creation of a House business committee. That was to be introduced by the third year of this Parliament, but I think it momentarily slipped the Government’s memory and therefore has not happened. It might happen in the next Parliament, however, and I have a feeling that the hon. Gentleman might be a cheerleader for it. We will leave it there.

[Dr William McCrea]

rose—

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Speaker]

I will come to the hon. Gentleman—how could I not?—but first of all, I will take the point of order from Sir Paul Beresford.

[Sir Paul Beresford]

Further to that point of order, Mr Speaker. The hon. Gentleman that introduced the point of order has conveniently forgotten that he spoke in the Back-Bench debate on just this cause, as it is in his case. He was one of the leading Members at that debate.

[Mr Speaker]

Well, that was—dare I say it?—a meaty point of order, or even a toothy one, but it was certainly a useful point of order and I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman. We must not delay indefinitely, but we must take Dr McCrea.

[Dr McCrea]

Further to that point of order, Mr Speaker. There is general dismay among many Members, and I am sure among our constituents, that we could get only 90 minutes in this House to debate a decision of such magnitude, and hand it over to others to take the decision forward, without parliamentarians having the final say, and yet we have three hours on the next motion, a general debate on rural phone and broadband connectivity. Only one Northern Ireland Member was able to speak, and he had to rush through his speech, and yet we find out that the legislation applies equally to Northern Ireland, where a devolved Government cannot stop it, as in other regions of the United Kingdom.

[Mr Speaker]

I always listen to the hon. Gentleman, and I hope to every Member, with courtesy. I hope he will not take offence when I say that that point was made in the course of the debate. If the Leader of the House wants to respond, he can, but we must operate in accordance with our rules. Members would rightly complain if we did not or if I did not.

We will have to leave it there for today. I thank all hon. Members both for their contributions to the debate, and of course for their points of order. I thank the Minister for her courtesy and consideration of other Members in terms of her own taking up of time.

Child and Adolescent Mental Health Services

John Bercow Excerpts

Monday 2nd February 2015 Commons Chamber

[Glenda Jackson (Hampstead and Kilburn) (Lab)]

The Minister seems to be arguing that the solution to the problem is further evidence. For all the years that I have been in this House—almost 23 now—the issue of underfunding for mental health has been constant. The underfunding of services for children and adults who are suffering from mental health problems is an issue I raised in this House less than six weeks ago. It is unacceptable to claim that if there had been more information, measures would have been put in place to prevent children being sent hundreds of miles from their homes or being placed in adult wards. The Minister’s contribution has clarified the total lack of co-ordinated services for these young people. What kind of care would be afforded to someone in their home when, as in my constituency, their home may well be bed and breakfast, a hostel or some form of temporary accommodation? This is an urgent question; it requires urgent action. [Interruption.]

[Mr Speaker]

Somebody said that was very wrong. It was a Shakespearian performance. In fact, somebody once said to me, “That person could have been on the stage”!

[Norman Lamb]

I am delighted that the hon. Lady made the point not made by her Front-Bench spokesperson, which is that this is a long-standing problem. The disadvantage suffered by mental health has been there for a long time. Indeed, it was exacerbated, if I may say so, by the fact that access and waiting time standards were introduced for physical health, but the previous Government left out mental health. If that happens, it dictates where the money goes. That, combined with a funding system that sucks money into acute hospitals but which in mental health relies on a block contract, means that mental health always loses out. It is this Government who are determined to change that to ensure that mental health is finally treated equally.