Recognition of Fibromyalgia as a Disability

Scott Mann Excerpts
Tuesday 15th January 2019

(5 years, 5 months ago)

Westminster Hall
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Toby Perkins Portrait Toby Perkins
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I recognise that, and I also recognise how stretched our national health service is more generally and the need for us to have that specialist help as early as possible. One thing that is becoming clear is that the delay in diagnosis allows the condition to get worse, which adds to the cost of treating it further down the line. Anything that can be done to speed up the diagnosis will have many economic benefits, as well as medical ones, down the line.

While the suffering and economic cost of treating and supporting fibromyalgia sufferers is so large and the knowledge base on what causes it and how to treat it is so small, this is an area that is ripe for further research. In the Library note we received before the debate, we were told that in the past five years, funding applications for around £1.8 million worth of research were approved. In a single year—I appreciate why this is a false comparison, but it provides some context none the less—the UK spends over £400 million on cancer research. Of course, I do not for a second underestimate the value of research into cancer, but given the problems that fibromyalgia causes and how long patients will live with it, surely we should be spending more than 0.5% of the investment into cancer research on researching the grave and widespread menace that is fibromyalgia.

Scott Mann Portrait Scott Mann (North Cornwall) (Con)
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Will the hon. Gentleman give way?

Toby Perkins Portrait Toby Perkins
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What can we do to raise awareness of fibromyalgia? I think we will hear from the hon. Gentleman particularly on that subject.

Scott Mann Portrait Scott Mann
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I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for bringing this debate to the Chamber; as the number of people here shows, many of us have been written to by our constituents. I did a little bit of research, and it seems to me that the USA and Sweden both have good research teams looking at this condition and how it might be helped. Does he think the UK Government should look at what Sweden and America are doing on this particular disease to see how we might be able to help out?

Toby Perkins Portrait Toby Perkins
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I do. While Sweden and America have very different kinds of healthcare system, the hon. Gentleman is right that they both have world-leading research capabilities. Clearly, there is a big question for future UK medical research about our leaving the European Union; a great deal of medical research is much easier to do when we have 28 countries paying into it, rather than just one. However, whether collectively with other countries or individually, we have absolutely world-class medical research capabilities in this country and we should contribute towards the global knowledge base on fibromyalgia. The hon. Gentleman makes an important point in saying that.

What can we do to raise awareness of fibromyalgia? Today’s debate is the latest step towards doing just that. We have already had the presentation of the petition, and the fibro campaigners also held a reception in Portcullis House. Around 25 MPs came along to hear more about what life with fibromyalgia is like, and I was delighted that Adrienne Lakin and Billy Mansell were able to present at that reception and to get across to Members a little bit about the impact that it has had. The debate is another important step, and we look forward to hearing more about the Government’s strategy on recognising the effects of fibromyalgia on sufferers and what more they will do to raise awareness.

The petition was also specific about recognising fibromyalgia as a disability under the Equality Act 2010, which is an important and contentious issue. Providers of public services are required to make accommodations for people with disabilities. Many fibromyalgia sufferers would qualify as disabled in their own right, but each sufferer has to prove their own disability. Given that, as we have heard, the condition can take more than a year to diagnose in the first place, it is often quite a bit after that before sufferers are actually recognised as disabled. While many people manage their symptoms and go on to enjoy productive lives, the invisibility of fibromyalgia and the difficulty of diagnosis means that many patients are not recognised as disabled and are often invisible sufferers. As we have heard, that has a knock-on impact on their families, who often attempt to manage caring responsibilities alongside their responsibilities as breadwinners, trying to keep food on the table.

Once diagnosed, fibromyalgia sufferers would like the Government and the Department for Work and Pensions to recognise them as disabled under the Equality Act, ensuring that they get any support that they need to lead productive lives. Of course different patients will have different attributes and needs, but it is a chronic condition that will not get better. Ensuring that they do not have to fight to be taken seriously would be of real value. We heard previously that fibromyalgia may affect as many as 5% of the population, yet less than 0.2% receive PIP due to having it.

I am delighted to set the ball rolling on this important debate and look forward to hearing the perspectives of other hon. Members. Fibromyalgia sufferers need greater certainty, greater research and greater awareness. Collectively, we as a country need to do more to ensure that we not only understand but support them in their illness and in their desire to lead productive lives.

ESA: People with Motor Neurone Disease

Scott Mann Excerpts
Wednesday 11th July 2018

(5 years, 11 months ago)

Westminster Hall
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Stephen Twigg Portrait Stephen Twigg
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My hon. Friend hits the nail on the head. It is about supporting people and their families through what are, by definition, the toughest times of their lives, and about ensuring that there are no unnecessary barriers to their living the most fulfilling life they can.

I will briefly set out the basis of ESA, which will enable me to make my argument about reassessment. ESA is a benefit for adults with long-term disabilities or medical conditions that affect their ability to work. It is conditional, so some claimants have to take part in work-related assessments to claim their benefits; and it has two tiers—the work-related activity group and the support group. The work-related activity group is for those claimants whom the Department considers capable of working again at some point in the future. People in that group typically receive less financial support than those in the support group and are expected to undertake regular work-related activities with an adviser. Roughly half a dozen people with MND are in that tier.

The second tier is the support group, which is for those whom the DWP considers to have a limited capacity to work. It includes people who have almost no prospect of working again in the future because of their disability. These claimants tend to receive a higher level of support and do not need to undertake the same work-related activities to guarantee their benefits. It is estimated that approximately 600 people with MND fall into that tier.

When applying for ESA, claimants must undergo a work capability assessment, which is used to determine which tier claimants are streamed into. Reassessments are common, to ensure that people are correctly tiered. The maximum amount of time between reassessments is two years.

Scott Mann Portrait Scott Mann (North Cornwall) (Con)
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A concern of my constituents is the challenges of the benefits system for people with this illness, and how that snowballs and affects their lives. Most people receive the correct financial support after their assessment. However, there are people with this long-term condition, which will not improve. Does the hon. Gentleman agree that, once somebody with MND has been assessed, they should not be continually reassessed to see whether their condition will improve in the future?

Stephen Twigg Portrait Stephen Twigg
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I agree entirely. In fact, he anticipates what I am about to say. It is excellent that the debate has cross-party support from Back-Bench Members, so I am grateful for that intervention. Reassessments are my point of grievance with the Government.

Last September, the Department announced that new claimants with the most severe disabilities who apply for ESA will be exempt from reassessment. That is because, as the hon. Gentleman just said, many people with the most severe disabilities have little to no chance of their condition improving. The announcement was, of course, hugely welcome. However, the exemption applies to new claimants, not to those people with long-term conditions who were already in the support group before September 2017.

People with MND—of course, this also applies to other conditions, but today’s focus is on motor neurone disease—who were already in the support group last September are required to undergo a final assessment in order to be exempt. The Government have provided assurances that the final assessment for people with MND will be mostly paper-based, but that is not guaranteed, and the paper-based system is itself not straightforward. It requires filling out a complicated 26-page form. Having to complete such a form is surely an unnecessary further stress for people living with MND. Complications or issues with the paper assessment could mean that claimants are required to attend another face-to-face assessment.

If a claimant has received a confirmed diagnosis of MND or another permanent condition that holds no prospect of recovery and they are already in the support group, there is surely no point in subjecting them to a final assessment. The nature of the claimant’s condition means that another assessment is redundant. It not only causes the claimant further stress and anxiety, but wastes public money on a needless reassessment. People with MND who are in the support group will already have undergone at least one assessment of their ability to work. Given the progressively debilitating nature of MND, their symptoms will almost certainly have got worse since that assessment.

In February, representatives of the Motor Neurone Disease Association met the Minister for Disabled People, Health and Work at the Department to discuss this specific issue. They took with them an open letter, signed by more than 8,000 people, which called on the Government to end mandatory reassessments for claimants with MND. My understanding is that the Minister committed to finding a solution that would exempt people with MND from reassessments, but she said that that would not happen until a review of the Government’s entire exemption policy had taken place. The Minister sent a letter to the MNDA following that meeting. It is welcome that the Minister has discussed a possible solution to this matter with her officials. However, the lack of reference to an imminent solution for those already in the support group is worrying and is causing further anxiety.

Oral Answers to Questions

Scott Mann Excerpts
Monday 2nd July 2018

(5 years, 11 months ago)

Commons Chamber
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Sarah Newton Portrait Sarah Newton
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I very much look forward to our meeting, and hope that the hon. Gentleman will welcome the recent changes. We have worked closely with disabled people and charities. We introduced the severe conditions criteria so that if people are on the highest levels of employment and support allowance or PIP and their condition is, sadly, not going to improve, their claim will be extended almost indefinitely.

Scott Mann Portrait Scott Mann (North Cornwall) (Con)
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14. What steps the Government have taken to encourage assisted technology as a means to help disabled people into the workplace.

Sarah Newton Portrait The Minister for Disabled People, Health and Work (Sarah Newton)
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We are committed to making sure that all disabled people who want to work have the opportunity to do so. I am really pleased that, over the past four years, more than 600,000 more disabled people are in work. Assistive technology is of course playing a key role in that. We support such initiatives through the Access to Work tech fund and Disability Confident.

Scott Mann Portrait Scott Mann
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The Minister will know that autonomous vehicle technology is moving along quickly. Does she agree that autonomous vehicles could give people increased social mobility, and enable people with physical disabilities or those who are partially sighted to access work?

Sarah Newton Portrait Sarah Newton
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My hon. Friend raises an important point. The Government are investing hundreds of millions into research and development to make sure that we fully understand the potential of autonomous vehicles and make sure that they really do benefit disabled people.

Oral Answers to Questions

Scott Mann Excerpts
Monday 21st May 2018

(6 years, 1 month ago)

Commons Chamber
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Sarah Newton Portrait Sarah Newton
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I am working very closely with the independent advisory board, which advises on which conditions should go on to the list for which people can receive severe disability payments. My meetings with the board are ongoing.

Scott Mann Portrait Scott Mann (North Cornwall) (Con)
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A small number of my constituents do not have the digital skills or the equipment to be able to process their universal credit online. What is the Department doing to help them?

Alok Sharma Portrait Alok Sharma
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Ninety-nine per cent. of universal credit claims are made online, and those who need support to gain basic digital skills are offered digital support as part of our universal support offering.

Oral Answers to Questions

Scott Mann Excerpts
Monday 26th March 2018

(6 years, 2 months ago)

Commons Chamber
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Guy Opperman Portrait Guy Opperman
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Yes, yes and Project Bloom, a City of London police operation to ensure that we stop scammers, has brought many prosecutions—pending and future.

Scott Mann Portrait Scott Mann (North Cornwall) (Con)
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11. What progress her Department has made on the implementation of the disability confident scheme.

Sarah Newton Portrait The Minister for Disabled People, Health and Work (Sarah Newton)
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I am pleased that there are 600,000 more disabled people in work than four years ago. Disability confident employers are contributing to the thousands more jobs that we have created every week since 2010. There are now just under 6,000 employers signed up to the disability confident scheme. I am delighted that all Departments have achieved disability confident leader status.

Scott Mann Portrait Scott Mann
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Seasalt is a fantastic, disability confident business in Cornwall. It is a great Cornish fashion and home hardware business that employs over 500 people. What more can be done to encourage more Cornish companies to take on this fantastic scheme?

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Esther McVey Portrait Ms McVey
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When we have, or if we have ever, underpaid people, we will support them, make sure that it is correct and pay them back.

Scott Mann Portrait Scott Mann (North Cornwall) (Con)
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T4. Will my right hon. Friend confirm that the new support for mortgage interest scheme has been specifically designed to maintain people in their homes and that none of my constituents should be concerned about the day-to-day payments on their mortgages?

Kit Malthouse Portrait The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Work and Pensions (Kit Malthouse)
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My hon. Friend raises an important point, not least because we are approaching the deadline for the switchover of SMI from a benefit to a loan. He is absolutely right—this change is specifically designed to keep people in their homes. I urge people to ignore the scare stories being put around, look at the paperwork, take the phone call that has been made and ensure they make a good decision in time.

Pension Equality for Women

Scott Mann Excerpts
Thursday 14th December 2017

(6 years, 6 months ago)

Commons Chamber
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Grahame Morris Portrait Grahame Morris
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Absolutely. The hon. Gentleman, with typical alacrity, has hit the nail on the head. Nevertheless, there is an injustice that must be rectified, and the Government need to do that.

Scott Mann Portrait Scott Mann (North Cornwall) (Con)
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Does the hon. Gentleman contend that the changes in 1995 were wrong, or were the changes in 2011 wrong? Many people I have met feel that the 2011 changes were too rapid.

Grahame Morris Portrait Grahame Morris
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The fundamental point, which has also been made by Government Members, is the lack of notice about the 1995 changes, and in some cases, the failure to give any notice at all. There is an issue of communication. A number of groups are campaigning on this issue, and there is a general acceptance of the need to equalise state retirement pension age—I do not think there is dispute about that and we are in agreement on it. The issue is the phasing, and the acceleration of that phasing in of the original changes in 1995.

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Scott Mann Portrait Scott Mann (North Cornwall) (Con)
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It is a pleasure to follow the hon. Member for Coventry South (Mr Cunningham), and I congratulate the hon. Member for Easington (Grahame Morris) on securing this important debate. I am here to speak on behalf of my North Cornwall WASPI women. I have met them numerous times at different events over the past two and a half years. I presented a petition on their behalf last year, and many of them have come to see me at surgeries in the towns and villages of my constituency to express their concern about the challenging times that many women are facing. Other hon. Members have alluded to some of those challenges today.

Most people who come to see me have worked their entire life. They might well own their own home and not be in a position to make the transition for those 18 months. I support transitional measures for our WASPI women, and I believe we can reach a practical solution by reducing the state pension over a longer period of time. Private pension providers already allow that. The option should be given to people with public pensions.

The changes in 2011 were rushed and wrong. The equalisation of pensions from 1995 was the right thing to do but, with increases of between two months and 18 months, people have suffered in different ways, which we should acknowledge. People should be able to take their pension earlier, or have the option to wait and have the £159 a week, as it currently sits. I have produced some figures, and my benchmarks are based on the current life expectancy for a woman in the UK of 83 and the pension age in 1995 of 66.

At the moment, the state pension is £159.55 a week. Over the 17 years leading up to average life expectancy, the pension would cost just over £141,000. I have done some modelling based on £130 a week, £140 a week and £150 a week for a reduced pension over a longer period. I have used the baseline to measure that against the least affected women, those affected for two months, and the most affected women, those affected for 18 months.

I put together my proposals over the past few days. The conclusion I have reached, according to the figures, is that the only group that would be affected if the proposals were introduced are the people who have to wait for 18 months, the most affected group. Even then, the Government would have to find only £2,357 over the lifetime of the pension. All the other models come out positively for the Government. We should do this as a gesture to the affected women.

Will the Minister sit down with me to look through my figures to see whether there is a satisfactory solution to the problem? I am happy to meet him if he is happy to meet me. We should consider a sensible way forward. I am not entirely sure I will be here for the winding-up speeches, but I would welcome the opportunity to meet the Minister at a later date to discuss a practical solution.

Oral Answers to Questions

Scott Mann Excerpts
Monday 9th January 2017

(7 years, 5 months ago)

Commons Chamber
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David Amess Portrait Sir David Amess (Southend West) (Con)
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8. What steps the Government are taking to support self-employed people.

Scott Mann Portrait Scott Mann (North Cornwall) (Con)
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14. What steps the Government are taking to support self-employed people.

David Morris Portrait David Morris (Morecambe and Lunesdale) (Con)
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21. What steps the Government are taking to support self-employed people.

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Damian Green Portrait Damian Green
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I am happy to tell my hon. Friend that tax affairs are not my direct responsibility, but the Treasury will have heard what he had to say. What I can say is that Jobcentre Plus is always keen to help small businesses with individual problems they may have, such as with the use of online forms, and I hope that businesses in his constituency would find the jobcentre a helpful place to consult.

Scott Mann Portrait Scott Mann
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In Cornwall, unemployment has continued to fall year on year to record low levels, and the county now has 61,000 self-employed people. Does my right hon. Friend agree that only under a Conservative Government can we continue to increase employment in Cornwall and further improve the creation of small businesses in those communities?

Damian Green Portrait Damian Green
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

My hon. Friend makes a good point, and I know that in his constituency self-employment has increased by 7.6% since 2010. As I said in answer to previous questions, the UK labour market is in its strongest position for years. Clearly, the best way to promote new growth in jobs is to promote growth in small businesses, and I am delighted to hear it is going so well in Cornwall.

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Penny Mordaunt Portrait Penny Mordaunt
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We are looking at this issue. We are also looking at those who might wish to travel overseas, for whatever reason, whether for work or a travel option, and we are working very closely with Motability to see what can be done in those instances.

Scott Mann Portrait Scott Mann (North Cornwall) (Con)
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T1. If he will make a statement on his departmental responsibilities.

Damian Green Portrait The Secretary of State for Work and Pensions (Damian Green)
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

As part of the comprehensive package of reforms to improve mental health support announced by the Prime Minister this morning, my Department will be undertaking an expert-led review on how best to ensure that employees with mental health problems can be supported. That will involve practical help, including promoting best practice among employers and making available free tools to businesses to assist with employee wellbeing. We will also be conducting an internal review of discrimination in the workplace against people with mental health conditions. Those reviews will build on our Green Paper consultation to help to establish the evidence base around mental health and employment.

Scott Mann Portrait Scott Mann
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I welcome the news that 95,000 businesses have been helped by the new enterprise allowance. Can the Minister tell me how many of those are in North Cornwall, or in Cornwall as a whole?

Damian Green Portrait Damian Green
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I too welcome those figures. I can tell my hon. Friend that the new enterprise allowance has helped to create nearly 100 new businesses in North Cornwall since it began. We are moving to a second phase, beginning this April, with an improved NEA. Since it began, over one in five businesses supported by the NEA have been started by disabled entrepreneurs, which is an extremely encouraging development.

Oral Answers to Questions

Scott Mann Excerpts
Monday 21st November 2016

(7 years, 7 months ago)

Commons Chamber
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Penny Mordaunt Portrait Penny Mordaunt
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Since then we have introduced a number of new measures, including improved training and additional recruitment. We are also monitoring to ensure those doing assessments are referring to mental health services if they feel that that is required.

Scott Mann Portrait Scott Mann (North Cornwall) (Con)
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Fourteen-year old Olivia in North Cornwall is the primary carer for her mother, who has multiple sclerosis. PIP assessments create uncertainty for Olivia; no one else in her household is able to work or to care for her mother. Will my hon. Friend applaud young carers such as Olivia? In the light of the DWP’s proposed end to reassessment for people with long-term illnesses, will she consider extending this to people who rely on children to care for them until such time as those children have finished further education?

Penny Mordaunt Portrait Penny Mordaunt
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I certainly pay tribute to Olivia and the thousands like her who do a physically and emotionally demanding job for their loved ones. We recognise the principle. We have made changes to ESA reassessments and the Green Paper affords us the opportunity to look at how that principle could be applied to PIP. It might be to my hon. Friend’s constituent’s advantage to have further PIP assessments because her needs might increase, but there is an opportunity to have a much more streamlined process, which I hope the Green Paper will deliver.

Benefit Entitlement (Restriction) Bill

Scott Mann Excerpts
Friday 5th February 2016

(8 years, 4 months ago)

Commons Chamber
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Christopher Chope Portrait Mr Christopher Chope (Christchurch) (Con)
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I beg to move, That the Bill be now read a Second time.

Again, this Bill is a reiteration of one I introduced to the House previously, but that was first brought forward two years ago, rather than one. It sets out clearly what we need to do in relation to the benefit entitlements of those who are not UK citizens. It would:

“Make provision to restrict the entitlement of non-UK Citizens from the European Union and the European Economic Area to taxpayer-funded benefits.”

Interestingly, the Bill is put in identical terms to the one introduced in the 2013-14 Session. When I introduced that Bill on 17 January 2014, it received a lot of sympathy from the Government at the time, and I shall briefly cite some of the things that were said.

I said that the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions, whom I am delighted to say is still in post, had the week prior to the introduction of my Bill been quoted in The Sunday Times with a big headline saying “Ban migrant welfare for two years”. When that issue was examined, it turned out that it could not be done then and it was an “aspiration” rather than a “policy”. I quoted the following:

“Sources close to Mr Duncan Smith stressed he was expressing an aspiration for the future, rather than spelling out a policy.”—[Official Report, 17 January 2014; Vol. 573, c. 1138.]

The background is, therefore, that the Government at that stage were keen on limiting welfare for migrants from the European Union and the EEA.

One interesting aspect of that debate was that the problem had also been referred to by Dominic Lawson in The Sunday Times. He had pointed out that none other than Milton Friedman, that great free market economist who believed in open borders, had asserted that one

“can have a generous welfare state or open borders, but not both...There is no doubt that free and open immigration is the right policy in a libertarian state, but in a welfare state it is a different story: the supply of immigrants will become infinite.”

That is the issue that my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister has been trying to address in his negotiations with other members of the European Union; we cannot have both open borders and unrestricted welfare. Of course, if we believed in a single superstate, as our European colleagues do, the issue would not arise, because we would all be living in one great state, with people moving freely from country to country with uniform benefits systems. That is not the policy of the present Government, and it is certainly not the wish of the British people.

Two years ago, we were hoping for a renegotiation, followed by a Conservative victory in the general election, with the promise of an EU referendum. The renegotiation is now taking place, but it is very sad to see the extent to which our aspirations have been watered down. Even the then Deputy Prime Minister said that it was wrong that people from countries elsewhere in the European economic area should be able to access child benefit for children living in another country. That issue was addressed specifically by the Conservative party at the recent general election, because our manifesto stated that we would ensure that nobody could access child benefit from the United Kingdom taxpayer for a child living elsewhere. Again, that seems to have been rejected in these renegotiations, which is very disappointing.

Scott Mann Portrait Scott Mann (North Cornwall) (Con)
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How does my hon. Friend think the general public feel about the current renegotiation and the watered-down benefit reforms?

Christopher Chope Portrait Mr Chope
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

I think that the opinion polls tell the story—I am told that another one was published today. I think that the British public are enormously sceptical about the outcome of the renegotiation, and enormously concerned that those aspects that were spelled out precisely in our manifesto have so far not been realised.

Scott Mann Portrait Scott Mann
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What does my hon. Friend think about the fact that the watered-down version we were presented with seems to have been watered down even further, with countries such as France and Germany suggesting that they might not support the legislation that the Prime Minister has already agreed?

Christopher Chope Portrait Mr Chope
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

I am grateful to my hon. Friend for his intervention, but I am not going to go down that route, because my view is that, even if the high watermark of what the Prime Minister said in his recent statement, which is reflected in the documents produced by the European Commission, is maintained, it still falls significantly short of what we promised in our manifesto, and we will still be a million miles away from being able to remove access to benefits, which is what this Bill aspires to achieve and what the British people overwhelmingly support.

The Prime Minister answered questions after his statement to the House on renegotiation on Wednesday.

He said:

“40% of EU migrants coming to Britain access the in-work benefits system, and the average payment per family is £6,000…I think that more than 10,000 people are getting over £10,000 a year, and because people get instant access to our benefits system, it is an unnatural pull and draw to our country.”—[Official Report, 3 February 2016; Vol. 605, c. 939.]

There is a dispute about the extent to which such access brings large numbers of people in, but in any event the British people find it an affront that the money of those who have paid their taxes and into our insurance system for years is being used to fund people from another country who have not made such contributions.

There is a big issue here. Like my hon. Friend the Member for North Cornwall (Scott Mann), I am not convinced that the Government have achieved enough, even at the high watermark, to satisfy myself and others. The only solution is to leave. [Interruption.] The hon. Member for Oldham East and Saddleworth (Debbie Abrahams) is laughing, but she will see that clauses 2, 3 and 4 of the Bill have to include the words

“Notwithstanding the provisions of the European Communities Act 1972”.

In other words, in each of those clauses I acknowledge that, under current European Union law, we cannot change our own law as we would wish.

In answering the debate that we had two years ago about this issue, the Minister then responsible, my right hon. Friend the Member for Hemel Hempstead (Mike Penning), said that, although he might be tempted, he could not support the Bill because he would be in breach of the ministerial code in supporting a policy that could give rise to infraction proceedings. I fear that the Under-Secretary of State for Disabled People, my hon. Friend the Member for North Swindon (Justin Tomlinson), whom I am delighted to see on the Front Bench today, is in exactly the same position: despite the temptation, he could not support the Bill because in so doing he would be in breach of the ministerial code for raising the prospect of infraction proceedings.

Christopher Chope Portrait Mr Chope
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That is an interesting point. Perhaps the ministerial code will have to be adjusted to take account of the fact that those who remain Ministers while supporting notwithstanding clauses, for example, should have an exemption. However, I am sure that there are more important issues at stake than the ministerial code.

Scott Mann Portrait Scott Mann
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I hope my hon. Friend agrees that the decision will not be for this House, but for the country. I am grateful that the Conservatives went through the Lobby to put the referendum on the statute book and give people a say on whether we should be part of the European Union. Does my hon. Friend think that the decision will be made by this place or the great British general public?

Christopher Chope Portrait Mr Chope
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

The people will decide. We trust the people: that is why we are Conservatives. We look forward to the referendum whenever it comes.

I know other hon. Members wish to participate, but before closing let me turn to the issue of declaration of nationality. All the responses from the Government suggest that the scale of the problem is as the Prime Minister described it on Wednesday. However, the Government do not know at the moment how many people from the European Union or the European economic area are claiming benefits because there is no information about nationality in benefit claims. When my right hon. Friend the Member for Hemel Hempstead responded to the Bill two years ago, he said this would all be put right under universal credit. Well, that is great, but universal credit is taking a very long time to roll out.

That is why I would be interested to hear what the Under-Secretary of State says about my suggestion in clause 1:

“From the date of the coming into force of this Act no national insurance number shall be issued unless the applicant provides a declaration of nationality…no application shall be made for a taxpayer-funded benefit unless the applicant provides a declaration of nationality.”

At the moment, we do not really have detailed information; all we have are some rough and ready calculations.

We know there are large numbers of people in our country claiming from the benefits system who are not UK nationals. The Bill would address that problem full on and ensure that non-UK citizens from the European Union and the European economic area were not able to access our taxpayer-funded benefits. That is why I have the pleasure of begging to move that the Bill be read a Second time.