Principles of Democracy and the Rights of the Electorate

Madeleine Moon Excerpts

Thursday 26th September 2019 Commons Chamber

[Cat Smith (Lancaster and Fleetwood) (Lab)]

I regret that we are having yet another general debate, rather than making progress on all the outstanding legislation. After all, is it not an important principle of democracy and the expectation of our electorate who sent us here that we make progress on passing legislation?

The principles of democracy are important, and I welcome the topic of this debate. I also welcome the Parliamentary Secretary, Cabinet Office, the hon. Member for Norwich North (Chloe Smith) back to the Front Bench following the birth of her daughter.

In the current political climate we, as elected Members of this House, must demonstrate our commitment to upholding the principles of democracy and the rights of the electorate. I remind the House that we would all do well to conduct this debate in a civil manner and to remember that words matter. I am sure all Members would agree that yesterday was not a good day for this House. Let us acknowledge now that the language coming from two sides is throwing petrol on the toxic nature of debate in our country. It is as wrong to call someone a fascist simply for having voted leave as it is to call someone a traitor simply for having voted remain.

[Mrs Madeleine Moon (Bridgend) (Lab)]

rose—

[Mr William Wragg (Hazel Grove) (Con)]

rose—

[Cat Smith]

Given Mr Deputy Speaker’s earlier remarks, I will give way only once.

[Mrs Moon]

It is my hon. Friend’s use of the word “fascist” that got me. I have just had a message from one of our female colleagues, whose office has been attacked and has had to be closed down by the police because a demonstrator was shouting, “Fascist”. I have also read on Twitter:

“Addressing journalists in Westminster, a senior government source has warned that abuse of MPs will get worse if they pursue a second referendum: ‘What do they think is going to happen?’”

Does my hon. Friend agree that such language causes risk and danger to us all on a daily basis?

[Cat Smith]

I am chilled and shocked by what my hon. Friend has just said, which reflects the language that I think we all know is being used out there in communities. We in this House must show leadership and do better. It is as inflammatory to call somebody thick for having voted leave as it is to call someone a surrenderer for having voted remain. None of this toxic language makes the world a better place; it just makes the problems worse. However this current crisis ends, we all have to live together, whether we voted leave or remain, or did not vote at all.

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[Mr Owen Paterson (North Shropshire) (Con)]

It is a great pleasure to follow my near neighbour from Wrexham, though sadly in the time available I will not pick up his points.

I would like to pick up on the early intervention by the hon. Member for Bridgend (Mrs Moon), who mentioned an horrific attack this afternoon using the word “fascist”. I must sadly remind her that there is balance on both sides. I am a member of the European Research Group.

[Mrs Moon]

The word “fascist” was not my word. It was the word shouted by the demonstrator attempting to break the windows of an hon. Member’s constituency office with her staff behind the windows.

[Mr Paterson]

Totally understood. The hon. Lady reported this horrendous and completely unacceptable incident. I was making the point that we should all watch our language, but sadly one of her colleagues compared the ERG to Nazis. If you google “ERG fascists”, you get 227,000 results, and if you google “ERG extremists”, you get 176,000. We in the ERG would like a system of government where Members are elected to this House, from which a Government is formed. If that Government perform satisfactorily, tax sensibly and spend money sensibly, they are re-elected. If they do not perform well, they are removed by voting. That is a pretty basic summary of representative democracy.

The problem now in this country is the huge collision with the juggernaut of direct democracy. I think we have had 11 referendums in recent decades, and they have all pretty well gone along with what the establishment wanted. The political and commercial establishment were happy with the results—on Scotland, Northern Ireland, Wales, and probably the alternative vote referendum, too.

Then we have this current problem. In 2015, David Cameron promised, “If you vote Conservative, we will give you a one-off in/out referendum. We the MPs will give you the people the right to decide whether we stay in or leave the EU.” Possibly to his surprise, he won the election, and then promised to deliver. The right hon. Member for Runnymede and Weybridge (Mr Hammond) took the referendum Bill through the House in 2015. In his winding-up speech, he gave a pretty good summary. He said:

“But whether we favour Britain being in or out, we surely should all be able to agree on the simple principle that the decision about our membership should be taken by the British people, not by Whitehall bureaucrats, certainly not by Brussels Eurocrats; not even by Government Ministers or parliamentarians in this Chamber.”—[Official Report, 9 June 2015; Vol. 596, c. 1056.]

The Bill got 544 votes on Second Reading.

We then had the referendum itself. People were bombarded with a Government document costing £9 million. It was made very clear that this was a one-off and that the people would decide—that it was not an advisory referendum, but was giving a clear steer to Parliament and that parliamentarians would have to honour it. That was the understanding: whatever the decision, parliamentarians would deliver.

We then had the biggest vote in British history—17.4 million on a single issue against 16.1 million to remain. The conundrum is this. In the ensuing general election, in which, in fairness to my right hon. Friend the Member for Maidenhead (Mrs May) who is not in her seat at the moment, she got the second largest number of votes ever—13.6 million—in a general election, her manifesto was very simple. The Conservative party was elected on a manifesto that we would honour the referendum, leave the single market, leave the customs union and leave the remit of the European Court of Justice. Although woollier, there was pretty clear language in the Labour party manifesto that it would honour the referendum result. According to one assessment, what we have against that in this Parliament, which is a remain Parliament, is 485 Members supporting remain and only 162 supporting leave. We may never ever have a referendum again, but I put it to you, Madam Deputy Speaker, that this has to be delivered. The people were told very clearly, “You vote Conservative in that original general election; we will give you the chance.” They were told during the referendum campaign, “You vote to leave; it will be delivered.” They were told by the two main parties that they would honour the result, but here we are, three years on, and this has not been delivered.

There are Members chuntering about no deal, but this is all a bit of a shibboleth. We are talking about leaving a customs union to which 8% of our businesses send goods. Our sales of goods to this organisation represent 8.2% of GDP and our sales of services 5.5%. This will not bring the roof down.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mrs Madeleine Moon (Bridgend) (Lab)]

That felt very much like a very personal discussion between the right hon. Member for North Shropshire (Mr Paterson) and me, as his eyes seemed to be on me all the time.

I want to look at the wider nature of this debate. I received an email this morning from someone who says that they are a Bridgend constituent. They say that there is a debate warming up on Facebook in a closed Bridgend debate group regarding my participation in Parliament. Indeed, many constituents currently believe that I am not present and committed to Parliament as much as I may need to be in these difficult times in UK politics. Many feel that I have additional responsibilities that take precedence, so they want me to confirm my calendar leading up to Brexit and how much time I will be dedicating to London and spending in the Chamber.

Apparently, there is a lack of information online about my whereabouts in general as an elected representative and about my availability, so I need to log in and tell people more often where I am. There is concern about my surgeries and my availability, and I am asked whether I can confirm whether, and in what capacity, I am conducting surgeries in the coming months, as constituents have concerns about Brexit and require my availability on many issues. There have also been rumours that my surgeries have been put on hold for reasons relating to security issues. I am asked whether I can confirm that those issues are being resolved immediately, because many MPs are having security issues—one had been attacked that day—but can still conduct their surgeries safely by putting processes in place, so those issues may not be a viable excuse for cancelling surgeries.

I have two additional responsibilities in this House: I am a member of the Speaker's Panel and I am president of the NATO Parliamentary Assembly. Many Members are elected to institutions outside this House, such as the Organisation for Security and Co-operation in Europe, the Parliamentary Assembly of the Council of Europe, the Commonwealth Parliamentary Association and the Inter-Parliamentary Union. Those are critical democratic institutions, and we take an active role in them in spreading democracy, spreading information and, in my case in particular, dealing with the defence and security of the United Kingdom.

TheyWorkForYou says that I have above-average commitments in terms of debates, I ask above-average numbers of questions and I have an above-average response to my electorate when I have letters, although I admit that it also indicates that my voting record is lower than some. Therefore, as the president of the NATO Parliament—I have to say I had total endorsement and written communication from the right hon. Member for Maidenhead (Mrs May) when I put my name forward—I am deeply concerned that I am being challenged on my commitment to democracy, and to Brexit in particular, and that that is how we define a Member of Parliament’s commitment to this democratic institution and to defence and security.

I have been advised by the police not to give advance notice of where I am going. It is fine to tweet and to post on Facebook after, but certainly not before. I am concerned that I will not be available over the next two weekends because of commitments I have on behalf of this Parliament and on behalf of institutions that we respect and see as critical to democracy. I hope we never lose a sense of the right of democracy to be wider than one issue.

Oral Answers to Questions

Madeleine Moon Excerpts

Wednesday 4th September 2019 Commons Chamber

[Kevin Foster]

Each crossing is based on an individual case, and the Mersey Gateway, which, as the hon. Gentleman will know, was built in 2017, was based on a 30-year concession to fund its construction.

[Mrs Madeleine Moon (Bridgend) (Lab)]

15. What recent discussions he has had with the Secretary of State for Defence on No. 4 School of Technical Training at RAF St Athan.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Wales (Kevin Foster)]

The Secretary of State has regular discussions with Ministers at the Ministry of Defence on No. 4 School of Technical Training. I will be meeting Ministers at the MOD shortly to explore options not only on maintaining St Athan’s role as an important military and civilian site, but on how to enhance the wider military presence in Wales.

[Mrs Moon]

The commandant has said that the school will close before April 2024. What steps is the Secretary of State taking, given that it is in his constituency, to ensure that the people there will have a chance either to move to Cosford or Lyneham, or, even better, to remain in Wales with this viable school remaining where it should be?

[Kevin Foster]

Thankfully, those who are based in St Athan have a very strong champion in the local MP and the Secretary of State for Wales in ensuring that the military presence is maintained. We just wish that the Welsh Government were slightly more co-operative.

Leaving the European Union

Madeleine Moon Excerpts

Tuesday 26th February 2019 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

What the country wants is to see us delivering on Brexit and delivering leaving the European Union. The timetable of 29 March was set and accepted by the House when it accepted the vote on article 50. As I have said, I want us to be able to do that and to leave on the basis of a deal, and we will be continuing to work to ensure that we can do that. The important issue that Members must consider when they come to vote on the next meaningful vote is delivering on Brexit and giving the public the reassurance that we are actually going to do what they asked us to do.

[Mrs Madeleine Moon (Bridgend) (Lab)]

What would be the better democratic outcome for the country: accepting a second-rate deal resulting in a second-rate future, or holding a second public vote asking the public whether they support or reject a second-rate future for their children and grandchildren?

[The Prime Minister]

I think the best thing for the democratic health of this country is to deliver on the referendum result of 2016. As the right hon. Member for Don Valley (Caroline Flint) has pointed out, people from across the House have campaigned on a manifesto to respect the referendum and deliver on Brexit. And the deal before the House is not a second-rate deal; it is a good deal for the UK.

Leaving the EU

Madeleine Moon Excerpts

Tuesday 12th February 2019 Commons Chamber

[Mr Speaker]

Ah yes, the president of the NATO Parliamentary Assembly—President Moon.

[Mrs Madeleine Moon (Bridgend) (Lab)]

Thank you, Mr Speaker. The Prime Minister has made great statements about honouring the referendum, but the thing I am asked most often by colleagues across Europe and people in my constituency is which selective process the Prime Minister used in honouring which votes. We had an election in 2015, and she did not like the result, so she went back to the people in 2017. We had a vote on her deal, and it was rejected, but now we have to look at it again with small alterations. We voted against no deal, and yet she is not implementing that. How can voters in my constituency and people across Europe who watch what happens in this House have any trust that whatever deal is put on the table will be binding and will not be altered should the UK leave the European Union?

[The Prime Minister]

At the 2017 general election, 80% of the people who voted voted for parties that were committed to honouring the result of the referendum and taking the United Kingdom out of the European Union. That is exactly what the Government are working to do. The hon. Lady refers to no deal. We cannot simply take no deal off the table. As I said, if we are not going to stay in the European Union, the only way to ensure that there is not a no-deal is to have a deal.

Leaving the EU

Madeleine Moon Excerpts

Monday 26th November 2018 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

Obviously, the arrangements in relation to the backstop and for the backstop ceasing to apply are those that are set out in the withdrawal agreement, and of course that does potentially end in the arbitration arrangement. Of course, in terms of the future relationship, the role that is had by the EU and by individual member states will depend on the precise legal form that that agreement or agreements take. But of course if there are areas that are of mixed competence then there would be a role for national Parliaments. If it is only one of EU competence, then of course it is under the sole competence of the EU.

[Mrs Madeleine Moon (Bridgend) (Lab)]

Will the Prime Minister look at the analysis of information gathered by Best for Britain and Hope not Hate across Great Britain and Northern Ireland, which shows that 56% of people wish to remain in the European Union now, 66% want a final say in any deal and 422 constituencies now back remain? Will the Prime Minister listen to the will of the people, which has changed, and give them a people’s vote?

[The Prime Minister]

As I have said on many occasions, this Parliament gave the decision whether or not to leave the European Union to the British people and the British people voted.

[Mrs Moon]

They’ve changed their mind.

[The Prime Minister]

The hon. Lady is saying to me that the British people have changed their mind. If we went down the route that she suggests, and there was another vote and possibly a change of direction, then those who had voted to leave in the first place would rightly say, “Hang on a minute. We need to have another opportunity to vote on this.” This is not the way to conduct these arrangements. We decided to give the vote to the British people. We did that, they voted and we should deliver on that vote.

Progress on EU Negotiations

Madeleine Moon Excerpts

Thursday 22nd November 2018 Commons Chamber

[Mr Speaker]

Let me call the hon. Member for Bridgend (Mrs Moon), whom I hope the whole House will unite in congratulating on her election as President of the NATO Parliamentary Assembly.

[Mrs Madeleine Moon (Bridgend) (Lab)]

Thank you for those kind words, Mr Speaker, and let me therefore ask an appropriate question of the Prime Minister. In the section on foreign policy, defence and security, paragraph 107 talks about considering appropriate arrangements for co-operation in space. Many space assets are vital for the defence and security of the country. How will all parties to this agreement ensure that whatever arrangements are made do not weaken the NATO alliance, and that they ensure that any capability is available for the future security and defence of the whole alliance membership?

[The Prime Minister]

First, let me add my congratulations to the hon. Lady on her election as President of the NATO Parliamentary Assembly. She refers to what will be possible within NATO and the capabilities available to NATO. We remain committed to NATO, as we always have been, as the secure element of our defence. We have had to take some decisions including, as she will be aware, a key decision about some future capabilities in relation to Galileo, because what was being offered by the European Union would not have given us sufficient ability to be part of and participate in that system. That is why we decided to take our own decision and go it alone in that area.

Oral Answers to Questions

Madeleine Moon Excerpts

Wednesday 24th October 2018 Commons Chamber

The Secretary of State was asked—

[Mrs Madeleine Moon (Bridgend) (Lab)]

1. What discussions he has had with the Welsh Government on the placement of young people from England in private sector care homes in Wales.

[The Secretary of State for Wales (Alun Cairns)]

The Government are clear that the needs of the child are paramount when making decisions about the right care placement. The specific issue the hon. Lady refers to has not been raised with me directly by the Welsh Government.

[Mrs Moon]

More than 300 children from England are placed across Wales, often in small Welsh villages. Problems are experienced by some police forces and local authorities about early notification of vulnerable children being placed there who may be seduced into county lines, grooming operations and generally be vulnerable in isolation. Will the Secretary of State share my concern and raise it with the Welsh Assembly Government?

[Alun Cairns]

The hon. Lady clearly raises a very important point and is passionate about the subject. The most appropriate and suitable setting should always be the overriding factor in deciding the best placement for a child, but planning policy and approval from care inspectors should also be considerations, and, naturally, the police should be part of that process. I will happily raise the matter with the Welsh Government.

October EU Council

Madeleine Moon Excerpts

Monday 22nd October 2018 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

The hon. Gentleman will recognise that the geographical position of Gibraltar is a particular issue, and obviously arrangements have been put in place over a number of years with Spain. That situation is different from that of Scotland, which of course, as part of the United Kingdom, will be leaving the European Union. Gibraltar will be leaving alongside the United Kingdom and we will ensure that the arrangements are in place to protect its economy.

[Mrs Madeleine Moon (Bridgend) (Lab)]

The Prime Minister has estimated that there needs to be a six-week stockpile of food and medicine. What about manufacturing companies, such as Ford in my constituency, and the small and medium-sized enterprises that provide components? What if they cannot stockpile for six weeks? Will there be compensation for industry and for those employees who may be laid off because of chaos at our ports?

[The Prime Minister]

The hon. Lady will have seen the various arrangements that are being put in place, which are mentioned in the technical notices that we have issued. We are making preparations for no deal, because we have not come to the conclusion of these negotiations. I believe that coming to a good deal is the best outcome for the United Kingdom, and I think the European Union side recognises the importance of coming to a good deal with the United Kingdom. A good deal for us will be a good deal for them.

Leaving the EU: Customs

Madeleine Moon Excerpts

Wednesday 16th May 2018 Commons Chamber

[Mrs Madeleine Moon (Bridgend) (Lab)]

Let us make no mistake: the only way to ensure tariff-free and frictionless trade, as well protecting against a hard border on the island of Ireland, is to remain in the customs union.

The Secretary of State for Exiting the European Union told me in a recent debate that the Canada-United States border was an example of a customs arrangement that the Government may seek to replicate. However, the Irish Prime Minister, having visited that border, said:

“I saw a hard border with physical infrastructure, with customs posts, people in uniforms with arms and dogs.”

That is not what we want for the border in Ireland.

[Matt Western]

Having visited Detroit and that border between the US and Canada in February, I can confirm that it takes an average of eight minutes to get through, and that it is what a hard border looks like, with X-ray machines and so on. There would be serious friction on such a border.

[Mrs Moon]

It is good to hear such first-hand experience in the House. Clearly such an option is unacceptable for peace in Ireland and the efficient customs regime that we seek. Donald Tusk has effectively said that if Ireland does not find the UK’s offer on the border acceptable, the EU will not allow negotiations to move on to trade. If we also consider the fact that the Irish Prime Minister has said that the US-Canada border example

“is definitely not a solution”,

it is clear that the only way forward is to remain in the customs union.

My constituency of Bridgend has the largest Ford engine factory in Europe. The automotive sector is critical to the wellbeing of many families throughout my constituency—on average, around 12,000 families are linked to work with that factory. According to the Society of Motor Manufacturers and Traders, the introduction of tariffs on trade with the EU because of our leaving the customs union would significantly increase costs. A 10% tariff on finished vehicles would cost the industry £4.5 billion, increasing the price of cars imported to the UK from the EU by an average of around £1,500. Tariff costs and custom burdens on such a highly integrated supply chain would undoubtedly disrupt and undermine the competitiveness of UK manufacturing, and that is without the common standards and rules mentioned by my right hon. Friend the Member for Wolverhampton South East (Mr McFadden).

The Government have said that one of their strategic objectives is

“ensuring UK-EU trade is as frictionless as possible”.

Automotive experts have made it crystal clear that customs barriers and tariffs would be crippling for their industry. As frictionless as possible is just not good enough. It is no secret that the single market and customs union have been vital for the competitiveness of the sector. In the UK, it has made more than £71 billion in turnover and supports more than 800,000 jobs. That is not something that we can toss away lightly.

To protect jobs and to protect the automotive industry, the Government should be actively seeking to avoid any customs tariffs whatsoever. The only way to do that is in the customs union. My constituents deserve to know what future the Government are taking them towards. They have the right to make the ultimate decision, based on the facts—facts that were denied to them at the time of the referendum. Let them have those facts now, and let us know what the Government know about the risks we are taking as a result of their line of taking us out of the customs union.

EU Referendum: Electoral Law

Madeleine Moon Excerpts

Tuesday 27th March 2018 Commons Chamber

[Geraint Davies (Swansea West) (Lab/Co-op)]

It is absolutely amazing that the Foreign Secretary is not in his place, given the gravity of the accusations, his personal centrality to them and the pivotal part he played. He has said that the allegations are “ludicrous” and farcical, that the vote was won legally and that there was fair play. Frankly, what we have already heard and know casts those basic assumptions into doubt. These issues need to be looked at very carefully.

We are talking about the electoral law on which our democracy is based. People watching this debate will be asking themselves whether the referendum was a cheat. Was it based on a lie? Were the economic dice loaded with illegal and dark money? Were the electorate cynically manipulated by Cambridge Analytica, which illegally harvested people’s Facebook data without their knowing it and manipulated their choices to take us on the journey we are now on, which is going to take us into economic Armageddon?

[Mrs Madeleine Moon (Bridgend) (Lab)]

In yesterday’s Russia debate, I called on the Government to pull together a Russia commission so that we can have a root and branch examination of where Russia has interfered not only in our elections, but in our economic, legal and accounting systems. Does my hon. Friend agree that the problem we currently have is that the Electoral Commission and the Information Commissioner lack the powers and the numbers of staff required to carry out the sort of inquiry we need to the depth that we need?

[Geraint Davies]

I certainly agree with my hon. Friend’s last point. The Electoral Commission and the Information Commissioner are going to have a great deal of difficulty evaluating Cambridge Analytica’s role and the dirty money involved. Russia is a much bigger question. There are questions around whether the targeted bombing of innocent civilians in Syria in the run-up to Brexit, in the knowledge that the Germans were allowing in a million refugees, was instrumental in the Brexit result and whether that was intentional; there are questions about whether President Trump was elected through the influence of the Russians; there are questions about whether the fascists in France got a third of the vote because of the Russians; there are questions about how the Russians influenced the German elections; and there are certainly questions about how they influenced Brexit.

I suggest that I limit my comments here to Cambridge Analytica, its abuse and manipulation of British voters and the dirty money behind it.

--- Later in debate ---

[Sir Edward Davey]

The hon. Lady is absolutely right. It is astounding, because this debate is about more than Brexit and the issues being raised in this debate are bigger than Brexit. They are about how our democracy works, parliamentary sovereignty and the rule of law. I thought that Conservative Members, particularly the Brexit Conservatives, had wanted to pull us out of the EU in order to defend parliamentary sovereignty and the rule of law as they describe it. But they are not here to defend that rule of law today, which is what is so shocking about their failure to make speeches in this debate.

[Mrs Moon]

Does the right hon. Gentleman agree that if we ignore this issue—if we do not take it apart and examine it in full—we are allowing a criminalisation of our democracy? We must acknowledge that that is what is at risk here. No matter how inconvenient a truth it is, we must absolutely get to the bottom of it.

[Sir Edward Davey]

Of course, the hon. Lady is absolutely right. If the law has been broken in the serious way that is alleged, it will be a criminal offence. If that is the case, that criminal offence would have been committed in relation to a massive vote that will result in huge constitutional changes. As this is such a serious matter, I would have thought that right hon. and hon. Members from both sides of the House would surely want not just to listen, but to participate.