Harvey’s Law

Derek Twigg Excerpts

Monday 2nd March 2015 Westminster Hall

[Derek Twigg (Halton) (Lab)]

I beg to move,

That this House has considered the e-petition relating to Harvey’s law.

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Rosindell. I am grateful to the Backbench Business Committee for finding time for this important debate. It is good to see that its Chair is here and will take part in the debate.

A lot of people around the country will be following this important debate. We are a country of dog lovers and animal lovers, so a lot of people are interested in it. I am grateful to my constituent, Mrs Pauline Krause, and her fellow campaigners—in particular, Nina Blackburn, who has been leading the campaign—for their help and guidance, which has enabled me to raise this issue in Parliament. They have shown great energy and enthusiasm in setting up the petition and travelling around the country lobbying various MPs, some of whom are here today. It is a great example of democracy in action and how it can work—a constituent goes to see their MP and raises the issue, other members of the public raise it with their MPs and we end up with a debate here. Hopefully, the Minister will go one further and complete the democratic process by agreeing to what is being asked for today. We will hear from him later.

I do not own a pet and have never owned one, but I know from family members, friends and colleagues about the love and care that so many owners have for their pets. As I said, we are a country of animal lovers. Pets can become important parts of families, and deep attachments are commonplace. The loss of a much-loved pet is traumatic for all concerned, and for many families it can lead to a lot of grieving. The fact that more than 100,000 people have signed the e-petition shows the extent of the concern about this issue, and many people are interested in the outcome of the debate. Many families have pet dogs, cats and other animals. The campaigners tell me that about 24% of households in England own a dog, which is a remarkable figure. I imagine that the figure is similar for cats, although I do not know it off the top of my head.

The first I heard about Harvey’s law was when my constituent, Mrs Pauline Krause, came to my surgery in July 2014. Who would have guessed then that I would end up leading a debate on the issue? Pauline explained Harvey’s story. We are here today because of what happened to Harvey, so I will relate that story and give one or two other examples.

Harvey was a beloved pet of Jude Devine and Shaun Robertson, who are from Sheffield but were visiting friends in Rainhill, which, by coincidence, is next door to my constituency. Harvey bolted through an open door on 23 November 2013 at about 10 pm. He was killed on the M62, which was just 21 minutes away. Harvey was chipped and was wearing an identification badge. His owners contacted all the relevant bodies, including the Highways Agency, on an almost daily basis, and they were always told that no dogs had been collected from the road. Harvey’s owners, along with many others, searched for him for nearly 13 weeks, believing that he was still alive. They spent thousands of pounds during the search on flyers, banners, newspaper adverts and articles, in the hope that he would be found.

[Natascha Engel (North East Derbyshire) (Lab)]

On that point, people spend a lot of time phoning up the Highways Agency, the local authority and local vets, and it costs those agencies money to deal with the phone calls. This debate is about not only grieving pet owners but public money, and the measures that we want to be introduced will save money for the public purse.

[Derek Twigg]

As usual, my hon. Friend makes an important point. There is a cost to the owners of the pets, but the cost to the public purse can be also be substantial, because it takes time to contact the individuals and chase them up. That is not a good use of public time. If the law we are debating today were introduced, the situation would be much better.

Harvey’s case was tragic, and I want to give a few more examples, because the tragedy can be unbelievable for some families.

[Ian Austin (Dudley North) (Lab)]

My hon. Friend rightly paid tribute to his constituent, who raised this issue with him. Will he commend the efforts of my constituent, Teresa Hughes, who has worked hard on this campaign and brought it not only to my attention but to the attention of many other people? She has raised the issue in the local media and ensured that it has had a much higher profile in Dudley, the black country and the west midlands.

[Derek Twigg]

I absolutely will. It has been a team effort, and many of the people concerned are here today listening to the debate. Their energy and drive brought us to where we are today. My hon. Friend makes a very important point.

[John Hemming (Birmingham, Yardley) (LD)]

I join the hon. Gentleman in congratulating all the campaigners who raised this issue, which is very important to pet lovers. For most of my life, I have had a pet. Sadly, two of them got run over close to our house, and we found them not very well or dead. However, it would have been much worse if we had not known what had happened. Does the hon. Gentleman agree that it would not be difficult for the highways authorities in local government or the Highways Agency to do what we are asking? It is regrettable that the Highways Agency’s procedures are being changed.

[Derek Twigg]

I agree. I am sorry for the hon. Gentleman’s loss of two pets, which is difficult for any family. His point is well made, and it is why we are here today. We want the procedures of the Highways Agency to be changed back, and we want some legislation to ensure that they will not change again. I will come to that point later.

I will give two more examples, which will put into perspective the tragedy that people face. The first is Shiver’s story. Shiver bolted away from his owner during a thunderstorm and was killed on the M60. Shiver was chipped and was wearing an identification tag. His owners contacted the Highways Agency daily for information, but they were constantly told that no dogs had been retrieved from the highways. They continued to search for him for 19 days. They persisted, and a temporary staff member of the Highways Agency confirmed that Shiver was in cold storage. His owners were given two hours to collect his body before he was cremated. They rushed to the depot and were made to go through two freezers full of dead dogs to retrieve Shiver’s body. Shiver was in a plastic bag with an identification tag still attached. He also had a cannula in his leg, indicating that he had been with a vet.

The second example is Jester’s story. Jester went missing while out on a walk with his owner in 2005, and he was killed on the A1. As no procedure was in place, no one scanned Jester for a chip or took details from the tag he was wearing. No one alerted other authorities or logged the incident, so Jester’s owner was not notified of his fate. Jester’s body was removed and sent straight to a rendering plant. His flesh was stripped to make fuel for energy plants and his bones were crushed to make garden compound. His owner’s desperation for closure was so powerful that she collected blood from the A1 and sent it and a toy belonging to Jester to California for a DNA test. The test confirmed that it was indeed Jester who had been killed on the road that day. Distraught by the way Jester had been treated, Nikki campaigned tirelessly until the Highways Agency agreed to introduce area management memo 67/05, to which I will return. That procedure is set out in chapter 7.17 of the Highways Agency’s network management manual. As I said, those are terrible stories.

[Caroline Nokes (Romsey and Southampton North) (Con)]

That story perfectly demonstrates that this problem is not about stray dogs, but about loved pets who are cared for by responsible owners who have done the right thing by having them chipped and tagged. Does the hon. Gentleman agree that it is essential that we show the same compassion and commitment to those owners as they showed to their pets?

[Derek Twigg]

The hon. Lady makes a powerful point, and I think everybody would agree with it.

Let me return to Harvey’s case. By chance, an employee of the contractor used by the Highways Agency saw one of the fliers that had been distributed about Harvey. She contacted the owners via a message on Facebook and said that she had collected Harvey’s body on the M62. It was only by chance that the owners were given that information.

In 2010, the Highways Agency took the decision to withdraw the routine scanning of domestic pets from highways so that their owner could be identified and notified. Area management memo 67/05, which is being phased out—this is what we have been talking about—states that highways contractors are supposed to scan a domestic pet for a chip, check for other details and contact the owner if possible. They should complete a log with all the details and notify the relevant authorities. The animal should also be kept in cold storage for a period of seven days or until the freezer is emptied, whichever comes first.

There is an odd situation, therefore, in that the Highways Agency is changing that practice, whereas the Government—rightly so—are implementing a policy of compulsory microchipping for dogs from April 2016. One Department is rightly ensuring that there is a legal requirement to have a dog microchipped, whereas the Department for Transport is taking a different view that does not really sit with that policy. It is quite bizarre.

As we have heard in various interventions and seen in the information that we have all received, the death of a pet is traumatic and deeply upsetting for an owner in any case, but when an owner does not know its fate—when the pet has gone missing—the situation is made much worse by not knowing whether their pet is alive or dead. They spend time looking, which, as we have heard from case studies today, can turn out to be wasted. That is obviously very costly, and it also makes the situation all the more unbearable for the families and owners concerned.

Hundreds of pets—probably thousands—are killed on our roads each year. Apparently, the figure is more than 300 for Highways Agency-managed roads, although I think that is an underestimate. As a result of my discussion with Pauline Krause, I wrote to the Minister to raise concerns about the Highways Agency’s stance on notifying owners about the change in policy. The Minister wrote back, saying:

“The Agency is currently phasing out contracts which include the Area Management Memo 67/05 to which your constituent Ms Krause refers. More recent contracts no longer mandate Agency contractors to scan or record pet identification details, or to contact the owners and the pet identification organisations. I know this current position will be hugely disappointing for all those involved with Harvey’s Law e-petition.

Increased investment in the Strategic Road Network brings the opportunity to focus more on the service we deliver for our customers. This could include a review of our current policy around this issue so potentially there may be an opportunity to change contractual arrangements in the future.”

I will come back to this point, but I hope that the Minister will change those arrangements now. When he talks about “delivering for our customers”, I think pet owners can be put in that category.

[Andrew Gwynne (Denton and Reddish) (Lab)]

My hon. Friend is making a very powerful case. Does he not agree that it seems contradictory for the Government to be mandating that pets should be microchipped—something that I very much support—but also instructing the Highways Agency that it is no longer a requirement for its contractors to notify the responsible authorities? If the Highways Agency does not have the scanners needed, it is easy to contact the local authority’s local dog warden service, which almost certainly will.

[Derek Twigg]

Again, I cannot disagree, but as I will come on to point out, the Highways Agency does actually have a lot of equipment. However, my hon. Friend makes a very good point, and I know that he takes a particular interest in this issue.

[Rosie Cooper (West Lancashire) (Lab)]

If the Government require dog owners to have dogs chipped, responsible dog owners have their dogs chipped. It is surely not beyond the wit of man or the Highways Agency to locate the owners of dogs without there being a great increase in work load or cost. It is ridiculous; are we really saying that this Government is now becoming one which does not care about pets and their loving owners? It is outrageous.

[Derek Twigg]

I know that my hon. Friend feels passionately about this subject. She makes an important point about costs. We really are talking about a very small amount of money, but I shall come back to that later.

Going back to the petition, I want to draw the House’s attention to the response that it received when it reached 10,000 signatures. That response that it got from the Highways Agency was unfortunate, and let me relate to hon. Members what was said subsequently. In a letter to Ms Blackburn, the Highways Agency stated:

“The statement in response to Harvey’s Law e-petition when reaching 10,000 signatures was provided by the Highways Agency. Our response was unclear as it did not accurately reflect the Agency’s changing approach and was taken from the policy of older contracts which are being phased out nationally. I am sorry that the statement in response to the e-petition didn’t clearly explain the changing situation. I am investigating whether this clarification can be issued as an update on the e-petition website.”

That is pretty appalling. E-petitions are part of our democratic process and have been embraced by large portions of the population, who should not have to put up with a situation such as that one, in which incorrect information was given. As has been pointed out to me, the clarification was a bit late in that day. It left a number of unanswered questions, such as how many more signatures the e-petition would have gained if the original response had not been put on the website. That is conjecture, but we just do not know.

[Margot James (Stourbridge) (Con)]

I congratulate the hon. Gentleman on securing this important debate. Like my hon. Friend the Member for Birmingham, Yardley (John Hemming), I lost a dog on the road when I was a child—a Great Dane called Max. I have never forgotten him, but at least we knew within 24 hours or less, which saved a lot of additional heartache. I know my right hon. Friend the Minister to be a man with a huge regard for family, and I want to re-emphasise the point made earlier by the hon. Member for Halton (Derek Twigg) that pets, especially dogs and cats, are part of the family. That is the most important reason to get this matter rectified with the national Highways Agency and other relevant authorities.

[Derek Twigg]

I agree with the hon. Lady. Her passion about this issue comes through, and I thank her for making that point.

Going back to the information I was talking about, the other question that needs to be asked is whether something would have been done to address the issue sooner if the facts originally given had been correct and not so misleading.

What do we want to see happen? We want to see the compulsory scanning of all domestic animals retrieved from the highways, and a log report filed and circulated to both the police and dog warden, which goes back to the point made by my hon. Friend the Member for Denton and Reddish (Andrew Gwynne). We also want to see photographs of the deceased being held with the log report to be used for identification purposes.

The desired outcome is clearly legislation to make that activity compulsory, but we would see the alternative outcome of simply adding scanning back into the Highways Agency’s procedures as a good start and a positive move forward. However, that could leave the system open to abuse, and it could fall foul of any cuts or savings that any future Government want to make. That is why enshrining the requirements in law is important, but reintegrating the scanning procedure would be a step forward.

If the Minister does not say today that legislation will be introduced, but does say, as we hope, that the procedure will be changed back, some questions will still need to be asked, and he may want to consider them. If there is no legislation, how will the issue be policed and regulated? Who will inspect whether the procedures are being adhered to and how frequently? Who will train the staff to scan correctly? That is an important point, because the entire body needs to be scanned, not just the neck area, as chips can migrate in an animal’s body. The whole procedure takes only a matter of seconds; it is not something that will cause a lot of problems.

I am also informed by Harvey’s law campaigners that legislation is fully supported by a significant number of high-profile organisations, including the Royal Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals, the Pet Industry Federation, Agria Pet Insurance, Vetsonline, Lostbox and so on, as well as a whole host of pet publications, including Life With Pets and Dogs Today.

[Bill Esterson (Sefton Central) (Lab)]

I congratulate my hon. Friend on securing the debate and thank everybody who has lobbied me in support. As a pet owner, I am delighted to be here supporting the e-petition today. I visited Battersea Dogs and Cats home recently, and the staff impressed on me just how important this issue is. Similarly, when I visit Freshfields animal rescue centre in my constituency, the staff there make the same point. We heard from the hon. Member for Stourbridge (Margot James) about the importance to humans of pets, but I think many people misunderstand how strong the emotional ties are and just how much bereavement people go through. I take this opportunity to impress on the Minister that the debate is probably more about the emotional well-being of people, and their attachment to their pets, than anything else. My hon. Friend the Member for Halton (Derek Twigg) has made the case for why that is so important, and I hope that the Minister will respond in that vein.

[Derek Twigg]

I thank my hon. Friend. He brings passion to the debate, and I know from previous conversations how desperate he was to ensure that he could be here today. He makes the point about the impact on the well-being of pet owners of a loss that is made worse by the tragic circumstances that we are discussing.

Costs are a bit difficult to pin down, but clearly the Highways Agency already holds much of the relevant equipment, so there really cannot be a massive extra cost for it. Unfortunately, it will still have to remove pets from the road, take them away and deal with them as it would normally.

[Sir Tony Cunningham (Workington) (Lab)]

If it comes down to a question of cost, it is important to remember that the vast majority of pet owners are taxpayers.

--- Later in debate ---

[Derek Twigg]

My hon. Friend is absolutely correct about that, but, as I said, I fail to see how there can be a great cost, because of the equipment that the Highways Agency currently holds and because it will have to remove the body, take it away and deal with it anyway. Harvey’s law campaigners believe that most of the additional cost would be in paperwork. The campaign has done a lot of work on the matter and estimates that that might be in the region of £15,500. Even so, that is a small amount of money given the size of the overall problem, but I stress that it has been difficult to pin down costs. At the end of the day, all the work needs to be done anyway, so I find it difficult to understand why the change has been made on the basis of a cut. That does not seem to add up, and I think that the Minister needs to have a look at that.

Finally, constituents have asked me to raise the issue of cats as well—some of my hon. Friends who are in the Chamber are cat owners. Although there is no legislation in place for the compulsory microchipping of cats—the onus is on the pet owners—they should be afforded the same dignity as dogs in the procedure for scanning their deceased bodies, with every effort made to contact the owner.

To conclude, what we are asking for is both reasonable and morally the right thing to do. It is not unreasonable or ridiculous.

[Mr Mike Hancock (Portsmouth South) (Ind)]

I apologise for missing the start of the hon. Gentleman’s speech—I was detained elsewhere in the House. If we go for legislation, does he have any idea how long that will take? I have had letters from people saying, “Isn’t it better to get a promise from the Government to do something?” To wait for legislation might mean that the wait is too long.

[Derek Twigg]

The hon. Gentleman makes an important point, but he might have missed the part of my speech where I referred to that. We want the procedures put back in place, so that scanning takes place and can be done pretty quickly.

[Mr Hancock]

Immediately.

[Derek Twigg]

Exactly, very quickly indeed, but we also want legislation. We can do both those things, which is what I urge the Minister to do today. As I said, that does not appear to be overly expensive. By allowing the change in the procedure, we could appear heartless. There is no need for that, or for causing massive additional anguish and grief to those who have lost their beloved pets in such tragic circumstances. Although I am not a pet owner, when I speak to pet owners who have lost their pets I find it difficult to understand the anguish that they have gone through. It is palpable, and we should keep that in mind.

I hope that the Minister will listen to the strong case that the campaigners have made and that Members will make today in the debate. I was disappointed by the reply that I received from him by letter, but previously he has always been helpful and gone out of his way to try to help, particularly on constituency issues. On this wider issue, which is of national interest, I am sure he will be equally interested to try to do his best. I hope that he will do that and that we will get some good news.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Hayes]

The hon. Lady has known me for a number of years, and we have worked together on a number of campaigns. She knows that when I say “ask”, I mean “order”. I have told the Highways Agency that I expect it to do this work. It will be a requirement; it is what will happen. That is how I operate as a Minister, as she knows. I am surprised she doubted me, given our long-standing friendship. [Interruption.] I agree that it is important to put that on the record.

The shadow Minister was right to ask whether the process will be mandatory. I will tell him exactly what it will be; mandatory requirements for identifying and recording domestic animals will be included in the documents for the tenders for new contracts. That applies to Cornwall and Devon, Kent, Surrey, East Sussex, West Sussex, Leicestershire, Northamptonshire, Derbyshire, Nottinghamshire, Lincolnshire, parts of Warwickshire, Rutland, parts of Oxfordshire, Yorkshire and Humberside, Cumbria and parts of Lancashire, Northumberland, Tyne and Wear, Durham and North Yorkshire. Most of those tenders were issued at the end of February or will be issued in March. Some of the tenders will be issued a little later, as the contracts expire.

I want to go further, however. For those contracts that have already been issued—in Somerset, Avon, Wiltshire, Gloucestershire, Hampshire, Berkshire, Surrey, Dorset, Wiltshire, Essex, Cambridgeshire, Suffolk, Norfolk, Bedfordshire, Hertfordshire, parts of Suffolk, the west midlands, Worcestershire, Shropshire, Staffordshire, parts of Gloucestershire, Cheshire, Greater Manchester, Merseyside and parts of Lancashire—I have asked for urgent investigation to retrofit mandatory requirements on identifying and recording domestic animals found on the strategic road network. We will commence that process immediately this spring and bring it into operation as soon as we can, following the re-discussion of those contracts. I want the identification and recording to be mandatory, and it will be.

[Derek Twigg]

I assume that the Minister will be bringing in the legislation shortly, but let us be clear: we are about to have a general election, when Parliament will be dissolved. In asking for this process to be done, has he set a time limit?

[Mr Hayes]

I have said that the process will begin straight away, but it is helpful that the hon. Gentleman posed that question, because I am more than happy, following this debate, to write to all the Members who have contributed—I should perhaps put a copy of the letter in the Library of the House—setting out a timetable for the implementation of the commitment I have made today. That would be a fair and reasonable thing to do in response to the debate, to assure those who have been waging this campaign of the absolute certainty of the commitments I have offered. Notwithstanding the hon. Gentleman’s integrity, of which I have no doubt, it is important that I do that before the general election, because I am currently the Minister responsible for this area, and elections are funny old things. We will ensure that the measure is set in stone.

The even better news for those of us who are cat owners is that I want to ensure that where cats are involved in accidents, owners can be confident that we will endeavour to ensure that they are identified. Cats often have means of identification, so where a cat can reasonably be identified, its owner should be contacted in the same way. That is made more complicated—I do not want to be insensitive—by the fact that cats sometimes suffer in high-speed accidents the kind of injury that makes it difficult to identify them, but that will not stop us. We will use every possible endeavour and every practical means to identify cat owners.

--- Later in debate ---

[Derek Twigg]

Thank you, Mr Hollobone. I shall try to live up to your expectations.

It has been an excellent debate, without one bad speech or intervention. Everything has been superb, with all the issues that have been raised and the degree of emotion brought into the debate—but controlled emotion, based on facts and on listening to constituents, which has been an important part of things. A number of hon. Members have been clear that they had listened to constituents.

This is a great example of democracy in action. Constituents contacted their Members of Parliament; we got together and managed to secure a debate, with the approval of the Backbench Business Committee—it is great that its Chair is here—and, finally, there has been a massive step forward today. We heard positively not only from our Labour Front Bencher, but from the Minister.

To sum up, the closeness of the relationship that people have with their pets—dogs and cats, in particular—is profound and has a massive emotional impact. Many Members have related to that today. Many members of the Harvey’s Army campaign are present in the Public Gallery. Everything goes back to them, because they decided to campaign and raise the issue with Members of Parliament, the community and the national and local media. It is so much down to them that we got here today.

I am reassured about the mandatory nature of what the Minister has proposed, but I point out to him that we have to be careful to keep a watchful eye on things, because we will need to legislate if there are any problems. We should not rule out legislation and we should keep an open mind about it. I am grateful to both Front Benchers, and it is great that the Minister has reconsidered after the representations made to him.

I again thank the Backbench Business Committee for allowing time for the debate and all those Members who have participated. Of course, I also thank all Harvey’s Army and the campaigners for the work that they have put in to get us to where we are today.

Question put and agreed to.

Resolved,

That this House has considered the e-petition relating to Harvey’s law.