Oral Answers to Questions

Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton Excerpts

Wednesday 29th June 2011 Commons Chamber

[Karen Lumley (Redditch) (Con)]

Q1. If he will list his official engagements for Wednesday 29 June.

[The Prime Minister (Mr David Cameron)]

This morning, I had meetings with ministerial colleagues and others. In addition to my duties in the House, I shall have further such meetings later today.

[Karen Lumley]

What does my right hon. Friend say to the teachers at Vaynor first school, who are putting the education of children and welfare of the parents first by not striking tomorrow?

[The Prime Minister]

I congratulate them on doing the right thing and keeping their school open. I do not believe that there is any case for industrial action tomorrow, not least because talks are still ongoing. Only a minority of unions have taken the decision to go ahead and strike. I want to see as many mums and dads as possible able to take their children to school tomorrow. What we are proposing is fair. It is fair to taxpayers and also fair to the public sector because we want to continue strong public sector pensions.

[Edward Miliband (Doncaster North) (Lab)]

There are currently 163 statutory organisations in the national health service. Can the Prime Minister tell us how many there will be after his top-down reorganisation?

[The Prime Minister]

What I can tell the right hon. Gentleman is that the health reforms, which now have the support of former health Minister Lord Darzi, will see a reduction in bureaucracy because we are getting rid of strategic health authorities and primary care trusts.

[Edward Miliband]

Let me give the Prime Minister the answer to the question. The number will go up from 163 to 521: pathfinder consortia, health and wellbeing boards, shadow commissioning groups, authorised commissioning groups, a national commissioning board, PCT clusters, SHA clusters, clinical networks and clinical senates. Is that what he meant by a bonfire of the quangos?

[The Prime Minister]

If the right hon. Gentleman looks at the figures for savings, he will see that we are saving £5 billion through the reduction of bureaucracy. That is what is happening. We inherited a situation whereby the number of managers was going up four times as fast as the number of nurses. Since we took over, the number of doctors has gone up and the number of bureaucrats has gone down.

[Edward Miliband]

I will tell the Prime Minister about our record on the NHS: more doctors and nurses than ever, and the shortest waiting lists and highest patient satisfaction ever. The right hon. Gentleman says that he will save money, but he has refused to publish the figures accompanying the new amendments to the Health and Social Care Bill for how much he will spend. Perhaps he can tell me—the figures are available—how much he will spend on making NHS staff redundant.

[The Prime Minister]

Let me give the right hon. Gentleman the figures on the costs and the benefits of reducing the bureaucracy. Changes will have a one-off cost of £1.4 billion over the next two years, but more than £5 billion will be saved in total during this Parliament. Over 10 years, there will be net savings of £12.3 billion. Add to that the fact that we are putting £11.5 billion extra into the NHS; he fought the last election pledging to cut it.

[Edward Miliband]

The Prime Minister did not answer the specific question that I asked, which was how much he was spending on making NHS staff redundant. The answer is £852 million. Will he guarantee to the House that none of those staff will be re-hired to do their old jobs at his new quangos?

[The Prime Minister]

What we are doing is implementing—[Interruption.] Yes. We are implementing the £20 billion cost savings that were set out by the Labour party when it was in government. But the difference is that we are going on with putting more money into the NHS—money that the Labour party does not support—so that there will be more nurses, more doctors, more operations in our health service, and a better NHS compared with cuts from the Labour party.

[Edward Miliband]

Let me just ask the question again, because the right hon. Gentleman did not answer it. People are very concerned that he is creating a whole new set of quangos. Will he tell us the answer to this simple question? Can he guarantee that none of the people being made redundant will be re-hired to do their old jobs at his new quangos? It is a simple question: yes or no?

[The Prime Minister]

I know that the right hon. Gentleman has this extraordinary vision of how the NHS is run, but it is not the Prime Minister who hires every person in every organisation in the NHS. The difference between this coalition Government and the Labour party is that we are investing in the NHS, putting resources into the NHS, reforming the NHS in a way that is supported by the Royal College of Surgeons, the Royal College of Physicians, Tony Blair, Lord Darzi and most people working in the NHS, but not by the Labour party. [Interruption.]

[Mr Speaker]

Order. The decibel level is—[Interruption.] Order. The decibel level is far too high. The Prime Minister should not have to shout to make himself heard.

[Edward Miliband]

The whole country will have heard that the Prime Minister has admitted the Government are spending £852 million on making people redundant, and he cannot even promise that they will not be re-hired to do their old jobs. Is not this the truth? He promised no top-down reorganisation; he is doing it. He promised a bonfire of the quangos; he is creating more. He promised a better deal for patients and things are getting worse. What people are asking up and down this country is: what is he doing to our NHS?

[The Prime Minister]

What the whole country will have noticed is that at a time when people are worried about strikes, the right hon. Gentleman cannot ask about strikes because he is in the pocket of the unions. What the whole country will have noticed is that at a time when Greece is facing huge problems over its deficit, he cannot talk about Greece because his plan is to make Britain like Greece. What the whole country will have noticed is that at a time when the economy is the key issue, he cannot talk about the economy because of his ludicrous plan for tax cuts. That is what we see, week after week. He has to talk about the micro because he cannot talk about the macro.

[Mr Speaker]

We are very grateful. I call Guto Bebb. [Interruption.] Order. I appeal to the House to calm down and reflect on what the public think of this sort of behaviour.

[Guto Bebb (Aberconwy) (Con)]

Will the Prime Minister agree that Aneurin Bevan would be turning in his grave as he sees a Conservative Secretary of State increase spending on the health service in England while a Labour Government in Cardiff cut spending on the NHS?

[The Prime Minister]

My hon. Friend has an extremely good point. I hope it is in order to talk about Labour’s record in Wales, because if anybody wants to know what would happen to the NHS under Labour, they can look at Wales, where it is slashing the NHS budget and actually seeing more people waiting for longer. That is what happens when you get a Labour party running the NHS.

[Ian Lucas (Wrexham) (Lab)]

Q2. The Leader of the Opposition’s feed-in tariff helped to create 300 more jobs at Sharp in Wrexham earlier this year, but today, because of this Government’s reversal of policy, the Renewable Energy Association says that solar generation and the jobs and growth linked to it are in turmoil. Who knows better—the Prime Minister or British business?

[The Prime Minister]

Anyone looking at what this Government are doing in terms of renewable energy can see a massive investment in renewable energy—the £3 billion going into the green investment bank; the massive incentives given under the renewable heat initiative. We had to stop the abuse of solar power, where clearly the regime was not set in the right way, but anyone looking at that industry can see a huge boost from this Government.

[Sir Peter Tapsell (Louth and Horncastle) (Con)]

Despite the gravity of the financial situation against which the Bank of England is preparing contingency plans, have the Government also got a team working on the details of a new treaty, in case, as seems probable, the European Union has to be considerably changed?

[The Prime Minister]

May I first of all say to the Father of the House, on behalf, I believe, of the whole House, what great pleasure it gives me to refer to him as my right hon. Friend, after his many years of service in the House? What I would say to him is that we have, quite rightly, used the opportunity of the new treaty change being put forward to protect Britain’s interest and get us out of the bail-out mechanism for the future. Of course, if new proposals come along, we could use that opportunity again, but I think right now the priority must be to work for stability in the eurozone, not least because 40% of our exports go to eurozone countries. Britain is playing a constructive role in making sure that that happens.

[Emily Thornberry (Islington South and Finsbury) (Lab)]

Q3. Does the Prime Minister agree with the Deputy Prime Minister that the idea of introducing a marriage tax allowance is “patronising drivel”?

[The Prime Minister]

The Deputy Prime Minister and I agree about many, many things, but that is set down in the coalition agreement; this is one area where we do not agree. I am a strong supporter of the institution of marriage. I do believe that it would be a good idea to recognise it in the tax system.

[Andrew Selous (South West Bedfordshire) (Con)]

Q4. Last week, six illegal migrant workers were arrested in my constituency; all had national insurance numbers and were paying national insurance. Why cannot we prevent illegal workers from being issued with national insurance numbers in the first place—or, at the very least, flag those national insurance numbers so that the tax authorities and the UK Border Agency know that these people are not allowed to work?

[The Prime Minister]

My hon. Friend makes an extremely good point, and I have discussed this with him. As he knows, the application process for national insurance numbers for adults does include an identity check and the precondition that the individual is entitled to work. None the less, as my hon. Friend’s case demonstrates, although national insurance numbers should not be issued to those with no entitlement to work, that is happening. We are looking very closely at the idea of marking national insurance numbers in the way that he suggests.

[Alison McGovern (Wirral South) (Lab)]

Q5. At a time when the NHS is under financial pressure and people in Wirral are being hit by steep rises in prices, please will the Prime Minister tell me whether he agrees with his friends on the Government Benches, who think that costly tax breaks for those who can choose private health care should be a priority?

[The Prime Minister]

The short answer to that is no, I don’t agree.

[Mr Brian Binley (Northampton South) (Con)]

The Prime Minister will be aware that core inflation for small businesses is at its highest level for three years. Will the Prime Minister recognise that problem, but especially tell us what more he can do to increase demand, which remains at best very sluggish?

[The Prime Minister]

I can tell my hon. Friend what we have done to help the economy. Obviously, this year a key problem for small business is the cost of fuel. We have cut fuel duty, abolished the escalator and put off the retail prices index increase to next year, making a difference of around 6p per gallon. That makes a difference. We also, with the banks, have the Merlin agreement for extra lending to small business, we have cut corporation tax for small business and we have helped on business rates for small business. This is a very small business-friendly Government.

[Ian Austin (Dudley North) (Lab)]

Q6. Four years ago, the Prime Minister said that the extremist organisation Hizb ut-Tahrir should be banned immediately. He has promised to do just that on countless occasions—in the House, elsewhere and even in his election manifesto. Why has he not done what he promised to do so many times? Will he go back to Downing street and ban that organisation today?

[The Prime Minister]

We have taken action against the extremist group the Tehrik-e-Taliban, and we have banned it. We are looking extremely carefully at Hizb ut-Tahrir. In my view, what it has said goes well beyond what a legal organisation should say, but this has to be done under the law.

[Bob Blackman (Harrow East) (Con)]

Q7. Labour’s former pensions Minister, describes the current position on public sector pensions as completely untenable. Does my right hon. Friend agree that it is unacceptable that tomorrow a small minority of trade unions will cause disruption to thousands of people across the country?

[The Prime Minister]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right, and Labour Members clearly do not want to talk about this issue. A small minority of unions has gone ahead with action, which is irresponsible and I do not believe it is fair, whereas our proposals are fair. He is right that Lord Hutton, a former Labour Minister, has written an extremely good report making the simple point that as we live longer, which is good news, we shall have to contribute more to public sector pensions and work longer. I stress that we are doing this not in any way to undermine public sector pensions but to safeguard good, defined benefit systems for the future. In my view there is a contract between taxpayers and public sector workers that says, “You work in the public sector; we will support you in old age,” but it must be sustainable.

[Mr Nigel Dodds (Belfast North) (DUP)]

Is the Prime Minister aware of the concerns that have been expressed about the new arrangements for repatriating the bodies of our servicemen and women killed on active service following the transfer to Brize Norton? What arrangements and facilities will be put in place at Brize Norton for bereaved families and to allow the public to express their condolences and respect for our fallen?

[The Prime Minister]

I am well aware of the issue, not least because Brize Norton is in my west Oxfordshire constituency. A lot of thought has gone into how to do this in the right way, and a lot of care and thought will go into how to look after the families. It is right that we mark the passage from Wootton Bassett—soon to be Royal Wootton Bassett—to Brize Norton, and that will be done too.

[Mark Menzies (Fylde) (Con)]

My constituency is proud to be home to Weeton Army barracks, but after so many years of loyal and brave assistance is it not time that we did the right thing by service personnel and gave them priority in housing?

[The Prime Minister]

My hon. Friend makes an important point. We have for the first time put the military covenant into law, which is important in ensuring that military personnel are not discriminated against. It is right for every council to look at what it can do positively to help those who serve our country. That is certainly what my local council does in west Oxfordshire and, in the light of Brize Norton, I encourage others to do the same. The new Government policy of Firstbuy Direct helps first-time buyers on to the housing ladder, and I am pleased that the housing Minister is ensuring that the policy is taken round to Army and other military bases to make sure that military personnel can take advantage of it.

[Natascha Engel (North East Derbyshire) (Lab)]

This week marks the first anniversary of the Backbench Business Committee. Does the Prime Minister think that over the past year Parliament has become better at holding the Government to account? If so, may we offer our help in unblocking some of the measures that are stuck in the legislative pipeline?

[The Prime Minister]

I congratulate the Backbench Committee. Over the past year, it has made a difference in Parliament. It is right that Parliament can choose to debate a subject of its choosing on a motion of its choosing and at a time of its choosing. The Committee has arranged for a range of issues to be discussed, from the very mundane to the quite obscure—it has, if you like, been a year of bread and circuses. There we are—I got it out. It is a good idea and I want it to go on working, although I would like to take a little credit as it was this Government who gave up power and allowed this to happen.

[Anne Marie Morris (Newton Abbot) (Con)]

Q9. People in Devon earn about £2,964 a year less than the UK national average, yet our average water bill, at £517, is the highest in the country and well above the national average of £356. Does the Prime Minister agree that the third option outlined in the recent Department for Food, Environment and Rural Affairs consultation on water affordability, suggesting a Government subsidy of about £50 per south-west household, would go a long way to righting this unfairness?

[The Prime Minister]

The excessive water bills in the south-west have been an issue for many years. I am proud of the fact that, within a year, this Government decided to grip it. We are determined to lower the water bills of households in the south-west. We pledged that in the Budget, and we will set out our proposals in the water White Paper to be published in November.

[Nick Smith (Blaenau Gwent) (Lab)]

Q10. The crisis at Southern Cross has raised fears about the viability of the residential care sector, so will the Prime Minister inject some urgency into his Government’s review of companies that provide care services? We need a belt-and-braces plan to stop the elderly worrying about the place that they call home.

[The Prime Minister]

The hon. Gentleman makes an extremely important point. Many of us, myself included, have care homes in our constituencies run by Southern Cross and we are extremely concerned about what has happened and what is happening. The Health Department, the Treasury and the Department for Business, Innovation and Skills are following this very closely. We are taking powers in the Health and Social Care Bill to make sure that we regulate these organisations properly. Local authorities have the necessary powers to take over the running of care homes if required, so I believe that we are planning for all contingencies in the correct way.

[Robert Halfon (Harlow) (Con)]

Q11. Given the high cost of petrol, which is crucifying motorists in Harlow and across the country, will my right hon. Friend support the FairFuelUK campaign, urge oil companies to reduce petrol prices at the pump in line with market prices, and review the 3p increase next January?

[The Prime Minister]

I want to see every chance for lower prices to be passed on to the consumer. The Government have certainly taken their necessary measures: the 1p cut in fuel duty this year, putting off the RPI increase and the abolition of the fuel escalator that the Labour party put in place. All those things will make a difference. We also took part in the release of oil stocks with the Americans, which has seen the oil price come down and ease somewhat. We need to ensure that we have a good competitive sector that passes on price cuts right through the country.

[Dr William McCrea (South Antrim) (DUP)]

Q12. As the review of the air passenger duty continues, will the Prime Minister accept that the situation is urgent, especially in my constituency of South Antrim, with Belfast International airport, given that APD is levied at £120 on a long-haul flight, when our competitors in the Irish Republic have a levy of just €3? That endangers the continental air link between Northern Ireland and New York. Something urgent must be done now.

[The Prime Minister]

I absolutely understand the hon. Gentleman’s point and I know that, with Belfast International airport in his constituency, it is of personal concern to him. When I went to Northern Ireland, people explained to me the importance of maintaining that direct air link to the United States. It is vital for the long-term health of the Province, so I want to see this happen. My right hon. Friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer has spoken to people in Northern Ireland about this, we are reviewing the options and we will make clear a path forward.

[Mr Gary Streeter (South West Devon) (Con)]

Q13. My right hon. Friend will know that our colleague Lord Bates is walking from Olympia in Greece to London, a journey of some 4,000 miles, to raise awareness of the Olympic truce. Will the Prime Minister ensure that when the UK Government table their resolution for observance of the Olympic truce at the United Nations General Assembly later this year, we will add specific proposals for peace and reconciliation so that we can maximise this historic opportunity?

[The Prime Minister]

The whole House will want to congratulate Lord Bates on his great feat. [Laughter.] I am sorry about that, it was accidental. We will promote a fresh resolution at the UN calling for the continued observance of the Olympic truce for the 2012 games. We wish to make the most of that historic opportunity, we are considering other international initiatives to promote the spirit of the truce and—it says here—the Foreign and Commonwealth Office is engaging with our embassies worldwide.

[Diana Johnson (Kingston upon Hull North) (Lab)]

Will not parents up and down the land be horrified to know that, under the Government’s proposals in the Protection of Freedoms Bill, a person convicted of raping a child will not automatically be put on the barred list for working with children in the future?

[The Prime Minister]

What we have done in terms of vetting and barring is remove a huge number of people who are not a risk to children, but we do want to make sure that the system works well so that anyone who has criminal convictions is, as the hon. Lady said, barred.

[Dr Julian Huppert (Cambridge) (LD)]

Does the Prime Minister believe that drugs policy has been failing for decades, as he said in 2005, and does he agree that the Government should initiate a discussion of alternative ways, including the possibility of legalisation and regulation, to tackle the global drugs dilemma, as he voted for in 2002?

[The Prime Minister]

I do not believe that we should legalise any drugs that are currently criminal, but I do believe that drugs policy has been a failure over recent years. There has been insufficient attention to the two key areas of education––warning people of the dangers of drugs––and treatment. One of the ways to collapse the drugs market is to have a more effective treatment system. In this country particularly, we have spent too much time on heroin replacement and methadone rather than on trying to get people clean and clear up all the things in their lives that perhaps cause them to take drugs in the first place.

[Mr Tom Clarke (Coatbridge, Chryston and Bellshill) (Lab)]

Has the Prime Minister himself been involved in seeking a solution to the appalling problems in Sudan, especially south Kordofan and, given the United Nations’ concern about 60,000 people being displaced, as well as other huge humanitarian problems, will he use his influence on the eve of independence to ensure that north and south are seen to work together?

[The Prime Minister]

As the right hon. Gentleman knows, we are deeply involved in seeking a successful outcome to this process: we fund a lot of the African Union talks process that has been ongoing, and my right hon. Friend the Foreign Secretary has visited the country, as has the Africa Minister. Britain has done a huge amount to try to make sure the comprehensive peace agreement is fully implemented and there is a peaceful settlement between the two countries. Clearly there is a lot more work to do however, and, yes, I keep a personal perspective on this issue as well.

[Alok Sharma (Reading West) (Con)]

What does the Prime Minister think is more fair and progressive: the coalition Government’s policy of safeguarding defined benefit pension schemes in the public sector, or Labour’s £100-billion smash and grab on private pension funds, which directly contributed to the demise of defined benefit schemes in the private sector?

[The Prime Minister]

My hon. Friend makes an extremely good point, and I note that we are 26 minutes into Question Time yet we have not heard a squeak from Labour Members about strikes, pensions or the need for reform. Because they are all paid for by the trade unions, they cannot talk about this issue. What the coalition Government are doing is right, because we are saying that we want to have a defined benefit system in the public sector. We want to make sure all those accrued rights are kept, and people will still be able to take those accrued rights at the age they were originally allowed to take them. Just to put this beyond doubt, when people who are currently in a final salary scheme get the accrued benefits, they will be based on their final salary; not their final salary now or when the reforms go through, but the final salary when they retire. As so much myth and misinformation has been put around by some in the trade unions, it is important to put that on the record here in the House.

[Clive Efford (Eltham) (Lab)]

Compared with the same period last year, crime overall in London is up, including a 15% rise in robbery and an 18% rise in burglary. At the same time the Mayor of London has budgeted to cut 1,800 police officers. Is this the right time to be doing that, and will the Prime Minister get a grip in London?

[The Prime Minister]

The first point I would make is that overall crime is falling; it is falling according to both the British crime survey and the police recorded crime statistics. We are doing a huge amount to help people right across the country, including in London, deal with crime: the publication of crime maps; the introduction of police commissioners; and making sure we have the proper and necessary powers.

Because the hon. Gentleman is a London MP, let me bring him up to date on Operation Target, which is currently running in the Metropolitan police: on average, 1,200 officers are deployed every day; there have been 4,000 different activities and 2,000 arrests; and it is early days, but there has been a drop in offences from week to week for the most serious offences such as violence with injury, knife crime, street robbery and residential burglary. [Interruption.] The fact is that Opposition Members do not like to hear an answer when it shows the police are doing their job.

[Mr Speaker]

Order. Prime Minister’s questions is principally for Back Benchers. I call Mr Graham Evans.

[Graham Evans (Weaver Vale) (Con)]

On 8 June 1944, a relative of mine, Sergeant Jack Chadwick, was shot down while dropping much-needed supplies to the French resistance. Today he lies in a Normandy churchyard, together with the seven-man crew of his Halifax bomber. Does my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister agree that it is right and proper that this nation should remember the sacrifice of the 55,000 members of Bomber Command who gave their lives to rid Europe of Nazi tyranny?

[The Prime Minister]

I think it is absolutely right that we remember those who served in Bomber Command. I recognise that a lot of work is going on to make sure that that is done, and that work has my support. As someone who recently visited one of the Commonwealth war graves cemeteries in Normandy, let me also say that it is brilliant that their upkeep is so good, and that such a huge amount of work goes into making sure that relatives can visit and see their fallen heroes.

[Pamela Nash (Airdrie and Shotts) (Lab)]

Under the last Labour Government, millions of pensioners in this country, including my grandmother, who is in the Gallery today, saw their quality of life improve vastly with measures such as the winter fuel allowance, pension credits and free bus passes. What message does the Prime Minister have for those women who now see their daughters having to work harder and longer for less money? Some will have less time to prepare for a later state pension.

[The Prime Minister]

What I would say to the hon. Lady’s constituents—indeed, I would say it to all pensioners—is that this Government are reforming pensions so that we can pay a more generous state retirement pension. Because of the triple lock, someone retiring today will be £15,000 better off over the rest of their life than they would have been under the plans that we inherited. Linked into that, we have kept the free bus pass, the free television licence and the other free pensioner benefits. I believe that we are doing fair by Britain’s pensioners.

[Claire Perry (Devizes) (Con)]

The Prime Minister alluded earlier to the contract between taxpayers and public servants, but there is also a contract between taxpayers and MPs. Does he agree that MPs should be in the vanguard of reforming pensions by reforming our own, so that we can look our public sector constituents in the face?

[The Prime Minister]

I absolutely agree with my hon. Friend. Members of the House are public sector workers too, and we should be subject to exactly the same changes that we are asking others to take on. Therefore, the increase in contributions should apply to the MP system, even though we already pay in quite a lot. We are saying that right across the board, the increase in pension contributions is right to create a healthier long-term system.

[Mr Speaker]

Order. I appeal to hon. and right hon. Members who are leaving the Chamber to do so quickly and quietly, so that we can hear the statement by the Foreign Secretary.