Human Fertilisation and Embryology

Jim Shannon Excerpts

Tuesday 3rd February 2015 Commons Chamber

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

I hold the Minister in the utmost respect, but I feel greatly aggrieved that we are discussing this matter today in the House and that the Government are pushing forward with legislation on a process that I believe is unethical and unproven.

When assessing the reports published by the Human Fertilisation and Embryology Authority, we must take into account the point that the expert panel comprises a small group of scientists convened by the HFEA. Hearing the tone of today’s debate, one could be forgiven for thinking that they represent world scientific opinion. I do not want the House to be hoodwinked into thinking that there is a consensus on this issue, because there certainly is not. In fact, numerous world-leading scientists have been at pains to express their concerns about the proposals.

They include Professor David Keefe of New York university medical centre, himself a pioneer of spindle transfer techniques, who said:

“the application of the…techniques…represent intriguing advances of earlier work, but displays of technical virtuosity should not blind us to potential hazards.”

He explains that his research group moved away from these procedures because

“vexing concerns linger about the safety of mitochondrial replacement”.

He is far from alone. Stem-cell scientist Professor Paul Knoepfler is so concerned that he wrote an open letter to Parliament urging caution on the ground that rushing ahead would damage the reputation of science as a whole. He concluded:

“Overall, the UK would most likely be making an historic mistake by allowing 3-parent technology to proceed in the near future. Please wait on this critical decision for the additional information needed to make a wise choice in the long run.”

Clearly, we need time. Australian expert Professor Justin St John calls for more tests in non-human primates, so that we better understand the possible effects of the techniques. He says:

“As well as analysing foetal development in a non-human primate model, it is essential to analyse offspring to determine that no abnormalities appear at least during early life”.

None of those figures objects to the ethics of the techniques. Their objections are based purely on the science. Lest we think that they are lone voices, it must be remembered that the United States Food and Drug Administration considered the techniques last year and decided that there was not enough preclinical evidence to justify proceeding. I understand that the same body has reopened the debate and has insisted that it will be at least two yeas before it is ready to make a judgment.

In that context, I find it extraordinary that the Government have not waited for the conclusion of the preclinical safety experiments that the HFEA said should be conducted before proceeding.

[Dr McCrea]

In her opening speech the Minister mentioned that the devolved Administrations had been kept abreast of these proposals. I wanted to intervene to ask her whether the regulations will apply in Northern Ireland if they are passed in this House. That is an important question to which an answer is needed.

[Jim Shannon]

I am glad my hon. Friend raised that point.

We cannot have a real debate today without the evidence. New Scientist, typically a champion of progress in all areas of research, warned of a lack of understanding of the links between mitochondria and nuclear DNA. The fact is that the procedures for creating children are so controversial that no other country makes legal provision for them. The Council of Europe convention on biomedicine expressly prohibited them. The fact that experiments recommended by the Human Fertilisation and Embryology Authority itself have not been concluded, written up and peer-reviewed raises extensive safety concerns. Yet we as parliamentarians are asked to make a decision today without having all the clinical evidence before us.

In the preclinical tests that have been carried out, one of the techniques was tried in humans and resulted in three foetal deaths. The obligations in international law, specifically the European directive on clinical trials—

[Robert Flello]

On that point, will the hon. Gentleman give way?

[Jim Shannon]

I am sorry, I cannot give way. I do not have enough time.

The legal opinion of the Labour QC Lord Brennan seemed to suggest that the Government will not bother with clinical trials. That seems extraordinary and will come as a shock to many who spoke in favour in the debate on 1 September. My colleague Lord Morrow spoke to the Northern Ireland Attorney-General about the attempt of the Department of Health to argue in the response to Brennan that these regulations are not caught by the clinical trials directive, on the basis that the intention is to skip clinical trials. The Attorney-General told Lord Morrow that in his opinion the Department of Health is wrong and the regulations do indeed contradict the clinical trials directive. If the regulations go through today, they will contradict international law as well. The same point was made by 44 Members of the European Parliament. I urge the House to vote against the regulations.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Speaker]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for his point of order, and I confirm that two hon. Members who wished to speak were unable to do so. I expressed sympathy at the start of the debate for the hon. Member for Enfield, Southgate (Mr Burrowes) who would have preferred a longer allocation of time, but I must operate within the rules and procedures of the House. It is also fair to emphasise that 12 Back-Bench Members representing different viewpoints were called. That is the factual answer.

The hon. Member for Stoke-on-Trent South (Robert Flello) invites my view as to the propriety or otherwise of this matter, and I can say only that we have operated entirely in accordance with procedure. There has been no impropriety and nothing disorderly. I understand that some people are discontented, but I hope people will not take offence if I say that to a degree, I think there will always be people who are discontented. It is difficult to get unanimity on these matters, either on the merits of the issue or on the procedure. However, I think we have done our best, and people have done their best today to help each other, which is worthy of note.

[Jim Shannon]

Further to that point of order, Mr Speaker. It is obviously of great concern to many Members of the House that only 90 minutes was allocated for that debate, and you outlined at the beginning that the Minister could control that. What advice would you give to Back Benchers who want to ensure that in future, if there are debates about such enormous change for the whole United Kingdom, we can ensure a three-hour debate rather than a 90-minute debate?

[Mr Speaker]

I am always happy to offer my advice to the hon. Gentleman, but whether he takes it or not is entirely up to him. The short answer is twofold. The hon. Gentleman is an assiduous attender of debates—indeed, I have often wondered if he sleeps here overnight because he is invariably present in the Chamber at all times and for every Adjournment debate. First, he should always turn up at business questions when he can raise such matters with the Leader of the House. Secondly, if he feels that Back Benchers should have a greater say in the allocation of time on matters of this kind, he might want to join forces with other hon. Members who are championing the creation of a House business committee. That was to be introduced by the third year of this Parliament, but I think it momentarily slipped the Government’s memory and therefore has not happened. It might happen in the next Parliament, however, and I have a feeling that the hon. Gentleman might be a cheerleader for it. We will leave it there.