Oral Answers to Questions

Mike Penning Excerpts

Monday 23rd June 2014 Commons Chamber

[Rosie Cooper (West Lancashire) (Lab)]

1. What steps he is taking to improve the administration of the work capability assessment.

[The Minister of State, Department for Work and Pensions (Mike Penning)]

I am committed to continually improving the administration of the work capability assessment. I am pleased to say that since the announcement in the House during our last Question Time, the backlog has fallen from 766,000 to 712,000.

[Rosie Cooper]

On 10 June, the Minister admitted to the Select Committee that 712,000 work capability assessments were outstanding. That number includes 234 recipients of incapacity benefit who are to be assessed for employment and support allowance, and 84,000 incapacity benefit recipients who have not yet been migrated. My constituents would like to know who is at fault, Atos or the Minister.

[Mike Penning]

When the coalition Government came to office, the WCA backlog did not suddenly happen; the problem already existed. However, we take responsibility for what we are doing. [Interruption.] There is no point in Labour Members’ shouting us down. They have short memories, but their backlog existed. If they do not wish to admit that, perhaps we can see the documents, which will enable us to know the facts. We have carried out 1 million incapacity benefit assessments, and 700,000 people are currently being helped into work or are looking for work.

[Mr Julian Brazier (Canterbury) (Con)]

Does my right hon. Friend agree that it would have been cynical if we had simply turned our back on all the existing claimants and not considered them too? That, of course, has been the cause of much of the backlog.

[Mike Penning]

I entirely agree. If we had not assessed those 1 million incapacity benefit recipients, those people would have been left, as the Labour party left them for 13 years. At least they now have an opportunity to look for work, and those who are not capable of going to work, or seeking work, are receiving the assistance that they require.

[Pat Glass (North West Durham) (Lab)]

22. Leaked memos reported by the BBC on Friday show that ESA is one of the largest fiscal risks that the Government currently face. What is the Minister going to do about that?

[Mike Penning]

No Government of any description talk about leaked documents, but I can say that the information in that document was not new. I had released most of it earlier, and I believe that the BBC worked up the story for its own benefit.

[Charlie Elphicke (Dover) (Con)]

The Minister said that the WCA problems were long-standing. Is there a process whereby the last Government’s figures could be made available to the House? Who entered into the Atos contract?

[Mike Penning]

There is no doubt that the Atos contract was taken out by the last Labour Administration. I would love to know exactly what the backlog was, but, as an incoming Minister, I am not allowed to see the figures. Perhaps Her Majesty’s Opposition would be happy to release them. If those documents were published, we would all know exactly what the backlog was before the present Administration came to power.

[Dame Anne Begg (Aberdeen South) (Lab)]

The backlog does not involve only ESA. There are also huge backlogs of decisions relating to personal independence payments and universal credit. Only 7,000 universal credit claimants have been dealt with, although at this stage the number should be about 1 million. In comparison with figures such as those, the passport fiasco pales into insignificance. Does the Minister not think that his Department has bitten off far more than it can chew?

[Mike Penning]

No, I do not. As the Chair of the Select Committee knows, there is no universal credit backlog, so her statement about that is not particularly helpful. I think that we need to concentrate on ensuring that benefits go to the people who deserve them. That is what is most important.

[Andrew Bridgen (North West Leicestershire) (Con)]

Can the Minister confirm that Atos Healthcare will not receive one penny of compensation from the taxpayer for the early termination of its contract?

[Mike Penning]

There is no doubt that the contract was taken out by the last Labour Administration. Her Majesty’s Opposition called for me to sack Atos. If we had done so, we would have had to pay it a huge amount of compensation, but, instead, it will pay substantial damages to the Government when the contract is terminated.

[Clive Efford (Eltham) (Lab)]

20. Judge Robert Martin has said that Her Majesty’s Courts and Tribunals Service has seen a huge reduction in the number of work capability assessment appeals, not because of the quality of decisions, but because of the huge backlog and the quality of the service that is being provided.

[Mike Penning]

I am afraid that that is factually incorrect. I read Judge Martin’s comments, and I do not think that that is quite what he said. There has been a reduction of more than 80% in the number of people who are appealing. That is because better decisions are being made, which is right and proper for everyone.

[Stephen Timms (East Ham) (Lab)]

It is high time that Ministers took responsibility for their failings. It was their decision, after the election, to migrate all recipients of incapacity benefit to employment and support allowance. That was the decision that triggered the delays and backlogs about which we have heard. Now, the memos that were leaked last week have revealed that ESA

“is not delivering more positive outcomes for claimants”

than incapacity benefit did, and the Work programme has proved hopeless, with a 94% failure rate. How long will Ministers allow this shambles to continue?

[Mike Penning]

Clearly Her Majesty’s Opposition have a short memory as to what happened when they were in government. This problem started under Labour, Atos was in place under Labour—[Interruption.] Opposition Front Benchers are saying “No, not us”; then they should release the documentation that proves what the backlog was before the last election.

[Ann McKechin (Glasgow North) (Lab)]

2. What steps he is taking to improve the claims and decision-making process for personal independence payments.

[Nick Smith (Blaenau Gwent) (Lab)]

16. What steps he is taking to improve the claims and decision-making process for personal independence payments.

[The Minister of State, Department for Work and Pensions (Mike Penning)]

Yet again I am committed to improving our performance and that of our contract providers. I want to make sure the right decisions are made as soon as possible. With that in mind, I have looked, particularly working with Macmillan, at how we can reduce waiting times for terminally ill people waiting for PIP. That stood at 28 days when I first met the Work and Pensions Committee, and I said that was unacceptable. It is inside 10 days now, and I want it to become lower.

[Ann McKechin]

As the Minister of State is aware, by his own Department’s statistics it will take 42 years to clear the current backlog. In the meantime people are running out money, and they are becoming more stressed and more ill as a result of his Department’s failure to get a grip on a payment which his Government introduced. When will the backlogs be reduced to a decent level, as people have a right to entitlements in this country?

[Mike Penning]

It is really important that we get the decisions right and that the right people get those payments. I said before the Select Committee that I promise to do that within my own Department’s administration, and we are addressing that. There was a real performance issue as to how many people were coming through the schemes. I am addressing that now with the providers, and it will improve, and not in the length of time the hon. Lady mentions, which is scaremongering.

[Fiona O'Donnell]

An awareness campaign last week by the MND Association and MND Scotland informed us that about half of people diagnosed with motor neurone disease die before 14 months. They do not fit into the Minister’s definition of “terminally ill”, so how long does he think those people should wait for their claim to be assessed?

[Mike Penning]

Now I have addressed the issue of the terminally ill, we are particularly addressing progressive illnesses. We want to look at that very quickly. As soon as we can get that situation addressed, I will come before this House and say so, but the priority must be that the people who need it get it, and the people who do not need it, do not get it.

[Nick Smith]

Some Blaenau Gwent constituents have waited months and months for assessment. Why did the Minister’s Department not properly pilot what has become this fiasco?

[Mike Penning]

It is interesting that yet again a Labour Member uses the word “fiasco”, and I know the Public Accounts Committee Chairman, the right hon. Member for Barking (Margaret Hodge), made a similar comment. It was not actually in the PAC report, however, so this was a made-up comment that was not in the report. [Interruption.] Well, it was not in the report, and how on earth can we be talking about something that was not in the report? At the end of the day, we need to make sure we address this situation. I have admitted that the waiting time is too long, and we will get it down. We will do something about it; the previous Administration did not do so.

[Duncan Hames (Chippenham) (LD)]

I was recently able to inform a constituent that they were about to receive a cheque for over £5,000—welcome news until we realise it is an arrears payment for a personal independence payment claim submitted some 300 days earlier. The Minister tells us he is addressing the matter; what is he doing to stop disabled people being out of pocket by so much for so long?

[Mike Penning]

What we are doing is making sure we speed up the process on our side and the contractors doing the assessments speed up their side. As I have said before, if necessary there will be a cash incentive for them to make sure that they deliver, which will be paid only when they deliver faster.

[Miss Anne McIntosh (Thirsk and Malton) (Con)]

I congratulate my right hon. Friend on reducing the time taken to handle these claims, but what is he doing to reduce the time taken for the appeals mechanism procedure, so that that part can be speeded up as well?

[Mike Penning]

The appeals process is a matter for my colleagues at the Ministry of Justice, and I intend to write to them today, but fewer people are going to appeal, particularly on PIP—it is much lower than predicted—and there has been more than an 80% reduction on work capability assessment. There is more to be done, but if the judges have less work to do on appeals, I will be very happy about that.

[Nigel Mills (Amber Valley) (Con)]

I also welcome the improvement in the process. What lessons have the Government learned for rolling out other new assessment schemes, perhaps including a replacement for Atos in respect of WCA?

[Mike Penning]

One of the things we will look at very carefully is making sure that the contract bids are judged not just on the lowest price, but on whether the contractor can produce the capacity that is required. That is exactly what we are doing; when we release a new contract, we look at whether the contractor has the capacity and the skills to produce quality decisions.

[Mr Frank Field (Birkenhead) (Lab)]

What is the Government’s target for how long people will have to wait for these benefits by the time of the next general election? As the Minister tries to restore order from this chaos, will he be in a position soon to tell those in the queue how much longer they will have to wait?

[Mike Penning]

One of the things we are trying to do is communicate much better with people who are waiting, which is the most important thing we can do. What we do not want to do is build up promises, so that people think they will be assessed quicker than they will be. On PIP in particular, we will make sure that the providers are doing the job we are asking them to do, and that we are acting as fast as we can and taking the correct decisions. On the first point, I cannot give a time scale at this time, and it would be wrong for any Minister to stand before the House and do so.

[Kate Green (Stretford and Urmston) (Lab)]

The Government did not bother to pilot PIP properly, Atos made misleading statements in its bid, Ministers have presided over a 42-year backlog in cases, and each decision costs £1,500—more than the benefit of some £1,120 that many receive. Reassessments have had to be postponed while sick and disabled people wait for a decision, including cancer patients, who according to Macmillan are experiencing anxiety, financial worries and worsening health. Is it not time that the Minister acknowledged that it is another catalogue of DWP chaos and that the £1 billion savings promised by 2015 will not be achieved, while sick and disabled people are living with the worry and hardship that he has caused?

[Mike Penning]

I do not accept many of the points that the hon. Lady makes, but what I do accept is that it is unacceptable for people who are in desperate need to wait, which is why I acted with Macmillan really fast to bring the time down from 28 days to inside 10 days for people with terminal illness. We are now looking at the other cases and working with as many of the charity and other groups as we can to make sure that we get the figure down. If they work with us, we can work on this together. The Opposition keep moaning about the policy, but the previous Administration left people on the disability living allowance for years, with only 7% of them ever having a face-to-face assessment. That was an appalling situation.

[Mel Stride (Central Devon) (Con)]

3. What assessment he has made of recent trends in employment figures.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Philip Hollobone (Kettering) (Con)]

11. If he will take steps to reduce (a) the number of benefit claimants who appeal against decisions and (b) the length of time it takes to have such appeals heard.

[The Minister of State, Department for Work and Pensions (Mike Penning)]

Appeals on all benefit decisions have dropped by 79% in the first quarter of this year compared with the same period last year. The introduction of mandatory reconsideration and the decision assurance call is having a positive impact.

[Mr Hollobone]

My right hon. Friend will be as concerned as I am that some of the waits for first-tier tribunal appeal hearings for Kettering constituents have been up to 40 weeks, which is more than twice the national average. What success is he having with the Ministry of Justice to get the appeal waiting times down?

[Mike Penning]

One of the first things we can do to get appeal waiting times down is to have fewer people needing to appeal. I accept that it is taking too long in Kettering and perhaps in other parts of the country. That is for another Department, but I will contact it today.

[Ian Lucas (Wrexham) (Lab)]

A constituent of mine has had an application for the personal independence payment refused—a decision that I regard as perverse. I wrote to the Minister personally to draw to his attention how bad the decision was, but received a reply from a civil servant. I wrote to the Minister because I thought he was interested in creating an efficient system. Will he please do me the courtesy of replying to my letter and addressing his mind to the case of my vulnerable constituent, who has been so badly affected?

[Mike Penning]

I have a personal policy that I write to all Members of Parliament—from both Houses—if they write to me. If a civil servant wrote back, that is wrong. I will reply and perhaps the hon. Gentleman would like to come to see me at his leisure to discuss his constituent’s case.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Robert Buckland (South Swindon) (Con)]

T5. This morning I was with the staff and students of Farleigh college of further education in my constituency, which offers excellent education and training opportunities to young people with autism and other complex conditions. What more can my right hon. Friend do to ensure that we reach the goal of full employment by ensuring that increased opportunities exist for young people with learning disabilities and autism?

[The Minister of State, Department for Work and Pensions (Mike Penning)]

I think the whole House would agree that we need to give everyone the opportunity to live their dreams and have their aspirations, and that is exactly what this Government want to do. I would love to come and see the scheme that my hon. Friend is talking about, so that I can see for myself what it is delivering.

[Nic Dakin (Scunthorpe) (Lab)]

T2. In last week’s Westminster Hall debate, the Minister said of the closure of the independent living fund that “there really should not be concern.”—[Official Report, 18 June 2014; Vol. 582, c. 91WH.] How will he ensure that the concern being expressed by current ILF recipients that they will lose their independence is unfounded?

[Mike Penning]

I also said during that Westminster Hall debate that, for nearly three years, new recipients of ILF have been dealt with by local authorities. There have not been any major problems. We are confident that this will roll out correctly and we intend to roll it out as soon as possible.

[Mr Brooks Newmark (Braintree) (Con)]

T7. Unemployment in Braintree between May 2010 and May 2014 has dropped from 3.4% to 2%, and youth unemployment in that same period has dropped from 6.3% to 3.8%. There remains a challenge, however, in that the unemployment rate is not falling as fast for young women as it is for young men. What are the Government’s policies doing to help young women to get back into work?

--- Later in debate ---

[Tracey Crouch (Chatham and Aylesford) (Con)]

Will the Minister provide the House with an update on the implementation and delivery of the mesothelioma compensation payment scheme?

[Mike Penning]

I am really proud that the coalition Government have introduced this new scheme. It is now fully funded and it is rolling out on time. Payments will be made on time to the people who need those funds so much, through no fault of their own, and we are all very proud of that.

[Mrs Emma Lewell-Buck (South Shields) (Lab)]

T4. My local citizens advice bureau has been contacted by a young single woman who has been hit by the bedroom tax. After paying her rent and utility bills, she has just 84p a day left to spend on food and toiletries. With eight households for each available one-bedroom property in my area, moving is simply not an option. How can the Secretary of State continue to try to justify a policy that results in such extreme poverty?

--- Later in debate ---

[Heidi Alexander (Lewisham East) (Lab)]

T9. Last week I met a constituent who received her husband’s personal independence payment only after he had passed away. Will the Minister guarantee that no one else will suffer that deeply distressing situation in the future?

[Mike Penning]

Of course I cannot guarantee that, but we need to do everything we possibly can on this. Perhaps the hon. Lady will pass on our thoughts to her constituent for her loss. It is very important that we get the scheme to run faster, but the quality needs to be right. I am very sad when that sort of thing happens, but I cannot possibly guarantee to the House that it will not happen again. We just have to make sure that it does not happen very often.

[Mr David Winnick (Walsall North) (Lab)]

I have been here since the beginning of Question Time and may I tell the Secretary of State that I have been sickened—there is no other way to describe my feelings—by his complacent indifference to the agonising hardship suffered by the most vulnerable in our society? He should be ashamed of the policies he is pursuing.

--- Later in debate ---

[Dr Eilidh Whiteford (Banff and Buchan) (SNP)]

I have a number of very sick constituents who have been pushed into severe financial hardship as a result of unacceptable delays in the PIP process. Some of them are now dependent on food banks. I listened carefully to the Minister earlier, but will he set out a timetable for clearing the backlog for all applicants, not just the terminally ill? What interim support will he offer to those having to wait more than 28 days?

[Mike Penning]

I repeat that it is taking too long. I accept that and am determined to get the time down. We are working with the providers to ensure that we get it down. I will look into individual cases if the hon. Lady wants to bring them to me, but we are doing everything we possibly can. I would rather see people being assessed than left without any assessment, as the previous Administration did, or with paper-based assessments.

[Andrew Gwynne (Denton and Reddish) (Lab)]

Underlying the overly positive spin that Ministers have put on the employment figures is the fact that for the first time ever the majority of families living below the poverty line are in work. What are the Government going to do to make sure that work is always a route out of poverty?