Welsh Affairs

Jo Stevens Excerpts

Thursday 29th February 2024 Commons Chamber

[Mr David Jones (Clwyd West) (Con)]

I congratulate my right hon. Friend the Member for Preseli Pembrokeshire (Stephen Crabb) on securing the debate and mildly support his criticism of its attenuated nature; it is really not acceptable.

Last Saturday, I had the great pleasure of hosting the Secretary of State for Levelling Up, Housing and Communities, my right hon. Friend the Member for Surrey Heath (Michael Gove), as he visited the town of Ruthin in my constituency. Ruthin is—I apologise to the hon. Member for Gower (Tonia Antoniazzi)—arguably the finest, most beautiful small town in the whole of Wales. It is benefiting from a levelling-up award of some £11 million. The Secretary of State was very impressed with the levelling-up proposals for Ruthin and he received a warm welcome.

That was in contrast with what happened two days previously, also in my constituency, when the Welsh Government’s First Minister decided to cancel a visit to Colwyn Bay, having received a warm welcome of a rather different nature from farmers in Rhyl the previous day. The farmers were protesting about the Welsh Government’s sustainable farming scheme, which they consider detrimental to their interests. I fully share their view. The Welsh Government’s proposals, which as we have heard are currently subject to a consultation, would require farmers to set aside 10% of their land for tree planting and another 10% for wildlife habitats to qualify for subsidy payments. The Welsh Government say that the aim of the scheme is

“to secure food production systems, keep farmers farming the land, safeguard the environment, and address the urgent call of the climate and nature emergency.”

It is hard to see how reducing the productive land available to each farmer by 20% will either “safeguard food production systems” or “keep farmers farming the land”, and it is impossible to see how any measures introduced by the Welsh Government, in almost any context, will make any appreciable difference to the climate emergency.

The Welsh Government’s plans, quite simply, will damage agriculture in Wales, and that is not just my view. It was also the conclusion of the Welsh Government’s own impact assessment, which predicted that the policies would result in

“a 10.8% reduction in Welsh livestock numbers; an 11% cut in labour on Welsh farms; and a £125.3 million hit to output from the sector and a loss of £199 million to farm business incomes.”

Given that their own impact assessment has predicted such dreadful consequences, it is almost impossible to understand why the Welsh Government think it is a good idea to plough on, so to speak, with what is clearly a catastrophic policy.

There is no doubt that climate change is a reality, which needs to be addressed and, indeed, is being addressed very effectively by the Westminster Government. However, when deciding whether the Welsh Government’s proposals are sensible or proportionate, we should take into account the fact that Welsh greenhouse gas emissions are already very low indeed. In 2021, the United Kingdom contributed only 0.77% of global greenhouse gas emissions. Of those emissions, Wales was responsible for just 7.5%, and the Welsh agricultural sector was responsible for only 15% of those Welsh emissions. Welsh agricultural greenhouse gas emissions therefore constitute just 0.008866% of the global total. Nigel Lawson famously observed that to govern is to choose. It is clear that the Welsh Government have deliberately chosen to penalise Welsh agriculture, damage Welsh farming incomes and decimate the ranks of those employed in the rural economy in order to achieve a reduction in greenhouse gas emissions that will, in global terms, be wholly insignificant.

[Jo Stevens (Cardiff Central) (Lab)]

May I suggest, very respectfully, that rather than winding up the rhetoric, the right hon. Gentleman should encourage his constituents to respond to the consultation? There is still a whole week to go.

[Mr Jones]

I can assure the hon. Lady that my constituents have responded to the consultation, both on paper and physically. Several of them were in Cardiff yesterday, objecting to this ludicrous proposal.

If large numbers of Welsh farmers are forced off their land, which the Welsh Government’s own impact assessment predicts that they will be, the consequence will be increased rural depopulation. Welsh culture will be undermined, the Welsh language weakened, and it will be another nail in the coffin of the Welsh rural way of life—but that, it would appear, is entirely acceptable to the Welsh Government, provided that it results in a pitifully small reduction in emissions.

Of course, it is not just the farming community that is being damaged by the disproportionate pursuit of reducing greenhouse gas emissions. Reducing emissions was used to justify the ludicrous 20 mph speed limit that now prevails across built-up areas in Wales—a measure so hated that nearly 470,000 people have signed a petition calling for it to be scrapped. The same justification was given for last year’s decision to abandon all major road- building projects in Wales, including the desperately-needed third Menai crossing.

When he announced the policy, the Welsh Government’s Deputy Minister For Climate Change—yes, they apparently have a Deputy Minister as well as a Minister—acknowledged that

“None of this is easy.”

He was quite right in that respect. It is not easy for farmers, for commuters, for business people or for families. Livelihoods are being put at risk and lives are being made miserable by a Welsh Government who are putting dogma ahead of common sense. Let me repeat that to govern is to choose. The Welsh Government could, and should, make a new choice. They should recognise that they are the Administration of a relatively small, lightly populated part of the United Kingdom, and that they should be serving its specific needs and addressing its priorities in a proportionate manner. Wales needs better health care, better schools, better roads, a better economy and a better quality of life, and those needs are not well served by the dead hand of climate change fanaticism.

--- Later in debate ---

[Jo Stevens (Cardiff Central) (Lab)]

It is good to see you in the Chair again for this annual debate, Mr Deputy Speaker. I also thank the Chair of the Welsh Affairs Committee, the right hon. Member for Preseli Pembrokeshire (Stephen Crabb) for securing the debate, and I gently echo his sentiments about the time we have for this debate today. I thank the Backbench Business Committee for granting it and all colleagues present for their contributions to what is always a wide-ranging debate on Welsh affairs.

I will mention just a few contributions. My hon. Friend the Member for Gower (Tonia Antoniazzi) talked about rugby and cockles. My hon. Friend the Member for Llanelli (Dame Nia Griffith) gave a great speech about rail infrastructure, renewable energy, offshore wind delays and steel. My hon. Friend the Member for Swansea East (Carolyn Harris) is formidable, and she spoke about her “Everyone Deserves” campaign. If she asks you to help, you dare not say no, Mr Deputy Speaker. My hon. Friend the Member for Cynon Valley (Beth Winter) talked about our proud industrial past. My hon. Friend the Member for Newport West (Ruth Jones) talked about music and culture in her constituency, and I am very much looking forward to visiting the Corn Exchange this weekend. My hon. Friend the Member for Merthyr Tydfil and Rhymney (Gerald Jones) talked about two very important issues: post office closures, which I entirely recognise from the experience of my constituents in Cardiff Central, and the Government’s poor roll-out of pension credit.

St David’s Day is a time to celebrate Welsh heritage and national identity, and the Labour party is fiercely proud of our Welsh heritage. Ever since devolution, delivered by a Labour Government, Labour-led Welsh Governments have delivered positive change for the people of Wales: free prescriptions, free school lunches for all primary schoolchildren, the highest number of nurses and consultants in the Welsh NHS for a decade, the protection of the NHS bursary, unlike in England, and a ban on fracking, unlike in England, and those are just a few. Labour is the party of devolution. We are committed to reinforcing the status of the Senedd.

[Liz Saville Roberts]

Will the shadow Minister give way?

[Jo Stevens]

The right hon. Lady has made several contributions, so I will carry on, if she does not mind. We are committed to reinforcing the status of the Senedd, strengthening intergovernmental working and pushing power out of Westminster and into the hands of our communities.

Wales is brimming with potential. Yesterday, pupils from my constituency from St Philip Evans Catholic Primary School in Llanedeyrn came to Parliament, and I met them and their teachers at the end of their day here. They were fascinated by what they had seen and they gave me quite an enthusiastic grilling, with excellent questions, but they, like all children from across Wales, including those who visit Parliament’s wonderful education centre—I thank all the staff there for the tremendous job that they do—are our future. We all have a responsibility to make sure that they have a good future, full of the opportunities that they deserve.

I am ambitious for a future fuelled by the talent and innovation I have seen up and down Wales. I am proud of our roots in industry. Industry has been our history, and it can be our future, too, but the chaos and failure of the Government risk squandering that future. My hon. Friends have rightly mentioned steel several times today. Steelmaking is the lifeblood of communities across Wales, the backbone of our local economies and the foundation of our manufacturing capability, and that is why the deep cuts to jobs mooted at Port Talbot are a kick in the teeth.

Instead of having a proper industrial strategy like Labour, Conservative Ministers have compounded the risk to likelihoods, forking out £500 million in taxpayers’ money to see up to 3,000 people made redundant and forfeiting our ability to make virgin steel. The Secretary of State for Business and Trade—not known for diplomacy, I might add—said that Wales should consider it a win, and the Welsh Secretary said that it is mission accomplished on saving Welsh steelmaking. I am afraid that that attitude shows casual indifference to the thousands of people across Wales who have so much at stake here, and it shows a fundamental misunderstanding of our Welsh economy and a total disregard for the need to preserve the UK sovereign steelmaking capability.

However Conservative Ministers try to spin it, the loss of sovereign steelmaking is a fundamental threat to our UK economy and security—[Interruption.] The hon. Member for Workington (Mark Jenkinson) can chunter as much as he wants. However Tory Ministers try to spin it, that is the truth.

The floating offshore wind in the Celtic sea that we have heard about this afternoon and the new nuclear power plant at Wylfa that the hon. Member for Ynys Môn (Virginia Crosbie) has been begging for year after year, and which Labour Members want to see, will need significant quantities of steel. Where is it going to come from? In an increasingly uncertain world, the Government are surrendering our sovereign capability to build the Royal Navy ships we need to keep our shores safe and our shipbuilding industry strong.

The Secretary of State has said on numerous occasions that no one will be left behind. He talks about his role as chair of the transition board—a monument to his party’s failure to secure the future of sovereign steelmaking in Wales. I want to put a marker down here and now. If these job losses go ahead, I will be holding him to account every single step of the way.

I have seen this happen before. I grew up just take a few miles from Shotton steelworks, which in 1980, under a Tory Government, became scarred by its closure. The resulting loss of 6,500 jobs remains the biggest industrial redundancy on a single day in western Europe. It totally decimated the area. Nearly everyone at my school had family who worked in the steelworks or in the supply chain. The impact of those mass redundancies in our area was felt for years: all those skills and the potential of my generation wasted—the rug pulled from under our feet. I am deeply concerned that we will see that again, but this time in Port Talbot and right across our steel communities.

It is not just steel. On nuclear at Wylfa and on Newport Wafer Fab—the jewel in the crown of our high-tech south Wales cluster—the Government drag their feet while workers and their families nervously wait, jobs and investment go and opportunity withers.

Labour has a different view of how things could be, and we have set out our plan. A UK Labour Government will invest £2.5 billion in the UK steel industry by the end of their first term—that is on top of the Government’s earmarked £500 million. We will increase domestic demand for steel by more than doubling onshore wind capacity, tripling solar power and quadrupling offshore wind. We will get Britain building again.

A general election is coming. It is an opportunity for voters to make their voices heard. My pitch to them after 14 years of Conservative Government is this: if people feel it is no longer true that when they work hard they get on, if people are bored and frustrated with watching a chaotic, failed Government more focused on holding their party together than on governing, and if people feel like it is time for a change, they should look to Labour. We can build the economy of the future, create good-quality jobs, drive down energy bills and provide energy security, and we in Wales will play a critical role in powering the whole UK through a decade of national renewal, rekindling Wales’s proud industrial roots with the industries of the future.

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Nigel Evans)]

I call the Secretary of State.

[The Secretary of State for Wales (David T. C. Davies)]

Diolch yn fawr iawn, Mr Dirprwy Lefarydd, am y cyfle i ateb y ddadl heddiw. Thank you for allowing me to say a few things in this St David’s day debate, Mr Deputy Speaker. I thank my right hon. Friend the Member for Preseli Pembrokeshire (Stephen Crabb), the Chair of the Welsh Affairs Committee, for bringing forward the debate.

Let me turn straightaway to the comments made by the hon. Member for Cardiff Central (Jo Stevens). First, on what has actually been delivered by the Welsh Labour Government in Wales, with due respect, she left a few things out. She did not want to mention that the Welsh Labour Government have delivered the longest waiting lists in the whole of the United Kingdom. She did not want to mention that the Welsh Labour Government are now having to build air filters to blow away the diesel fumes from the ambulances that wait for nine, 10, 11 or 12 hours at a time outside Welsh hospitals. She did not want to mention that the Welsh Labour Government, after more than 20 years of devolution, have delivered the lowest educational standards in the whole of the United Kingdom—that is according to the OECD. She did not want to mention that the 20 mph limit is causing extra congestion in Wales. She did not want to mention that the Welsh Labour Government are damaging the economy by bringing in a ban on any new roads being built.

[Jo Stevens]

Can I correct the right hon. Gentleman? He keeps repeating this ban on all road building, which he knows is not correct. If hon. Members on the Government Benches want to complain about 20 mph zones, they might want to look at their own Department for Transport, which promotes them, and the Tory-run councils that have introduced them. The right hon. Gentleman wanted 20 mph in his own constituency. The organisers of the anti-20 mph social media groups in Wales are run by a Conservative councillor from Sunderland who—wait for it—has supported the measure in his own patch. You could not make it up!

[David T. C. Davies]

Like all Members of Parliament, I support a 20 mph limit outside schools, hospitals or other places where there are vulnerable people. What I have never done—and neither have the Conservative Opposition—is to support a blanket 20 mph speed limit. What I would never support is a suggestion of bringing back Severn bridge tolls, which was put forward by a Labour council in Monmouthshire—it is in its own leaflet. What I would never do is bring forward a tax on the tourism industry, which will destroy more jobs in one of the most important industries in Wales.

What I certainly would not do is to tell farmers that they have to put aside 20% of their land for planting trees and other wildlife schemes dreamed up by people who do not know what the countryside is all about. What I would not do is spend over £100 million on just about the only effective job creation scheme the Senedd has ever come up with—to create dozens of extra Senedd Members. The hon. Lady and various others, including the hon. Member for Gordon (Richard Thomson), mentioned the independent commission, which frankly was not that independent. The commission itself expressed grave reservations about the closed list voting system brought forward by the Welsh Labour Government without any proper discussion with the public upon whom it will be visited.

The hon. Lady wanted to talk about steel, so I suggest that she stop giving false hope to steelworkers in Port Talbot, or suggesting that this has come about as a result of a Government decision. The hon. Lady made a few comments that were simply factually incorrect; I might need to educate her a little about how steel is produced. First, there is no sovereign capability to make steel in a blast furnace, because every single bit of iron ore is bought in from abroad, as is all the coke, not least because the hon. Lady’s party wanted to shut down all coalmines because of concerns about the climate emergency. There is no possibility of virgin steelmaking because all the ingredients come from abroad. Secondly, as far as I am aware, none of that steel is being used by the Royal Navy, but steel is being produced for the Royal Navy in the United Kingdom—from Sheffield Forgemasters, and it comes out of an electric arc furnace.

Labour says that it has a plan for steelworkers in Port Talbot. I actually visited Mumbai about two weeks ago and spoke to the global head of Tata, and the head of Tata Steel. They made it very clear that no such plan was put to them by the shadow Front Bench team. There is no plan that they are looking at. The reason that they are shutting down those two blast furnaces is that they are losing over £1 million a day. The only plan that they were going to consider was insolvency, and pulling out of steelmaking in the United Kingdom all together.

The plan that the Government came up with was not a plan of giving half a billion pounds to fire 3,000 people; the Government were presented with a situation where Tata came in with insolvency practitioners and said, “We are pulling out of the United Kingdom.” Had it done so, it would have cost 8,000 jobs and 12,000 more in the supply chain. The Conservative Government, which I am proud to be serving, came up with a scheme whereby we put half a billion pounds towards building an arc furnace—a scheme that will save 5,000 jobs and a supply chain. It is absolutely wrong and misleading to suggest that we have given a steel company half a billion pounds to fire 3,000 people, when we have given them half a billion pounds to save 5,000 jobs, and to ensure that steel continues to be made in Wales.

The danger is that the hon. Lady’s words are being heard by Tata in India. Many people there will be thinking to themselves, “Do we actually want to continue investing in the United Kingdom if we can’t be certain that any deal we have will continue if there is a different Government?” The hon. Lady’s words are also going to be seen by workers in Port Talbot, who may be thinking to themselves that there is some secret plan that could save their jobs. There isn’t. If the hon. Lady does a little bit of research, she will find out very quickly that there is no plan C. There was a plan A, which would have shut the steelworks and cost every job, or a plan B, which saves 5,000 jobs.

The hon. Lady did not mention anything about the £100 million transition fund. The Government are not going to turn their backs on workers in Port Talbot. The Government have £100 million set aside to make sure that every single person who loses their job has access to the training they need to get further employment. The Government have saved jobs and are standing by the people of Port Talbot. I really hope she will find out a little bit more about it before trying to comment further.

I am also very proud of the work that the Government have been doing to level up across the rest of Wales. Under this Conservative Government, we have been responsible for four growth deals, three rounds of levelling-up funding, two investment zones, two freeports—including one in Port Talbot, which will encourage more industries to come in—the electric arc furnace, and the £1 billion project to electrify the north Wales coast main line. The Government have been doing an enormous amount to put money into Wales.

Following Brexit, the Government promised that farmers would not lose out by one single penny as a result of our leaving the European Union. We calculated what agriculture was getting during the last control period—it was about £337 million a year—and we made sure that that money continued to be delivered. It is very disappointing, therefore, that the Welsh Government have decided to take that money and plough it into a scheme that will reduce the amount of land available for growing agriculture, increase food miles, and throw 5,000 people out of work. Yes—there will be 5,000 job losses on the Welsh Government’s own figures as a result of the agricultural scheme that the hon. Lady’s party’s Government are planning to bring in.

I will just mention one or two other points in the last minute or so I have left. The hon. Member for Ceredigion (Ben Lake) mentioned gigabit connections. I agree with him that we need certainty on where they will be and that there are challenges in rural areas, but I would point out that in 2019 about 11% of properties had a gigabit connection and that has now increased to 69%. The work is going on at pace.

The hon. Member for Merthyr Tydfil and Rhymney (Gerald Jones) made a very good point, as did the hon. Member for Swansea East (Carolyn Harris), about the cost of living. I am not decrying anything the hon. Lady has done, because she does do a lot of good work, but I again point out that this Government have ensured that pensions and benefits have all gone up in line with inflation. The living wage has gone up in line with inflation. There have been extra payments to pensioners and to those on benefits, and also to those in houses with a disability. That is not to say that that solves all problems. The hon. Member for Merthyr Tydfil and Rhymney also rightly drew attention to the fact that some companies are perhaps not behaving as they should on petrol prices. I agree with him. The Government are following up the recommendations of the Competition and Markets Authority to bring forward a scheme to provide extra transparency.

I think I have only about six seconds left, unfortunately; hopefully, a little more time will be allocated to us next time. I apologise to anyone I have not mentioned, although I am certainly not going to forget my hon. Friend the Member for Ynys Môn (Virginia Crosbie), who continues to champion nuclear. I will continue to work with Members of Parliament and many others to ensure that the floating offshore wind industry goes ahead. I also wish Members Dydd gŵyl Dewi hapus I chi gyd—a happy St David’s Day to you all. Diolch yn fawr iawn.