European Union (Notification of Withdrawal) Bill

Seema Malhotra Excerpts

3rd reading: House of Commons & Committee: 3rd sitting: House of Commons & Report stage: House of Commons
Wednesday 8th February 2017 Commons Chamber

[Joanna Cherry]

I will not at the moment, thank you.

I will come back to Gibraltar in a moment, but I want to continue on the subject of Scotland’s priority in these negotiations. The document I am holding—“Scotland’s Place in Europe”—puts forward a highly considered and detailed case to the British Government. As I said, we are still waiting for any kind of considered or detailed response. This morning, the Exiting the European Union Committee heard evidence from a number of Scottish legal experts, in addition to the Minister, Mike Russell. We were told by Professor Nicola McEwen that the proposals in this document are credible and merit examination.

What the Scottish Government are asking for from the British Government is no more than the British Government are asking for from the other 27 member states of the European Union, and that is for there to be consideration in negotiations of our position, and our position is somewhat less substantial than the position the British Government want to put forward in Europe.

[Seema Malhotra (Feltham and Heston) (Lab/Co-op)]

Will the hon. and learned Lady give way?

[Joanna Cherry]

I am going to make a little progress, and then I will give way.

The Scottish Government are looking for a response to this document, and that is why we are not going to push new clause 145, which has been held over to today for a vote. A meeting is taking place this afternoon of the Joint Ministerial Committee, and we are still prepared for the time being to put faith in the promise the Prime Minister made, which my right hon. Friend the Member for Gordon (Alex Salmond) has just reminded us of, about Scotland’s wishes being taken into account. However, Members of this House should make no mistake: we will expect the Prime Minister to deliver on that promise. We will expect—just as Gibraltar does—to have our position put forward in the article 50 letter. If that does not happen, and the Prime Minister breaks her promise, we will hold another independence referendum, and on the back of the Herald headline, things are looking pretty good for that at the moment—we are at nearly 50%, and not a single word has been uttered yet in the campaign for a second independence referendum.

[John Redwood]

rose—

[Seema Malhotra]

rose—

[Joanna Cherry]

I will not give way to the right hon. Gentleman for the time being, but the hon. Lady was going to raise a point.

[Seema Malhotra]

The hon. and learned Lady referenced the evidence session we had this morning with her colleague from the Scottish Parliament. Does she agree, however, that there were a number of unanswered questions in the Committee, including on what regulations Scotland may be subject to if it were in the European economic area; what the impact might be on the trade relationship with the rest of the UK; what the controls at the border might be, and what they might need to look like if Scotland had free movement but the rest of the UK did not; and what payment might need to be made by Scotland, including how much that would be and where it would come from? There was some confusion over those points.

[Joanna Cherry]

I do not agree with the hon. Lady. The transcript will be available shortly, and when hon. Members read it they will see that my colleague who is a Minister in the Scottish Government repeatedly told Members that the answers to the questions they were asking were in this document. It was rather surprising that one member of the Committee admitted that he had not read the document but berated the Scottish Minister for not having answered questions that are answered in the document he has not read. I hope that the British Government are studying this document, as there is perhaps quite a lot to learn from it.

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[Jess Phillips]

I think it is time for a woman’s voice to fill this Chamber for now. I believe that the right hon. Gentleman has had his say.

[Seema Malhotra]

Will my hon. Friend give way?

[Jess Phillips]

I absolutely will give way. [Laughter.]

[Seema Malhotra]

My hon. Friend is making a characteristically powerful and passionate, and humorous, speech. Would it not be fair to approach the wording in the White Paper with some caution, bearing in mind that prominent leave campaigners argued that leaving the EU would be an opportunity to cut EU social and employment protections?

[Jess Phillips]

Absolutely. My hon. Friend makes a very good point, unfortunately. The thing that we might get, as the leave campaign said, is a squashing of workers’ rights; the thing that we will not get is £350 million going into the NHS. If only there was a level of consistency in what we have been promised.

European Union (Notification of Withdrawal) Bill

Seema Malhotra Excerpts

Committee: 2nd sitting: House of Commons
Tuesday 7th February 2017 Commons Chamber

[Geraint Davies (Swansea West) (Lab/Co-op)]

rose—

[Seema Malhotra (Feltham and Heston) (Lab/Co-op)]

rose—

[Keir Starmer]

I am going to make some progress, because I barely got through two or three sentences before taking interventions. I do not think anybody could accuse me of not giving way.

In the end, there is stark choice for the House. If we are to have a vote, it will be either before the deal is concluded, or afterwards, in which case it will be a fait accompli. This concession appears to suggest that it will be before it is concluded. I recognise that there are other issues that flow off the back of that timing, but that is critical, because the sequence of events at the end of the exercise is extremely important to what the House can meaningfully say or do about the agreement that is put to us for a vote.

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[Mr Jones]

That is absolutely right. The suggestion that the Government would not keep the House informed is really unworthy, given that we have been scrupulous in doing so thus far.

New clause 110 is similar to new clause 18, but it also specifies that any new relationship would be subject to approval by a resolution of Parliament. I believe that the measure is unnecessary. It asks for a vote of each House on a new treaty or any new agreement reached with the EU, but I repeat again that there will be a vote on the final draft treaty and any other agreement. In any event, as my hon. Friend the Member for Esher and Walton (Mr Raab) pointed out, it calls for a vote before terms are agreed, leaving it open to the Commission to change its mind or position without any apparent recourse for this place.

[Seema Malhotra]

rose—

[Mr Jones]

I will not give way as I have very little time.

New clause 137 would require the Government to seek to negotiate a new agreement with the EU if Parliament rejects a deal. Again, I reject the measure. Although we are confident that we will achieve a deal acceptable to Parliament, if Parliament were to reject that deal, it would be a sure sign of weakness, as I have said, to return to the EU and ask for other terms. We would be likely to achieve only a worse deal. Furthermore, there is no obligation on the EU to continue negotiating with us beyond the two-year period specified in article 50.

New clause 175 would effectively require the Government to request that we remain a member of the EU if the terms were not approved by Parliament. Frankly, to do so would be to betray the outcome of the referendum, and the Government are not prepared to accept that. I must make it absolutely clear that the Government want Parliament to be engaged throughout this process.

[Mr Jones]

That is absolutely ludicrous. The European Parliament’s role comes at the end of the process; it has oversight to the extent that it rubber-stamps the agreement or not.

New clauses 18 and 19 would require any new treaties agreed with the EU to be subject to the ratification of Parliament. We have always said that we will observe the constitutional and legal obligations that apply to the final deal, and that remains the case. As we have confirmed, the final agreement will be subject to a vote of this House before it is concluded.

[Seema Malhotra]

Will the Minister give way?

[Mr Jones]

For the very last time.

[Seema Malhotra]

Will the Minister abide by the recommendation in the report of the Exiting the European Union Committee that when the Government bring the deal to Parliament, they should have regard to the requirement that Parliament has adequate time to consider any statement before the proposed terms are put to each House for approval?

[Mr Jones]

We will, of course, consider all the recommendations of the Select Committee and respond formally to its report in due course.

We approach the negotiations not expecting failure, but anticipating success. Let me remind Members that we are seeking in the Bill to do one simple, straightforward thing: to follow the instructions we received from the British people in the referendum. Remaining a member of the European Union is not an option. The process for leaving the EU is set out in article 50, and it is not within our power unilaterally to extend the negotiations.

New clause 99 envisages yet another Act of Parliament to approve the arrangements for our withdrawal and our future relationship with the EU. It would require yet another Act of Parliament for us to withdraw from the EU in the absence of a negotiated deal. The new clause is wholly otiose. While we are ready for any outcome, an exit without a trade agreement is emphatically not what we seek. However, let me be clear that keeping open the prospect of staying in the EU, as is envisaged by new clause 99, would only encourage the EU to give us the worst possible deal in the hope that we would change our mind.

Amendment 43 calls for a referendum on our membership of the European Union after we have negotiated a final deal. That was tabled by the Liberal Democrats.

This has been an important debate. We have considered the new clauses and amendments very carefully but, for all the reasons I have given, we reject them and invite Members not to press them to a Division.

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[Mr Umunna]

I completely agree with my hon. Friend.

For all these reasons I have tabled amendment 11, which, as the hon. Member for North East Somerset (Mr Rees-Mogg) stated, is very reasonable. It requires the Prime Minister to set out how the UK’s withdrawal from the EU will impact on the national finances, particularly on health spending. In short, she needs to set out how she is going to make good on that Vote Leave pledge to spend £350 million extra per week on the NHS.

[Seema Malhotra]

I am very pleased to support my hon. Friend’s amendment. Does he agree that this will also be a vital part of the keeping the public’s confidence in the process as we go forward over the next two years, not least given the conversations in a focus group I held in my constituency on Sunday where people said that this issue remains topmost in their minds as the reason they voted to leave?

[Mr Umunna]

Absolutely. This issue is not going to go away. It will be a major part of the general election campaign, whenever the next one comes.

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[Michael Gove]

It is striking that the hon. Gentleman talks about the mess that we are in. Of course, the “we” refers to the Scottish National party, because it is in a significant mess at the moment. It has found that support for independence has fallen as a result of leaving the European Union and that support for a second referendum is falling. Psychological displacement theory explains why it wants to talk about anything other than its own political failure.

[Seema Malhotra]

Will the right hon. Gentleman give way?

[Michael Gove]

I will make a little progress, then I will give way to the hon. Lady.

The reason I oppose all the new clauses and amendments is that, as was pointed out by my right hon. Friend the Member for Chingford and Woodford Green, every single one of them, if implemented, would delay and potentially frustrate the legislation. They would require a huge list of impact assessments to be published and other work to be undertaken before we could trigger article 50.

I know that the hon. Member for Greenwich and Woolwich (Matthew Pennycook) said that it was not the mission of the Labour party to delay, but he is rather in the position of what guerrilla organisations call a cleanskin—an innocent who has been put in the way of gunfire by other wilier figures, such as the shadow Chief Whip who is in his place. I am sure that the hon. Gentleman is entirely sincere in his belief that the new clauses and amendments would not delay or complicate the legislation, nor frustrate the will of the British people, but I have to say that he is wrong. He is in the position of the Roman general, Quintus Fabius Maximus Verrucosus Cunctator, “the delayer”: everything that he is doing—every single one of these new clauses and amendments—seeks to delay.

Let me draw attention briefly, for example, to new clause 48, which stands in the name of the hon. Member for Bishop Auckland (Helen Goodman). Subsection (1), as clarified by subsection (2)(s), would require us to have an impact assessment on leaving the European Union Agency for Railways. It may have escaped her notice, but Britain is an island.

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[Caroline Lucas]

rose—

[Seema Malhotra]

rose—

[Helen Goodman]

rose—

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[The Temporary Chair (Sir Roger Gale)]

Order. Just before we proceed, it is customary and courteous to allow the right hon. Gentleman to respond to one intervention before trying to make another one. I find the debate progresses better that way.

[Seema Malhotra]

The right hon. Gentleman describes himself as a humble seeker of truth. That strikes me as interesting, given that he campaigned so hard to leave on the basis of an extra £350 million a week to be spent on the health service. Why will he not support amendment 11, tabled by my hon. Friend the Member for Streatham (Mr Umunna), which states:

“the Prime Minister must prepare and publish a report on the effect of the United Kingdom’s withdrawal from the EU on national finances, including the impact on health spending.”?

Surely, as a humble seeker of truth, he might want to know the answer to that?

[Michael Gove]

That is a very important point very well made, but the point I sought to make earlier—the hon. Lady’s intervention gives me a chance to underline and further clarify it—is that if we want more money to be spent on the NHS, or, for that matter, anything else, and we want to take back control of the money the EU currently controls or spends on our behalf, then we should seek to expedite the will of the British people and leave the EU as quickly as possible. We will then have that money back and we can invest it in the NHS more quickly.

European Union (Notification of Withdrawal) Bill

Seema Malhotra Excerpts

Committee: 1st sitting: House of Commons
Monday 6th February 2017 Commons Chamber

[Sir Hugo Swire]

I agree with the hon. Lady that language and sensitivity are incredibly important. We are dealing with families, and with people who are married to EU citizens. We are dealing with people who live here and who do not know whether they have a future here. That is why we have to resolve the matter very early on. I have considerable sympathy, as I have said, with many people who have spoken about the contribution that EU nationals make. I very much hope that we can reach an agreement that will satisfy all who are here but, equally, I think that our first duty is to look after our citizens abroad.

[Seema Malhotra (Feltham and Heston) (Lab/Co-op)]

The right hon. Gentleman has talked about the issues faced by British citizens whose partners are EU nationals, but does he agree that we are also talking about children? I have seen children in my constituency raise real concerns about whether they will be able to study in the same school, and about where their future will be. They do not know the country that their parents came from, and they are British in every sense of the word. This is causing huge uncertainty. We can tackle this, and we can do it this week.

[Sir Hugo Swire]

We can all cite examples from our surgeries of individual cases, but I am not sure that to do so contributes to the greater argument. We need to get a policy in place that covers the whole thing. That can only be achieved by the Prime Minister making it a priority, as she has suggested she will, and getting an agreement from the other member states that involves the reciprocity we need for our British people living abroad.

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[Chris Leslie]

I want to move on, if I may.

When it comes to education, science and research issues, we will leave the European Research Council, which is very important. Hon. Members may know about the Erasmus scheme, which means that all our constituents who currently want to study abroad for a few months can have that time recognised as part of their degree, but what will happen to that scheme? There is nothing in the White Paper. It does not say anything about students in our constituencies potentially losing out very significantly. What about satellite issues, plant variety issues, locational training and all sorts of issues?

[Seema Malhotra]

My hon. Friend is indeed making an excellent speech and highlighting the complexity of the challenges we face. He referred to science, and I had a conversation yesterday with my constituent Clare, who is a scientist and was extremely concerned about how our collaboration will work and what projects we will be included in in the future. She was also concerned about the impact on our young people. Their future is ahead of them, and in a sense we are pulling the rug out from under their feet.

[Chris Leslie]

We should have the time, the space and the opportunity to discuss the consequences for my hon. Friend’s constituent, but we will not. My hon. Friend will have to tell her constituent that we did not have enough time in the House of Commons. Fingers crossed, there might be time for the House of Lords to do some of this work and put their concerns to Ministers in the other place.

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[Mr Harper]

I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for elucidating that for the House. Indeed, I detected from the expression on the face of the shadow Minister, the hon. Member for Darlington, that she had not found that intervention from the hon. Member for Ealing North (Stephen Pound) entirely helpful. Perhaps she shares the view of the hon. Member for North Antrim (Ian Paisley).

Finally, new clauses 160 and 161, tabled by the Welsh nationalists, talk about “future trade deals” and would also give a veto to the devolved Assemblies in the UK. On that basis, the Committee should not support them.

New clause 168 proposes a “National Convention”. As someone who has been involved in constitutional matters for some time, I could not help but smile at that, because when I was taking a number of constitutional items through the House, national conventions, conventional committees or some other variant were usually a way of delaying matters by involving a whole load of people in things. These were usually people who are already well involved in all those things, as most members of such conventions appear to be elected Members of some body or other. Those conventions seem an extraordinary excuse to make no progress whatever.

[Seema Malhotra]

rose—

[Mr Harper]

As the hon. Lady tabled the new clause, I will of course give way to her.

[Seema Malhotra]

I thank the right hon. Gentleman for giving way. I look forward to discussing this matter further in my remarks later, but perhaps I could raise a point with him. I am sure he will appreciate, as I do, the paucity of quality debate about the referendum, which remains an issue. We need to engage people in the discussion over the next two years. We should not reach the end of the negotiation period with people saying they are as ill-informed at the end as they were at the start.

[Mr Harper]

That is a helpful intervention, because the hon. Lady has tempted me to say a little more about her new clause, which I had not planned to do. I have looked at the membership of the national convention specified in the new clause, and it does not seem to involve any members of the public at all. It is all people who were very well represented in the referendum campaign: elected mayors; elected representatives of local government; people from universities and higher education; representatives of trade unions and trade bodies; representatives of business organisations; and Members of the Scottish Parliament—

[Mr Harper]

Yes, them, along with Members of the National Assembly of Wales and of the Northern Ireland Assembly; plus Members of the European Parliament. Finally, it gets to “other representatives”, but not just any representatives of civil society—only those determined by the Secretary of State. Interestingly, the hon. Lady wants to give Ministers the job of deciding who should represent civil society, which seems remarkably generous of her, although rather self-defeating.

[Seema Malhotra]

Perhaps the right hon. Gentleman will agree that it is vital to have the regions of England involved as much as the nations of Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland, in the national debate. I am sure that, on reflection, he will realise that there is great value in the idea of a greater national conversation in which elected representatives would be able to engage with their communities and represent their views.

[Mr Harper]

To be honest, I thought there was quite a lot of national conversation last year. When I talked to my constituents, it seemed to me that by the end of that national conversation, they really did want to make a decision and move on. The most important thing that they want us to do is give notice under article 50 and start the negotiating process. The most common refrain I hear is from people who, because we had a referendum last year, wonder why we have not already left.

[Mr Harper]

My hon. Friend put that well. The new clause would not involve members of the public at all; it would involve people who are well involved in the debate already.

[Seema Malhotra]

Will the right hon. Gentleman give way?

[Mr Harper]

No, I shall not give way to the hon. Lady again. I gave way to her twice, and we can look forward to her remarks—

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[Charlie Elphicke]

I want to conclude my remarks by saying that it is high time the Labour party respected the fact that the people of Wales and the people of England voted to leave the European Union, it is high time that the Scottish National party respected a referendum—it has, despite the interesting explanation given by its former leader, disrespected three referendums—and it is high time that we have a clean Brexit with a clean Bill and that we send the Bill to the House of Lords unamended.

[Seema Malhotra]

I am grateful for the chance to speak in this important debate about how we can engage more with the devolved Administrations and legislatures in relation to our future discussions and negotiations.

I want to speak to my new clause 168, which calls on the Government to establish a new national convention to advise Her Majesty’s Government on their priorities during negotiations with the EU on the terms of the UK’s withdrawal from the EU. It calls on Ministers of the Crown to take into account the views of the national convention before signing any agreements with the European Commission on the terms of the UK’s withdrawal from the EU. I propose that the national convention should convene representatives from across different levels of government, the regions—including, in case anybody has missed this, all the English regions—and various sectors to meet and produce a report recommending negotiating priorities that would better reflect the needs of the regions of the UK.

[Dame Rosie Winterton]

Does my hon. Friend agree that the Secretary of State for Brexit said there would be some kind of meeting in York, where the Government would bring together representatives of the regions. That was some time ago, and since then we have heard nothing about it. That would fit in completely with her idea of a national convention, so it would be helpful if the Minister put some flesh on the bones of what the Secretary of State was talking about.

[Seema Malhotra]

My right hon. Friend makes a very important point. Indeed, the lack of engagement with the regions has been highlighted in the work of the Exiting the European Union Committee.

[Catherine McKinnell (Newcastle upon Tyne North) (Lab)]

The Secretary of State actually said that he would get

“the mayors of the north to come and have a meeting in York”.—[Official Report, 17 January 2017; Vol. 619, c. 802.]

That was a very vague statement. My concern is that it does not seem to provide any clarity about how the Government are going to engage with regions that will not have elected Mayors by May, such as the north-east. Indeed, such Mayors will be elected only in May, which will be far too late for these negotiations.

[Seema Malhotra]

My hon. Friend makes a very important point. It comes down to how much the Government are really committed to and interested in hearing from differing voices across the country as we move forward. That is why I want the convention to include elected Mayors, representatives of civil society and local government, and MEPs—they have great expertise and experience—as well as representatives of the Scottish Parliament, the National Assembly for Wales and the Northern Ireland Assembly.

[Anna Soubry]

Will the hon. Lady give way?

[Seema Malhotra]

I will make some progress first.

The national convention would include a wider set of voices, each with an important contribution to make to the debate, including universities and higher education representatives, business organisations, trade unions, trade bodies and other representatives of different sectors.

The referendum demonstrated the alienation that many people feel from politics as a whole. The result showed a nation split down the middle. Seven out of 10 18 to 24-year-olds voted remain, while two thirds of over-65s voted leave. Cities tended to vote remain, while small towns and rural areas tended to vote leave. England and Wales voted leave, while Scotland and Northern Ireland voted remain.

[Anna Soubry]

The hon. Lady says that Members of the European Parliament would sit in the national convention. Does that include Mr Nigel Farage?

[Seema Malhotra]

We need to have a way in which the expertise of our many long-standing Members of the European Parliament can be shared with the nation. I am not saying that I would have one or the other. What is important is that there is a continuing dialogue and that we engage the nations and the regions across the country in a far more diverse debate than we are currently having.

[Sammy Wilson]

Will the hon. Lady give way?

[Seema Malhotra]

I will make some progress, because we have only a few moments left and other Members wish to speak.

Yesterday in my constituency, I held a roundtable with people who voted leave and those who voted remain, from people in their 20s to those in their 80s. It was a useful discussion that engaged people in the choices and dilemmas ahead. They said why they voted leave or remain. Their reasons included the commitment of £350 million for the NHS, housing and immigration, particularly opening up immigration from non-EU countries, including Commonwealth countries. Many felt that they did not understand the implications of Brexit, nor what the risks might be.

[Sir William Cash]

Will the hon. Lady give way?

[Seema Malhotra]

I am afraid that we are running short of time.

People wanted more information and more debate. One person even asked me what article 50 was. The level of understanding is very low and it is vital that we continue to engage people. People had a vote in a referendum, but going forward there is no forum for people to understand and engage in the journey we are on.

The national convention that I propose would fill an important gap. It would give English cities and regions a voice alongside Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland in a strong national conversation about where we go next. It would recognise and harness the expertise of our councillors and the vast experience and expertise of many other sectors and, yes, our MEPs.

Brexit will have different effects on different communities, sectors, regions and nations. The needs of farmers in Cornwall will be different from those of the nuclear industry in Cumbria, the media and tech sectors in Manchester, the financial services in Scotland and London, and car manufacturing in the north-east. Those differences should be shared and those needs should be understood in a public forum. In evidence to the Exiting the European Union Committee, on which I sit, the Secretary of State for Exiting the European Union admitted that not enough had yet been done on regional engagement.

Many of us were deeply disappointed with the quality of the referendum debate. The setting up of the national convention would inform and shape a mature national debate during the negotiation period and help to unite the country. New clause 168 is an opportunity and a test for the Government. If they are serious about a Brexit that works for everyone, they should welcome this opportunity to take the discussion out of Whitehall and engage the country.

[Sammy Wilson]

Can the hon. Lady clear something up for me? She is proposing a national assembly, the purpose of which is to advise Her Majesty’s Government on their priorities, and its report would not be received, according to proposed subsection (7), for 15 months. Is she saying that we wait 15 months—in which case she wants simply to delay—or is she saying that the report would come after the negotiations are over?

[Seema Malhotra]

Perhaps I can clear this up. The maximum time is to encourage engagement over the period of the negotiations, assuming that they last for two years. This is a process to engage the regions and nations far more effectively in a national conversation. If there is one thing that this debate and the referendum outcome have taught us, it is that people want to be listened to.

[Joanna Cherry]

I rise to speak in support of amendment 46, which stands in my name and that of my hon. Friends, but before that I would like to take the opportunity to thank Conservative Members who have spoken this evening for their quite extraordinary display of hubris and contempt towards amendments, laid by several different parties, that simply seek to make sure that the reality of the modern British constitution and devolved settlement is respected. Those of us who believe that Scotland would be better off managing its own affairs as an independent member of the EU will have received a huge boost this evening from their behaviour. It was a pleasure to listen to the speech of the hon. Member for Foyle (Mark Durkan). I am sure he will forgive me if I say that I suspect that the cause of a united Ireland has also received a boost this evening. I very much hope so.

I will be brief so that others from my party might have a chance to speak. The purpose of amendment 46 is to require the Prime Minister to obtain the legislative consent of the Scottish Parliament, the Welsh Assembly and the Northern Irish Assembly before she triggers article 50. It is a pleasure to have the opportunity to correct the hon. Member for North West Cambridgeshire (Mr Vara) and his woeful misunderstanding of what the Supreme Court did and did not say in relation to legislative consent motions. It said that, as currently framed in the Scotland Act, they are not legally enforceable. It did not say that they had no meaning whatsoever. The hon. Member for Foyle quoted paragraph 151 of the judgment, and I very much suggest that Conservative Members read the judgment, rather than simply taking from it what they want. It said:

“The Sewel Convention has an important role in facilitating harmonious relationships between the UK parliament and the devolved legislatures. But the policing of its scope and the manner of its operation does not lie within the constitutional remit of the judiciary”.

European Union (Notification of Withdrawal) Bill

Seema Malhotra Excerpts

2nd reading: House of Commons
Wednesday 1st February 2017 Commons Chamber

[Seema Malhotra (Feltham and Heston) (Lab/Co-op)]

Periodically, a nation has to stand tall and say what ideas it is driven by, and what values lead its sense of direction and its destiny. I am proud of all we have achieved as members of the European Union in terms of not only our economy and our security, but the peace between our nations, which, twice in the last century, were at war.

I campaigned hard for remain, but I accept the result. I will not vote against Second Reading, but I will not criticise others for making a different choice. I am sad that tonight this House will take the first step in what I believe is the wrong direction for this country—a country in which I was proud to be born, which has shaped me through its openness and generosity of spirit, and which has shaped my very firm sense of partnership with other nations and of the need for an internationalist politics. The Government’s responsibility has never been greater.

This must not be, or feel like, the end of the debate. It is right that tomorrow the Government will be publishing a White Paper; it is wrong that we did not have it before. It is right that we have a vote; it is wrong that it took the Supreme Court to make it happen. A vote for article 50 today is not a blank cheque. It must be for this House to be consulted and to meaningfully vote on the final deal. This Bill has been tightly written to limit the ability of MPs to amend it, but it is clear that the views of Members of this House will not be silenced.

I want to make three broad points in my contribution to this debate. First, we should not rule out membership of the single market, but instead make the case for EU-wide reforms of the freedom of movement that can give member states greater control if they wish it.

Secondly, we must engage the public. That is why the Prime Minister should bring forward a national convention that includes MEPs, elected Mayors, nations, devolved Administrations, local government, universities and higher education, civil society, business and others. The public were asked their view about our membership of the European Union, and they should also be properly involved in the debate about our future.

Thirdly, there are the needs of our young people. They are our future, and we have a stake in their success, too. The way we conduct this debate and make decisions, the language we use and the way we design in relationship-building between young people across borders will be a gift we give to the next generation. That is why I am tabling amendments that call on the Government to set priorities for young people in their negotiations, retaining the rights and opportunities for young people to work, study and travel visa-free if they are under 25, so that they do not become worse off than their European counterparts.

The referendum was not a proud moment in our nation’s history, but there is more than one way to Brexit. There are risks, and we must be open about that, but we must also have an evidence-based debate: our prosperity, our security, and our respect and our place in the world depend on it.

Article 50

Seema Malhotra Excerpts

Monday 7th November 2016 Commons Chamber

[Mr Davis]

As my right hon. and learned Friend will know better than almost anyone else in this House, that is precisely what is being tested in the courts right now.

[Seema Malhotra (Feltham and Heston) (Lab/Co-op)]

I add my support to the principle of—and the urgent need to clarify and state—the independence of the judiciary, and its importance for our rule of law. I believe that it is to our shame that we are having this discussion at all, and that it is incumbent on every Member of this House, and of the media, to uphold the language and the high standard of debate that this country needs and deserves. If the Secretary of State wants the best deal for the country and the best chance of success in negotiations, does he not think that the Prime Minister will be helped by going into those negotiations with a united country, a thorough debate that is public and transparent, and the vote of support of Parliament behind her?

[Mr Davis]

I reiterate that the independence of the judiciary is one of the fundamental pillars of our democracy, as is a free press and a number of other freedoms that are sometimes uncomfortable for people, I am afraid. Of course it would help to have the support of the House, and there will be plenty of opportunities for that to happen. During the great repeal Bill debates there will be a great deal of opportunity for all parts of this House and the other place to vote on the measures put before them. That will provide some support for the Government.

Parliamentary Scrutiny of Leaving the EU

Seema Malhotra Excerpts

Wednesday 12th October 2016 Commons Chamber

[Ms Gisela Stuart (Birmingham, Edgbaston) (Lab)]

This afternoon has shown that there are still some very sore feelings on both sides of the argument, and that we are slowly moving towards overcoming the hurt, and in some cases bitterness, over what has happened. I recommend to everyone the speech by the right hon. Member for North East Bedfordshire (Alistair Burt), not just because of what he said, but because of the tone in which he delivered it. As the suffragettes would have said, “It is not just words, but deeds.” It is all very well to say, “Now we must all be very friendly together,” but we must deliver it in a tone that recognises there is still a lot of healing to be done. That was also clear in the speech by the hon. Member for Grantham and Stamford (Nick Boles).

I want us to move on to a point where we can start to look beyond the process and at some of the policies. We need to get to a point where there are elements of agreement about what the vote to leave meant. In the context of language, I rather regret that we ended up with the term Brexit. It was a vote to leave. It was a vote to have control of our laws, our taxes and our borders. It was a vote to be able to hold those who make decisions on those three areas accountable and, most importantly, to be able to remove them if we disagree with them. Of course, we all talk to our voters.

I want to raise two things. The first is an initiative that was started today by Change Britain, an organisation that I chair, called “Welcome to stay”. It asks people to sign up to the basic principle that EU citizens who are here have rights. We should recognise those rights as soon as possible and ensure that we continue to be an open, outward-looking and welcoming country. That is important not just for the United Kingdom; it is equally important for UK citizens living in the rest of Europe. The sooner we establish that principle, the better it will be. It will establish a tone for the continuing debate.

[Seema Malhotra (Feltham and Heston) (Lab/Co-op)]

Does my right hon. Friend agree that we need to clarify the situation for those who might want to invest or to live here in the next two years? I heard today of a contract that has been lost in my constituency because a German national was going to invest, but is now uncertain about where he will be and what his status will be in two years’ time.

[Ms Stuart]

My hon. Friend is right that overcoming uncertainty must be a priority, but if I had to choose what should come first, I think that people’s status and ability to plan is more important, and that we should then talk about trade arrangements. However, she is right that we have to get the best deal for this country.

Over the past few weeks, I have not only talked to constituents, but gone out with Change Britain and talked to a lot of people across the country. On the subject of immigration, which was so significant and important, what came out of the focus groups was a belief that democracy means that people have a say on what the rules are. People wanted those rules to be fair and to apply equally to every person from outside the United Kingdom, whether they are in the EU or not. Those in working-class communities, many of them Labour voters, who voted in significant numbers to leave, said that politicians should deliver on their promises. A particular challenge for Labour is that if our constituencies voted one way and our party’s position was another, we really should not be going around saying, “Anything bad that happens from now on is the fault of your decision.”

This is a moment when all of us should spend a lot of time listening to what people have said. The referendum has shown us two things. The first is that we need to revisit the basis on which we fight referendums and how they fit in with our parliamentary processes, but let us park that one. The second is a deep disillusionment with the political processes. Those will not be healed by a friendly, or sometimes not so friendly, banter across these Benches. They will be healed only if we start to go out in a non-partisan way, listen to what people are saying in a non-judgmental way and then respond, particularly in those areas that feel they have been left behind. I think we have started to take the first step in that process today, but we must recognise that it is only the first step. When we talk about seeking consensus, there is a responsibility on both sides to try to achieve that. If we want to put the national interest first, we should start by showing it in here, that the nation matters more.

--- Later in debate ---

[Neil Carmichael (Stroud) (Con)]

First, I acknowledge the result and accept that its consequence is that Britain will leave the European Union, as I would have expected people to have done back in 1975 when we last had a referendum on this subject. My second point is that it is really critical to recognise that a binary decision of this nature opens up so many issues, and we have to think carefully about them all. I am going to list a few.

Obviously, one issue is the economy. We must think of some tests to have in our minds over the next two or so years about the value of our pound, the development of our trade, the trends in foreign direct investment, employment characteristics and so on. If we do not have such tests, we will lose sight of a fundamental point: back in June the electorate did not vote to become poorer. They are expecting something different.

The problem is that the clarion calls of hope and confidence that we have heard today, combined with the sense that there is a horizon over there that we will get to, will simply not be enough in terms of setting out our future. We have to think carefully about the detail. As anyone connected with the European Scrutiny Committee should know, we have been listening to detail about what happens in the European Union for years. It cannot be surprising that there must be detail as we leave the European Union. That point needs really to be taken on board.

The question of the single market is imperative. It is all very well saying, “Oh well, we’re going to leave the European Union, so we will leave the single market,” but to leave the world’s freest trade area without rhyme or reason will be verging on an act of national self-harm unless we have some alternative. We have to understand the importance of that issue.

How do we scrutinise? Back in the early 1990s, the Maastricht treaty was thoroughly scrutinised—not by a portion of Parliament, but by the whole of Parliament; various Members who now suggest that we might not want to scrutinise things terribly much were at the forefront of that scrutiny in the 1990s. We should remember that.

[Seema Malhotra]

Does the hon. Gentleman agree that the way in which we deal with the single market is fundamental for a very different reason? It is about not just the sale of goods, but the development and production of goods, as outlined in some earlier speeches, because our economies are far more connected in terms of the production of goods.

[Neil Carmichael]

Absolutely right. I have talked many times in this Chamber about the importance of free movement and the importance of the single market in connection with supply chains, investment and so on. That is central to the single market argument.

That reminds me of an important point made earlier: we have to make sure that we have some friends in the world so that we can deal with them later. We face risks—with Russia and other nation states—and it is imperative to make sure we are friendly with the remaining 27 member states of the European Union post-Brexit. The way in which we conduct ourselves is absolutely essential to building up those friendships and to making sure those bridges are protected and, indeed, strengthened, and, my goodness, we will need them.

This issue is also about something my right hon. Friend the Member for North East Bedfordshire (Alistair Burt) correctly pointed out: we have to think about bringing people together; we have to think about what kind of nation we are creating post-Brexit and how we are going to present ourselves to the world, because we are engaged not just in an internal argument but an external process, and it involves not just Europe but the rest of the world. If we end up being reliant on the World Trade Organisation, 163 nation states will be able to say, “Aha, we might not let them in.” We are busy criticising one or two of those nation states right now, so we need to think carefully about our relationships with some of them.

As regards Select Committees, the Education Committee will be doing a full-scale inquiry into the consequences of Brexit on the university sector, picking up some of the points we have heard about skills. One reason the referendum went the way it did was that we have a mismatch between the skills we have produced and the skills we need. That is one of the things my hon. Friend the Member for Grantham and Stamford (Nick Boles) was referring to when he talked about why we lost, and we must learn from those reasons and make sure that all our Select Committees play their part.