Space Industry

Debate between Mark Garnier and Jim Shannon

Wednesday 24th April 2024 Westminster Hall

[Mark Garnier (Wyre Forest) (Con)]

I beg to move,

That this House has considered the UK space industry.

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mrs Murray, and a delight for me to talk about this extraordinarily thriving industry right here in the UK.

As chair of the all-party parliamentary group for space, I get the opportunity to see at first hand what is happening in the UK. The group has recently put on four exhibitions, taking over the Attlee Suite here in Parliament to highlight various aspects of our thriving space industry. We started last year with launch and propulsion, followed by current applications that use space, and we have finished with two sessions on the future of space and the important issue of space sustainability. The exhibitions were well attended by parliamentarians, civil servants and industry experts, and over the four events, more than 40 space companies had the chance to highlight their skills and products to attendees. The exhibitions were supported by ADS and UKspace, and my thanks go to the teams that helped both with those events and in supporting the all-party parliamentary group.

Such drop-by exhibitions serve to highlight that the UK space industry is thriving, active and innovative. Indeed, it is the leader in smart thinking for the sustainability of space and how we will preserve it for future generations. Smart thinking on things such as ESG —environmental, social and governance—kitemarking for UK-licensed space flights, and the wider discussions of space sustainability bonds mean that the UK is a thought leader that will ensure that the ultimate infinity of space is not lost to us because of an impenetrable cloud of space debris orbiting the earth.

At this point, I should declare that my fascination with the sector goes so far that I take an interest in specific companies and organisations, and I refer hon. Members to my entry in the Register of Members’ Financial Interests. I will, of course, avoid speaking about those interests that are financial this afternoon, for important reasons.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

I commend the hon. Gentleman for introducing the debate. I spoke to him beforehand and I am keen to ensure that whenever this process moves forward on the engineering side, we in Northern Ireland can benefit. Does he agree that, with engineering the largest subsector in Northern Ireland and especially in the field of aerospace, skill and capacity levels are high and therefore ripe for further investment? Does he further agree that Northern Ireland and the United Kingdom must be globally promoted as being shovel ready or, to use the terminology, rocket ready for greater investment?

[Mark Garnier]

The hon. Gentleman is absolutely right and I will mention Belfast later. Queen’s University Belfast has recently hosted some incredibly important energy-beaming experiments, which will completely open up the possibility for the UK to be world leaders in space-based solar power. I will talk a little more about that later.

My interest in space also derives from my unachieved desire to be an aeronautical engineer. My career in the City of London and an interest in economics have given me the insight to recognise that the space industry is the epitome of what Adam Smith talked about in his 1776 book “The Wealth of Nations”. The space industry epitomises a mature economy’s desire to seek ever more productive activities and the UK is doing particularly well in that area.

The UK space sector as a whole has a turnover of some £17.5 billion per annum, employing nearly 50,000 people, 2,300 of whom are apprentices.

Tackling Rogue Builders

Debate between Mark Garnier and Jim Shannon

Tuesday 13th June 2023 Westminster Hall

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

I commend the hon. Member for introducing the debate. He is right: most builders are good workmen and do a grand job. That is the case in my constituency, but we also have cases of shoddy workmanship that go unchallenged as people cannot afford costly litigation on small claims, and feel unable to represent themselves. Does he agree that perhaps there should be a role for local authorities—I know that it is different in Northern Ireland than on the UK mainland—to take on the cases of people who have had shoddy workmanship and do not have the wherewithal to chase the case themselves?

[Mark Garnier]

I am grateful for the intervention. To a certain extent, local authorities can step in where builders fail to meet building standards, but the problem is that that does not work. That is what I am worried about. As I unwind my speech, the hon. Member will be able to understand a little of what I am proposing, which may be a solution to the problems in his constituency.

Of course, highly qualified and professional firms are not the target of any control that we may want to bring in, but a lot of those very good quality firms would benefit from a simple regime that demonstrates beyond any doubt that a builder firm is legitimate and that the workers within it are both honest and qualified. Repeated surveys from organisations within the sector reinforce that consumers are put off by stories of rogue builders. The FMB estimated a few years ago that up to £3 billion a year is wiped off building activity by consumers fearful of falling victims to rogues.

More recently, the HomeOwners Alliance conducted a survey of consumer worries: 79% of those surveyed reported obstacles in the way of their project, including 42% reporting that it was difficult to find a reliable builder, 29% a lack of available builders, and 15% a lack of confidence in the system. The problem that I am trying to address, working with the FMB, is that of rogue builders who prey on clients who are wholly inexperienced in this area. The vast majority of people who employ a builder have no idea how to manage them. Most of us will only infrequently need the work of a builder or tradesman.

Birmingham Commonwealth Games and Shooting

Debate between Mark Garnier and Jim Shannon

Wednesday 21st March 2018 Commons Chamber

[Jim Shannon]

I thank my hon. Friend for bringing that up. I will not go far down memory lane, because I go down memory lane further than most, but the fact is that my introduction to shooting and target sports was as a young boy of about 10 years old in the ’60s—the late ’60s, I have to say, because that gives me a couple of extra years. My cousin Kenneth Smyth—hon. Friends will know that he was murdered by the IRA—was always an inspiration to me, and I particularly value the time that he spent with us as young boys, introducing us to shooting. Whenever we went down to our grandmother’s and ultimately to meet Kenneth, the highlight of that holiday for us was the .22 rifle and shooting at targets down on the farm. In those days, restrictions were a lot less rigorous than they are today, and the fact was that we were able to do that. That was our introduction to the sport. My hon. Friend said that he was introduced to it as a 12-year-old at Comber rifle club. That is very important as well.

[Mark Garnier (Wyre Forest) (Con)]

May I also say how much I enjoy the opportunity of being able to intervene back on the hon. Gentleman after all the times that he has intervened on me? He raises a really interesting point about youngsters shooting. A lot of people turn around and say, “Isn’t this abhorrent? You can’t have youngsters shooting,” but actually, I was taught how to shoot at a very early age. One of the great things about teaching children how to shoot is that they learn an incredible amount of discipline and an incredible amount of respect for each other and for sport. We end up with very responsible young adults coming out as a result of all the discipline and camaraderie that we get around shooting sports.

--- Later in debate ---

[Jim Shannon]

I thank the right hon. Gentleman for making that point. As you know, Madam Deputy Speaker, I am always very wary about what I say, and I would rather put the facts of the case and let the right hon. Gentleman draw his own conclusions, but yes, some people would say that that is something that may be lingering in the background. When the Commonwealth games took place in Manchester, Bisley was used as a location. Why not use it this time, given that it is closer to Birmingham than to Manchester? That seems perfectly logical to me.

I am very pleased that Birmingham’s bid was successful, and, indeed, I supported it. By extension, it has benefited the whole United Kingdom. The Commonwealth games should benefit everyone, not just those in one particular place. To host games of this calibre is a feather in our cap, and well worth the money that it entails. I welcome Birmingham’s contribution and its efforts. In normal circumstances, however, the decision to award the games to a host city and a Commonwealth games association is made at a CGF general assembly, even when there is only one bidder. That usually takes place some seven years before the games.

Following the late withdrawal of South Africa, the CGF executive dealt directly with the decision to find a replacement, which meant that Birmingham’s bid and, significantly, its proposed sports programme were not subject to debate by the 72 member nations of the CGF that would be normal practice. I suggest that in this case normal practice was not followed and that it should have been. What I am asking, in so far as it is within the remit of the Minister’s responsibilities, is for that normal procedure to be followed.

[Mark Garnier]

I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for giving way again; he is being incredibly generous with his time.

I must declare an interest as a member of the National Rifle Association and the Rifle Club at Bisley. It seems to me that it would be perfectly simple for the shooting sports to take place at the National Shooting Centre there, not only because it is available but because that would provide a very good income for the National Rifle Association. Is the hon. Gentleman surprised as I am that the association is not pushing as hard as it can to ensure that we have shooting sports in the Commonwealth games? If it is not pushing as hard as it can, why not?

[Jim Shannon]

That question is in my mind as well. Why not? I believe that there are now many thousands of signatures on the petition. I hope that the CGF is listening to the grassroots, because they are saying, “Are we all swimmers? Are we all runners? Some of us are shooters, and we will not feature in the Commonwealth games.” I will not, certainly—but these are our games, and we want to see opportunities for all disciplines to feature there. The hon. Gentleman is absolutely right: that should happen, and the grassroots support for it is very clear.

--- Later in debate ---

[Jim Shannon]

When my hon. Friend the Member for North Antrim (Ian Paisley) and I were elected in 2010 we joined the House of Commons rifle club; we really enjoyed getting the badge, to tell the truth, because we wanted to show everybody we were in it. We particularly enjoyed going down and shooting at lunchtimes, and I suspect that many other Members have also enjoyed those lunchtime engagements.

As I have said, in the Manchester games Bisley was a venue, and it can be again. Shooting is a traditional Commonwealth sport, and for many of the smaller Commonwealth nations shooting sports are among the very few sports in the programme that they can realistically select athletes for and therefore play a part in the games. Some of the countries that excel at shooting sports perhaps do not excel at any other sports, and I will name some of them, as I think that is important: Jersey, Gibraltar, the Isle of Man, Guyana, Norfolk Island and the Falkland Islands. Shooting sports are crucial to their meaningful participation in the games and to their way of life as well.

For larger nations such as India, Malaysia and Australia, the absence of shooting sports has a major impact on their team size and their medal winning. Closer to home, the teams of England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland all regularly secure a significant medal haul from the sport. Information I received from the Countryside Alliance states:

“Shooting contributed 15 medals to England’s medal tally at the 2014 Commonwealth Games in Glasgow, and England has won a total of 168 shooting medals in all previous Commonwealth Games—more than any other competing nation and over 20 per cent of the medals available.”

That is even more than Northern Ireland!

[Mark Garnier]

Further to the comments made by my right hon. Friend the Member for New Forest East (Dr Lewis), the hon. Gentleman is very welcome to come along to the match between the House of Commons and the House of Lords. I am the captain of our team.

The hon. Gentleman has mentioned the contribution of the smaller Commonwealth countries, but he has missed an important point about shooting sports. We need to remember that this is the one sport in which men and women compete equally against each other. We have just had International Women’s Day, and it is really important that we should not be getting rid of sports in which there is no gender discrimination. We should be celebrating this sport.

[Jim Shannon]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for that intervention.

The 2018 Commonwealth games in the Gold Coast, Australia, which were mentioned earlier, will include four shooting disciplines: full bore, pistol, rifle and shotgun. The shooting programme will be held at the Belmont shooting centre in Brisbane, where 20 athletes from Team England—the mother country—will compete in 19 separate events. There needs to be a commitment not only for Birmingham in 2022; I am seeking a commitment from the Commonwealth Games Federation to include shooting in the 2026 games. We need to look forward and ensure that what has happened this time does not happen again. The Minister referred to David Calvert in her intervention. He will shortly be competing in Brisbane, and my hon. Friend the Member for Belfast East (Gavin Robinson) was inspired by him many years ago. I am sure that many other young boys and girls were inspired by him as well. That is why I am raising this issue today.

Two key international bodies oversee the shooting sports that appear in the Commonwealth games: the International Shooting Sport Federation and the International Confederation of Fullbore Rifle Associations. Both have indicated a willingness to work with the CGF to find a solution to keep shooting sports in the games and on the 2022 programme. Both are willing to do more than most, and representatives met the CGF president in February this year. This is about finding solutions. When people come to me with problems, it is not about the problem; it is about the solution. We bring the issue to the Floor of the House to seek a solution, and we hope that that solution will be forthcoming. At Olympic level, the ISSF represents a category C sport, recognising its growing and significant contribution to the Olympic ideals and family.

Having four disciplines, shooting sports can be delivered flexibly, both in terms of which disciplines appear and in terms of location. The preferred position is, naturally, to embrace all four disciplines, and I would encourage that. That option could be delivered at Bisley, as was the case for the successful hosting of the 2002 Manchester games. Bisley has the capacity to do that. It is not unusual for some sports to be outsourced remotely in that way, with examples including shooting in Malaysia in 1998, shooting in Manchester in 2002, shooting in Glasgow in 2014 and track cycling and shooting in Brisbane in 2018. All those events involved shooting, yet we have a big void at the 2022 Birmingham Commonwealth games. As London’s Olympic and Paralympic games and Glasgow’s Commonwealth games all showed, the UK is the world leader in providing low-cost temporary facilities to ISSF standards. It can be done, and it should be done; there are many out there who want it to happen. Equally, some shooting sports could be accommodated easily in Birmingham in the many existing arenas that the city is home to. I encourage the sporting authorities to consider that.

I have been reliably informed that the ISSF, the ICFRA and British Shooting are all willing, ready and able to engage in a meaningful dialogue with the CGF and the host city to accommodate the sport in the 2022 games. Many organisations, individuals and right hon. and hon. Members are keen to add their support. I urge that the matter be considered and acted upon while we have the time to do so, and I look to the Minister to bring that about.

I did not intend to speak for the full two hours, and I am sure that everyone in the House is thinking, “Thank the Lord for that.” I will conclude with this point. My granddaughter Katie is nine years old, and I took my son Jamie shooting when he was younger than that and introduced him to a sport in which he is now fairly proficient and much better than his dad. My granddaughter Katie has started to go hunting with her dad and me. It is a family tradition, and if the tradition continues, perhaps the child will better the father. My son is a better shot than I am, and perhaps my granddaughter will be a better shot than my son.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Mark Garnier and Jim Shannon

Thursday 23rd November 2017 Commons Chamber

[Mark Garnier]

I would love to go to Berwick-upon-Tweed, and I cannot wait to go. It is absolutely right that UK Export Finance has introduced a number of measures, including passing delegated powers to the high street banks to offer up to £2 million of export credit. It is important that we recognise that this resource is vital to financing exports. My hon. Friend will know from the recent briefing session we held for Members of Parliament that we are keen to engage with all Members of Parliament to see how UK Export Finance can help their constituents.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

Can the Minister give an indication of the expressions of interest thus far received from small and medium-sized enterprises, which are now able to access UK export finance through high street banks? Does he believe that that could be promoted to allow SMEs to safely expand?

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Mark Garnier and Jim Shannon

Thursday 15th December 2016 Commons Chamber

[Mark Garnier]

The Department for International Trade is currently recruiting some of the finest people known in this country to help us to develop that. I stress to the hon. Lady that this whole exercise is not just defined by one Department or by the Department for Exiting the European Union; every Department is working to help to maximise the assistance that we can give both to British businesses and to the entire economy.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

Expanding UK global trade will mean that we need better connectivity within the UK. With that in mind, does the Minister agree that expanding Heathrow and adding more flights from Northern Ireland will enable more of our exporters in Northern Ireland to reach clients, particularly in new and emerging markets outside the EU?

[Mark Garnier]

I certainly agree that greater connectivity through airports is incredibly important for the whole country. However, I must stress that the details for such arrangements are for Ministers in the Department for Transport, so perhaps I can refer the hon. Gentleman to them.

Government Services (Websites)

Debate between Mark Garnier and Jim Shannon

Tuesday 22nd October 2013 Commons Chamber

[Mark Garnier]

My hon. Friend expresses the nub of my argument, and I will make similar points during my speech. He is right to raise this issue on behalf of his constituent and she is not alone in such problems.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

I have had examples of the very same thing happening to my constituents. They have followed the process on Google and used a service that cost money, but the Government do it for free. People are annoyed and angry when they find that they have paid for something that they did not need to pay for. Does the hon. Gentleman think that the Government should have warnings on their websites about those companies that charge for something that the Government do not charge for?

[Mark Garnier]

There are warnings out there, and I shall develop that point as I make my speech, but the hon. Gentleman is right. It is difficult for people to tell the difference between one type of website and another.

Petrol Prices (Wyre Forest)

Debate between Mark Garnier and Jim Shannon

Wednesday 12th September 2012 Westminster Hall

[Mark Garnier]

I am grateful to my hon. Friend and neighbour, who is also a member of the Welsh Affairs Committee, and takes a keen interest in what happens in Wales. I will come to that anomaly between cities and smaller rural towns and semi-rural areas, which is a great problem.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

The hon. Gentleman has mentioned a topical and important matter in the area I represent in Northern Ireland, which is a rural community. He referred to demand and pressure in urban and rural areas. Some of my constituents must travel long distances to get to work because of where the work is, and may spend £50 or £60 a week just on petrol and diesel. Does that not underline the issue for many people in rural communities, where we need a price structure that is achievable, fair and affordable?

[Mark Garnier]

The hon. Gentleman hits the nail on the head. People living in rural communities are doubly penalised. They face not only high prices, but higher mileage because they probably have worse access to public services. I will continue to make that point throughout my speech. The hon. Gentleman was absolutely right to raise it on behalf of his constituents.

I said that fuel retailers have cut the premium locally as a result of my pressure, but there may be other reasons, not least that last week the Office of Fair Trading announced an inquiry into fuel prices. That welcome U-turn by the OFT is important because pressure on households is, as we all know, incredibly high. It is tough enough having to pay high fuel prices because of currency and commodity prices, but when duty and tax are added, and then local factors, households face a toxic mix of costs.

Despite local success, a number of serious factors must be taken into account. First, special offers provided by the supermarkets do not constitute a fuel price management policy. If anything, unreasonably high fuel prices locally provide an opportunity for offer-making. Although the big retailers say that helping the consumer is the reason for making offers, we all know that it is about one thing: competition between retailers. Tesco is against ASDA, and against Sainsbury and the rest of them. One offers loyalty points; another offers a discount if a minimum amount is spent in the supermarket alongside the petrol station; a third will discount fuel prices if certain items are bought, and on it goes.

Such offers are marketing plugs that associate the retailers’ names with what seems to be a special offer. I am sure that some offers are taken up, but the reality is that people refuel when the needle is on empty, and not when they have just done the weekly shop. In any event, such offers may seem enticing, but when we were paying 6p a litre more in Wyre Forest, the discount was worth 6p less than in neighbouring Wolverhampton and Dudley because the discount was from a higher level. The fundamental problem was always high local prices in Wyre Forest and other rural and semi-rural communities.

Secondly, the pricing model adopted by supermarkets and fuel retailers favours those in big cities. Fuel retailers try to be the cheapest within a three-mile radius or thereabouts. In a large conurbation such as Birmingham and the black country, many petrol stations will create a chain within 3 miles of one another. In that instance, a petrol retailer east of Birmingham who decides to have a few days undercutting the local market to try to stimulate more demand for their product will create a ripple that spreads across the whole city and probably into the black country. Given that there is a significant number of petrol retailers in that area, there will always be healthy price competition, stimulated by occasional but regular mini price wars.

However, in districts such as Wyre Forest, Strangford and Redditch there are far fewer petrol stations and, importantly, around areas such as Wyre Forest, there is a desert of petrol stations, rather like a doughnut, so the only price competition will be within the locality itself. With far fewer retailers in that closed area, price competition is lower, and it is suggested that some of the big retail chains have deliberately undercut local independent suppliers to drive them out of business, ensuring less competition on pricing. That is anecdotal, and there is no evidence to support it, but it is what people talk about.

[Jim Shannon]

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that some retailers sell petrol and diesel with no profit, and perhaps at a loss, just to keep the small independent retailers out?

[Mark Garnier]

I am grateful for the hon. Gentleman’s intervention. In Wyre Forest, the pricing policy of a local, independent retailer is to make a 3p per litre profit on the cost at which they buy their petrol and diesel. That is interesting, because for a great period, that retailer was substantially undercutting big chain retailers, and as a result, I recommended that my constituents visited it, because it provided the best deal. However, when I checked its price again, that retailer is now 3p or 4p more expensive. The big chain retailers are almost certainly buying wholesale fuel from the same wholesale outlet, and they are probably paying the same amount for that fuel. Therefore, if Callow Oils is still adopting its pricing policy of 3p more per litre, it would indicate that the big chains are running at a loss. It would be interesting to find out more—if the retailers answered my telephone calls, I could find out. I think, however, that the big retailers may well be working at a loss to stimulate local demand.

With fewer retailers in a specific area, there is a greater demand against available supply than would be seen in bigger conurbations, so the price is inevitably higher. In this instance, local factors push the price along the price/demand curve against consumer interests. It is important for big retail chains to have such areas of high pricing. If they are to ensure a sustainable average price of fuel across the whole marketplace—across the whole country—they must ensure that areas of low pricing, such as cities, are balanced by areas of high pricing. That penalises rural regions in favour of urban areas, which is very unfair, as I think we would all agree.

If someone lives in Birmingham, London, Cardiff, or any other city, they will have easy access to far more efficient local public transport infrastructures. The availability of a sensible local public transport service also provides competition to petrol retailers; they are competing not only against each other for customers, but against local public transport. However, if someone lives in a rural or semi-rural area, such as Wyre Forest, their local public transport is neither as accessible nor as user-friendly. They will need to use their own car far more than their urban-based cousin. They will have little practical choice, and will have to buy fuel to run their car. That lack of choice helps drive up local fuel prices, doubly penalising the high-mileage rural commuter.

What am I trying to achieve with this morning’s debate? First, I want yet again to highlight the inequity of the pricing policies of big supermarkets and fuel retailers. We all know about that issue, and many of my colleagues raise it again and again. This is another push in the effort to get big retail chains to heed the plight of rural consumers. People living in rural communities should not be used to subsidise the fuel bills of town and city dwellers.

Secondly, I want to appeal to the retail chains to adopt a more pragmatic pricing policy. I accept that a national pricing policy would probably not work, but using a rigid three-mile radius is probably too tight in certain areas. I would like to see a pricing policy that never allows a district to become isolated within its own pricing area. A pricing link that jumps significant gaps is needed. That can be achieved either by having a larger radius across the country, or by having a radius that takes regional petrol station density into account.

As I mentioned, the OFT last week announced its investigation, which I welcome. It will look at a range of areas. The fact that prices go up pretty quickly with oil price rises but are rather slow to come down is a key concern, but I am particularly keen for that investigation also to look into regionalised price anomalies.

I am grateful to the Minister for his time and attendance this morning. As a free marketer, I am reluctant to ask him to legislate on fuel price equalisation across regions. Fair competition must be the answer, and if the competition turns out to be unfair, or evidence emerges of local cartels, I sincerely hope that the OFT will uncover that and deal with it appropriately. The experience in Wyre Forest, where it appears that local pressure has brought the reward of better local pricing, suggests that retail chains might listen, even if they are reluctant to get together for a meeting—notwithstanding Tesco. Sainsbury’s, take note.

The Minister, of course, has a far louder voice than I or many of my Back-Bench colleagues, and I appeal to him to use every opportunity at his disposal to give petrol retailers a regular prod to ensure that the plight of rural dwellers is taken into account.