Scotland Act 1998: Section 35 Power

Liz Saville Roberts Excerpts

Tuesday 17th January 2023 Commons Chamber

[Mr Jack]

We will publish the statement of reasons. On the other remarks the hon. Gentleman made, opinions may vary.

[Liz Saville Roberts (Dwyfor Meirionnydd) (PC)]

This is a calculated attack on devolution, democracy and trans rights. It is increasingly clear that this tired and bitter Tory Government will weaponise any issue, no matter how sensitive, to subvert devolution. If this is really about the Equality Act, Ministers would be referring this matter to the courts; they would not be withholding their own legal advice, but would be seen to have it tested in the courts, rather than taking, as they are, unprecedented unilateral action. What do they have to say to the Unionist Welsh Labour Minister Vaughan Gething, who today said that this UK Government undermines the Union?

[Mr Jack]

I entirely disagree. We are supporting the Union. The Scotland Act is what we believe in. Section 35 was democratically put there and we believe we must take the legal advice we have. People are telling me to read out the statement of reasons: the statement of reasons and my order have been submitted to the parliamentary authorities, and they will be available within the timeframe that those authorities decide to release them this afternoon. Hon. Members will be able to read everything they want to read there about the reasons behind the decision, but essentially it is about protecting and safeguarding women and children where we believe there are adverse effects.

Oral Answers to Questions

Liz Saville Roberts Excerpts

Wednesday 11th January 2023 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

My hon. Friend is a fantastic champion for the steel industry, and this Government remain committed to a thriving UK steel industry. That is why our support for steel includes nearly £800 million in relief for electricity costs and steel companies are eligible to bid for up to £1.5 billion in capital grant to speed their transition to net zero steel production.

[Liz Saville Roberts (Dwyfor Meirionnydd) (PC)]

I am sure the whole House will want to join me in wishing all the best to Gareth Bale, the former captain of the Wales men’s soccer team, who has been a national inspiration and who took Wales to the football World Cup.

This Tory Government attack dedicated health and ambulance staff, but disruption from strikes is as nothing compared with the chronic disruption caused every day by their 13 years of butchering health budgets. Meanwhile, Labour’s Health Secretary in Wales follows the Tory playbook, blaming patients themselves for standards of health. The reality is this: health services in Wales suffer from a combination of mismanagement by Labour and a Westminster funding system that perpetuates poverty. The Prime Minister used to talk about levelling up—[Interruption.]

[Mr Speaker]

Order. The question is far too long. The Prime Minister must have got the drift.

[Liz Saville Roberts]

Will the Prime Minister therefore commit himself to funding Wales’s public—

[Mr Speaker]

Order. I call the Prime Minister.

Scottish Referendum Legislation: Supreme Court Decision

Liz Saville Roberts Excerpts

Wednesday 23rd November 2022 Commons Chamber

[Mr Jack]

My hon. Friend makes a salient point, and he is absolutely right. The Scottish people want good public services delivered to them by a Scottish Government focused on the things that were devolved to Holyrood.

[Liz Saville Roberts (Dwyfor Meirionnydd) (PC)]

The Tryweryn vote in 1957 taught people in Wales that Welsh MPs can always be overridden by the structural tyranny of the majority here in Westminster. The First Minister of Wales, himself a Unionist, is on record as saying that the UK can be sustained only

“as a voluntary association of four nations, in which we choose to pool our sovereignty for common purposes and for common benefits.”

Given that the Labour Front-Bench team has parroted the same lines as the Tories this afternoon, will the Secretary of State write to the First Minister of Wales to confirm whether we are voluntary partners in this Union or involuntary inmates?

[Mr Jack]

No, I will not write to the First Minister of Wales. I will leave that to the Secretary of State of Wales or anyone else who feels that it is in their remit. I say to the right hon. Lady that polling shows that less than a third of Scots want another independence referendum.

COP26: Devolved Administrations

Liz Saville Roberts Excerpts

Thursday 16th September 2021 Commons Chamber

[Craig Williams (Montgomeryshire) (Con)]

It is a great privilege to rise and talk in this debate. I welcome the topic and I welcome the opportunity to discuss how we can involve the devolved Administrations in this. The first half of the speech by the hon. Member for Argyll and Bute (Brendan O’Hara) was a spectacular opening, and I pay tribute to him for that. It went downhill a bit, with a couple of political points and some charged polling. I would be interested to see who commissioned the poll and what the target audience was, but I am sure that we can take that offline to discuss it further.

Representing Montgomeryshire, I represent the Centre for Alternative Technology. The people there have been talking about this subject and devising plans since way before it was fashionable, and way before devolution. They have been at this for decades. I would have liked to hear much more in this debate about getting communities involved, more broadly than politicians and more broadly than the typical argument about the devolved Administrations being left out. Clearly, much of what needs to happen at this very important COP involves UK reserved powers.

I very much welcome the fact that the UK Government chose Glasgow and that we will be able to showcase what the devolved Administrations and many cities have led on. I welcome both the working groups that were set up early in this process to bring the DAs together with the COP President and to bring together the cities and Mayors of the United Kingdom, including Edinburgh, Manchester, Cardiff and Birmingham. They brought our huge urban conurbations together to talk about what we can do in the urban and rural space.

I thought it was remiss of the hon. Gentleman to comment about who should lead the welcomes and who should be front and centre. We need to put politics aside over the last couple of weeks before COP. We need to get behind the Prime Minister of the United Kingdom and the negotiations that are happening right now to get international leaders together. As the Centre for Alternative Technology has set out time and again, this needs to be tackled on a global basis.

I have no doubt that we will hear in this debate how the Welsh Government and the Scottish Government are world leading and the best. Maybe even the Northern Ireland Executive will feature, but let us be frank about the significant changes that have happened under this Government. Let us be frank about the fact that we have settled the climate change argument and are moving at a pace on energy distribution and on fundamental policies that have been difficult to grasp. This debate is happening in nuclear week, and there is no doubt in my mind that the nuclear industry has a huge role to play in achieving that, be that through the small modular reactors of Dwyfor Meirionnydd or through Wylfa in north Wales, a larger, more strategic site. Clearly, these are UK competences that we need to be lobbying and levering the UK Government on.

[Liz Saville Roberts (Dwyfor Meirionnydd) (PC)]

Would the hon. Gentleman nevertheless admit that his Government now need to start moving ahead from the short-term decisions that they are making, and to start making real decisions and announcements in relation to energy and how it is to be funded in future? Otherwise, I fear that we will just be making more empty words.

[Craig Williams]

The right hon. Lady and I share the campaign to get an SMR into our area of the world, and she is of course right. We on these Benches are looking to the UK Government to make these important decisions. Sizewell C hangs over all our heads across the House, as do the more practical applications of SMRs. There are important decisions to be made, but I suppose that underscores what I am trying to say about how this debate needs to focus on bringing these ideas together.

--- Later in debate ---

[Anna McMorrin (Cardiff North) (Lab)]

The scale of this climate crisis is huge and we are reaching a pivotal moment, with COP26 just weeks away. That is the time when we all need to come together, and the UK Government must show that they can lead, prove their diplomacy and bring the world together to take that urgent action that is so needed. We have seen the scale of this climate crisis; over the summer, we have seen heatwaves, flooding, forest fires and fires in the Arctic. In my constituency, I have seen devastating flooding, which has a huge human impact. There are people in my constituency who are afraid to go to bed at night when they hear heavy rain, and they take it in turns to walk around the perimeter of their area—of the roads—looking at the river levels, living for weeks on end with their furniture upstairs. That is no way to live. That means we must be acting, as this is happening not only in our own backyards—across this country, across Wales—but across the world.

Wales may be a small country, but we are one that punches above our weight. The scale and delivery of what we offer is huge, showing that the Welsh Labour Government can lead the way on action—action on cutting carbon emissions and on recycling, making us the second best in Europe and the third best in the world. I am proud to have played a part in that. I am proud that when I was a special adviser to the Welsh Government for many years we brought in those strategies, with the result that we are now leading the charge. I am proud to have helped bring in the groundbreaking Well-being of Future Generations (Wales) Act 2015, which puts sustainability at the heart of every decision the public sector makes in Wales. That is groundbreaking and it has changed how public service and the public sector work together in Wales. We also have a moratorium on road building and we have stopped fracking.

We are doing all those things in Wales to play our part, but we are not doing it alone and we cannot do it alone. We work alongside many other devolved nations and regions across the world. However, as my hon. Friend the Member for Merthyr Tydfil and Rhymney (Gerald Jones) mentioned, we are also doing it at home, establishing a super-Ministry for climate, with the Minister for Climate Change, Julie James, at the helm, overseeing energy policy, housing, planning, transport, climate and environment. All those things are in one ministry together, and the UK Government could well take a leaf out of our book in Wales.

We have seen action not only at government level, but at local community level, where we all have local community groups working well towards this; so many people understand the impact that climate has. In my community and constituency, we know the Great Big Green Week starts this week and we have many events starting. I helped to establish a local climate organisation, an environmental organisation, called Footprints, which helps build awareness of what each and every one of us can do to play our part. I also wish to mention Martine Brown, who works with my local Birchgrove Women’s Institute and has been a fantastic climate champion across the whole of Cardiff North.

Under Labour, Wales looks outward, working with other devolved nations and regions, where we know the action happens. I was fortunate to have played a key role in many COPs leading up to the Paris climate agreement. I saw the role that devolved nations and regions have to play. In the run-up to that agreement, I represented 50 states and regions across the world to make sure that in the official treaty—the official climate agreement text—it was ratified and acknowledged that these states and regions, devolved nations, play a part. It is where the action happens closer to the people. So why are Wales and devolved nations being left out in the cold at COP26? I hope the Minister can answer that in his response. Why have we had only three devolved meetings in the run-up to COP26? That is shameful.

[Liz Saville Roberts]

Will the hon. Lady join me in being concerned at how state aid is now to be reserved to this place and at the impact that will have on the good work being done in Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland?

[Anna McMorrin]

I thank the right hon. Member for that very good point. I hope that the Minister will address it in his response.

At the G7, the Prime Minister said that

“the world cannot have a prosperous future if we don’t work together to tackle climate change.”

He was absolutely right, so why cannot he and the Government work closely with the devolved nations to make that happen as a central part of this COP?

We know that developing nations are where people are most vulnerable to the climate crisis. I have spoken to many people at the front face of it, and I have talked about those in my constituency of Cardiff North, but it is people across the world in developing nations who are suffering the most. They are most vulnerable, but they do not have a seat at the table. Why not? They need that seat and they need proper finance where it is going to reach the-m.

We know that it is women who suffer most in the climate crisis—and it is women who find the solutions and the way out, keeping their families together. It is usually young girls who have to leave school early to cope and look after their family after suffering great floods or crises caused by the climate.

I hope that this Government will think again and put action over rhetoric and words. We hear great ambition and great targets, but no delivery and no action. As I mentioned in an intervention on the hon. Member for Montgomeryshire (Craig Williams), the Government continue to funnel billions into fossil fuel projects overseas. As they do that, they continue to cut aid. It does not work, and it is not compatible with tackling the climate crisis.

I hope that this is a pivotal moment, that we can come together and that the UK Government can learn from our devolved nations, work across the world and bring the world together to take action to meet the 1.5° target that is so desperately needed for the future of this planet and the future of humanity.

--- Later in debate ---

[Liz Saville Roberts (Dwyfor Meirionnydd) (PC)]

Diolch yn fawr iawn, Madam Ddirprwy Lefarydd. I am grateful to the hon. Member for Argyll and Bute (Brendan O’Hara) for securing this debate.

The summit to be held in Glasgow is a pivotal and welcome moment for the world to get climate action back on track as we look to rebuild post pandemic. It is also a welcome introduction for the world to the devolved nature of our islands’ Union. To give some context, I will quote the Prime Minister:

“I guess I don’t mind seeing a Saltire or two on that summit, but I want to see a Union flag—I don’t want to see Nicola Sturgeon anywhere near it.”

It is clear from his words that the devolved Governments have never been far from the thinking behind our collective UK approach to the COP26 summit and the pivotal role of devolved Governments in its potential success. The hon. Member for Montgomeryshire (Craig Williams) —for Sir Drefaldwyn—made a very valid point earlier, even though he made it politically: climate change extends beyond the nation state. It also starts with what we do as individuals, and of course the role of the devolved Governments is absolutely critical within that.

The Governments in Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland have long been leading lights in the UK’s climate mitigation and adaptation efforts. In Wales, our deep-seated commitment to sustainable development is enshrined in our founding constitution, I am proud to say; we have declared a climate emergency and legislated to ensure that decision making meets our global climate and justice responsibilities. In Scotland, our political cousins in the SNP, the gracious hosts of the summit, continue to implement the green transition both at home and abroad, in the latter case with a ground-breaking climate justice fund that brings much needed assistance to the global south. The same cannot be said in every case about this Government or their handling of the summit.

I recognise the work of the COP26 devolved Administrations ministerial group. I hope that today the Minister will greatly expand on the succinct communiqués—I think that is probably the best way to describe them—issued by the group to demonstrate this Government’s engagement with the devolved nations. But, as many have said already and will continue to say, actions speak louder than worders.

From support for fossil-fuel projects both at home and abroad to cuts to the overseas aid budget, inexplicable delays in key Treasury reports and the frankly shameful removal of climate commitments in trade deals, this Government have shambolically handled the dual opportunity presented as they are co-host to COP26 and the G7 president. In doing so, this Government have shown their conflict of priorities or disorganisation —we can describe it in different ways and I am sure it would be described differently on each side of the Chamber. For many people outside, and for many of our neighbours and the coalitions around the world, there will be a commentary on an obsession with display over substance, which has never been so dangerous as it is now, in that it threatens the global climate progress.

Just this week, the Scottish Government have had to step in to fund the UN conference of youth, which runs alongside COP26, after the UK Government refused. I thank the Scottish Government for remembering the fantastic efforts of the world’s youth through the Fridays for Future movement and acknowledging the need for youth engagement in climate policy, given that, in 2019, 1.2 billion people—or 16% of the global population—were aged between 15 and 24 years old. Where Westminster falters, the devolved nations lead—a truth that I hope the world will see at COP26, when it will see the reality of the relationships of the nations of the UK. When we talk about global Britain, let us remember that other structures are in play and that we need to use them to best effect.

In conclusion, the devolved Governments have long had a role to play and responsibility for climate action. Despite the best efforts of Westminster and the United Kingdom Internal Market Act 2020, they will no doubt continue to do their best. I therefore wish the Scottish Government the very best of luck with the summit, and I urge the UK Government to match the devolved Governments’ levels of ambition and engagement, to ensure that this pivotal, critical summit is a global success.

Oral Answers to Questions

Liz Saville Roberts Excerpts

Wednesday 28th April 2021 Commons Chamber

[Mr Speaker]

Let us go to Liz Saville Roberts.

[Liz Saville Roberts (Dwyfor Meirionnydd) (PC) [V]]

Diolch yn fawr, Llefarydd. I think it is worth repeating the ministerial code’s seven guiding principles: selflessness, integrity, objectivity, accountability, openness, honesty and leadership. The Prime Minister has spent the week ticking them off his “don’t do” list. At the same time, he tries to play down allegations that he said “let the bodies pile high”. Given that the sole judge on questions relating to the conduct of Ministers and the conduct of the Prime Minister is the Prime Minister himself, what happens when a Prime Minister goes rogue?

[The Prime Minister]

The people of this country have the chance to make up their own minds on 6 May. When they look at what is happening in Wales, they have a chance to make a choice between, I am afraid, a continually failing Welsh Labour Government or a Welsh Conservative Administration in Cardiff who I believe have a fantastic vision: 65,000 high-skilled, high-paid jobs; finally addressing the problems of the A55; 5,000 more teachers; getting 3,000 more nurses into the Welsh NHS; and solving the problems of the M4, which I have spoken about so movingly many times in this Chamber. I hope that people will avoid voting for Plaid Cymru and that they will vote for Welsh Conservatives on 6 May in Wales.

Migration and Scotland

Liz Saville Roberts Excerpts

Tuesday 11th February 2020 Commons Chamber

[Liz Saville Roberts (Dwyfor Meirionnydd) (PC)]

Surely the Minister must agree that what we are seeing is the jagged edge of devolution. Powers are being given on health and developing the economy, yet the Open University business barometer estimates that it will cost businesses in Wales £150 million a year to try to fill the skills gap. What we do not have, just as in Scotland, is the means to fill that skills gap tailor-made for Wales. That is the jagged edge of devolution, and it is not allowing us to develop properly.

[Douglas Ross]

I have experienced politics in Scotland for a long time, and I believe the Scottish Parliament has a great deal of powers to improve the lives of the people of Scotland—the problem is the people currently operating those powers; the SNP Government are letting down the people of Scotland.

We have already announced the creation of a new graduate route, which will help our world-leading universities, including those in Scotland, to continue to attract talented young people, and allow students to stay and apply for work for up to two years after they graduate. It is important that these changes are introduced to the United Kingdom as a whole. Under the devolution settlement, immigration is reserved, and it is right that it continues to be so. It is also better for those using the system, both migrants and those who sponsor them, such as employers and educational institutions. There are many workers whose jobs are necessarily peripatetic, and trying to pin a worker down to a particular location is not a straightforward proposition. An assessment of an individual’s tax code would not be sufficient to determine their immigration status. It might indicate where an employee spends some of their time or even where a company’s head office is—for example, where payroll is managed—but it would not provide any certainty as to where an employee spends the bulk of their working time.

Let us imagine the burden for an employer who is constantly having to determine whether he or she can deploy particular workers to certain areas depending on the terms of their visa. Let us consider the example of an engineer who works for a company that has several contracts in both England and Scotland. Could a migrant on a Scottish visa fulfil that role? I foresee significant complications and litigation resulting from that.

Oral Answers to Questions

Liz Saville Roberts Excerpts

Wednesday 8th May 2019 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

I take this further opportunity to congratulate the new leader of North East Lincolnshire, his new councillors and the whole Conservative council group on taking control of North East Lincolnshire last week, and indeed to congratulate my hon. Friend on his work in campaigning to secure that excellent result. He is absolutely right; he and the council leader made that point about the town deal, and I will facilitate meetings between my hon. Friend, the council leader and the Ministers responsible.

[Liz Saville Roberts (Dwyfor Meirionnydd) (PC)]

I call on the House to celebrate 20 years of devolution, and I look forward to the nation of Wales taking our proper place among the nations of Europe.

Today, 32-year-old Imam Şiş of Newport is on his 143rd day of indefinite hunger strike, and the condition of his health is now critical. He is one of many Kurds on hunger strike around the world, including four others in the UK, protesting the treatment of Kurdish leader Abdullah Öcalan, who is imprisoned in Turkey and whose human rights are clearly breached by the Turkish Government. The hon. Member for Newport East (Jessica Morden) and I, along with 48 other MPs and Welsh Assembly Members, have today written to the Foreign Secretary asking him to apply pressure on Turkey to uphold the human rights of the Kurds. I am confident that the Prime Minister respects the urgency and gravity of the situation. Will she please commit to intervening?

[The Prime Minister]

The right hon. Lady has raised an important issue. We absolutely expect Turkey to undertake any legal processes against prisoners fairly, transparently and with full respect for the rule of law. That includes ensuring access to appropriate medical treatment. The British ambassador in Ankara has discussed the wider issue of hunger strikes with the Turkish authorities, but we will continue to encourage the Turkish state to uphold the human rights of hunger striking detainees, including access to medical treatment. As the right hon. Lady says, she and others have written to the Foreign Secretary, and I will ensure that the Foreign Secretary addresses the issue urgently.

Sewel Convention

Liz Saville Roberts Excerpts

Monday 18th June 2018 Commons Chamber

[Liz Saville Roberts (Dwyfor Meirionnydd) (PC)]

Diolch yn fawr, Llefarydd. It is an honour to be the first to speak for Wales in the debate this evening. I welcome the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster and Minister for the Cabinet Office, the right hon. Member for Aylesbury (Mr Lidington), back to his seat, from which he has been absent for much of the debate.

It is impossible to overstate the seismic implications of Brexit for Wales. At the heart of this debate is how the British state will function post Brexit and what the British state considers to be normal. We can no longer assume that the rightful trajectory of power coming closer to the people will continue in the way it has done since 1997. What we are facing is a shock tactic, a vortex of centralisation, a self-affirmation of self-interest in sovereignty by and for Westminster.

What will this mean in practice? We have been talking about 24 powers, haven’t we? Well, in Wales there has been some mission creep, with two more—state aid and food geographical indications—to make it 26 powers. That means something in practice for Wales. It will mean the denial of state aid for threatened industries, such as steel, by a Government who believe in an unfettered free market. It will mean an agricultural policy no longer designed to protect farming and the rural economy, and all that means for Wales in terms of the environment, our language and our culture. It will mean slash and burn procurement policies hardwired to ignore social and community benefits of public expenditure. It will mean enabling once again the selling-off of Wales’s fish stocks to the highest bidder, something our Government should have been able to prevent and will now not be able to do.

Developing common frameworks for the UK as a whole should require mature co-operation between the national Governments of the UK, and should not be a case of one country asset-stripping powers from the others to impose a once-size-fits-all England-first framework across all the UK’s countries. Yet at the very same time, Westminster will only be bound by political promises while the devolved Governments face legal constraints—Westminster acting again as judge and jury.

The disregard for Welsh democracy is endemic. Despite Labour’s half-baked attempt at improving the power grab clause, the people of Wales would be forgiven for thinking the Opposition and the Tory Government were colluding to deny Wales its voice. To rub salt into an already aggravated wound, the Labour party needlessly pressed ahead with 11 consecutive votes, some of which were duplicates that it knew full well would lose, all the while eating into time for the devolution debate. Not only did the Labour party facilitate the farce of a debate that took place last Tuesday, with the exception of one hon. Gentleman it abstained. I note the presence of just one Labour Member from Wales this evening. Labour abstained on amendments that took powers away from our National Assembly for Wales.

It speaks volumes for the lack of respect on the part of the British Government that they are ploughing ahead with the Bill before the Supreme Court reaches a verdict on the Scottish continuity Bill. As we know, as part of the deal between the Unionist parties, the Labour Welsh Government agreed to withdraw the Welsh continuity Bill and its referral to court. In what can only be described as a convoluted turn of events, I understand that the Labour Welsh Government have requested to re-participate in the Scottish continuity Bill Supreme Court case, but this time, as obedient good Unionists, in defence of the UK Government’s position.

When my party argued in favour of remain in 2016, we did so because we believed—and believe—that small nations like Wales are served better sitting alongside the other successful small nations of Europe as equals. We argued that the inbuilt inequality of the UK would make Wales expendable political collateral to the overriding interests of England. And we were right. While Tory and Labour Unionists—40 MPs, remember, out of 650; look at the maths for how the inequality is written in—work hand in glove, I am confident that Brexit will be a landmark in the journey Wales takes to our own conclusion. Only our own, radical solutions will prove the answer to our needs. Westminster and its parties will always treat Wales like an adjunct, an afterthought, an inconvenience. All that does is make the case for Welsh political independence.