Oral Answers to Questions

Owen Thompson Excerpts

Monday 20th May 2024 Commons Chamber

[Grant Shapps]

The hon. Gentleman may not be aware that we have just provided the largest number of personnel to the largest NATO exercise in Europe since the cold war—Steadfast Defender, which is the largest exercise for 40 years. The United Kingdom can be very proud of the number of people we supplied on land, in the air and at sea. I have to make a fundamental point to those on the Opposition Front Bench: we cannot just wish ourselves to security; we have to spend 2.5% of GDP, and we have to set out the trajectory to get there. That is exactly what the Government have done.

[Owen Thompson (Midlothian) (SNP)]

12. What recent estimate he has made of the cost to the public purse of Trident renewal.

[The Secretary of State for Defence (Grant Shapps)]

The right hon. Gentleman asks about the Trident programme, but I am unclear about whether he means the Dreadnought submarine part of that. Of course, different parts of a programme often combine together, but the Dreadnoughts themselves will enter service in the early 2030s.

[Owen Thompson]

That was an interesting answer from the Secretary of State. The Government and the loyal Opposition have both pledged to commit to Trident renewal, investing obscene amounts of money that would be better used to improve our NHS, to help households with the cost of living and to support personnel or, indeed, veterans. According to the House of Commons Library briefing, Trident renewal is expected to cost £21 billion in 2022-23 prices, while one in three children is currently living in poverty. When will the Secretary of State agree that Trident renewal is an obscene waste of money, which could be put to much better uses?

[Grant Shapps]

I was recently at Faslane in Scotland, and I can tell the right hon. Gentleman that that is not what the people employed in the defence sector think about Trident. I can tell him something else: having stood at the Dispatch Box and been Defence Secretary, I know that the defence of this country is vastly supported by having our nuclear deterrent. In my view, every other issue that we face comes after the defence of this realm.

Oral Answers to Questions

Owen Thompson Excerpts

Monday 8th January 2024 Commons Chamber

[James Cartlidge]

I am more than happy to meet my hon. Friend.

[Owen Thompson (Midlothian) (SNP)]

The 2023 armed forces satisfaction survey confirmed that half of personnel do not believe that their family benefit from being a service family. The impact of service life on family and personal life remains a top factor behind the intention to leave, so what does the Secretary of State propose to do to listen to forces families and implement policies to make a difference?

[Grant Shapps]

It is very important that our service personnel feel that they are not only honoured when they go to war but comfortable at home. One of the big things I am doing is pressing forward with the review of armed service accommodation, including by providing £400 million to improve that accommodation, which will make the lives of service personnel better at home.

Defence Command Paper Refresh

Owen Thompson Excerpts

Tuesday 18th July 2023 Commons Chamber

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Rosie Winterton)]

I call the Scottish National party spokesperson.

[Owen Thompson (Midlothian) (SNP)]

I too thank the Secretary of State for advance sight of a draft statement, albeit that there were one or two additions on delivery. I also, perhaps pre-emptively, join in wishing him well in whatever comes next. Although I have not directly shadowed him, I certainly pass on those thoughts from my hon. Friend the Member for Angus (Dave Doogan), who has worked closely with him over a period now.

I will start on a positive note. I welcome a number of the points made. I very much welcome the fact that people are put front and centre. That is absolutely critical in anything we do in defence. People are what make it work, and if we are not supporting the men and women of the forces, what are we doing at all? There is probably that more we can do, even beyond this. While it will not surprise Ministers to hear me say that we need to support those serving, we also need to continue to look at what we are doing to support our veterans. I know that the Minister is working on that, but it is an area in which we need to try to do more.

I also welcome the recognition of some of the accommodation conditions. I welcome the fact that steps are being taken and matters looked at, but that needs to be moved forward at a greater pace.

I note that the Secretary of State says we are going to spend over £50 billion for the first time next year. I wonder whether he can tell us how much of that is simply down to inflation created by this Government. I am not trying to be awkward, but that is clearly quite a significant factor.

We have also heard of the ongoing and long-lasting issues around procurement, with reports showing that roughly £2 billion is wasted each year in failed equipment programmes and cancelled procurement contracts. Is the Ministry of Defence making the necessary reforms to make its procedures better, and will they deliver value for money?

Recruitment and retention issues have been flagged up; the Haythornthwaite review clearly highlighted those. Is the right hon. Gentleman confident that the steps being taken now on the skills agenda will be the necessary actions to address recruitment and retention issues?

Finally, the Haythornthwaite review highlighted cyber capability as a major issue. Is the right hon. Gentleman confident that the steps being taken and outlined today will do enough to deliver that capability in the way that we all want to see?

[Mr Wallace]

I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman, and grateful for his party’s support on Ukraine.

On the Haythornthwaite review and skills, right across Europe and the west we are seeing recruitment challenges in the military. I was with my New Zealand counterpart recently, and my Canadian counterpart, and they too have a challenge. The skills shortage across society is big, and it is no different in the armed forces, which is why we have to adapt rapidly and tackle some of the challenges.

On procurement, as I said, the figures have started to improve. Yes, there are challenges, and we could spend a whole day debating the reasons for those challenges. Complex procurement is not as straightforward as many people think, and the hon. Gentleman will know from the Scottish Government’s procurement issues that it is not straightforward to deal with. I certainly believe that if we invest in the people and are prepared to invest in continuity—if instead of having the senior responsible owners who help manage our projects here today and gone tomorrow, we ensure that they are there for the long term and link their incentives to success, and help them manage our projects—we will have a better chance of delivering better value for money.

Oral Answers to Questions

Owen Thompson Excerpts

Monday 26th June 2023 Commons Chamber

[Dr Murrison]

I am sorry that I was not in Devon on Saturday; I was next door in Cornwall, commemorating our armed forces, as my hon. Friend was.

There is a range of welfare support services in Devon. My hon. Friend will be aware of the regional welfare support operation there, which has expert welfare officers who can look after the needs of our wonderful veterans. Of course we can always do more, but I would cite, as I just have, Op Courage and, now, Op Fortitude, which I think will be of great assistance.

[Owen Thompson (Midlothian) (SNP)]

While we wait for the upcoming pay review, may I ask what assessment the Minister’s Department has made of relative poverty rates among our service personnel and, while they await a significant pay rise, what work it is doing with the Department for Work and Pensions to signpost colleagues to the benefits that they are eligible for?

[Dr Murrison]

The hon. Gentleman will be aware that, in addition to pay, things such as wraparound childcare and subsidised healthcare and dental care are available to members of our armed forces, as well as subsidised accommodation, the freezing of food charges and help with council tax—things that we have done in these difficult times to take the edge off the cost of living crisis. I hope he will welcome that.

Veterans UK

Owen Thompson Excerpts

Wednesday 21st June 2023 Westminster Hall

[Owen Thompson (Midlothian) (SNP)]

It is a pleasure to take part in this debate, Ms McVey, and I commend the hon. Member for Sheffield, Brightside and Hillsborough (Gill Furniss) for securing it. I echo her and other colleagues’ tributes and thanks to those who serve in our armed forces, and it is fitting that we are having this debate in Armed Forces Week. I declare an interest as vice chair of the all-party parliamentary group on veterans, which conducted the survey that has been referred to.

Many veterans have been broken by the Government’s failing system, which seems to hinder and hound veterans when it should help them. One told me that the process had broken them mentally to the point where their choice was to

“walk away or commit suicide.”

Another said:

“Veterans UK make it so difficult for all veterans and you feel like a criminal…there’s no compassion whatsoever.”

Another described the organisation as a “disgrace”, and yet another said the organisation seeks to

“ignore, obfuscate, delay and deny for as long as they can.”

All that is happening in a country that aimed to be the best place in the world for veterans by 2028. That is a boast by the UK Government who say that they want to transform services for veterans, understand our veterans’ community and recognise veterans’ contribution to society. I recognise that the Minister is taking steps to address some of these issues, but it is not happening quickly enough, and the Government are far from realising the lofty goal of creating a veterans’ paradise. Instead, many former servicemen and women are being plunged into hell as they struggle to make ends meet. Again, we heard from the hon. Member for Sheffield, Brightside and Hillsborough about veterans and serving personnel having to make use of food banks, and we should be doing all we can to support them.

There is a real sense that once someone is out of the barracks gate, the MOD washes its hands of them. Veterans UK, the MOD department administering support for veterans, has been described as lacking any empathy for veterans, and the APPG survey, which had more than 1,000 responses, found that only 6% felt that they had had a “good” or “very good” service. That feedback is unacceptable.

I secured a debate on this issue in March 2022, having had contact from constituents. At that time, I had written a letter to the then Minister, the hon. Member for Aldershot (Leo Docherty), who wrote back saying there was no issue. We had the debate in Parliament, Parliament agreed that there should be a review of Veterans UK, and he said it was not necessary. As there had been a votable motion, we followed up the debate and asked when the review was going to take place, and he said it was not necessary, so I am delighted that the new Minister is taking this issue forward. Off the back of the survey, we have got the review that we waited for, but it is very telling that it did not happen straight away—the Government had to be dragged kicking and screaming. Again, I pay tribute to the Minister present for making that happen, but his predecessors went out of their way to put up roadblocks.

The failures of the system and veterans’ sense of betrayal are in danger of creating an invisible epidemic of moral injury among retired military personnel. Moral injury refers to the experience of sustained and enduring negative moral emotions of guilt, shame, contempt and anger, which result from the betrayal, violation and suppression of deeply held or shared moral values. It comes back to the point made by the hon. Member for Meon Valley (Mrs Drummond) about the bad and mad—the sense that everyone is out to get them. Potentially morally injurious events include other people’s acts of omission or betrayal by a trusted person in a high-stakes situation. Such events threaten one’s deeply held beliefs and trust, and can cause feelings of shame and guilt. They can even lead to substance misuse, social withdrawal and self-destructive acts. Our veterans deserve so much better than that, and I commend the hon. Member for Aberconwy (Robin Millar) for the efforts he has made in moving forward his Bill on VAPCs.

It is interesting to note that the Scottish Government remain committed to doing all they can, within the powers they have, to provide support for veterans in Scotland, and the SNP is certainly committed to acting on the findings of the APPG survey. As a result of the survey, the UK Government have now announced that they will conduct

“a review of the role and scope of welfare provision for veterans, including by the Ministry of Defence under the Veterans UK banner”,

which I genuinely welcome. The Minister knows I am always impatient and always looking to the next thing. Having secured the review, we now look to when we can see the outcomes and when improvements can be implemented—I nudge him a little on that.

The review must have the scope and the necessary funding to change the situation. Mental health assessments undertaken while a veteran was serving in the forces should be considered by Veterans UK medical assessors when a claim is made under the war pensions or armed forces compensation scheme. There needs to be better signposting of information for veterans about war pensions and the armed forces compensation tribunal process. There also needs to be an increase in the maximum tariffs for mental health condition compensation payments. In some circumstances, an unmarried partner can qualify for a war pension, and we want the qualification criteria further broadened. There needs to be an alternative method to mitigate the impact on war widows who remarried or cohabited before the introduction of the pensions-for-life changes in 2015.

Veterans really need to be at the heart of the review, and I cannot let this debate pass without again flagging the nuclear test veterans. We welcome the fact that they were recognised with a medal, but we need to put in place a scheme to take account of their very serious injuries, and do more to support them, as they deal with their exposure to radiation.

The Scottish Government, even with their limited powers, have gone some way to showing commitment to support our veterans. Last year, the Scottish Government contributed £250,000 to the Unforgotten Forces consortium, supporting its work in improving the health, wellbeing and quality of life of older veterans in Scotland. They also increased the Scottish veterans fund pot to £500,000 per annum, to provide greater support for veterans and their families. The Scottish Government also funded 14 new projects across a range of organisations, including employment support from Walking With The Wounded and outdoor counselling from the Venture Trust. In my constituency, Midlothian’s SNP-led council was the first in Scotland to partner with Veterans Housing Scotland to provide additional accommodation for our veterans. I look forward to seeing that partnership continue successfully.

That list could go on. We have a very proud military history in Scotland. With the limited devolved powers available, we know we have a debt to these men and women. We know that freedom is not free. Sadly, the same cannot be said for the UK Government a lot of the time. In the words of one veteran, they seek to

“ignore, obfuscate, delay and deny for as long as they can.”

Our veterans deserve so much better.

Top Secret Document Leaks

Owen Thompson Excerpts

Tuesday 18th April 2023 Commons Chamber

[Owen Thompson (Midlothian) (SNP)]

I will be equally brief. There are clearly serious issues to consider here, and it is very important that we avoid speculation, particularly because, as I understand it, this case is sub judice in the US. No doubt our intelligence community is working hard with its partners to review the implications and will report to the ISC. I do not want to prejudge anything, but to echo the comments of the right hon. Member for New Forest East (Sir Julian Lewis), can the Minister confirm that he will work closely with the ISC to ensure that we are fully able to consider any outcomes of this investigation?

[James Heappey]

I note the concern of the hon. Gentleman and of my right hon. Friend the Member for New Forest East, the Chairman of the Intelligence and Security Committee. We will ensure that any matters that can be exposed to them relating to this are exposed.

Veterans Advisory and Pensions Committees Bill

Owen Thompson Excerpts

3rd reading
Friday 24th March 2023 Commons Chamber

[Owen Thompson (Midlothian) (SNP)]

I commend the work of the hon. Member for Aberconwy (Robin Millar) in bringing the Bill to Third Reading. As he knows, I tried to amend the Bill in Committee, to test the Committee’s mood and to see what more we can do.

I draw attention to my entry in the Register of Members’ Financial Interests. I am a vice-chair of the all-parry parliamentary group on veterans, which has undertaken a lot of work on the further support that is needed, particularly through Veterans UK. I saw this Bill as an opportunity to see what more we can do, but that takes nothing away from the Bill itself. The Bill’s aims are excellent, and it will go a long way towards further increasing the support available to veterans.

I thank the Minister for Veterans’ Affairs for meeting me and other members of the APPG, and for initiating a review of Veterans UK. Just over a year ago, I led a Backbench Business debate in which the House agreed that there should be a review. Unfortunately, we hit a few buffers along the way, and only since he took up his post have we seen the review move forward. I look forward to the review’s outcomes, and the passage of this Bill will enable him swiftly to implement any recommendations.

Just yesterday afternoon, the Justice and Veterans Minister, Keith Brown, led an excellent debate in the Scottish Parliament on employment support for veterans. The debate was also an opportunity to highlight the support being put in place by the Scottish Government, within the powers they have. We must all take every step we can to help veterans. On that note, I am proud of Midlothian Council in my constituency, as I understand it is the first housing organisation in Scotland to sign up as a partner of Veterans Housing Scotland. The first family has now been housed through that process.

We provide better support when we all work together. This Bill will go a long way in making a real difference to a lot of people. There is still more we can do, and I will continue to make that push. Veterans have been in touch with so many of us and, in my constituency, Garry McDermott first brought some of these issues to my attention. A wide range of members of our forces community are finding it challenging to address the situations in which they find themselves through no fault of their own. I think we are all on the same page in wanting to do everything we can.

I commend the work of the hon. Member for Aberconwy, and I look forward to the Bill being passed.

Veterans Advisory and Pensions Committees Bill

Owen Thompson Excerpts

Committee stage
Wednesday 15th March 2023 Public Bill Committees

[The Chair]

I welcome Committee members to this line-by-line consideration of the Veterans Advisory and Pensions Committees Bill, promoted by the hon. Member for Aberconwy. The order of batting is on the selection list in front of you. For clarity, I intend to call the amendments tabled by the hon. Member for Midlothian as one group and then move on to the stand part consideration of the clauses, which will be rather like a Second Reading debate.

Clause 1

Veterans advisory and pensions committees

[Owen Thompson (Midlothian) (SNP)]

I beg to move amendment 2, in clause 1, page 1, line 14, at end insert—

“(2A) The regulations must provide for the membership of committees to include at least one representative of a UK veterans’ association.”.

[The Chair]

With this it will be convenient to discuss the following:

Amendment 1, in clause 1, page 2, line 3, at end insert—

“(3A) The regulations may give the committees functions relating to—

(a) monitoring and holding to account Veterans UK in the discharge of its functions; and

(b) oversight and review of decisions made by Veterans UK.”.

Amendment 4, in clause 1, page 2, line 5, at end insert—

“(4A) The regulations must specify that the committees’ functions apply to British Armed Forces veterans who are resident overseas.”.

Amendment 3, in clause 1, page 2, line 21, after “education” insert “social care, employment, immigration”.

[Owen Thompson]

I do not intend to detain Members overly long. In moving the amendments, I am perhaps chancing my arm. They are not in any way meant to take anything away from the Bill, which is a very good Bill. I commend the hon. Member for Aberconwy for the work he has done to get it to this stage, and I look forward to its progressing further, hopefully with the support of all Members. However, I could not let such an opportunity pass without once again making efforts to try to address some of the issues that have arisen with Veterans UK over several years. For the record, I draw the Committee’s attention to the fact that I am a vice convener of the all-party parliamentary group for veterans, and we have undertaken a fair bit of work looking at the experiences of veterans with Veterans UK.

My intention is not to detract from the Bill, which does a lot of very good things and moves very much in the right direction. It raises awareness of vital services that are available to veterans, but there is an opportunity to do just that bit more.

There is an opportunity here for us to reshape the relationship between veterans advisory and pensions committees—VAPCs—and the Office for Veterans’ Affairs, giving that office the formal task, on a statutory footing, of holding Veterans UK to account, and providing a kind of ombudsman service. That is the purpose of amendment 1. At the moment—we have heard this from a number of Members in debates—Veterans UK, to a large extent, is judge and jury when it comes to deciding outcomes. The Bill could provide a potential mechanism for a third party to oversee those processes. I do not think that that asks too much in addition from the Bill.

Amendment 2 seeks to make provision about the membership of VAPCs. To my mind, it is a relatively straightforward proposal. Those who are part of veterans associations know our veterans better than anyone, so formally ensuring their inclusion in VAPCs is a sensible proposal. They may well be on those committees anyway, but let us just make sure that they form part of them.

On amendment 4, I have one particular question for the Minister. It was unclear from my reading of the Bill whether it covers any of our veterans who now live overseas. Amendment 4 seeks to make it absolutely clear that it does, because I do not feel that that clarity is there at the moment. I may have missed it—if I have, I welcome that. However, let us just be clear and make sure that all veterans can access the support that is available.

[Luke Pollard (Plymouth, Sutton and Devonport) (Lab/Co-op)]

Some clarity on both the territorial extent of the Bill and veterans living overseas would be helpful, including the Bill’s application to veterans living in overseas territories and Crown dependencies, as they sometimes sit in a different category from veterans living overseas. Does the hon. Member agree?

[Owen Thompson]

I absolutely agree. It is simply a matter of clarity. I do not think there is any intention to exclude anyone here, and I am not trying to suggest that there is. We need some clarity around that, to be sure.

Finally, on amendment 3, the Bill refers to covenant matters in relation to housing, education and health, but those are not the only things our veterans need help and support with. I hope that the measure might be expanded to include social care, employment, immigration and that sort of thing. I do not think it would be unnecessarily complicated to add those to the Bill, and I look forward to hearing the thoughts of the hon. Member for Aberconwy and the Minister on the proposals.

I am not here to detain anyone for longer than is necessary, and this is a good opportunity for us to continue the work that is clearly under way better to support our veterans. After all, they have given so much to support the nations of these isles, so it is not too much to ask that we do everything we can to support them, particularly when they need it most.

[Robin Millar (Aberconwy) (Con)]

It is an honour to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Gray, and I thank the hon. Member for Midlothian, whose work in this place on behalf of veterans I acknowledge. I recognise the points the hon. Gentleman has made, which came up frequently in discussions I have had about the Bill. They represent legitimate concerns.

The amendments would widen the scope of the committees in relation to their interaction with Veterans UK, the VAPC membership and territorial extent, and, effectively, add social care, employment and immigration to the definition of the armed forces covenant. The intention of my Bill is to recognise how committees have operated in practice in recent years and enable them to carry out additional functions in relation to other aspects of the services provided to veterans and their families by the Ministry of Defence. However, those are subtle but important distinctions.

Amendment 2 would prescribe that the regulations that establish the VAPCs provide that there must be at least one committee member who is a representative of a UK veterans association. There is no question about the importance of the relationship between VAPCs and the UK veterans associations at local, regional and national levels. However, those committee members will be appointed by the Minister for Defence People, Veterans and Service Families following an open and fair competition that involves the civil service appointment process. Representatives of UK veterans associations are therefore welcome to apply for membership of the committees through that process.

The wording of clause 1 allows flexibility in how the regulations are framed, including in relation to the composition of committee memberships, precisely because different compositions might be appropriate across the different regional committees. The amendment is well intentioned, but it would start to encroach on how the committees are constituted, which would prevent the very flexibility that the Bill aims to afford, and which is necessary for VAPCs to operate differently across different regions.

Amendment 1 would give VAPCs functions in relation to holding the Ministry of Defence’s Veterans UK service to account in the discharge of its functions, and give oversight and review of decisions made by Veterans UK. Again, I recognise those points from comments made by Members, veterans groups and veterans themselves in the weeks and months leading up to these debates, and the hon. Member for Midlothian is right to raise them. However, in addressing the amendment, it is useful to consider the recent all-party parliamentary group on veterans survey. Many issues raised by the veterans who responded related specifically to the armed forces compensation scheme, which is subject to quinquennial review. That review is due to report fully in the spring.

We must also look to the future. I am mindful of the fact that the Ministry of Defence and the Office for Veterans’ Affairs have commissioned a review of Government welfare provision for veterans, which includes services provided by the Ministry of Defence under the banner of Veterans UK. VAPCs will be within scope of that wider Government veterans review, which will be led by a senior civil servant, with the independent veterans’ adviser and other key stakeholders providing advice. The review will last approximately three months. A copy of the review and the Government’s response will be placed in the Library of the House.

The Bill will give the Secretary of State the powers to make changes that he—or she, if it is she by then—considers necessary based on recommendations deriving from those reviews and surveys. Without knowing the outcome of those reviews or any forthcoming recommendations they might make, it is difficult to see how the amendment, which would provide VAPCs with a function to review Veterans UK, could operate in practice.

Amendment 4 prescribes that regulations must specify that the committees’ functions apply to British armed forces veterans who are resident overseas. That point was, again, well made by the hon. Member for Midlothian and echoed by the hon. Member for Plymouth, Sutton and Devonport. However, the additional functions that my Bill gives to VAPCs relate to MOD services and armed forces covenant matters relating to veterans and their families. Therefore, the Bill specifically relates to services provided by the MOD to veterans and their families within the UK.

The Armed Forces Act 2021, which introduced the armed forces covenant duty, sets out that the focus of covenant legislation is access to UK-based public services and is therefore not applicable to those living overseas. The legislation refers to those

“ordinarily resident in the UK”.

Therefore, armed forces covenant matters, as defined in this Bill, must apply only within the UK.

Veterans who live overseas and are having issues with accessing public services in the countries they are resident in will find that those are best raised with the relevant UK embassy or high commission, which can advocate locally on behalf of the veteran. Again, that may be something worth raising with the Minister on another occasion.

Amendment 3 changes the definition of “armed forces covenant matters” to include issues relating to social care, employment and immigration. The definition of “armed forces covenant matters” in this Bill derives from the Armed Forces Act 2006 provisions on the armed forces covenant. When the Armed Forces Act 2021, which introduced the covenant duty, passed through the other place last year, it defined the duty as focusing on the three core functions of healthcare, education and housing. That reflects those already in statute, which are the most commonly raised areas and are where variation of service delivery across localities can inadvertently disadvantage the armed forces community, including the veterans and their families who are the focus of this Bill.

Again, the hon. Member for Midlothian has made a point worth raising. However. areas of concern relating to the armed forces covenant can be addressed as and when they arise, through the powers introduced in the Armed Forces Act 2021, which allow the Government to widen the scope of the covenant duty, subject to consultation or where there is evidence and support to suggest it would be beneficial, through secondary legislation. That is the process by which any amendments to the armed forces covenant duty might be made—not through this Bill.

The hon. Member may be aware that the Government have committed to reviewing the operation of the covenant duty during 2023. The review will encompass the operation of the new duty across the UK and will consider whether it would be beneficial to exercise any of the powers conferred by the 2021 Act to add to its scope. That will include specific consideration of whether central Government and the devolved Administrations could usefully be added. The Government will report on that review as part of their covenant annual report in 2023.

I hope that, following those assurances, the hon. Member for Midlothian will agree not to press his amendments.

--- Later in debate ---

[Dr Murrison]

That is an interesting point. Like me, the right hon. Gentleman will get correspondence all the time from people who live overseas. I do not know what his practice is, but mine is to engage with their inquiries and where it is clear that people have a strong connection with my area or have lived there for a reasonable period, I take those up on their behalf. I will not lay down here that VAPCs should do so, but it is more than likely that those issues would be covered in any event. I hope that is a comfort to the right hon. Gentleman.

I thank the hon. Member for Midlothian for tabling the amendments and I particularly thank my hon. Friend the Member for Aberconwy for addressing them. I hope the hon. Member for Midlothian is content.

[Owen Thompson]

I will not press any amendments to a vote today, but it was important to flag the issues. If we cannot amend this Bill, can we find a mechanism to facilitate some of the things that we were trying to achieve here? It is not about putting in place a wrecking mechanism; this is all about putting in extra support. I beg to ask leave to withdraw the amendment.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

Question proposed, That the clause stand part of the Bill.

[The Chair]

With this it will be convenient to discuss clauses 2 and 3 stand part.

Oral Answers to Questions

Owen Thompson Excerpts

Monday 13th March 2023 Commons Chamber

[Dr Murrison]

I have every sympathy with my hon. Friend’s point, and of course I will meet him. At the moment, for an adult to be eligible for funding for further education, they must ordinarily be resident in England on the first day of the first academic year of the course, and throughout the three years immediately preceding that date. The matter is primarily one for the Department for Education, as he will know, but I am happy to discuss it with him and my right hon. Friend the Minister for Veterans’ Affairs to see what we can do on this matter.

[Owen Thompson (Midlothian) (SNP)]

What efforts will be made through the recently announced review of veterans’ experiences? Following the excellent work of the survey carried out by the all-party parliamentary group on veterans, of which I am a vice-chair, what attention will be paid to the different experiences of veterans in the four nations to ensure the best possible outcomes? Sadly, they appear in many cases to have been overlooked and ignored.

[Dr Murrison]

I look forward to seeing the hon. Gentleman and his co-chairs later this week, I think, when we can discuss the matter in some depth. I am absolutely sympathetic to the notion that we need to do more for veterans, of course, which is one reason why I have instituted the review to which I have referred. We need to be consciously aware of the lived experience in each one of the four nations of this country.

Ukraine Update

Owen Thompson Excerpts

Thursday 26th January 2023 Commons Chamber

[Alex Chalk]

I welcome my right hon. Friend’s important contribution. Of course we accept that Putin represents a threat; we said that in the IR. In the actions Putin took in February last year, he made it crystal clear that the rhetoric he had been developing prior to that period had been put into action. It is clear to us that unless we address this threat now, through the support for Ukraine, which is fighting a just war of defence, it is likely that that threat will only grow. On land forces, my right hon. Friend is extremely well acquainted with the future soldier programme to rebuild those armed forces. On a matter of detail, the tank number is not 148—it is 227.

[Owen Thompson (Midlothian) (SNP)]

I, too, rise to welcome this statement and I thank the Minister for advance sight of it. I will largely echo the comments of others, because clearly all of us in this place stand united behind Ukraine and welcome the steps that have been taken. I do not think any of us can underestimate the steps taken yesterday with the decision by Germany and how difficult a decision that was for the Germans. That is most certainly worth noting. I also note that there are concerns about this next wave of mobilisation of Russian troops, the suggestion that the Russians have drafted 500,000 new recruits into their army and how quickly they may be able to mobilise.

Although I welcome the moves we have made, there is, obviously, concern about the time it is going to take to get troops up and running and feet on the ground. I welcome the Defence Secretary’s authorisation of the shipment of the 14 Challenger 2 tanks to Ukraine, although I note that Ukraine’s most senior military commander, General Valery Zaluzhny, said that it needs some 300 western tanks and about 600 western armoured fighting vehicles in order to make a difference. Will the Minister outline whether we will be sending any further Challenger 2 tanks, beyond this initial squadron? I note that in 2021 the Government announced that they were planning to retire about 80 tanks from the UK’s arsenal, so it is possible that some or all of those could be considered for repurposing for deployment to Ukraine, if they are fit enough for that? How is the Ministry of Defence assisting other NATO allies such as Spain that have not yet sent tanks but wish to do so?

Ukrainian forces will need time to learn how to operate this highly technical equipment, so how will UK armed forces collaborate with NATO counterparts to supply the necessary auxiliary equipment and training to make sure that Ukrainian forces can maximise that capability? Finally, what discussions has the Department had with allies to consider sending fighter jets to Ukraine in the coming weeks and months, so that we do everything we can to aid Ukraine’s struggle?

[Alex Chalk]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for his remarks. He raises a number of very important issues. May I reiterate the point about unity across the House? He has demonstrated that, and I thank him for it.

The hon. Gentleman raised an important point at the beginning about the time taken to mobilise. No apology is made for that, because, unless the time is taken to properly train the tank crews and also those who support the equipment, we will not achieve the impact that we all want to see. One thing that I am encouraged by, and I am pleased to be able to update the House about, is the extent to which we will be training those maintenance crews on a five-week course, entirely separate from the tank crews themselves, to provide the kind of deep maintenance that is needed, by which I mean if a gearbox or wheel needs to be replaced. We will be supplying not just the tanks, but the supplies and the training to ensure that those vehicles can remain on the road. The tank crews themselves will have a level of maintenance training, but there will be a deep maintenance training support package as well. In addition, there will be the ability to reach back to the UK. In other words, they will be able to communicate to the UK, “Look, this is an issue with this tank. Can you support us?” We will then provide that technical knowhow remotely.

The hon. Gentleman talked about the number of tanks. The thing that is so important, and that the Secretary of State was so clear about in his remarks in the House, is that the UK has a leadership role to catalyse other nations. That is what we intended to do and—I hope it is fair to say—that is what we have delivered. The number of tanks overall is now over 70. Two weeks ago it was zero, so we are making steps in the right direction.

The hon. Gentleman asked about other countries—Spain, for example. It is of course a matter for Spain, but I hope that it will take comfort from the fact that the United Kingdom and, indeed, Germany, as he rightly pointed out, have reached this decision, and it may be that other nations will see the way to make similar decisions. Ultimately, though, it is a matter for those other countries.

Let me address the point about armoured fighting vehicles—a point that is sometimes lost. This nation alone has donated more than 200 armoured fighting vehicles—the so-called dogs of war that we are familiar with from Afghanistan. These are big, heavy fighting vehicles with weapons capabilities that provide assistance on the battlefield.

On the issue of tanks overall, the Secretary of State has been clear that 40 tanks have been provided, which means that those existing hulls that were at low readiness will be brought forward to high readiness. That is about ensuring that our overall fleet—the fleet that remains—is more lethal and more ready for action.

As for fighters, we will just have to wait and see. This is an important step at the moment. It is one that we think has a way to go, especially as other nations will perhaps see their way forward as well.