Oil and Gas Producers: Windfall Tax

Lee Rowley Excerpts

Tuesday 1st February 2022 Commons Chamber

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy (Lee Rowley)]

Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker, for giving me the opportunity to open yet another Opposition day debate on behalf of the Government.

Another chunk of time has rightly been set aside for Her Majesty’s Opposition to explain their mature approach to politics—their open and transparent methods for taking difficult decisions or balancing nuanced trade-offs—and to articulate their thought-through programme for government if, heaven forbid, they ever win an election. At least, that is what I assumed these Opposition day debates would be like, as a new Minister. Now, on my fourth in relatively quick succession, I realise that that is not the purpose of such debates at all. How foolish of me to assume such laudable ideas when, instead, we are presented with further half-baked, sensationalist ideas solely for the headlines. We can do better than this.

None the less, let me try again to make sense—[Interruption.] If Opposition Members would give me a moment, I will try to make sense of the motion for which they are about to argue. The motion splices together two very important matters, the cost of living and business taxation, in a proposition whose coherence is inversely proportional to its attempt to grab the headlines. As this is a motion of two halves awkwardly coupled together for effect by the Opposition Front Bench, I will take each half in turn.

First, on the cost of living and in the spirit of being constructive, I will try to find areas where we can agree. There is no doubt that this is a difficult time, with rising energy prices, growing demand, stretched supply chains and the most unique set of economic and political circumstances in a century. Latent demand has been held back across the world by health factors, with countries competing among themselves to serve people, businesses and society.

I acknowledge the concern of industry, businesses and consumers. The right hon. Member for Doncaster North (Edward Miliband) may be wrong on many things, but he is right that this is a challenging time. I make it clear that the Government are committed to working with industry, businesses and consumers, both now and over the long term. We know some things are challenging at the moment, and we will continue our extensive engagement with them, not least the large energy users, businesses, consumer groups and energy retailers, to consider what action may be necessary.

[Alan Brown]

The right hon. Member for Doncaster North (Edward Miliband) pointed out that Ofgem will be setting the cap in just a few days’ time, so there is no point in this endless consultation looking ahead. What will the Treasury do in the here and now to mitigate the energy cap rise?

[Lee Rowley]

I will come to that in a moment, just as I will come to the sedentary exhortations from the right hon. Member for Islington South and Finsbury (Emily Thornberry).

[Emily Thornberry (Islington South and Finsbury) (Lab)]

Get on with it.

[Lee Rowley]

If I were not being heckled, I might get on with it.

As most of the House knows, and as most reasonable people will accept, the recent rise in energy prices in the United Kingdom has largely been driven by the increase in the wholesale price of gas caused by growing demand and broader geopolitical issues as we emerge from the pandemic. Those price rises are visible across many parts of Europe and beyond, and they demonstrate the importance of long-term security of supply and energy resilience, to which I will return in a moment.

With that in mind, it is important to answer the questions that have been asked, although it was wholly absent from the speech of the right hon. Member for Doncaster North that the Government are already doing much to support those in the greatest need.

[Clive Lewis (Norwich South) (Lab)]

rose—

--- Later in debate ---

[Lee Rowley]

If the hon. Gentleman will give me a moment, I will try to answer these questions. The first solution is the warm home discount scheme, which provides support for household energy bills through rebates, helping households stay warm and healthy in winter. The scheme currently provides more than 2 million low-income and vulnerable households with more than a £100 rebate on their winter energy bill, and a further consultation is under way on whether that is to be expanded.

Secondly, the winter fuel payment from the Department for Work and Pensions is worth between £100 and £300 and is paid automatically to those in receipt of the state pension and other social security benefits. Thirdly, the cold weather payment is a £25 payment to vulnerable households on qualifying benefits when the weather is, or is expected to be, unusually cold.

Fourthly, last autumn the DWP announced a £500 million household support fund to help those most in need during the winter, which includes provision for utility costs, including energy. Longer-term energy schemes are also assisting, and every year more and more people are having their home insulated or upgraded to reduce their energy bills for the long term.

[Jonathan Edwards (Carmarthen East and Dinefwr) (Ind)]

The Minister is right to say that we are in a unique position, but that requires a unique policy response. He will know that the most vulnerable are at risk from inflationary pressures, especially in energy prices. We are looking at inflation of 6%. When the rates for social protection were set in September, inflation was 3%. Do we not need a unique response just for this situation and this year, to reset those levels to reflect the true cost of living in April?

[Lee Rowley]

I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for his intervention. The reason I articulate and go through existing programmes and policies that have already been done is because hon. Members, such as the right hon. Member for Islington South and Finsbury (Emily Thornberry)—[Interruption.] She continues to heckle from a sedentary position. She absolutely refuses to acknowledge that the Government are doing a substantial amount and, as has been indicated, we will continue to look at what else we can do in the coming days, weeks and months ahead. We of course recognise that the immediate situation is challenging, but it would be remiss of the Opposition to refuse to acknowledge the significant immediate help and the long-term subsidy going in to support those who need assistance with energy costs. As I have said, the Government remain committed to working with all to see what more can be done.

Let us turn to the second part of the motion. As the House knows, taxation matters are dealt with by the Treasury. As hon. Members are aware, and as Governments of all colours have regularly reminded them from this Dispatch Box over many decades, all taxes are kept under review. Yet given that the Opposition want to couple the cost of living with fiscal matters such as this, let me say a few words about this particular rabbit out of the hat from the Labour party—its big idea; its solution to the problem. This money will no doubt be spent multiple times, as it always is, and on multiple causes in the multiple Opposition day debates ahead. This is the Labour party’s generous offer, to take the words of the right hon. Member for Doncaster North a moment ago, and its reason to be cheerful. I confess, following the right hon. Gentleman’s speech, that if this Miliverse is the reason to be cheerful, we should all be very gloomy. I am none the wiser about the ultimate purpose of what the Labour party proposes. Its objective is mystifying. Its aim is confused.

So what is the purpose? Is it simply a money source? Or are we instead talking about the use of the tax system for something more fundamental? The right hon. Gentleman talks about the long term, but he should also recognise that short-term decisions are required. Either way, he should be clear about the position he argues for and its implications. If this is to be a money source, the best way to maximise that money—both at the time the Opposition presumably want to implement this, and then in the future when they inevitably come back for more money—is to maximise the amount of oil and gas coming out of the ground.

[Janet Daby (Lewisham East) (Lab)]

The Conservative party has received more than £1.5 million in donations from companies and individuals linked to the oil and gas sector. Is it not the case that although some Conservative Members want a windfall tax to help their constituents, they and their Government are not prepared to stand up to vested interests?

[Lee Rowley]

What is the case with this Government is that we will take decisions in a proportionate and reasonable manner, rather than using Opposition day debates and the half-baked motions underneath them to make decisions as a result.

The right hon. Member for Doncaster North needs to be clear whether this is a money source. If it is, he will need to maximise the amount of oil and gas coming out of the ground. That exact principle of maximising economic recovery has been the building block of the approach to the North sea over many decades. If that is the case, the Labour party should be clear about that—we will welcome it to the reality-based community—and that the transition to net zero will take time and will require the use of conventional energy to get there. The right hon. Gentleman needs to understand the logic of his position.

The Labour party now appears in favour of encouraging as much activity on the UK continental shelf as possible so it can tax it. The Labour party needs to accept that oil and gas will be a significant part of the future of the UK’s energy supply for the coming decades during the transition, if only because it wants the money that comes with that. I presume that the Labour party will therefore immediately go out and proclaim to its friends and fellow travellers who shout about keeping it in the ground that that is not possible, advisable or practical, and that it has made a political choice to keep the oil and gas flowing because it wants the money that comes with it.

The Labour party will presumably be withdrawing its opposition to further exploration as a result, because if it is all about the money, the taxes and the spending, by default it also has to be about the exploration, the extraction and the production. That is the choice that the right hon. Member for Doncaster North has made in coupling the two propositions together as he has done in his own motion.

[Tim Loughton]

My hon. Friend is being far too gentle on the Labour party. Is what we have heard from it not completely disingenuous? It has suggested a cut in VAT, which of course we can only do because we are out of the EU, which it voted against leaving. That cut would bring in a 5% reduction against what will possibly be a 50% rise in energy prices, so it would be a drop in the ocean. In addition, we have just heard that the windfall tax on profits—profits that do not exist at the moment—would bring in £1.2 billion, another drop in the ocean of the problem that we need to address. The Labour party is trying to con us into thinking that that is the answer to the problem that we will have. It is not.

[Lee Rowley]

My hon. Friend makes a number of hugely important and powerful points.

[Matt Western]

rose—

[Lee Rowley]

The hon. Gentleman has been waiting for a long time, so I am happy to give way.

[Matt Western]

The Minister is being generous with his time. We need to put his point about the drop in the ocean and the value of £1.5 billion in the context of the £4.3 billion that the Treasury has just written off. We are talking about not dissimilar sums of money, are we not?

[Lee Rowley]

I am very glad that the hon. Gentleman raises that point. I am not sure whether he was present at the end of the last debate, but it was made clear from this Dispatch Box that that is not the case in the slightest. This Government will continue to pursue the recovery of as much of that money as possible. The Labour party can keep repeating the point if it wants, but it would not be fair, accurate or real to do so.

To come back to the Opposition motion, if it is not all about the money, the motivation has to be different. If that is the case, the Labour party should just be clear. The right hon. Member for Doncaster North knows that policy actions have consequences and decisions have reactions. He has put forward a specific proposal for a windfall tax, so he should be held to account for it.

The implications of a windfall tax structured in such a way would have to fall somewhere: on consumers, on investors or on the activity itself. I assume that the Labour party does not propose to go after consumers or to reject the idea of oil and gas as a commodity, so ultimately it will have to be the investors who shoulder the burden. If so, the right hon. Gentleman should be clear that he is expecting less of a return for pension funds and therefore for pensioners and the many hundreds of thousands of people out there who are reliant on the performance of the stock market to ensure that they can be supported in old age.

Perhaps the proposal is just a blunt tool to reduce production in general. If so, the right hon. Gentleman should just say so. That certainly seems to be the inference to draw from his statements today, and from his questions over recent weeks to other Government Front Benchers. It does not sound as if he is simply looking for a source of money to fund others; it does not sound as if he is seeking to maximise economic return; it sounds as if he is deliberately trying to penalise activity on the UK continental shelf and, if possible, to reduce it. If that is the case, he should say so out loud, because then will we know.

[Sarah Olney (Richmond Park) (LD)]

Will the Minister give way?

[Lee Rowley]

I will make progress.

The Labour party’s position is to immediately and artificially retard the amount of oil and gas that we produce domestically through penalty taxation, not necessarily because a windfall is needed, for aims that should or should not be laudable, but because reducing production is the ultimate objective. If the Labour party wants to reject the notion that getting to net zero requires a transition period, let it be clear about that. Let it highlight the fantastical world that Labour Members live in, shorn of the reality that we are on a journey over a generation.

Moreover, the Labour party should be clear that its objective over the long term—no doubt as it comes back for more and more money—is to reduce our energy security. Taxing out of existence the oil and gas industry, which we need to conclude the transition, will make us more dependent on other countries whose actions may have caused some of the things that the Labour motion seeks to deal with—greater foreign imports and fewer jobs in north-east Scotland and in supply chains all the way through constituencies such as mine, North East Derbyshire, or the shadow Secretary of State’s constituency of Doncaster North. The Labour party has no clear plan for energy to ensure in a measured and balanced way that we move from hydrocarbons to renewables and tread more lightly on the earth. That is what the Labour party is about these days: extinction, not transition.

We are used on Opposition day debates like this, on motions that do not add up, and this one has it in spades—incoherent, confused and unclear. Perhaps some of the hon. Members who are about to speak might be able to clear up the ultimate objective in the way that the right hon. Member for Doncaster North failed to do. For a party that talks so much about good government, Labour has demonstrated this afternoon that it is only interested in good headlines.