EU Referendum Leaflet

Pat Glass Excerpts

Monday 9th May 2016 Westminster Hall

[Pat Glass (North West Durham) (Lab)]

We are here to state the merits of a petition that I understand was started by Jayne Adye, who is the director of the Get Britain Out campaign. She is therefore not a disinterested person who is independent of the issue or whose only concern, as the petition claims, is about the spending of public money.

We need to be honest about what this debate is about. It is yet another example of the wider leave campaign wanting to talk about process and not the real issues. I do not have a problem with that, but let us not pretend that this is about a leaflet issued by the Government. The faux outrage is intended to drown out the arguments made in the leaflet. I very much doubt that the director of the Get Britain Out campaign would have raised a petition if the Government were spending taxpayers’ money on a leaflet arguing that we should leave.

[John Redwood]

Has the hon. Lady been listening to the debate? Colleague after colleague has stood up and pointed out that the leaflet is simply wrong and misleading, because we care passionately about getting back democratic accountability and control for the British people.

[Pat Glass]

As the right hon. Gentleman said, I have sat through almost three hours of the debate very politely and courteously and listened to all of the arguments.

If we are going to do this, we should get it right. This is a small issue, but the petition talks about the Government spending

“money on biased campaigning to keep Britain inside the European Union”

and about the “Great British Public”. If we want to get this right, we must talk about the UK, not Britain. Britain is the island; the UK is much wider than that. I am sure that it was not the intention of the campaigners to cut out an entire country and all of the people of Northern Ireland. Nevertheless, let us get it right.

[Kate Hoey]

I thank my hon. Friend for that very important point. Does she not squirm at the fact that her campaign to remain is called “Britain Stronger in Europe”?

[Pat Glass]

It is not. It is called “Labour In for Britain”. I am part of a Labour campaign. As far as I can see, the leaflet is entirely legal. It has been issued by the Government well in advance of the last 28 days of the referendum period, when section 125 of the Political Parties, Elections and Referendums Act 2000 will apply and restrict publications about the referendum by bodies or persons that are wholly or mainly publicly funded. The leaflet represents the official view of the Government on the biggest decision that this country will make in a generation and which will impact on this country and our neighbours for decades. In my view, it would be unacceptable for the Government not to have a view on that and not to share that view with the people of this country.

[Ms Gisela Stuart]

Will my hon. Friend give way on that point?

[Pat Glass]

No. As has been pointed out, we have had a huge debate, but we have heard one side of the argument. Hon. Members should do me the courtesy of allowing me to give the other side of the argument.

It seems perfectly reasonable to me for the Government of the day to set out their position in the referendum. This is not a precedent; it is exactly what Governments have done before. This leaflet is clear, and the title is not misleading. It seems to me, and no doubt to those watching the debate today, that those challenging the leaflet are hoping to silence the arguments contained in it, rather than discussing the merits of issuing a leaflet or the cost.

We know that, on this issue, the Labour party—I expect to get one or two requests for an intervention here—is largely of one voice. A handful of my colleagues—I think it is five altogether—have long-held and deep-set views on the issue, and I absolutely respect that, but I think they are mistaken, and they would certainly have to agree that they are out of step with the vast majority of the parliamentary Labour party, constituency Labour parties and Labour voters. The Conservative party, however, is split on the issue. Let us look at the facts. We have a parliamentary Labour party pro-EU group. That group has 214 members.

[Tom Pursglove]

Where are they?

[Pat Glass]

I will come on to that in a moment. They include all of the leadership and all of the shadow Cabinet. On this one issue at least, in comparison with Government Members, we look like an old married couple.

I have sat here throughout the debate and listened to the arguments, and some good arguments have been made. I absolutely accept some of the arguments made by the hon. Member for Gainsborough (Sir Edward Leigh) about fairness. However, I was hoping that, in almost three hours, I would have heard what “out” looks like in terms of jobs, consumers and the environment. What would it look like for women and young people and for our future security? I have not heard any of that. What I have heard is that it will be all right on the night. Even the leading Brexit economist now says that an EU exit would kill off our manufacturing sector.

As someone from the north-east, I was surprised at what was said by the hon. Member for Berwick-upon-Tweed (Mrs Trevelyan), who is not listening at the moment. We are the only region in the country that has a trade surplus. We are a manufacturing region, and hundreds of thousands of jobs depend on our being part of the European Union. Leaving the EU would be a disaster for regions such as mine. I understand what the hon. Lady says about one Emirates flight out of Newcastle airport every day, but that cannot compare to the hundreds of thousands of cars that we export from the north-east to the European Union.

In the leaflet, the Government make a clear recommendation to the people of the UK that they judge it to be in our national interest to remain a member of the European Union. For once, I agree with them. The Cabinet Office has told us that independent polling shows that 85% of voters are seeking more information on which to make an informed decision. That supports what I am finding on the doorstep. When I talk to people, they are clear that this is not their No. 1 priority at the moment. However, they know it is important and they want the facts on which to make a decision.

[Peter Grant (Glenrothes) (SNP)]

Like my hon. Friend the Member for Glasgow North (Patrick Grady), I apologise for arriving late. I was stuck on a Eurostar train or I might have wanted to make a speech in the debate. Does the hon. Lady agree that it is a great pity that the referendum is taking place among the citizenry who are the least well informed in the whole of the European Union about what the European Union actually does? Is she concerned, as I am, that whatever the result is, it might not be the result of an informed electorate, and that cannot be good for democracy?

[Pat Glass]

Governments of both colours, over the last 41 years, have failed to make the case for the European Union; they have failed to make it real for real people’s lives. That is part of the problem: we have had 41 years of one side of the argument. It is not unreasonable that we should now start to see some of the other side of the argument.

The leaflet has cost £9.3 million, which is equivalent, we are told, to 34p per household. The official in and out campaigns will each receive £15 million and a higher spending limit of £7 million each, the use of public rooms and a public grant of up to £600,000, in order to make their case to the people of the UK, so the cost of the leaflet will presumably not now be the issue. Presumably there will now be another petition, asking us not to spend the £15 million on each side and provide the access to public rooms and so on if the issue is really the spending of public money.

My understanding from talking to people who have received the leaflet is that it has certainly caused debate and a thirst for further information. The hon. Member for Kettering (Mr Hollobone) said that he had received 476 complaints about the leaflet, and I do not doubt that for a moment, but I have received two complaints from constituents about it. In the past four weeks, I have received almost 500 contacts and complaints from constituents about tax havens in UK dependencies and overseas territories. I have actually received more complaints from constituents about the degrading quality of modern bricks than about the leaflet. That shows that it is a much greater issue among different people and in different parts of the country. My reading of the situation on the doorstep is that there is a public thirst for information. The public want a debate on the facts, and they do not want a debate on a leaflet that has been sent out already in England. One thing that I hope we can all agree on is that at least the leaflet encourages everyone to be registered to vote—everyone should take part in this far-reaching referendum. No one can say that this issue does not affect them.

I want to reference this fact sheet. Full Fact contacted every Member of Parliament in advance of the debate—I have no reason to think it contacted only me. Having checked the leaflet, Full Fact says, in summary:

“The government explicitly states that the leaflet is arguing for the UK remaining in the EU. So it is not attempting to be even-handed...Given that, much of the leaflet is accurate and the government deserves some credit for ensuring that it was published with details of the sources, making it easier for”

people to “judge independently.”

Finally, I simply want to set out Labour’s case for remaining in the EU. It is a simple case. We believe that for jobs, growth, investment and security reasons, we are better off in the European Union. We believe that, for the protection of the workers of the UK and for environmental reasons, the UK is better off in Europe. We believe that we are safer in an increasingly unsafe world if we are part of a strong economic group of 520 million people. We believe that the people of Europe can tackle those big issues that do not recognise borders and that threaten our future—climate change, international terrorism and global tax avoidance—only if we do so together.

Anglo-Russian Relations

Pat Glass Excerpts

Wednesday 4th May 2016 Westminster Hall

[Pat Glass (North West Durham) (Lab)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Davies. I thank the hon. Member for Shrewsbury and Atcham (Daniel Kawczynski) for securing the debate. It has been exciting for me: I spend so much of my time talking about the European Union that it has been great to get out and look at something slightly wider.

The UK has had a difficult relationship with Russia in recent years. It could well be described as complex and fluid, and occasionally hostile; it has rarely got above cool in the past 70 years. Economically, this country’s trade with Russia is modest and has been on a decreasing trend in recent years. Nevertheless, it is important that disruption to our trading relationship with Russia is kept to a minimum, because it has an impact on companies in this country and particularly on pension funds that invest in companies such as BP.

Outside the economic and trade interest, several main potential threats to Anglo-Russian relations arise as a result of Russian foreign policy, particularly in Ukraine and Crimea, and NATO’s response. They include: the presence of a number of Russians in the UK whom the UK has refused to extradite to Russia; Russian money—I am talking about criminal money, money laundering of Russian criminal money in the UK and its impact on our society, which is largely on the housing market in the capital—and the UK’s response to recent Russian involvement in Syria.

The UK Government, in their 2015 national security strategy, stated that Russia’s actions in Ukraine justified a stronger NATO response, but deemed Russian military action against NATO “highly unlikely”. We have taken a quite pragmatic approach to Russia. We recognise that Russia is flexing its muscles, largely to impress and threaten those states on its borders, but is being very careful not to threaten larger and stronger states and organisations such as the UK, the EU and NATO. We would recognise that as typical bullying behaviour. Despite all that, the national security strategy, as has been said, seeks to build on successful co-operation with Russia where it can. We have seen that happen quite successfully in the Iranian nuclear programme and co-operation in seeking to address the global threat from ISIL/Daesh.

In the past decade, a number of controversial Russian figures have been granted political asylum in the UK, and the UK Government have refused to extradite them at the request of the Russian Government. That has put huge strains on the Anglo-Russian diplomatic relationship, with a series of expulsions on both sides. However, whatever the rights and wrongs of Russia’s criticism of our asylum system, it is absolutely unacceptable that Russian criminals can come to this country and commit murder on the streets of London, as in the case of Alexander Litvinenko, only for the Russian Government to refuse to extradite those against whom a prima facie case has been established, in breach of international law. That case has renewed focus on Russian money in the UK, and its alleged links to Russian corruption.

In 2015, the National Crime Agency said that foreign criminals—it highlighted Russian criminals—are laundering billions of pounds of corrupt Russian money in London, pricing average Londoners out of being able to buy or even rent in central London. In 2016, the Prime Minister is to hold an anti-corruption summit and, among other things, I hope it will hold up a mirror to tax havens in the UK Crown dependencies and overseas territories, and so improve transparency in the UK property market.

Finally, I want to say something about the UK’s response to Russian involvement in Syria. Russia has a long relationship with the Government of Syria and regards Syria as being in the Russian domain of influence. However, the recent Russian military intervention has had mixed results. Human rights organisations working in the region have reported that the Russian military targeted hospitals and civilians, claiming that, in the six months to February 2016, Russian air strikes killed 1,000 civilians, including 200 children. Equally clearly, the Russian military intervention has helped to drive back ISIL/Daesh and, without doubt, it has strengthened the position of Bashar al-Assad and his Syrian army. It has also had some impact on forcing him towards a shaky truce, which we hope will solidify and, in the days ahead, include Aleppo.

It is clear to me that Vladimir Putin understands strength and weakness, and very little else. He alone supports the UK voting to leave the European Union, when every other world leader and organisation that wish this country well want us to remain in the EU. That can only be because he sees a Brexit as resulting in a weaker UK and a weaker EU, which he views as a good thing. Anglo-Russian relations will remain stable and, we hope, improve only if the UK remains part of a strong NATO, a strong European Union and a strong western alliance that is prepared to stand up to the aggression of its neighbour to the east.

EU Strategy in Afghanistan

Pat Glass Excerpts

Monday 25th April 2016 General Committees

[The Chair]

We now have until 5.34 pm for questions to the Minister. I remind Members to make the questions brief; you will have the opportunity to contribute to the debate that follows, so please confine yourselves to questions for now. I will allow Members to ask supplementary questions if they so wish.

[Pat Glass (North West Durham) (Lab)]

It is a genuine pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Bailey.

Will the Minister commit to ensuring that the UK remains at the forefront of the EU strategy on Afghanistan, whether or not this country wants to leave the European Union? Will he say a little more about strategies for employment to prevent unemployment, alienation and possible insurgency recruitment among the 400,000 young Afghans who enter the workforce each year—particularly if the economy shrinks as the international presence and the assistance contracts reduce? Will this plan support not just Afghanistan but the neighbouring countries that host the 600,000 displaced Afghans, who live mainly in Iran and Pakistan? What arrangements are in place to monitor the outcomes of the strategy and to audit EU aid, given that corruption is a major challenge in Afghanistan?

[Mr Ellwood]

I am pleased by the hon. Lady’s tone in raising those questions. It is important that we recognise the commitment and ability of Britain to influence what the EU is doing. We must recognise that NATO and other forward-leaning organisations are able to deal with adversaries or enemies; it is in peacekeeping, rebuilding and stabilisation that the EU comes to the fore. We have expertise in this area. Our commitment not just to the NATO 2% but to the official development assistance spend of 0.7% means that we are in a very experienced place to lead in the EU, to make sure that the EU’s focus is aligned with ours. We are pleased that that is also the case in regard to Afghanistan.

The hon. Lady is absolutely right to highlight the challenge of employment in Afghanistan, not least because if people do not find employment, many of them can drift into extremism because they do not feel able to change their station in life. It is important that the security umbrella can continue in effect. That is a challenge, no doubt, but we are certainly seeing the ability of non-governmental organisations to operate right across Afghanistan, from Herat all the way to Mazar-e-Sharif and Kabul itself, to provide education programmes that give people opportunities in life that they have not had before. GDP has increased tenfold since 2001 and the number of children in schools has increased by up to 6 million, with girls in particular going to school as well. Those are positive indications that we are able incrementally to help the country.

There are also regional opportunities for Afghanistan to participate in, such as the “One Belt, One Road” project led by China. There are huge opportunities for the region as a whole, but we must make sure that the challenges of extremism, terrorism and the Taliban are not able to knock them off course, particularly after the very difficult decade we had under the previous Government.

--- Later in debate ---

[Pat Glass]

I am sure the Minister will understand why the first question I put to him was about the UK’s continued commitment to Afghanistan. I have a very personal reason for that. The first thing that I did as an MP—I mean the very first thing, the day after I was elected in 2010, before I came here and signed in—was to attend the funeral of Daryn Roy, a young man from my constituency who had died in Camp Bastion in April. He was flown back and was buried the day after the election. Daryn’s family was sustained at that time and has been since by his absolute belief that what he and his fellow British soldiers were doing in Afghanistan was really making a difference, particularly for women and children. I think that we all understand why we should want to see the UK at the forefront of this European strategy and why we should be absolutely committed irrespective of what happens in June this year.

It is vital that now the military intervention is over, there is a suitably funded strategy to support Afghanistan. Given our commitment, it is right that Afghanistan is the largest recipient of aid from the EU as a whole. The Minister is quite right to say that this strategy does not duck the issues. I am grateful to the European Scrutiny Committee, because had the strategy not been submitted for debate, I would probably not have looked at it in any detail. I am pleased that I did. It clearly sets out the political context in Afghanistan and the EU strategy to help that country to become a sustainable state. It is clear that there has been real progress in Afghanistan over the past 10 years—much more so than in the neighbouring states, but the strategy clearly sets out that those gains are “mostly fragile and reversible” and describes as “acute” the challenges facing the country, including

“insurgency, corruption and the criminalisation of the state—in particular from drug money”.

It is right that the strategy focuses on peace, stability and security, on reinforcing democracy, on encouraging economic and human development and on fostering the rule of law and respect for human rights, particularly in relation to women and children. Given the fragility of this state, the challenges facing it and the fact that Afghanistan has one of the youngest populations in the world, it is vital that the EU continues to work with Afghanistan to ensure that the progress that it has made is not reversed.

Oral Answers to Questions

Pat Glass Excerpts

Tuesday 12th April 2016 Commons Chamber

[Mr Lidington]

The consistent message that we hear from friends, allies and partners, not just in Europe, but in the Commonwealth and around the world, is that they want to see us stay in the EU. I am still waiting for the advocates of quitting to come up with an example of a friendly international leader who supports their case.

[Pat Glass (North West Durham) (Lab)]

There are more cars manufactured in one city in the north of England in one month than that great car-producing country Italy makes in a year, and the vast majority of those cars are exported to Europe—and that is just one city in one region. We see that being replicated right across the country. Early assessment suggests that any post-Brexit deal would place a tariff of up to 10% on every single car manufactured in the UK and sent to Europe, and that, over time, that would damage both manufacturing and jobs in the UK. Will the Minister confirm the possibility of a tariff of at least 10% being placed on every car manufactured in the UK?

[Mr Lidington]

That is indeed the case. If we were outside the single market, and World Trade Organisation rules applied, we could expect that 10% tariff on every car exported to the rest of Europe from the United Kingdom, which is why exit would be such a bad deal.

Government Referendum Leaflet

Pat Glass Excerpts

Monday 11th April 2016 Commons Chamber

[Pat Glass (North West Durham) (Lab)]

I thank the Minister for his statement and for giving me early sight of it.

It is perfectly reasonable for the Government of the day to set out their position and the facts about our membership of the EU, just as the Labour Government did in the 1975 referendum when they published their famous red, white and blue leaflet. Indeed, the Government have an obligation to explain their view, not least because this is the biggest political choice the British people have faced for more than 40 years and the public rightly expect an informed debate that is backed up by information. I have spent a lot of time over the past couple of months knocking on doors, and I am told by lots of people, “We need the facts.” This leaflet will, at least, set out the facts for them.

The leaflet is clear as to what it is about. The title page sets out clearly:

“Why the Government believes that voting to remain in the European Union is the best decision for the UK.”

That is also the view of the Opposition but sadly not of the Conservative party, which is split on the matter, as we will, no doubt, shortly be reminded. Does the Minister agree that some of the reaction to this publication has been more about trying to silence the arguments for remaining than about trying to counter them? He will be aware that members of the Conservative party have attacked the Government’s leaflet, claiming that it is inaccurate. Is he aware that the same people also allege, for example, that we have lost control of our borders, even though, as the Government’s leaflet helpfully explains:

“The UK is not part of the EU’s border-free zone—we control our own borders which gives us the right to check everyone, including EU nationals, arriving from continental Europe”—

in the way that I was checked this morning?

Will the Minister confirm that, if we left the EU, in order to retain full access to the single market, we would need to continue to make a contribution to the EU budget, allow free movement of workers and abide by rules made by the remaining member states, and that that is what Norway has to do to get access to the largest single market in the world? Can he further confirm to those who advocate a trade deal like that which Canada has with the EU that the negotiation of that deal took seven years, and that the agreement excludes important sectors from free trade?

The truth is that those who advocate Brexit cannot say what the UK leaving the EU would look like. Many Conservative Members have spent decades wanting Britain to break away from Europe, but still they cannot tell us what out looks like. Rather than spending their time attacking the Government’s booklet, perhaps they would do well to work out what out looks like and share that with the rest of us before 23 June.

Has the Minister seen a leaflet entitled “The UK and the European Union: The Facts”, which has been posted to many households? It claims to be a neutral document shedding light on the complex issue of the EU referendum, but only when we get to the very small print on the back do we discover that it has, in fact, been produced by Vote Leave. Does he agree that there should be greater transparency, and a much bigger typeface, in such publications so that the public can discover just who is behind all this?

Labour is campaigning for Britain to remain in Europe because of the jobs, growth, investment and protection for British workers and consumers that depend on our continued EU membership. Leaving would put all that at risk and diminish Britain’s influence in the world. We are clear: Britain is better off in Europe.

[Mr Lidington]

I am grateful to the hon. Lady for her words of support. On the specific questions she posed, I can certainly confirm that, since we are outside the Schengen no borders area, we can and do apply border checks to people seeking to enter this country, including EU nationals and, as she said, UK nationals as well.

It is indeed the case that, where other countries—the hon. Lady cited Norway—have sought and obtained access to the European Union’s free trade single market, that has come at a price. That price has included acceptance of the principle of freedom of movement for workers, an obligation to pay into the European Union’s budget and, critically, an acceptance that the country concerned will implement European Union rules, including on product standards, without being present at the table, having a say or having a vote on how those rules should be made. Part of the Government’s case is indeed that the interests of British business and the interests of jobs and growth in the United Kingdom are served by our having a role in leading and shaping the direction of the single market, not by simply accepting rules that have been worked out by other countries in our absence. She is also right that, in the case of Canada, we are looking at seven years so far and still no final agreement. It is a mistake to underestimate the complexity involved in a free trade agreement negotiation, particularly if it has to be conducted in the circumstances of the UK having decided to withdraw from the European Union.

No one could be in any doubt that the leaflet being distributed this week represents the views of the Government. As I said earlier, the Government are not neutral on this issue. We accept that this is an issue on which there are long-standing differences of opinion honourably held by people of different political parties and of none. I have always respected the views of those who differ from my own on this matter, but I believe that the Government have not only the right, but a duty to explain to the electorate, when faced with a decision of this gravity, the reasons why the Government have come to the recommendation that we have come to.

EU-Turkey Agreement

Pat Glass Excerpts

Wednesday 9th March 2016 Commons Chamber

[Mr Lidington]

Let me respond to my right hon. Friend’s three questions. We already have an opt-out from Schengen; that is written into the treaties. Similar arrangements apply to Ireland and Denmark in slightly different respects. The legal measure that would be used for any liberalisation of visa arrangements for Turkey would be a Schengen measure that would be brought forward under the appropriate treaty base, so it would not apply to the United Kingdom, Denmark or Ireland. I made it clear in my initial response to my right hon. Friend that the Government do not intend to liberalise our visa arrangements with Turkey.

On my right hon. Friend’s second point, it has of course been the policy of successive British Governments, including the one in which he served with such distinction, to support the eventual accession of Turkey to EU membership. That is not going to happen in the near future. The statement of the Heads of State or Government said on Monday that they would prepare for the decision on the opening of new chapters in the accession negotiations as soon as possible. To open a chapter such as chapter 23, which deals with the rule of law, might well be very helpful to strengthen the dialogue that we shall be having with Turkey about the rule of law, human rights and the standards that are expected of candidate members of the European Union but, again, no agreement has yet been reached on any aspect of opening new chapters, and many member states will have their views about that.

On my right hon. Friend’s point about Turkish accession—or any new member’s accession—and freedom of movement, the Government have said repeatedly that we will not agree to any further EU enlargement unless we first have in place new arrangements for transitional controls on freedom of movement so that we do not take on the risk, as we did in 2004, of very large movements of people in the aftermath of a new accession. Every decision to do with EU membership requires unanimity, so every country has a veto on every such step.

Thirdly, my right hon. Friend asked about finance. As I said, there are no formal proposals on the table. There is an ongoing negotiation at EU level in which there are many different moving parts. My right hon. Friend the Prime Minister will make a statement after the European Council next week, but the refugee facility agreed last year is budgeted for and is causing the Commission to reprioritise its various spending programmes, which seems a sensible thing for it to do.

[Pat Glass (North West Durham) (Lab)]

The countries of the middle east and the European Union are now confronted by the biggest refugee crisis since the end of the second world war. In the past 12 months alone, more than 1 million people have entered the EU by sea, mostly from Turkey to Greece. Does the Minister agree that the only way to deal with the crisis is to work with our European neighbours and other countries affected in the region, including Turkey? We welcome the fact that European nations are working together to try to find a solution, rather than having a situation of individual countries trying to find individual solutions to what is clearly a collective challenge.

We must recognise that we all have a responsibility to ensure that the language that we use reflects the fact that we are talking about fellow human beings in the most difficult of circumstances. Does the Minister therefore agree that it was deeply irresponsible of the Prime Minister to refer to people who are frightened, tired and fearful—families, vulnerable women, children and old people—as a “bunch of migrants”?

Does the Minister agree that the only way to reduce the overall flow of refugees is to tackle its root cause: the slaughter of the Syrian civil war? It would therefore be helpful if he could give us his latest assessment of progress with the ceasefire. The EU and Turkey say that they have agreed the broad principles of a plan to ease the migration crisis. How many of the promised 20,000 Syrian refugees have we settled? What additional financial contribution will the UK be making? When does the Minister expect any additional payments to be made? Can he set out how that money will break the business model of the smugglers exploiting the most vulnerable in the most dangerous way? How will we ensure that the money will be spent on what it was intended to be spent on? Who is monitoring this, and how? With the threat of conflict and climate change across the world, does the Minister agree that this shows exactly why we need to work together internationally, including by being a member of the EU, rather than walking away from our shared interests and responsibilities?

[Mr Lidington]

I agree with the hon. Lady that it is in this country’s interests, and in the interests of every European country, that we put together a determined and coherent response to the crisis. I also agree that no single European country—not Greece, Germany, the UK or anyone else—can solve this human tragedy, or stop the wicked work of the people traffickers who are exploiting it, on its own.

The hon. Lady asked about the ceasefire in Syria. The latest information indicates that it is holding, but it is not holding perfectly—that will be no surprise to any Member. The Prime Minister, along with other European leaders, had a conference call with President Putin a few days ago to take stock of how things now look, and to urge him to work towards a political settlement and a political transition in Syria, which we continue to believe represents the long-term answer to try to rebuild that country and to give people hope that they can have a safe and secure life there.

The hon. Lady asked how the business model of the people traffickers would be harmed by the agreement reached last week. One key element of the deal—I emphasise again that it is yet to be finalised—would be that somebody who went in a boat and was intercepted or processed having reached one of the Greek islands would face being sent back to Turkey. They would then be put to the back of the queue for legal resettlement, so the incentive for people to entrust their safety to the people carriers would be removed.

The hon. Lady asked about the number of arrivals in this country under the Syrian refugee resettlement scheme. The number is now running at more than 1,000, so this is going on track and much as we had planned. I ought to recognise the role that the devolved Administrations and local authorities of all political colours have played in trying to make the scheme successful, and in making the process as easy as possible for the people whom we are trying to help.

Referendums

Pat Glass Excerpts

Monday 29th February 2016 Commons Chamber

[Pat Glass (North West Durham) (Lab)]

We seem to have focused on process for so much of today that I hope this will be the last time we do so.

I want to check some of the details of the statutory instrument with the Minister. It sets the date of the referendum on whether the United Kingdom should remain a member of the European Union. It also prescribes the length of the referendum period, the start of the period for applications to become a designated organisation, and the periods for the reporting of donations or regulated transactions. If would be good if the Minister nodded.

[Mr Lidington]

indicated assent.

[Pat Glass]

The main purpose of the statutory instrument is to set 23 June 2016 as the date of the referendum, which will take place over the whole of the UK and in Gibraltar. It prescribes the referendum period, which will begin on 15 April 2016, and it prescribes 4 March 2016 as the start of the period in which applications can be made to become designated organisations in the referendum. I understand that that poses no problem for the organisations in the remain campaign, but those in the hopelessly splintered out campaign seem to be having a much greater problem. Now is the time for them to get their act together if they are to hit the deadline.

The statutory instrument also sets out periods for the reporting of donations or regulated transactions—for example, loans—by permitted participants who are not registered parties or are minor parties. It sets out the dates on or before which reports must be delivered to the Electoral Commission. Okay so far?

[Mr Lidington]

indicated assent.

[Pat Glass]

Labour has always said that as soon as the Government’s European negotiations are completed, they should get on with the referendum and end the uncertainty, which is bad for British jobs, growth, investment and working people.

[Jonathan Edwards]

The shadow Minister will be aware of the letter written by the First Minister of Wales in conjunction with the First Ministers of Scotland and Northern Ireland. Of course, the First Minister of Wales is a Labour party member. He said:

“We believe that holding a referendum as early as June will mean that a significant part of the referendum campaign will necessarily run in parallel with those elections and risks confusing issues at a moment when clarity is required.”

Will the shadow Minister support his position tonight in the Lobby when there is a vote on this issue? If the Labour party here abstains or votes with the Government, does it not show that we cannot take a word the First Minister says seriously?

[Pat Glass]

I will come on to those issues.

Labour agreed with the Electoral Commission that the referendum date should be separate from that when other polls are taking place, and succeeded in pressuring the Government to amend the European Union Referendum Bill to stop the referendum being held on 5 May 2016 so that it did not clash with the other elections on that day. However, we do not agree with the SNP and others that it is in some way disrespectful to hold the referendum on 23 June.

[Jonathan Edwards]

Will the hon. Lady give way?

[Pat Glass]

Just a second.

We believe that the people of the UK are perfectly capable of making an important decision in early May and another important decision in late June, seven weeks later. It is patronising to suggest otherwise.

This country is safer, stronger and more prosperous in Europe and Labour is campaigning to stay in. Our membership of the EU brings jobs, growth and investment. It protects British workers and consumers, and helps to keep us safe.

[Patrick Grady]

Will the hon. Lady confirm what the shadow Foreign Secretary said the other day, which is that it is the position of the Labour party that if Scotland votes to stay in the European Union and the rest of the UK votes to leave, Labour is quite happy for Scotland to be dragged out of the EU against its will?

[Pat Glass]

The position of the Labour party is that it is for the people of the UK to make a decision on this, because the people of Scotland had a referendum and chose to stay as part of the UK.

[Emma Reynolds (Wolverhampton North East) (Lab)]

Does my hon. Friend agree that if we put the date of the referendum back beyond 23 June, it would slip beyond the summer and into the autumn, because many people in Scotland go on holiday earlier than those in the rest of the UK and we will be on our holidays in August? That would prolong the period of uncertainty and all the risks to business investment that go with it.

[Pat Glass]

I agree entirely. Uncertainty is bad for British jobs and the British economy, and we believe that the longer this goes on, the more damage will be done to our economy and our jobs.

[John Redwood]

What does the hon. Lady think that EU state aid rules, energy prices, energy intervention and procurement rules have done to our steel jobs? What has the common fisheries policy done to our fishing jobs?

[Pat Glass]

People will have to make a decision on those issues, but they are not related to this statutory instrument. We accept that this great country would be able to make its way in the world outside the EU, but leaving would cost us dearly in all kinds of ways including jobs, our competitiveness in business, and the safety of our citizens from terrorism, crime, climate change and war. At a time of Russian expansionism and international terrorism from groups such as ISIS-Daesh, we do not believe that it is right to risk our safety and security as a nation. We want the UK to lead, not leave, Europe. We are the second biggest economy in the EU, and many of our partners such as Denmark, Sweden, the Netherlands and others want to work with us further to reform the EU, and they are looking to the UK to lead on that. Leaving the EU risks future peace in Europe, and Britain’s influence in the world.

In government, Labour passed the Political Parties, Elections and Referendums Act 2000 and we supported the passage of the European Union Referendum Act 2015. We support this statutory instrument, and we will leave it to others to moan about the date of the referendum. We are getting on and putting our energy into winning the referendum and keeping Britain leading in Europe.

EU Membership (Audit of Costs and Benefits) Bill

Pat Glass Excerpts

Friday 26th February 2016 Commons Chamber

[Pat Glass (North West Durham) (Lab)]

I thank the hon. Member for Wellingborough (Mr Bone), who is not present but whose Bill this is, for giving us the opportunity to once again debate the merits or otherwise of the European Union.

I think we should have a cost-benefit analysis of this debate, given that right at the beginning—it has been going for some three hours—we were told that it was highly unlikely that the Bill would be taken any further, because that would require the referendum to be delayed. It is, therefore, a complete waste of everybody’s time and of taxpayers’ money.

[Mr Chope]

Will the hon. Lady give way?

[Pat Glass]

Perhaps the hon. Gentleman could tell us how much this debate has cost the taxpayer.

[Mr Chope]

May I ask the hon. Lady whether that is her best point?

[Pat Glass]

No, but I think it is worth saying. We have sat here for three hours, and we have heard Members talk for at least an hour about a Bill that they do not intend to take any further. As the Bill is about a cost-benefit analysis, perhaps we can have a cost-benefit analysis of this morning for the taxpayers of this country.

[Oliver Colvile]

My great grandfather was a rural vicar in Oxfordshire. He said that he did not mind his congregation looking at their watches; it was when they started shaking them that he became concerned. I feel that that is something we should take on board.

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Lindsay Hoyle)]

I assure you that I am beginning to look at my watch.

[Pat Glass]

That is helpful. As the hon. Gentleman has spoken about his great grandfather, I will talk about mine a little later. [Interruption.] Would the hon. Member for Shipley (Philip Davies) like to say something about my great grandfather? I will talk about him later, and perhaps the hon. Gentleman would like to intervene then.

[Oliver Colvile]

I would like the hon. Lady to talk about her great grandfather.

[Pat Glass]

I will do so later.

We had a long debate on European affairs yesterday. I am sure we would all agree that it was an excellent debate, with many outstanding contributions. The debate has felt a little flat today, because we have returned to the usual suspects with the usual very narrow arguments. However, it gives me an opportunity to talk once again about the benefits of being a member of the European Union. I do not think—this is one of our criticisms of the Bill—that the benefits of being a member of the European Union can be narrowed down to simply an economic cost. The question is much bigger than that.

Labour, as hon. Members know, are united on this issue. We believe that Britain is stronger, safer and more prosperous as part of the European Union.

[Philip Davies]

Is that it?

[Pat Glass]

No; just a second. We are a proud nation, with almost half our exports going to European countries. Those exports were worth £227 billion last year to the UK economy. We receive, on average, £26.5 billion of investment every year from the EU. Jobs and businesses, large and small, depend on our trading with the EU. Future EU trade could create 790,000 more jobs by 2030 by opening up markets in digital services, energy and tourism.

I will talk a little about my part of the country. The north-east is the only part of the country that has a trade surplus. Proportionately, we are the biggest exporting region in the country. We make things in my part of the world and we export them, largely to Europe. As I said yesterday, we make more cars in one city in the north-east in a month than that great car-building country, Italy, does in a whole year. I invite Conservative Members to go along to Teesport or the port of Tyne and see the lines of cars that are made in the north-east and exported to the European Union. In my region, 75% of our trade depends on being part of the European Union. Hundreds of thousands of jobs in the north-east are directly or indirectly linked to being part of the European Union. That is just one aspect of the benefits.

I will talk about the peace dividend later, but I want to talk a little about the fact that we live in a global world where we face issues such as international terrorism, international crime, war, migration and Russian expansionism. Listening to the debate today, I have not heard anything from Conservative Members that gives me any answers to the big questions facing us. It is not possible to reduce those huge issues to a cost-benefit analysis or an economic cost.

TTIP has been mentioned. I have to say that my blood runs cold at the thought of negotiating a TTIP arrangement outside the European Union. I am quite clear that our public services and our NHS need to be protected in any negotiations about TTIP. Having listened to the libertarians opposite, I am sure that that would not be the case.

[David Morris]

On negotiating TTIP within Europe, it is my understanding that that point is a non-issue, especially in relation to the NHS, as has been clarified many times during the past three years. Will the hon. Lady elaborate on that point?

[Pat Glass]

In such negotiations, it is clear that we are much more likely to get a TTIP agreement with red lines around our public services and the NHS as part of the European Union. If we were outside the European Union and negotiating such a treaty directly with the USA, I would not be so confident that that would be the priority of the current Government.

[David Morris]

For the record, does the Opposition agree that there will be protection for the NHS under TTIP within the European framework as it stands?

[Pat Glass]

We agree that if there is to be a TTIP agreement, it is much better to negotiate it with Britain as part of the European Union.

We have talked a lot about sovereignty in recent weeks. Many of us would agree that we have in various ways negotiated on our sovereignty in order to be part of something bigger. We have given up part of our sovereignty in defence to be part of organisations such as NATO, and we have done the same with the UN. On a personal level, when I married—I have been married for 30 years—I gave up some of my sovereignty over decisions that I would have made myself to be part of something that I accepted was bigger and better for both of us. The principle is very clear: in order to be part of something better, we sometimes have to give up things we want to hang on to. That is true of our sovereignty. I do not believe that this country has given away our sovereignty. It is very clear that whenever decisions are made in the European Union, they come back to and come under the sovereignty of this House.

On immigration, one of the huge strengths of this country—it has made us one of the strongest, richest, most powerful and greatest countries in the world—has been our ability, over centuries, to absorb and integrate millions of immigrants, migrants, people fleeing oppression and economic migrants. My family were economic refugees who came to this country during the Irish famine in the mid-19th century. Such people came to this country and worked hard for it. They brought up their children in this country, and paid their taxes. They fought for this country and, frankly, some of them died for this country. That is part of what makes this country the great country it is. To the idea that we can close the doors to people who will work in our NHS or our schools, I would say that that is part of what has kept this country rich. This country has got rich and stayed rich on immigration. We need to be very careful when talking about closing the doors to people, particularly those from the European Union.

[Mr Chope]

I do not think anyone has talked about closing the doors. We have talked about giving equal access on the basis of merit to foreigners regardless of whether they are from the EU or from outside the EU. For example, the hospital in my area tried to recruit nurses from the Philippines because they are well qualified for its needs, but it was unable to do so because priority has to be given to EU nurses.

[Pat Glass]

If we look at EU immigration, we can see that it is almost the same: 2.3 million people from the European Union are in Britain; and 2 million Brits live in the European Union. Many of them are working in and contributing to European countries and some of them, having worked hard all their lives, have retired and are now living in the European Union. We must be absolutely clear about what “out” would look like for those people. At the end of this debate, I want us to be very clear about that. We know what “in” looks like—we have had 41 years of what “in” looks like—but we absolutely no idea what “out” would look like for jobs and the economy, or for people from the EU working in this country and people from this country working in the EU.

[Philip Davies]

Will the hon. Lady give way?

[Pat Glass]

If the hon. Gentleman is going to tell us what “out” would look like, I will happily give way.

[Philip Davies]

I am rather interested in the Labour party’s views. I urge the hon. Lady to look up the meaning of net migration. Net migration means the number of people coming in after we have taken out the ones who have already left, and that figure is 325,000. Is her party happy with the net migration figures as they are? Is she not prepared to take any measures to reduce them?

[Pat Glass]

Once again, another opportunity to tell us what “out” would look like and we do not get it.

We had an excellent debate in the Chamber yesterday, a lot of which centred on the peace dividend. I have not heard anything about that from Conservative Members today. The first aim of the European Union was peace. It was created not as a project or a political union, but to ensure peace in western Europe after the ruins of 1945. We committed genocide on one another in western Europe every 30 years up until 1945. As I said in the Chamber yesterday, for me this is personal. It is not just about politics. I accept that the European Union is not the only reason why young men and women are not lying in graves outside Thiepval and Ypres today, unlike my great grandfather and his brother, two young men from this country aged 22 and 25 who died within six weeks of each other and are lying in unmarked graves in Belgium and France. Great though the loss was to my family, it pales into insignificance alongside the loss suffered by other families. Mrs Smith from Bishop Auckland, a town just over the hill from where I live, lost her husband and her five sons. How can we put an economic cost on that? At the end of the awful wars in western Europe, when we regularly turned our continent into a killing field, the victors and the vanquished said never again will we allow this to happen. I believe that by voting to remain in the European Union we will ensure that this never happens again to the young people of this country.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Ellwood]

I was not privy to the exact point in the debate when that comment was made, but I will ask the relevant Home Office Minister to write to my hon. Friend to clarify exactly what does happen. I am now mildly curious to find out those details myself.

[Pat Glass]

That is really interesting and I wonder whether that happens. It sounds like a damned good idea, doesn’t it?

[Mr Ellwood]

I feel an element of consensus breaking out in the Chamber, which is a rare thing.

As I bring my introductory remarks to a close, may I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Christchurch on promoting the Bill, and my hon. Friend the Member for Wellingborough, who has been an astute advocate of debating these matters in more detail? The issue of Europe is not only topical, but of the utmost importance. It received a full day’s parliamentary debate yesterday and we will have further debates leading up to 23 June.

The British public made it clear that they were not happy with the status quo, and the Prime Minister sought to address that, so last November he wrote to Donald Tusk, the President of the European Council, setting out in detail the four areas in which he sought change to the European Union, namely economic governance, competence, sovereignty and immigration. At the February European Council he achieved a deal covering each of those areas.

As the Prime Minister has said, we said that we would get Britain out of ever closer union and give national Parliaments the power to work together to block unwanted EU laws. The deal we have delivered means that we will never become part of a European Union superstate.

We said that we would make Europe more competitive, and we have delivered that in this deal as well, with commitments to cut red tape, in particular for small businesses. That means we can create more jobs and security for working people in Britain.

We said that we would protect Britain as the eurozone continues to integrate. We have delivered that in this deal, which means that British taxpayers will never be required to bail out the eurozone and that British businesses can never be discriminated against because we are not part of the euro.

We said that we would put an end to the “something for nothing” welfare culture for EU migrants so that we can control immigration from Europe, and we have delivered on that as well. EU migrants can no longer claim full in-work benefits for four years, which some people said would be impossible to achieve, and child benefit will no longer be sent overseas to Europe at UK rates. We have already delivered our commitments to require EU migrants to leave Britain after six months if they have not found work and have no genuine prospect of finding a job, and to stop EU migrants being able to claim universal credit while looking for work.

This is a legally binding and irreversible deal that delivers for Britain. It means that we will never join the euro, never join a European army and never be part of the Schengen borderless zone.

Soon the people of Britain will have their say on the UK’s membership of the EU. The Prime Minister has announced that he intends to hold the referendum on Thursday 23 June, and that must now be agreed by both Houses of Parliament. We have already published information on the outcome of the Government’s negotiations on the UK’s membership of the EU, as required by the European Union Referendum Act 2015. In time, we will publish information on the rights and obligations resulting from the UK’s membership of the EU, as well as examples of countries that are not members of the EU but have other arrangements with it.

This will be a once-in-a-generation moment to shape the future of our country. Ultimately, it will be for the British people to decide, but the Government have made it clear that we support continued membership of a reformed European Union. I want to set out in more detail the Government’s thinking on renegotiation, but first I will explain some of the benefits—I am sure that Back Benchers will appreciate this—of our membership of the EU.

The Government’s long-term economic plan is delivering economic security for families and businesses, underpinned by sound public finances, by investing in the UK’s future, addressing the productivity challenge and rebalancing the economy towards trade and investment. With turbulence in the global economy, membership of the EU supports that plan by giving British businesses access to the free trade single market and dozens of trade deals across the world. The Government’s deal keeps the EU moving firmly in the right direction. It hardwires competitiveness into the decision making of the EU and commits the EU to pursuing more trade deals with non-EU countries. We contribute a huge amount and get a huge amount in return. We cannot be a force for good in a reformed Europe if we are not at the heart of what is going on. We are a major player—

European Affairs

Pat Glass Excerpts

Thursday 25th February 2016 Commons Chamber

[Pat Glass (North West Durham) (Lab)]

This has been an excellent debate. I have recently sat through a number of EU debates in the Chamber that have been much less powerful and have centred on just one side of the argument, and I have listened ad infinitum to dry arguments about process. However, today’s debate has not been like that. The starting gun—the announcement of the date of the referendum—has opened the door to both sides of the argument and raised the level of the debate.

We have heard a number of outstanding contributions today. My right hon. Friend the Member for Leeds Central (Hilary Benn) set out the arguments for remaining in the European Union very clearly, in a speech that balanced high eloquence with pragmatism. I could not fail to refer to the speech made by the right hon. Member for Mid Sussex (Sir Nicholas Soames), which I think we would all agree was passionate and eloquent. If I may say so, it was worthy of his grandfather. It was one of the best speeches that I have heard during my time in the House.

Both my right hon. Friend the Member for Wolverhampton South East (Mr McFadden) and the hon. Member for The Wrekin (Mark Pritchard) made thoughtful and measured contributions, while my hon. Friend the Member for Wolverhampton North East (Emma Reynolds) made the patriotic, progressive case for remaining in the EU. Although I did not agree with his comments about an independent Scotland, the hon. Member for East Dunbartonshire (John Nicolson) spoke passionately about the formation of the EU and the dividend of peace. The hon. Member for West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine (Stuart Blair Donaldson) entertained us with a personal story about the practical everyday importance of the European health card to European citizens on holiday.

On this issue, Labour is united. The parliamentary Labour party, constituency Labour parties up and down the country, the Labour membership, and, according to the results of polling over time, the vast majority of Labour voters believe that Britain is safer, stronger and more prosperous as part of the European Union. That is our view, and that is what we will campaign on. The right hon. Member for Gordon (Alex Salmond) made it clear that Labour voters would be crucial in the referendum. I think that trade union members will be as well—and women.

A couple of weeks ago, I witnessed a conversation between a husband and wife. I observed the conversation, rather than taking part in it. The husband, who is a maths graduate, said, “I am interested in chaos theory, so I would be quite interested to see what would happen if we left the European Union, because I do not think it would look like what either side is saying it would look like.” His wife leaned across the table and said to him, “Don’t you dare! I have three kids, and this is about my children’s future.” I think that such conversations will happen increasingly as we move towards the referendum. Mothers and grandmothers will be making decisions that will have an impact on the future of this country, and I think that, in making those decisions, they will recognise that Britain has become a rich country as part of the European Union: the fifth biggest economy in the world, and the second biggest in the EU.

I am old enough to remember a time before our membership, when our national newspapers were fond of calling this great country the sick old man of Europe. If that was ever true, it is no longer true. The hon. Member for Harwich and North Essex (Mr Jenkin) asked, “If we are not in Schengen and we are not in the eurozone, what is the point of being in the EU?” Well, millions of jobs depend directly or indirectly upon our being a member of the EU. In my area of the north-east, 70% of the trade that we do is with the EU. In one city in the north-east we make more cars in one month than Italy does in a year. If we go to Teesport or the Port of Tyne, we see line after line of cars that are being exported from this country to the EU. As a country, nearly 50% of our trade is with the EU. We carried out £44 billion of trade last year, and we received £1.2 trillion of investment, a third of it directly from the EU.

[Mr Jackson]

Will the hon. Lady give way?

[Pat Glass]

No; the hon. Gentleman has had the floor quite a lot today.

A third of that trade is from the EU, but the remainder is from countries outside the EU solely because we are a gateway to the EU.

I have listened to the arguments from the outers who believe that the world is just lining up to enter into trade agreements with us once we leave the EU, but they should stop talking and listening to each other and start listening to what the rest of the world is telling us. I was in Sweden this week, where the Government told me that of course they want to continue trading with the UK if we leave, but only as part of a trade deal worked out with the EU. Such a deal would cost us heavily and require that we conform to the same rules and regulations as the rest of the Europe, including the free movement of people. The idea that we can magically walk away from the EU and yet retain advantageous trade deals that exist only because we are a member of the EU is, quite frankly, la-la land. At a time when we are facing increasing dangers from international terrorism, international crime, climate change and Russian expansionism, it is dangerous to think that it is a good idea to sit isolated on the edge of the biggest trading group in the world.

Labour will campaign in this referendum to remain in the EU not as it is, but as it could be. We want to see Europe deal with some of the issues that we cannot deal with alone—not just international terrorism and crime, war and migration across the world and climate change, but exploitative practices by employers who seek to undercut the wages of workers and international tax evasion by global companies. We cannot hope to deal with the Googles of this world alone; we can only do that with our partners.

Finally, I want to talk to the young people out there who may be listening to this debate. The EU was formed not as a political experiment or project, nor just as an economic market; its first purpose was to stop the regular slaughter that went on in western Europe every 30 years. I appreciate that the EU is not the only reason why my son is not lying in some cold grave outside Ypres or Thiepval as my great-grandfather and his brother are, but we now settle our differences around a negotiating table and not on a battlefield. I absolutely appreciate how difficult it is to get agreement between 28 countries, but surely it is far, far better than what went before. The peace dividend of the EU is huge and is as important today as it was in 1945. I want us to vote to remain in the EU, to ensure that the killing fields of 1914 to 1918 and 1939 to 1945 do not happen again to the young people of our country, today or at any time in the future.

Better Regulation

Pat Glass Excerpts

Monday 8th February 2016 General Committees

[Pat Glass (North West Durham) (Lab)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Ms Vaz. I have two brief, pragmatic questions.

The document sets out ways in which consultation can be improved and cites the 12-week rule as the appropriate framework. That mirrors the Cabinet Office guidance on consultation, to which the Government—certainly, in my experience—rarely conform in practice despite requiring others, such as local government, to adhere to it. Is it possible for the document to be more closely aligned to our Cabinet Office guidance? The Cabinet Office guidance is really good. It specifies not only that there is a 12-week timescale, but that it should not span times when it is more difficult to engage with the public such as the six to eight weeks of the summer holidays or, at least, the month of August when the Government go into standby mode.

My second question is about feedback. The one thing that really irritates people about consultation is when they go to the trouble of giving their views, but receive little or no feedback. Are there any plans to ask the EU to look at that in the document—I did not see any—to ensure that feedback is built into the consultation process?

[The Minister for Europe (Mr David Lidington)]

I am glad that the hon. Lady drew attention to the 12-week rule. Of course, that also ties in with what is in the draft reform texts from President Tusk apropos the suggested red card for national Parliaments. President Tusk is talking about having a 12-week period during which reasoned opinions can be tabled, rather than the eight-week deadline that is set out at the moment. That is a real benefit to national Parliaments. I have a lot of sympathy with what the hon. Lady says on both counts. One has to have a caveat in terms of the ability of EU institutions to act urgently when there is urgent need, perhaps most obviously on issues to do with plant or animal health and the need to act swiftly to prevent the spread of disease.

I sympathise with the hon. Lady’s wish that we try to align European arrangements more closely to Cabinet Office guidance, but the reality is, of course, that at EU level we are dealing with 28 different Governments and 28 different Parliaments, each of which has its own arrangements for domestic legislative processes and, indeed, for parliamentary recesses and holidays. For example, in parts of Europe, including Scotland, the summer holiday starts towards the end of June, and there are other places where people break a lot later. It is similar at Christmas and new year, when the duration of the holiday depends on whether western or Orthodox Christianity is the mainstream in a particular country. Although we have probably got a decent distance, I accept that there is further to go, but we must bear in mind such complicating factors.

[Pat Glass]

And on feedback?

[Mr Lidington]

On feedback, the text of the interinstitutional agreement contains a certain amount that goes in the direction that the hon. Lady suggests, particularly annex 1 to the agreement and the new arrangements for consultations in the preparation and drawing-up of delegated Acts—in other words, EU secondary legislation, the equivalent of statutory instruments here.

One of the benefits of the interinstitutional agreement that we now have is that there is a commitment to involve member states’ experts much more closely in the preparation of draft delegated Acts and in a timely manner. There is a specific requirement for the Commission to say openly, at the end of any meeting of member state experts, what conclusions it has drawn, how it will take those experts’ views into consideration and how it intends to proceed. Those conclusions will be recorded in the minutes of the meeting. There is a permissive provision in the rules for broader groups of stakeholders to be involved in the preparation and drawing-up of delegated Acts, so there are some measures in the text that take us very much in the direction that the hon. Lady suggests.

More generally, in terms of its better regulation proposals, the Commission has chosen to make more information available at an earlier stage. Stakeholders’ comments will therefore be more relevant and helpful because they will have access to the documents—the road maps and the inception impact assessments—that will give more detail about the policy initiative in question. Clearly, the proof of the pudding will be in the eating, but the proposals amount to a very useful step forward from the previous position.

--- Later in debate ---

[Pat Glass]

Better, more transparent regulation is difficult to argue against. We certainly do not want worse, more opaque or more cumbersome regulation. The documents attempt to set out a strategy to improve efficiency and therefore to deal with some of the more common criticisms made of the EU: that it is inefficient, bureaucratic and disengaged, and that it too often strays beyond the principles of subsidiarity and proportionality and hangs on too long to legislation that is no longer appropriate or required. Engaging with these proposals will hopefully provide a pathway towards addressing some of those criticisms, with agreed goals of efficiency, ongoing legislative renewal and review, and increased public consultation and awareness of the functions of the EU and its purposes and how citizens can participate in the formation of new legislation and the review of existing legislation.

The documents recognise the influence that member states have, in that, without their engagement, those good intentions cannot be delivered. We should welcome the fact that the EU, and in particular the Commission, has recognised that there are issues that need to be addressed and has set out a strategy for doing so. Good intentions are one thing, but the EU needs to will not only the ends, but the means to achieve its goals. It is important to recognise the difficulties it will face in bringing about these efficiencies. However, it is clear that there is an understanding that the future of the Union depends not only on its being relevant to ordinary people’s lives, but on ordinary people being able to engage and have some influence. In that sense, I think this is a major step in the right direction.