Northern Ireland Veterans: Prosecution

John Lamont Excerpts

Monday 14th July 2025 Westminster Hall

[John Lamont (Berwickshire, Roxburgh and Selkirk) (Con)]

I beg to move,

That this House has considered e-petition 725716 relating to the prosecution of Northern Ireland veterans.

It is a pleasure to serve with you in the Chair, Mr Mundell. As a member of the Petitions Committee, I am pleased to fulfil my duty in opening today’s debate and presenting this petition, which has been signed by more than 170,000 people.

I thank the petition’s creator, Ian Liles, who joins us in the Public Gallery today. Ian spent 36 years in the Army, including 13 years in Northern Ireland. I know that Members will thank him, and all the veterans in the Gallery and those watching across the country, for their service.

The petition states:

“We think that the Government should not make any changes to legislation that would allow Northern Ireland Veterans to be prosecuted for doing their duty in combating terrorism as part of ‘Operation Banner’.”

The role that British soldiers play in keeping our country safe cannot be overstated. They put their lives on the line to defend our country, and they put themselves in harm’s way to do so. But there is a shadow that hangs over our armed forces today—a political and legal attack that is targeting veterans of Northern Ireland who served under Operation Banner.

In recent weeks, I have had the privilege of speaking to organisations and campaigners across communities in Northern Ireland. I have also heard from many of my constituents in the Scottish Borders who feel passionately about the need to protect our veterans from prosecution. I thank hon. and right hon. Members across this House for their advice and guidance in preparing for today’s debate. I pay tribute to the tireless campaigning of my right hon. Friend the Member for Goole and Pocklington (David Davis), who raised this issue at Prime Minister’s questions last week, as well as the Minister for Veterans in the last Government, Johnny Mercer, for his work to protect and defend Northern Ireland veterans during his time around the Cabinet table.

This Labour Government have taken the decision to repeal the Northern Ireland (Legacy and Reconciliation) Act 2023. I believe that decision will shame our country for decades to come. Operation Banner took place between 1969 and 2007. It was a name given to the operations by British forces in Northern Ireland to stop IRA attacks, spanning Labour and Conservative Governments and seven Prime Ministers. The previous Conservative Government introduced the legacy Act, which was designed to end the shameful spectacle of British veterans being dragged through the courts for actions taken decades ago, when they were simply following the orders of the Government of the day.

[Richard Foord (Honiton and Sidmouth) (LD)]

Military personnel have a term for passing the buck: sloping shoulders. Is the hon. Gentleman concerned that, with the measures we are discussing, the state risks sloping shoulders on to personnel who swore an oath of allegiance?

[John Lamont]

The hon. Member makes an excellent point, which I will consider more fully later.

In 1998, as the then Prime Minister Tony Blair approached the end of his negotiations on the Good Friday agreement, one final demand was made. Gerry Adams and Martin McGuinness said that they could not go ahead with the deal—they were fearful of community pushback and wanted to give terrorists amnesty from prosecution. So a deal was done. On-the-run letters were given to suspected IRA terrorists, telling them that they were no longer wanted. The letters gave protection to terrorists, but nothing was offered to the soldiers who served in Northern Ireland.

The years that followed saw historical cases, which were investigated at the time, being re-examined. Veterans were dragged to court on politically motivated charges—a witch hunt—and that is why we needed the legacy Act. The Secretary of State and this Labour Government now want to repeal the protection afforded to soldiers as a result of that legislation. We are told that will be achieved by removing parts of the legacy Act via a remedial order, and that the Government will later introduce new primary legislation.

The Prime Minister’s Northern Ireland veterans tsar has said that this immoral “two-tier justice” will lead to “vexatious lawfare” against former soldiers. It sets a dangerous historical precedent. Are we now saying that if the Government send our troops into conflict, soldiers could be held to account in years to come for following the instructions given to them by this Government? If that is the case, why would anybody choose to serve our country? That is the reality facing many of our Northern Ireland veterans today. During my preparations for this debate, I spoke to one group who said that, should the legacy Act be revoked, the number of veterans prosecuted would be only in the low single figures, but that is still too many. It fails to recognise the worry and anxiety that it will cause our veterans, many of whom are in old age, and their families.

Let me be clear: if soldiers went out with murderous intent, they should be held to account. The rule of law should apply to those soldiers as it applies to the rest of us. However, the petition creator told me that he knows of no soldier who went out deliberately to murder. It is also important to remember that, when someone was killed during the troubles, it was investigated—sometimes three times, by the Director of Public Prosecutions, the police and the coroner’s court.

[Danny Kruger (East Wiltshire) (Con)]

My hon. Friend is making a powerful speech, and I am grateful to him. Last week, I met a number of veterans of the Northern Ireland troubles in my constituency, and they made the exact point that he is making: they never went out to kill; they went out to defend British citizens. Is it not particularly outrageous that the proposal suggests some sort of equivalence between the killers and those who were appointed to protect? As he says, it will impose a terrible chilling effect on recruitment to our services.

[John Lamont]

My hon. Friend makes an excellent point. There is no equivalence between a terrorist—somebody who sets out in the morning with murderous intent—and a soldier who is defending democracy and our country. Sadly, we seem to be creating some sort of equivalence, which should not be allowed to happen.

Dennis Hutchings was a former member of the Life Guards Regiment. He was a terminally ill, 80-year-old veteran who was dragged to Northern Ireland during the pandemic in 2021. He died of covid just three days into his court case. Dennis was hounded for several years—told he was cleared, and then not—and then forced to fly to Belfast to stand trial. There was no new compelling evidence, and it was simply not in the public interest. It was a barbaric way to treat an elderly man who had served our country. His lawyer said that the case contributed to his death, and that it was likely that he would not have died at that point if he had not been forced to go to Northern Ireland to stand trial for an incident that occurred in 1974.

It is all too easy for us to sit here, look at the evidence and try to justify why a trial is in the public interest, but doing so fails to recognise the instant, life-or-death decisions that these soldiers in Northern Ireland had to take every single day. It is a rewriting of history. Decades on, people sit and judge events in retrospect, with little new evidence, and come to conclusions entirely at odds with the legal investigations at the time. The Government cannot and must not lose sight of their moral responsibility and commitment to our veterans, and to the armed forces covenant.

[Douglas McAllister (West Dunbartonshire) (Lab)]

Can the hon. Member confirm that the unlawful nature of the legacy Act meant that investigations into the deaths of more than 200 Operation Banner soldiers were shut down, against the wishes of soldiers’ families?

--- Later in debate ---

[John Lamont]

The hon. Member makes an important point about the supposed unlawful nature of the Act. I do not accept that it is unlawful. Yes, the court said that, but it is up to this Government to appeal. The question is why they dropped that appeal. There is a winnable case to be made, on behalf of the British nation, to uphold the legacy Act and defend our veterans. By not doing so, the Government are letting down our veterans.

The Government must not lose sight of their moral responsibility and commitment to our veterans, and to the armed forces covenant. That responsibility is just as important for veterans who served decades ago in Northern Ireland as it is for former and current service personnel who served in more recent conflicts.

[Sir Desmond Swayne (New Forest West) (Con)]

When Jack Straw introduced the Bill that became the Human Rights Act 1998, he made it clear from the Dispatch Box, in terms, that Parliament was not under any obligation, in any way, to introduce a remedial order after a declaration of incompatibility by a court. There is no need to win another court case. Parliament is supreme. The Act stands.

[John Lamont]

My right hon. Friend makes an excellent point, and he highlights the grave concerns that many of us have about how human rights legislation is being applied in ways that were not intended, and that undermine and attack the sovereignty of this place.

[Helen Maguire (Epsom and Ewell) (LD)]

Most who served in Northern Ireland did so with absolute honour, including many of my former colleagues. It is precisely because of that record that they deserve a system based on truth, not a blanket immunity that casts a shadow over everyone’s service. Does the hon. Member therefore agree that equal application of the rule of law is in the interests of both veterans and serving personnel?

[John Lamont]

The rule of law absolutely needs to be applied equally, which is why I said earlier that those soldiers who are found to have set out with the wrong intention should be held to account, but there is no equivalence between the actions of a terrorist and the actions of British soldiers acting to defend democracy and all the communities in Northern Ireland.

I will now talk about what soldiers serving in Northern Ireland did to ensure that they were doing everything required. Soldiers serving in Northern Ireland followed the yellow card—the rules of engagement for when they could open fire—which was approved at Cabinet level. They were given orders by the Government of the day, and they followed those orders.

The Government have said that they want to repeal sections of the Northern Ireland legacy Act, and that decision will have two major ramifications. First, it will remove key parts of the legacy Act designed to protect Operation Banner veterans from endless pursuit in the courts. That raises deep concern and anger for those who signed the petition, for many across the House and for organisations such as the Royal British Legion, which has expressed its concern about the impact on veterans.

Secondly, it will permit Gerry Adams and former terrorists to sue the Government, and effectively British taxpayers, for potentially hundreds of millions of pounds. Should the remedial order be endorsed by Parliament, it could result in a six-figure payout to Mr Adams, simply because his interim custody order was considered not by the Secretary of State but by a junior Minister. That is simply outrageous.

We have seen many examples of two-tier justice since the Labour Government came to power, but that may be the worst of all. Are the Government really contemplating creating a system to drag Northern Ireland veterans through the courts, while potentially paying millions to terrorists? How do those on the Government Benches expect to go back to their constituencies and explain why they have just voted for the prosecution of veterans while allowing terrorists to sue the taxpayer? They know that is not right.

We should also be clear about the differences between the actions of soldiers and terrorists. When terrorists get up in the morning, they go out with murderous intent: to use violence to attack our democracy. Soldiers do not: they put themselves in harm’s way to keep people safe and to protect our nation. The difference is the intent. Soldiers serving our country are not lawyers sat behind a desk, able to gather a team and spend days deciding whether to act or not. They do their job in high-pressure, dangerous environments, and must take instant decisions to protect themselves. It is what we train them to do.

The legacy Act is by no means perfect, but it is better than the disgraceful spectacle of veterans being dragged through the courts. Doing so is not sustainable legally or morally. The alternative is constant legal battles, civil claims that go on indefinitely and the erosion of public trust in both justice and Government. Veterans who served in Northern Ireland have been through thorough, intense and extensive scrutiny already. What the Government plan to do to the legacy Act undermines the peace process that our veterans fought so hard to achieve.

[Olly Glover (Didcot and Wantage) (LD)]

I join the hon. Member in paying tribute to our armed forces. He has made some very good points, but does he not accept that the Act that he is defending, and that the Government are committed to repealing, has been opposed by all major political parties in Northern Ireland? Is it not important, when paying tribute to and protecting our armed forces, that the solution has the consent of the people and politicians of Northern Ireland?

[John Lamont]

I accept that in Northern Ireland the political reaction to the legacy Act is mixed, but it was the decision of this Parliament to enact the Act. The reaction of veterans groups, many of whom are in the room with us today, has been almost universal in its condemnation of the Government’s decision to try to repeal key parts of that Act. I am in no doubt whose side I am on: I am standing with the veterans who fought so hard to achieve peace and defend our country.

Today’s debate is hugely important. I am pleased to see the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland here to listen to the concerns of the petitioner, and those of myself and I am sure many other colleagues. But we need answers from the Secretary of State, not least on when the remedial order will be debated and voted on. What other primary legislation do the Government intend to bring forward, and what is the timescale for doing so? Lastly, will the Government commit to ensuring that soldiers who were subject to reviews at the time will not be subject to further risk of prosecution under the new legislation?

There are nearly 2 million veterans across our country. The sad truth is that many feel that their service is no longer respected. The Prime Minister and the Secretary of State have spoken about the need to support our armed forces. If that is the case, it is a completely hypocritical decision to allow prosecutions even to be contemplated.

[Esther McVey (Tatton) (Con)]

Does my hon. Friend agree it is time that the hand-picked Attorney General, Lord Hermer, from whom the Prime Minister is taking legal advice on repealing the Act, should be sacked, taking his unpatriotic views with him? We all need to stand by our veterans.

[John Lamont]

As ever, my right hon. Friend makes an excellent point. She is absolutely right that we should be with our veterans 100%, which is what I am hopefully doing during this speech.

Veterans are only demanding protection for following orders from high command and from vexatious, politically charged lawsuits. The Government’s position is destroying morale in the armed forces and is deeply unjust to veterans. The Government of the day, whatever Government that may be, must have the backs of our soldiers. They are extraordinary men and women who keep us safe and who go on difficult missions in dangerous and challenging places. They must be backed from cradle to grave. They protected our society, our freedom and justice in Northern Ireland. Surely, we owe them their own freedom in return.

[Several hon. Members rose—]