Renegotiation of EU Membership (Devolved Administrations)

Jim Shannon Excerpts

Tuesday 10th November 2015 Westminster Hall

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

I thank the hon. Member for North East Fife (Stephen Gethins) for bringing this important matter to the Chamber for our consideration. My flag, the Union flag, is also flying in Brussels and I am proud of that. I say that for the record.

[Mr MacNeil]

There could be confusion.

[Jim Shannon]

Not for me. There is no confusion whatsoever.

We are aware that at Chatham House this morning the Prime Minister outlined his objectives for renegotiation. I am sure his attempts to renegotiate will be followed closely by hon. Members and many members of the public. How much and what the Prime Minister can achieve is one question; how that will that link up with the regions is the other. We wait with bated breath, as the hon. Member for North East Fife said.

This is a truly monumental stage in our country’s history. The questions are: do we stay in the European Union and what will that relationship look like; or do we leave altogether? I come from a region with a devolved institution, so this debate is of much interest to me, my party and my constituents. I am sure that many of them, and indeed the constituents of colleagues across the Province and the whole UK, are keen to hear what will be said, and to see how the debate will unfold between now and the referendum.

Opinion on the UK’s membership of the EU is divided within Northern Ireland, as it is in most places. There are positives and negatives, and the subject is a hotbed of debate. As a region that has emerged from conflict, Northern Ireland has seen the beneficial aspects of EU membership, with extra funding for peace projects that seek to help with the conflict transformation within Northern Irish society. The EU enabled us to come from conflict to conciliation and from war to peace, so we are grateful for its contribution. However, as in other British regions, there are negative aspects of membership, and we have seen our EU membership devastate traditional industries such as fishing.

Membership has had an indisputable impact on Northern Ireland, for better or for worse, and it is imperative that the Province is taken into account. Giving our devolved institutions—not just in Northern Ireland—a say in the renegotiation process would be a positive step because it would ensure that regionally sensitive issues could be taken into account and that any outcomes of the renegotiation could be tailored to best fit the devolved regions’ needs.

When the Minister replied to my question earlier today about the fishing sector, his response was along the lines that the localised control that we hope to have would come through the common fisheries policy. I respect the Minister, as he knows, but we might disagree about how that will happen on the ground. I represent the village of Portavogie and the hon. Member for South Down (Ms Ritchie), who has just left the Chamber, represents Ardglass and Kilkeel. We are not convinced that the renegotiation on the common fisheries policy will provide the localised control that is necessary. We want local people to have control—we said that earlier and I say it again now. The bureaucracy and red tape, and the loss of fishing boats, jobs and quota, are all having an impact on the fishing industry.

The farming industry is affected as well. I personally live in a rural community, and although the Strangford constituency contains a port, it is also the milk centre of Northern Ireland. We have large numbers of dairymen who look after pedigree herds. We do not see the flexibility from Europe that would make things easier for us.

[Mr MacNeil]

The hon. Gentleman makes a very good point that can be expanded further. If the Prime Minister was serious about European renegotiation, he might have opened some sort of consultation across the country to find out what people wanted. What he really wants is four or five points to spin in a newspaper headline prior to a referendum. There is no depth and no thought in what the Prime Minister is doing. He should have gone to consult the hon. Gentleman’s constituents, whether they be fishermen or dairy farmers.

[Jim Shannon]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for that intervention. Farmers are not convinced that their future is necessarily within Europe, so the Prime Minister has a job to do to convince them of that. I understand that if the money that we put into the EU was taken out again, we could still help the farming communities and give the assistance that is needed. Perhaps that shows that there is a story to be told.

I make the observation that about 13,000 people from outside the United Kingdom, but within the EU, are in receipt of state benefits in Northern Ireland. The proportion is considerably above the average for those born within Northern Ireland and, indeed, the entire United Kingdom. I am not seeking to demonise anyone, but I believe that that is evidence that illustrates that this issue is having just as much impact on Northern Ireland as it is on Essex, Cardiff, Sheffield or Aberdeen. Consequently, I believe that we should have at least a consultative role in the renegotiation of our EU membership.

I hope that hon. Members will take my comments on board and that the Minister will respond. I look forward also to hearing from the shadow Minister, the right hon. Member for Wolverhampton South East (Mr McFadden). The EU is a thorny subject. There may be division on it in the House, but one thing on which we are united is in wanting input into the process.

Human Rights (Eritrea)

Jim Shannon Excerpts

Monday 9th November 2015 Commons Chamber

[Matthew Pennycook]

The hon. Gentleman makes a good point. The methodology of the Danish Government’s report has been questioned. It remains the basis for the Danish Government’s guidance, but our Government should continue to review our own guidance to ensure that we are not refusing asylum to people who are genuinely being persecuted.

Most Eritreans who flee end up in neighbouring countries such as Sudan and Ethiopia, but many make the dangerous trek north towards the Maghreb and the Sinai peninsula in the hope of finding sanctuary in Europe. In doing so, each must evade: capture by their own security forces, who operate a shoot-to-kill policy against those leaving without permission; violence and extortion at the hands of desert gangs; death from dehydration in the Sahara; detention in Libya or Israel; and the lethal risks of crossing the Mediterranean. What dread leads so many, not just adults, but thousands of unaccompanied minors, to risk everything to leave their homeland behind? Words such as “tyranny”, “oppression” and “cruelty” are regularly used to describe conditions within all manner of distasteful regimes across the globe, to the point where sometimes they risk becoming stale with overuse. Yet if anything, those words fall short when applied to Eritrea under the rule of President Isaias Afwerki.

Isaias’s Eritrea is regularly described as “Africa’s North Korea”. That is a hackneyed phrase but in this instance the comparison is pardonable, because ruthless repression is the norm for those living under the rule of this isolated, hermetic and authoritarian regime. It is a far cry from what so many Eritreans fought for, heroically and for decades, and from the hopes of those who supported the struggle for liberation. Instead of democracy and the rule of law, Eritreans are ruled by a culture of fear and absolute obedience: fear that they or their classmates will be sent to carry out national service in a remote location for an unknown number of years; fear that a trusted co-worker who yesterday openly expressed an opinion may not turn up at work tomorrow; fear that a friend arrested arbitrarily will be incarcerated in a vastly overcrowded metal container or a simple hole dug in the desert ground, with little prospect of release; and fear that a disappeared family member might never be seen again.

There have been no elections since 1993, and no independent press since a Government clampdown in 2001. We have seen the pervasive and ongoing restriction of all freedoms—movement, expression and association. People have been subjected to arbitrary arrest, with no fair trials or no trials at all; indefinite compulsory military conscription; forced labour; and torture, including widespread sexual violence against women and girls. That is the situation in Eritrea today.

An extensive and detailed report published in June by the United Nations Commission on Human Rights describes, in horrifying detail, a siege state where control is absolute and where

“systematic, widespread and gross human rights violations”

are being committed. It says that these violations

“may constitute crimes against humanity”.

The crimes taking place today in Eritrea add themselves to old, but not forgotten, and still raw, abuses. Politicians, journalists, faith leaders and business owners who once proudly set out to build a prosperous post-independence future for their country instead find themselves languishing in one of the country’s numerous detention centres—or they have died there, suffering like thousands of ordinary citizens punished for refusing an order, being a member of the wrong religious domination or expressing sympathy with the wrong person.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

I sought the hon. Gentleman’s permission to intervene before this debate. Is he aware that since 2002, when the Government in effect banned all but three denominations, thousands of Christians from unregistered Churches have been arrested and detained indefinitely? Does he share my concern that 13 years later not only are the Eritrean Government continuing this campaign of arrest, but followers of registered religious communities also suffer maltreatment?

--- Later in debate ---

[Jim Shannon]

I want it recorded in Hansard, please, that this year marks the eighth anniversary of the illegal removal of Patriarch Antonios from his position as head of the Eritrean Orthodox Church, the country’s largest religious community. Does the Minister agree that it is unacceptable that the patriarch, an octogenarian with severe diabetes, has been under house arrest since 2007?

[Mr Lidington]

Yes, I do. I hope that the attention the hon. Gentleman has drawn to the case will be noticed in the Eritrean embassy and that there will be some relenting in the position that the Government have adopted hitherto.

At the UN Human Rights Council and in our bilateral discussions, the British Government have set out very clearly to the Eritrean authorities the other steps we believe the country needs to take to improve its human rights record. They include expecting the Government of Eritrea to commit to doing something as apparently straightforward as implementing its own constitution, to release all those who have been arbitrarily detained, and to hold responsible the people who ought to be accountable for various violations and abuses of human rights. We shall continue to press those matters on the Eritrean authorities bilaterally and through our multinational work in Europe and elsewhere.

Alongside the very real concerns shared by everyone in the House this evening, we should not ignore any signs of progress, even small ones. I welcome the fact that Eritrea took part in the UN universal periodic review process at the Human Rights Council and in article 8 dialogue with the EU. Last year, Eritrea ratified the convention against torture and other cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment, and voted in favour of a global moratorium on the use of the death penalty. I also welcome its co-operation in efforts to tackle the human trafficking and smuggling that puts people’s lives at risk. These are indeed small steps, but they are steps in the right direction. The test now is for the Eritrean Government to follow through on their commitments with concrete action to improve the human rights situation on the ground, and the onus is on them to demonstrate progress.

A key part of that action should be to amend Eritrea’s system of indefinite national service. A system without a clear end date drives many young people to leave the country, and this needs to change. I welcome the fact that earlier this year the Eritrean Government made a public pledge to limit national service to 18 months, but Ministers here have been very clear when talking to the Government in Asmara that it is not enough for Eritrean officials or Ministers simply to make that pledge in Europe—the commitment needs to be publicised widely within Eritrea itself, and it should apply to all conscripts and not just those who have been enlisted recently.

As the House knows, the challenges that ordinary Eritreans face are not about human rights alone: they are also about a lack of economic opportunity. Eritrea is facing the effects of the El Niño weather phenomenon, which is now causing severe food insecurity across many parts of Africa. Many young Eritreans leave the country because they have no job, and no hope of finding one, to support themselves and their families. While we will all continue to work assiduously for an improvement in human rights in Eritrea, the fact will remain that if an educated young man in Asmara were to see his human rights situation improve but still be unable to find work to support his family, he might yet feel compelled to leave and put his life in the hands of unscrupulous criminal gangs that profit from people’s desperation.

The hon. Member for Glasgow North (Patrick Grady) asked about the Home Office’s approach to asylum policy. In this country we have a proud history of granting protection to those who need it. All asylum claims are carefully considered on their individual merits in accordance with our international obligations, particularly the 1951 United Nations convention on refugees. The Home Office’s country guidance on handling Eritrean asylum claims was updated in September this year. It recognises that there are indeed persistent human rights challenges in Eritrea but stresses also the need to consider each claim on its individual merits. We take those international responsibilities seriously, and we grant protection to Eritreans in genuine need.

The hon. Member for Greenwich and Woolwich raised a number of specific questions, and I will try to provide him with answers. He asked about the imposition of the expatriate tax. The levy of a tax on nationals living in a foreign country is not in itself illegal—in fact, many countries do it—but the UN resolution made it clear that using coercive measures to try to collect such a tax would be illegal. We have made it clear to the Eritrean embassy in London that coercive measures will not be accepted in the United Kingdom. We urge any such cases to be reported to the relevant police force without delay, so that an investigation can be made and action taken.

The hon. Gentleman asked about increased development assistance to Eritrea, including through the EU’s European development fund 11. That fund is still under discussion, and I completely understand the reasons behind the hon. Gentleman’s concerns. At the same time, however, we face the reality that Eritrea is one of the poorest countries anywhere in the world, and there is scope to help to improve and save the lives of Eritrean people. For example, Eritrea has begun to make some progress towards the health outcomes embodied in the millennium development goals. We should bear that in mind when we consider the pros and cons of a particular aid measure.

Aid does not mean providing funding to the Government of Eritrea. Greater EU assistance could, for example, be provided through United Nations agencies and international non-governmental organisations. I give a commitment that any further Department for International Development assistance will be carefully assessed against Eritrea’s commitment to its partnership principles, including on civil and political rights.

British Property Owners (Cyprus)

Jim Shannon Excerpts

Tuesday 27th October 2015 Westminster Hall

[Andrew Gwynne]

Not only have my constituents done that, but I have done so as their MP. The response we got back was less than satisfactory. I am still taking that up with the various authorities, but my constituents feel that one form of redress is to place on public record the real injustice that they feel they have endured over the past few years.

Mr T.C. said that when he pointed out that the solicitor had stated it was not possible to sue the bank without the European enforcement order having been overturned, the solicitor changed his statement and said it would be possible, but with difficulty. The new date for the hearing in Cyprus was set for early January 2015, but that was postponed until late January, and the case was finally heard in February 2015.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

People from my constituency have had problems similar to those of the hon. Gentleman’s constituents; the problems do not relate just to Cyprus, but to Turkey, too. The majority of them are law-abiding citizens who want to get some property to use, in most cases as a holiday home, but they find the legal system difficult. The hon. Gentleman is outlining the problems of his constituents. Does he feel, as I do, that the British consulate could have given better or more advice on what was best to do in a foreign country where they do not speak the language and are unaware of the legalities?

[Andrew Gwynne]

There is a lot that could have been done differently, and I have some sympathy with what the hon. Gentleman says. That is based on my experience not only with this case, but with several cases that my constituency office has been dealing with. No doubt other Members’ offices are dealing with similar cases, too. I again commend the work of the all-party group and the Minister in trying to bring some kind of resolution to these matters. We are where we are, and it is a far from ideal situation for many of our constituents.

As I said, the case was finally heard in February 2015. In January, Mr T.C.’s brother-in-law was out of the country dealing with a family matter and he told Cubism Law that he had insufficient funds at that time to settle up his latest bill, but would settle at the end of January or early February when Mr T.C. returned to the UK and after the European enforcement order court case in Cyprus was settled. Mr T.C. says Mr McNair replied saying he no longer represented them and again implied that they may not be represented in Cyprus. However, the Cypriot solicitors later assured them that they would be represented.

The European enforcement order was overturned with reservation at the hearing. Mr T.C. feels incredibly let down by the representation he received and believes a lot of the costs were avoidable and totally unnecessary. He has complained through the firm’s complaints procedures and received what he and his brother-in-law considered to be a derisory offer of redress, which they refused, as they did a subsequent offer.

As I said in response to the hon. Member for Stone (Sir William Cash), the matter has been referred to the authorities, including the Law Society and the ombudsman. Mr T.C. feels that he has suffered real injustice in respect of both the property purchase and how his case has subsequently been handled. I appreciate that the Minister can do little to answer my constituent’s specific concerns, but I would be grateful if he could update Members on the progress being made in general on the matter and on what the Government are doing to support Mr T.C. and all constituents caught up in this sorry situation.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Lidington]

What my hon. Friend says is right. I want to refer to that Bill later, but we continue to urge the Cypriot authorities to publish an English-language version of the new law as soon as possible and to make available any guidance that might need to be issued in association with the statute itself. I am sure that the forthcoming meeting of the all-party group with the high commissioner for Cyprus to the United Kingdom will provide a further opportunity for such persuasion to be offered.

We publish information on the high commission’s gov.uk website and, more generally, the FCO publishes a guide entitled “Support for British Nationals Abroad”, which also provides general advice for British citizens who are thinking about buying a property in another country. Last month our consular officials attended “A Place in the Sun”, an exhibition in Birmingham, to talk directly to people considering going to live abroad. The purpose of these initiatives is to help to ensure that our citizens are better informed of the risks and challenges before they take the plunge. For example, we always urge people to take proper professional advice, including legal advice, before buying property.

In some cases, such as the one that the hon. Member for Denton and Reddish has described, part of the problem seems to derive from an alleged failure of the legal adviser to provide advice of a sufficiently high standard. In other cases, sadly, we have come across British citizens who have simply not taken adequate legal advice in the first place. Of course, there are others who, on the face of things, would seem to have been the victims of deliberate misrepresentation. Every case is different, which is why it is difficult to provide a template that will apply equally to every individual case.

[Jim Shannon]

I congratulate the hon. Member for Denton and Reddish (Andrew Gwynne) on securing this debate. Those who take legal advice perhaps anticipate that it will be correct, but sometimes it turns out not to be. Is it possible for the British consulate, in whatever country they are in, to have a list of legal minds—solicitors and barristers—who would have enough knowledge to be able to give advice to people?

Gibraltar and Spain

Jim Shannon Excerpts

Wednesday 14th October 2015 Westminster Hall

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

It is a pleasure to be called to speak in this debate, Mr Betts, and I congratulate the hon. Member for Filton and Bradley Stoke (Jack Lopresti) on securing it. There is interest in Gibraltar across the whole of Europe, but for us in the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, we are aware of what it is like sometimes to be on the edge. We are proud of our Britishness, so it is a pleasure to speak on this issue.

It goes without saying that relations between the United Kingdom and Spain have been strained in recent times. With deliberate intrusions into Gibraltar’s territorial waters by Spanish vessels, it is imperative that Gibraltar’s position as an overseas territory is reiterated and that any Spanish attempt to undermine that position be firmly rebutted. The self-determination of the Gibraltarian people is at the heart of the UN charter, and that self-determination must be the focus moving forward in our relationship with Spain. We want good relations, but we want them to be sensible.

The recent visit by HMS Bulwark to Gibraltar highlights the continued strategic importance of the territory. This comes at a time when Spain continually seeks to undermine the right to self-determination of the Gibraltarians, in addition to recent incursions into Gibraltar’s territorial waters. Worryingly, we have seen continued interference from right at the heart of the Spanish Government. The Spanish Foreign Minister, José Manuel García-Margallo, has called for bilateral talks with the United Kingdom over sovereignty. This is the same Spain who is trying to deny Catalonia independence—it is always interesting to watch what happens with foreign policy in other countries and to compare what one country does at home with what they do elsewhere. It begs the question: just what does Spain understand about self-determination and sovereignty? What exactly are Spain’s aspirations, should such talks ever place, when there is next to no support for changes to sovereignty among the people of Gibraltar?

I support the Foreign Secretary’s comments in his keynote speech to his party conference this year. He warned Spain over its “unlawful and inexcusable” incursions into Gibraltar’s territorial waters—a clear statement that cannot be denied. The Foreign Secretary’s reiteration of the Government’s commitment to self-determination for Gibraltar’s people and the continued defence of the territory are comments that I am sure at least the vast majority of this House will support, if not everyone.

Having said that, the Foreign Secretary also hinted at co-operation with Spain in areas in which further co-operation could be mutually beneficial. It is always good to have relations, including economic relations, but I was reading in the briefing note for this debate that, such is Spain’s interest in developing those relations, it is intending to impose a charge of £43.40 each time someone crosses the border between Gibraltar and Spain. If a business owner frequently has to traverse the border, it would cost them a fortune. All their money would go on charges to get across it.

[David Simpson (Upper Bann) (DUP)]

On my hon. Friend’s point about the threat to charge people leaving or entering Gibraltar, there is also a hint that the Spanish Government will ask taxation officials to investigate those who own properties in the regions of Spain, which will affect British people who own properties there and especially those living in Gibraltar. Again, there will be economic penalties against those who live there.

[Jim Shannon]

I thank my hon. Friend and colleague for that intervention. He clearly outlines, yet again, some policies that the Spanish Government seem to be adopting in relation to those who are British, those who live in Gibraltar and those who have a different passport.

I trust I speak for the whole House when I say that it is in the interests of our United Kingdom to see Gibraltar doing well and that, should further co-operation with Spain, where possible, help Gibraltar to prosper, it is certainly a route to be considered. However, I remind the Foreign Secretary and the House of the countless violations of Gibraltar’s sovereignty by Spain. I suggest that we err on the side of caution when engaging with Spain on this issue, because although co-operation can be positive, we need to be mindful at all times of Spain’s track record in this regard and remember that it is the British people of Gibraltar to whom this Government, this House and this entire nation owe our loyalty.

The Spanish Foreign Minister might have seemed well intentioned in his call for talks, but to contextualise those comments, it is imperative to remember what exactly Mr García-Margallo described Gibraltar as, because it puts things into perspective. In the same speech in which he called for bilateral talks, he said that Gibraltar was the last colony in Europe and that his Government wanted to discuss its decolonisation bilaterally with the United Kingdom. Are those the sort of comments we would expect from someone wanting to build an honest and friendly relationship; or are they, as I suspect, just further confirmation that Spain is willing not only to make incursions into Gibraltar’s territorial waters, but to continue openly to undermine the sovereignty of Gibraltar and its people’s right to self-determination?

We have been to many meetings in which there have been opportunities to support the people and Government of Gibraltar. My right hon. Friend the Member for Belfast North (Mr Dodds) and I have attended quite a few where the issue of fishing rights in territorial waters have been discussed. It is clear that Spain has a policy of incursions into territorial waters, clearly ignoring the views of the people who live in Gibraltar.

In conclusion, I can only hope that the remarks in this debate have struck a chord with the House and the Members here in the Chamber. I trust that the Foreign Secretary and others will share my concerns and those of many others about the Spanish Foreign Minister’s outrageous and wholly unacceptable comments and that they will indeed challenge him on them.

--- Later in debate ---

[Robert Neill]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right. Anyone who visits Gibraltar will meet dozens of people working in Gibraltar who are Spanish. Some of us have had the chance to meet Spanish trade unionists from the Campo and members of Spanish local authorities in the Campo who are very keen to improve relations, but suffer from an entirely different attitude coming from the Government in Madrid. It is therefore important that we in this House make clear our absolute determination to stand by Gibraltar, and use that, on a clear basis of evidence, as a means of persuading the majority of Spaniards that their current Government’s stance is not in their national interest, any more than it is in the interests of the people of Gibraltar, and that there will be real opportunities from a normalisation of those relations.

[Jim Shannon]

Both the hon. Gentleman and I have referred to the financial implications of the difficulties between Spain and Gibraltar, but other things have been concerning us as well, and it is important to put them on the record too. The buzzing of a commercial aeroplane by two Spanish jets in September 2014 was an example of the danger that can be caused. Also relevant is the use of the Spanish navy to harass fishing fleets and people on boats around Gibraltar. Those are just two examples of the use of Spanish military forces against Gibraltar. If Spain is not careful, someone will be either injured or killed as a result.

[Robert Neill]

Absolutely, and my hon. Friend the Member for Filton and Bradley Stoke touched on those matters. When we are dealing with a very limited and constrained airspace, as any of us who have been in and out of Gibraltar know, it is extremely dangerous to behave in the way that the Spanish air force has or as some of Spain’s naval assets have. The irony is that these are two NATO allies. That is the bizarre nature of the impasse at which we currently find ourselves. I hope that the Foreign Office will continue to be vigorous and also ensure that we use our considerable soft power, as it is sometimes termed, in persuading other actors in the European Union and the United Nations—where Spain again, sadly, has mounted an entirely misleading campaign with the decolonisation committee—to set out the facts, to support Gibraltar very clearly and to ensure that there is both physical security, in terms of the integrity—

Child Suicide Bombers

Jim Shannon Excerpts

Tuesday 13th October 2015 Westminster Hall

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

It is a pleasure to be called to speak in this debate, Mr Evans, and I congratulate the hon. Member for Kirkcaldy and Cowdenbeath (Roger Mullin) on securing it and on giving us chance to participate. As I said to you, Mr Evans, and to the shadow Minister and the Minister, I have another Committee to go to, so I apologise for having to leave early. That does not take away from the debate’s importance.

When we think about this matter, we are aware of the horror of what takes place, as the hon. Member for Kirkcaldy and Cowdenbeath has outlined. I hope that examples that he has given and others will explain the true horror that comes from using children as suicide bombers. Unfortunately, as terrible as this is, it is a daily reality for hundreds of vulnerable, impressionable children. Understanding why it happens is simple: children are easy targets—they are easily impressed—and the people using children for these horrific purposes have no capacity whatever to care about that.

[David Simpson (Upper Bann) (DUP)]

I thank my hon. Friend for giving way so early in his speech, and I congratulate the hon. Member for Kirkcaldy and Cowdenbeath (Roger Mullin) on securing this timely debate. The psychological welfare of young people has been mentioned, but how do we deal with the issue of children of Christian families in Syria being taken, with the threat of death to their families if the children do not carry out suicide bombings? I agree entirely that we need to address psychological welfare through education, but how do we deal with that situation?

[Jim Shannon]

I thank my hon. Friend and colleague for that intervention. I wish I had the answer he wants, but I am not capable of giving it to him. As he knows, however, the persecution of Christians is an issue very close to my heart. In last night’s Adjournment debate, I made the point to the hon. Member for Batley and Spen (Jo Cox), who secured it, that 600,000 Christian Syrians have been displaced because of their belief. Many of them have been given the ultimatum “convert or die”, and when their children are kidnapped and used for these nefarious purposes, there is all the more reason to be concerned about the situation. This is a big issue and it needs to be tackled.

Like the hon. Member for Kirkcaldy and Cowdenbeath, I want to put on the record my sympathies for the people who lost their lives in Turkey over the weekend. They were involved in a peaceful protest. Nothing violent was ever supposed to happen, but they were cruelly murdered and injured. We need to put on the record our sympathies for all those who lost their lives.

I lived through the Troubles; I am old enough to remember them and to have participated in uniform as a member of the Ulster Defence Regiment, trying to thwart the activities of evil men and terrorists in Northern Ireland. I am also old enough to recall many of the people who died and the funerals I attended, all because of the evil activities of IRA terrorists. Again, perhaps those murders and bombings—indiscriminate bombings against innocent civilians, who were not involved in any way—give us just a wee insight into what happens.

The use of children in wars is nothing new; it is a tactic adopted by many in conflict. We can all conjure up the dreadful images of the child fighters used in Sierra Leone not so long ago, in other parts of Africa and in Burma, to name but a few. Again, children were used simply because they were children. Using them as suicide bombers is simply the next stage. It is a natural progression and means that a small child can be used to cause maximum devastation, while not sacrificing adult fighters who might be of more use elsewhere. That is what this is really all about: it is plainly and simply selfish. It has nothing to do with glory or anything else that fighters try to tell children. Let us not be under any illusion about that. The people who use children to fight or who strap bombs to their chest have absolutely no remorse. They do not care for or value human life; for them, there can be no consideration or distinction given for the innocence of a child.

In July this year, ISIS revealed the name of a young boy who had been responsible for the deaths of 50 Kurdish fighters in northern Syria. Omar Hadid al-Muhammadi was just 14 years of age. Most of us sitting here today have children far older than that. Think back, Mr Evans, just for a second, to when your own nieces or nephews were just 14. What were they doing? I suppose that, like my own sons, they were staying out a little later with their friends and spending a little less time with their father and mother and a little more time with girls—having girlfriends one week and being heartbroken the next. That is life; that is what happens. At 14, however, they were still easily influenced. They copied their friends and followed the crowd, as teenagers often do in an attempt to fit in, but that is simple stuff; that is all part of growing up.

Being forced to strap a bomb around your chest is not part of growing up—nor is being told, as young Abdul Samat was, that bombs will not kill you but will kill only Americans. Those are the lies that children are fed, and they are brainwashed to believe them. The saddest thing is that they are also brainwashed to believe that killing Americans or British servicemen is the will of Allah, of God, and that they will be rewarded highly for it.

The children are well chosen. They are often highly illiterate and they are fed a diet of anti-western and anti-Afghan Government propaganda until they are prepared to kill, as the hon. Member for Kirkcaldy and Cowdenbeath said in his introduction. As has been mentioned, the boys are also assured that they will miraculously survive the devastation that they cause. How can that be possible? A senior Afghan intelligence officer said:

“The worst part is that these children don’t think that they are killing themselves. They are often given an amulet containing Koranic verses. Mullahs tell them, ‘When this explodes you will survive and God will help you survive the fire. Only the infidels will be killed, you will be saved and your parents will go to paradise’.”

It is very clearly brainwashing, a conditioning of young people’s brains and minds.

At no time at all is it acceptable to use children as suicide bombers, and now that is spreading west—certainly the mindset is, anyway. In June this year, we learned that a 17-year-old British boy from west Yorkshire was responsible for the deaths of 10 troops near Baiji. In typical ISIS fashion, images of the boy emerged, in commemorative style, following the suicide attack. More worrying is the circulation of reports claiming that many people are not forced into carrying out these attacks, but request it. That is quite worrying. For someone who is completely committed to the Islamic State ideology, a hard-core supporter of jihadism and the caliphate, killing themselves in a suicide operation is the greatest honour that they can have. In territories controlled by Islamic State, there are even registers on which people can sign up to commit these attacks. The worrying thing is that they are brainwashed; they are conditioned to feel that it is the right thing to do. How do we address that issue?

The whole thing is glamourised. That is done purposefully to encourage easily impressionable children and young people into making dangerous and misinformed decisions. That is the heart of the issue and unfortunately it is not something that is easily resolved. In recent years, many adult fighters have found it increasingly difficult to hit their targets, and children generally prove to be more successful. For many families, there is little choice but to put their children directly in the line of fire, so to speak, in that they have to send them to schools to receive education but often those prove to be key recruitment areas for Taliban fighters. For many poor families in Afghanistan and Pakistan, a madrassa is often the only option to ensure that their children receive free education and safe lodgings; I mean “safe” in the loosest sense of the word. It is safer in terms of location, in that it is not in the streets, directly in the line of fire, but with the ever increasing threat of recruitment by Taliban fighters, the choices that parents are often faced with are extremely difficult.

Just as the fact that they are children makes no difference, nor does gender. A 10-year-old girl, Spozhmai, got international media attention when she was detained on 6 January 2014 in the southern Helmand province. She said that her brother had tried to make her blow herself up at a police checkpoint.

Perhaps the Minister and the shadow Minister will also mention this matter; I hope that I will be here for their contributions, but I may not be. The question is how we address these issues. I think that one thing that we need to do is, obviously, to have direct contact with those who are of the Muslim religion, because we have seen some indication that people with religious viewpoints are trying to persuade children and young people not to get involved.

We need to address the issue of cyber-contact. We need websites that are set up to combat the attractive scenes that they seem to set in ISIS areas. Last weekend, I heard that a group of people of the Muslim religion had set up a specific base to try to combat that. Are we working alongside such organisations to ensure that we address those issues? We have to do that in Britain as well, because the fact that young people are leaving here and going to fight for ISIS elsewhere in the world is an indication that something is not right. How do we address that issue? We need to speak to these young people. We need to be more influential. We need to be on the websites that they are looking at. We need to be telling them the truth.

In 2011, an eight-year-old girl was killed in central Uruzgan province when she carried remotely controlled explosives to a police checkpoint in a cloth bag—an eight-year-old. I ask the question: what did that eight-year-old really know? Cases of girls carrying out attacks are fewer, but they exist and I fear that they will increase as people are less likely to expect young girls to carry out such attacks. We must do more to protect vulnerable children from being recruited, brainwashed and ultimately tricked into sacrificing themselves for something that they cannot even begin to comprehend.

I congratulate the hon. Member for Kirkcaldy and Cowdenbeath on bringing this issue to the House for consideration. I thank him for giving us a chance to participate, for highlighting such an important issue, for asking for change and for asking us all to use our influence where we can among those who have influence within religious organisations. With regard to websites and whatever cyber-contact there may be, we need to ensure that these people are persuaded that there is not a future in ISIS or in being involved as a suicide bomber and that the repercussions for them and for others are too extreme.

Civilians in Syria

Jim Shannon Excerpts

Monday 12th October 2015 Commons Chamber

[Jo Cox (Batley and Spen) (Lab)]

Every decade or so, the world is tested by a crisis so grave that it breaks the mould: one so horrific and inhumane that the response of politicians to it becomes emblematic of their generation —their moral leadership or cowardice, their resolution or incompetence. It is how history judges us. We have been tested by the second world war, the genocide in Rwanda and the slaughter in Bosnia, and I believe that Syria is our generation’s test. Will we step up to play our part in stopping the abject horror of the Syrian civil war and the spread of the modern-day fascism of ISIS, or will we step to one side, say that it is too complicated, and leave Iran, Russia, Assad and ISIS to turn the country into a graveyard? Whatever we decide will stay with us for ever, and I ask that each of us take that responsibility personally.

To date, neither side of the House has a record to be proud of. Let me start with my party. One of the reasons it is such an honour to be standing on this side of the House is the deep, deep pride that I have in Labour’s internationalist past. It is pride in the thousands of people from our movement who volunteered to fight tyranny alongside their fellow socialists and trade unionists in the Spanish civil war; pride in the leaders of our party—and Robin Cook in particular—who demanded action to stop the slaughter of Bosnian Muslims in Srebrenica and elsewhere, in the face of outrageous intransigence from the then Conservative Government; and pride in the action we led in government to save countless lives in Kosovo and Sierra Leone. In recent years, however, that internationalism has first been distorted, and now risks being jettisoned altogether.

My heart sank as I watched in 2013 when, following President Assad’s use of chemical weapons against civilians, we first voted against a military response and then supported taking military options off the table. Responsibility for the mishandling of that critical vote, which had such far-reaching international implications, falls principally on the Government, but we on these Benches carry some culpability for letting Assad ride roughshod and unchallenged across what should have been a sacrosanct red line. As a result, the international community lost all credibility in our subsequent efforts to stem the spread of, and the suffering in, this horrific civil war. Indeed, our failure to intervene to protect civilians left Assad at liberty to escalate both the scale and the ferocity of his attacks on innocent Syrians in a desperate attempt to cling to power.

I understand, of course, where our reticence comes from. It comes from perhaps the darkest chapter in Labour’s history, when we led this country to war in Iraq. Many Members in all parts of the House have been scarred by that experience, and understandably so; but let us all be clear about the fact that Syria is not Iraq. I opposed the war in Iraq from the beginning because I believed that the risk to civilian lives was too high, and their protection was never the central objective. I knew, as we all knew, that President George Bush was motivated not by the need to protect civilians, but by supposed weapons of mass destruction and a misguided view of the United States’ strategic interest.

I marched against that war, and have marched against many others in my time. Indeed, before I joined the House I was an aid worker for a decade with Oxfam. I have seen at first hand the horror of war and its brutal impact on civilian populations. I have met 10-year-old former child soldiers with memories that no child should have to live with. I have sat down with Afghan elders with battle-weary eyes. I have held the hands of Darfuri women, gang-raped because no one was there to protect them. From that experience, alongside a horror of conflict, I have the knowledge that there are times when the only way to protect civilians requires military force. I might wish that it were not so, but it is. That is why I firmly believe that the Labour Government were right to champion the adoption, in 2005, of a landmark global commitment to the best and most fundamental of our human ideals: the responsibility to protect civilians. I still firmly believe that a legitimate case can be made for intervention on humanitarian grounds when a Government are manifestly unwilling or unable to protect their own civilians. Sovereignty must not constitute a licence to kill with impunity.

The history of Iraq hangs over us all, and it should, but its legacy is awful enough without supplementing it with a new one of ignoring the slaughter in Syria. We must not let it cloud our judgment or allow us to lose sight of our moral compass.

The war in Iraq led to the deaths of thousands upon thousands of civilians. Its legacy must be to make us all put the protection of civilians at the centre of our foreign policy, not to make us sit on the sidelines while hundreds of thousands more are killed and millions flee for their lives.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

I am greatly concerned about the persecution of Christians in Syria. Some 600,000 Christians have been displaced from Syria. They have been given the ultimatum of “convert or die”. Does the hon. Lady feel our Government could do more to put pressure on Assad and parts of ISIS to make sure the persecution of Christians stops?

[Jo Cox]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for his intervention and I will come on to that subject later in the speech.

I shall now turn to the Conservative party’s record. For four years the Government have categorically failed on Syria, and it is not just the UK that should be judged so harshly. The failure to develop and then implement an effective strategy on Syria left this conflict free to create a horrendous European refugee crisis and provide a haven for the barbarism of ISIS to take root, allowed chemical weapons to be used unchallenged and even emboldened Russia. In particular, since the Prime Minister’s mishandling of the 2013 Syria vote, the Government have let this crisis fester on the “too difficult to deal with” pile. There has been no credible strategy, nor courage, nor leadership; instead we have had chaos and incoherence interspersed with the occasional gesture. Indeed, it has been a masterclass in how not to do foreign policy and a stark lesson on what happens when we ignore a crisis of this magnitude. Britain—with our proud tradition in international affairs, our seat on the UN Security Council and one of the best diplomatic, humanitarian and military services in the world—has been a political pygmy in this crisis.

None of us has a proud history in this affair. If we are to put this right, we must put that behind us; we must put party politics to one side and focus on what really matters—the protection of Syrian civilians.

Let me first turn to two of the arguments that do most disservice to a serious discussion of this crisis. First, please let us stop casting the humanitarian, diplomatic and military responses as mutually exclusive alternatives. They are not. If we are serious about addressing this crisis, we need to stop pretending that any one of them offers a panacea and instead weave these strands into a coherent strategy. Secondly, let us not be duped into believing that we need to make a choice between dealing with either Assad or ISIS. On the surface, this may seem appealing, but it is not an option. There is no choice.

We can, and must, address both Assad and ISIS for two principal reasons. First, a sole focus on ISIS will not end the conflict and the threats to our interests. The Assad regime ignited, and continues to drive, the violence in Syria. This year alone, it has killed seven times more civilians than ISIS, so a strategy that only focuses on ISIS will not end the fighting or the threat to regional stability. It will not stem the tide of desperate refugees pouring into Lebanon, Turkey and Jordan, or trying to get into Europe.

Secondly, and crucially, a myopic focus on ISIS will not lead to its defeat. It will not work. Assad is ISIS’s biggest recruiting sergeant, and as long as his tyranny continues, so too will ISIS’s terror. Indeed, a sole focus on ISIS while ignoring the regime’s ongoing bombardment of civilians risks inadvertently strengthening the jihadis’ narrative, which is fuelled by the idea that the west is colluding with Shi’a forces in Tehran and Damascus in a crusade to subjugate Sunni Arabs. That is why, to make good on our past failures, to protect our interests and to live up to our proudest traditions, we need urgently to develop a comprehensive and coherent strategy.

I believe that there are three core elements to such a strategy, none of which is easy and all of which are critical. First, I shall talk about the humanitarian aspect. Four years on from the start of the conflict, there are now 240,000 dead—some credible estimates put the figure at over 330,000—and more than 12 million people are in need of humanitarian assistance. The scale of the human disaster is breathtaking. One area in which the UK Government have shown considerable and commendable leadership is in the regional humanitarian response to the refugee crisis, where we have led the way with the US and our European partners. I now urge the Government to go further.

As the Minister will be aware, the vast majority of Syrian refugees are in the region and those countries are buckling under the strain. The G20 summit in Turkey in November should be marked by the launch of an ambitious plan to meet refugees’ urgent needs, to invest in their education and livelihoods and to support Syria’s neighbours in reconstruction and development. Equally important is the UK’s response to the refugee crisis, which has, to date, been woefully inadequate. Taking 20,000 refugees over five years is simply not good enough; it sends an awful message about how seriously we take civilian protection. Whether it is the response to the drownings in the Mediterranean or our offer to take Syrian refugees, the Prime Minister has been pushed into climbdown after climbdown, embarrassed into action by the humanity of the British public. It is time for him to lead, not follow.

But let us be clear that, no matter what our humanitarian response is to this crisis, it will never be enough. It cannot end the conflict. That is why we also need to invest far more in diplomatic efforts to find a political solution. There are clearly no easy answers, but we can at least be clear on the principles. First, this needs to be a much higher-level conversation. We saw some improvement in that respect at the UN General Assembly last month and in the reopening of the UK’s embassy in Tehran. However, the Foreign Secretary and Prime Minister need to make it clear that ending the conflict in Syria is their No.1 international priority, and to challenge other world leaders to match their commitment.

Secondly, we must not let the urgent need to find a political solution cloud our judgment about what a credible one looks like. If four years of continuous vicious conflict have taught us anything, it is that the current regime is no longer capable of bringing peace and stability to Syria. Whatever its exact complexion and character, and whatever the complex negotiations and compromises needed to get there, a credible political solution has to involve a transition to a new Government that represent all Syrians and that enjoy sufficient trust and legitimacy that all but the delusional fanatics of ISIS will be willing to lower their guns and work together to rebuild their country. Russia’s recent intervention makes the route to a political settlement more complicated but it does not change the necessity for one. A political solution is the only way to end the conflict between the regime and the opposition in Syria. Only when that conflict has ended can ISIS and the handful of other extremists allied to al-Qaeda be defeated.

The third element of the strategy has to be military. While I do not believe that there is a purely military solution to this conflict, I do believe that there will be a military component to any viable solution.

The threat from ISIS—to the region, to the west and to Syrian and Iraqi civilians—is real and growing. I do not believe it to be ethical to watch from the sidelines as Syrian villages are overrun by ISIS fighters who make sex slaves of children, terrorise minority groups and slaughter fellow Muslims. In addition, their call for individual sympathisers to attack westerners anywhere and anytime requires a robust response.

The estimated 20,000 foreign fighters in Syria and Iraq, many of whom hold western passports and can therefore travel freely in Europe, present a real and serious threat to us here in the UK. In addition, ISIS’s spread to new havens in Libya, the Sinai peninsula, Afghanistan, Yemen, Nigeria and elsewhere convinces me of the need for active UK involvement—but only if that is part of a comprehensive strategy to protect civilians and end the conflict.

Human Rights (Saudi Arabia)

Jim Shannon Excerpts

Tuesday 21st July 2015 Westminster Hall

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

I am pleased to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Chope, and I thank the hon. Member for Glasgow South (Stewart McDonald) for proposing the motion and bringing the debate forward for consideration. I also look forward to the responses of the shadow Minister, the hon. Member for Bristol East (Kerry McCarthy), and of the Minister.

I will speak specifically about the persecution of Christians, to which the hon. Member for Rutherglen and Hamilton West (Margaret Ferrier) referred a few minutes ago in an intervention. Many Members know that I have a great passion for the subject and a great wish to speak on behalf of our brothers and sisters, in this case in Saudi Arabia, who are subject to a mind-boggling level of religious persecution. In the background information for the debate, we were given some idea of other abuses as well, such as the number of people executed in the past year and, unbelievably, the fact that Saudi Arabia has employed yet more new executioners. That tells us a wee bit about where the regime is on human rights.

When most people think about Saudi Arabia, the image that comes to mind is of oil-rich sheikhs and beautiful buildings along with desert. As with most stereotypical images, however, there is a lot more than meets the eye. I will speak about the persecuted Church. The desert kingdom is defined by Wahabism, a purist and strict interpretation of Islam. I am the first to advocate freedom for people to practise their religion, as long as it is not harmful to society, but the worrying aspect in this case is that it is forbidden openly to practise other religions. To be a Christian in Saudi Arabia is to face persecution, limited freedom and liberties, and restrictions on what can be done. Apostasy—conversion to another religion—is punishable by death. The kingdom is also widely known to be a breeding ground for radical Islam, with allegations that Saudi funding is a major source of Sunni terrorism in the world.

Behind the idyllic interpretation of Saudi Arabia, therefore, is an underbelly or undercurrent of terrorism and the suppression of liberty and democratic process. Open Doors UK, an organisation that speaks on behalf of Christian people throughout the world, has said that converts from Islam to Christianity risk being killed or abused by their own families. House churches are often raided by the religious police. Only back in September, our national newspapers were publishing stories about the Islamic police in Saudi Arabia storming a Christian prayer meeting, arresting the entire congregation, including women and children, and confiscating their Bibles.

[Angela Crawley (Lanark and Hamilton East) (SNP)]

This week a report published by The Week outlined 12 things that women in Saudi Arabia still cannot do, including going anywhere without a chaperone, driving a car, voting in elections and wearing clothes or make-up to show off their beauty—I could go on. I suspect that a number of female Members would contend those points and would be aghast if we could not all enjoy equality in this nation. Does the hon. Gentleman agree that the situation in Saudi Arabia is a travesty in this day and age?

[Jim Shannon]

I thank the hon. Lady for that intervention, and will put on the record that it is not just hon. Ladies who are offended by that; hon. Gentlemen are equally offended, including me. The fact that women are second-class citizens in Saudi Arabia and suffer all the deprivations that they do annoys and angers me greatly. We are holding this debate on their behalf as well.

At the time of the raid on the Christian meeting that I mentioned, it was reported that it was the latest incident in a swingeing crackdown on minorities in Saudi Arabia by the country’s hard-line commission—wait for this one—for the promotion of virtue and prevention of vice. Have we ever heard the like—the use of such words to describe the deprivation and restriction of religious liberty? The 28 Christians who were arrested were said to have been worshipping at the home of an Indian national in the eastern city Khafji when the police entered the building and took them into custody. They have not been seen or heard from since, and human rights groups are concerned about their whereabouts.

I know this is short notice for the Minister, but I ask him for a response on the case of those 28 Christians. I doubt it will be possible for him to give one today, but perhaps at a point in the future he will give the House some idea of what is happening to those people, who seem to have disappeared into the ether of Saudi Arabia, as their whereabouts are unknown.

Nina Shea, director of the Washington-based Hudson Institute’s Centre for Religious Freedom, told foxnews.com:

“Saudi Arabia is continuing the religious cleansing that has always been its official policy…It is the only nation state in the world with the official policy of banning all churches. This is enforced even though there are over two million Christian foreign workers in that country. Those victimized are typically poor, from Asian and African countries with weak governments.”

If we want to sum the situation up, we can do so in five words—all in a day’s tyranny. That is the situation for Christian people, and in Saudi Arabia it is indeed all in a day’s tyranny.

Voice of the Persecuted has said that in March Saudi Arabia’s top Muslim cleric called for the destruction of all churches in the Arabian peninsula, after legislators next door in Kuwait moved to pass laws banning the construction of religious sites associated with Christianity. Arabic media have reported that, when speaking to a delegation in Kuwait, the grand mufti of Saudi Arabia, Sheikh Abdul Aziz bin Abdullah—my pronunciation of that was not bad going for an Ulster Scot—said the destruction of churches was absolutely necessary and is required by Islamic law. Where is the freedom and religious liberty for those practising Christianity?

Abdullah is considered to be the highest official of religious law in the Sunni Muslim kingdom. He also serves as the head of the supreme council of ulema, which is the council of Islamic scholars, and of the standing committee for scientific research and issuing of fatwas. According to Arabian Business, a news site, Osama al-Munawar, a Kuwaiti Member of Parliament, has announced a plan to submit a draft law calling for the removal of all churches in the country. Al-Munawar has since clarified that that law would apply only to new churches, and that old ones would be allowed to stay standing. If the churches are allowed to stay standing, give people the religious liberty to practise their religious beliefs.

These issues are very worrying when we consider how little it takes to break such strict laws. It seems clear that we must exert what influence we have with Saudi Arabia to ensure that those who want to practise Christianity can do so without fear. In his opening remarks, the hon. Member for Glasgow South referred to contracts we have with Saudi Arabia; I will come to that in a few minutes, but it is important to note that given our business and economic contacts with Saudi Arabia we should have discussions and make efforts on behalf of Christian minorities.

[Mr Gregory Campbell]

Does my hon. Friend agree that in every context of commerce, including work by private businesses supported by our national Government, every opportunity should be taken to raise with the Government of Saudi Arabia matters such as the persecution of Christians and other minorities, and the persecution of women?

[Jim Shannon]

I totally agree with my hon. Friend. As the Minister and others who were Members in the previous Parliament will know, back in 2013 the Democratic Unionist party took the opportunity of one of our Opposition day debates to raise the issue of the religious persecution of Christians on the Floor of the House. As a result of that debate, we hoped that Ministers in the Foreign and Commonwealth Office would use their influence wherever they could across the world when religious liberty, religious minorities and human rights were being abused by countries or by dictators. I wholeheartedly support what my hon. Friend said. We need our Government, and the Minister in particular, to take a more proactive stance.

[Stewart McDonald]

We hear all this talk about raising the issues at the senior levels of Government, but does the hon. Gentleman agree that it is perhaps time to take more action, and, like Sweden, to start ending memorandums of understanding, looking at an arms embargo and perhaps even looking at the withdrawal of ambassadors? I am not seeing any progress whatever.

--- Later in debate ---

[Jim Shannon]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for that. We should consider the idea he has put forward, and the Minister will respond to his point. I noted from the Library’s background note for the debate that Sweden has taken that proactive stance and decided to stop arms sales. We have to consider all those steps. We want to be an economic ally of Saudi Arabia and trade with it—we cannot deny that—but we also want to influence what is happening there. If we are not having the sort of influence we wish to—at this point in time I do not see that we are—perhaps we need to look at other ways of having that influence.

The world deplores the scenario in North Korea, but we seem to tolerate the same scenario in Saudi Arabia with barely a mention. Mention North Korea and everyone’s hackles will rise; we should be equally angry about the persecution of Christians in Saudi Arabia. Reading a report from someone who had been out there opened my eyes. I will read from it to give Members an idea of what it is like to be a Christian there:

“Visiting persecuted Christians in Pakistan and Saudi Arabia, it’s the silence that strikes me most. British nurses hide crucifixes from view; Filipino nurses furtively read banned Christmas catalogues; Christian physicians whisper their weekend plans, referring to church services as ‘gatherings’ at diplomatic compounds;”—

because they have to try to hide what they are doing and when—

“Christian Pakistani matrons scheduling the nursing rota risk false accusations of blasphemy—charges which could result in death.”

That is everyday life in Saudi Arabia for Christian people.

I will quote something connected to the sense that we are looking the other way and leave the idea with Members as a thoughtful submission. It is attributed to the German Jewish essayist Kurt Tucholsky—I am doing well with the names today:

“A country is not only what it does—it is also what it tolerates.”

Let us think about those words very clearly. In Saudi Arabia there is no toleration for Christian minorities, for those with different views or for those who do not conform to its particular rules and regulations.

What are we tolerating in our relationship with Saudi Arabia? I have great respect for the Minister, but I must put this to him: how can we do better? How can we ensure that our nurses and teachers do not fear discussing church or asking for time off to worship their God in the way that He has ordained they should? What diplomatic pressure can be brought to bear to bring change? If the answer is that we have no leverage and can apply no pressure, we must ask ourselves why that is the case—that goes back to the point made by the hon. Member for Glasgow South both in his opening remarks and in his intervention.

There are more than 200 joint ventures between British and Saudi companies, worth $17.5 billion. Saudi Arabia is the United Kingdom’s primary trading partner in the middle east, and even our Prime Minister travelled to extend sympathy at the death of King Abdullah. I do not for a second say that he should not have done that, but I do ask, given the special relationship that we seem to have, what we are doing for the Christian people and other minorities. Have we no leverage despite that relationship? Some tough questions must be asked about whether we can do more to halt the persecution of Christians, and especially of British Christians, in Saudi Arabia.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Ellwood]

Absolutely; we can certainly put that forward. I would be delighted to make that request.

Religious tolerance and the situation of Christian and other minority religions have been raised in the debate. The British Government strongly support the right to freedom of religion or belief, which is restricted in Saudi Arabia. As the hon. Member for Strangford (Jim Shannon) is aware, our views on the subject are well known. We must recognise that the restrictions on freedom of religion or belief in Saudi Arabia reflect widely held conservative social values in Saudi society. The key to increasing freedom is to focus on tolerance. We must work with Saudi Arabia to identify areas in which different faiths can work together, foster trust and build slowly in more challenging areas.

[Jim Shannon]

I referred in my speech to the 28 Christians who were arrested. Men, women and children have disappeared into the ether of Saudi Arabian society and into the prison system. I know that the Minister is unable to respond today, and I respect that, but could he respond directly to me, and perhaps to other hon. Members present in the Chamber?

[Mr Ellwood]

I pay tribute to the hon. Gentleman for the work that he has done in this area. He has raised such issues with regard to a number of arenas, not only Saudi Arabia. I do not have the information he seeks at hand, but I will certainly write to him with more details, if I may.

The hon. Member for Islington North raised the important issue of migrant rights. He also touched on Qatar, which I visited recently. I will not digress now, but I will write to him on that point; we have seen progress, in which Britain has been very much involved.

As the hon. Gentleman will be aware, the amnesty for foreign workers to regularise their status in Saudi Arabia came into affect in 2013. It led to many people—1.5 million, I think—leaving the country. The Saudi Government have now agreed updated bilateral arrangements with a number of labour-supplying countries for legalised workers to remain in Saudi Arabia. We also expect to see more accurate labour records, and recent legal reforms will improve the basic rights of migrant employees. Legislation requires workers to be paid at least monthly and have access to their own identity documents, and domestic workers to have at least nine hours’ rest per day and one day off per week. We welcome any improvement in the legal position of migrant workers. Those are steps in the right direction, but clearly there is more work to be done.

The hon. Member for Bristol East raised the question of the imprisoned princesses. I will write to her with more details, but we have received no further reports since King Salman’s accession to the throne in January.

Export licences are another an important subject, given the closeness we have to Saudi Arabia. I make it absolutely clear that we have a robust mechanism in the UK. All exports of arms and controlled military goods are assessed on a case by case basis against the consolidated EU exporting licensing criteria. Concerns about excessive use of force and arbitrary arrest by police and security forces are considered extremely carefully.

In answer to the question about what progress has actually been made, I put my hand up and say that of course serious barriers remain and we want to see a huge amount of progress. The Saudi Arabian Government have confirmed that women will now be able to stand and vote for the first time in municipal elections, which will take place in December 2015. There are already women on the Shura Council, and we understand that 80 women will be standing, across 285 municipalities. There is obviously a long way to go, and we continue to engage with the Saudi authorities, but that is an example of real progress.

Saudi Arabia has also ratified the convention against torture, but, as has been articulated today, allegations of torture continue to be heard, particularly from political activists. We are pressing to work together to implement the requirements of international obligations, particularly human rights conventions. The Saudi Government have recently allowed the quasi-independent body the National Society for Human Rights free access to all prisons and prisoners to assess claims of torture and abuse. That needs to be placed in its context, which includes Raif Badawi.

The Saudi Ministry of Justice continues to implement an ambitious $1.6 billion reform programme. More than $1.2 billion has been spent on new courthouses, technology and judicial training. Special courts in family, commercial and labour law are planned. The appeal court and new supreme court have increased access to justice, and a new arbitration department has been formed to reduce the number of trial cases. Nevertheless, the legal system continues to suffer long delays in bringing defendants to court, and delays due to the lack of codification of case law. We have raised our concerns about that, and there are signs that trials are becoming more transparent, with the media and diplomatic community being given access to some trials. We also expect people to be brought to trial more quickly as the number of judges increases.

We have a strong and important relationship with a key ally in the region. I thank right hon. and hon. Members for this thought-provoking debate. I apologise for the fact that I have not been able to go into all the details in the answers that I have given today, but I will certainly write to colleagues with a more informative response.

I wish to make it clear that human rights are at the heart of UK foreign policy. Asthe Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs has stated:

“It is in the UK’s national interest to help our international partners promote, protect and enjoy human rights; and to find effective ways to tackle violations wherever they occur.”

We have concerns about the human rights situation in Saudi Arabia, which we will continue to raise, but we also recognise that progress has been made. Clearly, more needs to be done. Our friendship with Saudi Arabia affords frank and open dialogue, and we continue to use our close relationship to ensure that the incremental process we are seeing is only the beginning.

Iran: Nuclear Deal

Jim Shannon Excerpts

Wednesday 15th July 2015 Commons Chamber

[Mr Hammond]

As I have said before, I think that this is about contact: it is about travel, about trade and about investment; it is about allowing small and medium-sized Iranian businesses to start exporting again. I cannot adequately express how important I think it will be that the United States is to remove restrictions on the import of Iranian foodstuffs and carpets. Those may sound like small measures, but they will affect many thousands of entrepreneurs across Iran and change their prospects significantly.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

In his statement, the Foreign Secretary said that there must be something in this for the Iranian people. Iran has the most appalling record of human rights abuses, particularly the targeting of women with acid attacks and the deliberate persecution of Christians. What has the Foreign Secretary been able to do about that?

[Mr Hammond]

Our negotiations have been about the nuclear deal. We have deliberately not widened them to make them into a negotiation about Iran’s activities in the region, which we view negatively, or its human rights record, which we also view negatively. As I have said in the House many times before, the only way in which we can have any influence over what people do is to engage with them. By re-engaging, as this agreement will allow us to do, we will have a greater ability to influence Iran’s behaviour in the future, and as I said in my statement, we will continue to target Iran’s appalling human rights record.

UN Independent Commission of Inquiry (Gaza)

Jim Shannon Excerpts

Wednesday 8th July 2015 Westminster Hall

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

I thank the hon. Member for Halifax (Holly Lynch) for securing this debate. I express regret and sympathy for all those who have lost their lives as a result of the conflict in Gaza.

From the outset, I call into question the usefulness of a report that does not engage the interested parties. Why can America and Great Britain manage to engage with the Israelis, yet the UN, which is supposedly an independent body, cannot? I can well understand why the Israelis made the decision not to engage: the outcome was a foregone conclusion.

Having lived through the troubles in Northern Ireland and all too often seen one-sided, biased reporting, I feel that I am more than equipped to recognise it at play, and I believe that there are numerous examples in the report. I do not have time to go into them because of the time restriction, but there certainly is a difference between Palestinian and Israeli losses.

In the background information that I read before the debate, I found some interesting submissions. Colonel Richard Kemp, who is British, makes it clear that he has no affiliation with the Israelis, paid or otherwise, yet calls the report into question:

“In my opinion the actions taken by the IDF were necessary to defend the people of Israel from the ongoing, intensive and lethal attacks by Hamas and other groups in Gaza. It is the inalienable duty of every government to use its armed forces to protect its citizens and its terrain from external attack…As the Gaza Strip is effectively a separate state, outside of Israeli control, these actions amounted to an attack by a foreign country against Israeli territory…I know of no other realistic and effective means of suppressing an aggressor’s missile fire than the methods used by the IDF, namely precision air and artillery strikes against the command and control structures”.

It is clear that Israeli action is necessary to prevent the re-armament that will lead to further attacks by Hamas and other groups. It should also be noted that Egypt takes similar preventive action against Gaza. From the sources I am aware of, Hamas and Islamic Jihad used buildings and vehicles protected under the laws of armed conflict, including schools, hospitals, UN buildings, mosques and ambulances. Use of such facilities for military purposes constitutes a war crime.

If we genuinely want to contribute to peace and to improve human rights for the people of Gaza and Israel, we must have the courage to reject the UN Human Rights Council’s persistent and discriminatory anti-Israel programme and produce a balanced and fair report into these tragic events. I hope that the Government can do just that.

Srebrenica Genocide (20th Anniversary)

Jim Shannon Excerpts

Tuesday 7th July 2015 Westminster Hall

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

I congratulate the hon. Member for Beckenham (Bob Stewart) on securing this debate and I salute his leadership in Bosnia. Along with many others in the House, I am deeply impressed by what he did in his time in command. It would be hard not to be moved by the experiences he shared in his speech and by some of the things that have happened since. I thank him for that.

We remember those who were murdered in July 1995—more than 8,000 Bosniaks, mainly men and boys, in and around the town of Srebrenica during the Bosnian war. The killing was perpetrated by units of the Army of the Republika Srpska—the VRS—under the command of General Ratko Mladic. The former Secretary-General of the United Nations, Kofi Annan, described the mass murder as the worst crime on European soil since the second world war. That gives an idea of the magnitude and horror of what took place.

I am sure that we all remember the coverage from 1995—it would be hard not to—and, as we were reminded by the first speech, it was shocking in its intensity. I can vividly recall not being able to believe or understand the senseless genocide that was taking place. I was looking at the TV and thinking, “Is this happening, or is it unreal?” Yes, it was unreal, but it was happening in front of our modern society’s eyes.

The paramilitary unit from Serbia was known as the Scorpions. The hon. Member for Cleethorpes (Martin Vickers) used biblical language to describe them as a lion looking for whom to devour. That is what they were doing. They could have called themselves other names, but they chose the Scorpions, and they were known for their evil, wicked depravity and murderous thoughts. Officially, they were part of the Serbian Interior Ministry until 1991, and they participated in the massacre, along with several hundred Greek volunteers.

In January, the conviction of five men from the former Yugoslavia was upheld, which was welcome news to all those who remember the sheer horror of these events. However, more than five men were involved, and more than enough time has now passed by this, the 20th anniversary, for action to have been taken. We all believe it is time that those involved—from inside and outside Serbia—were held accountable.

In 2004, in a unanimous ruling in the case of Prosecutor v. Krstic, the appeals chamber of the International Criminal Tribunal for the Former Yugoslavia, which is located in The Hague, ruled that the massacre of the enclave’s male inhabitants constituted genocide—a crime under international law. The evidence of the forcible transfer of between 25,000 and 30,000 Bosniak women, children and elderly people that accompanied the massacre was found to confirm the genocidal intent of the members of the VRS main staff who orchestrated the massacre and who need to be held accountable.

In 2005, in a message to the 10th anniversary commemoration of the genocide, the Secretary-General of the United Nations noted that, although blame lay first and foremost with those who planned and carried out the massacre and those who assisted and harboured them, the powers with the ability to respond had failed to do so adequately. He said that the UN had made serious errors of judgment and that the tragedy of Srebrenica would haunt its history forever, and that is clearly the case.

Serbia and Montenegro was cleared of direct responsibility for, or complicity in, the massacre, but it was found responsible for not doing enough to prevent it and for not prosecuting those responsible, in breach of the genocide convention. The preliminary list of people missing or killed in Srebrenica, which was compiled by the Bosnian Federal Commission of Missing Persons, contains 8,373 names. As of July 2012, 6,838 genocide victims had been identified through DNA analysis of body parts recovered from mass graves. As of July 2013, 6,066 victims had been buried at the memorial centre in Potocari. Almost 1,500 victims have still not been identified. Let me put that into perspective. As the hon. Member for Beckenham will know, approximately 3,000 people were killed over a 30-year terrorist campaign in Northern Ireland. In three days, almost three times that number were killed in Srebrenica.

There is a lesson that has been taught so many times, but that I fear we are not learning: we must take action before things reach this stage. An apology for a massacre is not enough. There must be a determination that we never allow these things to happen again. There must be not just words, but deeds. There is so much happening in the world that we need to act on, and it is my firm belief that action must be taken, lest our children stand in this place in 20 years’ time lamenting the fact that we allowed the actions of ISIS, among others, to happen. That is for another debate and another day, but it is not disrespectful to the memory of the men we are talking about to plead for us to learn from the inaction we saw and to take action when needed.

I was proud to be one of the hundreds of parliamentarians who signed the Remembering Srebrenica book of pledges, and I will be prouder still to be remembered as a parliamentarian, in a House of parliamentarians, who learned the lesson taught by atrocities and who honoured the memories of those who so senselessly lost their lives by doing all in my power to prevent a repeat of such atrocities.

[Mr Gregory Campbell (East Londonderry) (DUP)]

My hon. Friend talks about learning lessons. Does he agree that those of us who have lost loved ones in more normal circumstances cannot even begin to understand the pain and anguish felt by those who, 20 years later, still do not have the remains of their loved ones and who cannot have a burial so that they can begin to grieve properly? We have seen that in Northern Ireland over 40 years, but the scale in this case is unimaginable, and we need to do what we can to resolve the issue.

[Jim Shannon]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right. It is impossible to gauge the unfathomable enormity of what took place. In Northern Ireland, people disappeared, and some of the bodies have not been accounted for. We feel for their families. However, if we magnify that a thousandfold, we get a sense of what these things mean in Bosnia.

In conclusion and as this important anniversary approaches, I hope that all political leaders in Bosnia and Herzegovina, and in the wider region, will focus not on the politics, but on the human tragedy of not just Srebrenica, but the war as a whole, and will take forward reconciliation with greater urgency. There can be no more fitting tribute to the innocent victims of war than that we remember each and every one of them today and that the Government do their best to make changes and to hold people to account. Twenty years after these events, we need to hold those responsible accountable. We all know, of course, that they will be held accountable in the next world and that they will have to come before a judgment seat to answer for what they have done, but I would like to see them get their just rewards in this world before they reach the next one.

[Several hon. Members]

rose—