The Secretary of State’s Handling of Universal Credit

Rosie Winterton Excerpts

Wednesday 11th July 2018 Commons Chamber

[Margaret Greenwood]

I am not going to give way and I would point out that the right hon. Gentleman has called the report “shoddy”, so excuse me if I continue. Thirdly, the Secretary of State claimed that universal—[Interruption.]

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Rosie Winterton)]

Order. If the hon. Lady does not want to give way, it is completely up to her.

[Margaret Greenwood]

Thirdly, the Secretary of State claimed that universal credit is working.

[Simon Hoare]

On a point of order, Madam Deputy Speaker. Is it not a custom in this place, out of common courtesy, that when one hon. Member references another—either by name or by constituency—and that Member then seeks to intervene, the request is usually acceded to?

[Madam Deputy Speaker]

It is absolutely up to the hon. Lady whether to take any interventions. Hon. Members really should not be interrupting speeches with points of order over and again. It is becoming a bit of a habit, and not a very healthy one.

[Margaret Greenwood]

Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker.

Thirdly, the Secretary of State claimed that universal credit is working. The head of the NAO said in his letter that this is unproven. The DWP’s own survey of claimants under the full service published in June shows that just under half of all claimants were unable to register their claim online unassisted, a quarter were not able to submit their claim online at all and 40% were falling behind with bills or experiencing real financial difficulties, sometimes even nine months into their claim. A recent freedom of information request revealed that a fifth of universal credit claims are failing at an early stage because claimants are not able to navigate the online system. These people are likely to be among the most vulnerable in our society, and this Government are failing them.

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[Margaret Greenwood]

I have three minutes of my speech left, so I will take no more interventions.

The Secretary of State claimed that the NAO report did not take account of the impact of recent Government changes. However, there have been no recent changes to support people in making and managing their claim online, and we know that the Government’s universal support programme receives only limited funding. The payment delays that people are experiencing are shocking.

The DWP this week published figures on the length of payment delays for new claims due in February. The Library estimates that nearly 13,000 people were not paid in full on time and 7,500 people did not receive any payment on time at all. In December, two thirds of disabled people with limited capability for work were not paid in full on time, and last year 113,000 people—a quarter of new claims—were not paid in full on time. This is outrageous. Why were they not paid in full on time and what is the Secretary of State going to do about it? These are people on low incomes who often do not have any savings to rely on in these circumstances. The delays are causing real hardship for people, leading them to build up debt and rent arrears.

The Residential Landlords Association has made it clear that private landlords are increasingly reluctant to rent to people claiming universal credit. The National Housing Federation this week reported that nearly three quarters of housing association tenants in England claiming universal credit are in debt, compared with less than a third of all other tenants. The Government claim that no one should have to suffer hardship because advances are available, although, as the NAO said, the Government

“has not measured the impact on claimants or assessed how much hardship Universal Credit claimants suffer.”

Should it not be the Government’s duty to understand the effectiveness of their own social security system?

Advances have to be paid back, often on top of debts for utility bills and council tax arrears built up while waiting for the initial payment. One of the Secretary of State’s senior officials told the Public Accounts Committee on Monday this week that the average monthly repayment of £35 a week is “not eye-wateringly large”. Maybe not to him, but what about someone on very low income struggling to cope with basic household bills? I have received so much testimony from people up and down the country on this issue. I have heard stories of people being sanctioned because they have accompanied their mother to a cancer treatment session and stories of people with special needs not receiving the support that they should.

I put it to the Government that their policy of managed migration of just under 4 million people on legacy benefits across to universal credit that is due next year risks huge problems for the people who transfer. Although they will receive transitional protection, it will only last for two years, and the DWP’s current plan is that those people will have to make a new universal credit claim. This could bring chaos.

The NAO has made it absolutely clear that the Government should not expand universal credit until they are clear that the system could cope with higher claimant volumes. If the Government fail to get this right, there will be many people whose lives are made a misery by a benefit that is meant to support them. That is why the Secretary of State’s inadvertently misleading claim that the NAO report says that the roll-out should be speeded up matters so much. Will she give an assurance that the Government will not start managed migration until it is clear that universal credit and her Department can cope with it?

Universal credit was created to simplify the social security system. Clearly, its complexity is so often defeating both claimants and the staff administering it. It was meant to lift people out of poverty; instead it is pushing many into debt. The Government claim that the Opposition are scaremongering whenever we raise issues about the suffering of our constituents. Well, the Residential Landlords Association, the National Housing Federation, Citizens Advice, the Child Poverty Action Group, the Joseph Rowntree Foundation, the Resolution Foundation and the Institute for Fiscal Studies have all raised major concerns about universal credit.

The Secretary of State repeatedly claims her Department is testing and learning, but this testing and learning is using people like guinea pigs. This is unacceptable. Where is the dignity? Her Government are causing hardship with scant regard for the devastation to families up and down the country. She must now take responsibility for the real suffering being caused by the roll-out of this flawed programme. She must call a halt to universal credit and put forward a credible plan to fix its many failings before many more people suffer.

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Rosie Winterton)]

The Question is as on the Order Paper. I call the Secretary of State.

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[Neil Coyle (Bermondsey and Old Southwark) (Lab)]

You took the disability premium away!

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Rosie Winterton)]

Order. Mr Coyle, calm down. Moderation and good temper governs our debate. You are not showing much sign of that.

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[Several hon. Members rose—]

[Madam Deputy Speaker]

Order. Before I call the spokesperson for the Scottish National party, colleagues will be aware that a large number of Members wish to speak, so I will have to impose a five-minute time limit immediately.

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[Several hon. Members rose—]

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Rosie Winterton)]

Order. I am very sorry but, because of time constraints, I will now have to impose a three-minute limit.

Universal Credit

Rosie Winterton Excerpts

Tuesday 13th March 2018 Commons Chamber

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Rosie Winterton)]

We now come to the four motions on universal credit, children and young persons and social security, which will be debated together. I must inform the House that the Speaker has certified the two motions on children and young persons as relating exclusively to England, and as falling within devolved legislative competence. The motions relating to those statutory instruments are therefore subject to double majority voting, by the whole House and by Members representing constituencies in England. I should inform colleagues that this is a three-hour debate. It is very well subscribed; there are more than 40 Back Benchers wanting to speak. I hope that both Front Benchers and Back Benchers will bear that in mind.

[Angela Rayner (Ashton-under-Lyne) (Lab)]

I beg to move,

That an humble address be presented to Her Majesty, praying that the Universal Credit (Miscellaneous Amendments Saving and Transitional Provision) Regulations 2018 (S.I., 2018, No. 65), dated 22 January, a copy of which was laid before this House on 22 January, be annulled.

[Madam Deputy Speaker]

With this it will be convenient to discuss the following motions:

That an humble Address be presented to Her Majesty, praying that the Free School Lunches and Milk, and School and Early Years Finance (Amendments Relating to Universal Credit) (England) Regulations 2018 (S.I., 2018, No. 148), dated 6 February, a copy of which was laid before this House on 7 February, be annulled.

That an humble Address be presented to Her Majesty, praying that the Local Authority (Duty to Secure Early Years Provision Free of Charge) (Amendment) Regulations 2018 (S.I., 2018, No. 146), dated 6 February, a copy of which was laid before this House on 7 February, be annulled.

That an humble Address be presented to Her Majesty, praying that Social Security (Contributions) (Amendment) Regulations 2018 (S.I., 2018, No. 120), dated 31 January, a copy of which was laid before this House on 1 February, be annulled.

[Angela Rayner]

I ask all Members of the House to bear in mind what Madam Deputy Speaker has said when they make interventions. I will try to be as brief as I possibly can.

As my right hon. Friend the Member for Hayes and Harlington (John McDonnell), the shadow Chancellor, has said, this Tory Government have created a crisis on a scale that we have not seen before. Today, they did nothing to tackle it, and in these regulations they seek to make it even worse. If the House does not vote for our motions today, more than 1 million families will lose out. First, they will lose their free school meals.

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[Angela Rayner]

The hon. Gentleman will know that the “School Food Plan” that was published in July 2013 recommended that the Government looked into free school meals for infant and junior schools. The Labour party manifesto was clear that we would just extend that. It was unfortunate that the Government chose not to do as recommended, instead just giving it to infants. If Conservative Members would like to see our costings and manifesto, I am sure I could provide that, because there were many more costings in our manifesto than there were in the Conservative manifesto—[Interruption.]

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Rosie Winterton)]

Order. This is an extremely important and very serious debate. The hon. Lady has taken a lot of interventions. When she takes interventions, there is no point in just shouting at her; it is important to listen to her answer. The same will go for when the Secretary of State is speaking.

[Angela Rayner]

Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker.

The Government are phasing out childcare vouchers as they transition to a policy of tax-free childcare, but that policy is simply not working. The introduction of tax-free childcare has been so shambolic that the Government fell 90% short of their take-up target, and spending was less than 5% of their projection. Instead, nearly £1 billion that was earmarked for childcare was returned to the Treasury. Yet the Government are still pushing ahead with their plan to phase out childcare vouchers, which will leave families hundreds of pounds worse off and directly transfer Government support to those who are better off.

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[Several hon. Members rose—]

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Rosie Winterton)]

Order. Again, can we listen to the Secretary of State? It is fine if she wants to take interventions and she has indicated that she will take some more, but I do think that hon. Members should be a bit calmer.

[Ms McVey]

I will give way to my hon. Friend the Member for Faversham and Mid Kent (Helen Whately).

Pension Equality for Women

Rosie Winterton Excerpts

Thursday 14th December 2017 Commons Chamber

[Several hon. Members rose—]

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Rosie Winterton)]

Order. Before I call Luke Pollard, I am sure that right hon. and hon. Members will be very pleased to hear that the Speaker of the Kosovo Parliament is with us. Welcome, Mr Speaker Veseli.

State Pension Age: Women

Rosie Winterton Excerpts

Wednesday 29th November 2017 Commons Chamber

[Sir Desmond Swayne (New Forest West) (Con)]

Further to that point of order, Madam Deputy Speaker.

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Rosie Winterton)]

I will first answer the original point of order. First of all, of course the Minister is being truthful. Secondly, the right hon. Member for Ross, Skye and Lochaber (Ian Blackford) knows that this subject is a matter for debate.

[Sir Desmond Swayne]

Further to that point of order, Madam Deputy Speaker. I was just going to observe the contradiction that it is impossible to, as the right hon. Member for Ross, Skye and Lochaber (Ian Blackford) said, “inadvertently seek” to mislead the House. One either misleads the House seeking to do so or not.

[Madam Deputy Speaker]

I thank the right hon. Gentleman for that helpful advice. I suggest that we move on, because time is very limited and we do not want to delay the debate further with continuous points of order.

[Guy Opperman]

I fully understand, and I will move on, but I will make one single point in reply to the right hon. Member for Ross, Skye and Lochaber. I specifically read the letter of 22 June from Jeane Freeman, quoting what she said. When the right hon. Gentleman criticises me, he should be aware and conscious that he is criticising someone from his own party.

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[Ian Blackford]

On a point of order, Madam Deputy Speaker. This is important. I pointed out earlier in the debate that the SNP published the Landman report last year and it was fully costed. The hon. Member for Redditch (Rachel Maclean) has made an error by saying that our proposal has not been costed. It has been costed precisely and she should recognise that.

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Rosie Winterton)]

That is not a point of order, it is a point of debate, and it has simply reduced the time available for other people to speak.

[Rachel Maclean]

Research has suggested that it might cost £36 billion to implement the proposals. When I speak to WASPI women in Redditch, how am I supposed to say to them, “Let’s not spend money helping your children and grandchildren”—

[Madam Deputy Speaker]

Order.

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[Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Rosie Winterton)]

Order. I am sorry, but I think the Minister had finished her speech.

[Caroline Dinenage]

In fact, I do not think that I had quite finished, Madam Deputy Speaker.

I do not think that anybody is suggesting that older women should be forced to take an apprenticeship. No one is even suggesting that they should be cajoled or encouraged to do so, but I find it insulting that SNP and Labour Members seem to be suggesting that women over the age of 60 should be put on the scrapheap and should not be allowed to do what they want. If they want to take an apprenticeship, they should be allowed to do so.

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[Ian Blackford]

On a point of order, Madam Deputy Speaker. We have just had an impassioned debate, and a clear and decisive result. This House has determined that the Government should bring in mitigation for the WASPI women. I am seeking your guidance as to what we now need to do to empower the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions to come to the Chamber, recognise parliamentary democracy, and put in place the Government’s plans to respect the motion that the House has passed.

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Rosie Winterton)]

I think that the most useful thing I can do is read out the written statement made by the Leader of the House on 26 October in which she updated the House on the Government’s approach to Opposition day debates. She said:

“Where a motion tabled by an Opposition party has been approved by the House, the relevant Minister will respond to the resolution of the House by making a statement no more than 12 weeks after the debate. This is to allow thoughtful consideration of the points that have been raised, facilitate collective discussion across Government, especially on cross-cutting issues, and to outline any actions that have been taken.”—[Official Report, 26 October 2017; Vol. 630, c. 12WS.]

I think that it is very clear what the Government will do. The right hon. Gentleman may well wish to question the Leader of the House further tomorrow, during the exchanges on the business statement, about when there might be a response from the Government.

[Kevin Brennan (Cardiff West) (Lab)]

Further to that point of order, Madam Deputy Speaker. Given the amount of time that Divisions on Opposition day motions take, would it be possible to issue Conservative Members with white flags to wave, rather than our having to put up with the inconvenience of a Division?

[Madam Deputy Speaker]

Well, that is very ingenious but, as the Speaker has said before, it is up to each individual Member to decide which way to vote, or even whether to vote.

Universal Credit Roll-out

Rosie Winterton Excerpts

Wednesday 18th October 2017 Commons Chamber

[Several hon. Members rose—]

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Rosie Winterton)]

There are still approximately 60 Members who wish to speak in this debate, so I shall reduce the time limit to three minutes after the next speaker. Do bear in mind that every intervention means that somebody else is less likely to speak, as it adds time to a speech.

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[Richard Graham]

I agree with so much of what the hon. Lady says—I love her constituency—but rather than respond to that point, let me highlight what we can all do to make sure that this is a success.

First, the moment when the landlords portal opens and our housing associations become trusted partners will be absolutely crucial, and we need to know when it is going to happen for which housing associations. Secondly, I believe that if we have a main housing association in our constituency, it needs to have somebody inside the jobcentre and working with it when people move on to universal credit. Thirdly, we need to know how many of our constituents moving on to UC are getting advances. We know the national figure, but we do not know the figure for our constituencies. Fourthly, we need to know when the citizens advice bureau is alerted to a problem by a constituent. I have an escalation protocol with my CAB, and I recommend that to everyone, because it is very important for us to know about such problems as soon as possible. The next thing we need to know—

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Rosie Winterton)]

Order.

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[Matt Rodda (Reading East) (Lab)]

I have been interested to hear the range of views discussed today. I am from one of the areas where universal credit will be rolled out in early December, much to the concern of local residents. It is difficult to imagine the stress and deep financial distress that many of the people on this benefit will face over Christmas because of the ill-considered timing. From my perspective, this is wholly unacceptable, but I believe it is only one of a number of deep flaws in this ill-thought-through policy.

As we have heard, the six-week payment delay is a severe flaw. It does not take account of the reality that many people, especially those on low incomes, not only budget on a bi-weekly basis, but are in some cases paid once every two weeks. In our area, Reading Borough Council and local charities will do their very best to help those affected, but they have already raised serious concerns about this delay.

I should point out that the country as a whole is experiencing a dramatic rise in rent arrears, as well as increased evictions. We have noticed that in our town, and it is the same in many others in the south-east, as my hon. Friend the Member for Slough (Mr Dhesi) mentioned. That is because of the difficulty that people who receive the benefit experience in budgeting to cover their rent. It is also because landlords appear unwilling to house people on universal credit. I have been warned about that as an MP and previously as a local councillor, and I have heard worrying evidence of it from tenants and community groups.

Evidence also suggests a link between the six-week delay and the pressure on food banks. Food banks in areas of full universal credit roll-out have experienced a 17% average increase in referrals for emergency food—more than double the national average. Delays in receiving benefits and changes in benefits have become two of the three top reasons for referrals to food banks.

Those issues, linked with the delay in payment, have contributed to an increase in loans being taken out to meet basic needs—

[Madam Deputy Speaker]

Order.

Oral Answers to Questions

Rosie Winterton Excerpts

Monday 27th March 2017 Commons Chamber

[Damian Green]

My hon. Friend is right. We are taking action through Access to Work and Disability Confident, which I mentioned in response to my hon. Friend the Member for Faversham and Mid Kent (Helen Whately), but this needs to be part of a much wider programme of education specifically for employers. We have set up a Disability Confident business leaders group because I suspect that employers will listen more to other business people than they necessarily will to politicians.

[Dame Rosie Winterton (Doncaster Central) (Lab)]

Is not the main issue to make sure that people have good access to occupational health services—particularly so that preventive action can be taken if an individual feels that they are suffering from a mental health problem—meaning that they can get to an occupational health service quickly and easily to get proper advice?

Oral Answers to Questions

Rosie Winterton Excerpts

Monday 9th January 2017 Commons Chamber

[Dame Rosie Winterton (Doncaster Central) (Lab)]

Happy new year, Mr Speaker.

Will the Secretary of State ensure that there is much closer co-operation between the single fraud investigation service and local authorities on the prosecution of abuse, including on self-employment status, so that councils can be confident that when they report possible scams, including by employers, they are properly followed up?

[Damian Green]

I am happy to pass on the right hon. Lady’s message to the relevant bodies—councils and the fraud investigation service. Of course, while self-employment is a good thing, fraud involving any kind of employment is wrong, so clearly we must get ever more effective at combatting it.

Job Insecurity

Rosie Winterton Excerpts

Wednesday 5th February 2014 Commons Chamber

[Esther McVey]

Well, I am glad the hon. Gentleman has decided to return to the Chamber. I explained earlier how unemployment has significantly fallen in his constituency, but he was not here to hear that. His words are on the record, and we all heard them. Should he wish to read them back tomorrow, he can do so in Hansard.

My hon. Friend the Member for Ipswich (Ben Gummer) talked with great clarity about the great recession that we were left with, how we have sorted it out and taken significant strides in building up the economy, and what we have done in terms of exports and developing manufacturing, so that now for the first time since the ’70s we export more cars than we import, and we are now exporting more outside Europe than inside Europe. All these things have happened under our stewardship.

My hon. Friend the Member for North Swindon (Justin Tomlinson) talked about how people can set up their own business, and how that is a real engine for social mobility, and how this Government are helping people through the new enterprise allowance. Under us, businesses are setting up at the rate of 2,000 a month. That is what we want—young people setting up in business, older people and women setting up in business. Those are the sorts of policies we are coming forward with.

My hon. Friend the Member for Reading West (Alok Sharma) rightly said that this motion is vague, confused, and just lacking really, rather like Labour’s policies in this entire area. He also said business confidence is up, and not just in his area but right across the country. There are reports that say so: the CBI and PricewaterhouseCoopers have said optimism is up. Do people want to take on people? Yes they do. Do people want to give people jobs? Yes they do. They feel that for the first time.

The whole motion did not really make much sense. It never really looked at what had happened under Labour’s stewardship. It never really looked at how when we talk about the tax credits bill and the benefits bill, we say it might have gone up a little bit; it will have gone up by 5% in five years, yet under Labour it had gone up by 20%. What we are doing is rebalancing the economy, bringing the spend down, and living within our means.

The hon. Member for Bridgend (Mrs Moon) talked about unemployment in her constituency. I am pleased to be able to tell her that unemployment is down 26% on this year and 23% on—

[Ms Rosie Winterton (Doncaster Central) (Lab)]

claimed to move the closure (Standing Order No. 36).

Question put forthwith, That the Question be now put.

Question agreed to.

Main Question put accordingly.

Food Banks

Rosie Winterton Excerpts

Wednesday 18th December 2013 Commons Chamber

[Mr Hurd]

I would like to say that I was shocked by that, but not any more.

[Ms Rosie Winterton (Doncaster Central) (Lab)]

claimed to move the closure (Standing Order No. 36).

Question put forthwith, That the Question be now put.

Question agreed to.

Main Question accordingly put.

Living Standards

Rosie Winterton Excerpts

Wednesday 30th November 2011 Commons Chamber

[Steve Webb]

I am grateful, Mr Speaker.

The hon. Member for Dover (Charlie Elphicke) spoke about how low interest rates benefit growth, which is crucial to the economy. The hon. Member for Broxtowe (Anna Soubry) raised the crucial issue of us having to pay our own way.

In opposition, one must do two things: yes, one must oppose the things that one is against, but one must also propose the things that one is in favour of. The Labour party failed to tell us where the £46 billion of spending cuts identified by the shadow Secretary of State for Work and Pensions would come from. We heard speech after speech from Labour Members who were opposed to every single cut, but I heard no Labour Member say what they would cut. We heard that there should not be cuts for people out of work, or for people in work, that there should not be cuts to the public sector, or to the private sector. Where does all the money come from? Answer came there none.

[Ms Rosie Winterton (Doncaster Central) (Lab)]

claimed to move the closure (Standing Order No. 36).

Question put forthwith, That the Question be now put.

Question agreed to.

Main Question put accordingly.