“Get Britain Working” White Paper

John Glen Excerpts

Tuesday 26th November 2024 Commons Chamber

[Liz Kendall]

The Government believe that disabled people have the same rights as everybody else, including the right to work. Our mission is to break down the barriers. Many disabled people would want to work if they could get the right help and support and a job that fits their needs and concerns, with greater flexibility. This is a really important challenge. I do not blame disabled people for often being frightened and worried when they hear about these discussions after what happened over the past 14 years, but we will work with disabled people and the organisations that represent them to get the world of work and the employment support system right and get a better-functioning system of disability benefits. This is a really big challenge for our country, but with these proposals we are taking an important step forward.

[John Glen (Salisbury) (Con)]

I welcome the Secretary of State’s ambition in many of the areas she has set out, and particularly the “Geep Britain Working” initiative. As a Parliament, we must come to terms with the obesity and mental health crises, so I welcome what she is doing with the Secretary of State for Health.

May I bring to the Secretary of State’s attention the work of South Wilts Mencap? I recently met Robin Clifford, and over 14 years I have seen the work that that group of trustees does with the adult learning disabled, a particular and special group of individuals in my constituency. I would welcome the opportunity to meet the Minister for Social Security and Disability to look at programmes that could be started or pilots that could be undertaken to get the learning disabled into meaningful activity where they can make some contribution through paid work.

[Liz Kendall]

I thank the right hon. Gentleman for that important contribution. I and the Minister for Social Security and Disability would be keen to hear more about that work. I recently visited a supported employment programme—a year-long supported internship—run by my local health service for young people with autism and severe learning difficulties. It started by talking to the parents about what the young people could do, and not just what they could not do. The young people were got on the bus to get them to work. They tried three different jobs around the hospital to find the one that best matched their needs, and after that year every single young person was given a paid job. That is so successful that we are expanding it to the local university and to one of Leicester’s biggest hotel chains. These changes are possible, and I am keen to work with the right hon. Gentleman in his area to ensure that we give these opportunities.

Food Banks

John Glen Excerpts

Tuesday 19th November 2024 Westminster Hall

[Seamus Logan]

The hon. Member makes a powerful point; I completely agree, and I will refer to that later.

A quick chat with a volunteer can provide vital reassurance to those who need to use a food bank that they are not alone and that support is out there. I would like to share some brief testimony from those who have used the Aberdeenshire North food bank. One person said:

“The volunteers were fantastic, offering a chat and a shoulder to cry on. I suffer from depression as well and without the foodbank I don’t think I would be here today”.

That was from a former police officer who suffered delays to his employment support allowance and incurred significant costs associated with his transport. A local single parent who was forced to reduce her working hours after her child fell ill said:

“The people at the foodbank were wonderful, they understood and saved us.”

[John Glen (Salisbury) (Con)]

I represent Salisbury, where the Trussell Trust was founded. The hon. Gentleman is making an important point about the fact that the people who use food banks have many dimensions to their poverty. It is important that we address that, rather than believing that just by giving more food, we are doing people a true service in the long term. Ten years ago, the all-party parliamentary group on food banks looked at the deeper causes and how to build stronger foundations to stop people having to use food banks repeatedly. Does he agree that we should look at that now?

[Seamus Logan]

Yes, I agree, and I thank the right hon. Member, who is obviously well informed in these matters.

The generosity and kindness of food bank volunteers cannot be overstated. I impress on listeners to this debate that all the services and support from volunteers at food banks across the country are provided out of the kindness of their hearts and through the sacrifice of their free time. This hour and a half debate seems a small tribute in comparison with their efforts.

As demand surged for food poverty support during the covid pandemic, volunteers across the country answered the call. There was a massive increase in voluntary work and community spirit. Volunteers are a great credit not just to their local communities, but to the nation as a whole. I am taken aback by the volume of local organisations that work with and support the Aberdeenshire North food bank. Supermarkets, schools, businesses, medical practices and community groups, such as my local rotary club, come together all year round to support those who need it. That is truly inspiring. I also pay tribute to the referral organisations across the constituency. They often take a proactive and caring approach when they think that someone may be struggling. Although it is often a difficult conversation for both the referrer and the referee, it can lead to families being provided with much-needed food and invaluable support.

The scale of the operation involved, with so many nationwide and local charities working together to support the most vulnerable and provide nutritious food to families, is simply incredible. It is a massive volunteering operation from start to finish. Deliveries from volunteer drivers are received by volunteers at locations in community buildings, for example, that let out their premises to allow food banks to exist in a central location, where they sort donations and distribute parcels. Fundraising is also an important and year-long part of food banks’ operation. The funds go directly to maintaining the excellent service provided by the food bank. When transport links, even where they are available, are often long and costly, it is heartening to know that home deliveries are also provided in some cases.

Last week, the hon. Member for South Shields (Mrs Lewell-Buck) kindly sponsored an event involving representatives from Sustainable Food Places, a network that brings together food partnerships from across the UK that support healthy and sustainable food. In my constituency, Sustainable Food Places partners with Fair Food Aberdeenshire. Their services are a great help to those in need. They provide a food directory, allowing members of the public to see organisations in their area and across Aberdeenshire that provide help and support. That can be in the form of referrals and community larders and by sharing details of food outlets that offer reduced prices for children, allowing parents to get free food for their children when out and about.

The transformative impact of support provided by such organisations across Scotland, in particular, cannot be understated. A recent survey of residents that utilise support from the Good Food Scotland network of larders in Glasgow found that 61% are eating more fresh fruit and vegetables; 64% are able to cook more balanced meals at home; 35% have less need for food banks; and 63% describe higher levels of wellbeing. An average of £15 is saved per visit on groceries.

The timing of this debate as the months get colder—perhaps today is a good example—should be noted. Energy usage and associated costs will go up for families across the UK, and many will be worrying at home and at work right now about how to heat their home, afford food and give gifts to their friends and family this festive season.

I will now discuss food banks more generally in the UK and the measures that could be taken to reduce the need for them. Food banks have become a common feature across the UK—a stark symbol of the scale of food poverty across the country. The Trussell Trust, which operates the largest network of food banks in the UK, reported distributing 3.12 million emergency food parcels in 2023-24. That represents a 94% increase from just five years prior. That should give us all pause for concern and spur us into the actions that I will describe shortly.

However, it should be noted that although the Trussell Trust is the largest food bank in the UK, it does not encompass all food banks. Therefore, the figure of 3.12 million emergency food parcels being delivered is likely to be even higher when we factor in the work done by others. The escalating cost of living is a major driver in this worrying trend, with food prices experiencing a 19.1% surge in the year up to March 2023. That has undeniably fuelled the crisis. When food poverty is described as “household food insecurity”, 2022-23 figures show that the UK saw a startling 11% of its population—over 7.2 million individuals—in that category, grappling with food insecurity every day. That is a significant jump of 2.5 million from the previous year. Children bear a disproportionate burden, with 17% experiencing food insecurity, highlighting the vulnerability of our little ones.

Health issues, unemployment cuts and delays to benefits are issues that I have already mentioned. Food banks were intended as a temporary measure to provide emergency food aid, and they are a stopgap measure rather than a long-term solution. And here is the crunch: we need measures to reduce or even eliminate the need for food banks in the UK.

First, we need an essentials guarantee. Supported by the Trussell Trust and the Joseph Rowntree Foundation, that would ensure that social security payments never fall below the amount needed to afford the essentials to live, including household bills, food and transportation.

Secondly, a robust social safety net is needed. That encompasses policy suggestions such as implementing a statutory living wage and dismantling austerity measures that have disproportionately impacted low-income households. Reforms to the benefits system, particularly addressing benefit delays, sanctions and the five-week waiting period for universal credit payments, are crucial elements.

Thirdly, the upcoming review into universal credit is a golden opportunity to realise important improvements that can be made, and I have mentioned those. The UK Government need to fully seize the opportunity to deliver on their manifesto commitment to abolish the need for people to turn to emergency food to survive.

Fourthly, strengthening the nutritional safety net for children and young people is necessary. That includes proposals such as automatic enrolment of eligible children for free school meals, as well as expanding eligibility criteria for the programme. Holiday programmes ensuring children’s access to food during school breaks are also in need of support. Ensuring that children get the healthy food they need, especially over holiday periods, is paramount.

Fifthly, we need to empower local communities. Another policy that could be explored is bolstering local safety nets through the development and expansion of dignified food aid models and moving beyond the traditional charity model. The models include affordable food clubs, social supermarkets and community kitchens offering choice and fostering a sense of community.

The Scottish Government have introduced many policies that have gone a long way to reducing food poverty in Scotland: the best start grant and best start foods, the Scottish child payment, which is described by charities as a game changer, child benefit, free school meals, free transport for under-22s, the school clothing grant, education maintenance allowance, child disability payment and adult disability payment.

Even policies that do not directly provide financial support for food provision can still indirectly reduce food poverty by giving households more breathing room and the ability to dedicate more money to buying healthy food. In Scotland we have the Scottish welfare fund, and I believe that in England there is a similar fund called the household support fund. The problem with the latter is that it does not have a strategic drive or intent; it is simply funding that is given to local councils, which are allowed to distribute it as they wish. Central Government strategy is vital. A future policy being discussed in Scotland is a social tariff for the most vulnerable, such as those on low incomes, the elderly and the disabled. Reduced energy costs for the most vulnerable in society could be transformative on poverty and would avoid people choosing between heating and eating.

I pay tribute to the work of the all-party parliamentary group on ending the need for food banks. I encourage all Members who are present but are not members of the group to consider joining. I thank hon. Members for attending the debate; I know that the continuing use of food banks troubles us all deeply and creates huge concern across the UK and in Government. I look forward to hearing contributions from Members and learning more about the incredible work done by food banks in their constituencies.

Finally, I echo an expression used by my party colleague Richard Thomson, the former Member for Gordon. He said that

“it is often in the worst of circumstances that we find the best of ourselves.”—[Official Report, 2 May 2024; Vol. 749, c. 215WH.]

Income Tax (Charge)

John Glen Excerpts

Monday 4th November 2024 Commons Chamber

[John Glen (Salisbury) (Con)]

What a great privilege it is to be sitting on the Back Benches and able to make a contribution freely after 12 years on the Front Bench, as a Parliamentary Private Secretary or Minister.

I pay tribute to the hon. Member for Wrexham (Andrew Ranger) for his maiden speech and acknowledge what a wonderful experience it was to visit Wrexham about 10 months ago, as part of the Places for Growth work that I was involved in in the Cabinet Office.

I hope that I can use the freedom I now have to speak candidly about some of the experiences I had in government. I want to make some remarks about that experience and the legacy of the last five years, talk about growth enablement, make some observations about some of the Budget measures related to that matter, and also speak for a few moments about unforeseen risks and my concerns about whether the Budget will give us the space as a country to deal with those risks.

Five years ago, an election was called, with an outcome a few weeks later—I certainly did not think that three months after that we would be shutting down the economy because of covid. I was in the Treasury with my right hon. Friend the Member for Richmond and Northallerton (Rishi Sunak), and we quickly had to institute the bounce back loans and the furlough scheme—exceptional infusions of cash for public services to keep the economy going. Consequentially, tax levels had to rise, and of course we had a spirited debate this year about those levels of taxation.

Those of us who have been through several elections recognise that, given the politics of elections, there is a trade-off between candour and obfuscation. I observe that, after this Budget, the gap is wider than normal, and the assertion about the £22 billion black hole has not been legitimised. I look forward to addressing some of those issues on the Treasury Committee in the coming days.

The Government’s core argument, though, is that there is a level of investment required to secure growth through improvements in productivity and by dealing with the lack of investment in recent years. I wish them well with that, because it is in the interests of our whole economy to see greater productivity, but I am profoundly concerned about some of the choices that have been made. There seems to be a surge of investment in the next two years, but serious questions about the settlements for non-protected Departments thereafter.

I am concerned about the decisions made on public sector wage settlements and the precedent deemed to be given for other workforces in subsequent years to seek greater settlements without conditionality. Unless we drive higher productivity in the public sector, as well as encouraging investment in the private sector, we will not see the growth that we hope for. I am also worried about the costs—nearly £5 billion—of the Employment Rights Bill, and about the tax increases for those who employ people in this country. But I wish the Government well.

The theme of today’s debate is some of the reforms needed to look after the interests of working people. We have seen a surge in the number of working-age people who are not in gainful employment. About 12 years ago, we decided in this House, rightly, to ensure parity of esteem between those experiencing mental health problems and those with physical health problems. But in truth, our benefits system has not adequately interrogated how to deal with intermittent mental health problems. We will have to work together constructively for the right settlement to get those people back into work. We must put the emphasis on what people can do, rather than what they cannot do, and ensure that people who are partially fit for work are encouraged back into work.

Finally, I want to address our capacity, further to this Budget, to deal with shocks. In February 2022, we thought we were coming out of covid. I was at a meeting in my neighbouring constituency of Andover, and Putin’s Ukraine incursion happened. We had massive inflation and had to find £90 billion overnight. My concern is that there is not enough capacity to deal with the shocks that we could see in a very uncertain world—the energy shock might occur again.

I want to be as constructive as I can be from where I now sit—that is a responsibility of His Majesty’s loyal Opposition—but I am concerned that a number of the decisions in this Budget will not lay the foundations for the more productive, higher-growth economy that is expected and wanted, and I am very concerned about there not being enough in reserve for what we may face.

Compensation (London Capital & Finance plc and Fraud Compensation Fund) Bill (First sitting)

John Glen Excerpts

Committee stage
Tuesday 15th June 2021 Public Bill Committees

[The Chair]

Very good. Minister Glen?

[The Economic Secretary to the Treasury (John Glen)]

No, I do not, thank you.

[The Chair]

That brings us to the end of this session. I thank all the witnesses for giving evidence.

Examination of Witness

David Taylor gave evidence.

--- Later in debate ---

[The Chair]

Minister Glen?

[John Glen]

No, Ms Ghani.

[The Chair]

Okay, that brings us to the end of this session. If there are no further questions from Members, I thank the witnesses for their evidence. Because we have closed a little sooner than expected, I will invite the Government Whip to propose the Adjournment. Please will Committee members leave the room promptly by the door marked “Exit”, while observing social distancing? The Committee will meet again today at 2 pm in Committee Room 10 to begin line-by-line consideration of the Bill.

Ordered, That further consideration be now adjourned. —(Alan Mak.)

Compensation (London Capital & Finance plc and Fraud Compensation Fund) Bill

John Glen Excerpts

2nd reading
Tuesday 8th June 2021 Commons Chamber

[The Economic Secretary to the Treasury (John Glen)]

It is a great honour to speak in this debate and to have worked with the pensions Minister—the Under-Secretary of State for Work and Pensions, my hon. Friend the Member for Hexham (Guy Opperman)—to bring forward this legislation. Many Members of this House, if not all, will have constituents who have been affected by the issues that we have dealt with and discussed this afternoon.

I am pleased that the Bill has the support of Members across the House. I have listened carefully to the debate. Observations have been made about the FCA and about the House’s confidence in its conduct; I will seek to address those points and to respond to the important points raised by several hon. Members about the compensation scheme for London Capital & Finance.

Let me begin with the scope of the compensation scheme and what it means in relation to the Government’s approach to future firm failures—a point that the right hon. Member for Hayes and Harlington (John McDonnell) and others raised. The LCF is not the only mini-bond firm that has failed in recent years. The Treasury, in collaboration with the FCA, has examined every mini-bond issuer known to have failed in the past eight years. Following that detailed analysis, the Government are satisfied that the circumstances surrounding LCF are truly exceptional.

As hon. Members may already be aware, the issuance of mini-bonds is not regulated by the FCA. As my hon. Friend the pensions Minister set out, LCF was an FCA-authorised firm despite not receiving any income from regulated activities. LCF is unique in that regard; indeed, it is the only mini-bond issuer that was authorised by the FCA and that sold bonds to on-lend to other companies. That is important, because one of the central findings in Dame Elizabeth Gloster’s excellent report is that because LCF was authorised, the FCA should have considered its business holistically, including the unregulated activity of issuing mini-bonds. The FCA cannot be said to have the same responsibilities with regard to unauthorised firms. Although the Government have not seen evidence to suggest that the regulatory failings at the FCA caused the losses for bondholders, they were a major factor that the Government considered when deciding to establish the scheme.

I pause to acknowledge the representations made by the hon. Members for Strangford (Jim Shannon) and for Kirkcaldy and Cowdenbeath (Neale Hanvey) and by my hon. Friend the Member for Leigh (James Grundy). I will set out in due course, in the coming months, the details of how the scheme will operate. I am very happy to take correspondence on individual cases, but I think it would be inappropriate to try to address at the Dispatch Box this evening every single case raised. However, I have received and read many letters from individuals who have lost money after investing in LCF and other failed mini-bond firms, including Blackmore Bond and Basset & Gold, which were raised in the debate.

I sincerely extend my sympathy to all those affected, as I know that many individuals have suffered financial hardship—severe financial hardship, in many cases—as a result of their investment losses. However, I must be clear that the Government cannot step in to pay compensation in respect of every failed financial services firm. That falls outside the financial services compensation scheme, would create a moral hazard for investors and would potentially lead individuals to choose unsuitable investments, thinking that the Government would provide compensation in all cases if things went wrong.

The Government’s approach follows the historical precedent. I note that only three compensation schemes have been established in the past 35 years—for Barlow Clowes, a Ponzi scheme that failed in the late 1980s, Equitable Life and LCF—despite many investment firms failing over that period. The Government are also seeking to ensure that the situation never arises in the future. In April, we launched a consultation with proposals to bring mini-bonds into FCA regulation.

The right hon. Member for Wolverhampton South East (Mr McFadden) asked a number of questions about the Government’s confidence about the FCA’s capability. As the Under-Secretary of State for Work and Pensions, my hon. Friend the Member for Hexham mentioned, the transformation programme that the new chief executive, who has been in post for just over eight months, is undertaking at pace is designed to empower the organisation at all levels to hear the representations that the right hon. Member for Wolverhampton South East made, to act on them, and to deal proactively with the cases that are raised.

[Gareth Thomas]

It is encouraging to hear the Minister’s confidence in the transformation programme. Given the concerns that consumers might lose out in the demutualisation of Liverpool Victoria, will he sit down with the new chief executive of the FCA and go through how the FCA will ensure that consumers’ interests are properly protected if that demutualisation goes ahead?

[John Glen]

I thank the hon. Gentleman, as ever, for his representations. He has been a determined campaigner for that sector during my tenure. I have regular conversations, at least every six weeks, with the chief executive of the FCA, and we discuss a whole range of matters. I would be very happy to discuss that matter with him when I next speak to him in the next few weeks.

As Members from across the House have recognised today, the measure concerning a loan to the board of the Pension Protection Fund, set out in clause 2, is vital to ensure that those defrauded of their pensions by scam pension liberation schemes are able to access the compensation that they deserve. The Bill will ensure that those whose pensions have been unjustly targeted by fraudsters receive their pensions. We must continue to provide a safety net for people across the UK, who deserve to have confidence that they will have a pension pot for their retirement. I note that a number of observations were made about the ongoing challenge of dealing with the evolving nature of financial services firms and the sophistication of scams. The Under-Secretary of State for Work and Pensions, my hon. Friend the Member for Hexham, and I are working across Whitehall to bring an effective resolution to this matter.

I acknowledge that Members from across the House have supported the principles of the Bill, and I welcome the support that it has received. It will offer some relief to the enormous distress and hardship suffered by LCF bondholders and victims of fraudulent pension liberation schemes. It is an important Bill, and I want to move as quickly as possible from Royal Assent to enact it and deliver that compensation. I hope that right hon. and hon. Members will support it this evening.

Question put and agreed to.

Bill accordingly read a Second time.

Compensation (London Capital & Finance plc and Fraud Compensation Fund) Bill (Programme)

Motion made, and Question put forthwith (Standing Order No. 83A(7)),

That the following provisions shall apply to the Compensation (London Capital & Finance plc and Fraud Compensation Fund) Bill:

Committal

The Bill shall be committed to a Public Bill Committee.

Proceedings in Public Bill Committee

(2) Proceedings in the Public Bill Committee shall (so far as not previously concluded) be brought to a conclusion on Thursday 17 June.

(3) The Public Bill Committee shall have leave to sit twice on the first day on which it meets.

Proceedings on Consideration and Third Reading

(4) Proceedings on Consideration shall (so far as not previously concluded) be brought to a conclusion one hour before the moment of interruption on the day on which proceedings on Consideration are commenced.

(5) Proceedings on Third Reading shall (so far as not previously concluded) be brought to a conclusion at the moment of interruption on that day.

(6) Standing Order No. 83B (Programming committees) shall not apply to proceedings on Consideration and Third Reading.

Other proceedings

(7) Any other proceedings on the Bill may be programmed.—(Alan Mak.)

Question agreed to.

Compensation (London Capital & Finance plc and Fraud Compensation Fund) Bill (money)

Queen’s recommendation signified.

Motion made, and Question put forthwith (Standing Order No. 52(1)(a)),

That, for the purposes of any Act resulting from the Compensation (London Capital & Finance plc and Fraud Compensation Fund) Bill, it is expedient to authorise the payment out of money provided by Parliament of:

(a) expenditure incurred by the Treasury for, or in connection with, the payment of compensation to customers of London Capital & Finance plc; and

(b) loans by the Secretary of State to the Board of the Pension Protection Fund.—(Alan Mak.)

Question agreed to.

Compensation (London Capital & Finance plc and Fraud Compensation Fund) Bill (ways and means)

Motion made, and Question put forthwith (Standing Order No. 52(1)(a)),

That, for the purposes of any Act resulting from the Compensation (London Capital & Finance plc and Fraud Compensation Fund) Bill, it is expedient to authorise such levying of charges under section 189 of the Pensions Act 2004 and Article 171 of the Pensions (Northern Ireland) Order 2005 as may arise by virtue of that Act.—(Alan Mak.)

Question agreed to.

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Rosie Winterton)]

I will now suspend the House for two minutes to make the necessary arrangements for the next business.

Financial Guidance and Claims Bill [ Lords ] (Second sitting)

John Glen Excerpts

Thursday 1st February 2018 Public Bill Committees

[Yvonne Fovargue]

The number of bankruptcies is not the issue; they are actually quite rare. A very small proportion of the people who go to debt organisations are made bankrupt. It takes most people with the average amount of consumer debt four to six months to deal with it. Those are not people who would ever have looked at bankruptcy. Bankruptcy is not appropriate for them and would not even be considered.

The average number of consumer debts is rising, and creditors are slow at responding. People often forget to bring in a debt, and so they have to write to all the creditors and redo the statements. Six weeks is just about better than nothing, but I would say, from my long experience of dealing with debts, that four months is probably the minimum. We want to prevent creditors from delaying it until the six weeks is over and people have to go for extensions, which may or may not be granted. Some creditors—I have to be honest—delay it simply so they are not part of the solution.

Although I still think the length of time is inadequate, I welcome the proposal for a breathing space. Another issue with the length of time is that it is very difficult for people who suffer from depression or low-level mental health problems to make regular appointments, and they are often asked to come in all the time to deal with their debt. That needs to be taken into account. I welcome the move, but please do not be wedded to six weeks.

[The Economic Secretary to the Treasury (John Glen)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Rosindell, and to participate in this stage of the process. I feel a bit like poacher turned gamekeeper, given that I was a member of the Work and Pensions Committee a few years ago when many of these matters were discussed. I remember having long discussions with my hon. Friend the Member for South Thanet and the hon. Member for Paisley and Renfrewshire South. It is still a matter of great sadness that I have not been to Paisley.

Amendments 34 and 35 would require the Government to implement a breathing space scheme within six months of the Bill’s receiving Royal Assent. It is legitimate to press that point, because everybody on this Committee—this was striking on Second Reading—is concerned and feels a sense of urgency. Before I became a Minister, I spent time working with Members of other parties on the all-party group on hunger and food poverty. I visited South Shields and saw at first hand, in a community that is very different from mine in Salisbury, the distress that debt can cause. Now that I am a Minister and in a position to do something, I am extremely focused on ensuring that this happens.

Members of all parties agree that creating a breathing space scheme will have significant benefits for thousands of the most vulnerable families. However, it will need to be designed properly and implemented in partnership with the debt advice sector and creditors. Creating a scheme will ensure that vulnerable consumers have time to assess their financial situation and begin to deal with their debts. The Government are committed to establishing a scheme as quickly and effectively as possible, including through the passage of the Bill. I am pleased that clauses 7 and 8 provide for the scheme’s introduction, but it is worth acknowledging how complex some of these situations are and how complex the scheme may need to be. It includes both a breathing space and a statutory debt management plan. It involves significant co-operation among creditors, debt advisers and those accessing a breathing space, who in many cases could be leading chaotic lives.

I listened carefully to the hon. Member for Makerfield on Second Reading. I always have great respect for her when she speaks in the House. Today she talked about needing four months, and on Second Reading she talked about needing six months. She cited an example of somebody who may think they have all their debts lined up, and then another materialises later on. Those are the sort of complex situations that we need to come to terms with in the design of the scheme. There are significant questions about how debtors can access the scheme, which debts are included, how flexible the scheme can be, and how it ties in with existing statutory debt solutions.

[Mike Amesbury]

What does the Minister mean by “as quickly and as effectively as possible”? Would he give us a timeframe?

[John Glen]

I will come to that point and will be as explicit as I can, giving an indicative timeframe.

The scheme needs to be properly designed with consultation with experts in the debt advice and creditor sectors. That is key to ensuring that it works in practice and properly benefits the lives of the vulnerable people that we all want it to support.

The Government are clear that it will not be possible to conclude that process within six months of Royal Assent, which is what the amendment would require. However, I agree with the hon. Member for Makerfield that we must work quickly to establish the scheme, given the benefits it could bring to indebted individuals. To that extent, the Government have set out a clear timeline for the implementation of breathing space.

My officials are currently working hard to analyse responses to the Government’s call for evidence on the scheme, which closed on 16 January. Following that process, we will consult on a single policy design proposal this summer. In tandem, we will ask the new body for advice on specific aspects of the scheme that it is well placed to advise on, to ensure the scheme is rolled out smoothly and embedded in the practices of the debt advice and creditor sectors. We will seek that advice immediately after the body is established, and it will be very tightly framed to ensure that the process does not delay the scheme’s introduction.

Throughout the period, my officials will be drafting regulations to introduce the scheme and I can confirm that they will be laid as soon as possible in 2019. I feel the frustration of Members on, I suspect, both sides of the Committee. All I can say is that I will be doing everything I can and will be working very closely with the Under-Secretary of State for Work and Pensions, my hon. Friend the Member for Hexham, to make sure that we do this as quickly as possible.

[Yvonne Fovargue]

As one of those people who are feeling the frustration with the 2019 date, why do we have to wait for the establishment of this body when all the debt charities and most of the creditors have been pressing for a breathing space under the old system? Why do we have to wait for the new body to do that?

[John Glen]

I acknowledge the problem, but having taken the trouble to move three entities into one single body and to make it an authoritative place for people to go to for reliable advice across different elements, it would be appropriate, given how central the debt problem is, for it to have a meaningful contribution to establishing the parameters of the scheme. That seems consistent with the objectives that we have set out and discussed, although I acknowledge the wide—although not complete —consensus.

I will reflect on the point made by my hon. Friend the Member for Brentwood and Ongar about the Scottish experience. It is interesting and instructive that that has iterated quite significantly over time over many years, albeit with a significantly smaller cohort of just 2,000 people. That tells us that lessons have to be learned through experience of work on the ground. I am extremely anxious that we get the best possible scheme designed by the time the process is concluded. This process balances speed with getting the policy right.

[Yvonne Fovargue]

I would also mention the independent review of the debt advice provision. It concluded very speedily. It was a very short process, and concluded over the Christmas period, in January. Will the recommendations in that have to wait to 2019 to be implemented? Some of them seem extremely sensible.

[John Glen]

I am grateful to the hon. Lady for making that point. I am aware of that report, which came through on 25 January. I have seen a summary of its recommendations. Officials are looking at it and I will be dealing with it as quickly as I can. I was assisted with typical helpfulness from colleagues on the House of Lords stipulation. The House of Lords was very keen that the new body should have input into the formulation of the scheme and the respite period—that is worthy of consideration.

--- Later in debate ---

[Jack Dromey]

The Minister speaks with obvious sincerity, which is welcome. As has repeatedly come up in our proceedings today, whether our experience is from our constituency or otherwise, we have all seen the price that people pay as they sink ever more deeply into debt. I do not mind admitting that there was one particular case—it is not appropriate to go into the details—where, when my constituent walked out the room, I was in tears because of what had happened to her. Her life was in a downward spiral. There is common ground and obvious sincerity, so the Government should act.

We will not push the amendment to a vote, but I suggest that the Government reflect further and come back on Report with the best possible timescale for implementation. I agree with my hon. Friend the Member for Makerfield: we should not necessarily have to await the formation of the new body. The scheme is a related matter to the function of the body—of that there is no doubt—but we have seen experiences such as the arrangements in Scotland. We also have the collective wisdom of the discussions in the sector and in the House of Lords. Everyone is determined to get it right. We just do not think that the scheme should be introduced a year beyond the Bill coming into effect in three or four months’ time. We would be talking about it being a year and a half before we ultimately see this welcome mechanism introduced.

In not pushing the amendment to a vote at this stage, I ask the Government to reflect further and come back on Report on two things. First, we want clarity on what the Government think is necessary. The Minister has gone a long way towards that. We want clarity about how one goes about arriving at the default scheme. That relates to the mechanisms and who should be engaged. The Minister has referred to that already. Secondly, we want the quickest possible timescale to get the scheme introduced. If the Minister will respond accordingly on Report, I am prepared to withdraw the amendment.

[John Glen]

I am grateful for the hon. Gentleman indicating that he will withdraw the amendment. I observed closely what he said on clarity on the default scheme and having the quickest mechanism possible to bring it forward. I will reflect with my colleague the Under-Secretary of State for Work and Pensions, my hon. Friend the Member for Hexham and provide an update on Report.

[Jack Dromey]

I beg to ask leave to withdraw the amendment.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

Clause 7 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clause 8 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clause 9

Guidance and directions from the Secretary of State

Question proposed, That the clause stand part of the Bill.

Oral Answers to Questions

John Glen Excerpts

Monday 21st November 2016 Commons Chamber

[Damian Green]

I do not agree with the hon. Lady’s analysis of universal credit. The great thing about it is precisely that it does make work pay. We all remember the cliff edges that people were faced with: once they started to work more than 16 or 30 hours a week, they had to decide whether they would be better off in work or on benefits. That is a terrible choice to put before someone. The whole point of universal credit, which we are steadily rolling out, is that work always pays. People know that if they go into work, or if they work extra hours, they will always benefit from that. If she does not accept that, I am afraid that she and I fundamentally disagree about the fact that work is the best route out of poverty. She appears to be denying that fact.

[John Glen (Salisbury) (Con)]

9. What progress his Department is making on the roll-out of universal credit.

[The Secretary of State for Work and Pensions (Damian Green)]

Last week, we announced the remainder of the roll-out of universal credit full service through to September 2018. Universal credit is now being delivered in every jobcentre and local authority, with over 400,000 claimants now receiving it.

[John Glen]

I thank the Secretary of State for that reply. Given that one is more likely to be employed, to work more and to earn more on universal credit than on JSA, will he confirm, on the mechanics and progress of the roll-out, that the test-and-learn approach is enabling difficulties to be quickly identified and resolved so that the roll-out can be delivered smoothly in the next few months?

[Damian Green]

My hon. Friend is right to point out the technical aspects of the roll-out. We have always been clear that an undertaking of this size and scale would be bound to meet obstacles. That was precisely why we adopted the test-and-learn approach which, I am glad to report, has worked. We have listened to issues raised by our staff and officials, and by claimants and other stakeholders. We now have a solid foundation. Universal credit is delivered in every jobcentre and local authority area. As I said, 400,000 claimants are now receiving it and being supported to build a better future for themselves.

Universal Credit (Children)

John Glen Excerpts

Tuesday 10th May 2016 Commons Chamber

[Priti Patel]

As the hon. Gentleman has just heard me say, when we publish our life chances strategy and focus on tackling the root causes of child poverty—we are committed to eradicating child poverty, as well—we will be driving those numbers down.

[John Glen (Salisbury) (Con)]

Will my right hon. Friend ensure that when this life chances strategy is published, significant thought will be given to its integration with the lessons learned from the troubled families programme to ensure that the range of interventions across multiple Departments are integrated to give the best chance of success?

[Priti Patel]

My hon. Friend makes an important point. Of course, the point about the life chances strategy is that it will be a cross-government strategy. The focus will be integration and support. The troubled families programme has been very successful in transforming families and turning their circumstances around, supporting work and the right kind of outcomes. We are incredibly focused on and conscious of the need to integrate. Once the strategy is published, all hon. Members will see that completely.

The point about universal credit, of course, is that it removes barriers that prevent people from finding work and increasing their hours and earnings. Universal credit provides the right support to incentivise work and, in particular, removes some of the barriers that were in place, including the restrictions on hours worked, such as the 16-hour rule.

Not just in this debate but in others and in various Committees of this House, we have been very clear that universal credit claimants receive not only support from their work coaches but additional support for childcare costs. Our in-work progression trials have begun to test how work coaches can continue to provide tailored support to in-work claimants so that they can progress and, importantly, increase their earning capacity.

Welfare

John Glen Excerpts

Monday 21st March 2016 Commons Chamber

[Stephen Crabb]

The hon. Lady makes a really important point about the vital role of carers in our communities and all across society. That is exactly why since 2010 the Government have spent more than £2 billion extra supporting carers, but I would always be happy to meet her and other groups representing carers to find out what more we can do to ease the challenges they face in their daily lives.

[John Glen (Salisbury) (Con)]

I warmly welcome my right hon. Friend’s appointment, and I know that he will respect the policy legacy of his predecessor. When he looks at pay progression in this country and the worthwhile pilot that his Department is undertaking, may I urge him to look creatively at solutions across government with the Department for Business, Innovation and Skills and the Department of Health to ensure that we are not just satisfied to get people into work, but that we look to move them through the pay scales to sustainable, independent living?

[Stephen Crabb]

That is a really important point from my hon. Friend, who serves on the Work and Pensions Committee and is very knowledgeable about these issues. It is not just about seeing more disabled people move into work—an increase in the number—we want to see more disabled people earning higher wages, too. I confess that I was not previously aware of the initiative he mentions, but I will certainly look into it to see whether we can expand it.

Oral Answers to Questions

John Glen Excerpts

Monday 14th March 2016 Commons Chamber

[Justin Tomlinson]

We spend almost double what the Germans spend—about 6% of our Government spending, which is more than we spend on our police and defence budgets combined.

[John Glen (Salisbury) (Con)]

3. What assessment he has made of the effect of family stability on levels of poverty and on life chances.

[The Secretary of State for Work and Pensions (Mr Iain Duncan Smith)]

Our family stability review found that family instability is one of the main drivers of poverty, with unstable families more likely to have low incomes. That is why support for families is firmly at the heart of what we are doing in Government, such as doubling the funding for relationship support and doubling the amount of free childcare.

[John Glen]

I welcome the Government’s determination to tackle the root causes of poverty. With respect to the doubling of funding for the relationship support scheme, what steps is the Secretary of State taking to ensure that the scheme can be accessed across the country by those who find it hardest to reach Government support and those who most need it?

[Mr Duncan Smith]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right, and I pay tribute to the huge amount of work he has done in backing this up and supporting it, and to the work he is doing at present to make sure it gets across to everybody. We are clear that any new or extended support that we provide—and we do—will need to be accessible and effective for all families, no matter where they are, with additional, complex needs, and more will be said on that when we bring forward the life chances strategy, to be published this summer. However, I can guarantee to him that it is the No. 1 priority to make sure everybody who needs support gets it.