Groceries Supply Code of Practice

Kirsty Blackman Excerpts

Monday 22nd January 2024 Westminster Hall

[Kirsty Blackman (Aberdeen North) (SNP)]

Thank you for masterfully chairing this debate, Mrs Murray. I congratulate the hon. Member for Neath (Christina Rees) and thank her for taking this issue forward today. I also congratulate the petitioners, the Petitions Committee, and all those who signed the petition and allowed us the opportunity for this debate, which is incredibly important.

Hon. Members will realise that I am not my hon. Friend the Member for Coatbridge, Chryston and Bellshill (Steven Bonnar), who unfortunately has been caught up in the travel chaos as a result of the storms. I am super-subbing it today, so I hope that everybody will forgive me if I do not know the answers to any questions that may get thrown at me.

I declare an interest: my mum’s sister owns a small farm, and my mum’s sister and brother both own sheep and a handful of cows. The number of sheep varies throughout the year, but it is less than 500 at any time. The hon. Member for Rutland and Melton (Alicia Kearns) talked about somebody who was a fifth-generation farmer. I asked my mum about farming in our family, and she said that she does not know of any of her direct ancestors who were not farmers. My dad’s family do not know of any of their direct ancestors who were not fishermen, so we have food production running through our veins. However, I am firmly a toonser rather than a teuchter, and I visit the farm about once a year just to see the lambs. That is about as good as it gets when it comes to my farming, I am afraid.

However, farming is vital to Scotland. Some 67,000 people throughout Scotland are directly employed in agriculture, and throughout the UK about 400,000 people are employed in food manufacturing, as well as 500,000 people in farming and fishing. We are absolutely clear that farmers must be paid what they are owed because they provide a secure, fair and sustainable future for British family farms on these islands. I am sad that I missed the scarecrows today, but I thank you for all the work you have done in bringing this to the attention of people. I hope that it gets the attention it deserves from not just around the House—

[Mrs Sheryll Murray (in the Chair)]

Order. The hon. Lady is speaking through me—just a gentle reminder.

[Kirsty Blackman]

My apologies. I hope that it gets the attention it deserves from not just around the House—it is clear that all sides agree that there is a problem and it needs to be solved—but the wider public; although some of them have taken the opportunity to sign the petition, others may not have heard of it. Hopefully, this debate will bring a bit more attention to it and ensure that more people are aware of the problems facing farmers right now.

I have some points from the Scottish Government and from a Scottish perspective. We are looking for clarity and certainty on the future of rural funding. We are committed to maintaining direct payments, but it would be incredibly useful to know exactly what will happen in the future. We are also still looking for more information on the EU labelling rules—the labels that say, “Not for EU”. The Scottish Parliament has the right to make decisions on labelling because it is a devolved matter. However, the UK Government are making decisions and saying that they apply across the whole UK. We do not want that burden to be put on our farmers when we are not choosing for that to happen. Anything the Minister can do to ensure that there are communications with the Scottish Government so that they are kept as up to date as possible on the labelling issue would be useful.

On spending and how farmers are managing at the moment, there continues to be an issue around immigration, in relation to both seasonal workers and food manufacturing —in particular when it comes to abattoirs—despite the fact that the Government have introduced temporary, short-term visas to allow people to take on those roles.

There is a significant issue with vets. Food manufacturing ends up costing significantly more because if it is much more difficult to get vets, it is even more difficult for farmers to get what they need in terms of producing costs. Lastly, the issue around seed potatoes continues to be significant and, as far as I know, does not look like it is going to be solved. It would be helpful if we were able to export seed potatoes again. The Scottish Government have created an £180,000 pilot fund for abattoirs and small food producers. If the UK Government were willing to look at the results of our pilot, once we have them, they may be keen to take on that way of funding small producers and abattoirs to ensure that they continue to keep their heads above water into the future.

We cannot lose our farming industry. We also cannot allow consumers to be ripped off when they are buying food at the supermarket. I have very little sympathy for supermarkets that are making billions when my constituents cannot afford food and farmers are being paid pennies—if that—in every pound for the food they produce.

The UK Government’s food security targets are all well and good, but there needs to be more intervention to ensure that they are met: things like the trade deals, for example. During my time on the EFRA Committee, it seemed to me that nobody had thought about how those might impact farmers in these islands. It seemed that it was just, “We have decided that this is a good thing and therefore we are doing it”, and that farmers’ voices were not heard during those negotiations. I know that lots of things need to be taken into account when trade deals are signed—I absolutely get that. But the fact that farmers seemed to be so sidelined and not listened to in the process really concerned me.

[Anthony Mangnall]

I thank the hon. Lady for making that important point. She is absolutely right that farmers should not be forgotten in our trade deals. As a member of the Business and Trade Committee, I ask her whether she will therefore welcome the fact that the Trade and Agriculture Commission is on a statutory footing. Will she also recognise that under the Constitutional Reform and Governance Act 2010, we will have a debate on the comprehensive and progressive agreement for trans-Pacific partnership, which will give every Member the chance to debate this issue, talk about farming, and review the advice from the Trade and Agriculture Commission, which will be reviewing all future trade deals?

[Kirsty Blackman]

I appreciate that the Trade and Agriculture Commission exists, and I appreciate the CRAG processes, but I do not think that is enough. There should be more say for Parliament. I understand the UK Government’s arguments for why the commission does not have that, but leaving some of the most detailed scrutiny to Select Committees is not ideal. Select Committees do a great job, but every Member should have the opportunity to make decisions on this issue—not just to have a say on the CRAG processes.

[Anthony Mangnall]

I thank the hon. Lady for being so generous in taking interventions. I agree with her; indeed, this is becoming a point of violent agreement. Parliament is getting more of a say, because of the work of the Select Committee—not just my work, but that of many others on that Committee, who have pushed to strengthen CRAG, to ensure that we will have a voice in that process. We have also strengthened the ways in which Members are updated on the progress of trade deals. I gently make the point, because it is important, that over the last four years there have been fantastic cross-party improvements to our trade deals, although that is not to say that there is not further to go.

[Kirsty Blackman]

I am astonished to find myself agreeing with the hon. Gentleman, but there has indeed been progress. However, there is still further to go. More could be done to allow Members to have a say.

Mrs Murray, in this room you have heard today the voices of people who listen to their constituents and are heavily involved in their constituency. I would like those voices—indeed, voices from all parts of these islands—to have a say, but I still think that we are not quite there yet.

Farmers and crofters absolutely deserve a fair return for the costs and risks involved in their work. They produce the highest quality food and drink. Also, the environmental benefits of their work are significant. The landscape management and climate change mitigation work that farmers do has been mentioned, as well as the economic benefits of farming. All those things are important. Contracts should reflect the real costs of farming and should allow for regular review as well, especially in the event of unexpected shocks.

Although farming is absolutely about long-term planning, farmers cannot work out five years in advance that inflation and fertiliser prices will go through the roof, so contract reviews need to take place, so that they can reflect the costs that farmers face, particularly when those costs go up. Changing the GSCOP is important, as is giving the GCA more teeth.

Lastly on the SNP’s position, we agree with NFU Scotland that the UK Government have a key role to play in helping to engage the retailers and food service companies, to ensure that supermarkets do not price-gouge, that food growers and their supply chains are sustainable, and that food processors and producers, farmers, fishermen, food manufacturers and those involved in abattoirs are fairly compensated for their hard work and dedication to feeding the people of these islands.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mark Spencer]

That is a fair question from the hon. Gentleman. We have been working closely with not only retailers but processors, Dairy UK and the NFU to ensure that the regulations we are about to introduce will work for the sector across the board. I cannot give him a date as I stand here, but I will go out on a limb and commit to him that we will table them before the Easter recess. I acknowledge that we should have done it quicker, but it was more important to get it right. I am confident that we have got it right in the end.

[Kirsty Blackman]

rose—

[Kerry McCarthy (Bristol East) (Lab)]

rose—

[Mark Spencer]

I will give way to the hon. Member for Aberdeen North (Kirsty Blackman) first, and I will come back to the hon. Member for Bristol East (Kerry McCarthy).

[Kirsty Blackman]

If it takes four years for each sector, the process is going to take quite a length of time. I will probably be dead by the time all the sectors are covered. Does the Minister understand that there is some urgency? Taking less than four years would be great, and doing more than one sector at a time would also be helpful.

[Mark Spencer]

We learned an awful lot from going through the process with the dairy sector. We reviewed the pork sector and some similarities are evident, so we can go through the process much quicker if we find that evidence. The hon. Lady will be aware that we have just concluded a review into the egg sector as well, and there is an ongoing investigation into the fresh produce sector. I encourage those who are working in farming within that sector to contribute to the call for evidence, and to inform the Government of any practices that they may be concerned about so we can consider them.

Storm Babet: Flooding

Kirsty Blackman Excerpts

Monday 23rd October 2023 Commons Chamber

[Rebecca Pow]

I thank my right hon. and learned Friend for those astute observations. He is right about the more frequent incidence. This is linked to climate change—there is no doubt about that. We are focusing exactly on the whole flow of water through our plan for water, working at a catchment basis, which will be so important in future. It is local authorities’ role to keep culverts clean and all of that, so I will volunteer the Minister from DLUHC to meet him to discuss that important issue.

[Kirsty Blackman (Aberdeen North) (SNP)]

My thoughts and those of my colleagues are with all those who have lost loved ones as a result of the storm. We are also thinking about those who have lost pets or have been displaced from their homes or businesses as a result of water or wind damage during Storm Babet. I would like to thank the emergency responders and all those working in public services—whether SSE, the Scottish Environment Protection Agency, local councils or the emergency services—who stepped up to protect and prevent risk to people, and to protect homes and businesses wherever they could. The River South Esk in Brechin reached 4.4 metres above normal levels. The flood defences there were designed to cover 3.8 metres above normal levels, so they were overwhelmed by the extreme weather.

The Scottish Government are committed to helping communities. Our First Minister Humza Yousaf has been out in Brechin to speak to those affected. The UK Government hold the purse strings, and it would be much easier for us to provide the right level of protection if they took financial action. When will the UK Government begin unlocking the recovery and repair funding? Will the Minister please commit to delivering the consequentials of that funding to Scotland as a matter of urgency?

[Rebecca Pow]

I fully support the hon. Lady’s thanks to all those emergency services working in Scotland—interestingly, she named the coastguard’s involvement in her area. To everyone involved, we give our heartfelt thanks, and we give our sympathies to those who experienced tragedies. As I pointed out, this area is devolved, so I cannot comment on a lot of what she said. She knows it is devolved, and I will leave it at that.

Fishing Industry

Kirsty Blackman Excerpts

Thursday 29th June 2023 Commons Chamber

[David Duguid]

Sadly, my hon. Friend makes a valid point. Fishing, like farming or going offshore and working on an oil rig, is not for everyone; it is a hard life and a hard job. In many ways, we need to have grown up around it or been born into it. It is a generational thing. I will come back to that point later in my remarks, if my hon. Friend can be patient.

While we were under the control of the common fisheries policy, decision making always felt distant and imposed on our fishing industry from afar. Fisheries management is now managed more locally, with fisheries management plans run by local management groups to provide a formal and regular forum for engagement between fishermen, policymakers, scientists and regulators, not just for the good and the prosperity of the industry but for sustainability as well.

I have welcomed the fact that funding has been maintained, with £37 million being provided to replace the European maritime and fisheries fund, about £16 million of which goes directly to the Scottish Government to spend on fisheries and maritime issues. The £100 million UK seafood fund, which has also been welcomed, has been split between the topics of science and innovation, infrastructure, skills and training, and promotion of exports, which is a key element.

Can the Minister tell us what plans there are to help fund domestic marketing? She may be aware of the issues faced by those catching and supplying small haddock, for example, which is not traditionally an export species. How can the Government help to either promote more haddock consumption across the UK or open up new export markets for that fantastic product? I would also be interested to know what discussions the Department has had with Seafish, which I am told made a commercial decision last year to no longer promote seafood in the UK, preferring to focus on those growing export markets. I think everyone here would agree on the merits of fish as a high-quality, high-protein source of food with a relatively low carbon footprint.

On the subject of exports, I acknowledge that not every seafood exporter was fully ready to deal with the new export systems when they came into place immediately after we left the EU. I should also stress that many exporters—usually those who were already accustomed to exporting outside the European economic area—were ready to go with those new systems. The border operating model had gone through a few revisions, but had been available since it was rolled out in July the previous year. Funding and support had also been provided to impacted industries to help them prepare for the inevitability of the new systems. That included funding to devolved Administrations: for example, some £180 million was provided to the Scottish Government, which sadly I do not think was adequately applied to help exporters in Scotland. I also do not think the SNP Scottish Government helped the preparedness of our seafood exporters. I respect the view of the SNP as a political party that it did not want to leave the EU, but leave the EU we did, and it was something that we had to be prepared for.

It is also fair to acknowledge that even those exporters who had done everything right, who were accustomed to exporting around the world and got their paperwork systems in place, sadly fell foul of some of those IT systems crashing through no fault of their own. As such, I ask the Minister what assessment her Department has made of those export systems, and what improvements—for example, digitalisation and other time-saving methods—remain to be implemented.

I will now move on to the subject of spatial squeeze.

[Kirsty Blackman (Aberdeen North) (SNP)]

Before the hon. Gentleman moves off the subject of Brexit and fish processors, he has talked about mitigations, for example. Does he now admit that for fish processors and those exporting, Brexit has been a negative, not a positive?

[David Duguid]

I go back to the response I gave to the hon. Member for Paisley and Renfrewshire North (Gavin Newlands). In the last few minutes, I have acknowledged the challenges that leaving the EU has brought, but also the mitigations that have been put in place. Ultimately, though, the fishing industry and the seafood processing sector in my constituency do not have an appetite to return to the EU and the common fisheries policy. I take on board that there have been challenges, but as Elspeth Macdonald of the Scottish Fishermen’s Federation said, whether we are talking about Brexit, access to labour or access to exports, those issues all pale into insignificance compared with the impact that covid had, for example, and certainly the impact of the highly protected marine areas, which I will also talk about.

Spatial squeeze is brought about by less and less of our seas being available for commercial fishing. That can be for a number of reasons, such as offshore wind or the imposition of the marine conservation areas I have just mentioned. Neither I nor the fishing industry are against renewable energy or marine conservation in principle, but it is worrying to read last year’s combined report from the Scottish Fishermen’s Federation and the National Federation of Fishermen’s Organisations, which predicted that almost 50% of waters could be restricted for fishing by 2050, compared with less than 1% in the year 2000. I realise that there are some special interest groups out there that would quite happily see the demise of the fishing industry for various ideological reasons, but I have already mentioned the huge impact that that could have, not just on the industry but on coastal communities as a whole.

On offshore wind and other renewable projects, all the industry is asking is to be at the table when planning decisions are being made—to be in the loop. I have seen that happen to reasonably good effect between the industry and some offshore wind developers, but sadly, that is not universal.

Similarly, on marine conservation, fishermen just want to be adequately consulted on not just on where but how, and even if, measures such as HPMAs should be applied. I cannot overstate how important it is to get that engagement right. In Scotland, the SNP and Green Scottish Government are in the process of implementing those HPMAs without adequate engagement or even a pilot scheme, not even waiting to see how the pilot schemes that are currently being carried out in English waters turn out. I completely agree with Elspeth Macdonald, chief executive of the SFF, who said yesterday:

“Nobody cares more about our marine environment than those who are dependent upon it for their livelihoods—from fishermen to salmon farmers to fish processors. Opposition to this policy, which lacks scientific rationale, is widespread throughout our coastal communities. The Scottish government needs to scrap it, not rebrand it, and carry out a complete rethink without pandering to the Greens whose desire to halt legitimate economic activity with a low carbon footprint is dangerous and damaging.”

[Kirsty Blackman]

Does the hon. Member agree with his Prime Minister, who has said:

“I am committed to introducing pilots of Highly Protected Marine Areas in English waters, providing the highest level of protection for our seas, and safeguarding the 372 Marine Protected Areas”?

[David Duguid]

Yes—it was a manifesto commitment. [Interruption.] No, this gets raised time and again. When my MSP colleagues raise it in Holyrood, SNP Members shout about how the UK Government are doing it and it was in the Conservative manifesto, but there are some major differences. At the moment, the UK Government are proposing 0.53% of English waters to be covered by HPMAs, while the Scottish Government are looking for 10%, which is 20 times as much. Not only that, but the Scottish Government only have the power to implement those HPMAs within the 12-mile nautical zone, so fishing could in effect be banned in a huge area of our fishing waters. Again, I go back to the points, made not just by me but by those in the industry, about how the policy lacks a scientific rationale and is just being pushed through for ideological reasons. I appreciate that the Scottish Government are due to make a statement in the next hour or so on their response to the consultation, and I eagerly look forward to hearing it.

--- Later in debate ---

[Kirsty Blackman (Aberdeen North) (SNP)]

It is a pleasure to take part in this debate. I congratulate the hon. Member for Banff and Buchan (David Duguid) and the right hon. Member for Orkney and Shetland (Mr Carmichael), who is not in his place, on their work in securing this debate. I also thank the Backbench Business Committee for allowing the debate to happen.

Before I get into much of what I am going to say, I just want to confirm an announcement that has been made in the Scottish Parliament today by our Minister for Net Zero and Just Transition, Mairi McAllan. She said: “I can confirm today that the proposal as consulted on will not be progressed. This means that we will no longer seek to implement HPMAs across 10% of Scotland’s seas by 2026.”

As Mr Deputy Speaker will be aware, I have been sitting here during the course of this debate, so I have not had an opportunity to listen to the entire contents of what has been said. I direct Members to have a look at that statement in the Scottish Parliament if they want any more information on what is happening in that regard.

I wish to start my contribution with a few comments on Brexit. As the hon. Member for Banff and Buchan said, there have been some issues and concerns along the way, particularly for fish processers and those who are choosing to export. It has not so much been the sea of opportunity that was promised, but more that people have been set adrift. The number of fishing vessels is continuing to go down. The number of fishers has also been down over the last period. I wish to quote from a number of different articles—not the one that was quoted earlier—including from Politico. Charlie Waodie from Hull said:

“I wish I had never voted for Brexit. They told us everything that we wanted to hear.”

James Wilson, the Welsh shellfish exporter said:

“Brexit has been absolutely, fundamentally, profoundly devastating. It’s utterly ****** us.”

You can imagine what the missing word is, Mr Deputy Speaker. It is the case that people feel that they were told lies in advance of the Brexit vote. They were told how great things were going to be, and they are not as great as they thought.

[David Duguid]

As I acknowledged in my opening remarks, a lot of concerns have been raised with me, as they have no doubt been raised with her. But may I just point out that it is very easy to cherry pick certain quotes from certain individuals at certain times. What I have found when talking to people in the industry as I do, week after week, some of those quotes are not necessarily generally indicative of the overall feeling.

[Kirsty Blackman]

I agree, and I said earlier that the hon. Gentleman had talked about some of the problems people have encountered and the barriers they have faced as a result of, in his words, not being as prepared as they could have been for Brexit. I did not shy away from that or suggest he was entirely positive about the whole thing in his speech. I understand, but I feel that, particularly for fish processors and those who are exporting, it has been a much more difficult process and situation, certainly than they were led to believe, but also than before Brexit.

Things are more difficult for people exporting to the EU now than they were previously. That is particularly important with shellfish or fish that will go off very quickly and require to be exported as quickly as possible to get to their final destination. In some cases, those exports are not taking particularly longer than they were before, but in other cases it is the level of uncertainty about when that shipment will arrive that is causing problems, as well as the number and cost of the additional hoops that businesses have to go through in order to export that excellent produce.

I want to talk about the UK visa schemes. I was glad to hear the hon. Member for Banff and Buchan talking about the importance of coastal communities, as he often does. Coastal communities are incredibly important and they are at risk of depopulation. That is a problem that we see particularly across rural Scotland and it is exacerbated by the earlier situation with visas and the current situation with immigration.

When Brexit was first on the cards, I made the case that in negotiating it, the Prime Minister should say, “Which are the industries that bring in the most money to the UK, the ones that are best for our economy and most important for our economy? Those are the industries we should protect. Secondly, which are the industries whose loss would cause decimation for communities? Those are the industries we should protect.” The Government chose not to negotiate in that way but, if they had, we would not be seeing the immigration system being obstructive to people who are looking to come and live in our rural communities. We would have seen the protection of fishing and farming communities.

We know that the loss of even a small number of people from those communities will have a devastating impact, because there are not that many people living there. My colleague the hon. Member for Banff and Buchan talked about the people who grow up in those families and who go into those industries as a result. I am originally from a fishing family, a couple of generations back. Their surname is West, a name that hon. Members have probably heard—certainly in Scottish fishing circles, if not in the rest of the UK.

I have some questions for the Minister on the expansion of the UK visa schemes and the shortage occupations that have been added. We have called consistently for more occupations to be added to the shortage occupation list. The UK Government need to make decisions on that with thought and care, but they also need to make them at speed, and to put the views and expertise of the industry ahead of any ideology about stopping immigration.

The shortage occupations that have been added are share fishermen, trawler skippers and experienced deckhands. I want to ask the Minister how many businesses have been in touch to seek support in applying for sponsorship for those new shortage occupations. I am led to believe that the Government are providing a dedicated visas contact for individuals, so they should have the ability to track the number of businesses that have been in touch. What percentage of applications for those occupations are being granted? Are they generally being granted? Do the Government feel that adding these three occupations is enough or are there more that require to be added?

The announcement was made at the end of May in the hope that it would be in time for the beginning of the summer season. Given the length of time it is taking to process visa applications, is the Minister clear that they are being expedited in order for the workers to be able to come here in time for the fishing season to start?

[David Duguid]

rose—

[David Duguid]

I just want to make the hon. Lady aware that, around the same time—I think it was a couple of weeks earlier than the shortage occupation list announcement—the Home Secretary wrote to the industry, offering the fish catching sector additional facilitative support in getting visas through more quickly.

[Kirsty Blackman]

I appreciate that, but I want to know how it is working. I know the promises that were made, but what are the outcomes?

Lastly, fishing means a lot to Scotland. It means a lot to us. It is significantly higher proportion of our economy than it is for the rest of the UK. We care passionately about it, and fishing in the north-east of Scotland, or Scotland in general, is often different from fishing across the UK. We will do what we can to put the interests of those living, working and hoping to have successful businesses in Scotland first. I hope the Minister will take on board the questions and concerns we have raised, in order to ensure the continued prosperity of our fishing communities, rather than a continuation of the decimation that is happening.

Genetic Technology (Precision Breeding) Bill

Kirsty Blackman Excerpts

Report stage
Monday 31st October 2022 Commons Chamber

[Mark Spencer]

I can address many of those points when I sum up the debate, but I am interested to hear other comments from Members around the Chamber before I do so. However, I say to the right hon. Gentleman that the sector already has some robust regulatory bodies, and we want to give them the power to regulate and oversee this technology. What we do not want to do is bind the hands of those bodies so that, in 20 years’ time, we have to re-legislate for another similar structure. We will have a robust regime in place, albeit heavily regulated, that allows the flexibility for this technology to go in directions that we cannot foresee at this moment.

Mr Deputy Speaker, I look forward to further comments from colleagues and to responding to them later in the debate.

[Kirsty Blackman (Aberdeen North) (SNP)]

We are concerned about the disadvantageous position that the Bill will likely put farmers in and about the knock-on impact on farmers in Scotland, despite the fact that the Scottish Government are not yet at the stage to approve the technology in Scotland.

The regulation of genetically modified organisms is a devolved matter. There is no question about that, and the Scottish and Welsh Governments have made that clear in their responses. The Scottish Government have been clear in their opposition to the UK Government’s moves on this. We do not presently intend to amend the GMO regulatory regime in Scotland, as we want to await the outcome of the EU’s consultation on whether some gene-edited organisms will be excluded from the GM definition.

According to the Office for Budget Responsibility, we are already suffering a 4% reduction in GDP due to this hard Tory Brexit. We do not need to see the introduction of further trade barriers caused by the UK’s rush to make this change. A delay to see the outcome of the consultation early next year would be far more sensible than passing the legislation now. This is relevant because of the impact of the United Kingdom Internal Market Act 2020, which tramples over devolved competencies, and prevents the Scottish Parliament from refusing the sale of these products.

I wish to speak to new clause 9 in the name of my hon. Friend the Member for Edinburgh North and Leith (Deidre Brock), which ensures that the democratic principle of devolution is upheld and that the Scottish Parliament still has the authority to legislate on the marketing of precision bred organisms. We have raised concern after concern about the implementation of the 2020 Act. If the UK Government intend to respect devolution, which the people of Scotland voted for, they must ensure that the Scottish Parliament can continue to take those decisions.

There are both animal welfare and environmental concerns relating to precision breeding. We must ensure that those are properly considered and that all information and evidence is available before taking any decision. We strongly welcome more research into gene editing and new genetic technologies, but that must precede the wide-scale deployment of such technologies.

The Scottish Government want to ensure that Scotland operates to the highest environmental and animal welfare standards, so that our world-class Scottish grown food continues to be outstanding. The impact assessment of the Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs for the precision breeding Bill acknowledges divergence from the EU approach, which could have implications for compliance costs and future trade. We must be able to export our produce and the Bill risks our farmers being further hamstrung—in addition to all the hardships they already face as a result of this Tory Brexit.

[David Duguid]

The hon. Member will be aware of the expression of disappointment from Martin Kennedy, president of NFU Scotland, that the Scottish Government have not become more involved in a UK-wide approach to this matter. None the less, she is absolutely right to say that this is a devolved competency. Does she agree that the UK Government have done nothing but be positive in terms of inviting the Scottish Government to be as involved in this matter as they possibly can be?

[Kirsty Blackman]

I cannot answer a question about the conversations that the Scottish Government and the UK Government have had on this matter, because I am not aware of exactly how those conversations have gone. What I am concerned about is the significant amount of produce that we export to the EU and the fact that the Bill poses a risk, for example, to the export of Scottish salmon. That is because the Scottish Government will lose some of their competency over this due to the internal market Bill and to the way that this framework is laid out.

Should amendment 1 from the Green party be pushed to a vote, the SNP will support it. The paucity of evidence is particularly acute in relation to animals. The Bill also risks violating the intention and application of the Animal Welfare (Sentience) Act 2022, passed for England and Wales earlier this year. The RSPCA has highlighted the fact that the public would not and do not support that.

New clause 8 relates to the labelling of food or feed produced by precision-bred animals. Eighty four per cent of people polled consider it important that all GE products introduced for sale in the UK are labelled as such, and only 8% do not consider that to be important. We are disappointed, therefore, that the UK Government no longer plan to consider requiring labelling for these products, despite the Minister saying in January 2022 that they would look at the matter. This will have a double impact in Scotland, because, even though the Scottish Parliament does not currently permit the marketing of these products, consumers will not be able to make an informed choice due to the lack of labelling requirements.

Mr Deputy Speaker, now is not the time for this Bill to pass. The UK Government have failed to make the case for “why now?” and have failed to ensure that the devolved competencies of the Scottish Parliament are respected as they seek to push through this legislation.

[George Eustice (Camborne and Redruth) (Con)]

As the former Secretary of State who introduced this Bill on Second Reading, I rise to express a little sympathy for amendment 4—not so much sympathy that I would vote for it if it went to a Division tonight. Nevertheless, I believe that it highlights some important issues that are worthy of further consideration.

First, amendment 1 proposes removing animals altogether from the scope of the Bill. Undoubtedly, using gene editing on animals raises complex ethical issues, along with the animal welfare dimension, and it was during such discussion when the Bill was being drafted that I considered excluding animals from the Bill. However, I want to explain to the House why, after reflection, I decided that we should include them.

First, from my experience in government and, indeed, in this place, there is always a tendency to put off things that are difficult or complex and to kick the can down the road, but the right thing to do is to grapple with these complex matters and chart a course through them. Secondly, when considering some of the issues that we might be able to address through precision breeding, it became clear to me that, if this technology was used properly, we could actually enhance animal welfare in certain areas. When I first became a Minister in the Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs, the Beak Trimming Action Group set up by the last Labour Government was concluding its work. Beak trimming, using infrared beak tipping on day-old chicks, is required particularly for free-range systems, because otherwise there may be injurious pecking of laying hens. Through that work, we concluded that, while there were things we could do such as paying special regard to the feeding regime, it was against the welfare of those birds not to carry on the beak trimming.

Scallop Fishing: Bay of Seine

Kirsty Blackman Excerpts

Thursday 13th September 2018 Commons Chamber

[George Eustice]

I entirely agree with and understand my hon. Friend’s point. Much of the scallop fishing industry is based in Brixham in her constituency. She is right to say that the contested grounds are outside the 12-nautical mile limit—they are approximately 20 miles off the French coast and therefore not in French territorial waters. She is also right to say that in some areas the French fishing industry is able to fish in the UK’s six to 12-mile zone. She will be aware that the Government have already given notice, under the terms of the London fisheries convention, to withdraw from that agreement and negotiate access arrangements afresh.

[Kirsty Blackman (Aberdeen North) (SNP)]

I thank the Minister for advance sight of his statement.

This is a very disappointing outcome. I urge the Minister to get back around the table. We cannot have the same situation occurring next year. It is really important that, despite there being no outcome from this round of negotiations, he does not give up but keeps trying to ensure that an agreement with France is found. The fishing industry is incredibly important to Scotland. Can the Minister assure us that the Scottish Government will be involved in any future negotiations, so that our voice can be heard and our interests protected? He talks about moving towards Brexit and the sovereignty that we will apparently have over our nautical area. On negotiations with the EU about fishing rights post Brexit, will he assure us that any bad feeling created over this situation will not spill over into those negotiations?

In previous years, Scotland’s voice has not been heard and the Scottish Government have not been given the right opportunity to have their voice heard in the negotiations, despite fishing being so important to Scotland. Will the Minister commit to ensuring that Scottish Government Ministers are involved in the negotiations?

[George Eustice]

There are a number of points that I would make. As I said in my statement, I still hope that, even at this late stage, the French industry will agree to take up the offer to put in place the agreement for the over-15 metre vessels that has stood the test of time for the last five years. It is not too late to do that. Indeed, the inward transfer of effort that they would make to enable this deal to happen is effort that would generally go unused, were they not to use it for this purpose.

I can also confirm that, when it comes to our annual fisheries negotiations, we go as a UK delegation. Alongside me in the trilateral meetings with the European Commission and the European presidency, I have representatives, including the Scottish, Welsh and Northern Ireland fisheries Ministers. We have a well-established convention that, on issues that affect Scotland specifically, it tends to be the Scottish Minister who leads on those elements of the negotiation.

The final point I would make about the negotiations on leaving the common fisheries policy is that this side of the House believes the decision to leave the European Union was right. We are going to respect that and implement it. That involves leaving the common fisheries policy, an issue on which I know the hon. Lady’s party has mixed views.

Coastal Erosion

Kirsty Blackman Excerpts

Tuesday 12th June 2018 Westminster Hall

[Kirstene Hair]

I absolutely agree with my hon. Friend and hope that the Minister will take seriously my call for this kind of compensation scheme, which would help constituents in the borders, in Angus and indeed across our United Kingdom in areas that are prone to flooding.

[Kirsty Blackman (Aberdeen North) (SNP)]

Will the hon. Lady give way?

[Kirstene Hair]

I am running out of time. I have just a little of my speech left and we have a huge number of Members who want to speak.

Our coastal communities are thriving areas and we must do everything we can to support them. To do that, we must act on erosion and act quickly to secure their future not only to protect our coastline from erosion, but to eliminate, as far as possible, the looming threat that erosion poses. So let this be a call for ambition, co-operation and urgency—from the Scottish Government in particular, but also from the UK Government, the other devolved Administrations and our local authorities. We should all be invested in the bright future of our coastal economy. Let us not allow erosion to spoil it.

--- Later in debate ---

[Kirsty Blackman (Aberdeen North) (SNP)]

Thank you, Sir David. I will do my best not to take too long. I am grateful to you for chairing the debate, and I thank the hon. Member for Angus (Kirstene Hair) for securing it and the Backbench Business Committee for scheduling it.

This is a useful debate; it is clear that this is a serious and worrying issue with the potential for long-lasting devastating effects. The other point made clear today is that the issue is not the same in all areas. Just like the varied coastline throughout Scotland, England, Northern Ireland and Wales, the issues that each part of that coastline faces are different.

As my hon. Friend the Member for Livingston (Hannah Bardell) mentioned, the Scottish Government fund such issues on a recurring basis, with £42 million of capital funding per year since 2008. That is really important in relation to flood prevention and coastal erosion, which are linked.

[Douglas Ross]

I welcome the hon. Lady’s point, but the figure from the Scottish Government that she cites pales into insignificance when we take into consideration that the Elgin flood alleviation scheme alone cost £86 million. The funding coming from her Government in a year does not even fund half of that scheme.

[Kirsty Blackman]

The Scottish Government would have more money to spend on issues such as flood prevention and coastal erosion—

[Douglas Ross]

If they were not obsessed with independence.

[Kirsty Blackman]

The Scottish Government would have more money if Scotland was an independent country and we had the ability to raise our own taxes and, for example, support immigration and grow our population in the way that we would like it to grow. Immigration is important for coastal communities, particularly because of the people who have moved out of those communities. As my hon. Friend the Member for Livingston mentioned, many of the houses in Pennan are owned by second-home owners, not people who live there. We need to grow Scotland’s population so that people are living there and standing up for and protecting those areas.

The hon. Member for Moray (Douglas Ross) was very clear about how important it is that his constituents are protected, which I completely agree with, but I was concerned about his disregard for the flora and fauna that we also need to protect. A huge number of people have raised concerns about the effect of plastics in our oceans, for example, and I think many of our constituents would be hugely concerned about the impact on marine wildlife of any changes that are sought. That is why it is important that any decisions on protecting areas from coastal erosion are made with the best information, and why the Scottish Government have funded the national coastal change assessment. Phase 1 is completed and they are on to phase 2. Given the dramatic effects of climate change, and that coastal erosion is speeding up, it is incredibly important that any decisions are taken while looking at the current effects of climate change. It is an ever-moving feast and we need to have the best possible information before taking any decisions.

It was interesting to hear some of the issues hon. Members have with studies taking place. Angus Council’s study will not be finished until July 2019; the hon. Member for Angus is pushing for action right now, when the council has not completed its study. The other point that bugs me about what that council is doing is that it has not committed to use the full funding it has been given for the purpose of protecting against coastal erosion. It takes a special kind of hypocrisy for a council to say, “We are not spending all of the money we have been given for this purpose, but we would like some more.” I do not think that is a sensible position to take. The case made by the hon. Member for Angus would be much stronger if the local authority could evidence that it had spent all the money it had been allocated in the correct way to protect against coastal erosion.

Further on funding, the Scottish Government have committed to putting their Crown Estates money towards the betterment of coastal communities, which will be a recurring amount of money provided to councils such as Angus. It would be useful if that council would commit to using the money for preventing coastal erosion, particularly in relation to the concerns around the golf links that the hon. Lady mentioned and the erosion that is happening at some speed in that area.

I represent Aberdeen, with its beautiful beach that was immortalised in the mid-20th century railway posters as “the Silver City with the Golden Sands”. In 2006, action was taken in Aberdeen to protect our coastline from erosion and we now have what are called T-groins—large defences that ensure our beach is not washed away. It was good that that action was taken, but it did not receive universal buy-in when it was first put forward. People, not least the surfing community, raised a number of concerns. It has taken time for that to bed in and for us to be able to prove that it has not had the negative effects suggested.

One of the important things going forward with action on coastal erosion is to ensure that communities buy into it and that we are doing whatever we can to protect housing, properties and tourism, but also marine life. In Scotland, the marine litter strategy was introduced a number of years ago—it is not a new thing. It is about tackling the issues that damage the most vulnerable marine wildlife.

It is very important that we come together. We absolutely must look at making sure that studies are done so that the best possible, futureproofed, action can be taken, but we must get the communities on board, including those in the wider community—perhaps those who do not live near the coast but are particularly concerned about the impact on wildlife. As I have said in Westminster Hall a number of times, we need to work together and we can all learn from each other. Action taken in some places in Scotland could be replicated in some places in England, and vice versa. We need to make sure that with any action we take to protect any of our coastlines, we are learning from the experiences of others and ensuring that those coastlines are protected for future generations.

Oral Answers to Questions

Kirsty Blackman Excerpts

Thursday 26th April 2018 Commons Chamber

[George Eustice]

I have had the pleasure of visiting my hon. Friend’s constituency, and the Secretary of State will visit it next month. I have met representatives from the processing sector. My hon. Friend’s part of the world is home to a world-beating fish processing industry. I have had detailed dialogue with the sector about the importance of trade with non-EU countries such as Norway and Iceland. I am confident that we can roll forward the trade agreements on which they depend.

[Kirsty Blackman (Aberdeen North) (SNP)]

The Scottish Creel Fishermen’s Federation says that the cost of fishing could increase by between 40% and 90% if we have no trade deal with the EU. What is the Minister doing to ensure that fishing continues to make its current contribution to the economy?

[George Eustice]

We have made it clear that, when we leave the EU, it is our intention to depart from relative stability and current quota-sharing arrangements, and there is an opportunity to secure a better and much larger share of fish in the future. Alongside that, as I said earlier, we are seeking a comprehensive free trade agreement with the European Union.

UK Fishing Industry

Kirsty Blackman Excerpts

Thursday 7th December 2017 Commons Chamber

[Kirsty Blackman (Aberdeen North) (SNP)]

This is the first time that I have taken part in the annual fishing debate, and I am delighted to have this opportunity to sum up for the Scottish National party. Although I was born in Aberdeen and have lived most of my life there, before I was five I lived in Gamrie, which is also known as Gardenstown, near Banff in the north-east of Scotland. That little community has historically been dominated by fishing and continues to be so to this day. My great-great-grandfather, John Murray, was killed while fishing, at the age of 34, during the first world war. My grandfather—my “granda”—John West, was the skipper of the Banff-registered May Lily, a 70-foot trawler that went out from Gamrie. He skippered that vessel from 1968 to 1975, having been on it for a number of years before that. The fishing history is strong in my family, particularly on my dad’s side.

It was a very different landscape back then; people had very different attitudes. The boats were much smaller, and people stayed on one fishing boat for much longer than they perhaps do nowadays. Things have moved quite significantly, particularly since the 1970s, but even in recent years there has been a significant change. One of the big changes in recent years has been the increase in sustainability. The hon. Member for West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine (Andrew Bowie) mentioned cod stocks, and the reason for the increase in sustainability is the better management of the fishing stocks. We are able to look at this scientifically and sustainably to ensure that the stocks continue to grow so that we can ensure the future of the fishing industry for the long term in the north-east of Scotland and across the rest of the United Kingdom. In the UK, 65% of the tonnage of fish landed by UK vessels is landed by Scottish vessels. Over 50% of all fishing jobs in the UK are in Scotland, as are 56% of the jobs involved in going out fishing, rather than in the processing side.

The SNP has regularly raised a number of concerns about the way in which the UK deals with fishing. The deficiencies of the common fisheries policy have been raised by my colleagues and by other Members across the House today, but we have particular concerns about the way in which the UK decides to divvy up the quotas. The North sea whiting top-slice continues to be a major concern to us. Allowing English coastal communities to have more for their 10-metre-and-under inshore vessels is disadvantaging Scottish fishermen. The Scottish Government have been absolutely consistent in their criticism of that policy, and we will continue to be so.

Another thing that my colleagues have mentioned is the UK’s swap package, particularly in relation to blue whiting. That continues to be a concern for us as well. We cannot be swapping with Norway and not getting back what our fishermen fish. We have been consistent in our criticism of the way in which the UK Government have prioritised the fishing industry. It is incredibly important in the north-east of Scotland. It is not that we want to see less priority being given to fishermen in English coastal communities; we want to see more priority given to those who are trawling for white fish in particular in the north-east of Scotland and across the whole of Scotland. That is another major concern.

A number of Members have talked about Brexit. I want to mention the new port and the refurbishments that have been done at the port in Peterhead. More than £5 million of the money that went into the new port came from the European Union, and a further £6 million came from the Scottish Government to improve the port at Peterhead. I understand that the new fish market is under way, and is looking very positive. However, that could not have been done in the same format without the European money that we have received, and we would like some clarity from the Minister as to what will replace it. What will he do to ensure that our fishing industry is fit for the future, particularly in relation to the critical infrastructure that is needed? Peterhead is an amazing port that lands a significant proportion of the fish that is landed across the United Kingdom, and we need to ensure that we can continue to have the curve on them.

In more Brexit-related issues, the hon. Member for South East Cornwall (Mrs Murray), who introduced the debate, talked specifically about trading with France, but few people seem to realise how much we export to France, which is the destination for 27.5% of our fish exports. It is therefore incredibly important for our fish processors and fishermen and for everybody involved in the fishing industry that we have a trade deal with France, and therefore the whole European Union, that allows us to export that amount with few hold-ups at customs and that does not have the 7% to 11% tariffs that we would see under WTO rules, which would be a major problem. As has been mentioned already, leaving the single market will cost the industry about £42 million, which is an incredible amount of money.

My last point is about the Government’s prioritisation of looking at the industries that will be hit by Brexit. I am unsure of their level of prioritisation, but the little prioritisation that they are doing seems to be concentrated on industries that offer a particularly high tax take for the Treasury, such as the finance and car industries. I want them to look a little more at the communities that will be decimated by the loss of a certain industry, such as fishing, and to prioritise on that basis as well.

Seagulls

Kirsty Blackman Excerpts

Tuesday 7th February 2017 Westminster Hall

[Kirsty Blackman (Aberdeen North) (SNP)]

It is an honour to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Streeter. I really appreciate it that the hon. Member for Plymouth, Sutton and Devonport (Oliver Colvile) has brought this issue to us for debate. I want to start by talking about Aberdeen and the reasons why I feel it is important for me to be here. I was reading the Library briefing—those briefings are really useful for a lot of debates—and about the number of gulls that are apparently in the United Kingdom. Apparently there are 45,000 herring gulls in the United Kingdom. According to the city council’s website, there are 3,500 pairs in Aberdeen. That means we have 15% of the UK’s herring gull population in our city. That seems quite unbelievable, but it comes from the figures provided. Look up internet memes on seagulls—the Aberdeen seagull is the size of a large dog. It is absolutely ginormous and it regularly gets mentioned; people who come to uni in Aberdeen from Glasgow or elsewhere in Scotland or England are shocked at the size of these creatures. They are not like normal seagulls; they are ginormous. We mostly have herring gulls, although we also have some lesser black-backed gulls.

The hon. Member for St Ives (Derek Thomas) talked about gulls beginning to behave badly, but he went on to say that we have been grappling with this problem for a long time. I grew up in Aberdeen and during my entire lifetime there has been a plague of these creatures. In Aberdeen we introduced wheelie bins and on-street bins as well because we have a huge number of tenement properties in the city. There is a huge number of places where people cannot have wheelie bins. We now have a really good on-street bin system with large bins on the streets. Residents have to put up with a slight loss of parking as a result of those big bins, which have big lids on them. The birds cannot access the bins, so they have been pretty successful in deterring the birds’ access to food.

As for the issues caused by seagulls, stealing food and aggression have been mentioned, as has the fact that they used be on land really only between April and September, but increasingly are beginning to winter in cities and towns rather than going out to sea. That causes a real problem because we continue to have these issues throughout the year.

There are a couple of issues that have not really been mentioned, such as noise. A huge amount of the correspondence that I get from constituents on this subject is about the problem of noise. It is about the concern that they are being woken at 3 o’clock in the morning by seagulls fighting with one another. I used to live on the Gallowgate in Aberdeen. There are several multi-storey buildings there and we were on the 13th floor of flats. Without fail, throughout the breeding season, we would be woken throughout the night by the noise of seagulls and that was a real problem.

Gulls cause significant damage to buildings, around chimney stacks, for example. They cause damage to people’s roofs. They cause damage to business buildings. Again, that has not really been mentioned. There is a financial cost associated with this problem, as well as the issue of people being scared of coming into town because of the aggression.

Seagulls also carry diseases. According to a piece of literature from our local authority—it is also called a “Survivor’s Guide”; I think Aberdeen City Council and Aberdeenshire Council got together to compose these survivors’ guides—they can carry salmonella and TB. It is pretty concerning to know that we have these creatures roaming about our city, carrying diseases that can badly affect human beings.

Those are all the issues, and my mailbox indicates that seagulls are never far away from the minds of my constituents. When people come in the door to talk to my office staff, they often mention in passing the problems that they have faced with seagulls. In fact, I wrote to the Scottish Government Minister last September following a spate of emails that residents had sent raising concerns.

It strikes me that there are a few things that can be done and a few things that could be done better. In Scotland, taking action by removing eggs, for example, is licensed by Scottish Natural Heritage. Companies can exercise that option, which ensures that the action is taken humanely and only in circumstances where there is no alternative. Action cannot be taken when spikes could be put up. However, gulls are increasingly managing to navigate a way around spikes. They have more of a problem with nets, but nets cannot be put on all roofs.

[Steve Double]

Does the hon. Lady agree that part of the problem is that gulls are very tenacious and intelligent birds and that no matter what measures we take to deter them, it usually only a matter of time before they find a way around them?

[Kirsty Blackman]

I absolutely agree. One thing about gulls is that they learn from one another, so if one gull manages to find a way around something, they all do, because they observe one another and learn. Such things as removing eggs and oiling eggs work, as does poking holes in them. Dumfries and Galloway Council did a study on the efficacy of those methods, and the results showed that they work.

Other studies have previously been done in Scotland. In 2010, the Scottish Government commissioned a study on using falcons and birds of prey, as my hon. Friend the Member for North Ayrshire and Arran (Patricia Gibson) mentioned, so they have specific details on that. That 10-week study was not quite as successful as it could have been, but the Scottish Government learnt a lot and have a huge amount of recommendations for people. For example, we do not want to have falcons flying around at the same time each day because the gulls get used to it and stop being scared of them. A huge number of useful recommendations came out of the study. Using such things as distress calls, kites, pyrotechnics and lasers was also suggested.

I appreciate having a chance to speak in the debate. To wind up my comments, an issue we face in Aberdeen is that although the Scottish Government have overarching responsibility for the matter and local authorities are then responsible for specific areas of nuisance, the local authority is clear that individual building owners have to take the action. As we see when we are trying to get lights replaced in tenement buildings, it is sometimes very difficult to get owners to take action. If the council is not the majority owner in a property—for example, a tenement building—and we are trying to get eggs removed from it, it is very hard to get that to happen. Although sharing good practice is a good idea and we should do more of it, there is an issue with who is responsible and the lack of compulsion on landlords and property owners to take action. If they are not willing to take action, the noise made by the birds affects everybody around. Again, I thank the hon. Member for Plymouth, Sutton and Devonport for securing the debate.

--- Later in debate ---

[Dr Coffey]

It certainly will not be possible to do that until we leave the European Union, and I am concerned that opening up elements of regional protection might make the law unworkable. Nevertheless, let us consider that when the opportunity is there, in due course. I am sure the hon. Gentleman will return to this subject, although I am also sure that he will try to ensure that we never again have to debate these measures, by getting on with things.

[Kirsty Blackman]

Will the Minister give way?

[Dr Coffey]

I will just make a bit of progress, because I will talk about Scotland and Aberdeen—

[Kirsty Blackman]

My point was on the studies.

[Dr Coffey]

Okay; I give way.

[Kirsty Blackman]

Specifically on the studies, the hon. Member for Workington (Sue Hayman), who spoke from the Labour Front Bench, and I both mentioned the study undertaken in Scotland in 2010. I would appreciate it if the Minister had a look at that. I would also appreciate it if the contraceptives study that DEFRA is undertaking, which she has just mentioned, could be shared with the Scottish Government when it comes out.

[Dr Coffey]

I am quite sure that that research can be made available, and the research the hon. Lady refers to is well established and available for anybody to see.

The current legislation provides sufficient powers to take appropriate action to tackle the problems caused by gulls. It provides a range of methods that those authorised can use to manage birds humanely, and it permits population control, nest clearance and egg control. I assure the hon. Member for Barrow and Furness that landowners can employ competent others to act under a general licence. While there are no provisions within current legislation to allow the control of birds specifically for the purpose of relieving nuisance or damage to property, the legislation allows for the control or disturbance of certain wild birds for particular reasons. Those most relevant to urban gull issues are if such action is taken in the interest of public health and safety, or to prevent disease.

Natural England’s general licence allows those authorised to kill or take lesser black-backed gulls and to damage or destroy the nests or eggs of lesser black-backed gulls and herring gulls to preserve public health or safety, or to prevent the spread of disease or serious damage to livestock and crops. These general licences have a very low regulatory burden. Those authorised do not need to apply to Natural England to make use of them, provided they comply with the licence conditions. These conditions include making sure that non-lethal methods are ineffective or impractical, and users do not need to report any action undertaken to Natural England.

Where an individual cannot undertake the control required under a general licence, it does not mean they cannot take action, but they would need to apply for an individual licence to do so. Natural England commonly issues individual licences to permit the control of gulls for health and safety purposes. On average, it issues 17 individual licences for herring gull control for health and safety purposes annually, and it grants most of the applications that it receives. Indeed, the Wildlife and Countryside Act 1981 also provides for action to be taken without a licence if the action in question is urgently necessary, such as preserving public health and safety. This allows a person to take action in a genuine emergency without fear of committing an offence, where it would not have been possible for them to have predicted the issue and to have acted under a licence. I understand that between 2014 and 2017, Natural England issued 10 individual licences in Devon to permit the control of large gulls, in addition to the general licences.

While licensing control of birds populations can help to control the number of gulls, we should not rely solely on a licensing approach to control gull populations. We should look at other measures to manage the problem in a sustainable way. Local authorities, businesses and individuals are able to take a range of actions to manage urban gull populations. We encourage all local authorities and businesses to help to address the problem by, as has largely been pointed out, removing sources of food such as fallen fruit and accessible household waste, using bins with secured lids, ensuring that domestic animals are not fed outside, using birds of prey to scare gulls, and providing local education measures. In all cases, individuals and local authorities concerned about the effects of gulls are recommended to seek advice from Natural England’s wildlife licensing unit, which offers free advice to those experiencing problems with gulls. Local teams have the knowledge and expertise to help.

I am sure that my hon. Friend the Member for Plymouth, Sutton and Devonport is aware of some of the excellent practice across the country. In his own county, East Devon District Council has introduced a range of current control measures—I see that my right hon. Friend the Member for East Devon (Sir Hugo Swire) is in his place, I think for the next debate. These measures include using litter bins in seaside towns with secure openings to prevent scavenging, displaying posters in seaside towns and distributing them to local food businesses—

Oral Answers to Questions

Kirsty Blackman Excerpts

Thursday 4th February 2016 Commons Chamber

[Kirsty Blackman (Aberdeen North) (SNP)]

2. What assessment the Electoral Commission has made of the effect of the level of policy development grants on the operation of political parties.

[Mr Streeter]

The Electoral Commission has recently written to the Government setting out its recommended approach to implementing the reduction of policy development grants, which the Government announced in the spending review and autumn statement of 2015. A copy of the Electoral Commission’s letter will be placed in the House Library.

[Kirsty Blackman]

Policy development grants allow political parties to develop considered, costed policies to the benefit of the people living in the UK. As the hon. Gentleman said, the grants are to suffer a cut, which will save the Treasury a very small amount of money relatively but have a big impact on political parties. Does he agree that there could not be a less appropriate time for such a cut?

[Mr Streeter]

The important thing is how the money is allocated among the various parties. The hon. Lady will know that the Electoral Commission has consulted the smaller parties. It has written to the Government recommending that those parties should be disproportionately protected—that is, they should get a smaller cut than the larger ones. The Electoral Commission is waiting for the Government to respond to that advice.