COP26: Devolved Administrations

Anna McMorrin Excerpts

Thursday 16th September 2021 Commons Chamber

[Craig Williams]

I was here when the hon. Member asked that question, and I heard the answer. It was a very good answer. I remember the Prime Minister emphasising coal, and that was not just words; it was clear action. I do not think anyone in the Chamber could doubt the reduction of coal in our energy network, and that has been due to clear action by this Government, putting their money where their mouth is. I would welcome a further debate on fossil fuels.

[Anna McMorrin (Cardiff North) (Lab)]

Does the hon. Member not realise, though, that his Government continue to funnel billions into fossil fuel projects overseas, locking communities into the fossil fuel age for generations?

[Craig Williams]

Clearly that is being phased out, but the hon. Member will know that her constituents expect a fair energy price. We need to transition carefully to new technologies—[Interruption.] I am sure she will have an opportunity to make a speech soon.

I want to bring my remarks to a conclusion, because I know that other Members want to talk in this important debate. Hopefully, to change the tone from some of what Opposition Members have said, this is about bringing together communities, businesses and third parties such as the Centre for Alternative Technology. Rather than have a fuzzy, politically charged constitutional debate, the UK Government have taken COP to Scotland, which is brilliant. There is no doubt a role for the Scottish Government, as the Prime Minister has said, but these international negotiations are clearly led by the UK Government. We must work together as a family of nations, but we cannot have a constitutional debate on the sidelines as it would distract attention and not help with the important matters at hand.

I implore SNP Members that, if they really want to put their mouth where these issues are, the next couple of weeks are critical. They should get behind the negotiation process and the communities that want to see real action. It is incredibly clear that politically charged comments such as “We want our First Minister to be at the head of the queue” add nothing.

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[Anna McMorrin (Cardiff North) (Lab)]

The scale of this climate crisis is huge and we are reaching a pivotal moment, with COP26 just weeks away. That is the time when we all need to come together, and the UK Government must show that they can lead, prove their diplomacy and bring the world together to take that urgent action that is so needed. We have seen the scale of this climate crisis; over the summer, we have seen heatwaves, flooding, forest fires and fires in the Arctic. In my constituency, I have seen devastating flooding, which has a huge human impact. There are people in my constituency who are afraid to go to bed at night when they hear heavy rain, and they take it in turns to walk around the perimeter of their area—of the roads—looking at the river levels, living for weeks on end with their furniture upstairs. That is no way to live. That means we must be acting, as this is happening not only in our own backyards—across this country, across Wales—but across the world.

Wales may be a small country, but we are one that punches above our weight. The scale and delivery of what we offer is huge, showing that the Welsh Labour Government can lead the way on action—action on cutting carbon emissions and on recycling, making us the second best in Europe and the third best in the world. I am proud to have played a part in that. I am proud that when I was a special adviser to the Welsh Government for many years we brought in those strategies, with the result that we are now leading the charge. I am proud to have helped bring in the groundbreaking Well-being of Future Generations (Wales) Act 2015, which puts sustainability at the heart of every decision the public sector makes in Wales. That is groundbreaking and it has changed how public service and the public sector work together in Wales. We also have a moratorium on road building and we have stopped fracking.

We are doing all those things in Wales to play our part, but we are not doing it alone and we cannot do it alone. We work alongside many other devolved nations and regions across the world. However, as my hon. Friend the Member for Merthyr Tydfil and Rhymney (Gerald Jones) mentioned, we are also doing it at home, establishing a super-Ministry for climate, with the Minister for Climate Change, Julie James, at the helm, overseeing energy policy, housing, planning, transport, climate and environment. All those things are in one ministry together, and the UK Government could well take a leaf out of our book in Wales.

We have seen action not only at government level, but at local community level, where we all have local community groups working well towards this; so many people understand the impact that climate has. In my community and constituency, we know the Great Big Green Week starts this week and we have many events starting. I helped to establish a local climate organisation, an environmental organisation, called Footprints, which helps build awareness of what each and every one of us can do to play our part. I also wish to mention Martine Brown, who works with my local Birchgrove Women’s Institute and has been a fantastic climate champion across the whole of Cardiff North.

Under Labour, Wales looks outward, working with other devolved nations and regions, where we know the action happens. I was fortunate to have played a key role in many COPs leading up to the Paris climate agreement. I saw the role that devolved nations and regions have to play. In the run-up to that agreement, I represented 50 states and regions across the world to make sure that in the official treaty—the official climate agreement text—it was ratified and acknowledged that these states and regions, devolved nations, play a part. It is where the action happens closer to the people. So why are Wales and devolved nations being left out in the cold at COP26? I hope the Minister can answer that in his response. Why have we had only three devolved meetings in the run-up to COP26? That is shameful.

[Liz Saville Roberts]

Will the hon. Lady join me in being concerned at how state aid is now to be reserved to this place and at the impact that will have on the good work being done in Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland?

[Anna McMorrin]

I thank the right hon. Member for that very good point. I hope that the Minister will address it in his response.

At the G7, the Prime Minister said that

“the world cannot have a prosperous future if we don’t work together to tackle climate change.”

He was absolutely right, so why cannot he and the Government work closely with the devolved nations to make that happen as a central part of this COP?

We know that developing nations are where people are most vulnerable to the climate crisis. I have spoken to many people at the front face of it, and I have talked about those in my constituency of Cardiff North, but it is people across the world in developing nations who are suffering the most. They are most vulnerable, but they do not have a seat at the table. Why not? They need that seat and they need proper finance where it is going to reach the-m.

We know that it is women who suffer most in the climate crisis—and it is women who find the solutions and the way out, keeping their families together. It is usually young girls who have to leave school early to cope and look after their family after suffering great floods or crises caused by the climate.

I hope that this Government will think again and put action over rhetoric and words. We hear great ambition and great targets, but no delivery and no action. As I mentioned in an intervention on the hon. Member for Montgomeryshire (Craig Williams), the Government continue to funnel billions into fossil fuel projects overseas. As they do that, they continue to cut aid. It does not work, and it is not compatible with tackling the climate crisis.

I hope that this is a pivotal moment, that we can come together and that the UK Government can learn from our devolved nations, work across the world and bring the world together to take action to meet the 1.5° target that is so desperately needed for the future of this planet and the future of humanity.

[Several hon. Members rose—]

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[Nick Fletcher (Don Valley) (Con)]

Despite being an MP who represents an English constituency, I believe it is important that Unionists, wherever they are from, speak up for the benefits of the United Kingdom. The “United Kingdom”; I love saying that. “British steel”, “British made”, “United Kingdom”—they all come together. I love the fact that we are a great Union together.

The United Kingdom is a world leader in tackling climate change. We are the first major economy to set a legally binding target to achieve net zero.

[Anna McMorrin]

I think the hon. Gentleman has missed the point of this debate, which is about the role of the devolved Administrations.

[Nick Fletcher]

I thank the hon. Lady for her comment, but all four nations come together to create the United Kingdom.

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[Anna McMorrin]

The hon. Member is making some excellent points about local community initiatives. Does he agree though that some things need the impetus and leadership of the UK Government, particularly on waste? At the moment, there are still 3 million items of non-recyclable packaging being produced every single day.

[Simon Baynes]

I agree that the UK Government do play a vital role in this, and I take on board the point that the hon. Lady is making about waste, but I will come on to other aspects of what the UK Government can do later in my speech.

The Prime Minister has said that there is a huge role for Wales and the Welsh Government, stating:

“It’s a huge undertaking by the whole of the UK…Every part of the UK is now working together…to lead the world to get everyone to commit to net-zero by 2050”.

I know that UK Government Ministers frequently speak with their Welsh Government counterparts at the COP26 devolved Administrations ministerial group and liaise with the Welsh Government’s new Minister for Climate Change. As a strong supporter of the Union, I am pleased that the Welsh Government have said that they plan to attend COP26 as part of the UK delegation, as well as to join events with key international networks such as the Under2 Coalition and Regions4. They have also said that they are working closely with event organisers. The future generations commissioner has said that COP26 represents “significant opportunities” for Wales to showcase its achievements in tackling climate change “on a global platform”, and that the Welsh Government have been in discussions with COP26, including on hosting fringe events.

Let me turn to one of the more contentious issues that we have heard about this afternoon. If I may, I will summarise it using the words of the hon. Member for Bath (Wera Hobhouse), for whose work and commitment to the environment and climate change I have very high respect. She used the word “transitioning”, which is really important in this debate, because I honestly do not think that any of the devolved Administrations or the UK Government get everything right all the time.

I take on board the point of my hon. Friend the Member for Montgomeryshire about having an inclusive debate, but I would constructively suggest that there are areas for improvement by the Welsh Government. For example, they have been slow to establish long-term arrangements for environmental governance. The Interim Office for Environmental Protection is now up and running in England, but the Welsh Government have ruled out joining the OEP and are instead looking to establish a commissioner for the environment. This brings delays—and that is my point about transitioning.

Another such example is that, despite committing to introducing a clean air Act, the Welsh Government have announced that it will not be introduced in the coming parliamentary year. Again, the delay is disappointing. I am sure that some Labour Members could provide constructive explanations as to why the delays are taking place, but delays there are. We should really respect the point made by my hon. Friend the Member for Don Valley (Nick Fletcher) that transitioning to the great climate change revolution that we all want is not always the easiest thing to achieve.

I return to the point made by the hon. Member for Cardiff North (Anna McMorrin) about the UK Government’s involvement. I am pleased that the Government have committed £90 million to innovative Welsh net zero projects across the country. Wales has the opportunity to benefit from further UK funding, including the active £289 million industrial energy transformation fund, the £250 million clean steel fund, the £240 million net zero hydrogen fund, and the £1 billion carbon capture and storage infrastructure fund. I feel strongly that the UK Government, just like the devolved Administrations, are playing a constructive part in the process.

I join hon. Members from across the UK in my optimism and best wishes for the conference, which the eyes of the world will be following, and I look forward to continuing to champion the role of Wales and the UK in rising to the greatest challenge of our age.

[Deidre Brock (Edinburgh North and Leith) (SNP)]

Once again, I am struck by a welcome and rare note of consensus across the House on this subject, and the sincere efforts of Members across parties to suggest areas where Governments might make further progress in their drive towards net zero and in creating the truly successful COP that we all want to see. Our planet depends on it, and it is heartening that many Members seem to recognise that. There were too many moments to pick out specifically, as I am conscious of time. Several questions were posed to the Minister, to which I am sure we will be interested to hear the answers, but it appears that the House is of one mind—or at least those Members present are.

Let me just quickly point out to the hon. Member for Montgomeryshire (Craig Williams), in answer to his question to my hon. Friend the Member for Argyll and Bute (Brendan O’Hara) about the poll showing the people of Scotland’s preference for the First Minister to represent them at COP, that that was part of a wider opinion poll that, by the way, also showed the SNP taking every seat in Scotland at a Westminster election and support for independence in the majority.

Scotland’s abundance of renewable energy resources is widely recognised. It is reckoned that Scotland has won the renewables bonanza, with marine offshore wind and green hydrogen production just a few of the exciting possibilities that we are looking to develop much further. In the last year, 97% of Scotland’s electricity came from renewable sources. We also managed to reduce emissions by 31% between 2008 and 2018—faster than the rest of the UK and any G20 nation. Of course, there is much more progress to be made to achieve the ambitions that we all have for emissions reductions, but we are in a fair place, with plenty more to come.

The sixth carbon budget published by the Climate Change Committee said:

“UK climate targets cannot be met without strong policy action across Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland, tailored for national, regional and local needs… frameworks in Wales and Scotland are ahead of the rest of the UK in emphasising the importance of the potential health and environment benefits, and the need for a just transition.”

I have mentioned just a few of the areas in which Scotland is playing its part in addressing the world’s climate emergency—I will be sharing others with the House shortly—but I think those examples serve to demonstrate why the UK Government should be welcoming the genuine participation of the devolved Governments in COP26: they have very good stories to tell in their own right. I would have thought that a Government who were confident in themselves and their own achievements would be prepared to recognise and promote those stories at this vital climate conference. Scotland not only is providing the stage and setting for COP, but has offered a leading example in many of the areas that need to be tackled.

The Scottish Government have submitted an indicative nationally determined contribution. I understand that it is the first time that a devolved Government, city or region have presented their plans in the format required of nation state parties to the Paris agreement. Scotland also has the world’s first climate justice fund, which was recently doubled, and which supports vulnerable communities in Malawi, Zambia and Rwanda. We are European co-chair of the Under2 Coalition—a group of more than 220 Governments, representing more than 1.3 billion people and 43% of the global economy—and were one of the first Governments in the world to set binding net zero targets earlier than 2045. We have ambitions to be the world’s first net zero aviation region by 2040 and to decarbonise passenger rail by 2035. There is so much more, but I hope that that short taster convinces Members and the Government that Scotland’s measures more than warrant our inclusion at the heart of the negotiations.

There has been good co-operation on the considerable logistics around the COP. That is to be welcomed and shows that the Governments are more than capable of pulling together on this vital issue. We welcome the assurances from Ministers that the full costs of policing, transport and other services will be met by the UK Government, as has been agreed. It is, of course, also welcome that the COP President decided to set up meetings with Ministers from the devolved Administrations, stating as he did so:

“All parts of the UK will have important roles to play in ensuring the summit’s success”.

However, he will know that, without enabling their meaningful involvement at COP, that exercise is in danger of looking like just box-ticking; and the right hon. Member for Dwyfor Meirionnydd (Liz Saville Roberts) has already mentioned the rather brusque communiqués that have issued forth from those meetings. I urge the COP President and the UK Government to give serious consideration to the involvement of the devolved Administrations in the negotiations themselves. That would give additional weight to the Government’s influence and credibility.

[Anna McMorrin]

The hon. Member is making some excellent points on the role of the devolved Administrations in the negotiations themselves. In a past career, I was involved in those negotiations, playing a part with Wales and Scotland along with the UK. It is so important that all parts of the UK are involved in the negotiations themselves. I hope that the Minister will answer that point today.

[Deidre Brock]

I thank the hon. Lady. I absolutely agree and I am looking forward to the Minister’s response on this.

As I say, the involvement of the devolved Administrations in the negotiations would give much more additional weight to the Government’s influence and credibility, which, I am afraid, particularly following their decision to cut £4 billion from international aid support and the consequent impact on many mitigation and adaptation projects in developing countries, is on a bit of a shoogly peg. It has been significantly diminished, to the COP President’s considerable dismay, I am sure.

As the Leader of the House said this morning, COP presents an opportunity to encourage others in the right direction. Scotland’s participation, and Wales’s and Northern Ireland’s, would surely point to the ambitious targets that can be set and the rapid progress that can be achieved, and would serve as a tremendous example of the differences that can be made quite rapidly by even a medium-sized country in its approach to this global crisis. A recent report by the Pembina Institute in Canada concluded:

“None of the oil-and gas-producing provinces are preparing for the decline of oil and gas with”

inclusive, equitable

“transition plans and sufficient measures to deal with fossil fuel liabilities”.

Scotland, on the other hand, has just announced a £500 million addition to its just transition funding, with our First Minister making it clear that the destruction wrought on the mining communities by Government policies in the ’80s would not be repeated. As she said, failing to plan for the transition to net zero is not an option. As my hon. Friend the Member for Argyll and Bute mentioned, it would be good to see the UK Government commit to match-fund that amount, at least. After all, the Exchequer has done pretty well out of Scotland’s oil and gas profits for decades now. It is surely right that there is some recognition of that and that some of that money is returned to Scotland, and the north-east, to assist the tens of thousands of people currently employed to shift to employment in our burgeoning renewables sector, among other opportunities.

Scotland’s Just Transition Commission, formed in 2019 by the Scottish Government, produced a report this year, the recommendations of which were all accepted in full by the Scottish Government. A new version of the commission that the Government intend to seek advice from over the life of this Parliament was announced just a couple of days ago. It is worth reminding the House that, in areas the Prime Minister has focused on in his 10-point plan for the UK, such as forestry, electric vehicles and finance, Scotland already leads the way. Scotland already contributes the vast majority of the percentage of plantings to the UK overall figures and recently announced a further £20 million for peatland restoration. We were the first to set ambitions for no new petrol or diesel cars. We created the first climate justice fund in the world. I look forward to the UK Government following suit on that, as it would send an extremely powerful message internationally.

As Scotland and Wales play their part, so we know that our targets cannot be met without similarly strenuous efforts by the UK Government. As my hon. Friend mentioned, we have been looking at renewables on the Scottish Affairs Committee, and our report on aspects of that topic is due out on Friday. Obviously, I cannot refer directly to its contents, but we have heard from a variety of experts on the impact that the unfair transmission grid charging system is having on renewables development in Scotland. Ofgem has been reviewing that outdated approach, since 2018, I believe, but perhaps the UK Government could have a word in its collective shell-like and get it to put its skates on to arrive at a proposal that does not penalise those developers wishing to take advantage of Scotland’s many natural energy resources.

Turning to other areas that my hon. Friend alluded to, carbon capture and storage has been rather kicked from pillar to post over the years, with two carbon capture and storage competitions announced, run and then pulled, at a cost of some £140 million, sadly, just before it looked as if the St Fergus cluster in Scotland was going to win out. We know UK climate targets cannot be met without strong policy action. The St Fergus cluster is by far the most advanced, having established capabilities and in-place supply chains, and deserves to be, I hope, one of the two selected early on in the current competition for increased UK Government investment. I also urge the Government to engage more substantially with the Under2 Coalition on a formal role for states and regions in the negotiations and on the agreement.

We have all seen newspaper reports of silly games being played by Whitehall advisers over how they can cut Scottish Ministers out of participation at COP, but a positive outcome from COP is so much more important than such pettiness. Surely there could be no better sign that the UK is comfortable with being a country of four nations than to invite Scottish Ministers and others into the negotiations to help the UK to deliver the most successful COP26 outcome possible.

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[David Duguid]

I am sure that the hon. Gentleman’s constituent will appreciate that mention. With regards to the role of devolved Administrations—the key point of the debate—the COP26 devolved Administration ministerial group, which the COP President-designate chairs, ensures effective engagement and collaboration on COP26 with Ministers in all the devolved Administrations. The most recent one, which I was delighted to attend, took place yesterday. The CPD also regularly speaks to the relevant Scottish Government Minister, Michael Matheson MSP, on the operational matters that I described earlier.

On the role of First Ministers, all parts of the UK will have important roles to play in ensuring the summit’s success in line with precedents, and we expect First Ministers and Ministers from the devolved Administrations to play a role, including as part of the UK delegation. The Prime Minister has said that he wants the First Ministers to play an important role. Discussions are ongoing.

Before I conclude—we are pushed for time—I will reflect on a few things said by the CPD in response to a Scottish Parliament Committee this morning. He said that the UK Government welcome the devolved Administrations providing further views on where they wish to be involved. The UK Government will shortly engage with the Presiding Officers of all the devolved legislatures to invite Members to express an interest in attending COP26 in the blue zone. He has ongoing engagement in chairing the UK Mayors and Regions Advisory Council, which includes input from mayors and councils across the United Kingdom.

[Anna McMorrin]

Will the Minister give way?

[David Duguid]

Yes, I will take one last intervention before I conclude.

[Anna McMorrin]

I thank the Minister for being generous. Will the devolved Administrations be within the negotiating team in the delegation? Will they be in the room, taking part in the delegation?