Oral Answers to Questions

Rosie Cooper Excerpts

Thursday 29th April 2021 Commons Chamber

[Mr Speaker]

Staying in Lancashire, I call Rosie Cooper. Come on, Rosie.

[Rosie Cooper (West Lancashire) (Lab) [V]]

  Many of my constituents are concerned that each of the three rail timetabling options put forward by the Manchester recovery taskforce means reduced connectivity between West Lancs and Manchester. Will the Secretary of State assure my constituents that they are not the poor relations of the larger northern cities, and will he intervene to ensure that the supposed levelling-up of services in the north does not leave areas such as West Lancs behind?

[Grant Shapps]

Yes, that is absolutely right. I have been working with Transport for the North and many others in consultation to sort out that fundamental problem, which is the bottleneck around the Castlefield corridor in and out of Manchester, which impacts on the entire northern rail service and beyond. The hon. Lady is absolutely right; we will be taking all those representations into account, and very carefully. Indeed, the rail Minister, my hon. Friend the Member for Daventry (Chris Heaton-Harris), would gladly meet her to discuss it further.

Oral Answers to Questions

Rosie Cooper Excerpts

Thursday 3rd December 2020 Commons Chamber

The Secretary of State was asked—

[Rosie Cooper (West Lancashire) (Lab)]

Whether he plans to allow publicly owned rail operators to bid for future rail contracts under the proposed concession model.

[The Minister of State, Department for Transport (Chris Heaton-Harris)]

We will outline our plans for the railway in a White Paper when the course of the pandemic becomes clearer.

[Rosie Cooper [V]]

Even prior to this pandemic, disabled people reported that work opportunities were out of reach due to the lack of accessibility on transport. What is the Secretary of State doing to ensure that disabled people are not prevented from accessing and staying in employment because of the really pressing accessibility issues on our rail network?

[Chris Heaton-Harris]

The hon. Lady asks a very sensible question on a very important day, the United Nations-sponsored International Day of Persons with Disabilities. There is some good news, because 75% of all journeys—on what is a Victorian network that we are trying to upgrade—are now through step-free stations, compared with 50% only a few years ago.

Rail Timetabling

Rosie Cooper Excerpts

Monday 4th June 2018 Commons Chamber

[Chris Grayling]

I will ensure that the rail Minister sits down with my hon. Friend and has a conversation with all those involved to make sure that those works are not an issue. As he knows, there has been necessary investment to sort out problems on the Brighton main line, but we cannot have the works causing inappropriate levels of disruption. There will inevitably be some disruption, because engineering works cannot be done without it, but we have to ensure that they are done in the right way.

[Rosie Cooper (West Lancashire) (Lab)]

To describe my constituents as incandescent would be an absolute understatement. Colleagues across the House have described the impact this fiasco has had on families and individuals. I have listened carefully to the Secretary of State and he seems to have been reassured by the information he has received, but he does not seem to have tested that information to assure himself and his Department that the information was correct. If that is so, how can we be sure that he has tested and is assured of his potential solutions?

Rail Update

Rosie Cooper Excerpts

Wednesday 29th November 2017 Commons Chamber

[Chris Grayling]

On the latter point, they can be now—there is nothing to prevent train companies from coming forward with small-scale infrastructure proposals. I would be happy to see the private sector come forward with plans, for example, to introduce digital signalling on routes, but we will not move the infrastructure itself out of public ownership. The accountability comes from the performance measures we put in place for Network Rail and the people who lead it, but I think that devolution to individual routes will mean better services, a more local focus and more out-of-the-box thinking, which Network Rail needs to do if it is to deliver best value for everyone involved.

[Rosie Cooper (West Lancashire) (Lab)]

My constituents will be listening with avid interest, because prior to the general election, the Transport Secretary visited my constituency and said that the reinstatement of the Burscough curves between Burscough, Preston and Ormskirk would be a “quick win” to help improve rail services in the north. When will we get this “quick win”? When will funding for that project, for electrification in the area and for the Skelmersdale railway station be forthcoming? My constituents look forward to him keeping his promise.

[Chris Grayling]

Of course, the people of West Lancashire will be getting the benefit of the investment programme in the line from Manchester to Blackpool. It is a huge investment in improving the services on that route. That, right now, is our priority. After that, I hope we will move forward with other projects that can make a difference to passengers in Lancashire and elsewhere in the north-west.

Harvey’s Law

Rosie Cooper Excerpts

Monday 2nd March 2015 Westminster Hall

[Derek Twigg]

Again, I cannot disagree, but as I will come on to point out, the Highways Agency does actually have a lot of equipment. However, my hon. Friend makes a very good point, and I know that he takes a particular interest in this issue.

[Rosie Cooper (West Lancashire) (Lab)]

If the Government require dog owners to have dogs chipped, responsible dog owners have their dogs chipped. It is surely not beyond the wit of man or the Highways Agency to locate the owners of dogs without there being a great increase in work load or cost. It is ridiculous; are we really saying that this Government is now becoming one which does not care about pets and their loving owners? It is outrageous.

[Derek Twigg]

I know that my hon. Friend feels passionately about this subject. She makes an important point about costs. We really are talking about a very small amount of money, but I shall come back to that later.

Going back to the petition, I want to draw the House’s attention to the response that it received when it reached 10,000 signatures. That response that it got from the Highways Agency was unfortunate, and let me relate to hon. Members what was said subsequently. In a letter to Ms Blackburn, the Highways Agency stated:

“The statement in response to Harvey’s Law e-petition when reaching 10,000 signatures was provided by the Highways Agency. Our response was unclear as it did not accurately reflect the Agency’s changing approach and was taken from the policy of older contracts which are being phased out nationally. I am sorry that the statement in response to the e-petition didn’t clearly explain the changing situation. I am investigating whether this clarification can be issued as an update on the e-petition website.”

That is pretty appalling. E-petitions are part of our democratic process and have been embraced by large portions of the population, who should not have to put up with a situation such as that one, in which incorrect information was given. As has been pointed out to me, the clarification was a bit late in that day. It left a number of unanswered questions, such as how many more signatures the e-petition would have gained if the original response had not been put on the website. That is conjecture, but we just do not know.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Hayes]

I am coming to my exciting peroration, and the hon. Lady will, I hope, be pleased with what I have to say. Although it is not possible to identify all animals or pets that are very badly injured or killed in high-speed accidents, it is absolutely essential that every possible and practical measure is taken to identify them and to contact their owners whenever and wherever possible. That involves working with relevant pet registration organisations, including the Kennel Club, and using any means by which the animal might be identified. As the hon. Member for Halton said, that aligns well with the amendment to the Animal Welfare Act 2006, which will make it compulsory to microchip all dogs from April 2016. As he argued, it would be ironic and contradictory not to rethink the practice highlighted by the campaign that followed Harvey’s death. I have therefore asked the Highways Agency to ensure that it collects and identifies every animal that is killed and to contact the owners by whatever practicable means, but I want to go further than that.

[Rosie Cooper]

I have listened carefully to the Minister, and it could be my hearing aid and my inability to hear clearly, but I thought I heard him say that he would “ask” the Highways Agency to do that work. I think most people want to hear him say that he will require the agency to do it.

[Mr Hayes]

The hon. Lady has known me for a number of years, and we have worked together on a number of campaigns. She knows that when I say “ask”, I mean “order”. I have told the Highways Agency that I expect it to do this work. It will be a requirement; it is what will happen. That is how I operate as a Minister, as she knows. I am surprised she doubted me, given our long-standing friendship. [Interruption.] I agree that it is important to put that on the record.

The shadow Minister was right to ask whether the process will be mandatory. I will tell him exactly what it will be; mandatory requirements for identifying and recording domestic animals will be included in the documents for the tenders for new contracts. That applies to Cornwall and Devon, Kent, Surrey, East Sussex, West Sussex, Leicestershire, Northamptonshire, Derbyshire, Nottinghamshire, Lincolnshire, parts of Warwickshire, Rutland, parts of Oxfordshire, Yorkshire and Humberside, Cumbria and parts of Lancashire, Northumberland, Tyne and Wear, Durham and North Yorkshire. Most of those tenders were issued at the end of February or will be issued in March. Some of the tenders will be issued a little later, as the contracts expire.

I want to go further, however. For those contracts that have already been issued—in Somerset, Avon, Wiltshire, Gloucestershire, Hampshire, Berkshire, Surrey, Dorset, Wiltshire, Essex, Cambridgeshire, Suffolk, Norfolk, Bedfordshire, Hertfordshire, parts of Suffolk, the west midlands, Worcestershire, Shropshire, Staffordshire, parts of Gloucestershire, Cheshire, Greater Manchester, Merseyside and parts of Lancashire—I have asked for urgent investigation to retrofit mandatory requirements on identifying and recording domestic animals found on the strategic road network. We will commence that process immediately this spring and bring it into operation as soon as we can, following the re-discussion of those contracts. I want the identification and recording to be mandatory, and it will be.

Oral Answers to Questions

Rosie Cooper Excerpts

Thursday 27th June 2013 Commons Chamber

[Rosie Cooper (West Lancashire) (Lab)]

8. What assessment he has made of the potential role of the local growth fund in improving transport; and if he will make a statement.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Transport (Norman Baker)]

The single local growth fund will incorporate devolved major transport scheme funding along with other funding streams from across Government. The contribution the fund can make to improving transport will ultimately be determined by local decision takers. The Chief Secretary will make a statement on the matter in 31 minutes.

[Rosie Cooper]

I will try to get in before him. The Burscough curves, the Ormskirk bypass and a railway station for Skelmersdale are much-needed transport projects in West Lancashire that would benefit from local growth fund money. Following the Chancellor’s statement yesterday that local enterprise partnerships are to bid for single growth fund moneys, it is unclear to me who is responsible for making decisions on local transport priorities. Is it LEPs or the local transport authorities? Whose door do I knock on to get that much-needed money?

[Norman Baker]

We have set up local transport bodies and I have recently been engaging with them on their assurance frameworks, so in the immediate future I would suggest that the hon. Lady contacts her local transport body. The LEP responsibility kicks in from 2015.

Cycling Safety

Rosie Cooper Excerpts

Wednesday 21st November 2012 Westminster Hall

[Rosie Cooper (West Lancashire) (Lab)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship today, Mr Havard, on the first of two occasions. I congratulate the hon. Member for Reading West (Alok Sharma) on securing the debate, which comes after some high-profile cycling incidents, and today’s report in The Times.

The hon. Gentleman mentioned Bradley Wiggins being knocked off his bike on 7 November in Wrightington in my constituency. For obvious reasons the case received significant national media coverage and highlighted the dangers for cyclists on the roads. Prior to the incident Bradley Wiggins had often spoken about the need to improve road safety for cyclists. Our roads grow ever busier, and there is an absolute need for all road users, whether cyclists or motorists, to take individual responsibility for being as safe as possible on the roads. That responsibility means not behaving in a way that endangers other road users, but for cyclists it also means taking the appropriate precautions to keep their bikes and themselves safe, including always wearing a helmet. For motorists it would include not speeding, and being cautious when passing cyclists.

Today The Times not only showed the serious dangers that cyclists face, but referred to the fact that this year, which is unparalleled in terms of the success and popularity of cycling, the number of cyclists killed on British roads is sadly on course to reach a five-year high. According to analysis by Transport for London, which was quoted in the article, 56% of cyclists’ deaths are caused by motorists’ “unlawful and anti-social” manner, yet only 6% of collisions are caused by cyclists behaving in the same way. Some people argue that we need to consider how properly to integrate cycling into the modern transport network. I would not, however, encourage anybody to follow the example of West Lancashire borough council, which has invested section 106 money building a cycle path to junction 4 on the M58. We certainly do not need to encourage cyclists towards the motorway network.

It is important to discuss whether making cycling helmets compulsory can improve cyclists’ safety. It does improve it, but the reality is that there are times when a helmet does not offer enough protection from dangerous driving. In such cases, we need to consider how motorists who cause fatal collisions are dealt with through the judicial process. At present, a view is that the inconsistencies in the charging and sentencing of motorists involved in collisions with cyclists is very worrying.

Everybody knows of Bradley Wiggins, but people will not know of Christine Favager, who was another cyclist involved in a collision in my constituency. Tragically, this time it was a fatal accident. Sixty-nine year old Christine was cycling along a rural road, Asmall lane, in Scarisbrick. The accident happened at about 7.40 pm on a July evening in 2011—not on a dark, wintery night. The 19-year-old driver was travelling between 59 and 63 mph as he raced into a bend. He was travelling too fast and too close to another car as he entered that bend, and witnesses saw the car swerve right across two lanes. In over-correcting, the driver was forced across the road to avoid hitting the car in front, which meant that Christine was hit head on. She had been cycling in the opposite direction. Initially, the driver was reported as being arrested under suspicion of causing death by dangerous driving. He subsequently pleaded guilty to causing death by careless driving. A 20-month custodial sentence in a young offenders’ institute and a three-year driving ban were handed down to him. Christine’s family lost a very dear member.

That case highlights one of the complaints from cycling groups, which is that often the lesser charge of death by careless driving is pursued, as opposed to the charge of death by dangerous driving.

[Mr Bradshaw]

My hon. Friend gives an example of someone receiving a custodial sentence. I am sure she is aware that in a great many cases, drivers who kill cyclists and pedestrians do not even get that.

--- Later in debate ---

[Rosie Cooper]

I appreciate my right hon. Friend’s point. The case I described happened in my constituency, which is why I referred to it, but there truly is great outrage out there at the sentences being handed down to motorists who kill in such circumstances.

If we are to improve the safety of cyclists on our roads, there has to be an extensive range of measures that will offer protection and act as a deterrent to erratic and dangerous behaviour on our roads. All road users, whether they are cyclists, pedestrians or motorists, depend on us getting the law right.

West Coast Main Line

Rosie Cooper Excerpts

Monday 15th October 2012 Commons Chamber

[Mr McLoughlin]

I hope that the two inquiries that I have set up will help us through the unfortunate position in which we find ourselves and, in the longer term, lead to a much more robust franchising system.

[Rosie Cooper (West Lancashire) (Lab)]

I appreciate that assurances from the Transport Secretary, and Ministers previously, that the process was rigorous, detailed and fair were given in good faith. However, serious concerns remain that the incident was not isolated.

Bearing in mind some of the comments made about loading and how the contract was done, anyone with common sense knew that something was wrong. Will the Secretary of State categorically confirm that mistakes were not made by the Department when awarding franchises on the other routes, before the west coast main line franchise process? When did that analysis take place?

[Mr McLoughlin]

I am not sure that I am responsible for the franchising that took place under the previous Government, and this franchise was the first that would have taken place under the new system.

West Coast Main Line

Rosie Cooper Excerpts

Monday 17th September 2012 Westminster Hall

[Rosie Cooper (West Lancashire) (Lab)]

I beg to move,

That this House has considered the e-petition from Ross McKillop and others relating to the West Coast Mainline franchise decision.

The motion reflects the concerns of more than 170,000 people who have signed the e-petition and it calls on the Government to reconsider the decision to award the west coast main line franchise to FirstGroup.

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship today, Mr Bone. I understand that this is the first Backbench Business Committee debate to take place in Westminster Hall on a Monday. I wish to thank the Committee for accepting the application for this debate and for granting us time before the conference recess. I congratulate the Minister on his new role at the Department for Transport. I am sure that he would have welcomed a less contentious issue so early in his post.

Due to Committee business, members of the Transport Committee are unable to join us today. My hon. Friend the Member for Liverpool, Riverside (Mrs Ellman) and her Committee colleagues are already interrogating people over this matter.

[Iain Stewart (Milton Keynes South) (Con)]

I am a member of the Transport Committee and I am here.

[Rosie Cooper]

I am glad that the hon. Gentleman is here and is able to contribute to the debate. His colleagues, I believe, are away on business.

The Transport Committee is considering this matter through the work of its Rail 2020 inquiry. Several hon. Members from Lancashire, who are currently attending a meeting with Ministers on employment matters in their constituencies, wish, with your permission, Mr Bone, to speak later in the debate.

More than 170,000 people put their name to an e-petition, which was started by Ross McKillop, calling on the Government to reconsider their decision on the west coast main line franchise. That huge number of signatures, which was collected over a short period of time, reflects strong feelings and shows that the subject deserves to be debated in the House.

On the west coast main line, we are talking about 31 million passenger journeys a year and a £5.5 billion contract that will last for 15 years—that is this Parliament and the two that follow it. Hon. Members from all parts of the House have called on Transport Ministers to give Members an opportunity to scrutinise in more detail the actual process through which the decision was made. In August, my hon. Friend the Member for Garston and Halewood (Maria Eagle) wrote to the then Secretary of State for Transport, asking her to make a statement to the House. This will be the first opportunity for Members from all parts of the House, apart from the Transport Committee, to ask questions of the Minister, to begin to scrutinise the decision and to put their views and those of their constituents directly to the Minister.

A considerable amount of press coverage and opinion seeks to make the issue one of FirstGroup versus Virgin. Personally, I do not care much about the name of the company that provides the service. My priority is to ensure that the final decision, taken by the Department for Transport, is the best deal for taxpayers and fare payers. I hope to get from the Minister today the guarantees and reassurances necessary to be satisfied that the decision-making process is robust, so that the right decision is made with taxpayers’ money.

Given the determined efforts of Transport Ministers to avoid answering questions on this franchise decision, I do not begin this debate from a position of resounding confidence. We are told over and over that the process is rigorous, detailed and fair. It is as if by repeating that mantra we will all believe it. Yet there have been many complaints that the process does not even deliver against its own objectives.

The basis of the judicial review is that the Department for Transport broke its own rules when evaluating the bids, and we need to get to the bottom of that. There are those who argue that the entire franchise bidding process is flawed, and driven solely by the promise of large sums of money no matter what the cost, and irrespective of the stated objectives.

[Mr Dave Watts (St Helens North) (Lab)]

Does my hon. Friend share my concern that the Department for Transport officials, who looked at the Virgin contract when it was let, underestimated the amount of money that would be made by Virgin? Given that there is that lack of credibility, how much credibility does she place on the assessment of the First bid?

[Rosie Cooper]

I was not a Member of this House when that decision was taken, so was not in a position rigorously to examine it. Overall, though, I do not have great confidence in the various projections of the Department.

To continue, let us take, for example, the objective to achieve sustainable value for money. That is a stated objective, yet the process encourages risky bids because companies know that if their bid is £250 million more than any other bid their competitors’ bids do not go forward for further evaluation. I have deep reservations about a system that does not attempt to answer why one bid is so much higher than all the rest, and then does not quantify the difference.

[Daniel Kawczynski (Shrewsbury and Atcham) (Con)]

The hon. Lady intimates that she has concerns about the way in which matters are carried out at the Department for Transport. Like me, she was at a meeting when Virgin Trains, which had been invited to talk to MPs, said very clearly that it had discussed its concerns with Lord Adonis. What did the previous Labour Administration do to allay Virgin’s fears at the time?

[Rosie Cooper]

I did not clearly hear that part of the meeting. Perhaps it happened before I arrived. I was there when the hon. Gentleman said that he called the meeting so that Virgin and FirstGroup could say how they had arrived at their current situation—of one being awarded the contract and the other having started a judicial review. I pointed out that nobody from the Government had bothered to turn up to answer MPs’ questions and that democracy had been short-changed.

I understand that the Government use a computer programme to test the assumptions within the bid, which the Minister will no doubt tell me is a robust approach. My response would be to ask whether this was the same modelling package that was used by the consultants who said that the west coast main line should be carrying an extra £15 million of fares during the period of the Olympics and Paralympics? It was never physically possible to get that volume of passengers within that time frame to deliver £15 million of sales. In the end, the additional revenues amounted to between £1 million and £2 million. Such projections were for a single event over a short period of time and they were way, way off. How much confidence does that instil in us over projections that are supposed to last 15 years?

[Tim Farron (Westmorland and Lonsdale) (LD)]

The hon. Lady points out that it is very easy for all of us to be experts after the fact. Does that not demonstrate that the real problem here is that this decision was taken maybe completely appropriately, but it was announced during the summer recess so that Parliament had no chance to discuss or interrogate this issue? Moreover, perhaps one criterion that ought to be added to the process is what the public and the users of the service think about it.

[Rosie Cooper]

The hon. Gentleman raises several of the points that I am about to discuss in more detail, but I absolutely agree with him.

Surely projections about the contract should score highly on the basis of value for money for the taxpayer and the commuter. There is a belief that passenger growth could continue to be 10% per annum. However, such growth figures were achieved at the top of the economy. Even for a non-economist such as me, it does not take a great leap of faith to think that such growth rates are not sustainable in an economy that is in the doldrums and with fears of a double-dip recession not having gone away.

[David Mowat (Warrington South) (Con)]

The hon. Lady is quite right to say that all these projections for the future are estimates and guesses, that they may be too low or too high and that FirstGroup made very aggressive ones. However, is not the key point of a procurement process to ensure that the risk in respect of those projections is with FirstGroup’s shareholders and not with the passengers? The issue is how we manage that risk and not what the estimates were.

--- Later in debate ---

[Rosie Cooper]

Absolutely, and I will come on to that point later in my remarks, because it is absolutely clear that the risk here, with such a small guaranteed sum, is with the taxpayer.

[Joan Walley (Stoke-on-Trent North) (Lab)]

I congratulate my hon. Friend on securing this debate, because it is important that this matter is debated in Parliament. However, the particular issue that we are considering here needs to relate to the deliverability of the process by which the contract has been offered, and there is no real way that we can assess, all those years into the future, whether the winning bidder can produce what is meant to be there. Therefore it is a matter of great concern that there does not seem to be a proper assessment process about how the bid is actually given out.

[Rosie Cooper]

I agree, and again my hon. Friend raises points that I will return to later in my remarks.

It is absolutely for sure that we are dealing with risk—risk in the assumptions and economic risk. However, the only bidder for the contract that does not seem to have put up a lot of money is the company that has been awarded the contract. Again, I will return to that point later.

Economic assumptions are central to franchise bids. Governments expect rail companies to predict GDP trends over the lifetime of a franchise. As the Government cannot manage to predict GDP over the short term, how can we have confidence that any bids based on long-term projections have credibility? If an economist can tell me that those projections are credible, I suggest that the Government employ that economist as the current lot of economists cannot manage to.

[Mr Watts]

Is not the point that the Department for Transport has a long record of getting everything wrong? It gets it wrong on roads, on airports and on rail. The only thing that it seems will protect the Minister is that some penalties will be imposed if the contract is not delivered in the way that his officials propose. Should not we be transparent and absolutely clear about how this contract was let, know how any penalties are going to work and be quite clear that there will be no payment by the taxpayer if things go wrong?

[Rosie Cooper]

I absolutely agree with those comments, and those points are central to why I asked the Backbench Business Committee to allow a debate on this subject today. It is clear that there should be an open and transparent process. Perhaps we should be at the point now of comparing bids.

Let me return to my train of thought. There are other anomalies. For instance, the Virgin bid offers £133 million more in the period of the franchise up to March 2020. After that point, FirstGroup says that it will pay £1.23 billion more between March 2020 and March 2026. It does so based on a forecast of huge growth in passenger numbers, which comes at a time when there is no planned investment and when there will be huge disruption from the High Speed 2 rail project. So I ask again: how is sustainability at the heart of this decision?

Besides the computer modelling, there is also the anonymised scoring system, which I hope would prioritise sustainable value for money over high-value promises.

[Mr William Cash (Stone) (Con)]

We know that the Transport Committee is looking at this issue. Has the hon. Lady asked whether the Public Accounts Committee should look at it? As we are dealing with public money and value for money, is not what she is referring to today an ideal issue for the PAC to consider? Perhaps later, after the debate, she could address that question to the right hon. Member for Barking (Margaret Hodge), who is the Chairman of the PAC.

[Rosie Cooper]

I will indeed do that. I had not considered the idea of asking the PAC to look at this issue, but I undertake now to ensure that I send a letter to that effect to the Chairman of the PAC before I leave Parliament today.

[Joan Walley]

When my hon. Friend does so, will she ensure that she asks for the recommendations of an earlier PAC report on procurement to be considered within the context that has just been described by the hon. Member for Stone (Mr Cash)?

[Rosie Cooper]

Indeed I will, and I will seek further advice from my right hon. Friend on that point as well.

There is considerable difference in value when one bidder offers £800 million worth of investment and the other bidder offers £350 million. Unbelievably, there are reports that FirstGroup scored higher in the bidding process on customer service than Virgin did. Can the Minister tell me how the scoring system squares that with the results from various customer satisfaction surveys of FirstGroup’s current users—in other words, FirstGroup’s passengers—that show that those users rated the Great Western service as the second worst service around? It is not unfair or illogical to assume that, if a company offers a certain service on one line, it may offer something similar on another line. So can he explain how an anonymised scoring system is better informed than the passengers who actually use the railway system and FirstGroup in particular?

Sustainability is one of the watchwords in every aspect of public expenditure. Ensuring that the bids that are submitted can be sustained over the life of a franchise is essential. One of the reasons why hon. Members asked for the debate is that recent franchise experiences have shown that the highest bids—the riskiest bids—are not necessarily sustainable bids. The Government have even admitted that the successful bid for the west coast main line is indeed the riskier bid.

I was intrigued to hear that, during the tendering process, the Department for Transport informed one bidder that it did not view a 5% margin as sustainable. In the light of that information, that bidder reworked its bid and achieved a 7% margin. That leaves me perplexed, when I read that the successful bid is based on a 5% margin. If that is true—I assume that it is—given the lack of information and transparency, a whole series of questions are raised. Does the DFT believe that a 5% margin is sustainable? Did DFT officials give each of the bidders the same information? If they did offer the same view on sustainability to each bidder, why was a bid accepted with a figure that they believed to be unsustainable? That is an important question because it relates to risk and, in turn, how that relates to the guarantees being sought by the Government.

There is considerable contention about the guarantee that the successful bidder was asked to put against the bid. In the first case, my understanding of the guarantee is that it is based on the assessment of risk using a set formula. It is argued that if the Department had applied that formula uniformly, FirstGroup would expect, reasonably, to have been asked to put up a guarantee of around £600 million, not just the £215 million asked of it initially, which was finally reduced to £200 million. Secondly, did any negotiation take place with FirstGroup on the level of guarantee? If so, what were the circumstances? How did we reach the very small guarantee figure of £200 million, if the Department had been applying the same formula across all bids? If there was no provision within the invitation to tender for the guarantee to be negotiated, how does the Minister explain the variation in the figures from potentially £600 million down to £215 million, and finally to £200 million? Those figures are relevant to mitigating taxpayer risk.

We must not forget that in recent years a number of train operators have handed the keys back to the Government on franchises such as the east coast main line. I believe that Members want to be assured that that will not happen again and that taxpayers have an assurance that they will not be held to ransom by Dick Turpin train operators asking them to stand and deliver, having secured the contract on a bogus premise, taking their profits and scarpering when it is time to deliver the promised high return.

[Daniel Kawczynski]

I hope that the hon. Lady is not referring to any train operators as Dick Turpin-type figures.

[Rosie Cooper]

Oh, I think there are a lot of Dick Turpin-type figures about.

I would very much like to hear from the Minister on this precise point: has the Department applied its own rules or not? Given the whole handling of the process, a judicial review has been applied for, which has left us in a position where re-nationalising the line is being considered. The new Secretary of State for Transport has stated that he would seek to re-nationalise the west coast main line if there is a failure to reach an agreement before 9 December.

[David Mowat]

The hon. Lady suggests that an operator might walk away from a franchise having made the money in the early years of the contract. Is it not key for the Government to make it clear at this point that if the operator did that—giving the keys back, as she said—it would do no further work with the Government in any other contract? Therefore, for all intents and purposes, they would be barred from any further procurement processes in the future. If the Government made that clear, they would be acting in a much more private sector-type mentality, in a way that Governments often do not do. Does she agree?

[Rosie Cooper]

I would agree that, initially, we need a proper figure to mitigate taxpayer risk, to ensure that taxpayer costs are covered in the eventuality. However, if we have any more shenanigans, those operators should be barred from Government contracts.

[Mr Watts]

One of the problems that we see daily is that companies can go out of business and then start again under a new name. If First did that, could it not overcome that problem by reorganising itself, developing a new company and then bidding for future contracts? I do not see how we could legally stop it from doing so.

[Rosie Cooper]

I think that is a real option. I understand from the grapevine that First does not intend to brand the west coast main line “FirstGroup”, but that there is a great possibility that it will be called Horizon. We might be in that kind of territory; I am not sure.

If there is a failure to reach an agreement before 9 December, it would mean instituting a directly operated railway service on the west coast, matching the current system on the east coast. The Government’s own guidance says that 120 days are required to get that kind of operation in place, and here we are 90 days away from the end of the current west coast franchise. Will the Minister enlighten us on how that will be achieved to ensure the smooth transfer of services to the DOR, if necessary? There is much to consider and address: safety matters; employment and contracting issues; even the simple thing of setting up a website to sell tickets. What would be the associated costs of the DOR in the initial set-up and the monthly costs thereafter? Those costs would be incurred by the taxpayer because of the Government’s failure to handle the situation adequately.

We must consider the staff. Come 9 December, they will have no idea for whom they will be working—FirstGroup, the DOR, or perhaps even Virgin. As part of any transfer of a franchise, there is a responsibility for the incumbent to work with the new operator.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Transport (Stephen Hammond)]

The hon. Lady has been speculating quite a lot about the steps that the Secretary of State may or may not take as a result of a comment that he made yesterday. Let us be clear: he has a statutory duty under section 30 of the Railways Act 1993 to provide or secure the provision of services. As he made clear, that would be a temporary measure should the franchising arrangements not come into place.

[Rosie Cooper]

Is the Minister saying that any offer from Virgin to run the service at no cost and the best-value operation will affect his decision? I will ask him some questions about the associated costs should we set up a DOR.

I understand that two mobilisation processes are running side by side. Will the Minister tell us how that is working in practice? What are the associated risks and costs that arise from the lack of clarity? What assurances can he offer staff that their positions will be secure and the situation resolved?

The Minister has partially intimated the answer to the question that I am going to ask. If a DOR is to run the service, will it have the contract for a defined period, or will another mobilisation process be undertaken where an operator is awarded the contract? What will be the cost of that process?

One of the reasons for securing this debate is the manner in which the Department has handled the entire process, from the timing of the announcement to the consistent reluctance to answer hon. Members’ questions. We keep being told that this Government are open and transparent, and I want to believe that. We are told by the Department that it is confident in its decision on the west coast franchise. If I accept that both those statements are true, why have Transport Ministers not had the courage of their convictions and been willing to come to the House to make a statement to allow scrutiny of the process and the decision? There is a claim that one of the bidders had submitted questions to the Department seeking clarification on certain matters, but it has yet to receive a response. We are basically being told by the Department, “Trust us. Trust what we are telling you.”

[Daniel Kawczynski]

Before the announcement was made before the recess, I asked the Prime Minister a question about the process at Prime Minister’s Question Time. I do not recall hearing any questions from shadow Ministers or Labour Members challenging the process or the timing of when the decision would be made. Is that not the Labour party jumping on the bandwagon after concerns were generated in the media?

[Rosie Cooper]

Protecting taxpayers’ interests is a great bandwagon to jump on. We will protect their interests. The Department says, “Trust us. Trust us. Trust us,” and the hon. Gentleman is inferring that we should trust it. In the week that we had the Hillsborough revelations, “Trust us” is a very hollow call; I am not simply being cynical.

If the Government believe the decision is right, they should open the books and allow the bids to be compared. They should be open and transparent. To be honest, within the context of the east coast main line and the Great Western line, sadly I do not think we can put our faith in the Department.

During my comments, I have raised questions on the risk assessment, the funnelling of bids, the application of the rules and the soundness of growth projections. I ask the Department to try putting its faith in the democratic process and the parliamentary system so that, through debate, questioning and scrutiny, we can be assured that we have arrived at the best outcome for all parties.

Those who fail to learn the lessons of history are doomed to repeat them. The Government will not be forgiven if they allow history to repeat itself with any company taking profits from running our railways and then walking away from the contract without paying a huge penalty to cover taxpayers’ costs and, as the hon. Member for Warrington South (David Mowat) said, being barred from future Government contracts. Unless the Government can evidentially support their case, I, as one of the 170,000 people who signed the e-petition, call for them to reconsider their position.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Jones]

I thank the shadow Minister for that comment, because it illustrates the crux of the issue. There is a lot of second-guessing and a lot of assumptions are being made. The people making those assumptions do not necessarily know the full facts. As I will come on to later in my comments, it is dangerous in any such tendering process for an MP or a Government to move the goal posts once the process has begun.

[Rosie Cooper]

rose—

[Mr Jones]

I will not give way at the moment, because other Members want to get in, but I will give the hon. Lady an opportunity in a few minutes.

There are a few questions about why Virgin or any other party did not raise such a high profile campaign at the outset. Why did we receive letters and ice lollies—I am not sure whether they were connected to this or were part of the Olympics—from Virgin Group on the train platform only once the bid was lost and Virgin had come in second? Why are Labour Members only now coming up with these concerns? They are not even giving their position on the matter. To me, it is a little like someone going to a restaurant and ordering liver, knowing that they do not like liver, and sending it back once it comes to the table and is put down in front of them. In the same way, we need to be careful what we wish for here.

For the Government’s part, it is important that once they have set a franchising process, it should be the benchmark against which the bids are judged. As I said in response to the intervention from the hon. Member for Garston and Halewood (Maria Eagle), it sets a dangerous precedent if, after the bids have come in and a tender has been let, we try to shift the goal posts to get the outcome that we were looking for. Not only would that completely undermine the tendering process, but there are obviously potential legal ramifications.

The critical question is whether the process was followed properly. If Department for Transport officials have not properly applied their own criteria to the bids, then yes, we have to acknowledge the concerns of Virgin Trains, and yes, the Government have to address any subsequent issues that might arise. At this point, that decision is a matter for the courts. It is dangerous as an MP to call for the franchise to be re-let on the basis of a petition, rather than an independent judgment to ensure that the correct procedure and process has been followed.

We should wait to see what the judicial review says, and if it is accepted by the court, the Government should deal with it appropriately at that point. If not, I will fully support the Government in signing the contract, on the basis of retaining the integrity of the tendering processes that they follow. For my constituents, the winning bidder at this point, FirstGroup, notwithstanding the legal case, is on the face of it offering the taxpayer a better deal and far better services to Nuneaton, which is what my constituents are looking for.

--- Later in debate ---

[Stephen Hammond]

My understanding of the GDP process currently in place is that there would be either payments back to the Government or payments from the Government. I will write to the hon. Gentleman about that.

I make it clear that GDP was only one of the external factors; it was not the only external factor. To ensure that the Government are further protected, a profit share mechanism has also been introduced. The mechanism will enable the taxpayer to benefit from a share in any super profits that the franchise generates while continuing to provide an incentive for the franchisee to outperform.

The hon. Member for West Lancashire asked a number of questions about the Government’s preparations, should the franchise end without a new franchisee being in place. I make it clear that the existing contractor has a contractual obligation to support handover activities. On the 120 days to which she referred, a departmental mobilisation manual is being used by both parties in every franchise to ensure that a franchise handover process is in place, and the activities and time scales required to effect a transfer are set out. The Government are confident that the Department is putting in place the right contingencies in the time scale, should the process not be completed. We expect the legal issues to be resolved so that contingency plans will not be necessary.

[Rosie Cooper]

We have very little time, and I implore the Minister to answer my questions on the detail of the guarantee and on the contract negotiations. I also implore him to answer the question asked by my hon. Friend the Member for Halton (Derek Twigg). They are important and pertinent questions that go to the heart of protecting taxpayers’ money, and, sadly, the Minister has not answered any of them. I know we have gone round the houses, but the Minister has not answered the questions at the heart of the debate.

[Stephen Hammond]

I am sure the hon. Lady has listened to my contribution, and I am sure she has taken notes, but I have made it clear that, where I am able to answer questions because of the ongoing judicial process, I have answered them. Equally, I have given a guarantee that after the judicial process, where the Department is able to answer those questions, we will provide a written answer. As I am sure she knows, I cannot make a statement that would prejudice the judicial process.

--- Later in debate ---

[Rosie Cooper]

Very quickly, I thank you for your stewardship of the second part of the debate, Mr Davies.

I hoped to be able to respond more extensively, but in the half a minute that is left to me, I sum up by telling the Minister that I believe a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush. For the record, I do not believe in the tooth fairy, either.

Question put and agreed to.

Resolved,

That this House has considered the e-petition from Ross McKillop and others relating to the West Coast Mainline franchise decision.

Rail Infrastructure (Merseyside)

Rosie Cooper Excerpts

Tuesday 12th June 2012 Westminster Hall

[Alison McGovern]

I thank my hon. Friend for his intervention. He is quite right. If we consider the body of evidence produced by, for example, the Thameslink and Crossrail projects in London, we find exactly what he suggests. Transport infrastructure underpins economic development, but it also gives access to employment, and to the personal dignity involved, to those who currently do not have it. With that point in mind—

[Rosie Cooper (West Lancashire) (Lab)]

Will my hon. Friend give way?

[Alison McGovern]

I will give way once more, before I make some progress.

[Rosie Cooper]

I thank my hon. Friend for giving way so early in her speech. Does she agree that for places such as Skelmersdale, the most populous town in my constituency, not to have a rail service in the 21st century places the town and its residents at a massive disadvantage and reflects the desperate need for investment in local rail services? To amplify the comments made so far, communities such as Skelmersdale must have rail services, which will deliver significant regeneration benefits socially, economically and culturally—

[John Robertson (in the Chair)]

Order. Thanks for the speech.

[Alison McGovern]

Thank you, Mr Robertson. I promise not to test your patience any more by taking further interventions. My hon. Friend and I have mentioned Skelmersdale in this Chamber before. She will correct me if I am not right, but I believe that the reduction in rail service happened just before Skelmersdale became a new town. How ironic that such a residential centre should not have a rail link. That must be addressed as well.

[Rosie Cooper]

Absolutely. There will now be significant investment in the new town centre in Skelmersdale. It would be a travesty if that development were to go ahead without some land being reserved for a prospective rail station.

[Alison McGovern]

I thank my hon. Friend for that intervention.

With all those points in mind, the test that I would set the Government for their priorities is this. First, whatever those priorities are, will they help rebalance the UK economy? Secondly, will those priorities address existing pockets of poverty in the UK? I would be grateful if the Minister addressed those points of principle.

I remind everybody that Merseyside has an important place in rail history. In 1829, Stephenson’s Rocket set a speed record at Rainhill in Merseyside. One year later, the Liverpool and Manchester railway opened as the world’s first steam passenger service. However, wonderful though that history is, it is not enough. We need a fantastic economic future as well. Luckily, that seems to be happening for Merseyside. We have a brilliant, burgeoning visitor economy.

During the recent “Sea Odyssey”, I am told, hotels in the city were at 99% occupancy, against the backdrop of a large increase in the number of hotels. We have a successful visitor economy on our hands. Our port is also growing, and more development is possible through the Wirral Waters schemes and others. What infrastructure does Merseyside require to ensure that economic growth is achieved, and that growth, when it comes, significantly benefits the least well off?

Turning to the specifics, Merseyside’s rail network is very busy already, and it is well used. Especially through the east side of my constituency, services are busy and getting busier by the day. However, a key problem is the existence of what I call railway black holes. That was not always the case. Many parts of Merseyside and the surrounding area suffer from poor connectivity because their railway station was closed or their service reduced many years ago, when it was not clear that railways would be as popular and necessary as they now clearly are. There are public transport gaps across Merseyside. As a result, perhaps unsurprisingly, some of the most disadvantaged communities in our region are in those blackspots. We have already mentioned Skelmersdale and the surrounding area, just across the border in Lancashire. Parts of north Liverpool also suffer. They are important population centres. Parts of the Wirral, such as the Woodchurch estate, which need a railway station within a short distance so that people can get to work do not have that connectivity.

There are some important issues for the Government to consider. The Minister might mention the northern hub. It is important to finish the northern hub in order to get the full benefit. Only through quick links—four trains an hour between Liverpool and Manchester—will we open up the commuting area. We also need to look at the Halton curve, which could provide two routes into Liverpool and help with managing the west coast main line.

Parts of my constituency of Wirral South are very well connected to employment centres in Liverpool and Chester, and onwards to Warrington and Manchester, but other parts are less fortunate. They are served by a railway running from Bidston, on the Wirral, through Heswall, Neston and Deeside to Wrexham in north Wales. I stand to be corrected, but I believe the route has received little or no significant investment for years. The unreliable and infrequent service means that those of my constituents in Heswall who have the choice tend to opt for their cars rather than the train. Members representing constituencies in north Wales tell me that it is also common in Flintshire and Deeside for people to opt automatically for their car rather than the train. Those without access to private transport are then left with either rail services that are not as good as in other places, or slow buses. Electrifying the line, which is fewer than 30 miles in length, would tie it in and provide through services to Liverpool and more frequent trains.

I know that these are difficult times and I understand that even if we were to start planning for further electrification, it would be a long process to find funding over a number of years. During the economic instability of the 1980s, however, the then Government electrified parts of the Merseyside rail network, namely the line through Rock Ferry, on the other side of my constituency. That has underpinned today’s economic development, so investing in rail, even at times like these, really works. Unfortunately, some parts were left out and those areas form today’s gaps, but if it was possible to invest in our rail network in the 1980s, I am sure that it should be possible to do so again today. There are long-term benefits to electrification.

I would like to add, as a slight caveat, that we need rolling stock as well as infrastructure. There will be a cascade of new rolling stock as the Thameslink programme comes online. Will the Minister comment on how that is proceeding? It would be helpful if the rolling stock could make more trains available.

In my test for the Government’s priorities, how will my proposal for extra electrification help? First, it must be recognised that the railway line happens to link the potential of Wirral Waters, in north Wirral, with industry in Deeside, where we hope to see much growth. It runs between those two flagship zones for economic development. North Wales and Liverpool have a historic connection: many people from one area visit the other on holiday, and vice versa, and more people from Merseyside now want to visit the beautiful surroundings of north Wales. We want a direct rail link between the two to serve those people well.

Secondly, on poverty reduction, we know that we have to tackle worklessness by reducing travel-to-work barriers. This is not a “get-on-your-bike” mentality; people are already trying to make journeys between centres of population and centres of employment. We have to plan for how we can support them to do that in a way that will give businesses the confidence to invest because they know that there are skilled people available to hire. This is about addressing historic imbalances in rail investment and seeing whether we can do some infilling of pockets with a relatively modest investment that could have a long-term impact on economic development.

In conclusion, I hope that the Minister will plot a journey for us on how we can make progress with this project, which has been an aspiration for many years. My predecessor worked on it and other Members present have spent a great deal of time promoting it. On economic development and the difficulties that we face, especially in an area where a large number of people are employed in businesses that export to the eurozone, we need to continue to support the underlying infrastructure investment that will keep our industry strong.

More than simply arguing for the investment from which my own constituents could benefit—I do not apologise for doing so, although it is not enough to do just that—I hope that I have made a case for the potential in Merseyside and its surrounding areas in north Wales, Cheshire and Lancashire. Our region has much to offer a rebalanced UK economy. I hope that the Government will seize tomorrow’s opportunities and, by doing so, set in progress some of the answers to today’s economic strife.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mrs Villiers]

We fully agree that improving our rail network can help us to achieve our aspiration to rebalance the economy and close the prosperity gap between north and south. That is why we are investing in a major programme of rail improvements, a number of which will benefit Liverpool—I am about to come on to those—including the announcements we have already made about the northern hub.

It is very important that we consider how to get the maximum benefits from rail investment to help to provide the jobs and prosperity that I think everyone in this Chamber wants. I acknowledge that rail has been key to Liverpool’s success as a port. In recent years, there have been a number of measures to improve rail freight connectivity. Under the previous Government, the Olive Mount chord was reopened to facilitate better freight train access to the port. The upgrade of the west coast main line has cut journey times between London and Liverpool, and a total of 106 new Pendolino carriages will be in use on the line by December, amounting to a 20% uplift in capacity, which obviously benefits many people in Merseyside travelling between Liverpool and London.

A competition for the next west coast franchise is under way. We are emphasising the importance of raising passenger satisfaction and service quality and improving punctuality. However, I fully agree that it is not only north-south connections we need to focus on. It is vital that we improve connectivity between our great cities of the north of England, because that is another way we will achieve the goals, rightly set out by the hon. Member for Wirral South, of rebalancing the economy and boosting the economy of the north of England.

In our spending review, we confirmed the control period 4 programme of rail improvements, including line speed improvements between Liverpool, Manchester and Leeds. Electrification in the north-west, which was another programme we inherited from the previous Government, was also given the go-ahead. That includes electrification of the line to Wigan via St Helens, which will benefit commuter services in Merseyside. The Ordsall chord recently got the go-ahead, which is a key part of the northern hub scheme.

[Rosie Cooper]

Will the Minister give way?

[Mrs Villiers]

I am sorry, but I need to conclude now.

Although located in Manchester, that scheme will benefit Liverpool because it will deliver those faster journey times between Liverpool and Manchester that the hon. Member for Wirral South rightly identified as very important. The combination of that with the electrification of the north trans-Pennine line to York means that we will see improvements to journey times between Liverpool and Leeds. When those very important improvements are complete, journey times will decrease from around 109 minutes to 77 minutes.

In the meantime, TransPennine Express is consulting on a new timetable that could result in an additional service between Liverpool and Newcastle. We welcome that because it could increase capacity on the route and deliver some journey time savings early, in advance of those infrastructure upgrades that are also going ahead. As I have many times before, I assure hon. Members that we are considering all the remaining schemes in the northern hub, including increasing the capacity of the Chat Moss route. That is very relevant to Merseyside. We will assess what is affordable and what can be included in the high-level output specification that we will publish over the summer.

I will end by referring to some of the real successes we have seen on the Merseyrail Electrics network, which was devolved to Merseytravel and supported by a grant of around £70 million a year from the Government. Passenger satisfaction ratings have risen significantly to 93% in autumn 2011 and high levels of reliability have been achieved. All the trains have been refurbished and automatic ticket barriers have been introduced in many stations. All of Liverpool’s five underground stations are to receive a £40 million overhaul in the next few years, and £20 million is being spent on refurbishing Liverpool Central station, which forms a key hub of the Merseyrail network. Merseytravel is putting together plans to replace every train on the Merseyrail network. That is an ambitious programme and my Department is happy to provide advice on developing the case for replacement rolling stock.

That programme provides an illustration of what the devolution of transport decision making can achieve. We have consulted on our proposals to devolve the local major scheme to local transport bodies. Local authorities might like to consider the scheme I mentioned in relation to their aspirations to improve local rail services. We are also discussing a city deal with the Liverpool city region, which has identified improving connectivity as essential to its future economic growth.

Last but certainly not least, our HS2 plans will see classic compatible high-speed trains running off the new network on to the west coast line to serve Liverpool directly. That will provide improved connectivity to London and faster journey times and will further assist in achieving the goals, which I am sure the hon. Member for Wirral South and I share, of regenerating the economy around Merseyside, promoting growth in the north of England and rebalancing our economy. A high-quality rail network is one of the means we can use to achieve those objectives.

Question put and agreed to.