Police Service of Northern Ireland Training College Debate
Full Debate: Read Full DebateMatthew Patrick
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(1 day, 17 hours ago)
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The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Northern Ireland (Matthew Patrick)
It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Sir Roger. I start by congratulating the hon. Member for North Down (Alex Easton) on securing the debate. He has campaigned on this long-standing issue for some time, having secured a debate in November last year on police funding, and he has also asked me oral questions. He is a persistent and powerful advocate for this case. I also thank him for the kind invitation to visit the site in his constituency—I think we now have an agreed date in August, and I look forward to that.
As others have set out, we are here following the horrific and sustained knife attack on a street in north Belfast last night. Members will know that the Secretary of State addressed this matter at length in an urgent question in the House earlier today. I want to state that the Secretary of State has spoken to the Chief Constable, and I reiterate that he and his officers have our full, unwavering support as they pursue their important inquiries.
Those members of the public who stepped forward at immense risk to their own safety, intervening to protect the victim until the police arrived, deserve our gratitude for the extraordinary courage they showed. I also repeat the appeal not to share or repost the footage of the attack out of respect for the victim’s family. As others have said, we all now have a responsibility to urge calm and let the police do their job. As the Prime Minister said, there is no place for such violence on our streets.
Turning to the PSNI, we are indebted to those men and women who serve day in, day out to keep us, our families, friends and loved ones, our communities, the whole of Northern Ireland and—as the hon. Member for North Down said—the whole of the UK safe. Over the decades, Northern Ireland has been transformed into a much more peaceful society, which has radically changed policing in Northern Ireland since the PSNI was first established 25 years ago. However, we know there remains a small number who are determined to cause harm to our communities, and to our brave police officers, through acts of violence.
The risks faced by the police, as well as their bravery, were recently demonstrated to me by the attacks on Lurgan and Dunmurry police stations. I met many of those at the Dunmurry station in April, and I can only imagine the situation they faced as they selflessly helped evacuate local residents when the device exploded. However, it is not just national security threats that the police must deal with; they put themselves in harm’s way every day to protect the public. On 31 May a police officer was struck by a stolen police car in Downpatrick. As of Friday, I understand the officer remains in hospital receiving treatment for very serious injuries. My thoughts, and I am sure those of everyone in this debate, are with the officer and his family as we wish him a full and speedy recovery.
I know that we would all pay tribute to the tremendous efforts of the Police Service of Northern Ireland. The importance of mental health for those who serve was mentioned earlier, and it was an important part of the conversation when I was at Dunmurry police station. For the officers, it is important to stand up and speak about the horrors they witness and how that impacts them, and I am conscious that it impacts not only them but their families. If our mothers, fathers, brothers and sisters were going out and putting themselves in harm’s way every day and contending with the horrors that our police have to contend with, our mental health would also suffer, so that was a well-made point. The Government will continue to support the efforts of the police service in keeping our communities safe and, crucially, in holding those who commit criminal acts to account.
Turning to the development of the new PSNI training college, as the hon. Member for North Down set out in his powerful speech, the Police Service of Northern Ireland purchased the site in his constituency in March last year at a cost of £4.9 million. The existing training college is located at Garnerville, in Holywood, and was originally built in the 1950s as a local catering college, officially becoming a training centre for the RUC in 1986. It was subsequently taken over by the PSNI when it was formed in 2001. I understand that the PSNI sees new training facilities as a key part of its ambition to increase officer numbers to 7,500, which I welcome, as do others in the debate. An initial business case for £13 million was approved by the Executive to fund the acquisition and essential enabling works. The PSNI is now preparing a further business case for the next steps, with an estimated cost of over £200 million and an ambition to finish the works by 2033.
The Government recognise the financial pressures the PSNI faces. However, as has been stated, funding for the PSNI is largely a devolved matter, coming from the Department of Justice as part of the block grant for Northern Ireland, which I will come to later. The next steps for the development of the new training college, including securing further funding, are therefore a matter for the PSNI, the Policing Board and the Northern Ireland Executive. I am sure they will be listening to this debate and hearing the powerful points raised. It is important for the Executive to agree and deliver a sustainable, balanced, multi-year budget.
Alex Easton
I thank the Minister for his speech. Does he not have concerns, as I do, that the Northern Ireland Executive cannot really agree on anything? By the time they do agree on something, 10 years will have elapsed and they will not have the training facility. Will the Minister commit to talking to the First and Deputy First Ministers and the Justice Minister in the Executive, and to the Treasury, to try to find the funding to make sure this happens?
Matthew Patrick
I appreciate the frustration behind the hon. Member’s words about the time it is taking to secure the budget. I hear that and I will commit to raise with the Executive the training college he is advocating for, as we continue to press the importance of securing a multi-year and sustained balanced budget.
The October budget delivered a record £18.2 billion for the Northern Ireland Executive in the last financial year. That is the largest settlement in real terms in the history of devolution. It is clearly a matter for the Executive to make decisions on the allocation of resources in line with its own priorities, and it is therefore a matter for the Department of Justice to allocate that funding to the PSNI. How it is used is clearly an operational matter for the PSNI and the Chief Constable.
It is not just the block grant that the UK Government support the PSNI with.
The facts of the matter are—to be fair, most people have mentioned it—that the PSNI budget has been affected by the legacy costs, which I understand are in excess of £200 million. That takes a big chunk out of the PSNI budget every year. Although we understand that the Barnett consequential and extra moneys will be given to Northern Ireland—I say this respectfully to the Minister, because I think much of him—the fact is that the PSNI is already £200 million down because of the legacy. Will he consider some other methodology for the legacy funding, which would take the burden away from the PSNI and enable it to put some of that money towards the training college?
Matthew Patrick
If it is okay with the hon. Member, I will come to that point later. I will definitely address it, and I invite him to intervene on me if I do not—I may live to regret that.
The PSNI was previously provided with £32 million a year in additional security funding. That had been static for almost 10 years, since the 2015-16 financial year. Upon coming into government, we increased that to £37.8 million. The UK Government are also investing £235 million in the transformation of public services in Northern Ireland.
Robin Swann
On the transformation funding, could the Minister clarify just how much the PSNI has got out of the pot he mentioned? I know that it has put in several bids.
Matthew Patrick
From the direct amount funded by the UK Government—there are separate bids that are being considered by the Executive—Justice is receiving £22.6 million. That is transforming the justice system, and I understand that it has already saved 4,000 hours of police time in the first year it has been introduced.
I will address some of the points made in the debate.
Robin Swann
I appreciate that it was Justice that received the money, but could the Minister clarify how much the PSNI actually received? When members of the Policing Board were in front of the Northern Affairs Committee, they informed us that they had made a number of specific bids through that pot.
Matthew Patrick
That is funding to the Department of Justice rather than directly to the PSNI but, as I stated, given the hours of police time saved, that investment will clearly have a benefit.
On the matter of funding for the PSNI, many Members rightly raised resources, and a few raised some specifics. The hon. Member for Strangford (Jim Shannon) raised the serious issue of rural crime, which I know that he, the Ulster Farmers Union, the PSNI and many other Members take very seriously. It is not the only factor at play; as he also mentioned, the land border brings with it complexity, and makes the relationship between the PSNI and the Garda Síochána very important. That positive relationship is crucial.
I have mentioned the record settlement and the fact that the Executive must make the decision to allocate their resources. Although the PSNI is devolved and operationally independent, as we would expect, the Government remain in close contact with it and the Department of Justice. Powerful points were made. I note that Northern Ireland continues to have the highest number of police officers per head of all nations in the United Kingdom.
The hon. Member for Strangford mentioned funding for legacy, which was also mentioned by the hon. Member for Ely and East Cambridgeshire (Charlotte Cane). The previous Government put £250 million into funding legacy institutions. In addition, as announced in the joint framework, the Irish Government will contribute €25 million to support legacy mechanisms.
I mentioned the record settlement given by this Government and the increase to the additional security funding. Of course there is a requirement on the PSNI, as there is on many other UK Government Departments and agencies, to disclose information. The PSNI is no longer dealing with the caseload it had before the establishment of the Independent Commission for Reconciliation and Information Recovery.
Let me add that the Chief Constable has raised the matter directly with the Government. The Government are engaging with him and the PSNI about the resource concerns in relation to disclosure.
The hon. and learned Member for North Antrim (Jim Allister), the hon. Member for Brentwood and Ongar (Alex Burghart) and others discussed the numbers and composition of our police; the hon. Member for Brentwood and Ongar may have rung the death knell for my career given his kind words, but I will try to address his concerns. As of 1 June this year, the PSNI has 6,341 full-time-equivalent officers. The Northern Ireland Executive’s programme for government recognises that PSNI officer numbers are low. The Executive’s commitment to grow police officer numbers to 7,500, in line with the 2020 “New Decade, New Approach” agreement, is very welcome.
A well-staffed, well-resourced and well-trained PSNI is vital to the success and stability of Northern Ireland. I am aware that the PSNI restarted recruitment in December last year; the Department of Justice got an additional £7 million in Executive funding to meet the full cost of year one of the PSNI’s workforce recovery plan. Apart from national security, policing in Northern Ireland is a devolved matter and police numbers are a matter for the Department of Justice and the Chief Constable.
I move on to parading, which was mentioned by a number of hon. Members. Determinations are rightly a matter for the independent Parades Commission, which acts independently of Government. My right hon. Friend the Secretary of State has no role in that process. Determinations are legally binding, and it is important that all involved in parades and protests adhere to the rule of law and abide by any determinations made by the commission.
As others have said today, we all have a responsibility to respect the rule of law and use temperate language to reduce tensions around sensitive parades and protests. The commission continues to have the full support of the Government in its challenging role in relation to parades in Northern Ireland.
I have listened carefully to what the Minister has to say. The NIO rarely ever exercises its powers when it comes to the Parades Commission—it can intervene, but it refuses to do so. The fundamental problem that arose on the weekend was that protesters could not adhere to the Parades Commission’s determination because somebody within the police decided, in their policing plan, to ensure that they blocked the very place where the commission said the protest should occur. That is the fundamental problem. If the Minister is to address this issue, as he is doing, he must give some consideration to the inability of lawful protesters to adhere to a lawful determination because of the actions of the PSNI.
Matthew Patrick
I hear the right hon. Gentleman’s comments. Securing locally agreed arrangements for managing parades in Northern Ireland is the best option for sustainable, long-term reform. The UK Government are committed to continuing to work with local parties and others to secure the restoration of those institutions. Until such time as alternative, locally agreed arrangements are forthcoming, the Parades Commission remains the only legally constituted body that can adjudicate contentious parades in Northern Ireland. Ensuring that communities in Northern Ireland can peacefully celebrate and demonstrate their culture in an environment of respect and tolerance is of the utmost importance.
I will draw my remarks to a conclusion.
Jim Allister
Has it come to this? The Labour party-sponsored Patten report recommended 7,500 police officers and a new training centre. Do this Labour Government feel no connection or commitment to that? Are they happy to wash their hands of it?
Matthew Patrick
Not at all: I feel a connection and commitment. The way to deliver that commitment is to respect devolution and give a record financial settlement—more than at any time in the history of devolution—so that the Executive can make that determination. That is important, in terms of both showing respect and funding.
I again thank the hon. Member for North Down for securing the debate and all right hon. and hon. Members for how it has been conducted. This year marks 25 years since the establishment of the PSNI, following the recommendation of the Patten review of policing. That is a significant milestone for the PSNI and for Northern Ireland. I take this opportunity to pay tribute to the brave men and women who have served in the PSNI for their tireless work in keeping people safe in Northern Ireland and across the UK.
It is right at this anniversary to take stock of policing in Northern Ireland and celebrate the dramatic improvement in the security situation over the past 25 years. As we do so, there is not an ounce of complacency in this room or this Government about the threat that still exists. As others have said, it is right to look back at the Patten review of policing, which was such a crucial step in realising the goals of the Good Friday agreement. Important recommendations made in the review had the commendable aim of creating a police service that could attract cross-community support and legitimacy. I understand that, according to the PSNI, around 90% of the Patten recommendations have been met.
One outstanding recommendation is the establishment of a new police training college. Progress is clearly being made in realising that goal; I suspect the hon. Member for North Down will be pushing that along each and every step of the way. Given that policing and justice are devolved—a Patten recommendation—the next steps for the establishment of the training college are for the PSNI, the Northern Ireland Policing Board and the Department of Justice to determine. I am sure that they will have heard the powerful and compelling arguments in this debate about the importance of a new training college and the service it would give the PSNI in its duties to keep the people of Northern Ireland safe and do its crucial work.
Let me reiterate the importance of the Executive agreeing and delivering a sustainable, balanced, multi-year budget. The hon. Member for North Down has made a strong case for continued investment and development of the site in his constituency. Others have invited me to ask other Departments of this Government to step in. It is important to note that the money available to the Executive is a record settlement—more than at any point in the history of devolution. That gives the means to the Executive to make these decisions and to fund the Department of Justice and the PSNI as they see fit.
I believe that all the decision makers, whether the Policing Board, the Executive, the Department of Justice, the Chief Constable or the PSNI, will have heard, and not just in this debate, the calls for funding from the hon. Member for North Down and others. I am sure that we will also hear those calls in future debates.
Alex Easton
I thank each and every Member here today for their contributions, which are much appreciated. I particularly thank the Minister for his condemnation of the incident in Belfast last night and his praise of members of the public who stepped in to help the individual, who has a great debt of gratitude to them for their actions, as well as to the PSNI and the emergency services.
The choice is stark: the new policing college is going to cost £200 million. We have heard from the Minister that that is a responsibility of the Northern Ireland Executive, the Justice Minister, the Finance Minister and so on. Let us face the uncomfortable truth: unfortunately, the Justice Minister has allowed PSNI numbers to fall well below 1,000. That has had an effect on morale and public confidence. The Department of Justice and the Executive just do not have £200 million—even if they did, the reality is that the Executive cannot agree on anything. I doubt very much whether they would agree on producing £200 million to build this college, which is much needed.
There is nothing more important than having a new police college to train the police officers we need. Without it, there will not be the proper facilities or training that are desperately needed for the challenges that we face in Northern Ireland—which, if we are totally honest, are more numerous than those in other parts of the United Kingdom. Unless the Northern Ireland Office and UK Treasury help with the funding of this vitally needed facility, I genuinely fear for the future of policing for Northern Ireland. I believe that unless there is an intervention, we could be back here in 10 years discussing this again. I do not know whether I will have been elected in 10 years’ time, but I do fear this debate will happen again.
The Minister has agreed to put pressure on the Executive, and I appreciate that, but can I make a last ask of him? Will he at least agree to set up a meeting with the Treasury, me and PSNI representation so that we can have the discussion? That does not mean that what I have asked for will happen, but will he agree to arrange a meeting as a first stage to discuss the issue and explore options?
Matthew Patrick
I will be happy to arrange a meeting between me, the hon. Gentleman and representatives about the issue that he just raised.
Alex Easton
That has made me more happy. I am now willing to wind down and thank everybody for coming today.