Lord Barker of Battle
Main Page: Lord Barker of Battle (Conservative - Life peer)
The Minister of State, Department of Energy and Climate Change (Gregory Barker)
The ECO is being designed specifically to tackle fuel poverty and hard-to-treat homes. Although it is too early to set exact numbers for the scheme ahead of our consultation on the ECO in autumn I fully expect a far greater level of resource to be brought to bear on the fuel-poor than was previously the case under the carbon emissions reduction target or Warm Front.
Nick Smith
I thank the Minister for his reply. Parts of Blaenau Gwent are 1,200 feet above sea level and it gets cold in winter. Given the established relationship between excess winter deaths and low indoor temperature, and given that the UK has a higher rate of such deaths than Scandinavian countries, will he ensure that the ECO prioritises a reduction in excess winter deaths?
Gregory Barker
The hon. Gentleman raises a very important point. As I also sit on the Cabinet Office’s Public Health Sub-Committee, I am very aware of the issue he raises. That is why we are absolutely clear that the ECO must be focused on the fuel-poor and hard-to-treat homes and why we must have an impact on exactly the statistic that he mentions in relation to his constituency.
Luciana Berger (Liverpool, Wavertree) (Lab/Co-op)
We have just heard twice from the Minister that the ECO will be used specifically to tackle hard-to-treat homes and fuel poverty, but unfortunately this week we have heard worrying rumours that the ECO will not be used exclusively to tackle fuel poverty and hard-to-treat homes. Consumer Focus recently estimated that to tackle just over a third of non-cavity-wall homes in the UK would require an ECO investment of more than £7 billion. That underlines the scale of the challenge that the ECO needs to meet. Will the Minister guarantee today that the ECO will be used only to tackle fuel poverty and hard-to-treat homes and not to subsidise banks providing green deal finance?
Gregory Barker
I do not think I could be clearer than to say that the focus of this new measure, unlike the CERT programme brought in by the previous Government, which we had to reform considerably when we came to office, will be on fuel poverty and hard-to-treat homes. We are absolutely clear about that and the measure is going to be much more effective than any measure that the Labour party introduced.
Stephen Mosley (City of Chester) (Con)
4. What contribution he expects the renewable heat incentive to make to the Government’s targets for greenhouse gas emission reductions.
The Minister of State, Department of Energy and Climate Change (Gregory Barker)
We expect installations in industrial and commercial buildings to achieve cumulative carbon dioxide savings of 44 million tonnes of CO2 by 2020. It is harder to forecast reductions for the domestic sector, but we hope to achieve a cumulative reduction of at least 2.5 million tonnes by 2020 also.
Stephen Mosley
I thank the Minister for his response, but I have one concern about the renewable heat incentive. We are proposing to introduce the premium payment scheme in July, which will run for 15 months until it is replaced by the green deal and the RHI tariff next October. Will he reassure people who are considering taking out the RHI premium payment scheme that they will automatically qualify for the RHI tariff when it is introduced next October?
Gregory Barker
I am extremely grateful to my hon. Friend for raising this important point, not least because we hope that more than 25,000 people will take advantage of the premium payments. Providing that they comply with the terms of the payment, they will certainly be able to qualify for the RHI tariff.
Mr Geoffrey Robinson (Coventry North West) (Lab)
The Minister will be aware that there is a sort of hiatus in the industry at the moment among consumers, as the previous question from the hon. Member for City of Chester (Stephen Mosley) indicated, because they do not know what the tariff will be and we do not have an absolute commitment that its introduction will coincide with that of the green deal next October. Can he confirm that the tariff will definitely come in and, in the interim, at least let us have details of what it will be in order to restore confidence, the lack of which is currently holding the whole scheme back?
Gregory Barker
I can certainly assure the hon. Gentleman that the tariffs will kick in alongside the green deal in autumn next year and that we will publish the rates of the tariffs this September. Premium payments are a really good way of ensuring that we dovetail strong consumer safeguards while priming new technologies.
Steve Rotheram (Liverpool, Walton) (Lab)
5. What steps he plans to take to ensure that householders who participate in the green deal scheme have access to an appropriate redress scheme in respect of any inadequate work carried out.
Mr Robin Walker (Worcester) (Con)
6. What assessment he has made of the likely effect on investment in green jobs and technologies of the green deal and renewable heat incentive schemes.
The Minister of State, Department of Energy and Climate Change (Gregory Barker)
We estimate that the green deal could drive up to £20 billion of investment by 2020 and support more than 125,000 jobs across the supply chain. In addition, by 2020 the renewable heat incentive scheme should lead to up to £7.5 billion of new capital investment in heat technologies and potentially support 150,000 manufacturing, supply chain and installer jobs, not least in Worcester Bosch in my hon. Friend’s constituency.
Mr Walker
Following the welcome decision of the regional growth fund to approve investments of almost £18 million in the Worcester technology park project, the one remaining hurdle for the creation of thousands of new green jobs in Worcester is the approval of the board of Bosch. What message would the Minister send to that board and to other overseas investors about Britain’s commitment to green growth and jobs?
Gregory Barker
My hon. Friend is a real champion of green growth, and I can tell him unequivocally that, although we have set an ambitious carbon budget, under this coalition decarbonisation must not mean deindustrialisation—far from it. We are committed to creating a framework for more advanced manufacturing jobs to power green growth and to make Britain once again a workshop of the world.
Mr Iain Wright (Hartlepool) (Lab)
Why in the past year has Britain slipped from third in the world to 13th in terms of investment in green industry?
Gregory Barker
I am afraid that it will be very difficult to shake a legacy of 13 years of Labour government, and the hon. Gentleman will know that we slipped massively down the table of world manufacturing during his party’s time in government. We are having to put this country on a different trajectory, and that means a slight hiatus while we change course, but when we have changed course and our new measures are in place we will be primed for success and will turn around the miserable failure of the Labour years.
Pamela Nash (Airdrie and Shotts) (Lab)
7. What plans he has for the future of carbon capture and storage; and if he will make a statement.
Andrew Selous (South West Bedfordshire) (Con)
9. What recent discussions he has had with the Chancellor of the Exchequer on any fiscal incentives to support achievement of the Committee on Climate Change’s target number of electric vehicles in 2020.
The Minister of State, Department of Energy and Climate Change (Gregory Barker)
Fiscal incentives are a matter for the Treasury, but DECC has a strong interest in encouraging the take-up of electric vehicles. We work closely with the Department for Transport, which has lead responsibility for the policy, but we regularly meet companies leading the development and deployment of cutting-edge low-carbon vehicle technologies.
Andrew Selous
Electric cars will play an important part in reducing carbon emissions, they are an important part of green growth, and they can reduce the costs of motoring for our constituents. The Committee on Climate Change has called for 1.7 million electric cars by 2020—quite a lot fewer than Japan and Israel. How does my hon. Friend see us meeting that target?
Gregory Barker
My hon. Friend is a powerful advocate for this agenda and speaks with considerable authority. He will know that in the last comprehensive spending review we announced over £400 million of measures to promote the take-up of ultra low-carbon vehicles, in addition to exempting them from road tax, company car tax and the congestion charge, and now we have a consumer grant of up to £5,000 per vehicle and a £30 million investment in infrastructure. Then, on top of that, later this summer, in line with the coalition agreement commitment to mandate a national recharging network, we will be publishing a strategy for promoting the roll-out of charging infrastructure.
Bill Esterson (Sefton Central) (Lab)
I will resist the temptation to ask whether it is easier to stay within the speed limit in an electric car. Instead, I will ask what is the best way to make electric cars more efficient in their use of energy given that the electricity still has to be generated and that we still rely on burning fossil fuels for much of our energy.
Gregory Barker
Ultimately, it will be the decarbonisation of the energy sector that will ensure that electric cars become genuinely low or zero-carbon vehicles. With the publication of the fourth carbon budget, we now have the long-term trajectory in place to ensure that we reach our ambitious decarbonisation goals.
Roger Williams (Brecon and Radnorshire) (LD)
10. When he expects to receive the recommendations of the independent fuel poverty review.
Mr David Amess (Southend West) (Con)
14. When he expects to receive the recommendations of the independent fuel poverty review.
The Minister of State, Department of Energy and Climate Change (Gregory Barker)
My right hon. Friend the Secretary of State has asked Professor Hills of the London School of Economics to lead the independent fuel poverty review and to provide interim findings by this autumn and a final report by early 2012 at the latest.
Roger Williams
I thank the Minister for that reply. I understand that the author of the report has been asked to demonstrate how fuel poverty can be removed entirely within 15 years. Many constituents of mine live in homes that are off mains gas and are hard to heat. Will the green deal have enough capacity to meet that target and eliminate this scourge of rural areas?
Gregory Barker
Absolutely. The rural fuel-poor, who for many years have been overlooked by fuel poverty policies, and who suffer particularly from high heating-oil prices and from hard-to-heat homes, will particularly benefit from the green deal and from the renewable heat incentive. Under the coalition, it is a double win for the rural fuel-poor.
Mr Amess
As the promoter of the Warm Homes and Energy Conservation Act 2000, my hon. Friend will understand my disappointment that fuel poverty has not been eliminated. Will he take the opportunity, through the Committee and Report stage of the Energy Bill and through the green deal, to ensure that a clear delivery plan is enshrined in legislation to eliminate fuel poverty?
Gregory Barker
That piece of landmark legislation, which my hon. Friend got on to the statute book having had long experience in these matters, will be an important part of our strategy for delivering a green deal programme that will bear down on and eventually eliminate fuel poverty. I can assure him that unlike the Labour Government, who allowed the Home Energy Conservation Act 1995 to languish on the statute book and be frittered away, we will ensure that the legislation is used effectively and that there is far greater co-ordination and collaboration between local government and us at the centre.
Caroline Lucas (Brighton, Pavilion) (Green)
When the Warm Front scheme is closed down, it will be the first time in 30 years that there has not been a Treasury-funded scheme to tackle fuel poverty, which is a major problem in constituencies such as mine. Will the Minister do all he can to persuade the Treasury to take its fair share of the cost of cutting poverty so that the full funding burden is not regressively applied to energy bills, thus hitting the poorest hardest?
Gregory Barker
Sadly, we know that in the past Warm Front has not been effective. Let us face it, more than 90 Members from all sides of the House, including Labour Front Benchers, have written to me to complain about it. Were we to carry on relying on Warm Front alone, it would take more than 80 years to treat homes which, under the green deal, we expect to treat by 2030. I have to say to the hon. Lady that there is funding next year, the year after and the year after that for Warm Front, but the real driver for eliminating fuel poverty will be the green deal and the ECO that underpins it.
Dr Alan Whitehead (Southampton, Test) (Lab)
What action does the Minister propose to take to ensure that the energy company obligation does not put more people into fuel poverty, as a result of the effect that the imposition of the levy will have on their bills, than it takes out? Will he consider rising block tariffs as a method of imposing levies, rather than an imposition on standing charges, which would have a particular effect on those in fuel poverty?
Gregory Barker
The hon. Gentleman speaks with great authority on this subject and is recognised as an expert, but we have considered block tariffs and do not believe that they are effective. The warm home discount is available, however, which will be worth more than £1 billion to the fuel-poor over the spending period. We expect it to help up to 2 million households a year. His point about levies is well made, and we have paid particular attention to that issue. That is why, unlike under the Labour proposals, the RHI will be funded out of general taxation, which we believe will be more progressive.
Mr Philip Hollobone (Kettering) (Con)
11. If he will develop incentives to encourage the siting of wind farms offshore.
Diana Johnson (Kingston upon Hull North) (Lab)
17. What recent representations he has received on the level of consumer protection afforded by provisions of the Energy Bill.
The Minister of State, Department of Energy and Climate Change (Gregory Barker)
Robust consumer protection is at the heart of the green deal, and will be enshrined in the Bill’s provisions. Further details will be spelt out in secondary legislation later this autumn.
Diana Johnson
I listened carefully to what the Minister said earlier about redress being open to individuals through, for example, the county court, but I am pleased to hear that he recognises the importance of good, strong consumer protection set out in regulations. I very much hope that the Government introduce that and provide robust protection for consumers.
Gregory Barker
The hon. Lady makes some very good points. I am pleased to say that although we will publish the details later in the year, before the Bill is in Committee, I shall place in the House of Commons Library a paper summarising our approach to regulation and send her a copy.
Tristram Hunt (Stoke-on-Trent Central) (Lab)
18. If his Department will undertake an impact assessment of the effect of energy regulation on the competitiveness of energy-intensive industries.
Jessica Morden (Newport East) (Lab)
19. What plans his Department has to generate tidal energy from the River Severn.
The Minister of State, Department of Energy and Climate Change (Gregory Barker)
Following a two-year feasibility study, the Government concluded that there was not a strong case for public investment in a Severn tidal power scheme in the immediate term. However, that does not preclude a privately financed scheme coming forward in the meantime, and we are actively talking to developers about their plans for various tidal energy schemes in the Severn.
Jessica Morden
The Government have decided against the Severn barrage, but it is important that we do not lose the impetus to harness tidal power in the Severn. Will the Minister give more detail on any discussions he has had with the Welsh Assembly Government on alternative plans? How far advanced are they?
Gregory Barker
I cannot give details of commercially confidential discussions, but we are encouraging developers to come forward with a range of proposals and looking to be as helpful as we can. The primary barrier to the previous proposal was the £34 billion cost, which in the current circumstances just did not seem feasible. However, we are trying to create a constructive framework for other, private proposals, and I would be happy to discuss the matter in more detail with the hon. Lady.
Christopher Pincher (Tamworth) (Con)
20. By what date he expects proposed legislation to enact the green deal to enter into force.
Mr Graham Stuart (Beverley and Holderness) (Con)
22. What his policy is on recognising national climate change legislation as a commitment under the United Nations framework convention on climate change.
The Minister of State, Department of Energy and Climate Change (Gregory Barker)
Domestic legislation is desirable and demonstrates political commitment at country level. However, the UK Government believe that an international treaty is still the best and most credible way of promoting ambitious mitigation action at a global level.
Mr Stuart
I thank the Minister for his answer and agree with the point he makes, but does he agree with me that it is important to encourage and recognise national legislative action and that the global legislators’ organisation, GLOBE, should continue to bring legislators together to catalogue and push for greater action at national level in lieu of international agreement?
Gregory Barker
Absolutely, and in the absence of a global treaty, the work that GLOBE does—and my hon. Friend does very valuable work as vice-president of GLOBE International and president of GLOBE UK—including its recent study of global climate change legislation, is extremely valuable, and we certainly support it and would encourage it to go further.
Tony Baldry (Banbury) (Con)
T1. If he will make a statement on his departmental responsibilities.
Lilian Greenwood (Nottingham South) (Lab)
T4. The Government’s announcement of a minimum energy efficiency standard for private rented homes is welcome, but the hundreds of tenants in Nottingham living in cold, damp F and G-rated homes should not have to wait until 2018 for it to be introduced. I heard the Secretary of State’s reply to my hon. Friend the Member for Hyndburn (Graham Jones), but would the legislation not be more effective if a register of landlords was introduced so that they can be informed about the new standard and directed to information about the green deal and other measures that might help them to improve their properties?
The Minister of State, Department of Energy and Climate Change (Gregory Barker)
The hon. Lady is right that we are taking action to ensure that the private rented sector enjoys the full benefits of the green deal, but she is wrong to assume that tenants will only learn about this from a council information leaflet or some regulated communication. The most powerful element in driving the green deal forward will be the market, the new competition, the big retailers and the new entrants into the market. That will create a huge wave of interest across the country in all sectors.
Dr Daniel Poulter (Central Suffolk and North Ipswich) (Con)
T8. I am sure that my right hon. Friend would agree that in making the case for the green new deal, we must bring local communities with us. Onshore wind turbines are controversial in many rural communities. If we are not careful and if local authorities push ahead with wind turbines without considering other options, we run the risk of losing the support of some of our rural communities. Does he agree?
Ian Mearns (Gateshead) (Lab)
T5. The Secretary of State will be aware that the Renewable Energy Association has described the proposed tariff changes for solar photovoltaic installations over 50 kW as an “horrendous strategic mistake”. If he goes ahead with the changes, how do the Government intend to support decentralised local community energy generation in future?
Gregory Barker
I am afraid that the horrendous strategic failure was made by the last Government, who failed to put any sensible financial controls on the feed-in tariff scheme. There is plenty of scope for new innovative community schemes to take shape. Indeed, I visited one only last week in the constituency of my hon. Friend the Member for Brighton, Kemptown (Simon Kirby), and I look forward to visiting many more. We want a big push forward in decentralised energy schemes. Solar is a great technology, but it has to be affordable. We need proper controls that do not blow the budget, which is what would have happened had we not taken action.
Jo Swinson (East Dunbartonshire) (LD)
Most of the climate change debate tends to focus on mitigation and decarbonisation, but it is also important to work on adaption, such as how we respond to pressures on water supply. What plans are the Government putting in place at home and abroad to cope with the increasing pressure and also to promote new water filtration technologies, such as that promoted by FilterClear, an innovative company in my constituency that is creating green jobs and British exports, and promoting the more efficient use of water?
Gregory Barker
The hon. Lady is absolutely right. There are opportunities for green growth and innovation right across the economy, and a lot that we can do in the water sector in particular. However, that is a matter for the Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs, which is looking carefully at how we develop the green deal. Indeed, it is possible that we could see a similar programme offered in due course—perhaps a blue deal—to ensure that water-saving measures are funded in the same way. However, she is absolutely spot-on in realising the huge potential that exists.
Katy Clark (North Ayrshire and Arran) (Lab)
T7. Has there been any discussion about the geographic spread of carbon capture and storage demonstration projects? The Minister will be aware that there are a number of proposals in Scotland. Is it possible that two or even three of them might be allowed to go ahead?
Barry Gardiner (Brent North) (Lab)
Fifty per cent more CO2 emissions savings could be made in the transport sector by adopting Greener Journeys’ ONE Billion challenge for a modal shift. Will the Minister look into the efficacy of the scheme and discuss the proposal with his counterpart at the Department for Transport?
Gregory Barker
I am not familiar with the details of the scheme that the hon. Gentleman has mentioned, but I will certainly look into this and I would be happy to communicate with my colleagues at the Department for Transport.
Chris Heaton-Harris (Daventry) (Con)
Can the Secretary of State remind the House how much energy was contributed to the grid by onshore and offshore wind last December—one of the coldest periods of time on record?