Seaborne Freight

Jonathan Edwards Excerpts

Tuesday 8th January 2019 Commons Chamber

[Chris Grayling]

The clearest assurance that I can give is that I have been to Calais and met my French counterpart to talk about this issue, I have met the president of the Nord-Pas-de-Calais, and officials have had discussions, and I have had no sense from any of those conversations that the French want anything other than to maintain the fluid movement of trade through the channel ports. That is something to which we should all aspire.

[Jonathan Edwards (Carmarthen East and Dinefwr) (PC)]

Does not this sorry episode clearly indicate that the absurd mantra of a managed no deal is a contradiction in terms?

[Chris Grayling]

As I say, the Government do not aspire to a managed or an unmanaged no deal—we want to secure a deal—but it is not responsible not to prepare for all eventualities.

Rail Review: Terms of Reference

Jonathan Edwards Excerpts

Thursday 11th October 2018 Commons Chamber

[Chris Grayling]

My officials and I are in conversations with those overseeing the railways in the north all the time. Clearly, there have been improvements. TransPennine Express had issues with the timetabling of Northern, which had a knock-on effect on its services. That situation has improved. There is further to go, but the hon. Lady’s constituents will benefit from the arrival of new trains this autumn. One of the issues on TransPennine Express is capacity. More capacity will be coming on through. I am always happy to talk to her off line because I want to ensure that local problems are dealt with. She knows that she can always collar me in the Division Lobby—we are not always in the same Lobby, of course, but she is always welcome to grab me in the corridor if there are any particular issues.

[Jonathan Edwards (Carmarthen East and Dinefwr) (PC)]

Diolch yn fawr, Madam Deputy Speaker. The Wales Governance Centre recently published figures that showed my country would have received an extra £5.6 billion since 1999 if the rate of infrastructure investment had kept pace with that of London and the south-east of England. Will the terms of reference for the review include how to ensure a more equitable share of investment so that Welsh taxpayers’ money is no longer siphoned off to invest in infrastructure here in London and the south-east?

[Chris Grayling]

I do not think that the Welsh can ever claim that their money is siphoned off to pay for the rest of the country, given the amount of support from taxpayers elsewhere in the UK that goes into Wales, but we will be looking at all aspects of the industry, how we operate different parts of the infrastructure and ensuring that we do the right things for the whole of the UK.

Heathrow

Jonathan Edwards Excerpts

Thursday 7th June 2018 Commons Chamber

[Jesse Norman]

Yes, I can. I have visited Heathrow and discussed this issue with the chief executive, and Heathrow is absolutely clear that a central part of the proposal is to enable better domestic connectivity as part of a wider international and national strategy.

[Jonathan Edwards (Carmarthen East and Dinefwr) (PC)]

Following on from the question from the right hon. Member for Twickenham (Sir Vince Cable), the third runway will, as I understand it, double the passenger capacity of Heathrow, so on what grounds does the Department for Transport believe that the public investment figures suggested by Transport for London for the connection between London and Heathrow are incorrect?

[Jesse Norman]

As the hon. Gentleman will be aware, Heathrow’s connectivity will be very heavily supported. It is already the beneficiary of an upgraded Piccadilly line from the east and of Crossrail, too. A lot of work is being done on western and south-western access, to say nothing of potential access from the Chilterns, which will be a matter of great interest to you, Mr Speaker. It will be well connected on the ground, as well as in the air.

Airports National Policy Statement

Jonathan Edwards Excerpts

Tuesday 5th June 2018 Commons Chamber

[Chris Grayling]

I give my hon. Friend that assurance. Like many other Members, my view is that this decision should have been taken a long time ago. At least we are taking it now, and I want to get on with the job.

[Jonathan Edwards (Carmarthen East and Dinefwr) (PC)]

Transport for London has estimated that it will cost some £20 billion to link the third runway to London. Will the Department be designating that as UK spend or as England-only spend? If the Secretary of State cannot answer that question now, will he make sure that the Government officially outline their position before we are expected to vote?

[Chris Grayling]

As I have said before, I do not recognise that figure. We have a well-designed plan to deliver the transformation of surface access to Heathrow—some privately funded and some already in the investment pipeline—such as on Crossrail and HS2, all of which is reflected in the settlements that exist across the United Kingdom for capital spending.

Transport Secretary: East Coast Franchise

Jonathan Edwards Excerpts

Wednesday 23rd May 2018 Commons Chamber

[Andy McDonald]

Absolutely. The private sector can organise financing, but the funding has to come from somewhere. It always comes from the same source: it is provided by taxpayers and by fare-paying passengers. It is paid for, so it is wrong for the Secretary of State to repeatedly credit companies with the investment made by taxpayers and passengers who are paying sky-high fares. Public ownership does not mean less investment. Under Labour, it will mean greater investment.

[Jonathan Edwards (Carmarthen East and Dinefwr) (PC)]

I am not sure whether this is bad timing, but the hon. Gentleman will be aware that today in Wales the Labour Government have awarded the Welsh franchise to a multinational French-Spanish company, KeolisAmey, in a £5 billion 15-year deal, despite a manifesto promise to award it on a not-for-profit basis. Why are his Labour colleagues in Wales directly contradicting what he is proposing today?

[Andy McDonald]

That is entirely a matter for the Welsh Government.

The east coast saga is littered with incompetence and delusion, alongside a frankly cavalier regard for the public and passenger interest by a succession of Transport Ministers.

Oral Answers to Questions

Jonathan Edwards Excerpts

Thursday 19th April 2018 Commons Chamber

[Joseph Johnson]

On the contrary, equivalent trains to the ones that will be in service were already operational. As I have just said, bi-mode trains that are capable of running at more than 120 mph in diesel mode are already now in use on the Great Western main line.

[Jonathan Edwards (Carmarthen East and Dinefwr) (PC)]

12. What discussions he has had with the Prime Minister on the cancellation of the electrification of the Great Western main line between Cardiff and Swansea.

[The Secretary of State for Transport (Chris Grayling)]

The Prime Minister and I discussed Cardiff to Swansea at the time, and reached the view that spending hundreds of millions of pounds of taxpayers’ money and causing massive disruption to passengers to enable the same trains to travel on the same route at the same speed to the same timetable as they do today was not actually a sensible thing to do.

[Jonathan Edwards]

We know from press reports issued during the Easter break that the Prime Minister personally made the decision to renege on an election promise to electrify the main line to Swansea on the basis of cost. Is not the reality that the British Government do not consider the west of my country worthy of investment?

[Chris Grayling]

We made the decisions about electrification on the midland main line and the line between Cardiff and Swansea on the simple basis that spending hundreds of millions or billions of pounds to achieve the same journey times in the same trains was not sensible. The trains on the Great Western route are already in operation, delivering services to people in Swansea, for whom it is a great and important investment. Trains on the midland main line require the addition of one engine to provide a little bit of extra acceleration, but they already exist, and will be great for that line as well. So let us hear none of this nonsense from Opposition Members. In fact, during the years when they were in government, this was their policy: they believed that what was important was capacity and delivery, not electrification, and I agreed with them.

High Speed Rail (West Midlands - Crewe) Bill

Jonathan Edwards Excerpts

2nd reading: House of Commons & Allocation of time motion: House of Commons & Carry-over motion: House of Commons & Money resolution: House of Commons & 2nd reading & Allocation of time motion & Carry-over motion & Money resolution
Tuesday 30th January 2018 Commons Chamber

[The Secretary of State for Transport (Chris Grayling)]

I beg to move, That the Bill be now read a Second time.

It is four years since my predecessor, my right hon. Friend the Member for Derbyshire Dales (Sir Patrick McLoughlin), stood at this Dispatch Box to seek powers for a new railway line between London and the north, the first new major railway line north of London for 120 years. At that time, it was simply a concept—an important one but one that seemed a long way off. We have come a long way since. In February 2017, Parliament granted powers to construct phase 1 of the scheme, from London to the west midlands, and works on part of this route have now begun. This project is now a developing reality. We came a step closer to an operating railway when we announced the shortlist of companies that will bid for the west coast partnership and design, launch and operate the early passenger services on HS2.

This vital new rail capacity project, under construction from London to Birmingham, is only the first part of the project. We need to deliver capacity to our northern cities and bring our country closer together. I am pleased to stand here today, therefore, to start the next phase of this vital project. Phase 2a extends HS2 from the west midlands to Crewe. The first stage of the new line, which will take the midlands engine through to the northern powerhouse, connecting the two together, will accelerate construction of the first section of phase 2 by six years and bring us a step closer to delivering a complete brand-new high-speed line all the way to Manchester. That is the importance of today’s debate. It is this link that will take the railway line towards Manchester—finally to one of our great cities and industrial centres of the north-west.

[Jonathan Edwards (Carmarthen East and Dinefwr) (PC)]

As the Secretary of State will be aware, the statement of funding policy that accompanied the last comprehensive spending review awarded to Wales a 0% Barnett consequential rating for HS2, whereas Scotland and Northern Ireland both had 100%. Unless he can assure the House that Wales will get a 100% rating in the next CSR, my colleagues and I will have no option but to vote against the Bill this evening.

[Chris Grayling]

If the House does not support the Bill, the Crewe hub and the links to north Wales that it will provide will be simply an illusion, so the hon. Gentleman and his colleagues would be doing down Wales, which would be surprising—though, of course, it is typically Conservative Members who are the real champions of Wales. We will continue to ensure we provide the right connections to Wales.

--- Later in debate ---

[Rachael Maskell]

We could spend a long time talking about the shenanigans that also took place in this House over the creation of the Victorian railways.

Future capacity is vital. Although longer trains, digital signalling and infrastructure upgrades connecting with new rolling stock may get us through the current period, we will need more lines if we are to look further ahead. If we are to develop more lines, it is right that we seriously consider where they go.

HS2 gives us a real opportunity to think about the future of our country and how we connect it to address the unacceptable levels of inequality across Britain. HS2 is not just about the route itself but about freeing up capacity on the west coast main line and on our roads. This will bring benefit to current road and rail users, as well as creating new opportunities for further development of passenger and, importantly, freight paths on the west coast, as my hon. Friend the Member for Liverpool, Riverside (Mrs Ellman) highlighted and my hon. Friend the Member for Stoke-on-Trent Central (Gareth Snell) asked for.

Of course, Labour would, as always, be looking at the bigger picture, embedding HS2 at the heart of a wider rail and transport strategy. It would be absolutely nonsensical to make such significant investment in a new rail line if we were not properly upgrading the north-west to north-east routes—the HS3 routes. The Secretary of State is not in his place at the moment, but I hope that he will take heed of this. It is not too late to reverse his decision to de-electrify the plans and put power back into the northern powerhouse. The cities in the north demand it. We believe that HS2, integrated with a new, dynamic rail plan, must bring economic investment to the midlands and the north, creating good jobs for a secure future, not least with the new skills required in designing and constructing HS2 through the 30,000 jobs it will create.

My hon. Friend the Member for Crewe and Nantwich (Laura Smith) eloquently set out a strong economic case for proper connectivity through a regional rail hub at Crewe, this being at the centre of a network to feed Cheshire and the wider counties, and north Wales. That is vital for the future economy of Crewe. I can think of no better politician than my hon. Friend to speak up for her town and to make that case.

We must remember that HS2 is not an entirety in itself but a bridge to enable economic growth and industrial investment. My hon. Friend the Member for City of Chester (Christian Matheson) made a similar point, again focusing on how to build the economies of the north-west by ensuring connectivity. It is vital that HS2 talks to the region, and we must dissect this in Committee to ensure that it does. I note his calling for the line to north Wales through Chester. We should not dismiss this opportunity for some of the communities in the UK who most need this infrastructure stimulus. My hon. Friend the Member for Leigh (Jo Platt) also stressed the need to focus on connectivity. A clear call for integration has been made—one that Labour will support.

Phase 2a is set to deliver nearly £4 billion of benefits over the 60-year appraisal period, with a cost-benefit ratio of 1:9 and wider economic impacts. This indicates upper-end medium value for money, but accelerating this phase will represent very high value for money. Around Crewe, we will see 40,000 new jobs and 7,000 homes, opening up the life chances that have not been seen in the area before and starting to address the complete economic imbalance that we have in our country. Extending this to the Constellation Partnership will deliver 100,000 new homes and 120,000 jobs—20,000 in the Cheshire science corridor alone, putting the UK on the international stage in terms of science and technology.

I assure the House that Labour will never stand in the way of providing such opportunities to communities that have been crying out for investment—a point powerfully made by my hon. Friend the Member for Birmingham, Edgbaston (Preet Kaur Gill).

[Jonathan Edwards]

I take the point that the hon. Lady is making. However, the KPMG report that looked into the impact of HS2 on various economies across the British state indicated that south Wales would be absolutely hammered. Is the Labour party not at all concerned about the economy of south Wales?

[Rachael Maskell]

Of course we are deeply concerned about the economy of south Wales. That is why we electrified the line to south Wales that helped to boost the economy in that region, and also ensured that HS2 fed into north Wales, helping the whole of the Welsh economy to grow.

We have some concerns, and it is absolutely right that there is tight scrutiny of every part of the project, as my right hon. Friend the Member for Rother Valley (Sir Kevin Barron) highlighted. At a time when the economy continues to fail, not least in the north, Labour understands why people are questioning the economic benefit of spending £55.7 billion on a rail route. This 36-mile section will cost £3.5 billion. At a time when our public services are crying out for investment, it is right that critical questions are asked about the project. However, the benefits are also clear, and it cannot be an either/or. This is about getting the Government’s economic strategy right. We will make sure that every decision brings maximum inward investment, as the economic opportunity is already estimated to be £92 billion across HS2.

We hear the concerns about the environment. It is vital that real consideration is given in Committee to the impact of construction and of the final network on the environment. That cannot just be about mitigation elsewhere, and I will push for us to maximise this opportunity. I will also want to ensure in Committee that modern, advanced engineering is able to find answers to the many questions raised about the environment and how the habitats directive, no matter which side of Brexit we are on, is seen in its fullest sense.

The hon. Member for Stafford (Jeremy Lefroy), who spoke particularly well on behalf of his constituents, highlighted how important it is to ensure that his constituents’ concerns are picked up. I assure him that in Committee, we will listen carefully to the points he has to make. The right hon. Member for Chesham and Amersham (Dame Cheryl Gillan) spoke of her vast experience in dealing with HS2. It is really important that lessons are learned and that there is good communication, and we must certainly end corridor deals.

Rail Franchising

Jonathan Edwards Excerpts

Wednesday 10th January 2018 Commons Chamber

[Andy McDonald]

My right hon. Friend makes a perfect point. I have no doubt that that will be a consistent theme throughout this debate.

The Government should have followed Labour’s example. When the operator defaulted in 2009, Labour took the contract back into the public sector. If a company defaults, it does not deserve a contract. Taking a contract back into the public sector would mean that there is no reward for failure, and other companies in the industry would not expect the same treatment. In the light of what happened with the east coast franchise, what plans does the Secretary of State have to renegotiate the TransPennine Express, Northern and Greater Anglia franchises?

[Jonathan Edwards (Carmarthen East and Dinefwr) (PC)]

The hon. Gentleman makes a valid point. Is not the biggest danger of the Secretary of State’s decision that other franchisees might come looking for a handout?

[Andy McDonald]

Indeed. That point is entirely consistent with the issues I am putting before the House.

Labour would not have let Virgin-Stagecoach off the hook on the east coast franchise. To return to what my right hon. Friend the Member for Leeds Central (Hilary Benn) said, did the Secretary of State consider taking the east coast franchise into the public sector following the default—yes or no? Does the Secretary of State not worry that, because he refuses to use a public sector operator even as a last resort, struggling train companies now know he has no option but to bail them out in the event of a failure?

Such failures are not confined to the east coast franchise. Today’s National Audit Office report highlights a litany of errors in the Government’s planning and management of the Thameslink, Southern and Great Northern franchise. Those blunders have caused misery to millions of people, and it is the Government’s disastrous handling of the franchise that led to industrial action on the line.

--- Later in debate ---

[Chris Grayling]

The hon. Gentleman has not understood the finances of the rail industry. The money that the taxpayer receives from the operating profit—the taxpayer receives the lion’s share—will continue to flow into the public coffers whatever happens. The contract that was let between Virgin-Stagecoach and the Government will be fully enforced—I repeat, it will be fully enforced—and I make the absolute commitment to the House that that will happen.

I will now make further progress. We have heard this afternoon, more explicitly than we have previously heard it, that the Opposition’s policy is to return to the days of British Rail. There is somehow the idea that this will bring nirvana, but it actually only takes a moment’s thought to realise how flawed their thinking is, assuming they have done any the first place.

Our network suffers from three main problems. First, the infrastructure, which is already run in the public sector—Labour Members forget that—is often old and unreliable. About two thirds of the problems on our rail network result from issues with the publicly run infrastructure. This is not about who runs it and who owns it, but about investment in the infrastructure. That is why I am pleased to have just announced a further £20 billion renewal programme for infrastructure—concentrating on replacing older points, signals and the rest, and upgrading systems—so that we have a more reliable railway. That is the first problem, and the first solution.

The second issue is that the system is heavily congested. It would not matter who was running the railway, because routes into places such as London Waterloo or Manchester Piccadilly would still be full. What those stations and routes need is longer trains, and that is why the private sector, supported by the Government, is now investing in longer trains all around the country—in Manchester, all around London, in the west country and in the west midlands. That is the next priority. Probably the biggest renewal of rolling stock in modern times is taking place at the moment, and it is certainly by far the biggest in Europe. That is what is necessary. Someone on an eight-coach train that is full in the morning needs a 10-coach train, and that is what we are delivering. It is also why we are expanding capacity routes such as Thameslink, which will make a huge difference through central London, and why we have opened the Ordsall Chord in Manchester, which will provide linkage across the city and create extra capacity on trans-Pennine routes.

Thirdly, the system is organisationally too fragmented—too many people debating with each other, rather than solving problems for passengers—which is why our strategy is to bring back together the day-to-day operation of the track and the trains. Those are the three challenges facing the network today, and they are why passengers are often frustrated. We are working to address those problems with solutions and investment. That is the right strategy for the rail network, and shifting around the organisation, renationalisation and the rest of it will not solve those problems. Let us concentrate on the things that will make the difference for passengers, not on moving the deckchairs, as Labour Members seem to want to do.

[Jonathan Edwards]

Will the Secretary of State update the House on his discussions with the Welsh Government about devolving responsibility for the franchise in Wales? We are halfway through the bidding process, which the Welsh Government are conducting, yet powers over the franchise remain in Westminster, despite the British Government’s promises to hand them over.

[Chris Grayling]

That is simply untrue. The re-letting of the Wales and the borders franchise is being handled entirely by the Welsh Government. The interesting question is whether they are actually going to be able to deliver on their promises to electrify the Cardiff valley lines, the infrastructure of which I have given them as well. They have been given the opportunity to create an integrated metro railway for Cardiff, and I will be interested to see whether they can deliver what they have promised. They have control over the Wales and the borders franchise. The only power I have retained is to make sure that we look after the interests of people on the English side of the border. I am afraid the hon. Gentleman is just not right.

Wales and Borders Franchise

Jonathan Edwards Excerpts

Tuesday 7th November 2017 Westminster Hall

[Jonathan Edwards (Carmarthen East and Dinefwr) (PC)]

I beg to move,

That this House has considered the devolution of the Wales and Borders franchise.

It is an honour to serve under your chairmanship, Ms Dorries, for what I believe is the first time.

The comedy of holding a debate on the delayed devolution of the Wales and Borders rail franchise will not be lost on the thousands of passengers who rely on the consistently tardy rail operator in Wales. In reality, however, it is no laughing matter. It is a tale of how an uncaring Westminster and incompetent Welsh Government have already cost taxpayers millions of pounds and could derail the whole franchise procurement process.

My speech will have three central elements. First, I will outline the development of a distinct Welsh rail franchise. Secondly, I will trace in, I hope, forensic detail how we got into the current mess. Finally, I will seek clarity on the next steps for the franchise and what passengers can expect.

Let me begin by setting the scene. Until the current franchise started in 2002, Wales was covered by myriad different operators. One franchise covered south Wales and south-west England, while mid-Wales and north Wales were linked to larger franchises based in Birmingham and Manchester respectively. Three inter-city franchises also served Wales.

Despite rejecting the idea of devolving the franchise, the British Labour Government did recognise that the Welsh rail network should form one unified system. The 2002-03 franchise competition was managed by the UK Government and the now defunct Strategic Rail Authority. In 2002 the British Labour Government awarded the first Wales and Borders franchise to the German state-owned train operator Arriva, and for the last 15 years we have been stuck with a service unfit for purpose. The Arriva Trains Wales-run Wales and Borders franchise has been dubbed the “no growth” deal. In effect, the poorly procured franchise failed to account for any growth in passengers. It was a franchise procured on the cheap and fundamentally not fit for purpose.

As would have been obvious to anyone with the semblance of an understanding of transport policy, passenger numbers continued to grow, and in the desperate scramble to keep up with the growth, money meant for devolved services was ploughed into the franchise. Sprinter units from the 1980s were bought using the Welsh block grant as a substitute for the increased UK Government subsidy that Arriva had originally envisaged. In fact, passenger numbers continued to grow, with overcrowding becoming “a daily struggle”, according to Transport Focus. In the last four years, 250,000 extra commuters have been using rail services in south Wales alone.

The 2002 franchise agreement is widely seen as one of the worst and most unimaginative since privatisation of the railways. It is unsurprising, therefore, that support for devolution of the franchise is overwhelming. The 15 years of chaos on Welsh railways lies at the door of the Department for Transport, and if something is not done soon, the next 15 years could be the same.

[Liz Saville Roberts (Dwyfor Meirionnydd) (PC)]

Does my hon. Friend agree that the previous franchise emphasised punctuality above all else in terms of success, and that for the next franchise to be a success, it must also include customer satisfaction in its criteria?

[Jonathan Edwards]

I am grateful for that intervention. My hon. Friend, who is the parliamentary leader of our party, serves on the Select Committee on Welsh Affairs, which has done very detailed work on this issue and specifically on the initial franchise procurement. The Committee, which consists of members from across the House, was especially damning of how that franchise was constructed.

Let us fast forward to 2015, when the story of this not-so-great train robbery steps up a gear. The then Prime Minister, David Cameron, and his deputy, Nick Clegg, graced Wales with their presence to announce a new devolution deal. As part of the so-called St David’s day agreement, we were told that powers over the procurement of the next rail franchise would be devolved. The cheers at our national stadium, where they made the announcement, were reminiscent of those at a Six Nations match. Finally, we thought, Wales would get the power to create a rail system fit for our people. Sadly, as is often the case, that optimism was misplaced.

In the next section of my speech, I will try to piece together what is a complex picture of confusion, chaos and ineptitude by Governments at both ends of the M4. As is often the case with such matters, each individual element of the story seems unremarkable—inconsequential even. However, in the round, we see an intriguing episode of incompetence, which has already cost millions of pounds and could mean chaos for rail users in Wales.

The story starts just over a year ago, in September 2016. Combing through what was then the Wales Bill—it is now the Wales Act 2017— I spotted what I assumed was an error. Despite the Government’s boy scout promises, devolution of the franchise was not included in the Bill. Being the assiduous and diligent parliamentarian that I am, I decided to flag up that omission to the Secretary of State for Wales. Following the appropriate procedures, I tabled an amendment to the Bill that would devolve the franchise. On 12 September, in a Report Stage debate on the Wales Bill, I sought the Minister’s assurance that the error would be rectified. I said:

“Before I get into my speech, may I say that I will gladly not say a word”—

regarding devolution of the franchise—

“if the Secretary of State or the Minister intervenes to say that they will proceed with that promise and if they outline the legislative vehicle whereby these powers will be devolved to Wales?”

The Secretary of State replied:

“We are negotiating with the Welsh Government over the use of a transfer of functions order under the 2006 Act.”—[Official Report, 12 September 2016; Vol. 614, c. 671.]

The more naive may have thought that that was job done, but as a veteran of many a Wales Bill, I know that devolving powers is not such a simple task, so we continued to push. During the Welsh Affairs Committee inquiry into procurement of the next Wales and Borders franchise, my hon. Friend the Member for Dwyfor Meirionnydd (Liz Saville Roberts) repeatedly asked how the Welsh rail responsibilities would be devolved. Every time she asked the question, whether to a UK or Welsh Government representative, she met with the same complacent response, “It’s just a technical thing; it will all get sorted,” yet everything seemed not to add up. Why wait to devolve the franchise if we could already do so? Why risk waiting? Why circumvent parliamentary scrutiny? Why be so complacent about the powers required for a multibillion-pound contract? Was the reason ignorance, incompetence or something more sinister?

Thanks to my hon. Friend’s excellent work, people will find on page 13 of the report two recommendations calling on the UK and Welsh Governments to update the Committee on the progress of the talks on the transfer of functions and to ensure that there is effective scrutiny of the transfer of functions and the way in which the Governments have agreed to devolve the powers. Of course, neither of those recommendations has been followed.

On 13 October 2016, despite still not having any powers actually to procure the franchise, the Welsh Government announced four shortlisted operators for it: KeolisAmey, a joint venture between French transport giant Keolis and public service provider Amey; MTR Corporation, which has interests globally from Australia to Sweden and is based in Hong Kong; Abellio Group, which operates bus and rail networks across Europe and is the international arm of the Dutch national rail operator; and the existing German state-owned operator Arriva. Those were the only four to enter a bid to run the next franchise.

According to the original plan, the four bids would be assessed by Transport for Wales, a Welsh Government-owned company. Through a process of “competitive dialogue”, the four bidders would work to create one of the most ambitious franchises ever, with the south Wales metro and the rest of the Welsh network covered by a single operator.

[Albert Owen (Ynys Môn) (Lab)]

I am listening carefully to what the hon. Gentleman is saying. He referred to the 2016 Bill. He will remember that both he and I supported amendments for a not-for-profit franchise. Does he believe that that is now possible? In 2017, both his party and mine, in our manifestos, asked for that. The Conservatives were soundly beaten in Wales, so they should not pursue this. There should be secondary legislation to add that to the Bill, so that Wales can have a fall-back situation.

[Jonathan Edwards]

As ever, the hon. Gentleman speaks with great experience and makes a very valid point. With the two major parties supporting such a policy, it is clearly the will of the National Assembly. I am not sure whether that is the reason why the UK Government are delaying the transfer of functions. Is ideology driving what we are seeing at the moment?

Let me reiterate that on 13 October 2016, when the shortlist was announced, the Welsh Government had no authority to procure a Welsh rail franchise. That still remained in the gift of the Department for Transport and the Minister. Now let me pull focus back to Westminster for a moment. On 6 December 2016, I asked, in Transport questions,

“now that the UK Government are devolving responsibilities for the Welsh franchise to Wales, is it not logical to devolve responsibility for the Welsh network?”

The Secretary of State’s response was dumbfounding. He said that

“we are not devolving responsibility for the whole Welsh franchise as he describes; we are doing so in part. I have said to the Welsh Government that I am happy with their taking control of the Welsh valleys lines, with a view to developing the metro system that they hope to put into service, but the Welsh franchise is not purely Welsh; it runs through large parts of England as well. We cannot have a situation where we, the Government in Westminster, give up control over services in England to the Welsh Government without checks and balances. That is not going to happen.”—[Official Report, 6 December 2016; Vol. 618, c. 128.]

Whether it was ignorance or incompetence, the UK Government and the Welsh Government were saying and doing diametrically opposed things. In fact, the UK Government, in the form of the DFT, and another bit of the UK Government, the Wales Office, were saying and doing diametrically opposed things. The Transport Secretary’s response set alarm bells ringing in Cardiff. As a result, later that day, Plaid Cymru forced an urgent question in the National Assembly. On 6 December, the very same day, the Welsh Government Cabinet Secretary responsible for railways, Ken Skates, assured the Senedd that everything was on track. He said that the Welsh Government

“have agreed with the UK Government that all services operated under the current Wales and Borders franchise will be included in the next Wales and Borders franchise and that we”—

the Welsh Government—

“will lead in the procurement of these services.”

Mr Skates’ response clearly stated that the Welsh Government continued to believe that responsibility for the procurement and management of the whole of the next Wales and Borders franchise, which covers all of the existing routes, will be devolved in time.

It is clear that the Wales and UK Governments have a fundamental difference of understanding. I wrote to the Secretary of State to notify him of this confusion and continued to raise the issue in Westminster, and my colleagues did the same in Cardiff Bay, in the hope of shunting them along the track, but still there is nothing: no clear plan, no public timetable, no parliamentary scrutiny of how the devolution of rail was—or more correctly, was not—happening.

It was only a few months before the snap election. Over this period we continued to raise concerns regarding the devolution of the franchise with questions in the National Assembly. From our conversation with industry we knew that deadlines were drawing closer. On my return to Parliament, I therefore tabled written question 3534, seeking clarity on when the devolution of powers over the rail franchise will take place. This clearly acted as a catalyst, as a few days later, on Sunday 13 July, Pandora’s box was opened. The UK Government confirmed that the necessary transfer of functions will not take place until autumn 2017. This meant the 18 August date set for the official tender submissions would be missed. However, the Department for Transport said that all would be resolved by moving that date to 26 September. What transpired, however, was hardly a simple procedural matter. An exchange between the Secretary of State and the Cabinet Secretary in the Welsh Government came to light, which showed a plethora of unresolved issues, including disputes over the ownership of the valleys lines infrastructure and how the Welsh Government will exercise powers over English railway stations served by the Wales and Borders franchise.

Most startling, however, was a £1 billion dispute over funding. A rebate, which is linked to track charges, is passed to Network Rail via a grant for improving railways. For the Wales routes, that amounts to £1 billion over the 15-year span of the contract. Due to a catastrophic breakdown in communication, the Welsh Government had been procuring the franchise in the belief that this was there to be used as they wish, but the Department for Transport believed that as the Welsh Government had no responsibility for the actual rail infrastructure, this money should remain in Whitehall. You could not make it up, Madame Chair, but what does all that mean for Welsh passengers?

According to Welsh Government, the delay in procuring the franchise in August cost around £3.5 million. Further delays could cost tens of millions of pounds and put the whole procurement process at risk. Surely that was all resolved by the time we got to the later September deadline I referred to earlier. Not this time. In a committee meeting with the Cabinet Secretary and his officials at the National Assembly for Wales on 27 September, it was confirmed that powers necessary to decide who runs most of Wales’ rail services may not be given to Wales until 2018. In fact, the official tender published the same day was made by the Department for Transport and not by the Welsh Government.

I appreciate that this is a long and complex narrative, but only a few twists in the track remain. Eight days ago the latest bombshell dropped: Arriva, the current franchisee, pulled its bid. Few tears will be shed at this revelation. Some commuters might even rejoice at the news, but it speaks to a deeper problem with the handling of the procurement process. The only reasonable conclusion is that Arriva’s decision to pull its bid to run the next Welsh rail franchise is largely due to the whole bungled process. Rumours are circulating that other companies are also teetering on the brink of pulling out of the franchise bid. To be fair, who can blame them? They do not know who they should be dealing with, the timetable of the process and, to put it frankly, whether this franchise will even go ahead.

In this final part of my speech, I want to understand what the next steps might be and seek clarity for commuters, train companies and perhaps even for Labour Ministers back home, as they seem incapable of getting these answers from the Department for Transport themselves. Devolution of the franchise was first on the list of hurdles in the Welsh Assembly Infrastructure Committee’s June report. Let us be frank: we are approaching a situation where the whole thing could collapse. I do not want to see that and I am sure the Minister does not want to either. I hope in his response he will be able to offer assurances that the powers will be devolved in the coming days, but contingencies must be made clear. Can the Minister confirm whether there has been any exploration of an interim arrangement with the existing operator to continue running their franchise under a direct award or—as is written into this franchise contract—there is an extension of seven “reporting periods” at the end of the franchise, which could take the existing franchise into spring 2019?

The option which I prefer, and I am sure the hon. Member for Ynys Môn (Albert Owen) would prefer, and which has always been the policy of my party, is a truly nationalised rail operator. Under the Railways Act 1993, it falls on the relevant authority to run franchises where there is no franchise agreement in place. These are known as the operator of last resort powers. The botched devolution job means there is no clarity on who exactly the relevant authority is in this case. Can the Minister confirm whether he understands the Welsh Government or Westminster to be the relevant authority?

On a more general point, my speech has been peppered with technicalities, dates and jargon, but the events surrounding the devolution of the franchise are symbolic of a wider and more fundamental symptom suffered by my country. Westminster does not care about Wales and a lethargic Labour party passively watches our managed decline. The examples can be technical, but the effects are tangible. Our society suffers at the hands of an apathetic Westminster and an inert Labour Welsh Government. The handling of the devolution of the franchise is yet again a reason for Wales to wonder why Westminster clings so tightly to our reins, when all we want is the ability to stand on our own two feet. Diolch yn fawr.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Transport (Paul Maynard)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Ms Dorries. I congratulate the hon. Member for Carmarthen East and Dinefwr (Jonathan Edwards) on securing this debate. He has taken a long-term interest in this issue, as indeed have the hon. Members for Dwyfor Meirionnydd (Liz Saville Roberts) and for Ynys Môn (Albert Owen). I hope that I can provide some reassurance. I realise it is tempting to provide a running commentary on these issues, particularly when one is not involved in the negotiations, but I hope that I can set the mind of the hon. Member for Carmarthen East and Dinefwr at rest. He has asked many questions on the issue, both of me and in the House more generally, so I know he is very knowledgeable on these matters.

I start by reassuring the hon. Gentleman that we are committed to devolving rail powers to the Welsh Government, as we stated in 2014. The devolution of these powers takes forward one of the Silk commission’s recommendations and is an important part of the St David’s day Command Paper that he referred to. Like him, I want improved rail services for passengers in Wales. I always focus on the output for the customer, not just the input into the train set.

Last month, we saw the launch of the invitation to tender for the next Wales and Borders franchise. I agree with the hon. Gentleman’s comments about the previous franchise. It was a very good example of some of the flaws of the earlier franchising models, and one that we hope to learn from in setting out what we aim to do with this franchise. I am sure he will recognise that it is one key milestone among many on the journey towards a new franchise.

It may help if I set out the other milestones that we seek to achieve. First and foremost, we hope that bidders will respond by 21 December this year to the ITT. The evaluation will take place over January and February, and between March and June 2018 there will be a contract award by the Welsh Government, signed on 13 June 2018, we hope, with a new franchise commencement date of 18 October 2018.

We have a clear set of timelines ahead that we are looking to achieve. I remain committed to supporting the Welsh Government in progressing with the procurement of the next Wales and Borders franchise to make sure that it does indeed commence in October 2018. I also repeat our commitment to progressing with the procurement of an infrastructure provider for the south Wales metro. I am sure that the hon. Gentleman would agree that devolution cannot be a simple task, and it is worth reminding ourselves of what the Government are actually doing. We have seen tireless work by officials, both here and in Cardiff, to give effect to the formal transfer of powers, which had required the resolution of a number of very detailed policy and practical considerations, particularly around cross-border services, but I am pleased that we have been able to agree the broad principles under which that devolution should happen. This will see Welsh Ministers’ statutory powers in Wales supplemented by powers exercised on behalf of the Secretary of State.

These proposed arrangements will, for the first time, enable Welsh Ministers to procure a franchise that, like the current one, includes important cross-border services to and from parts of England, as well as services entirely within Wales. I am sure the hon. Member for Carmarthen East and Dinefwr will agree that it is in Wales’ economic interests to have a strong set of cross-border connectivity, not least to Manchester airport to the north of Wales, and to London along the Great Western main line to the south of Wales.

Both the hon. Gentleman and the hon. Member for Ynys Môn raised the point about not-for-profit services. As they will understand, because this franchise involves cross-border services, the nature of the contracting vehicle cannot be a decision solely for the Welsh Government. That is why a not-for-profit solution, tempting though it may be to hon. Members, is not necessarily appropriate in this case.

[Jonathan Edwards]

Will the Minister give way?

[Paul Maynard]

I will give way just once, but I am keen to make sure that I answer the hon. Gentleman’s questions.

[Jonathan Edwards]

I am grateful to the Minister for giving way. Can he explain why, if it is indeed his Government’s intention to improve the transport links between Wales and England, they have taken the treacherous decision to cancel the electrification of the main line all the way to Swansea?

[Paul Maynard]

The hon. Gentleman is almost tempting me to give another 10 minute speech on how to improve rail services for passengers. I am afraid, as ever, that he falls into the trap of focusing on how we power the trains, and not the benefits for the passengers. As he will be aware, if the 40 miles from Cardiff to Swansea were to be electrified, that would have a cost-benefit ratio of less than 0.3, with no added benefits for passengers—not a single extra seat, mile per hour of the train, or minute off the journey time. As he will also be aware, the National Audit Office and the Public Accounts Committee have been clear that the Department needs to consider each electrification project in isolation to ensure that it still represents good value for money.

It is my duty as Rail Minister to focus on how to deliver the benefits for passengers in south Wales, including in his constituency, and to bring those benefits forward as soon as possible. That is what we are doing with the Intercity Express Programme trains that are already in operation. When electrification to Cardiff is complete, that will save 15 minutes on the existing journey time. Electrifying further to Swansea would not reduce that journey time by a single minute; nor would it add a single seat to any one of those journeys.

--- Later in debate ---

[Jonathan Edwards]

I thank the Minister for his comments. There was one area of concern in his comments: he said that the franchise would be devolved but under the supervision of the Department for Transport. That indicates to me that there would be a Westminster veto over the actions of Welsh Ministers. I am sure that that would be an area of high contention back home in the motherland.

Question put and agreed to.

Automated and Electric Vehicles Bill

Jonathan Edwards Excerpts

2nd reading: House of Commons & Ways and Means resolution: House of Commons
Monday 23rd October 2017 Commons Chamber

[Mr Hayes]

The aim of the Bill is to create the greater certainty that is, as several Members have said, necessary for further developments. As I will explain in a moment, when I get to the main thrust of my contribution, we focused mainly on insurance. That is because we were told by the insurance industry that it was essential to establish absolute clarity about the framework for the development of a series of insurance products. The Bill sets out that framework. Those who recall the previous discussions on the matter, and who have studied the record, will know that the insurance industry has widely welcomed our endeavours in that respect. I have the Hansard here, but I would tire the House unduly if I merely read out that which Members already know. In essence, the Bill creates greater certainty about the development of insurance products, to put at rest any doubts that might have prevailed.

[Jonathan Edwards (Carmarthen East and Dinefwr) (PC)]

What discussions has the Minister had with the insurance industry about the likely cost of premiums? If one of the main benefits of automated vehicles is increased safety, does he expect premiums to fall?

[Mr Hayes]

We explored that a bit with the industry in the witness sessions on the previous Bill. As Members know, we introduced the Bill and we gave it a Second Reading and a Committee stage—a very good one, actually—as part of which we took evidence from the insurance industry. The Bill that we are considering is very similar to the previous one, which, as a result of the general election, did not proceed.

My guess is that initially, as the marketplace develops and new products emerge, prices will be much as they are now; but that as the record becomes established and insurers’ calculations about the likelihood of claims are affected by the greater safety provided by autonomous vehicles, prices may well fall. That is, in the end, a matter for insurers. It is not something that the Government can stipulate, dictate or even, with any certainty, predict. Following on from the intervention by the hon. Member for Eltham (Clive Efford), it seems to me that if the safety of autonomous vehicles means fewer accidents, insurers will find that out. As they do so, the ability to insure a vehicle will grow and the price of doing so will fall. That is, as I say, a matter for the future and not for now.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Hayes]

Retrofitting is an important way in which we can improve the existing fleet of vehicles. As my hon. Friend will know, some of the money that is being invested in low emission vehicles is going towards changing the existing fleet, so she is right about that.

I thought of Disraeli as my hon. Friend rose, as I am sure did she. Disraeli said:

“Man is not the creature of circumstances. Circumstances are the creatures of men. We are free agents, and man is more powerful than matter.”

What we do in the future about these things is in our hands. It is in the hands of Governments and Parliament. We can create the kind of future we want and, in embracing this technology, ensure that it is harnessed to best effect. As I have said, not all technological change is implicitly virtuous, so people must not assume that all technological development is, by its nature, efficacious. It has no intrinsic moral aspect. It is for us to decide how the best outcome can be achieved through the kind of technological changes we are considering tonight. That will be done across the House, I know, by people of good will.

We need also to think about what workplaces can do. I want to help workplaces to provide charging facilities for fleets and employees’ cars. I want to ensure that vehicle charging is flexible to meet the demands of the grid and avoid extreme peaks in demand. It is in everyone’s interest to make the running of an electric vehicle as easy as possible and to get more of them on our roads as quickly as possible. In that vein, the Government will be—

[Jonathan Edwards]

Will the right hon. Gentleman give way?

[Mr Hayes]

I just want to make this point, because I am building up to an exciting part of my speech. That may not have been evident, but it will be in a moment.

In that vein, the Department will be seeking the views of the public on the design of the charging infrastructure. I promised previously a public consultation—indeed, a competition—to develop a charging infrastructure that is instantly recognisable. It seems to me absolutely right that when one drives down a street, one should be able to spot an electric charging point rather as one can spot a pillar box or Belisha beacon. It would be appropriate—although I leave this for others to decide—if my name were associated with such a thing. The shadow Secretary of State has suggested it should and I will take that as a proposal, but it is for the House to consider whether it agrees with that proposal and to make a decision on the exact nature of the name. Something alliterative and memorable might suit.

We certainly need to think about consistency with regard to charging points. People need to know where they are. We have electric vehicle charging points outside the Department for Transport, but I am not sure that anyone could spot them driving down Horseferry Road unless they knew that they were there and were familiar with what an electric charging point looked like. They do not stand out and perhaps they should.