Ukraine

John Whittingdale Excerpts

Wednesday 20th December 2017 Westminster Hall

[Mr John Whittingdale (Maldon) (Con)]

I beg to move,

That this House has considered the situation in Ukraine.

I thank you, Mrs Gillan, and Mr Speaker for this opportunity to debate the situation in Ukraine. I also thank the Minister for Europe and the Americas for coming to respond to the debate, and my colleagues from the all-party parliamentary group.

Some people might ask, “Why should we be interested in what is happening in Ukraine?” Some might draw a comparison to what Chamberlain said about Czechoslovakia, that it is a “far away country” about which we know little. If they do, they make the same mistake Chamberlain made. Ukraine matters to us. It is a country in mainland Europe whose territory has been violated by an aggressive neighbour, and one that is on the frontline of what is becoming a new cold war.

I first visited Ukraine in 2008 with the all-party group, including, I think, the hon. Member for Keighley (John Grogan). At that time, Ukraine was under the leadership of President Yanukovych, a corrupt leader who was inclined toward Russia, but who nevertheless, at the time, was committed to Ukraine signing an association agreement with the European Union as an eastern partnership country. As is well known, in November 2013, President Yanukovych was instructed by Putin to reverse that position and drop the policy. Within a few weeks, Independence Square in Kiev was filled with thousands of protesters, the beginning of what was known as Euromaidan. Two months later, the shooting began. Over 100 people were killed, and they are known as the heavenly heroes.

The Revolution of Dignity led to the overthrow of Yanukovych and the installation of a new Government, but it also provided the pretext for Russia’s annexation of Crimea and its stepping up of support for separatist movements in Donbass. Doing so was a clear violation of the Budapest memorandum, signed by America, Russia and this country in December 1994, which guaranteed the territorial integrity of Ukraine in return for its agreement to give up its nuclear arsenal, at that time the third largest in the world. For that reason alone, I believe that we in the UK have a responsibility to Ukraine.

[John Howell (Henley) (Con)]

What my right hon. Friend is saying makes perfect sense, particularly his description of the Russians’ involvement. Those of us who serve on the Council of Europe are determined that Russia’s bid to come back to the Council should be accompanied by concessions. The biggest concession I want to see is its removal from Donbass. Does he agree with that?

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[Mr Whittingdale]

I agree very much with my hon. Friend. I want to see the entire territorial integrity of Ukraine restored, including not just Donbass but Crimea. In the immediate future, I believe he is right and I am delighted to hear of his work on this question in the Council of Europe. We need to put maximum pressure on Russia to withdraw its support from the terrorists in east Ukraine, and I will say more about that.

As well as our obligation through our signature on the Budapest memorandum, we also have a strong interest in supporting a country in mainland Europe that, as I have said, has had part of its territory occupied, in which a conflict continues between the Government and pro-Russian separatist groups, armed, supplied, led and reinforced by Russia. The evidence of Russian involvement is overwhelming. We have seen the so-called humanitarian convoys coming from Russia into east Ukraine: white lorries that appear to contain no humanitarian assistance, but which mysteriously lead to a sudden increase in the amount of shelling and gunfire shortly after their arrival. Of course, we also saw an outrageous act, the shooting down of the Malaysian airliner MH17, in which 298 people died. The latest evidence of the telephone intercepts between the separatist leader and a character called “Dolphin” suggest that he was indeed a Russian general.

Just over two weeks ago, I visited Donbass with my hon. Friends the Members for Huntingdon (Mr Djanogly) and for Isle of Wight (Mr Seely). I particularly thank my opposite numbers, the co-chairmen of the UK friendship group in the Ukrainian Parliament, Svitlana Zalishchuk and Alex Ryabchyn, who organised the visit and accompanied us throughout it. I also thank the Ukrainian ambassador, Her Excellency Natalia Galibarenko, and Denys Sienik from the Ukrainian embassy, who helped us.

It was an extremely valuable, informative and often moving visit. We went to Avdiivka, the biggest coke-producing plant in Europe, built by the Soviets to supply the Mariupol steelworks. It was subject to heavy shelling during the conflict and still sees occasional shelling, but despite that, it is operating at something like one third of its original capacity. I pay tribute to the people there who continue to work under such pressure.

We also met students from a language school, who had had to move out of their homes—mainly in Donetsk—which are now under occupation. They are attending the language school in Bakhmut, outside the occupied area, but most of them have relatives left in Donetsk. We heard from one young girl whose grandmother is still living in Donetsk, and whose mother felt she could not leave her and so stays in Donetsk. The girl goes to visit them, but in doing so she has to go through checkpoints, and she described the intimidatory nature of that experience. We went to visit the rehabilitation unit for soldiers who had been injured or wounded in the conflict, and we saw the work done by a small team of dedicated doctors to help them with both mental and physical wounds incurred as a result of participating.

Unlike some of the frozen conflicts across Europe for which Russia is responsible such as those in South Ossetia, Abkhazia or Transnistria, this conflict is not frozen but ongoing. Since its outbreak, over 10,000 people have died and about 1.5 million people have been displaced. Two days ago, Russian troops fired Grad multiple launch rocket systems on Novoluhansk. Over the last week, four Ukrainian servicemen have been killed and nine have been wounded. The UN has said that the humanitarian crisis in east Ukraine is

“worse than it’s ever been”,

and has called for support for the humanitarian response plan, which amounts to $187 million, to help 2.3 million people in east Ukraine.

[David Simpson (Upper Bann) (DUP)]

I congratulate the right hon. Gentleman on securing this debate. He has mentioned young people and humanitarian matters. Could he give us insight into the circumstances surrounding health and hospital provision for the people of Ukraine?

[Mr Whittingdale]

The military hospital we visited is one of the main ones in Dnipro, and it is under tremendous stress. The people living in occupied east Ukraine are struggling to survive, in terms of both basic necessities like healthcare, which the hon. Gentleman mentioned, and things such as pension payments. The Ukrainian Government are attempting still to provide support to those people, but in terribly difficult circumstances, which is contributing to the humanitarian crisis.

The UK gives support to Ukraine; I understand it is in the order of £42 million, from the Foreign and Commonwealth Office and the Department for International Development, but to be honest it is not enough. I hope that we look again at increasing our financial aid, particularly for humanitarian purposes.

We also need to step up the diplomatic effort; the Foreign Secretary is going to Moscow this weekend, and I know that my right hon. Friend the Minister has only recently returned from Moscow. We first need to urge Russia to abide by the terms of the Minsk II agreement; I very much echo what my hon. Friend the Member for Henley (John Howell) said about that. We need to allow proper monitoring by the Organisation for Security and Co-operation in Europe and the removal of all foreign-armed formations, military equipment and mercenaries, as set out in Minsk II.

In particular, I hope my right hon. Friend the Minister will condemn Russia’s recent decision to withdraw from the Joint Centre for Control and Coordination, which is a direct violation of Minsk II and will also increase the risk to the OSCE monitors there. I hope my right hon. Friend will raise that, or will ask the Foreign Secretary to raise it during his visit. As I said, I believe that Ukraine deserves our support, but that support has to be accompanied by further reform. It is a sad truth that, as in most post-Soviet countries, corruption is still endemic in Ukraine, although I recognise that Ukraine is only a 25-year-old state.

[Mr Bob Seely (Isle of Wight) (Con)]

My right hon. Friend is right to say that corruption in Ukraine is endemic. However, to give that some context, it is also true that corruption has been a deliberate policy of the Russian state, in order to hollow out the Ukrainian state and to undermine and subvert Ukrainian statehood. Does he agree that that is an important point to understand?

[Mr Whittingdale]

That is a very important point and I absolutely agree with my hon. Friend. He is more knowledgeable than I on Russian hybrid warfare, and this is undoubtedly a component. I am sure he will say a little more about that in his contribution.

While there are still big problems, we should recognise that progress has been made. In the last three or four years, the Ukrainian Government have set up three institutions to tackle corruption—the National Anti-Corruption Bureau of Ukraine, the Specialized Anti-Corruption Prosecutor’s Office and the National Agency for Prevention of Corruption—which have brought something like 319 proceedings.

The Ukrainian Government have also brought in an advanced electronic system for the disclosure of assets, income and expenditure of public officials and politicians, which has led to 910,000 declarations from top officials. I have to say that I have seen the declaration requirements on Ukrainian MPs, and they go considerably further than the declaration requirements on Members of this House. There have also been reforms to public procurement.

However, while progress is being made, there are worrying signs that it is now stalling. While proceedings have been brought against public officials, none have really come to a conclusion; indeed, most are stuck somewhere in the judicial system. An anti-corruption court, which is an essential part of the reform package, has yet to be put in place. We heard on our visit to a non-governmental organisation, Reanimation Package of Reforms, that something like 25% of the recent appointments to the Supreme Court, which has been newly established with a fresh set of judges, failed the integrity test.

There is huge frustration among the people of Ukraine that no one has really been brought to justice, either for the crimes committed during the Maidan or for the massive theft of public assets that has been going on for many years. Most recently, and perhaps most worryingly, Reanimation Package of Reforms has identified the fact that the National Anti-Corruption Bureau has been attacked in Parliament, with attempts to curtail its operation through legislation. Its operations have also been disrupted by the Ukrainian security services, which are probably acting on behalf of the Government.

Those are worrying signs, and we must press the Ukrainian Government to continue with their reform package. That is essential if the Government are to re-establish confidence in Ukraine, which will unlock the investment that will give it an economically viable future.

[Stephen Pound (Ealing North) (Lab)]

I am reluctant to interrupt the right hon. Gentleman’s flow; he speaks with such authority that he commands the respect of the Chamber. In terms of our bilateral relationship on anti-corruption and good governance, does the right hon. Gentleman agree that a great deal of the UK’s credibility at the moment comes from our being a member of the EU? If, possibly, we withdraw from the EU, how will we be able to maintain that relationship? What does he think a post-Brexit bilateral relationship between Ukraine and the UK might look like?

[Mr Whittingdale]

As the hon. Gentleman knows, I do not share his views about our membership of the EU. The requirement is on all the western nations. The truth is that the biggest contributor to the future stability of Ukraine in both military and financial assistance is likely to be the United States of America. Canada, too, is playing an extremely important role. Yes, the EU is involved, but a country does not have to be a member of the EU to want to help Ukraine. I hope we will put together assistance packages in order to do that, and that is almost bound to be led by America. That should apply during our remaining time in the EU and also when we have left.

There is an interesting proposal from the Lithuanian Parliament, and I met Mr Andrius Kubilius, the former Prime Minister of Lithuania, to discuss it. It proposes what is essentially a new Marshall plan—a massive investment package—but it can only be contemplated if it is accompanied by the kind of reforms that I think everybody who looks at Ukraine, and its people, most of all, want to see.

[Mr Gregory Campbell (East Londonderry) (DUP)]

As the right hon. Gentleman is discussing a new Marshall plan for the region, does he agree that anti-corruption measures must take priority and precedence before significant and hopefully worthwhile investment takes place? We need a climate of which we are reasonably assured, in so far as anyone can be, that the anti-corruption measures have been successful.

[Mr Whittingdale]

I completely agree with the hon. Gentleman. If we are to expect the international community, particularly the business community, to invest in Ukraine, it has to have guarantees that the system is fair, that it will secure a return on its investments, that it will not be suddenly be hit by mysterious taxes that have been invented overnight or that it will have to bribe public officials to get contracts. Those things have to be put right, and that is widely recognised.

The only other issue on which my right hon. Friend the Minister, who I know is aware of this, can help is the particular concern expressed by Ukrainians about the difficulty they experience obtaining visas to visit this country. I have just sent my right hon. Friend a letter signed by 21 Members of the Ukrainian Parliament that sets out their concern that the refusal rate for visa applications to come to the UK has risen over the last three years from 9% to 25% with no real explanation. Not only are a lot of visas refused, in cases where they have been granted they have actually been issued after the flight to bring the applicant to this country has left, requiring them to rebook at considerable expense.

The Ukrainians believe that part of the reason for that is that Ukrainian visa applications are dealt with in Warsaw. Something is clearly going wrong. I recognise that this is not the direct responsibility of my right hon. Friend, and I know that he has talked to the Ukrainian Parliament and Government about this, but I urge him to talk to his and my colleague in the Home Office who is responsible. Ukraine is worth supporting.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

For the record, does the right hon. Gentleman recognise that, during the Russian onslaught in eastern Ukraine, many Christian churches have been destroyed, Baptist pastors have gone missing, never to be seen again, and people have been displaced? When it comes to human rights, does he accept and agree that we need to see a softening of Russian attitudes towards those with religious beliefs, who have been persecuted specifically because they speak out on social issues on behalf of people and are very vocal in their areas? People are going missing and disappearing. That is wrong.

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[Mr Whittingdale]

I agree. The role of all the Churches in Ukraine is very important. The Ukrainian Orthodox Church plays a leading role. I was due to meet the Chief Rabbi of Kiev the other day, since there is a Jewish community there that is also important. Clearly the Churches have a role and can assist in the humanitarian effort in east Ukraine—I very much agree.

I want to finish by saying to the Minister that Ukraine is worth supporting, first because it is a country of huge economic potential. It has a population of 45 million, with 99.7% literacy, and it has the biggest reserves of black soil in the world. If that could be exploited, it could feed most of Europe. We should support Ukraine because it is our frontline against Russian aggression. We are facing an expansionist, resurgent Russia that is using military, economic, information and cyber attacks in an attempt to steer Ukraine away from the pro-western path of development. If Russia succeeds in Ukraine, we should be in no doubt that its ambitions will not stop there. It is very much in our interests to give Ukraine our support.

[Several hon. Members rose—]

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[Mr Whittingdale]

I thank all Members who have taken part in this debate. The fact we are squeezed short of time at the end is an indication of the strength of feeling that exists in all parts of the House. I hope we have sent a strong message today to Ukraine that we will give them support. I hope the Foreign Secretary will take the message to Russia that we expect it to abide by the Minsk agreement and to respect the territorial integrity of Ukraine. We will continue to press it until that happens.

Motion lapsed (Standing Order No. 10(6)).