Pensions (Special Rules for End of Life) Bill

Laurence Robertson Excerpts

Report stage
Friday 17th May 2024 Commons Chamber

[Dr Coffey]

I am grateful to my hon. Friend the Member for Tewkesbury (Mr Robertson) and to the Government and the Department for Work and Pensions. I have tabled these amendments because, as has been seen with other Bills to which we have given Third Reading, they concern the timing of when an Act comes into effect. I am conscious that there are a number of situations where more work needs to be done to get some of the details and guidance, and other elements like that. Regrettably, for a variety of pieces of legislation, waiting for the Secretary of State to create regulations has somewhat delayed the introduction after Royal Assent of the effect of the Act that so many people have worked hard to achieve.

I am not in any way trying to detract from the regulator or from the Department for Work and Pensions, of which I was proud to be the Secretary of State, but I am particularly conscious about the uncertainty of the timing of a general election. Of course there are still procedures that can be done to some extent, but those who have held ministerial office will know some of the challenges that take place in terms of process, procedure, and different Cabinet committees. Put simply—this is why I am grateful to my hon. Friend and to the Government for listening to my concerns—the amendments would remove extra steps of process. That matters because I am keen to see the Bill enacted. I am not seeking in any way to hold it up. I want certainty about making it happen, and I was concerned about the uncertainty of timing. I was careful to check that the amendments would not affect the legislative consent motion that has already passed the Northern Ireland Assembly. If there is any way that they do, I have not been made aware of that—I have been given the opposite assurance.

I am keen to ensure that the United Kingdom moves together. We have two formally separate systems. These are transferred powers—they have always been powers for the Northern Ireland Executive and Assembly to deal with—but I know that the Executive and the Assembly have been keen, particularly in social security matters, for the United Kingdom to proceed in step so that we do not give different treatment to the same things, especially when we all pay the same tax and we all tend to have the same service providers.

After careful consideration, I wanted to ensure that the Bill becomes law in a timely fashion, without the need for further process, and that is why I will be pressing my amendments.

[Mr Laurence Robertson (Tewkesbury) (Con)]

I thank my right hon. Friend the Member for Suffolk Coastal (Dr Coffey) for tabling her amendments and for discussing them with me over the last few days. We have worked to try to ensure that the best outcome is found. She makes the point that when there is a general election coming, albeit that that is an unusual circumstance—one hopes that it will arise only every five years—it throws things into doubt. The last thing we would want is for the Bill to get Royal Assent and then, for some reason—probably the election—not come into force. I understand where she is coming from on that.

I also thank the Minister and the Government for discussing these issues and coming to an agreement to accept the amendments. I am certainly very happy to accept them. There is no need for me to drag proceedings out any further at this point. I thank all concerned for their work.

[Dame Angela Eagle (Wallasey) (Lab)]

I rise just to seek some reassurance on the amendments. I am not at all against them in principle—when I read them on the amendment paper, I could understand what the right hon. Member for Suffolk Coastal (Dr Coffey) was attempting to do and exactly why—but it strikes me that they rather run roughshod over established procedures, particularly with respect to the devolved Administrations, by giving quite a strict timetable. I wonder whether the Minister could reassure the House. Although it is not the case here, the changes made by Bills can often be quite complex and have to be made appropriately, and putting a very hard stop in a Bill, regardless of context, sets rather a difficult precedent.

Although I do not object to what the right hon. Member for Suffolk Coastal is trying to do, I was slightly surprised by the bulldozer approach that the amendments create. In this circumstance it is manageable, but it might not be quite so manageable in other, more complex circumstances. I suppose I seek some reassurance from the Minister about the precedent that the amendments will set. How wide will it go? Are we going to start including in Bills a precise timetable for when they will be put into effect, with a hard stop, regardless of their complexity?

I understand that the hon. Member for Tewkesbury (Mr Robertson) wants his Bill—we all want this to be done quickly—but there are some precedents being created here that would be slightly worrying if they were to extend more widely. I wonder whether the Minister might give us some thoughts and insights in that respect. I want to make it clear that the Opposition do not object to the Bill at all, but I am quite surprised by the innovative way in which the right hon. Member for Suffolk Coastal has sought to pursue her desire to get this thing done quickly.

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[Mr Robertson]

I beg to move, That the Bill be now read the Third time.

I am pleased that the Bill’s passage through the House has been relatively smooth, so I thank the Government and indeed the Opposition for their support. Although the Bill’s scope is narrow, it will provide financial assurance to those who have received the devastating diagnosis of a terminal illness and who have also seen the sponsors of their pension schemes become insolvent. The Bill will do that by amending the definition of the words “terminally ill”.

When someone receives the awful news that they may have only months to live, it is only right that financial problems should be the least of their worries. The loss of their rightful pension payments should not mean that they must live out their remaining time constrained by their financial circumstances. The Bill aims to address that problem directly.

For wider context, the Bill focuses on the Pension Protection Fund and the financial assistance scheme. The Pension Protection Fund, established by the Pensions Act 2004, pays compensation to individuals when the sponsors of their defined-benefit schemes—usually their employers—become insolvent and lack the necessary assets to pay those pensions to the level that the Pension Protection Fund ordinarily would. That is for cases when such insolvency takes place on or after 6 April 2005. The financial assistance scheme applies to individuals whose pension schemes were unable to meet their pensions liabilities in full when those schemes started to wind up between 1 January 1997 and 5 April 2005. The Bill concerns the compensation payments made to people diagnosed with a terminal illness from those schemes.

The Pension Protection Fund provides a one-off lump sum payment to those who receive such a diagnosis, while the financial assistance scheme will begin to make payments to someone at any age. The issue that the Bill seeks to address is the definition of a terminal illness.

The Pension Protection Fund and the financial assistance scheme both use the same legal definition of terminal illness, which that is that

“a person is ‘terminally ill’ at any time if at that time the person suffers from a progressive disease and the person’s death in consequence of that disease can reasonably be expected within 6 months.”

The same definition was used by the Department for Work and Pensions for the purpose of calculating benefits, but that was reformed in the Social Security (Special Rules for End of Life) Act 2022, where the six-month period included in the definition of “terminally ill” was extended to 12 months. The change in definition for these two pension schemes seems only logical. That would keep the definition consistent with making social security payments.

It is difficult to say how many people will benefit from the Bill, and in reality we do not really want people to benefit as that would mean that the sponsors of their pension funds have become insolvent, which we do not want to see. However, where that is the case, this legislation will benefit terminally ill people.

The Bill’s scope is technically limited to the Pension Protection Fund and the financial assistance scheme, but I hope it will encourage any workplace pension that does not have provision for terminal illness, where the member has a life expectancy of 12 months or less, to consider putting such a scheme into place. Depending on the scheme’s rules, many private pension schemes can already make what are called serious ill health payments under tax law, if the member has up to one year to live. The change will be well worth making.

The heartbreaking job of giving a terminal illness diagnosis falls to health professionals. Modern medicine, surgery, palliative care and the general care provided by our incredible NHS staff make that judgment even more difficult. It is therefore right to extend the definition of terminally ill from the narrow band of six months to the more accommodating threshold of 12 months. That is fairer not only to the ill person but to those who have to make the difficult judgment, especially when those health professionals know that a person’s pension payments may rest on that.

As we just heard, the Bill extends throughout the United Kingdom, and comes into force in England, Scotland and Wales four months after Royal Assent, and likewise in the case of Northern Ireland. I commend it to the House.

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[Mr Robertson]

I am pleased to draw this debate to a close by thanking the Minister and the Opposition for their support, and in particular with regard to setting the date for the commencement of legislation. In that context, I also thank my right hon. Friend the Member for Suffolk Coastal (Dr Coffey) for her amendments. I thank all hon. Members who have spoken in this debate and particularly those who served in the Committee stage. I also extend my thanks to those at the Department for Work and Pensions and the Bill management team, who have been so very helpful, and to the staff at Marie Curie, who were mentioned earlier and who campaigned so strongly on this issue. Hon. Members will know we cannot function in this place without the help of our staff, so I particularly thank my staff, Benjamin Jones and Harry Wallace, for the work they have put in. I hope by working together on this piece of legislation that we will have made a difference.

Question put and agreed to.

Bill accordingly read the Third time and passed.

Pensions (Special Rules for End of Life) Bill

Laurence Robertson Excerpts

Committee stage
Wednesday 24th April 2024 Public Bill Committees

[The Chair]

With this it will be convenient to consider clauses 2 and 3 stand part.

[Mr Laurence Robertson (Tewkesbury) (Con)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Dame Siobhain. I thank you, the Minister and all Committee members for attending. I also thank the Department for Work and Pensions legislative team, who have been a great asset and a source of useful assistance throughout the process. I thank the Opposition for their support and my hard-working staff for their efforts.

As I said on Second Reading, the Bill is small and narrow in focus, consisting of just the three clauses. It seeks to amend existing legislation that covers the definition of terminal illness for the Pension Protection Fund and the financial assistance scheme, which is currently a life expectancy of only six months. We seek to increase that definition to 12 months. The extension would allow people with a terminal illness to receive terminal illness payments when they are likely to have 12 months or less to live. Such payments are a one-off lump sum from the PPF scheme or an early payment from the FAS.

I am sure we would all agree that when someone receives the devastating news that they have a terminal illness, they should receive any and all financial help possible during their final days. The constant advances in medical science—treatments, drugs and palliative care—make this Bill that much more important, because things are rather difficult to predict. This extends to the pension schemes as well. Most private pension schemes already provide cover in the form of serious ill health payments.

As will be explained, the Government passed legislation two years ago to ensure the same outcome for individuals receiving certain social security benefits such as universal credit, employment and support allowance, and personal independence payments. I came to understand, however, that two aspects of pensions legislation lacked updated coverage. That legislation relates to the Pension Protection Fund and the financial assistance scheme—the focus of the Bill—which retained the six-months definition. The Bill seeks to rectify that.

In case any right hon. or hon. Members present in Committee were not at the Second Reading debate, I shall explain briefly what exactly the PPF and the FAS are. The Pension Protection Fund was established by the Pensions Act 2004. It pays compensation to individuals when the sponsors of their defined-benefit pension schemes—usually their employers—become insolvent and lack the necessary assets to pay pensions to the level that the Pensions Protection Fund would ordinarily pay. That applies for insolvencies that take place on or after 6 April 2005. The financial assistance scheme applies to individuals whose pension schemes were unable to meet their pensions liabilities in full when those schemes started to wind up between 1 January 1997 and 5 April 2005.

Currently, the PPF can make a one-off lump sum payment to someone who has not yet drawn their PPF compensation but is terminally ill. The FAS makes similar provision by allowing the early payment of financial assistance. Both the PPF legislation and the FAS regulations use the same definition of terminal illness. As I alluded to earlier, the Bill will bring the Pension Protection Fund and the financial assistance scheme in line with the Department for Work and Pensions’ definition of terminal illness, which, following the Social Security (Special Rules for End of Life) Act 2022, was likewise extended up to 12 months when calculating certain benefits. Therefore, the Bill seeks to harmonise the legislative definition of terminal illness such that following its commencement all legislation will use the extended 12-month definition.

I repeat that I hope that by harmonising the legislative definition we can encourage all pension providers that do not already have provision for considering serious ill-health payments when the member has a life expectancy of 12 months or less to consider putting that in place or updating or extending their scheme rules. Yes, the Bill has a narrow scope, but it might act as a prompt and as encouragement to other pension providers.

The Bill is legally tight, consisting of just three clauses. Clause 1 amends the current definition of “terminally ill”, normally referred to as “end of life”, from six months to 12 months in all relevant legislation; clause 2 covers the territorial extent and commencement of the Bill; and clause 3 establishes the short title of the Act: the Pensions (Special Rules for End of Life) Act 2024.

[Sir Greg Knight (East Yorkshire) (Con)]

Is my hon. Friend entirely happy with the wording of clause 2(4)? Has he had an undertaking from the Minister that the Government will bring the Bill into force as soon as possible? I ask because I was lucky enough to take the through Parliament Parking (Code of Practice) Act 2019, which had a similar clause. Some five years later, we are still waiting for the Government to introduce the parking code of practice, which is outrageous. If my hon. Friend has not had an undertaking from the Minister, does he think he should obtain one?

[Mr Robertson]

I am grateful to my right hon. Friend for reminding me that the Bill’s introduction depends on the Minister taking action. It was not this Minister who spoke on Second Reading but one of his colleagues, and we did receive an assurance that the legislation would be in place as soon as possible. As I understand it, we need to make sure that the situation in Northern Ireland is brought together with our legislation, because it is a devolved matter. I will come on to that in a minute. The Minister on Second Reading assured me that it would be brought in as soon as possible; I do not know exactly when that will be, but I am sure that the Minister will confirm it today. If he does not confirm it as strongly as we would like, maybe we can intervene on him, but I am satisfied that, given the Government’s support for the Bill, they will seek to introduce it as soon as all the ducks are in a row—that is how I can best describe it. But my right hon. Friend’s point is very important.

The Bill’s territorial extent is slightly complicated, given that aspects of the Pension Protection Fund are covered by devolved legislation in Northern Ireland, as seen in clause 1(3) and (4) and clause 2(2). However, officials are working with the devolved legislature on that matter, and as I understand it our colleagues in Northern Ireland are keen to see the alteration happen as soon as possible.

As explained, the Bill focuses on only the Pension Protection Fund and the financial assistance scheme. Thus, clause 1 and its subsequent subsections seek to amend relevant legislation and provisions connected to the Pension Protection Fund and the financial assistance scheme. Specifically, subsections (1) and (2) amend the definition of terminal illness by changing the period of life expectancy from the current six months to 12 months, in respect of Pension Protection Fund compensation.

[James Gray (North Wiltshire) (Con)]

I warmly congratulate my hon. Friend on this extremely worthwhile Bill. It really is a superb effort and I am grateful to him for it. I am puzzled, however; perhaps I should have asked this question on Second Reading. Who defines whether the person is terminally ill within 12 months? After all, many diagnoses of terminal illness may well last longer than 12 months, and some people may have no such diagnosis. Where does the six or 12 month-period come from? Who decides it, and what is the certification that that is the case?

[Mr Robertson]

I am grateful to my hon. Friend for raising that point. As I understand it, it is a classification or assessment made by the medical person in charge of a person’s very sad case. One of my motivations for introducing the Bill is that, given advances in medical science, it can be difficult to predict how long somebody is likely to live. Six months is a very short period of time and, through appropriate care, somebody can perhaps live longer than that. I seek to extend it to 12 months, which is somewhat more all-encompassing, but it is still a prediction. It is still drawing a line somewhere.

One of the points raised by my hon. Friend the Member for Shipley (Sir Philip Davies) on Second Reading was that perhaps we should assess the person’s capabilities and physical and mental state rather than try to predict how long they will live. That was a worthwhile intervention from him, but I do not think we are at that stage yet. What we are saying now is to extend the six-month period to 12 months, because that would make it a little more predictable—if that is the right word. It is a difficult area and my hon. Friend the Member for North Wiltshire has picked up on a good point.

Clause 1(1) amends schedule 7 to the Pensions Act 2004 and subsection (2) amends schedule 5 to the Pensions Act 2008, with both substituting six months for 12 months.

[Christine Jardine (Edinburgh West) (LD)]

I, too, offer the hon. Gentleman my congratulations. The Bill is extremely worth while. We have talked about the difficulties of diagnosis and the fact that 12 months is a more reasonable period, but does he anticipate that extending the period from six to 12 months will bring a lot more conditions and illnesses into the scope of the legislation?

[Mr Robertson]

I am grateful for that intervention; it is a good question. Not being a medical person, I assume it would bring some more illnesses within the definition, but it will not affect a huge number of people. As I say, the Bill is fairly narrow in scope. What I hope it will do is prompt the providers of other pension schemes to consider adopting the 12-month period rather than six months. Yes, I am sure it will bring in more people with various illnesses. Not being a medic, I would hesitate to go any further, but that is a good point.

Clause 1(3) and (4) make similar provisions to subsections (1) and (2) but for Northern Ireland, amending the definition of terminal illness in respect of Pension Protection Fund compensation payments. Subsection (3) amends schedule 6 to the Pensions (Northern Ireland) Order 2005 and subsection (4) amends schedule 4 to the Pensions (No. 2) Act (Northern Ireland) 2008. Again, both substitute six months for 12 months.

I have a few more provisions to read through yet; I apologise to the Committee. Subsection (5) amends the definition of terminal illness and the period of life expectancy in relation to progressive disease in regulations 2(9) and 17(3D) of the Financial Assistance Scheme Regulations 2005. Again, both substitute six months for 12 months.

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[Christina Rees (Neath) (Lab/Co-op)]

I congratulate the hon. Member on his commendable Bill and thank him for inviting me to be part of his Committee today. Please forgive me, for I should know this, but I cannot find it in the notes: which medical professional would be responsible for assessing the life expectancy term? Would that be confined to one or two medical professionals?

[Mr Robertson]

I am grateful to the hon. Lady for raising that point. My understanding is that it is one medical professional. I cannot give her a specific answer, but I understand that it is the person who is in charge of that case for that particular person. I do not know exactly how senior they are. I understand that it is not subject to second opinions or anything like that.

[Dr Thérèse Coffey (Suffolk Coastal) (Con)]

I thank my hon. Friend for allowing me to intervene at this point. I was responsible as Secretary of State for doing quite a lot of this realignment. In essence, the NHS treats and issues certificates on the basis—which brings in other elements—that the end of life is, in its view, 12 months, so it will be a doctor, nurse or similar who does that. This is a simple alignment with how the NHS defines terminal illness in practice.

[Mr Robertson]

I am grateful to my right hon. Friend for providing more information than I have to hand. As far as I can see, that is the right way to go about this. Twelve months probably gives a little more reassurance to the person making that assessment.

Transitional provisions are guidelines that outline how to transition from the old regulations to the new ones, and saving provisions are designed to protect certain rights, privileges, obligations or legal proceedings that are already in place before the new regulations or orders come into effect. That means that subsections (7) and (8) of clause 2 simply allow for the creation of regulations or orders that include special clauses to manage the change from old to new regulations, protecting against any unintended consequences that might arise during the transition.

To return to the Bill—we are getting there—subsection (9) of clause 2 provides that regulations under subsection (4), relating to the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions and with the territorial extent of England, Wales and Scotland, will be made by statutory instrument. That is a form of legislation, as everybody here is aware, that allows a provision of an Act of Parliament to be subsequently brought into force or altered without Parliament having to pass a new Act. Subsection (10) provides that an order made under subsection (5) of clause 2, relating to the Department for Communities in Northern Ireland and with the territorial extent of Northern Ireland, is exercisable by statutory rule—again, a form of legislation that allows for detailed regulations to be created without the need for a new Act of Parliament.

Finally, as I mentioned, clause 3 is simply the short title of the Act, which, if the Bill is passed, will be the Pensions (Special Rules for End of Life) Act 2024. I do hope that it will be passed in this Parliament and that the extended definition of terminal illness—life expectancy of 12 months—will come into force, providing a little bit of ease to individuals who have received the most devastating news. I thank the Committee for its indulgence.

[Dr Coffey]

It is a pleasure to speak in Committee about the Bill, which I strongly support. As I have already pointed out, some of the realignment involved is intended to ensure some simplicity for people at one of the most difficult times of their lives, so that they do not have to go around getting different aspects of treatment or negotiating. We made that good change a few years ago. There have been various bits of legislation along the way—some welfare and pensions legislation is done through regulations and some through primary legislation, so it can seem cumbersome. But this is the right moment to make sure that this part of the support available to people in their difficult last moments is fully aligned.

I would like to say something to the Minister. I am conscious that getting even regulations through Parliament takes time and more effort from officials. I would like him either to confirm that the regulations have already been drafted in anticipation of Royal Assent, so that they can be laid before Parliament straight away, or to say that he will consider simply changing the element in question. I have been encouraging others leading private Members’ Bills through Parliament to change the commencement dates so that they come into force three months after Royal Assent.

I am conscious that the Pensions Regulator and similar organisations might have to address some issues, but they should know that the Bill has the full support of this House—of both Houses, I anticipate. We should not wait for further legislation to be commenced, given that people at the end of their lives would welcome this matter being put to bed straight away.

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[Paul Maynard]

I am grateful for that intervention, because I should have thought to start my speech by paying tribute to Frank Field and the immense amount of work he did in the Department for Work and Pensions. He was a thoughtful and humane man, respected on both sides of the House, and I am more than happy to join in paying tribute to him.

Being told that one is nearing the ends of one’s life can be a devastating and frightening experience. It is crucial that those reaching the final stages of their life do not have to worry as much about their finances and can focus on spending their time with the people who matter to them. The Bill takes us one step further toward ensuring that that can happen, building on the changes made back in 2022. I am grateful to my hon. Friend the Member for Tewkesbury for promoting the Bill, and I commend it to the Committee.

[Mr Robertson]

I thank the Minister for that positive response. We look forward to the measure being introduced as soon as practicable. I also thank all members of the Committee for their attendance and contributions today, as well as the team who helped to put the Bill together.

It was rather remiss of me to forget to pay tribute to Frank Field, and I am grateful to my hon. Friend the Member for North Wiltshire for reminding us. A long time ago, before I was elected to this House, I had the pleasure of working with Frank on a charity project I was involved with, just across the river at Lambeth Palace. We were raising money to create a hostel for homeless women in London at Marylebone complex, just off the Marylebone Road, and Frank was very active member of the fundraising committee. There was no benefit to him; he did it because he felt it was the right thing to do. I pay sincere tribute to Frank.

That seems a good point to finish my speech by restating my thanks to everyone who helped with the Bill.

[The Chair]

I am sure we are all united in sending our condolences to the family and friends of Frank Field, a man who showed us all how to be a Member of Parliament.

Oral Answers to Questions

Laurence Robertson Excerpts

Monday 18th March 2024 Commons Chamber

[The Minister for Employment (Jo Churchill)]

The plan is to roll out those migration notices by 31 March. We intend to publish data for the hon. Gentleman’s constituency. We are committed to ensuring that the transition works as smoothly as possible for everyone.

[Mr Laurence Robertson (Tewkesbury) (Con)]

T4. Has the Minister made any recent assessment of what trades or occupations are short of workers at the moment, and what steps are being taken to persuade people—perhaps more experienced people—back into the workforce to fill those vacancies?

[Jo Churchill]

We are working with other Departments, employers and stakeholders to isolate where those vacancies are, and on sector-based work academy programmes. We have put over 266,000 people through construction, care, tourism, hospitality—all those gaps that we need to fill.

Pensions (Special Rules for End of Life) Bill

Laurence Robertson Excerpts

2nd reading
Friday 2nd February 2024 Commons Chamber

[Mr Laurence Robertson (Tewkesbury) (Con)]

I beg to move, That the Bill be now read a Second time.

This very small Bill is narrow in scope, but it will provide financial assistance and fairness to people who are terminally ill who have seen the sponsors of their pension schemes become insolvent. It will do that by changing the definition of “terminally ill” for this purpose. I thank the legislative team of the Department for Work and Pensions and my staff for their help preparing the Bill.

I think everyone in the House would agree that those who receive the devastating news that they have a terminal illness should receive as much financial help as possible in their final days. The loss of their right to pension payments is a blow that they should not have to suffer, and that is what the Bill seeks to address.

By way of background, the Bill focuses on the Pension Protection Fund and the financial assistance scheme. The Pension Protection Fund was established by the Pensions Act 2004 and pays compensation to individuals when the sponsors of defined benefit pension schemes—usually their employers—become insolvent and lack the necessary assets to pay those pensions to the level that the Pension Protection Fund would ordinarily pay. That applies to insolvency that has taken place on or after 6 April 2005. The financial assistance scheme applies to individuals whose pension schemes were unable to meet their pension liabilities in full if those schemes started to wind up between 1 January 1997 and 5 April 2005.

The Bill relates to compensation payments from those schemes made to people with terminal illness. When meeting the liabilities of pension schemes, the Pension Protection Fund can pay a one-off lump sum to someone who is terminally ill. The financial assistance scheme can start to make pension payments, but not pay a lump sum, to someone at any age with a terminal illness. The issue is the definition of a terminal illness. The Pension Protection Fund and the financial assistance scheme use the same legal definition of terminal illness, which is that a person is terminally ill

“at any time if at that time the person suffers from a progressive disease and the person’s death in consequence of that disease can reasonably be expected within 6 months.”

[Richard Fuller (North East Bedfordshire) (Con)]

I commend my hon. Friend on bringing forward this Bill, and I hope that he will not mind that at times I will ask some questions about it; I may also make some comments later. He was talking about the assessment of what is a terminal illness. Can he spend a bit more time on who is making that decision, and what the range of illnesses is? Are the illnesses set down by the NHS? Is there a limited list of those illnesses? Who assesses whether a person is within the bounds of what would be called a terminal illness for the purposes of this Bill?

[Mr Robertson]

I thank my hon. Friend for his intervention. As I understand it, the assessment is made by a health professional. What illnesses he or she is entitled to take into account goes beyond the scope of this Bill, and I do not think that I can list those illnesses. The Bill is about the length of time someone is expected to live. If he will allow me, I will leave my explanation there.

[Sir Greg Knight (East Yorkshire) (Con)]

On that point, is there provision for a second opinion to be obtained in cases where there is doubt? If my hon. Friend cannot answer that today, will he write to me?

[Mr Robertson]

I thank my right hon. Friend for that intervention. I am not aware of the process that someone would have to go through when being assessed. The assessment of the time that someone has to live, which is a technical legal point, is particularly concerning, but I am certainly happy to look into that.

The definition of “terminal illness” is a disease that can reasonably be expected to bring an end to somebody’s life within six months. The Department for Work and Pensions used that definition for calculating benefits, but in the Social Security (Special Rules for End of Life) Act 2022, that six months was extended to 12 months. It therefore seems logical to change the definition of “terminally ill” applied by the Pension Protection Fund and the financial assistance scheme, so that it is consistent with the definition that is applied when considering social security payments. The Bill seeks to make that extension from six to 12 months.

It is hard to know how many people would benefit from this legislation. I suppose, paradoxically, we do not want people to benefit from it, because that would mean that the sponsors of their pension fund had become insolvent, which we do not want to happen. However, the Bill will help terminally ill people where that is the case.

While the Bill’s scope is technically limited to the Pension Protection Fund and the financial assistance scheme, I hope that my bringing it forward will encourage any workplace pension scheme that does not have provision for members with a terminal illness who have a life expectancy of 12 months or less to consider putting that in place. Many private pension schemes can already make what are called serious ill health payments under tax law to a member who has up to a year to live. That would be a change well worth making.

[Richard Fuller]

My hon. Friend has made another interesting point. He says that the Pension Protection Fund is there for when a pension fund fails, and that the Bill may be an incentive for viable pension funds that do not already use a 12-month period to do so, and to mirror what the Pension Protection Fund does. Will he, or perhaps the Minister, tell me whether there is an understanding of how many pension funds have a 12-month provision? Will the Bill increase that in viable pension funds?

[Mr Robertson]

I grateful to my hon. Friend for making a good point. I do not have those figures, and I do not necessarily expect the Minister to have them to hand, but we should look into that, and try to take that point forward.

[Rob Butler (Aylesbury) (Con)]

My hon. Friend is making a powerful speech that I am sure most of us will have no difficulty agreeing with. In the lead-up to the Bill’s introduction, has he spoken to charities and other organisations about what impact extending the period from six to 12 months will have on people’s real lives, and on their families and friends?

[Mr Robertson]

I thank my hon. Friend for that. Yes, I spoke in particular to the Marie Curie charity, which told me of some very sad cases. It is important to stress that the Bill refers to occasions when the pension fund or its sponsoring company becomes insolvent, so the Bill is narrow in scope. However, he makes a good point. The charity gave me a number of examples, and there are many others. That brings us back to my point that we should look to extend the 12-month provision beyond the Bill to other pension schemes. The last thing that someone given a terminal illness diagnosis needs is more financial problems. If there is anything we can do about that, I am happy to take it forward with the Minister and the Government. I thank my hon. Friends for their interventions.

Determining the length of time that someone has to live falls to health professionals, and it is a heartbreaking and difficult judgment to make. Modern medicine, surgery and palliative care—such as that provided by the excellent Sue Ryder hospice in my constituency—and the general care provided by our NHS staff make that judgment even more difficult. I therefore feel that it is right to extend the definition of “terminally ill” from the very narrow band of six months to the more accommodating threshold of 12 months. That is fairer not only to the people who are ill, but to those who have to make that very difficult judgment—a judgment that it is especially difficult for health professionals to make when they know that a person’s pension payments may rest on it.

The Bill extends throughout the United Kingdom, and would come into force in England, Scotland and Wales

“on such day or days as the Secretary of State may by regulations appoint”,

and in Northern Ireland when the Department for Communities appoints by order. I am about to wind up, but I think my right hon. Friend the Member for East Yorkshire (Sir Greg Knight) wishes to intervene again.

[Sir Greg Knight]

My hon. Friend is generous. I think he is referring to clause 2(4). Is he entirely happy about the wording of that subsection? The Bill could be passed with unanimous support from all parts of the House, but under that subsection, a Minister could later decide not to implement the measure. We would be unable to do anything about that.

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[Mr Robertson]

I am grateful to my right hon. Friend for mentioning that point. The Government have been very co-operative while I have been preparing the Bill, so I remain confident that they will not hesitate to name the day. Technically, the Bill will not come into force until the Government decide that it will, but I am confident that that will happen. I thank my hon. Friends for their interventions, and for all the reasons I have stated, I commend the Bill to the House.

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[Mr Robertson]

I thank the Minister for that response and the shadow Minister for her contribution. I also thank my right hon. and hon. Friends for their speeches and interventions. They all raised good points, but I think the most important one, made by my hon. Friend the Member for Shipley (Philip Davies), was that the Bill takes us in the right direction but should not be the last word on this issue. We must look at assessing people in terms of illness, because it is not just about time; it is about the diagnosis and the seriousness of those illnesses. I am pleased that the Minister picked that up. We must look to extrapolate this principle into other pension payments and schemes, as I mentioned in my speech.

Finally, I am pleased that the Minister confirmed that the Government intend to ensure that the Bill starts to have an impact as quickly as possible after Royal Assent. I look forward to working with her and the Government on that basis.

Question put and agreed to.

Bill accordingly read a Second time; to stand committed to a Public Bill Committee (Standing Order No. 63).

Social Mobility

Laurence Robertson Excerpts

Tuesday 21st March 2023 Westminster Hall

[Mr Laurence Robertson (in the Chair)]

As the mover of the motion and the Minister are present, we can start slightly earlier. We can run on until the end of the debate’s allotted time. I call Sir David Evennett.

[Sir David Evennett (Bexleyheath and Crayford) (Con)]

I beg to move,

That this House has considered social mobility.

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Robertson, and to be able to raise the important issue of social mobility. I am absolutely delighted to see that the Under-Secretary of State for Work and Pensions, my hon. Friend the Member for Mid Sussex (Mims Davies), will respond to the debate.

This matter has interested and concerned me for many years. Having been so fortunate as to be a product of social mobility, as are my family, I am keen to see it advanced. My family originated in the east end of London, in Bow and Poplar. Through education, hard work, opportunity, determination and good fortune, my grandfather, Thomas Evennett, and my father, Norman Evennett, were able to progress during their lives. I too have had many opportunities to work in careers that I have loved so much, including as Member of Parliament for Bexleyheath and Crayford, and before that, for Erith and Crayford.

Social mobility is about every single person having the opportunity to succeed. It is the link between our starting point in life and where we end up. If where we begin strongly determines where we end up, mobility is low, but if everyone has a good chance of achieving any outcome, regardless of their background, mobility is high, and that is what all of us here want. The Conservative Government are determined to ensure that work is a route out of poverty and into a future where individuals can achieve their ambitions, irrespective of their situation or origin.

Social mobility is one of the key reasons why Britain has been so successful in channelling the talents of all sections of our country, to their own benefit and that of the whole nation. Social mobility is good not just from a moral perspective; it has a huge impact economically. By ensuring talent is harvested from across the whole social spectrum, we can boost productivity and our GDP.

The Social Mobility Commission notes:

“the popular narrative of worsening mobility prospects for young people in the UK is not supported when we take a careful look at a range of outcomes across education and employment.”

That is positive news, because although talent in Britain is spread evenly across the country, regrettably, opportunity is not always. Every individual should have a fair chance of reaching their full potential, so we must ensure that everyone has the opportunity to build a good life for themselves, irrespective of their background.

In the latest “State of the Nation” report from June 2022, almost every gap in the intermediate outcomes between young people from higher and lower socioeconomic backgrounds has narrowed in the past decade. However, there are still disparities, but there has been progress across all measures. Intermediate outcomes in education and work have been trending in a positive direction. Educational attainment gaps between people from higher and lower socioeconomic backgrounds have narrowed, especially at key stages 2 and 4.

The gaps between those from professional and working-class backgrounds for both university participation and degree attainment have also narrowed, although I only have figures from the Sutton Trust, which are rather out of date now. However, there is still a long way to go. On early careers, the gap between people from professional and working-class backgrounds has decreased for most of the occupational and economic outcomes since 2014. However, it is noted that the full effects of the covid-19 pandemic are still unlikely to be shown in any data.

Although positive progress has been made, research undertaken by Professor Steve Strand from the University of Oxford found that there are still vast inequalities in educational achievement at the age of 16. I am particularly concerned about the fact that British white and British black Caribbean male attainment falls well below the average for all students of that age, and scores the lowest across all socioeconomic groups, particularly for the working class.

The variations in attainment are particularly pronounced in the lowest socioeconomic groups, with black Caribbean males achieving an average score of -0.77, and British white males achieving a score of -0.68, compared with Bangladeshi boys achieving a score of 0.07 and those in other Asian male groups scoring -0.11. There are also significant disparities between the attainment of boys and girls in these groups. White British girls and girls of black Caribbean origin score significantly higher across the socioeconomic levels than their male counterparts. Girls from black Caribbean origins from an average socio-economic group scored 0.01, whereas boys scored -0.41. British white girls from the same socioeconomic group scored 0.09, while British white boys scored -0.22.

This data is concerning as educational achievement has such a significant impact on socioeconomic attainment in later life. Our priority must be to create an even playing field, so that everyone has the opportunity to excel and achieve, wherever their ambitions take them. Even before the pandemic started in 2020, there were already many challenges facing our country, but the past three years have added many global challenges outside of the Government’s control—not just the devastating pandemic, but the ongoing war in Europe and the rise in the cost of living. These have all had an impact on social mobility. That is why it is more important than ever that the Government’s levelling-up agenda should remain at the heart of all that we do. The Government have an important role to play—they can lead—but others need to take up the issue and give it support, be they businesses, professions, families or communities.

The covid-19 pandemic was hopefully a once-in-a-generation crisis. It will have an impact on the world’s social mobility for years to come. It was entirely out of the Government’s control. It is important to remember that the historic vaccination programme enabled us to be one of the first western democracies to restore people’s freedoms and open our economy. The Government also delivered more than £400 billion-worth of unprecedented support during the pandemic. It was one of the most generous economic support packages anywhere in the world. It supported more than 14.5 million jobs and provided almost £80 billion in business grants and loans. However, the covid-19 pandemic has impacted particularly harshly on young people from poorer backgrounds. It is likely to have long-term consequences, in education and work, for that cohort. In the short term, we can expect there to be an adverse effect on social mobility, particularly for young people entering the labour market.

It is more important than ever that we provide support that can lift everyone, irrespective of who they are, where they live and where they come from. We cannot accept a country where people have different ladders to climb. People must be encouraged to engage with education and understand its long-term benefits. The recovery programmes that have been introduced, such as the recovery premium and the national tutoring programme, are vital in helping the most disadvantaged. I also welcome the Lifelong Learning (Higher Education Fee Limits) Bill, which is proceeding through Parliament. It will enable people to get education and training throughout their life, so that they can skill and upskill, from school age up to the age of 60. That is a really positive movement.

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[Several hon. Members rose—]

[Mr Laurence Robertson (in the Chair)]

Order. A number of Members are trying to get in. If they can limit themselves to roughly five minutes or so each, we should be able to manage that.

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[David Johnston]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right. We have to talk more about this because too often in politics people on the left fear they will demonise parents and on the right they fear they will appear to be the nanny state if they talk about it, but politicians and commentators who say those things are doing exactly the right things for their children. He is absolutely right about the Family Nurse Partnership and a whole range of other things, including family hubs.

The schools system is the easiest lever for politicians to pull, and we have seen huge increases in attainment through academies, free schools and various other initiatives. We have seen London state schools go from being the worst to the best, but we still have parts of the country where the standard of education is not good enough. We have a gender gap in education where girls do better than boys, and an ethnicity gap where certain ethnic groups do better than others, but the biggest gap in education is between children who have free school meals and those who do not. Although we have been making progress—albeit slow—covid has made that situation a lot worse, and has destroyed a lot of the progress we have made. As my right hon. Friend the Member for Bexleyheath and Crayford says, the national tutoring programme is important, but we have to do more to focus on that.

Let me quickly canter through some other areas. This is about further education colleges and ensuring that the courses they provide will help people in the employment market, which is what we were trying to get to with the Skills and Post-16 Education Act 2022. When it comes to universities, the success they often trumpet about the percentage of state school students they have masks the fact that a huge proportion of them went to selective state schools—grammar schools—and that the proportion of comprehensive school entry pupils is still low. There is more for them to do, particularly at the most elite universities.

Finally, on professions, Members will have heard me say previously that someone is 24 times more likely to become a doctor if their parent is a doctor; only 6% of doctors are from a working-class background. Again, that is not in the Government’s control. Employers have to do something about that. Some people will say that social mobility is not about people leaving their home area, going to a Russell Group university and getting a middle-class job, but show me someone who says that, and nine times out of 10 they will have done exactly that in their own life. That does not invalidate the point—we need to have both, and to move jobs and investment to those areas—but do not tell me that we should not be trying to get more people into those universities and professions, because they are controlling the country. If we are to get to a position where talent and opportunity is everywhere, everybody has to play their part.

[Mr Laurence Robertson (in the Chair)]

I have to ask Members to please stick to four minutes now.

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[Marion Fellows (Motherwell and Wishaw) (SNP)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Robertson. I congratulate the right hon. Member for Bexleyheath and Crayford (Sir David Evennett), but I also want to chastise him because he has taken some of my best lines.

I, too, am a product of social mobility. My father was a co-operative milkman and my mother was a cleaner. They both left school at 14, but they were determined to give me the chances that they never had. I was the first in my entire family to go to university in the days when many folk considered educating girls to be just a waste of time—she would only get married and have weans. I did both, and now I am here.

I also taught in further education. I know that times have changed, but social mobility is a real issue. Those in poverty cannot be socially mobile. Those who are hungry cannot learn. When fees are a barrier, many cannot access higher education. That is why children in Scotland are lucky. The Scottish Government take their duties to the next generation seriously, and they have introduced many measures to tackle child poverty. The latest iteration is “Best Start, Bright Futures”, which looks at long-term parental employment support, increased social security and measures to reduce household costs. The recent Institute for Fiscal Studies analysis of Scottish tax and benefit reform found that the lowest-income families in Scotland are significantly better off as a result of the Scottish Government’s tax regime.

Among the poorest 30% of households, those with children will see their incomes boosted by a sizeable £2,000 a year on average, driven by higher benefits for families with children. Perhaps the Minister would consider that in relation to the UK. The Scottish child payment has recently been increased immensely. It is now up to £25 a week—the Scottish Government are providing an extra £2.6 million this year—and it is being extended to children up to the age of 16.

Other small independent countries do much better on social mobility. I am thinking of Nordic countries, such as Denmark. According to OECD figures, it takes two generations to increase social mobility in Denmark, but it takes five generations in the United Kingdom. We must look at that.

I do not want to, and cannot, mention everyone, but the hon. Member for Hemsworth (Jon Trickett) caught my attention when he talked about Conservative Members saying that the only way out of poverty is work. That is not the case for those on a zero-hours contract and minimum wage. The living wage, as it is described by the Tory Government, is not enough to live on. That is why many working parents are still getting universal credit. There is something wrong with a system where both parents are working and children, who are our future, will never be able to be socially mobile. They will not know how, because they are being held back by poverty. Will the Minister also look at introducing a minimum support payment for the Child Maintenance Service if parents refuse to pay? I have already spoken to her about this.

Social mobility is important. Social mobility actually works. Social mobility means that we will prosper, right across the UK. Countries, such as Norway, which give their citizens high social benefits, are not poor countries. They make people’s lives better and therefore increase social mobility. I will sit down now, because I am really interested in what the Minister and the Opposition have to say.

[Mr Laurence Robertson (in the Chair)]

I call Alison McGovern, who also has five minutes.

Oral Answers to Questions

Laurence Robertson Excerpts

Monday 6th March 2023 Commons Chamber

[Guy Opperman]

Local DWP jobcentres work hand in glove with local employers. It is very different in Banff and in Brixton—it is very different up and down the country. That is what we do with sector-based work academies, skills bootcamps and innovation pilots on a local basis in each individual jobcentre.

[Mr Laurence Robertson (Tewkesbury) (Con)]

T8. I co-chair the all-party parliamentary engineering group. One of our objectives is to get young people to consider taking up employment in engineering. A number of companies in my area, for example, are short of young people. What more can the Government do to make young people aware of the excellent opportunities that exist in engineering?

[Mims Davies]

We are focused, across Government, on helping young people to become involved in science, technology, engineering and maths projects and careers. A new science and technology framework was announced today, and will be vital for long-term economic success. DWP Train and Progress helps claimants take advantage of the bootcamps run by the Department for Education, and our partnership with Google is helping to boost digital skills. These activities are flexible in that people of any age and at any stage in their careers can engage in them.

Oral Answers to Questions

Laurence Robertson Excerpts

Monday 31st October 2022 Commons Chamber

[Jane Hunt (Loughborough) (Con)]

17. What steps his Department is taking to support more people into work.

[Mr Laurence Robertson (Tewkesbury) (Con)]

25. What steps he is taking to help more people enter the workforce.

[The Minister of State, Department for Work and Pensions (Guy Opperman)]

Unemployment is at 3.5%. That is the lowest in nearly 50 years. We have recruited an extra 13,000-plus job coaches and are taking specific action to ensure that we are rolling out our new in-work progression offer.

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[Guy Opperman]

I thank the staff at Loughborough jobcentre. My hon. Friend is absolutely right: they are doing an outstanding job and I know they usually hold a very successful jobs fair. On the self-employed nationwide, universal credit gives them a 12-month start-up period to grow their earnings to a sustainable level. We believe that is the way forward.

[Mr Robertson]

To try to help fill the very many vacancies that exist in a number of industries, will the Minister have discussions with fellow Ministers in the Treasury to see if more changes to the tax system can be brought in to really make sure that work does pay?

[Guy Opperman]

I completely agree with my hon. Friend, who makes a very good point. It is absolutely the case that we are working on that. I highlight in particular the taper rate, which was reduced from 63% to 55%, but also the additional work we are putting into job coaches, the sector-based work academy and the increased work allowance, which makes sure that individuals get an extra £1,000.

Oral Answers to Questions

Laurence Robertson Excerpts

Monday 21st March 2022 Commons Chamber

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Work and Pensions (Guy Opperman)]

The factual matter is that the state pension has increased by in excess of 5% over the past two years. There is also £5 billion-worth of pension credit—I encourage the hon. Gentleman to get his vulnerable constituents to apply for that—and the Chancellor’s £9.1 billion package for energy bills. I also encourage the hon. Gentleman to get his constituents to apply to the local authority fund.

[Mr Laurence Robertson (Tewkesbury) (Con)]

T8. Ministers will be aware that a number of organisations, such as those in in care services, agriculture and related industries, and hospitality, are experiencing difficulties in finding enough workers. What can Ministers do to bring those who are looking for work together with those kinds of industries?

[Mims Davies]

I thank my hon. Friend for raising this issue. There are currently over 1.2 million vacancies. On jobs and vacancies, Opposition Members do not appear to understand that people are better off in work than they are on benefits. Let us get to the point: there are key sectors in this country that need people. To tackle this challenge, we at the Department for Work and Pensions are stepping up, with Way to Work bringing people into our jobcentres and helping claimants to change their lives.

Oral Answers to Questions

Laurence Robertson Excerpts

Monday 18th March 2019 Commons Chamber

[Mr Laurence Robertson (Tewkesbury) (Con)]

11. What steps she is taking to increase the income of older pensioners; and if she will make a statement.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Work and Pensions (Guy Opperman)]

This country spends £121 billion on pensioners every year, with an increasing budget. My hon. Friend will be aware that the state pension is up well over £1,000 per annum in cash terms since 2010. In addition, there are 12 million winter fuel payments, at a cost of about £2 billion, specifically for the over-80s, with a payment of £300 a year to the individual.

[Mr Robertson]

I thank the Minister for delivering that good news to the House. While automatic pension enrolment will certainly help people as they move into retirement, can we make sure that we do not take our eye off the ball with older pensioners, with particular reference to fuel poverty, because there is still a problem?

[Guy Opperman]

My hon. Friend makes two points. The first is that auto-enrolment is a massive success in Tewkesbury, with 23,000 men and women now saving up to 5%—going up to 8% in April—for their long-term retirement. In addition, on fuel poverty, he will be pleased with the warm home discount scheme, which supports over 2 million low-income and vulnerable customers each year with direct assistance with their costs. However, I accept that there is always more that we can do.

Oral Answers to Questions

Laurence Robertson Excerpts

Monday 26th March 2018 Commons Chamber

[Kit Malthouse]

We have been communicating the changeover with approaching 500,000 pieces of paper since last July, and well over 350,000 telephone calls have been made to the something like 90,000 people in receipt of this benefit. There are specific provisions, post the changeover, to deal with people who perhaps attempt to manage on their own and feel that they cannot do so in that, post the deadline, they can reapply for support and backdate it to 6 April if they so wish.

[Mr Laurence Robertson (Tewkesbury) (Con)]

T8. The Government have done a lot to help pensioners, but far too many still suffer from poverty, particularly older pensioners. What more will the Government do to help that particular group?

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Work and Pensions (Guy Opperman)]

My hon. Friend is right: we now pay £1,000 more in the basic state pension than in 2010. For those in employment, 23,000 people in his constituency have a private pension due to auto-enrolment. Pensioner poverty of itself has fallen dramatically, but I am happy to take this up and to discuss it with him in more detail.