Police Funding

Robin Swann Excerpts

Tuesday 5th November 2024 Westminster Hall

[Robin Swann (South Antrim) (UUP)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Sir Roger. I congratulate my colleague the hon. Member for North Down (Alex Easton) on bringing forward this debate. It is interesting to note that its title on the Order Paper is “Funding for policing”. It is disappointing, I am sure, for the sponsor to see the lack of Members from Government, official Opposition or other parties who have come to Westminster Hall today to debate the funding of policing across the United Kingdom. This was not going to be a debate that focused solely on the PSNI, although that is where it has gone because of the Northern Ireland influence here. That is testament to Northern Ireland’s MPs, in regard to how we value the service and the dedication of our police service across the United Kingdom. In the interests of this debate—I note that it is the Under-Secretary of State for Northern Ireland, the hon. Member for Putney (Fleur Anderson), who will respond on the funding for policing—I, like others, will focus my contributions on the PSNI.

As other speakers have pointed out, the 6,300 officers that we currently have represent an unsustainable level. As the hon. and learned Member for North Antrim (Jim Allister) said, in Patten that was envisioned to be 7,500, and our current Chief Constable has said that he would expect to have a force of 8,500 to do the job that he wants to do, given the size of our population and the level of need in Northern Ireland. We are currently asking our police service and our Chief Constable to do more with less; when it comes to the security and reassurance of the people of Northern Ireland, that is a recipe for disaster.

The hon. Member for Upper Bann (Carla Lockhart) has indicated that position, with women on our local media this morning saying that they now feel unsafe walking the streets of Northern Ireland. In this day and age in any part of this United Kingdom, it is a shame and a disgrace that we are now in a situation where women feel unsafe walking the streets. This should be a first-world country, with a first-world police service looking after the people, who deserve and expect that. By the end of this year, it is expected that our police numbers will have fallen to 6,000 in Northern Ireland—as the hon. Member for North Down has indicated, that leaves about 4,500 who will actually be deployed—and the purpose of this debate is to look at what more can be done to address the further challenges that our Chief Constable and the Northern Ireland Policing Board face in delivering their service.

As has been referenced here—although I do not think this is widely understood—policing in Northern Ireland got to the critical point at which our Chief Constable took it upon himself to write to the Prime Minister to seek direct intervention, over the heads of the Justice Minister, the Policing Board and the Northern Ireland Assembly. Such was the situation he felt so desperate about—protecting not just the backs of his own officers, but the people of Northern Ireland—that he felt that that was the direction he needed to take. How was he rewarded? With a letter of chastisement from the permanent secretary of the Department of Justice in Northern Ireland; our Chief Constable was so dedicated to service and delivery, but he received that level of put-down—and it was not corrected or even challenged by the Justice Minister, who should have stepped in to support the Chief Constable, the police and the Policing Board.

The challenges of the PSNI have been mentioned. Certain parts have not been perfect, including the data breach compensation claim and the additional pressures from the holiday pay claim, but it is concerning that yesterday in the Northern Ireland Assembly—on the back of the Budget announced in this place—the Finance Minister said that His Majesty’s Treasury is insisting that those payments come out of the Stormont budget.

It has been said that we have a challenged and declining policing budget while health funding has increased by 60% to 80% over the last 13 years. That is an unfair comparison. Any financial expert from the Northern Ireland Fiscal Council will say that health needs 6% year on year simply to stand still; I think that is a recognised statistic, so it is not fair to compare what health has received with what policing has not. As the hon. Member for North Down indicated, justice has received additional moneys, and—given the way that the structures in Northern Ireland work—it should be up to the Justice Minister how that works out.

I pay tribute to our police personnel in Northern Ireland for the continued work they do in challenging situations, day after day, night after night, and in the face of a lot of criticism. I recognise the comments from the hon. Member for Middlesbrough South and East Cleveland (Luke Myer) about going back to having a named, constituency, locally-recognised police officer. The majority of police officers want to be in that situation and we need to think about how we can support them in doing so. I also pay tribute to the Police Federation for Northern Ireland—particularly Liam Kelly—and how it has represented its officers and fought for them at every opportunity; I hope that the rest of this House does likewise.

[Sir Roger Gale (in the Chair)]

Order. Mr Shannon, I appreciate that you have been detained elsewhere with other business in the House but we are playing “beat the clock”, so I will not be able to call you. Ordinarily, because you arrived so late, I would not be able to allow you to intervene, but under these circumstances, if you choose to intervene on one of the Front-Bench spokesmen, I will allow you to do so.

Oral Answers to Questions

Robin Swann Excerpts

Wednesday 23rd October 2024 Commons Chamber

[The Secretary of State for Northern Ireland (Hilary Benn)]

The Government are committed to implementing the Windsor framework in good faith, and to protecting Northern Ireland’s place in the UK internal market. We continue to take forward policies set out in “Safeguarding the Union”, including most recently the establishment of the independent monitoring panel and the publication of guidance under section 46 of the United Kingdom Internal Market Act 2020.

[Robin Swann (South Antrim) (UUP)]

There is some concern regarding the supply of medicines to Northern Ireland. The British Generic Manufacturers Association says that there is an “absurd situation” in which there will be shortages due to the bureaucracy of the “UK only” labelling required for medicines going into Northern Ireland. The Government say that they are relaxed that the deadline will be met. Is the Secretary of State relaxed about the continued supply of medicines coming into Northern Ireland?

[Hilary Benn]

It is really important that the medicines that are required continue to be supplied. The industry has had quite a period in which to make arrangements to ensure that the labelling rules are met. I hope that, in the time available, those companies that have not done so will do so.

Northern Ireland Veterans Commissioner

Robin Swann Excerpts

Tuesday 15th October 2024 Westminster Hall

[Peter Dowd (in the Chair)]

I will call Robin Swann to move the motion and I will then call the Minister to respond. There will not be an opportunity for the Member in charge to wind up, as is the convention for 30-minute debates.

[Robin Swann (South Antrim) (UUP)]

I beg to move,

That this House has considered the role of the Northern Ireland Veterans Commissioner.

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Dowd, in this Westminster Hall debate—the first that I am sponsoring. I want to take this time to cover a number of points, the first being how these things came about and the need for them, the second being the current situation and why I have secured this debate, and the third being recommendations to the Minister as to how the office should be delivered to benefit our veteran community in Northern Ireland.

The New Decade, New Approach document, co- authored by the British and Irish Governments in January 2020, saw the restoration of the Northern Ireland Assembly after a three-year period in which it had failed to meet or establish an Executive. Under annexe A, which covered the UK Government’s commitments to Northern Ireland, there was a section entitled “Our commitments to veterans”, which contained four points. The first was:

“Introduce UK-wide legislation to further incorporate the Armed Forces Covenant into law and support full implementation of the Armed Forces Covenant.”

The second was:

“Appoint a Northern Ireland Veterans' Commissioner to act as an independent point of contact to support and enhance outcomes for veterans in Northern Ireland.”

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

I commend the hon. Gentleman on his first Westminster Hall debate. It is clear that we have much to thank Danny Kinahan for; he is a man of integrity and a veteran himself, and his footsteps will be difficult to follow. One of the overarching themes from discussions with veterans as individuals and in groups has been the vital need for a replacement and that the replacement is themselves a victim. We do not desire a civil servant with experience of holding a pen, when only those who have experienced holding a weapon and wearing a uniform can know how we feel and what we need. Does the hon. Gentleman agree that that must be the case?

[Robin Swann]

To clarify, the hon. Gentleman means a veteran—that is the point that has been made very vocally by the veterans community.

The third point in the annexe was:

“Initiate a review of the Aftercare Service in Northern Ireland (ACS) which will consider whether the remit of the ACS should be widened to cover all HM Forces veterans living in Northern Ireland with service-related injuries and conditions.”

The fourth was:

“Ensure that the work of the War Memorials Trust who protect and conserve war memorials across the UK is better promoted and understood in Northern Ireland.”

In August 2020, the then Secretary of State, Brandon Lewis, announced that the former Ulster Unionist MP Danny Kinahan had been appointed as Northern Ireland’s first Veterans Commissioner. In the spirit of transparency, it should be noted that Mr Kinahan was my party’s previous MP in the seat that I now represent. His appointment was welcomed across the board. The then leader of the DUP, now Baroness Foster, said his appointment was a

“positive and long overdue step toward ensuring the needs of Northern Ireland’s large and vibrant demographic of armed forces veterans are practically understood and addressed”.

She added that

“he brings a wealth of experience to the role and I know he will be keen to embrace the huge in-tray that awaits”.

[Mr Gregory Campbell (East Londonderry) (DUP)]

I congratulate the hon. Member on securing the debate. Does he agree that the pressing need for a commissioner was exemplified just this weekend in the national press, where the issue of the late Captain Robert Nairac was highlighted? It is also exemplified in the ongoing problems veterans face, with many of them having witnessed horrific and terrible incidents and still living with their thoughts about them.

[Robin Swann]

The hon. Member makes a valid point. I asked a question of the Northern Ireland Office on 12 December about the appointment, and the answer I got was:

“We will set out steps for the appointment of a new Northern Ireland Veterans Commissioner in due course.”

We are now almost a month on from that.

[Jim Allister (North Antrim) (TUV)]

Surely the greatest deficiency is the fact that there is no statutory basis for the Veterans Commissioner? If we are going to secure the long-term future of the essential provision that a Veterans Commissioner can offer, surely we need to have it on a statutory basis, as elsewhere in the United Kingdom. Is that not the most important step that the Government could take moving forward?

[Robin Swann]

I thank the hon. Member for his point, and I will come to it later when I quote him in regards to the concerns that were raised when Mr Kinahan resigned.

On Mr Kinahan’s appointment, the leader of the Ulster Unionist party at that stage, Dr Steve Aiken, said that it

“will be warmly welcomed by all veterans and the wider armed forces community across all of Northern Ireland”,

that Mr Kinahan would

“be a first-rate advocate for the many thousands here who have served”

and that

“by his appointment we have at long last joined the rest of the United Kingdom in providing that very necessary representation.”

[Gavin Robinson (Belfast East) (DUP)]

I congratulate the hon. Member on securing this debate. Having heard the comments of the former leaders of the DUP and the Ulster Unionists, it is important to place on record our appreciation for the work that Danny engaged in. He did not work in a party political way, but rose to the occasion as a veterans-first commissioner and a champion for veterans. Having worked with him throughout his time in the role, I think the hon. Member will come on to some important deficits and deficiencies, in terms of not only how the role was hampered and constrained by the Northern Ireland Office and the appointing Department, but how it lacked the resource that would have allowed the commissioner to engage properly with anything more than about a 10th of veterans in Northern Ireland.

[Robin Swann]

I thank the right hon. Member for his intervention—believe it or not, I was going to quote him later as well, but he has pre-empted that. Trust me, we are making cross-community representations to the Minister and the Northern Ireland Office.

Moving on from the warm words of congratulation on Mr Kinahan’s appointment, we are here today because, unfortunately, on 5 September—four years after the role was created, and having been reappointed for a second term—Mr Kinahan issued a statement announcing his resignation, which came as a surprise to some. It said:

“I can confirm that I have today resigned from my position as Northern Ireland Veterans Commissioner.

Following an open and frank conversation with the Secretary of State, I have sadly concluded that I cannot provide the independent voice that veterans require.

There is a feeling among some veterans in Northern Ireland that they have been forgotten and that they do not enjoy the same protections as their counterparts in Great Britain.

Veterans in Northern Ireland have particular needs and concerns which need to be addressed by the UK Government, which I have made very clear in our discussions.”

In closing, Danny said:

“Finally, I would like to place on record my gratitude to all those who have placed their trust in me and assisted me with my work over the last four years. I will continue to work in their interests where I can.”

[Alex Easton (North Down) (Ind)]

I congratulate the hon. Member on securing the debate. Does he agree that it is essential to empower the Veterans Commissioner and strengthen their authority, and that any enhancement is crucial to effectively protect and promote the interests of our veterans?

[Robin Swann]

I do agree with the hon. Member, and I will expand on that in my later comments.

In the Northern Ireland Assembly, Lord Elliott, then Ulster Unionist Member for Fermanagh and South Tyrone, said that Mr Kinahan’s resignation impacted directly on the veterans community and on the support available to veterans in Northern Ireland. He went on to say that Mr Kinahan

“cited an inability to: ‘provide the independent voice that veterans require’, which underscores a critical development in how veterans’ affairs are managed in Northern Ireland.”

Speaking of Mr Kinahan’s resignation, he said:

“That recent event has sparked widespread concern across the veterans community and beyond, making it a matter of immediate relevance…the recent loss of the Northern Ireland Veterans’ Support Office…underscores an alarming development that could lead to a gap in support. Given the sacrifices made by veterans, any perceived failure in providing adequate support is of exceptional public interest and requires immediate attention by the Assembly and the Northern Ireland Office.”

The hon. Member for North Antrim (Jim Allister), the leader of Traditional Unionist Voice, said that Danny Kinahan

“performed the role in very challenging circumstances and now is an opportunity for the Government to address fundamental issues before appointing a successor.”

As he said in his intervention:

“The role of Veterans’ Commissioner must be put into a statutory basis and Government must provide proper resources and a structure.”

He also pointed out something crucial:

“Something not widely known is that the post of Veterans’ Commissioner is currently only a part time role with just two staff. By way of contrast, the Victims’ Commissioner role is full time with a staff of seven.

Many veteran issues in Northern Ireland still need to be resolved. The previous government had a draft bill to align all the veterans’ commissioners across the UK and put the posts on a statutory basis…The new Labour Government needs to take this forward”.

The right hon. Member for Belfast East (Gavin Robinson), the leader of the DUP, said:

“Veterans throughout Northern Ireland and our party’s Veterans champions in local councils recognise the commitment”

displayed by Danny Kinahan.

So why the debate today? Why did the Veterans Commissioner for Northern Ireland come to the decision that he did? To sum up some of Mr Kinahan’s points from a meeting with him, the most significant issue facing the Veterans Commissioner is the lack of operational independence. The commissioner is restricted to part-time status, limiting their ability to fulfil the broad responsibilities of the role. The two staff members are assigned by the Northern Ireland Office and selected without input from the commissioner, reporting directly to the NIO, not the commissioner, which he felt undermined the commissioner’s authority to lead and manage the office.

The commissioner also faced considerable limitations in staffing decisions—for example, office staff were even empowered to propose bonus awards for themselves, rather than the commissioner initiating them. He requested a formal appraisal process to assess staff performance to address areas of improvement. That was not implemented, leaving him powerless to manage the office effectively.

The structural limitations imposed have transformed the role of commissioner into that of a figurehead: while the commissioner is the public face of veteran advocacy in Northern Ireland, Mr Kinahan felt that decision making was dominated by the Northern Ireland Office, rendering the commissioner’s role largely symbolic. He said that he also struggled to ensure that the Secretary of State received full, unedited reports, which he felt undermined the commissioner’s ability to influence policy effectively.

How do those concerns impact the role of the commissioner? The identification of support for veterans is inadequate. One of the commissioner’s primary responsibilities is to identify veterans and ensure that they receive appropriate public services. Northern Ireland does not have a comprehensive database of veterans, and no questions were included in the recent census to identify our veterans. The commissioner repeatedly raised the need for door-to-door leafleting to inform veterans of available support. As a result, he estimated that only between 5,000 and 10,000 of the 120,000 veterans in Northern Ireland are in contact with support services. That failure to engage veterans is a direct consequence of NIO involvement in the operations of the commissioner’s office and a refusal to allocate resources to key initiatives. It should also be acknowledged that the 40,000 veterans who served in the Ulster Defence Regiment under constant threat, which continued after their service ended, face different challenges and are now mostly at an age where a local focus is required.

On health services for veterans, the commissioner identified significant challenges in veterans accessing healthcare, particularly those in long-term pain awaiting surgery. He put forward a proposal for partnership with NHS England and King Edward VII’s hospital to provide veterans with faster access to surgery to achieve the commitments of the armed forces covenant and the Government. But he felt that that initiative was hampered, maybe by the over-application of section 75 of the Northern Ireland Act 1998.

The commissioner also expressed concern about the closure of our Veterans Support Office. That closure is a stark example of how veterans’ support in Northern Ireland has been undermined. The VSO was a trusted and, again, independent organisation that provided centralised support for veterans, and its closure has left a significant gap in services. The commissioner’s views were neither considered nor consulted in the making of the decision, which seems to have been driven by the NIO and by the Office for Veterans’ Affairs.

The concerns raised were also brought forward in the independent review of UK Government welfare services for veterans, published in July 2023. There were several key Northern Ireland recommendations. Recommendation 8 stated:

“A formal welfare services governance board should be created,”

which should include Ministry of Defence officials

“and the Veterans’ Commissioners for Wales, Scotland, and Northern Ireland.”

Recommendation 27 stated:

“Consideration to retaining the NIVSO brand, alongside that of the OVA, should be given.”

In conclusion, I will move to four recommendations for the future. These changes are essential to restoring the effectiveness of the Northern Ireland Veterans Commissioner and ensuring the office can fulfil its intended role. The first is to establish the full independence of the office. Commissioners’ offices must be fully independent from the NIO, with direct control over staffing, budgeting and decision making. The second is to increase the time allocation from the commissioner, from a part-time role to a full-time role, or at least to a more significant time allocation. The third is to reinstate the VSO as an independent and trusted body, with the commissioner playing a key role in shaping its service. The fourth and final recommendation is to improve reporting and communication. The commissioner should have the authority to submit reports directly to the Secretary of State and the ability to engage directly with relevant Ministers and Departments. That is why I have brought this debate and make these recommendations.

Northern Ireland City Deals

Robin Swann Excerpts

Wednesday 9th October 2024 Commons Chamber

[Hilary Benn]

I am not aware of an impact assessment that has been done. At the end of July, the Chancellor announced all the things that she would have to look at in dealing with the very adverse fiscal inheritance from the previous Government. I apologise to the right hon. Gentleman, but I did not hear what he was referring to in the second part of his question.

[Robin Swann (South Antrim) (UUP)]

The Chair of the Northern Ireland Committee, the hon. Member for Gower (Tonia Antoniazzi), referred to levelling-up funds. Is the Secretary of State aware that commitments to businesses from those funds have also been paused in Northern Ireland? In particular, Belfast International airport in my constituency was looking forward to £2.3 million from levelling-up funds, and was only told a fortnight ago that the funding was now on hold. It is not only the city deals; levelling-up funds are affected by this decision.

[Hilary Benn]

The hon. Gentleman is right: a number of things have been paused. I can think of a levelling-up project in my constituency that has been paused as a result of our fiscal inheritance. That is what the Treasury is having to deal with.

Patrick Finucane Murder

Robin Swann Excerpts

Wednesday 11th September 2024 Commons Chamber

[Hilary Benn]

The right hon. Member recounts some of the terrible murders, and I have myself met, as I am sure others have, the only survivor of the Kingsmill massacre and heard at first hand the truly chilling story of what happened on that day. First, considerable resources are now being given to the independent commission, and it is important to recognise that, because it has a huge task on its hands. I hope others will come forward to the commission to avail themselves of what it can offer.

Secondly, and I have said this to other Members in answering their questions, in this particular case a commitment was made twice, and I think it is important that we honour it. We also have to recognise in this particular case that the Court held in 2019 that all of the investigations—I accept what the right hon. Member said about them and their extent, and of course they involved the expenditure of public moneys—did not meet the requirements of article 2. Faced with that, and faced with the quashing at the end of 2022 of the decision of a previous Secretary of State not to call an inquiry pending further investigations, it has fallen to me to look at this and to decide how we are going to go forward. I have set out my reasons as clearly as I can hope to do.

[Robin Swann (South Antrim) (UUP)]

Will the Secretary of State clarify that he has now ended any opportunity for the families and loved ones who still held out hope that there would be an inquiry into the death and murder of their loved ones at the hands of terrorists across Northern Ireland? Is he saying that the only opportunity for them is to go to the Independent Commission for Reconciliation and Information Recovery—an organisation that does not have the full support of the communities of Northern Ireland and does not have the support of and has been queried by many of the families who have lost loved ones? Can I just seek clarity from the Secretary of State that he is saying to those families that their only opportunity for truth, recovery and justice is to go through this organisation, and that he will not engage with them about a further inquiry?

[Hilary Benn]

I say to the hon. Gentleman that the independent commission should not be the only opportunity open to them. That is why I have indicated that this Government will restore civil cases, and we will restore inquests in the first instance in those cases where they had been brought to an end by the legacy Act. I agree with him that it would be quite wrong if one was to say that there was only one route, denying people—the families—the rights to inquests and civil cases that apply in all other parts of the United Kingdom. That was one of the things about the legacy Act that was so profoundly wrong. It did not say that we were going to establish a new body and people could use that route, but could also use the other two—inquests and civil cases—that had been available to them thus far; it shut those other routes down. That is part of the reason why the legacy Act was so widely opposed in Northern Ireland. I must be honest that it will take time, because it will obviously require primary legislation to deal with the bit of the legacy Act that stopped the inquests and the civil cases, and that will flow from the consultation I am currently undertaking.

Oral Answers to Questions

Robin Swann Excerpts

Wednesday 24th July 2024 Commons Chamber

[Robin Swann (South Antrim) (UUP)]

I thank the Secretary of State for his answer. He will recognise that Northern Ireland is represented in the Executive, in the Northern Ireland Assembly, and now in this place by more than just the parties of the First Minister and Deputy First Minister. Will he give an assurance that he will deal openly and transparently with all those parties?

[Hilary Benn]

I will readily give the hon. Member that assurance. I have met with all the party leaders, and the commitment to consultation that I have just given to my hon. Friend the Member for Newcastle-under-Lyme (Adam Jogee) will extend to all the parties in Northern Ireland.